'Kudos & Wet Willies,' Cowboys disaster edition

by Ed Valentine on Nov 12, 2007 6:24 AM EST in Kudos & Wet Willies Comment 24 comments

Eli Manning has to shoulder a lot of the blame for the Giants' loss to Dallas on Sunday. (AP Photo)

Unfortunately, it was more of the same from the New York Giants Sunday. The Giants showed again that they just aren't good enough to compete with the big boys, dropping a 31-20 decision at home to the 8-1 Dallas Cowboys.

Let's review, 'Kudos & Wet Willies' style.

Kudos to ...

• Jeremy Shockey. Yes, No. 80 is still one helluva weapon when when the Giants choose to use him. He abused Dallas safety Roy Williams Sunday, finishing with a career-high 12 catches for 129 yards and a touchdown.

• Gibril Wilson. Led the Giants defense with 10 tackles and an interception. Terrell Owens' 50-yard touchdown catch looked like a mistaken ready by rookie Michael Johnson, not Wilson.

• Brandon Jacobs. The beastly 265-pound running back didn't have his way with the Cowboys. He did, however, run hard and was effective, picking up 95 yards on 23 carries. His numbers would have been better if the Giants hadn't been behind late.

• Big Blue View Nation. More than 100 comments during and immediately after the game! Way to go, gang! That was easily our best game-day participation since Week 1. Thanks for dropping in.

Wet Willies to ...

• Eli Manning. The Giants needed Eli to step up Sunday, and it didn't happen. His line (23-of-34, 236 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT) looks acceptable. If you watched the game, though, you know that Eli did not measure up in a big spot. Three inexcusable delay of game penalties and two sacks at the end of the first half that were his fault and changed the momentum. The biggest difference Sunday was that the better quarterback, Tony Romo, was playing for Dallas.

• Michael Johnson. I love Johnson, and I think he is going to be a terrific player. The rookie 7th-round pick had a terrible day, though. He messed up on the long Owens' touchdown, vacating the middle, had a late-hit penalty and missed a tackle on Marion Barber that could have given the Giants the ball back when they still had a chance.

• Sam Madison. The Giants left Madison one-on-one with TO most of the game, and TO won the battle with 6 catches for 125 yards and two touchdowns.

More post-game thoughts

Clearly, the better team won the football game. The Giants have some weapons, do lots of things well and are improving, but it's apparent the Cowboys are -- along with New England and Indianapolis -- are among the three elite teams in the league.

That said, the two holding penalties the Giants took in the second half were devastating. One negated an 83-yard kickoff return by Ahmad Bradshaw, the other a touchdown by Brandon Jacobs. The shame of both plays was that neither penalty actually helped the runners since they occurred away from the play.

The Giants did catch a couple of breaks Sunday with Arizona defeating Detroit and Philadelphia sneaking past Washington. The Giants and Detroit Lions are both 6-3, with Washington right behind at 5-4.

To say the least, next Sunday's game in Detroit is huge. The Giants need to win, or they start to face a potential free-fall like the one they suffered last season.

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More wet willies

I would add Ross, since he got burned repeatively by Crayton and missed some big tackles. Maybe he's a rook, but I don't think Crayton is an all-pro either. The Giants secondary looked like their big weakness once again.

If I'm going to break them, I'm going to break them both. - LT

by potroast on Nov 12, 2007 7:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Potroast is right about

Ross. Does anyone have any suggestions about what the Giants can do about Eli. He seized up during yesterday's game. How do you fix that? Time to give him a rest, or do they have no choice but to stick with him? Do something in between, as when the Giants had Heinrich play the first half while conerly watched, decided with coaches how to attack when he took over in second half? I tend toward gritting teeth and sticking with him till season ends, but wonder what everybody thinks.

by george cronin on Nov 12, 2007 8:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

gritting teeth is a good explanation

and that's what i've been doing with eli his whole career. it's obvious that the only way eli can be effective is if he is protected. that wasn't the case yesterday, and that's usually not the case whenever the giants play better teams (i.e. dallas).

considering how dire the backup situation is (cough jared lorenzen), there is no way that eli could ever be benched - not even for a half. the giants have to stick with him through this season.

as these big-game losses continue to mount, i think its become apparent that eli will never be elite or even great. however in the NFL, teams can win just with slightly above-average QB play, just not win championships. i dont know if he should be replaced because im not sure what the other options are. the fact that the giants invested so much in eli makes it hard to cut the cord.

if it's not evident by my post, i think today is the worst i have felt since the '02 playoff loss to the niners. i need some prozac to get me to this big lions game on sunday.

by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Nov 12, 2007 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is

precisely how I feel. I had hope for Eli until this game, but now I'm finally conceding that Eli will always make mistakes in big spots. You can be a good team with him, but its impossible to win champioships when we is making mental errors in key situations. Even good teams can't overcome that.

If I'm going to break them, I'm going to break them both. - LT

by potroast on Nov 12, 2007 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No choice

He is the franchise QB, like it or not. Anthony Wright and Jared Lorenzen can't help this team. Eli is what he is, I think. A good QB, not a great one.

by Ed Valentine on Nov 12, 2007 9:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Simms comparison

Maybe what the Giants need to do is find a viable #2 QB (i.e., not Jared Lorenzen) and make Manning compete for his job, or possibly even bench him. One of the first decisions Bill Parcells made when he became head coach was to replace Phil Simms with Scott Brunner as the starting QB. Simms initially requested a trade and wanted out of NY, but he eventually accepted it, worked harder the next season, got his job back, and had the best season of his career at that point. 2 years later, he was the Super Bowl MVP. Maybe that's what the Giants need to do to Manning...let him know that he hasn't been crowned QB, that it is a job he can lose.

by cjmulrain on Nov 12, 2007 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My thoughts

I said all last week the Giants were going to have to play an almost perfect game to win, and they didn't even come close. They just aren't good enough to overcome numerous mistakes and still win the game. The delay of games are inexcusable. The poor tackling and bad coverage was inexcusable. All the talk last week that things were going to be different was just that, all talk.

Tynes not being on the field near the end of the half? What's that all about?

If the Giants don't beat Detroit on Sunday, which is no easy game, watch out. The "Happy Peppy and Bursting With Love" attitude the Giants have had all year could quickly vanish.

One last thought for now:

I have always been pretty loyal to the starting QB of the Giants, whether it was Kanell, Graham, Collins, etc. I've just always thought that the starter is the starter, and we should support him. I've never been one of these fans who is always screaming for the backup, because the backup is the backup for a reason.

That being said, I'm really starting to sour on Eli. After a few flashes of brilliance the last few years, I really thought this would be the year he turned it on. There are no excuses for him this year. His receivers are relatively healthy, the offensive line (except for yesterday) has kept him off his rump, and they brought in Chris Palmer to work with him. There is just no excuse for his play anymore. At what point does he stop being "a young QB who is still learning", and start being "a very average QB who is what he is"?

I'm not saying Lorenzen is the answer, because he isn't. I just think the Giants need to start thinking about whether or not Eli is ever going to be the QB they thought he would be when Ernie drafted him

by Jim Schmiedeberg on Nov 12, 2007 8:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Talk

Teams who have to talk are teams that aren't good enough. The Giants are not good enough to defeat the Cowboys. Period. I wish it wasn't true, but it is.

by Ed Valentine on Nov 12, 2007 9:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I tend to agree

that the Giants have no choice but to stick with Eli, but I'm not as adamant as some. I know Wright has a track record that demostrates he can't fill the bill, but Lorenzen has never had a chance to show what he's got. I know most of you guys ridicule him, but he has stuck for three years now. Coaches or mgmt must see something. I'd like to know what. If the worst case scenario starts to play out (i.e., another collapse) maybe he should be given a shot at the job.
Yeah, I've always been loyal to the Giants' QBs, but Eli is a special case, given what it cost to get him and all the hype, etc. Meanwhile, onward and upward to Detroit where Eli can at least prove once more he's reliably inconsistent by showing flasshes of brilliance while leading his team to a win.
By the way, Peyton looked pretty bad in the mud on Sunday. Maybe Brady is the best QB around. (He never seems to get a lot of pressure, though.)
I have to admit, Romo looked like everything said about him. He made a few plays that reminded me of Tark at his best w/o the kind of desperation mistakes Tark was prone to make with a mediocre Giants team (and which he didn't make when he returned to the Vikes.)

by george cronin on Nov 12, 2007 10:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Eli

I think the Giants have to stick with him for this year, especially since this team is good enough to make the playoffs and that would cause way too much turmoil for this team that tends to blow up when there is too much turmoil. But I'm starting to think that they have to do something for the future. Maybe its as simple as cjmulrain is saying, acquire another QB to compete. Do you draft one and hope he pushes Eli in a year or two or do you acquire a veteran that can push him right away? I guess it depends if you think the Giants need to win now, which I think the team is going in the right direction and can afford to develop another starter.

If I'm going to break them, I'm going to break them both. - LT

by potroast on Nov 12, 2007 11:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

what Giants fans have to understand about Eli

is that even though he was the #1 pick in the 2004 draft, he's in reality a mid to late rd talent.

If his name wasn't Manning, he wouldn't have been the 1st pick in the draft, he was overrated because of his bloodline. He'll never come close to being a great qb like his brother, so Giants fans shouldn't expect him to be a savior.

He's a good qb, just not great or special like Romo. Good enough though, you guys shouldn't be that hard on him.

by Terry on Nov 12, 2007 11:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Eli

Giants fans will always be hard on Eli. He was a first pick in the draft, and the Giants traded a fortune, including a pick that turned into Shawne Merriman. Ernie Accorsi could have sat at No. 4, taken Ben Roethlisberger and the Giants would be a better team today. If Eli never wins a Super Bowl, that trade was a waste.

by Ed Valentine on Nov 12, 2007 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you're correct, you should have taken

Roethlisberger and it was a bad trade, but it happened, however, Giants fans shouldn't have great expectations for Eli because he was the first pick.

He's your QB and he is what he is, a decent, sometimes good qb, but someone who can carry a team on his shoulders.

So I guess the guy you should really be blaming is Ernie Accorsi.

by Terry on Nov 12, 2007 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

meant someone who can't, not can

by Terry on Nov 12, 2007 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

It's water under the bridge, over the dam or whatever. However, it is a trade that should never have been made. Eli is not what Accorsi thought he was.

by Ed Valentine on Nov 12, 2007 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He's good

But not good enough to win championships because he makes big mistakes in key spots. If he played mistake free in big games, then yes he's good enough. But the team will never be championship caliber if he continues to make those mistakes in big games, like those f'in delay of game penalties.

If I'm going to break them, I'm going to break them both. - LT

by potroast on Nov 12, 2007 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Manning's bloodline had something to do with

him being picked #1, but I think the main reson was Accorsi's obssession with finding another Johhny U. I don't believe Johnny was even drafted.

by george cronin on Nov 12, 2007 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Eli

Doesn't have to be his brother. I don't think most Giant fans expect him to be his brother. Only the media expects him to be his brother. We'd be happy for him just to be Eli, but the problem is, we aren't sure who the real Eli is.

The talent is there, we've seen it. We just don't see it enough. Some of his passes last night were great, he and Shockey were in a zone at times last night that they've never been in together. But then he just makes some boneheaded plays that you have to wonder if he is "smarter than a 5th grader". Like I said before, there are no excuses for him anymore. The Giants have played in some big games since he was drafted, and he has not put this team on his shoulders in a big game as of yet. It just seems like every week we are saying "Eli played well at times, but made a few bad mistakes"

On another note, it was nice to see him in the Citizen commercial yesterday. That only leaves him 147 behind Peyton, LOL

by Jim Schmiedeberg on Nov 12, 2007 11:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

no shame in the loss to the Cowboys...

you're still 6-3 and maybe we'll see you guys on down the line....

Romo = best QB in the division TO = best WR in the division

by Tuna Helper on Nov 12, 2007 1:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

no shame

because the cowboys are clearly the better team. but you can understand our frustration when the giants start hot every year and have a game (at home no less) that can catapult them to the top of the NFC and they fall on their face.

by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Nov 12, 2007 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

game plan

One thing the Giants have done well during Eli's time here is throw the ball down the field. The Giants attempted one long pass.....as the very last play of the game!! A little late, yes? If Plax was taken out of the game by a double team, Toomer and or Moss should have at least had one or two balls thrown to them deep. You take some shots during the game. I realize the protection wasn't ideal, but you can't just completely scrap what you do well. There were just too many "short" plays. The Cowboys weakness is in coverage.

www.billkohut.com

by bk0831 on Nov 12, 2007 4:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

True, but ...

with Burress obviously more and more limited, with Moss showing no signs of being a playmaker and with Steve Smith hurt who exactly is going to get down the field and make a play?

by Ed Valentine on Nov 12, 2007 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

how about...

Toomer and Shockey. Moss can't simply run a fly pattern? I saw Payton Manning several times try to throw to Reggie Wayne double covered (none resulted in picks) on Sunday night. You have to keep the defense honest, and again, their weakness is in coverage.

www.billkohut.com

by bk0831 on Nov 12, 2007 4:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs