How To Decide the Best Team in the League - A Refresher
by AJ_in_VA on Feb 7, 2012 3:11 PM EST
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PrintI keep reading people saying that they think X team (their favorite team) is a better team than the Giants this past year.
I just have to ask: how do they measure that?
I just find it endlessly amusing that so many fans cite some unarticulated criteria of their own to judge who is or is not a better team.
If the criteria are not measured by on the field performance and results, what are they but speculative fantasies?
Let me break it down for everyone. This will just take a minute.
In the NFL team results are not measured by stats but by wins and losses. And because schedules are not all equal across the league, there’s a tournament at the end to decide who is the best.
It’s not complicated.
And that’s why all this other stuff from some fan bases (you know who you are) is so entertaining. It's comedy gold because it’s silly, churlish and - most of all - immune to reason.
So, here's an open call for arguments. For those of you who think your team or some other team was better than the New York Football Giants in 2011-2012, what are your criteria for making that judgment. . .besides what teams or players you like, I mean?
Please share your work with the class. Bonus comedy points for remarks about the looks on Eli's face.
FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.
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The best team
The winner of the Super Bowl is not always the best team. The Giants might not ever be the best team, and I am a huge Giants fan. The winner of the Super Bowl is the team that won the tournament. Many things factor into who wins the tournament. That is what makes the NFL so exciting compared to the other major pro sports. One and done, rather then a best of 7 series, is exciting but doesn’t always favor the best team.
I think the Giants are good, but they did lose in the season to the 49ers and Packers who they then beat in the playoffs. They are 50% against those teams, the Giants just won the more important of the 2 games.
So people have the right to say their team is better. We can say our team is the Champion. I like Champion more then better.
so what are your criteria for "best team?"
Just reasserting the opinion you state avoids my question.
What is this secret divination people perform to define the best team?
Please enlighten us so we can all understand.
Now everyone will say Eli is in Bradys class. F*ck me
by PatNation85 on Nov 6, 2011 4:31 PM PST
by AJ_in_VA on Feb 7, 2012 8:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It is easy to tell the best team.
When i look at NFL history i look at the league champion/superbowl winner list. To me in any given year the name of the team that won it all is the best team of the year. When in the future people look at the 2011 season they will see that NYGiants won in the end.
For us who witnessed it know that we beat the very best teams to get to that award. Number 1 seed, number 2 seed, best team in the league etc. So in the end it does even out from the regular season and the best team wins it all in the end.
In 2007 we had an undefeated team which got beat by us. So if we were better than them on that day then the Pats were not the best team of the year. How can the best team from regular season just not win in the end.
This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.
How about the system we got?
The rules of the system are well explained & widely diseminated. The rules of the game are published in excruciating detail. No subjectivity in either…..this is the kind of crystal clarity needed……win the Superbowl – Champion, Big Enchillada, Top Dog, etc, etc…..lose at any other stage – go home. None of the – my team is better than your team b’cos stuff that goes on in the BCS.
I'm so disappointed AJ!
I was so hoping that after the jump, you would just say:
You’ll know them when they WIN THE SUPERBOWL.
The purpose of a tournament is to crown the best team.
The champion is the best team.
That is all.
You PLAY to WIN the GAME.
Dear Tebow, please let the Giants beat the Patriots.
sigh. shoulda made it simpler
But I want to hear people back up their assertions that some other team is better. Because once they lay out their criteria, and we make them explicit. . . The arguments will be absurd and ridiculous.
Which is why I’m pretty sure no one will take up the challenge. Every argument boils down to “because I said so.”
Now everyone will say Eli is in Bradys class. F*ck me
by PatNation85 on Nov 6, 2011 4:31 PM PST
by AJ_in_VA on Feb 7, 2012 8:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yes which includes your own
Stats tell you what happened, ignoring them because it says the Giants aren’t the best belongs “because I said so” territory.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
no, actually, the league has set up a tournament to crown the best
and it’s based on results.
Ask any player or coach or anyone in the league, winning the tournament is the ultimate test. This is not controversial.
No one draws consolation from a better regular season record as a measure of a team. Individual stats are for individuals.
My standard is not “my” standard. It is the universally recognized league standard.
Now everyone will say Eli is in Bradys class. F*ck me
by PatNation85 on Nov 6, 2011 4:31 PM PST
What?
That makes no sense. Then why isn’t the tournament for everyone? What’s the point of the regular season? Why not have the season one big tournament if these games mean nothing?
The regular season shows who the dominant teams are. The tournament invites the best teams. It’s already been decided who the top teams are before the tournament. Which is why you know there are underdog meantalities and cinderella stories. Come on man.
by The Cole Train on Feb 8, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
Not that I think this will matter
Then why isn’t the tournament for everyone?
Number of games. Can you imagine playing 6 playoff games with the heightened physicality. That wouldn’t work, unless your a sadist.
What’s the point of the regular season?To win a spot in the post season tournament so that you can become a champion
Why not have the season one big tournament if these games mean nothing?Then bad teams would get eliminated after playing 1 game, that doesn’t work either.
The regular season shows who the dominant teams are.No. No it doesn’t. Lets just consider Giants v Packers. 15-1 vs 9-7 or is it 3 points different, or is it one team on a horrible losing streak finding some self belief and playing just about even with the other? So those 15 wins the Packers gathered don’t indicate dominance
Regular season record is ONLY a divisional measuring stick, then you play 14 like two different, that is fair. The Packers and Giants only had a few foes in common. If there were fewer teams you could play a balanced schedule and make it more meaningful. You ought to propose contraction to the Commish in a letter, though I wouldn’t expect much of a response.
Eli is our King!
The team who wins the Super Bowl
Is the best team in the league…why you may ask…because they are the team, the only team that gets the label of WORLD CHAMPIONS!
Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 6...
I'm down wit JPP
Yea you know me
Win Ugly.
-Eli Manning for MVP
the ultimate power rankings are draft order, barring trades.
You PLAY to WIN the GAME.
Dear Tebow, please let the Giants beat the Patriots.
Noted
Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 6...
I'm down wit JPP
Yea you know me
Win Ugly.
-Eli Manning for MVP
So in the last play of the game,
let’s say Gronk catches it. One catch like that makes the Pats a superior team? What if they didn’t have 12 men on the field during the fumble? The best team isn’t necessarily the one who wins the Super Bowl. Teams who dominate week in and week out are the best and that’s based on point differential.
But since we were hurt too much and anything happens in a season our point differential isn’t reflecting accurately on us. Our point differential in the playoffs was amazing and thus made us the best in the playoffs. But out of 100 matchups the only two teams that would beat us most of the time are the Packers and Saints.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
Yes. If the Pats win that game they are the best team in the league for 2011-2012.
Because that’s the measure.
Last year the Packers were the best.
And so on.
Now everyone will say Eli is in Bradys class. F*ck me
by PatNation85 on Nov 6, 2011 4:31 PM PST
Yes!
Ultimately, in a close match we were one play better.
You PLAY to WIN the GAME.
Dear Tebow, please let the Giants beat the Patriots.
by Simms-McConkey on Feb 7, 2012 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Just got to see your new name for the firat time.
YAY…. but…. I’m tired of it already. nywins47 sounds better.
Ernie Accorsi to Wellington Mara upon drafting Eli Manning, "This kid id going to win you a championship, and he's going to win you more than one."
Ernie is the Man(ning)
The best team is obvious
Eli is our King!
by trueblue63 on Feb 7, 2012 9:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
For those of you that want stats...
In the regular season and playoffs, Giants played 8 games against playoff teams.
Opponents’ combined record: 105-23 (.820)
Giants record vs. these opponents: 5-3
On the road: 4-2
At home: 1-1
The one game (of the above) we lost by more than one score was to the Saints in the Super Dome.
Give me another team that compares. The Patriots won one game against an opponent with a better regular season record than 8-8 (in the AFC championship against Baltimore). In two games, we outscored the unstoppable Green Bay Packers 72-58.
We beat San Francisco in San Francisco. Their offense converted one third down the entire game. Eli Manning threw for 300 yards in the rain against that defense.
More stats:
Eli Manning’s QB rating was over 100 in 5 games against playoff teams (of 8). He threw 18 touchdown passes and 6 interceptions over the course of this stretch.
The bottom line is that in any sport that uses a playoff format, the best team is the team that wins the championship. Nobody is going to tell you that Butler or Kentucky was the best team in college basketball in 2011. The Yankees weren’t the best team in baseball last season. Were the Canucks the best team in professional hockey? No.
by Max Schwager on Feb 7, 2012 10:14 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
You always pull out some good ones.
I think it was your post that compared Eli, Brady, Peyton in years 4-8. What was the name of that post?
Ernie Accorsi to Wellington Mara upon drafting Eli Manning, "This kid id going to win you a championship, and he's going to win you more than one."
Ernie is the Man(ning)
I rec'd this, but it's still cherry picking stats
which is what the people who argue the other side do.
If record against winning or playoff teams is a valid criterion, why not record against losing teams? That’s one the detractors use. Once you start going down this road, it’s all arbitrary over what collateral measures some people like more than others, and it’s usually about pushing a conclusion they’ve already reached before they look at the numbers.
This is why your last statement is the real clincher, regardless of any other stats:
The bottom line is that in any sport that uses a playoff format, the best team is the team that wins the championship.
Now everyone will say Eli is in Bradys class. F*ck me
by PatNation85 on Nov 6, 2011 4:31 PM PST
Well, that's the thing
Today’s NFL is so close that teams are going to lose to “bad” teams. There’s so many different factors that go into evaluating whether or not a team is good, but that’s why the system is the way it is (with a regular season and then a playoff).
I look at record against playoff teams first because it indicates whether or not a team can play well against the league’s best. The Giants did just that. In big games (with the notable exception of New Orleans) they stepped right up to the plate.
Take New Orleans as an example. They lost to Tampa Bay, and St. Louis. But they beat good teams throughout the season.
So, I’m not ignoring some of the games the Giants lost, just that to me, without getting really detailed with stats, the best way to look at how good a team is, would be to look at how they played against the league’s best. The Giants played extraordinarily well against playoff teams this season, with most of those games being on the road (75%).
Other factors (matchups, critical injuries, and so on) come into play at times, and that’s why good teams can lose to “bad” ones. Still, there’s not much separation between the top teams in the league, and that’s exactly what the Giants record against playoff teams shows. Even though they didn’t play consistently great, they played very well when it counted.
With the parity the system is just fine the way it is.
This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.
by BB1156 on Feb 9, 2012 4:19 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I can haz cheeseburger?
Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 6...
I'm down wit JPP
Yea you know me
Win Ugly.
-Eli Manning for MVP
CheeburgerCheeburgerCheeburger
Eli is our King!
there's no other way to decide football then the way it is
we can’t do best of 3 or anything like that, only play once a week so it would take too long.
And the Giants beat all the best teams save for the Saints in the playoffs. They beat them. No one remembers the best team that didn’t win it. People remember the team that won it.
And these idiot Packers fans really need to shut up. Its like they don’t even remember last year when they were the worst team to make the playoffs, yet they won it. Saints fans (if they exist) already don’t say anything cuz they know how it feels to lose to a 7-9 team.
The regular season doesn’t matter. Nobody cares what you did aside from what seed you are. That’s all that matters. Everyone’s record is 0-0 in the playoffs. You don’t get a head start, a 10-0 lead or any bullcrap like that based on your regular season record. IT doesn’t matter. THrow it out the window.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
One extra thing
They could do it however they wanted too.
They could run a tournament for all 32. 16 plays 1, etc etc. they could get rid of the wild cards. They could let Ann Mara pick the names out of a hat.
Things are what they are. Crying about it is a waste of time. Plax shot himself. We were on pace to break some Giant scoring records, and TC was routinely throttling that offense back. They didn’t say, oh no the Giants lost a key guy, let’s let them trade for a guy from a losing team. We were butt out of luck. That’s it.
Personally I wouldn’t oppose killing the wildcard. But that’s a revenue thing. I’d never want more playoff games, the season is a meat grinder as it is.
Eli is our King!
Ann Mara would somehow pick the Giants without cheating.
This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.
Lol then have Terry Bradshaw announce it
This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.
Mike and Mike were talking about it this morning
They talked about the Packers and Giants both getting hot at the same time two years in a row. They stated the difference was the Packers were hurt and lost guys all year long while the Giants lost guys but got them back to be healthy at the right time. Disagree with this statement alot.
Then once they said, maybe college football has the right system to decide who they best team is… I turned it off.
New York Giants 2011 Super Bowl Champions = FACT
The NFL will now FEAR THE LOWERCASE ny
by The Always Well Dressed... on Feb 8, 2012 2:24 PM EST reply actions
they held the BCS up as a model?
wow am I glad I’m not in the NY radio market.
Now everyone will say Eli is in Bradys class. F*ck me
by PatNation85 on Nov 6, 2011 4:31 PM PST
People get paid a lot of money to do very little
In terms of analysis.
The Giants got some guys back. But because the players that have been IRed for the entire season aren’t superstar quality, they dismiss them. Jonathan Goff? Terrell Thomas? Starting cornerback and starting middle linebacker. Hell, Chase Blackburn spent the first three months of the season unemployed.
Will Beatty wasn’t present during the postseason run. How many teams lose their starting LT (and arguably, best offensive lineman) and still have that kind of success?
Domenik Hixon, Marvin Austin, and Stacy Andrews are all players that could have made contributions, but could not because they were on IR.
But yeah, we got all of our players back right on time! Makes me laugh, but we’re all used to it.
College basketball has the best system, because you get teams that make the tournament based on strength of opponent, but then they still have to go and win the tournament.
But even if there were a ranking system for the regular season, the Giants played the toughest schedule in the league, so I don’t see how they wouldn’t make the playoffs in any scenario.
by Max Schwager on Feb 8, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
REC'D
I was saying the samething about our injuries. They acted like we didn’t have anyone on the IR and kept saying we got healthy at the right time and had our full 53 man roster. It really really really bothered me hearing that so much.
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