Monday morning 'Kudos & Wet Willies'

by Ed Valentine on Sep 17, 2007 12:11 AM EDT in Kudos & Wet Willies Comment 30 comments

Well, let's review Sunday's debacle -- a 35-13 loss to the Green Bay Packers in our own unique way, 'Kudos & Wet Willies' style.

Kudos to ...

As with last week, when the 0-2 Giants lost to the Cowboys, the only 'Kudos' worth doling out are to offensive players.

• Eli Manning: For a guy who was supposed to miss a month (yes, that's another shot at ESPN's Chris Mortensen) he played remarkably well. Manning was 16-of-29 for 211 yards with one TD and one INT. If the defense had showed as much heart as Eli did, the outcome could have been much different.

• The Offensive Line: Maybe it was because Eli was playing hurt, but this unit played extremely well. The Packers have a good front four, yet no one laid a hand on Manning until the game was out of hand late.

• Derrick Ward: Brandon who? Ward is on his way to Wally Pipp-ing Brandon Jacobs. Subbing for the injured Jacobs, Ward had another excellent week. He ran 15 times for 90 yards and caught four passes for another 35. Even when Jacobs returns Ward is showing he deserves to play.

Wet Willies to ...

It would be appropriate to give one giant 'Wet Willie' to the entire defense. Lord knows, it would be a deserved 'honor.' Yet, that is too easy. Let's break this down and spread the glory a little more directly.

• Steve Spagnuolo: The new defensive coordinator was supposed to cure the defensive ills that plagued the Giants the past couple of seasons under the deposed Tim Lewis. To put it mildly, so far that is not happening.

Spagnuolo's defenders might be trying to play aggressively, but it's hard to tell. None of them seem to have any idea where they are supposed to be, and no one seems able to make a play.

'Spags' had better find a way to fix this mess, or this season will quickly become a disaster.

• The Entire Defense: Cancel what I said about not giving the entire defense a 'Wet Willie.' The reality is, there is no way to single out specific players or a specific group. Right now, the whole unit stinks!

The Giants' pass rush, if you can call it that, doesn't seem to be able to get within the same area code as the opposing quarterback.

When it comes to linebackers, other than middle linebacker Antonio Pierce the Giants might just as well line up a pair of cardboard cutouts on the outside. So far that's about how helpful Mathias Kiwanuka, Kawika Mitchell and Reggie Torbor have been.

As for the secondary, we know it is good at one thing -- chasing wide open receivers from behind. Through the first two weeks of the season that is pretty much all we have seen them do -- unless, of course, you want to try and count all tackles they have also missed.

• Amani Toomer: After 12 seasons in the league you would think Toomer would know how to keep his emotions in check. Yet, there he was in the second quarter with the Giants inside the Packers 10-yard line taking an absolutely stupid unsportsmanlike conduct penalty and killing the Giants' shot at a touchdown.

• Jeremy Shockey: The Giants tight end makes this list for the same reason as Toomer. The dumb-ass penalty he took for spiking the ball after a reception cost the Giants a first down inside Green Bay's 20 was bad enough. Telling reporters after the game "that's the way I play" made it even worse. Yeah, great, play in a way that costs your team points. Then drop a ball inside the 5 when you could have atoned for it. It won't be long now before he is whining about not getting enough passes thrown his way. I can't wait!

• Ahmad Bradshaw: Umm, maybe John Madden was right about Bradshaw after all. After watching Bradshaw fumble a kickoff return last week Madden said the Giants had better find somebody else to do that job. He fumbled another one Sunday, and as much as I like the rookie from Marshall I am starting to think Madden is right. You can't keep putting the ball on the ground.

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The most disappointing

aspect of the game today, was the truth of the comment of the sideline reporter who noted the lack of spirit on the sideline. Those guys looked like they had no fight in them. It's much too early to give up, but the outlook is sure gloomy. Maybe TC should pull a Fassel, guarantee a play off appearance and have the team rally around the coach? Nah, that would never happen.

by george cronin on Sep 17, 2007 6:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Rally around Coughlin?

HA!

You weren't serious, right?

by Josh on Sep 17, 2007 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was ugly

We are at a very low point on defense. My only hope is that they will get better as they figure out the new system. I have to hope that or I might as well not watch again for the rest of the season.

As for the dumb penalties, I'll give Toomer the benefit of the doubt because that is the 1st time I've ever seen him do that. But when is Shockey going to grow up? Jesus man, is he really that dumb?

If I'm going to break them, I'm going to break them both. - LT

by potroast on Sep 17, 2007 8:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

good point about antonio pierce

he is the only one on that defense that is playing with any balls whatsoever.

by DieEaglesDie on Sep 17, 2007 9:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

defense

All we heard was press coverage, more agressive, more comfortable in describing this new defense. They look terrible. I think Coughlin should consider some lineup changes. Pierce is the most reliable player on the defense and he looks out of position and out of sorts. Total disaster right now. I can't tell you how dissapointed I am as a fan.

www.billkohut.com

by bk0831 on Sep 17, 2007 9:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Coughlin and staff

The worst thing about all this is even if the team shows marked improvement later, and goes 6-10, the staff is long gone. And with a new regime comes more uncertainty for everyone. If we knew they were going to be this bad (and it's still only two games), it would have been wise to bring in a new staff and at least get a new culture going. Did anyone see this coming?? Damn this team should be better. Again, we've only played two games but.......

www.billkohut.com

by bk0831 on Sep 17, 2007 9:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Our Defense Stinks

so bad that flies wouldn't touch them! Most of you out there have gone on record as saying that we should give Kiwanuka a chance to settle in at linebacker. At this point there is no sense ruining a young player for an experiment that pretty obviously is not going to work. Move Mathias back to DE now. Strahan will be gone soon enough and we'll still be fortunate to have 3 good ends. Our linebacking corps needs to be replaced. They seem incapable of pass rushing or covering tight ends. Ditto for the secondary.I'll admit Ross is starting to look like a player and look forward to him starting when he's ready.Hate to finally admit it but in my eyes,Webster is officially a BUST. It's not just the new scheme, the quality of our defense as a whole is just downright revolting(as I will be if they don't improve quickly).
P.S. maybe the team could bring in someone to teach tackling to the D, it would be a good first remedial step.

by big blue wrecking crew on Sep 17, 2007 9:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Defense (or lack thereof)

I've been a Giants fan for decades, and I tell you this has to be one of the lowest points.

To sum it up in quick fashion, our defense has more holes in it than my 20 - year - old cast net.

What I heard described about the new defensive scheme in the early goings versus what I have seen the past two games - well, let's just say there's a slight discrepancy between the two.

Sadly, I fear that this can't be fixed. When opposing teams can line up, throw at will, and successfully run on you - you're toast.

I guess the best we can do is scrape off the burnt part and try again next week.

Man, we are in for a long season.

by GAgiantfan on Sep 17, 2007 9:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Potroast, bilohut, wrecking crew, GA

Yes, Shockey is that dumb.
No, I never saw it coming. I thought for sure we'd make the playoffs. Right now, that seems delusional.
As for the linebackers, I believe that Mitchell's playing in a new position and had the repuation of not being able to cover. Two out of three at new spots could be disastrous. Calls for patience, but for how long?
Yes, indeed, a long season. Maybe the commentator who said TC would be gone by Dec. had it right. If so, Reese might look for opportunites to unload some of the team's more talented problem children for high future draft picks.

by george cronin on Sep 17, 2007 10:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreeing with everybody

At this point, I have to agree with you guys. 1. Didn't see this coming. 2. Kiwi needs to go back to DE. Let linebackers play linebacker. 3. Shockey is an idiot. 4. If it doesn't get better quickly, Coughlin is gone.

by Ed Valentine on Sep 17, 2007 10:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Shockey is that guy..

that would have beat me up in high school because I wore glasses. He is that dumb. If he wasn't good at football, he would probably be a cop in Medford, NJ.

by scudagc on Sep 17, 2007 10:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That's funny

Good stuff. I'm sure Shockey would have loved the old dorkey-looking athletic frames I wore when I played high school basketball.

by Ed Valentine on Sep 17, 2007 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

in defense of Shockey

.......he bangs the ball with his hand and gets penalized, while a NE wideout literally spikes the ball at the 30 yard line after a nice catch and run and there is no call. That call definitely hurt us (but shouldn't have been called). The weird thing about play: if GB isn't off sides, we still get a first down, because the ball would have simply be moved back 5 yds. I think the action of spiking should be considered after the play and not a continuation of the play. Furthermore, why are WR's allowed to throw a fast ball into the endzone wall after a TD and not be penalized (while putting the ball under your jersey is).......tell me what is worse??

www.billkohut.com

by bk0831 on Sep 17, 2007 11:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Intersesting observation

about Green Bays penalty actually hurting us more than if they hadn't committed it. The rules committee really should take note of this. Yeah ,Shockey technically didnt even spike the ball. I was irate at the time and I'm even more so now.

by big blue wrecking crew on Sep 17, 2007 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stupid rule

But, it is a rule and Shockey needs to grow up. I agree, though, that since it was after the play it's stupid for those two penalties to offset.

by Ed Valentine on Sep 17, 2007 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I agree that the call was bogus, but I still think Shockey is an idiot because of his comments after. Hey Shockey, you mean you can't change the way you play to help your team win? Really? What the hell do they pay you for?

If I'm going to break them, I'm going to break them both. - LT

by potroast on Sep 17, 2007 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think the penalty

should have been called, but with his flamboyant persona, Shockey has made himself a target for the refs. They look for any sign of an infraction, and if they find it sock it to him, sometimes unfairly. Like TC, I don't think he can change much.

by george cronin on Sep 17, 2007 11:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Favre had a spike too

I don't mean to keep harping on this, but at the end of the half, Green Bay was running its two minute drill and Favre was tackled and spiked the ball (in digust). The ref actually had to run after the ball and then hustle to get it spotted. Why no foul? Every year it gets worse.....I hear myself saying "The refs ruin the game for the players and more importantly the fans". It's frustrating enough when you team is bad, but bad calls make it almost unwatchable. Other plays: Burris pushed 15 yards down the field (where he hurt is ankle) and no call. Also GB WR tripping on the turf causing a pass interference call and auto first down. Okay, I'll stop whining now!!!!!!!!!! I know it goes on in every stadium.

www.billkohut.com

by bk0831 on Sep 17, 2007 12:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Spagnuolo

I said this when the Giants signed him. If they were bringing him on to play that attacking Eagles system it was maybe the worst possible choice they could have made.

The Eagles system starts with the secondary. They've drafted early and often in the secondary and spent big money back there. In 2004 they had 3 of the 4 starters make the pro bowl. Last year they had 2 of the 4. They've had nickel corners like Al Harris and Rod Hood go elsewhere to become starters and pro bowlers. Jim Johnson routinely leaves those guys out an island with his blitz packages. Without that kind of secondary you simply can not run the system Jim Johnson runs. Just look at what the Eagles have done personnel wise. They haven't spent big money on linebackers, they have spent money on defensive ends but frankly their best ends who get the most playing time are basically a 5th round pick in Trent Cole and a undrafted free agent in Juqua Thomas. The last few years they've drafted high on the defensive line, but that's only because they've had their secondary set. The Giants are built the opposite way.

So on one hand you can clearly blame Spagnuolo. He's trying to run a system that he knows he doesn't have the personnel to run. That said, how much can you blame him if they hired him to run a certain system and didn't give him the guys he needs to run it?

Bleeding Green Nation Philadelphia Eagles Blog

by JasonB on Sep 17, 2007 1:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Spags

They did take a corner with their No. 1 pick, but you might be right. They are still very weak back there. Thing is, this defense stunk playing soft. Now it stinks playing aggressive. How many other ways are there to play?

by Ed Valentine on Sep 17, 2007 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

a question

Who is Kawika Mitchell and what on earth has he done to deserve a spot starting on an NFL team? The "cardboard cutout" line above is an especially apt description of Mitchell.

Come back Tiki!!!

by Greenpoint Ian on Sep 17, 2007 1:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Mitchell

The thing you have to remember is that Mathias Kiwanuka isn't the only linebacker on the Giants playing out of position. Mitchell was a decent starting middle linebacker in Kansas City. He has never played outside before, and it shows. He has no clue in pass coverage.

by Ed Valentine on Sep 17, 2007 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Game

I was at the game, and it wasn't too exciting. The first half was idle, but the second half was terrible. I just sat in my seat in disbelief. Spag, well I hope he can turn this around before it gets ugly fast. Seems like they are not conditioned enough. They just fell apart in the late second half. We need a new conditioning coach.

by All Day on Sep 17, 2007 2:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Spags

I agree that the Eagles have a good secondary, but at the same time I don't know of anyone who left their team to become Pro Bowlers. In fact, most of the guys who left did nothing.

Anyone watching the first two games knows they aren't anywhere near resembling the Eagles' style. And I mean right before the ball is snapped. The Eagles will show multiple blitzers, almost in an overload situation. I haven't seen that at all here. In fact, we look exactly like last year's defense. Totally vanilla. It's not that we aren't playing it well, I simply believe we aren't playing it at all. We are reading and reacting still, rather than attacking, plain and simple.

www.billkohut.com

by bk0831 on Sep 17, 2007 2:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Al Harris

Was a nickel corner for the Eagles that was traded to the Packers and has been a pro bowl alternate in 2004, 2005, and 2006. Rod Hood left in free agency and is now a starter for Arizona. Point is that the Eagles have always built their D starting with the secondary. They even regard their nickel corner as more or less a starter.

Point is... If you are going to play their system, then you need build your personnel like they did. Like EtVal said, with drafting a corner in the first round this year, maybe they are just starting to do that.

Bleeding Green Nation Philadelphia Eagles Blog

by JasonB on Sep 17, 2007 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

More on this

I think that w/the addition of Aaron Ross the Giants actually thought they had the corners to play that type of defense. Sam Madison made his name as a press corner in Miami. Corey Webster was a press corner in college who struggled in a zone scheme w/Tim Lewis. We are finding out that Webster is just not an NFL quality corner, period. And Ross, of course, is highly regarded. Unfortunately, it isn't working out right now.

by Ed Valentine on Sep 17, 2007 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Madison

Yeah, but how long ago was it that he was actually good?

by Josh on Sep 18, 2007 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shockey is a fraud

He should be more like Jason Witten. A professional who practices hard and keeps his mouth shut. Oh, and he can catch the ball. Sucks to be a Giant fan.

by romosexual on Sep 18, 2007 12:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Fraud

You do have to love Shockey's ability. But, he isn't as good as he thinks he is and both his amazing immaturity and tendency to drop catchable balls hurt the Giants way too often.

by Ed Valentine on Sep 18, 2007 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Al Harris

...was traded because the Eagles had enough of his penchant for committing dumb penalities. He came into his own after the trade. Hood signed and starts for AZ, but was riding the bench for the second half of the season in Philly.

The Eagles had, and continue to have, a really good starting secondary. But as we have seen last year and Monday nite, as soon as one CB goes down, whoever they bring immediately gets picked on (oh, and not having a pass rush hurts too). When the Eagles don't get a rush, like anyone else, they are attacked by the passing game. They go hand-in-hand.

www.billkohut.com

by bk0831 on Sep 18, 2007 2:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs