Draft Discussion – Which Offensive Players FIT the Giants?
by GiantNomad on Feb 9, 2012 6:33 PM EST
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PrintDisclaimer: This is going to be a long article and while I would love it if you guys read it, my thoughts on who we should draft will be at the end.
We have a pretty solid bead on what the Giants look for out of prospects at the various positions, and what qualities they demand on a round-by-round basis. The question is which prospects fit what the Giants want to DO on the field. Let's start with the offense.
In 2007 and 2008, the Giants featured an absolutely dominant run-blocking offensive line, a couple of excellent run blocking tight ends, an array of running backs with a wide variety of skills and a few good-but-not-great wide receivers with SIZE. Most importantly, we had a quarterback that was still developing as a passer. It made sense that we were a power running team, leveraged our strengths and to an extent, hid our weaknesses.
It's 2012. Our offensive line was piss-poor in the run game, and only slightly better in the passing game (and a lot of that is on Eli Manning). We have (had?) a couple of serviceable tight ends. We have two dominant wide receivers under contract, both of whom can make plays in the deep, intermediate and short parts of the field. Most importantly, our 2-time Superbowl MVP quarterback has become excellent under pressure, and astoundingly accurate. As an economist would say, big plays are our comparative advantage. This isn't the Eagles though; we don't rely on just talent to find the big play. As long as Tom Coughlin is the coach, we'll use the run to draw those safeties in and get our outside threats the single coverage that they just eat up.
What does that mean? What kind of players are we looking for?
RB: The Giants don't want a guy whose presence indicates to the defense what the play is going to be. Any running back we draft better be a solid runner AND an asset in the passing game, both as a receiver and a blocker. Unless the value is there, I don't see us dropping a first-round pick on a RB. You get a first-round running back to be the focal point of your offense and we don't need/want that.
WR: HAS to be able to make that big, field stretching play. I disagree that we need a third down outlet. Cruz and Nicks are excellent on third down. Cruz is everything that SS12 was and so much more.
TE: A lot of people on this website love to say that the Giants shouldn't draft a tight end high because they'd fall into the black hole of the Gilbride offense. I agree and disagree with that statement. Unless the next Rob Gronkowski falls into our laps, tight end will not be a focal point of our offense. We do need tight ends though, and whoever we pick should be able to run block AND receive. Basically, we're looking for a guy that is versatile, but is going to be a red zone threat for us. What does that mean? Size, reliable hands and short area quickness are more important than straight line speed.
OL: We need to run the ball well, but these guys can't be one dimensional. We need dominant run blockers with the ability to pass block. The Giants have had success with guys who have been less than dominant pass blockers and they can continue to do so going forward.
So who are some guys that I like (2 players per position)?
RB: Chris Polk (2nd Round); Isaiah Pead (3nd Round)
WR: Mohammed Sanu (2nd Round); A.J. Jenkins (3rd-5th Round)
TE: Dwayne Allen (1st Round); Coby Fleener (2nd Round)
OL: Kelechi Osemele (1st round) Cordy Glenn (1st Round)
Final Note: This is my ideal draft. Not what will happen, but what I WANT to happen.
1. Kelechi Osemele, OG/OT, Iowa State
2. Coby Fleener, TE, Stanford University
3. Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame
4. (via Trade) A.J. Jenkins, WR, Illinois
4. Nigel Bradham, LB, Florida State
5. (Traded)
6. (Traded)
7. Might need to be traded to get that 4, but BPA otherwise.
FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.
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I don't think we really need a WR
but again, I don’t anything about NFL draft so its best I just listen
we definitely need offensive lineman tho
Nets Mets Giants All day Every day.
Beware the Lopez
NY Giants Tribute
In the modern passing game you need multiple targets
- WR is very important. And Manny will be gone.
My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.
2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA
"need" is the N word
its a 4 letter word, its the devil. Its bad for you don’t worry bout it. If the rest of the NFL is dumb enough to let Alshon Jeffrey fall to you, you draft him. Worry about how to play him later.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Yeah I agree, need is, at best, a secondary consideration.
Value and fit are the key. Few of the most successful teams draft primarily for need.
You mean just pick the best players available?
Nets Mets Giants All day Every day.
Beware the Lopez
NY Giants Tribute
Well you have to chose between the n word and bpa. Bonus would be a combo of both : BPAN
This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.
Neither Jacobs, Bradshaw or Ware are real assets in the passing game.
So while I agree it’s nice to have a complete back, it’s not a priority at all in the draft. If Lamar or Wilson are in the first then I’d like them.
I really could care less about WR since it’ll be the 3rd WR who will get max 5 catches a game. On our streak it’s either Nicks or Cruz carrying for a game. Only in the super bowl did all three do something significant. Plus we have JJ12 and Barden.
Kevin Boss was a great blocker and his presence was sorely missed. There’s not a lot of god blockers in this draft. And our TE’s are so pathetically slow that they aren’t used in Gilbride’s scheme. Ballard did that for 6 weeks and cooled the eff off and we used him quite a lot.
I like Osemele but not in the first. He’s like Brewer but polished enough that he can start at RT. However it’s uncertain if he can play LT so he’s a risky prospect. High risk high reward. And unlike JPP. Osemele has some physical concerns like mobility. JPP is the perfect specimen, just very raw.
I like Glenn though.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
I think that depends on how you define an asset in the passing game.
Bradshaw isn’t going to flex out to the slot anytime soon, but he’s a great screen option. Beyond that, Bradshaw has consistently been rated as one of the best pass blocking running backs in the NFL. Jacobs is also a pretty damn good blocker. Miller and Wilson can’t block, and you don’t play running back for the Giants if you can’t be trusted to block.
As for WRs, you need to keep restocking. Alright we have Nicks, Cruz, JJ12, and Barden. Nobody else stands out to me. Hixon is coming off of multiple knee injuries, Thomas doesn’t offer much there etc. What if just one of those guys go down?
Everybody is obsessed with how “fast” a tight end is. It’s more important how quick they are. Boss never became a huge asset in the passing game because he couldn’t get in and out of his breaks quickly. We have deep threats, we don’t need a tight end to be one.
Osemele would be drafted as a RT or a Guard. We have a left tackle in Will Beatty. In my opinion Glenn is a less athletic version of Osemele.
we should make a play for TO
He would be cheap, he would be serviceable, all he is needed is as a 3rd wheel. Plus offcourse, the obligatory conversation that he will be playing for a Tom Coughlin team….so any histrionix, and out the door he goes. If we dont grab him, Bellicheck will!
In the same vein, we should go after a much-chastised Shockey (or even Visanthe).
Remind them all who’s boss – ELI, but they both have good serviceable years left in them, will be ultra cheap & stopgap. This will allow the Giants to spend mucho bucks on RBs, LBs etc
disagree
T.O. has never been happy being a second option, let alone third wheel.
I think the Giants drafted Jernigan to replace Steve Smith and/or Manningham if they left (remember draft before FA last year) so I think he gets a chance next year
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me." Dudley Field Malone
Editor at nflmocks.com, contributor a newyork.sbnation.com
by Jesse Bartolis on Feb 9, 2012 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
That just makes no sense to me.
Why do we need a stopgap? The Giants succeeded on the strength of two second year players this year. We do a good job developing talent. We’re not the Washington Redskins.
Beyond that, why bring in two potential locker room cancers/dissidents to a team that succeeded because of the strength of their locker room/faith in their coach?
It just doesn’t make sense. The Giants aren’t a team that needs one or two more players to win the big one, they already did. They just need to keep restocking and improving.
TO will never be signed
DIVA
OLD
SLOWER
DISTRACTION
The talent won’t matter, he just doesn’t fit.
Eli is our King!
Why would we bring in a lockroom cancer
NO thank’s to T.O. I’d rather bring back Plax or Steve Smith.
Respect all fear none.
by Late for Dinner on Feb 10, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
Please stop!
Ricky Williams retired....Cue up Bob Marley,
"Excuse me while I light my spliff"...
by Great Gatsby on Feb 10, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
lol
no…. lol
New York Giants 2011 Super Bowl Champions = FACT
The NFL will now FEAR THE LOWERCASE ny
by The Always Well Dressed... on Feb 10, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Lol TO
SMH…
Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 6...
I'm down wit JPP
Yea you know me
Win Ugly.
-Eli Manning for MVP
Allen has my vote
Last year I wanted Rudolph, this year I want Allen. Notice a pattern.
You down wit JPP?
I got 99 problems but a Vick ain't one!
Dd you still want Rudolph when Mookie was there
‘twas a no brainier to me, and from what I’ve seen, the young fella has a great chance to be our #1 CB pretty soon.
Eli is our King!
I agree..
For all the ish he got after the first GB game, Prince played in the GB playoff game and in the SB and you only heard his name called once. The only pass I can remember being completed against him in the playoffs was the stop route to Gronk in the SB and Prince was right there and put a good hit on Gronk. EVERY year I hope for the Giants to get a shutdown corner! It seems we might have gotten him last year!
I wanted
Mookie Wilson, who didn’t back in the day, that’s right….Buckner, LOL!
Ricky Williams retired....Cue up Bob Marley,
"Excuse me while I light my spliff"...
by Great Gatsby on Feb 10, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
I think once we all keep seeing Mook drop we kinda saw the writing on the wall
I was so giddy with excitement that he fell all the way to 19. I knew he was going to be the pick
Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 6...
I'm down wit JPP
Yea you know me
Win Ugly.
-Eli Manning for MVP
Needs to step up
all together now…and make some big plays, LOL!
Ricky Williams retired....Cue up Bob Marley,
"Excuse me while I light my spliff"...
by Great Gatsby on Feb 11, 2012 8:29 AM EST up reply actions
My choice as a first rounder
is a LB Zach Brown. Fastest at his position in a long time. Purely BPA late in round one. Yes Fleener if he is there in round two. RB David Wilson in three. CB Keith Tandy in four.
Road grader OL Josh Ogelby in five replacing Karem. .Marquiz Maze K/PR/WR. six.
he's an El Beezus and a 4-3 one at that
there’s a good chance he’s there at #33 too.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Brown
will most likely rise after the combine. He had a good year number wise. Have to believe some GM is going to go crazy if he runs a sub 4.4/low 4.4 at 230lbs. It’s the draft. People will fall in love with measurables.
What about him isn’t particularly attractive? Maturity issues?
by Ghamilton05 on Feb 10, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
I think Ror means
that unless Brown just blows everybody out of the water (AKA, can do everything you need a 4-3 OLB to do AND cover like a safety) the Giants aren’t going to pick a linebacker in the first round.
JR seems to feel, for better or worse, that a dominant D-Line, and a strong secondary should be built through high draft picks; linebackers can be found later and in free agency.
I like Brown as a better version of Bruce Carter, the Giants would have to believe that he would be better than Boley, 1-2 years down the road and significantly than J-Will will ever be.
Nomad
I think you should revisit this after we get thru free agency. Everyone (including me) has predicted the FA losses, but we haven’t figured in FA signings, contract restructuring and the like. You perceive a need at WR. What if MM can’t get better $ because of the other 12 good WRs in FA?
Nice first cut
Eli is our King!
I don't necessarily perceive a NEED at WR
WR is a position you just keep restocking. I like A.J. Jenkins’ skill set as sort of a hybrid between Mario and Brandon Lloyd.
It’s a good point though, and I will definitely keep updating as the offseason wears on.
Like your Polk pick
I watched him cut up my Huskers 3 times in 2 years. He is a bruising back with a hint of speed. If we lose BJ, I think Polk would be serviceable, but I also fear Polk may be a RB whose talents might not translate to the NFL.
Eli targeted Ballard a lot this year and he performed well, especially for an undrafted slow TE. Imagine if Eli was throwing to a more athletic TE (think a bigger version of Beckum).
Husker/Giants/Mets fan living behind enemy lines.
When we drafted Dayne
I read a great article on backs that flop. College power backs that gain tons of yardage after first contact often flop in the NFL. Why? The size of the defenders, they get so much bigger you ant run thru them unless your huge. So Bettis, BJ can succeed, Dayne had no real chance.
Guys like AB that gain more yardage before first contact translate better. Guys with speed like Scott, cause when they get a hole they can exploit it more. The rules weren’t iron clad, but pretty predictive.
S if you’ve seen him gain a lot of yards bulling thru the LOS, it’s likely that when he hits Mike Patterson or Vin Wilfork he won’t be able to do anything.
Eli is our King!
Agree and disagree with you
disagree on Polk. I think his talents will be better translated in the NFL. He has problems in Pass Protection but most college RBs usually do upon entering the NFL. His style of running makes him an attractive NFL prospect (downfield, punishing, fast), as compared to someone like Knowshon Moreno (kind of a tweener)
completely agree about the TE. Imagine if we were able to add someone like Dwayne Allen, an athlete with size and speed. Ballard had a great year but let’s be honest he’s near the bottom of the league in terms of talent. Allen is listed at 6’4", will be interesting to see if that measurement holds up at the combine…
Polk is NOT a big bruising back with a hint of speed.
He’s a complete RB that catches, blocks, and runs really well with power and speed.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Well..
He was in the 3 games I watched vs. the Huskers. Showcased more bruising tendencies than balanced attack. Small sample size, but I do not follow all college teams closely. He is someone I have actually seen. He scared me during those games, that is why I mention him as a good pick. But, I have been burned before with RBs that I thought would do well in the NFL.
Husker/Giants/Mets fan living behind enemy lines.
Yup. Exactly why I picked him
I disagree with Ghamilton that he has problems in pass-pro. I’ve read he’s pretty good at it. What I especially like is he’s not a cut blocker, those guys don’t usually translate well as linebackers have better anticipation in the NFL.
I do not think
we need to waste a high pick for a TE.
Primary – Need to block
Secondary – Catch
Your top pick guys are going to have those roles reversed.
My Wife is a Patriot's fan...
"Giants rely on fumbles and stripping the ball. If the pats secure the ball, then the pats win, but if they fumble or let the ball get striped than the giants win. every game the giants play they always benefit from the other teams bonehead mistakes (fumbled or striped) not from thier skills. The giants are a dirty team, I can’t think of any othe team as dirty as the giants. They try to strip the ball as hard as they can because they know they can’t win a fair game." by EaglesNeedD on Jan 23, 2012 2:01 AM EST
Tricky
The primary function of our TEs is blocking b/c they are not that much of a threat down the field. It’s a situation in which we adapted our offense. Eli threw a decent amount to Ballard. Imagine if we had a legitimate threat at the position…I think Dwayne Allen is the only TE that fits the bill. Not sold on Fleener. He looks wiry, possibly doesnt have enough strength. As you mentioned, we need someone who can block as well as catch
by Ghamilton05 on Feb 10, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
I like the Bradham pick.
I watched him play his last three years at Florida State. His senior season was only his second year playing with a real defensive scheme, (the end of the Bowden years were not good) which he struggled with at times but it’s hard to argue with a guy that led the team in tackles all three years he started. The guy was by far the hardest hitter on the team.
When Tim Tebow met Bjoren Werner he was so in awe of his presence that he spontaneously knelt upon one knee and placed his head upon his hand, and Tebowing was born.
I LOVE Bradham as the eventual replacement for Kiwi
I’m convinced that a year from now some 3-4 team needing a pass rusher will blow us out of the water with an awesome offer for Kiwi. Us using him at linebacker and him succeeding almost guarantees that.
OL, OL, TE, and More OL
I honestly believe that the Giants are heading into the off-season knowing that on opening day they need to replace two of the five starting offensive linemen (McKenzie and Diehl) and two of the three Tight Ends.
Early talk has the Giants believing that they have a good TE prospect on the practice squad, and since they’ve been generally speaking, correct about such things, let’s say that they just need to replace the actual starter since JB is clearly going to be on the PUP list at the start of the year.
There are no other positions on the field where you can say the Giants need actual starters to fill holes (with an * on running back and the almost $5 million Jacobs is set to make.)
IF the Giants do not address these positions in free agency, I have to believe they will give higher grades to OL and TE guys in the draft. It is really hard to believe that the Giants would take a TE at the end of the first round, but there is certainly a chance that with other teams trying to copy what the Giants have by picking lots of DL and WR in the first round, the BPA might be a TE.
My hopes are that a versatile OL falls to them at 32, but that is just what I think they need today, before the FA signings have happened.
I also believe that the Giants will have more picks on draft day, because they aren’t going to give Osi the big money he wants and nobody in their right mind thinks that he won’t hold out the whole year rather than play for the $3.9 million he is due this year.
I dont see Osi holding out the yr.. Thats 4 mill he will never see again.
I agree on the OL and TE ..I wouldn’t mind seeing Scott Chandler come back on the cheap. I think he may not rec great offers because of the way he tailed off.
OL is a must .. I think its imperative we become a stout run team once again .. Teams like the 9rs, Steelers,Ravens, Eagles, Skins ,Atlanta (Mike Nolen the new DC) and maybe the Saints (with Spags) will all give us fits if we are this one dimensional next season… Eli will regress not in ability but #s if we don’t!!
If its the draft ,FA or Petrus and Brewer stepping up , it has to happen …. I wont be happy if (super sub) Boothe is in the starting lineup next season.
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Finally we get to see J Lin!!! Giant LB'zz
Okay, I retract my Osi statement.
I still think he’ll be an unhappy, non-camper if he doesn’t get significant money, but I guess if it comes down to it, he would show up and play. I just don’t think the Giants want that to happen, and I am guessing that they also don’t want to give him the extra cash.
Osi was kind of an afterthought for me. The big point was that the Giants have serious needs at OL and TE unlike any other position, and I think that we’ll see the biggest concentration of FA money / draft picks pointing in that direction over the more interesting spots of WR, RB, or LB. (An exciting RB in the draft would be pretty cool though! As long as they added some guys to block for him that is.)
Fleener!Fleener!Fleener!...Allen looks good also,kind of a smaller Brandon Pettigrew.
Harrison Smith prob won’t make it that far..but I would love a sweet S to be groomed for Rolle getting cut in 2113.
Osi will get traded for picks.
All the way to a Super Bowl victory like a knife through butter
JPP Is hands down the best DE in the NFL right now
Can't spell Elite without ELI
Jerry Reese for President 2012..let's make that happen!
I'm not sure I want to watch Rolle get toasted out there on the field
When he’s 129 years old.
GIANTS! SB46 CHAMPS!
I am sure Reese will shock us again this year.
"They got a big-mouthed coach, a big mouth and a big-bellied coach that talks too much and now it's finally time to shut up- Brandon Jacobs
I don't know if he shocked us last year
But I do see that this team has been valuing “High Ceiling” a lot more than it had in the past.
This year they took Prince as the no-brainer in round 1. He had a high grade at a high value position. Had to take him, and he probably would have been a key contributor this year had he not broken his foot hours after signing.
In Round 2 he took a total high-ceiling guy with Austin. Ditto for the Brewer, Scott and J. Williams picks. (Last year he did it with JPP and ::cough:: Dodge. Prior to that, Beatty and Barden.)
Interestingly, in 2011 they also took some gamers who seemed destined to be good special team guys even if they might not have the potential to be starters in both the Draft and with the Undtrafted Free Agents.
I think this is the general strategy: Clear BPA at positions that should see significant playing time right away at the top of the draft. The BPA rating will be a combination of ready to play now and potential. In the middle of the draft, go with high ceiling guys who can be worked into the rotation, but have the potential to be starters instead of the likelihood of being a quality reserve. (Leads to busts, but hey, no risk, no reward.) The last day of the draft use the picks on either risky guys or clearly useful special teamers.
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