Roster Predictions with Salary Cap 2012-2014
This post not only looks at the upcoming season's roster and salary cap issues, but also the two following seasons as well. I was particularly interested in reviewing 2013 because so many of our key players are free agents then. Also, the moves made this year affect future years. But why three? It's because I'm a religious man. Does not the holy book say "Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three."
For easier review and discussion below I divided up the post into sections by year. For each year I list a 53-man roster, which may be a player name or a generic identifier like "5th CB", because it does not matter who the particular player is, just that there is a slot for someone who should be making a minimum salary. I lumped most of the LBs into piles that I'll let the coaches sort out, I'll stick to predicting the approximate cap cost, so don't read anything into who is where. After the player name is an identification if they are a free agent and the specific type. In these first two columns, parentheses indicate that the player or his original free agency status has been replaced. The next column is a brief description of the action in that player slot for the offseason. This covers a variety and combination of actions such as cut, re-signed, reworked, drafted, new free agent. If a player is cut or contract reworked I will provide the old cap number that would have applied. Details on new contracts and drafted player names will appear separately below. The next column is their cap increase from the previous season as listed in their contract as of today. I wanted to show some of the big jumps that affect our cap number; this column becomes less relevant with time. The last column will be the cap number for that season. At the bottom of the roster I will add the roster cap number, the dead contract number (see next paragraph), an allowance for players on injured reserve (or more accurately, their replacements), and the cost of the practice squad to achieve a final cap number. This will be compared to the anticipated cap number, which right now on mostly consensus speculation will be 4% higher in 2012, meaning that NFL revenue increased by 8%. I used this same increase for 2013 and 2014.
Everyone understands the concept of salary. You do this work, you get this much money. But the key factor in salary cap number crunching is signing bonuses. Signing bonuses in the NFL are paid out in a particular year (typically all in the first year of a new contract), but are prorated to count against the salary cap equally throughout the length of a contract (except that the new CBA limits the prorating to five years). The player gets their money up front, and the team gets to lower their immediate cap number, because they can usually offer a very low salary in the first year since the signing bonus replaces salary. So for a 4-year contract for $24 million which includes a $8 million signing bonus, the salaries might be 1, 5, 5, 5 while the cap numbers would be 3, 7, 7, 7 and the actual cash paid out is 9, 5, 5, 5. The signing bonus also impacts releasing players during their contracts. If a player is cut before the end of their contract, and there is remaining signing bonus money that is to be counted against future salary caps, it all becomes counted against the current year's cap. This is called "dead" money. So signing bonuses can be a tactic that players use to become too expensive to be cut. Eli and Baas are in that situation now. Of course, if a player thinks he can get a better contract, he may want a lower signing bonus number and a higher salary number to increase the chance he is let go.
But here are the cap hits from potential player cuts over the next few years:
|
|
2012 |
2013 |
2014 |
|
|
(in millions of dollars) |
||
|
Baas |
6.8 |
5.1 |
3.4 |
|
Boley |
2.8 |
1.4 |
|
|
Canty |
4.2 |
2.8 |
1.4 |
|
Diehl |
1 |
0.5 |
|
|
Jacobs |
2 |
|
|
|
Rolle |
6 |
4 |
2 |
|
Snee |
4.5 |
2.25 |
|
|
Tuck |
3.6 |
1.8 |
|
|
Umenyiora |
0.75 |
|
|
|
Webster |
4.5 |
1.75 |
|
Roster or workout bonuses are a different story that does not really affect my cap calculations. They are all counted in the year paid. The general concept is that by forcing a team to make an early payout, which will then count against the cap, you are increasing the likelihood that the team will keep the player and pay the remainder of his salary due (otherwise they lose their down payment for nothing) or you are forcing them to cut the player early, giving them the best chance for finding a new team. If they make the payment but later cut him, the player gets to keep the roster bonus to help make up for missing time in free agency.
So here's the main event:
|
2012 |
||||
|
Player/Slot |
Status |
Action |
Increase |
Cap Number |
|
(all numbers in millions of dollars) |
||||
|
Manning |
|
|
2.25 |
15.2 |
|
Carr |
UFA |
re-sign |
|
1.25 |
|
Bradshaw |
|
|
1.75 |
4.5 |
|
Jacobs |
|
cut - Draft 4th - due $7 |
2 |
0.685 |
|
Ware |
|
|
|
1 |
|
Scott |
|
|
|
0.5 |
|
Hynoski |
|
|
|
0.5 |
|
Nicks |
|
|
|
2 |
|
Cruz |
|
|
|
0.5 |
|
Manningham |
UFA |
Draft 3rd |
-1.5 |
0.5 |
|
Barden |
|
|
|
0.75 |
|
Jernigan |
|
|
|
0.6 |
|
Thomas/Hixon/6th WR |
UFA |
minimum contract |
|
0.675 |
|
Ballard |
ERFA |
IR - Draft 1st |
1.75 |
|
|
Pascoe |
RFA |
re-sign |
|
1.25 |
|
Beckum |
|
IR - Hopkins from PS |
|
0.375 |
|
Beatty |
|
|
|
0.75 |
|
McKenzie |
UFA |
Ugoh |
-6 |
0.675 |
|
Brewer |
|
|
|
0.465 |
|
Diehl |
|
cut - Draft 6th - due $4.3 |
|
0.375 |
|
Snee |
|
|
2.25 |
7.75 |
|
Petrus |
|
|
|
0.5 |
|
Boothe |
|
|
0.5 |
1.5 |
|
Baas |
|
|
2.25 |
5 |
|
Umenyiora |
|
cut - due $4.65 - LB spot |
0.75 |
0.5 |
|
Tuck |
|
|
1.25 |
7.5 |
|
Pierre-Paul |
|
|
0.25 |
3.75 |
|
Tollefson |
UFA |
minimum or rookie FA |
|
0.375 |
|
Trattou |
|
|
|
0.5 |
|
Canty |
|
|
0.5 |
7.67 |
|
Joseph |
|
|
|
1 |
|
Austin |
|
|
|
0.85 |
|
Bernard |
UFA |
re-sign |
|
1.25 |
|
Goff |
UFA |
re-sign |
|
1 |
|
Boley |
|
|
0.5 |
5.65 |
|
Kiwanuka |
|
rework - due $5.5 |
2.5 |
3.5 |
|
Williams |
|
|
|
0.5 |
|
Jones/Blackburn |
|
|
|
0.5 |
|
Sintim/Herzlich |
|
cut Sintim - due $1.25 |
|
0.5 |
|
Paysinger/Tracy |
|
1 LB gets Osi's slot |
|
0.5 |
|
Webster |
|
|
1.5 |
8.75 |
|
Thomas |
UFA |
re-sign |
|
1 |
|
Ross |
UFA |
Draft 2nd |
-1.5 |
0.685 |
|
Amukamara |
|
|
-0.5 |
1.75 |
|
5th CB |
|
|
|
0.565 |
|
Rolle |
|
|
5.5 |
9 |
|
Phillips |
|
|
0.25 |
2 |
|
Grant |
UFA |
Draft 5th |
|
0.375 |
|
Sash |
|
|
|
0.5 |
|
Martin/special teamer |
UFA |
re-sign |
|
0.675 |
|
Weatherford |
UFA |
re-sign |
|
1.5 |
|
Tynes |
|
|
|
1.5 |
|
DeOssie |
|
|
|
1.1 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Roster Cap Number |
|
|
14.5 |
113.995 |
|
Dead Contracts |
|
|
|
4.15 |
|
IR Adjustment |
|
|
|
5 |
|
Practice Squad |
|
|
|
0.75 |
|
TEAM SALARY |
|
|
|
123.895 |
|
Salary Cap |
|
|
|
124 |
Cut: Jacobs, Diehl, Umenyiora
Not Re-signed: Manningham, McKenzie, Ross, Grant, role players not taking minimums
Re-signed: Carr (3 years $4.25 million), Pascoe (1 year $1.25 million), Bernard (2 years $2.5 million), Goff (3 years, $5.5 million - annual 1, 2.25, 2.25), TThomas (1 year $1 million), Weatherford (4 years $7.5 million, $2 million signing bonus), role players taking minimums
Reworked: Kiwanuka (5 years $40 million, $7.5 million signing bonus), starts this year
Drafted: 1st - Dwayne Allen, TE, Clemson - Witten-type player, more agile than fast, blocker but not a pile pusher, good hands
2nd - Brandon Boykin, CB/RS, Georgia - Our new nickel CB, fast with good return skills, small but tough, good tackler
3rd - A.J. Jenkins, WR, Illinois - Speed WR fills Manningham's role
4th - Vick Ballard, RB, Mississippi State - Between the tackles strong runner
5th - Neiko Thorpe, FS, Auburn - Tall CB converted to FS last year
6th - Blake DeChristopher, G/T, Virginia Tech - power run blocker that can pull, college RT but NFL guard
This is not going to be popular. But as you can see we have large increases to the cap numbers of players under contract. And the new CBA lowered the salary cap from the 2009 level. So teams near the top need to shed money. There is no space for additions, especially because I am saving cap room for 2013. Kiwanuka gets extended because it saves cap room this year, and the early signing bonus allows us to get a lower overall price. He will be playing more DE. Osi and Diehl are gone simply because they are the cheapest to shed. Jacobs is not worth his salary. We don't have the cap room to be patient with Sintim, and he is a free agent next year anyway. Everyone loves Tolly, but if some team shows him a little money, it would be hard for us to match. There are certainly ways to move around a quarter million here, a quarter million there. But this should illustrate the seriousness of our situation.
The league and draft boards are filled with QBs, so Carr is never going to get a starting shot again. But you find a backup you like and pay him decent money or you wind up like Indy last year. Guarantee his contract to keep him around. Guarantee most of Weatherford's deal too to keep him. Goff starts out low so we can cut him if he fails. Pascoe needs to get a decent payday since he is the only experienced TE on the roster, although I am bringing over Hopkins from the practice squad. But the $1.25 million protects Pascoe because it would cost a team a 6th rounder to sign him away. Bernard could probably get less, or be let go for the savings. But he had some good snaps this year, so I kept him around with a little raise to keep him from wandering off.
Where Brewer was drafted in the 4th last year, you expect a starter at right tackle. So it's going to have to be him. We can't afford to keep Diehl around as an option, and is a draft pick this year going to start? Draft a right tackle in the 2nd, and Thomas' knee can't cut it, all of a sudden Rolle is back at nickel and Sash is starting. Trust in Reese that the less visible draft picks last year will perform. You don't have a choice. There will be competition for the starting CB, MLB, and LG jobs.
|
2013 |
||||
|
Player/Slot |
Status |
Action |
Increase |
Cap Number |
|
(all numbers in millions of dollars) |
||||
|
Manning |
|
|
2.25 |
17.5 |
|
Carr |
|
|
|
1.5 |
|
Bradshaw |
|
|
0.75 |
5.25 |
|
(Jacobs) |
(UFA) |
replaced by 4th |
|
0.85 |
|
Ware |
UFA |
low pick or UDFA |
-1 |
0.375 |
|
Scott |
|
|
|
0.55 |
|
Hynoski |
|
|
|
0.5 |
|
Nicks |
|
|
0.25 |
2.25 |
|
Cruz |
RFA |
re-sign |
|
3 |
|
(Manningham) |
|
replaced by 3rd |
|
0.6 |
|
Barden |
UFA |
minimum or low pick |
|
0.465 |
|
Jernigan |
|
|
|
0.7 |
|
Thomas/Hixon/6th WR |
|
minimum contract |
|
0.675 |
|
(Ballard) |
(RFA) |
replaced by 1st |
|
1.25 |
|
Pascoe |
UFA |
Draft 4th |
|
0.4 |
|
Beckum |
UFA |
Bllrd/Psco/Hopk/Beck |
|
1.75 |
|
Beatty |
UFA |
re-sign |
|
4 |
|
(McKenzie) Ugoh |
|
|
|
0.81 |
|
Brewer |
|
|
|
0.55 |
|
(Diehl) |
|
replaced by 6th- due $4.6 |
|
0.5 |
|
Snee |
|
cut - Draft 2nd - due $8.75 |
1 |
0.75 |
|
Petrus |
|
|
|
0.5 |
|
Boothe |
UFA |
re-sign |
|
1.5 |
|
Baas |
|
|
1.25 |
6.25 |
|
(Umenyiora) |
(UFA) |
Draft 1st |
|
2 |
|
Tuck |
|
reworked - due $8.3 |
0.8 |
5.8 |
|
Pierre-Paul |
|
|
0.5 |
4.25 |
|
Tollefson |
|
minimum, rookie FA, or LB |
|
0.5 |
|
Trattou |
|
or LB |
|
0.5 |
|
Canty |
|
|
0.25 |
8 |
|
Joseph |
|
|
|
1 |
|
Austin |
|
|
0.25 |
1 |
|
Bernard |
|
|
|
1.25 |
|
Goff |
|
|
|
2.25 |
|
Boley |
|
|
0.25 |
6 |
|
Kiwanuka |
(UFA) |
|
|
9 |
|
Williams |
|
|
|
0.55 |
|
Jones/Blackburn |
|
|
|
0.55 |
|
Herzlich |
|
or low draft pick |
|
0.5 |
|
Paysinger/Tracy |
|
|
|
0.55 |
|
Webster |
|
reworked - due $9.25 |
0.5 |
4.75 |
|
Thomas |
|
Draft 5th |
|
0.4 |
|
(Ross) |
|
replaced by 2nd |
|
0.85 |
|
Amukamara |
|
|
0.5 |
2.25 |
|
5th CB |
|
|
|
0.675 |
|
Rolle |
|
cut - Draft 3rd - due $9.25 |
0.25 |
0.6 |
|
Phillips |
UFA |
re-sign |
|
3 |
|
(Grant) |
|
replaced by 5th |
|
0.465 |
|
Sash |
|
|
|
0.55 |
|
Martin/special teamer |
|
re-sign |
|
0.675 |
|
Weatherford |
|
|
|
2 |
|
Tynes |
UFA |
re-sign |
|
1.5 |
|
DeOssie |
UFA |
re-sign |
|
1.1 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Roster Cap Number |
|
|
7.8 |
113.49 |
|
Dead Contracts |
|
|
|
6.25 |
|
IR Adjustment |
|
|
|
6 |
|
Practice Squad |
|
|
|
1 |
|
TEAM SALARY |
|
|
|
126.74 |
|
Salary Cap |
|
|
|
128 |
Cut: Snee, Rolle
Not Re-signed: Ware, more than one TE, role players not taking minimums
Re-signed: Cruz (4 years $28 million, $8 million signing bonus), someone at TE, Beatty (3 years $14 million, $3 million signing bonus), Boothe (2 years $3 million), Phillips (5 years $30 million, $10 million signing bonus), Tynes (3 years $4.5 million), DeOssie (3 years $3.3 million), role players taking minimums
Reworked: Tuck (2 years $10 million, $6 million signing bonus), Webster (3 years $13 million, $6 million signing bonus)
Drafted: 1st - William Gholston, DE, Michigan State - In a loaded pass rusher draft, a prototypical Giants DE falls to us - or Devin Taylor, DE, South Carolina
2nd - Chance Warmack, G, Alabama - The next Snee, agile and strong
3rd - Rashard Hall, S, Clemson - Good size, athletic
4th - Michael Williams, TE, Alabama - The best blocking TE in years, 6-6 270
I think this year will make people happier. We resigned all of our key guys. Let's hear some celebration. "Oh baby Reese, Reese got what we need..." Phillips is expensive but the safety talent out there is awful. Cruz probably gives us a small discount to stay near his family and play with Eli, and because he is a RFA. Beatty has not proven himself as a top tackle yet, I'm watching Joe Staley this offseason to get an idea of where Beatty's value lies. But money needs to be found for these guys. I fought long and hard with the numbers to keep Canty. Snee, Webster, and Tuck are all in the last and most expensive year of their deals. Snee was the one to go because his position can least justify the high salary. That leaves Boothe, Petrus, DeChristopher, and Warmack to fight it out for the two guard spots. Tuck will likely retire soon, as I can see him, like Strahan, recognizing when he is done. His new deal and Webster's were designed to pay them the same amount of cash this year, but extend them at lower salaries in future years to flatten out their cap numbers. Both are at the age where they have seen the last of increasing pay. Rolle is gone because it makes no sense to use 10% of your cap on the safety position. At this point he will likely be the highest-paid safety in the league. I'd rather keep KP over him.
There are some ways to free up more cap space. They could keep Christian Hopkins as the third TE and let the older TEs go; I put in a generous cap number. If Goff does not win the starting MLB job he can also be cut to save money. Also, Eli's annual raises over $2 million each year have to be renegotiated. It eats up half the cap increase. If he wants to keep his WRs, he's got to make the cap room available. Maybe he enables us to keep Snee for one more year. Or he antes up if our WRs get better offers.
Usually the Giants are drafting players before they are needed. But the new salary cap and our past free agent moves have limited our ability to do that. Snee and Rolle are being replaced by picks in this year's draft, although I do not necessarily think the draft picks start right away. There's a good pool of competition at guard, and at safety you have Sash, Thorpe (last year's fifth), and possibly even Chad Jones in the mix. Not ideal but something you have to do for a year. Even if they find a way to keep Snee I think they still draft Warmack, unless Petrus has proven himself, but he is a free agent next year and we cannot afford to give him a big raise if he does play very well.
|
2014 |
||||
|
Player/Slot |
Status |
Action |
Increase |
Cap Number |
|
(all numbers in millions of dollars) |
||||
|
Manning |
|
|
2.1 |
19.6 |
|
Carr |
|
|
|
1.5 |
|
Bradshaw |
|
|
0.25 |
5.5 |
|
(Jacobs) |
|
replaced by 4th |
|
1 |
|
(Ware) |
|
Draft 3rd |
|
0.6 |
|
Scott |
|
|
|
0.65 |
|
Hynoski |
|
|
|
0.65 |
|
Nicks |
UFA |
re-sign |
|
3 |
|
Cruz |
|
|
|
8 |
|
(Manningham) |
|
replaced by 3rd |
|
0.75 |
|
Barden |
|
minimum or low pick |
|
0.55 |
|
Jernigan |
|
|
|
0.8 |
|
Thomas/Hixon/6th WR |
|
minimum contract |
|
0.81 |
|
(Ballard) |
|
replaced by 1st |
|
1.75 |
|
Pascoe |
|
replaced by 4th |
|
0.5 |
|
Beckum |
|
3rd TE |
|
1.75 |
|
Beatty |
|
|
|
4 |
|
(McKenzie) Ugoh |
|
|
|
0.81 |
|
Brewer |
|
|
|
0.65 |
|
(Diehl) |
(UFA) |
replaced by 6th |
|
0.55 |
|
(Snee) |
(UFA) |
replaced by 2nd |
1 |
1 |
|
Petrus |
UFA |
minimum or low pick |
|
0.75 |
|
Boothe |
|
|
|
1.5 |
|
Baas |
|
|
0.5 |
6.75 |
|
(Umenyiora) |
|
replaced by 1st |
|
2 |
|
Tuck |
(UFA) |
|
-6.75 |
6 |
|
Pierre-Paul |
|
reworked - due $4.5 |
0.25 |
6.325 |
|
Tollefson |
|
rookie FA or LB |
|
0.55 |
|
Trattou |
|
|
|
0.65 |
|
Canty |
|
cut - Draft 2nd - due $8.25 |
0.25 |
0.75 |
|
Joseph |
UFA |
re-signed |
|
2.5 |
|
Austin |
|
|
0.25 |
1.15 |
|
Bernard |
UFA |
re-signed |
|
1.25 |
|
Goff |
|
|
|
2.25 |
|
Boley |
UFA |
Draft 4th |
-6 |
0.4 |
|
Kiwanuka |
|
|
|
9.5 |
|
Williams |
|
|
|
0.65 |
|
Jones/Blackburn |
|
|
|
0.65 |
|
Herzlich |
|
or low draft pick |
|
0.5 |
|
Paysinger/Tracy |
|
|
|
0.65 |
|
Webster |
(UFA) |
|
|
5 |
|
(Thomas) |
|
replaced by 5th |
|
0.5 |
|
(Ross) |
|
replaced by 2nd |
|
1 |
|
Amukamara |
|
|
-0.25 |
2 |
|
5th CB |
|
Draft 1st |
|
2.25 |
|
Rolle |
|
replaced by 3rd - due $9.25 |
|
0.7 |
|
Phillips |
|
|
|
6.5 |
|
(Grant) |
|
replaced by 5th |
|
0.55 |
|
Sash |
|
|
|
0.65 |
|
Martin/special teamer |
|
|
|
0.675 |
|
Weatherford |
|
|
|
2 |
|
Tynes |
|
|
|
1.5 |
|
DeOssie |
|
|
|
1.1 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Roster Cap Number |
|
|
-8.4 |
122.12 |
|
Dead Contracts |
|
|
|
1.4 |
|
IR Adjustment |
|
|
|
6 |
|
Practice Squad |
|
|
|
1 |
|
TEAM SALARY |
|
|
|
130.52 |
|
Salary Cap |
|
|
|
132 |
Cut: Canty
Not Re-signed: Boley
Re-signed: Nicks (5 years $38 million, $10 million signing bonus), Bernard (1 year $1.25 million), Joseph (3 years $9 million) - not really sure on this last one, figured the cap number I gave could also cover a larger deal with signing bonus
Reworked: Pierre-Paul (5 years $55 million, $15 million signing bonus)
Drafted: 1st - CB - The future replacement for Webster
2nd - DT - The replacement for Canty
3rd - RB - The future replacement for Bradshaw
4th - LB - Lots of LB contracts expiring, could use a higher pick for once
Canty's run ends in the final year of his deal, not a huge surprise. Boley should be replaceable by someone in our stable of linebackers, although possibly we could work out a short deal to keep him for less money. The big key was securing our franchise players, Nicks and JPP. Nicks could probably get a little more money, but adding $500k a year does not affect my numbers. I resigned JPP a year early. I originally started working on a new contract him for him as a way to save money in 2014, but the end result paid him more. I kept it anyway. Starting him a year early allows us to get better contract terms. Possibly the contract gets renegotiated during the season, which would push off the cap hit until 2015.
The draft returns to the Reese of old, grabbing players before they are needed. I debated leaving a high pick open as an "emergency pick", assuming that one high draft pick from an earlier year was a bust. This could certainly still be done, as most of these picks could be pushed back a round or saved on a need basis for next year. But I felt it was more valuable to see where I would go if I could. You may notice that I have not been guessing at lower round players. This is because I decided to assume that none would be valuable starters for the franchise, and the picks would be used as needed to fill depth at certain positions such as OL, WR, and LB.
While I did not analyze 2015 in detail, it should be noted that there will be a lot of pressure to meet that salary cap since the new Nicks and JPP contracts will kick in full force. Coming off the books to help pay for those will be Bradshaw and Tuck, both of whom should be done based upon their injury history. Maybe we can keep Bradshaw around for cheap. You also have expiring contracts from the huge roster class from the 2011 draft. Amukamara, Austin, Brewer, JWilliams, and Hynoski are starters on my roster, and perhaps one or two of the other linebackers as well. Webster is the only potential cut that I see, although Baas will finally be cheap enough (in terms of dead money) to be a cut option. Eli will be a free agent in 2016, so I think that contract will have to be reworked if not done previously. At this point he may be the highest-paid player in football. He will probably have to shave about $5 million a year off his cap number to keep the team running strong.
A note on player contracts. They are difficult to predict with great accuracy with the new CBA rules still kicking in. The cap is in place, but the floor is not in full effect until 2013. Right now we will be seeing player dumping to get under the cap, which will gradually give way to larger signings to make the floor. The underlying fact, however, is the teams that have been willing to spend money can no longer spend it, and the teams that are cheapskates are unlikely to spend a dime more than they have to. So I do not see a great change in player salaries from where they are today. I think the really high contracts, except for QBs, disappear, since for the most part the big free agent signings have been busts. I see it being more likely that teams will cluster good players in the $5-$10 million range as I have done here.
Right now only a handful of WRs are making more than $9 million a season, guys like the two Johnsons, Fitzgerald, and Marshall. Greg Jennings is at the bottom of that list making $9 million even. This helps me think a number of around $8 million was reasonable for Nicks and Cruz. I think factors such as the two Super Bowl wins and playing with Eli give us a cushion where other teams would have to offer more than $1 million more a season to take them away. Cruz is also a local product with nearby family, and we could give him as low as $2.5 million in his RFA season to keep him, because I don't see teams giving up the money plus a first round pick to snatch him away. Also, several years of strong drafts at WR should continue to depress salaries at the position. In 2011 there was no action except for Sidney Rice, and that did not produce good results. We'll see what Manningham draws this year.
This whole scenario shows no major free agents signing with the team because of our lack of cap space. Sure, we could let one of our expensive free agents go and sign someone cheaper. But I think we will continue to search the bargain bin for players willing to take league minimum. We had a lot of success with our low-cost signings last year. Players seem to continually choose the Giants over other teams. With the second Super Bowl win under Eli under our belts, I think you will again see lots of interest from players looking to win a championship before they retire. So we may be able to fill some important holes with veterans willing to get paid less to win.
If you have any questions, let me know. I have all of the information in one large spreadsheet so that I can run various scenarios, also plan to keep this updated on a consistent basis into the future so I don't have to do all of this work again.
FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.
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Excellent post with good research REC'D
This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.
How long did it take you to put this fan page together?
By the way it is a common error here at BBV to use the word resign when you sign a player again. The correct word is re-sign. Resign means to quit. Which makes it opposite of the meaning what we are trying to say. So this is not directed at you but just an overall observation.
This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.
Yeah, you are correct
With the size of this post, there are probably other mistakes in here as well. As long as I don’t confuse Eli and Peyton.
This took a long, long time. The data was the easier part. Used mainly Spotrac for the cost numbers, with rotoworld as the primary backup. For some of the strange contracts it would take me 10 sites until I had enough information.
The harder part which took me countless hours was running scenarios. What happens if I cut a player, can I extend him or rework the contract to save money. I had a thought that if I just traded Kiwanuka away this year, I could make all of the numbers work easily. I really tried to keep Snee, it is possible if he takes a large pay cut as Jacobs did.
My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.
2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA
You have done a very good job. Let's see what comments we get.
This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.
damn CT
putting in work at the office for all us. Much appreciated and seeing how it took you countless hours maybe a few armchair GMs around here get the picture of how much work is actually needed to get the roster filled out and to stay competitive. Really love the fact that you know which players we need to keep and pony up some cash for. I love that you kept my main man KP on the squad as well.
Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 6...
I'm down wit JPP
Yea you know me
Win Ugly.
-Eli Manning for MVP
great point about armchair GM's.
And a very interesting, thought provoking post.
Nice work ct
Ernie Accorsi to Wellington Mara upon drafting Eli Manning, "This kid id going to win you a championship, and he's going to win you more than one."
Ernie is the Man(ning)
Awesome work
I love the first option cut Jacobs Diehl and Osi. I say try to shop around Osi and Jacobs to see what you can get for them too. I rather resign Tolly over Rocky. I love to keep TT and Ross because i think TT could play like Grant did. Ross played well last year. The CB seems to be our bane of injuries. Also sign tryon to a one year deal. Also I think we can work in Blackburn he earned his spot this year at least a 2 year deal. Unfortunately that means cutting paysinger and tracy for sure. Also cutting ware and inputting brown is a possibility with Scott up coming and drafting/FA another running back also.
"They got a big-mouthed coach, a big mouth and a big-bellied coach that talks too much and now it's finally time to shut up- Brandon Jacobs
meh the injury issues always seem hit in one area
This season it was the CBs, last season it was the WRs, the year before it was the DLine, in 2005 we had 3 LBs off the streets playing in our playoff game against Carolina. Every year it seems one position is hit hard by injuries. It is why you draft the BPA because you never know where the injury bug is going to strike.
Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 6...
I'm down wit JPP
Yea you know me
Win Ugly.
-Eli Manning for MVP
tough to tell who got hit harder
Oline or WR. Last yr.
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Finally we get to see J Lin!!! Giant LB'zz
I think you try and trade Osi
Talking to other fans on MTD, there is much interest. I am not sure there is interest in any of the others because of their high and expiring salaries.
Basically anyone not taking a minimum contract had to go, the “who” is flexible, I’m not really judging one LB or other backup over another.
My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.
2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA
With the Osi Trade
You add in what will probably be a #2, which would be wisely used in this scenario so combine with the current #1 to pick up a TE and some sort of versatile OL. For example, if the Giants went into the draft with 32 and 47, I could see them evaluating the talent at the two spots (given that those are the only two where they have a distinct need for a starter) and picking one with each pick.
There will most likely still be a TE who can actually play this year in the middle of the second round, and that gives the team the opportunity to use 32 on a tackle/guard prospect who they can expect to see significant playing time in 2012. Drafting an OL in the first round who you then lock up as a starter for the next four years is a very solid football move as well as a cap move.
The ability to make this move, however, is linked to trading Osi.
Lots of work here
Only looked at 2012 so far. They won’t cut Osi, they might trade him which would have the same cap effect. Hadn’t thought about extending Kiwi, I’ll look at that.
Thanks for sharing
Blue is the color of melancholy and honesty
Green is the color of inexperience, envy and nausea.
sex.
got thoughts on this, lots of ’em. will post later
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 19, 2012 8:25 AM EST reply actions
BBI thought hen was on Big Porn View again
I wouldn’t those thoughts, they could get pretty nasty
"Tom Coughlins hugging Flava Flav, What in the world is happening here!"
-Rich Eisen
Tremendous amount of credible, logical work!
wow – are you sure you are not applying for reese’s job, when he is cut in 2014????
Wow so much work done, rec!
i probably sound dumb asking this but what does “replace by 3rd” mean? You replace that player with whoever is drafted 3rd in teh draft?
Nets Mets Giants All day Every day.
Beware the Lopez
NY Giants Tribute
Sort of
It means the original player in that slot was replaced by a third round draft pick in a previous year
My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.
2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA
by ct17 on Feb 19, 2012 11:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Love this kind of stuff.
I think you’re right about BJ and likely Diehl as cuts (or major 2012 salary reductions) , but if JR doesn’t want to keep Osi, I think he can get something for him for even the 1 year rental, with the same cap hit to us.
I could also see Canty, and maybe Boley being cap casualties in 2013, especially Canty if Joseph and Austin look like a formidable tandem.
Personally, I think they try and keep Osi or work out a sign-and-trade with a longer term deal to get better picks in return.
One thing that may change some of this is the fact that we can do a third thing beyond pay them contract salary or cut them, and that is get a reduction in salary or they will be cut. Player has to look at what they will likely get in FA vs. what Giants offer. As an example, if Diehl is slated to get $3.825MM in 2012 salary, Giants could say drop it to $1.5MM, and if he doesn’t think he’ll get anything other than a veteran minimum elsewhere, he might still take it.
True
If the 2011 LBs continue to perform, Boley will be an attractive cut.
I tried to be conservative and estimated no voluntary pay cuts. And each rework was designed to not decrease the actual cash in the year of the new deal
My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.
2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA
by ct17 on Feb 19, 2012 11:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
but boley destroys collarbones
"I like prime rib, and I'd love to win a Super Bowl" -Andy Reid
"11 guys playing as 1 are HARD to beat" -Justin Tuck
by nyg94 on Feb 19, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
awesome
"Everybody talks about a dynasty. OUR dynasty starts today." -Michael Strahan (before Super Bowl 42)
Thanks for your hard work - Question
How do all the free agent signings figure into this during the preseason and training camp? Are they allowed to spend more than the cap on players salaries during the preseason and only have to be at the cap once the season starts?
Noted
Yes
You need to make the cap at the start of the league year ( March 10 or so), at the 53-man roster date at start of regular season, and keep it throughout the season. It is a hard cap. The league will cancel any contract that exceeds the cap. You need to leave room to sign new players should others go on IR. The fact that we had space last year was a miracle.
Of course, the roster is not full now because of free agency, so it is easier to make the March cap
My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.
2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA
by ct17 on Feb 19, 2012 11:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
are all signing bonuses ammoritized over the length of the contract?
or can they be prorated over a certain amount of years? ex. Player x gets a 15 million signing bonus for a 5 year contract. Can the team prorate the signing bonus over three years at 5 mill a year, if they have the cap room? or do they HAVE to do 3 million at 5 year.
for whatever reason i thought signing bonuses were often prorated over the first 3 years of a new contract. That may just be rookie contracts, not sure.
That I do not know
But I do not know of any cases where that has occurred. If there is an option year or voidable year, that is not included in prorating the contract.
My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.
2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA
by ct17 on Feb 19, 2012 5:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Do you guys see us signing TT over Ross after a second ACL tear in the same knee? I do not see it happening. I hope we bring both back but highly doubt it
"They got a big-mouthed coach, a big mouth and a big-bellied coach that talks too much and now it's finally time to shut up- Brandon Jacobs
TT would be cheaper,IMO
But im sure they will see him workout before they make that decision . What ever the decision Having Prince and Tryon in the mix gives the Giants leverage and flexibility.
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Finally we get to see J Lin!!! Giant LB'zz
I thought tryon is a FA also.
"They got a big-mouthed coach, a big mouth and a big-bellied coach that talks too much and now it's finally time to shut up- Brandon Jacobs
he is.. i thought it to be a foregone conclusion that we bring him back.
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Finally we get to see J Lin!!! Giant LB'zz
Few questions
I did my own 2012 version of this on excel using the spotrac numbers and I come away with a different total.
1. Where do you get the 4.15 on dead contracts for 2012? I’m guessing 2 for Jacobs, 0.75 for Osi, and the rest? Diehl? I thought Diehl doesn’t have a signing bonus so cutting him wouldn’t hurt the cap, but I might be missing on some rule.
2. What is IR adjustment? If it is money reserved for injury replacements, is that $6 mm figure you have a fixed number?
3. The number I get for JPP’s contract in 2012 is 3.15, not 3.75 using spotrac. Also shouldn’t you add Barden’s escalator of about .7 mil?
4. I might be wrong, but I believe that in 2012 the rookie minimum goes up to .390, not the .375 that you have.
Some numbers Spotrac is missing
If you look at their total contract for JPP, and then add up the yearly totals, it does not add up. I had to go elsewhere for the numbers. Same with Diehl and Webster. Diehl also has that odd tackle increase that is not explained in detail anywhere.
Ramses Barden has an unexplained performance bonus. Since he has had no performance, I judged it unlikely to have kicked in. Also possible he gets replaced if it does.
Diehl was the rest of the dead contracts number. The IR number is an estimate to cover replacements players for guys on IR, based on 2011 when we had a high number, although I took Rosenfels out of the equation because that was an odd situation.
I did not check the planned rate of minimum salary increases. I just started rounding them up by 5-10% after 2012. It got to the point I stopped moving around the numbers by $100k so I did not drive myself insane.
My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.
2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA
Good catch.
I didn’t notice the inconsistencies before. Thanks.
Spotrac and rotoworld are the best
Some of the minor ones on yahoo sports. After that, if they did not have it, I was just googling for news articles.
My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.
2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA
good work...
I don’t see Bernard sticking around that long…or even this season coming up.
but all in all good work.
Fire Fewell
You need to be a Genius to do all this crap. JR must be one hehehehe
"They got a big-mouthed coach, a big mouth and a big-bellied coach that talks too much and now it's finally time to shut up- Brandon Jacobs
JR likely has highly paid lawyers and cap specialists to assist him
Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 6...
I'm down wit JPP
Yea you know me
Win Ugly.
-Eli Manning for MVP
Nice "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" reference
Great work. Now I have to read the whole thing and try to understand it.
"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning
Crunked and Swagged out since 2011
"Let’s go out there like a bunch of crazed dogs and have some fun!" - The one and only LT
Unbelievable Post
My head is spinning. I don’t know how you did all of this but it is an epic work.
I’d comment but since I don’t know enough, I’ll keep my mouth shut (a lesson for some around here) and be thought a fool rather than opening my mouth and removing all doubt.
It would be interesting to revisit this in the future.
All the Giants should play like Mark Bavaro.
TQ, DD and KMac Must Go!
TC, PF, KG, will stay but should go for the long term good.
It is equally worthless when people are always optimistic or always pessimistic. Either way I take their opinion with a pound of salt because I know they only have one setting. I post my own thoughts, not what either side wants to read.
by UnknownJintsFan on Feb 28, 2012 9:08 AM EST reply actions
Rec'd hard... so hard
And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, O LORD, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy. And the LORD did grin and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and large chu… And the LORD spake, saying, First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.
by Plaxico Burress on Feb 28, 2012 2:00 PM EST reply actions

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