Football Outsiders: Offensive Line Giants Biggest Need
by Ed Valentine on Feb 15, 2012 12:50 PM EST
in New York Giants News
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PrintOne thing I have always been guilty of around here is not paying enough attention to the work done by the fabulous analysts at Football Outsiders. Well, since we have opened up our 2012 NFL Draft discussion, and since Georgia guard Cordy Glenn was the subject of today's 2012 NFL Draft Prospect Profile, some recent work by the folks at FO is worthy of looking at.
FO has been compiling a look at the biggest offseason needs for each NFL team. In studying the NFC East, FO determined the Giants biggest need to be the offensive line. That should hardly be surprising if you paid attention most of the season.
FO ranked the Giants offensive line 28th overall, and said the groups "was kind of a mess last season for long stretches."
It is pretty hard to disagree with that.
Outsiders tracked blown blocks this season and determined that David Diehl led the Giants with 17 of them, followed by Kareem McKenzie. That won't surprise Giants fans at all, though we have to cut Diehl a little slack for having played two positions and dealt with a broken hand. Diehl (-58.1) and McKenzie (-33.2) ranked worst among Giants' offensive line in scores compiled by Pro Football Focus. In fact, no Giants lineman received a plus score from PFF for the 2011 season.
FO's advice? "Draft the best lineman available."
Truthfully, I don't think Giants fans could be upset if that is exactly what the Giants end up doing.
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Yes we need OL
I would not be mad if the Giants drafted in the 1st and 2nd round offensive lineman.
It's still GIANTS Stadium
You down wit JPP---yeah you know me
AMINI SILATOLU OG, Midwestern State
Here’s our guy at the end of the second round (if he’s still available.) Small school, high ceiling, played tackle but would be at guard in the NFL (which means we’ve got a spot for him at LG but we know he could cover for somebody at tackle in a pinch.)
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=100015
OL is an issue, but will JR and staff use a 1st rd pick on it???
History, tells us no. Just have to wait and see I guess.
by oldschoolblue64 on Feb 15, 2012 12:54 PM EST reply actions
Eh, I wouldn’t say that’s accurate. He’s more about drafting for value than need; the Giants have generally just been fortunate enough to not have picks early enough for them to get OL picks worth a 1st rounder. If someone falls, you can bet he’ll pull the trigger.
by dpeterjohnson09 on Feb 15, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Baas
It’s funny, I was watching the Mel Kiper video from the other thread and I noticed at the bottom of the screen they had the Niners’ 2005 draft: Pick 1 Alex Smith. Pick 33 David Baas.
So essentially Baas was picked right where we are slated to pick. Didn’t realize he was a high pick.
So yeah, we didn’t draft an OL number 1, but we essentially signed one for a lot more money.
by Pink Flamingo on Feb 15, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
I was surprised he went at 33. Figured more of a 3rd round type.
by Pink Flamingo on Feb 15, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
1st round
you really need to get a game changer while they are still on the board. I think we can address our needs in the 3rd-5th
May Doug Marrone bless you and keep you.
Here is a man who gets it
Teams that are great at building through the draft do not draft for need in the first round. There is too much difference in grade between first round prospects to do that. When the Giants get into the third round and after, JR will have his choice between many prospects who carry an equal grade and can take the one who best fits a need.
You can go through the last 15 drafts and look. Roughly 50% of first round picks are busts. Only an average of 5.5 per year develop into impact players. If you watch too much Mel Kiper and Todd McShay you run the risk of developing the false impression that all first round picks will develop into impact players, and all you have to do is go and take the one that fills the biggest hole on your roster. It doesn’t work out that way. If you draft for need in the first round you are typically taking a player who carries an inferior grade to your BPA. If you continue to do that year after year, you are building your roster with inferior talent for the long term.
I'd drink her dirty bath water
It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Eeeeuuuuuuuu!!!!
I got a GIF for that!
Giants by 17 over GB, take it to the bank!
Giants by 10 over SF, take it to the bank! Well, OK, by 3, but we are Super Bowl bound!!!!!!!
Giants will score 30 (correction 21 (damn FG's/failed 2 pt conversion)) or more points, NE 20 or less. Guess who wins? Take it to the bank!
by Fester McDougal on Feb 15, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Not really
they’re telling us how water is made like 2 hydrogens and an oxygen. While water is wet it’s telling us we have an ocean of sucking.
by The Cole Train on Feb 15, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Reese cares about position (besides obvious exceptions - QB, ST)
He does care about value. Let’s pretend for a second that my big board is the same as JR’s. The first rounders I have on my board at OL are:
Matt Kalil, Riley Reiff, Jonathon Martin, Mike Adams – OT
Peter Konz – OC
David DeCastro – OG
Cordy Glenn – OG/OT
Now imagine that all seven of these guys are gone by the time we pick (which is a realistic scenario). My next rated OL is OG/OT Kelechi Osemele, that I have rated at 34, so he’d be a fringe 1st rounder/early 2nd rounder. You don’t need to know too much about him, but just know that he’s capable of playing RT and Guard. Dwayne Allen, TE is available, and I have him as my 22nd rated prospect.
I’d be willing to bet that Reese takes Allen, but its an interesting question to pose. What would you guys do?
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 15, 2012 1:02 PM EST reply actions
And we also have a great selling point with regards to FA
we WON THE SUPERBOWL.
I see FA BEING HOW WE GET A STUD OR TWO ol MEN.
And let’s all not be so quick with Baas.
Something was/is wrong with his neck and head.
Look how an injury affected Tuck and translate to him.
Hopefully it is not permanent but I know when we signed him SF was upset he left and we werer pretty happy.
I don’t think we misread his talent.
It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Only problem...
Cap room. FAs most of the time cost more than draft picks.
Husker/Giants/Mets fan living behind enemy lines.
Agree but again
in JR we trust.
It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
It's not a matter of trust.....
we have little space for anything. We can’t even afford Manningham.
by The Cole Train on Feb 15, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Thought that last year as well
It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
We can look at Center too.
Baas is/was a better Gaurd.
Now in section 133.
by Last year in Sec 127 on Feb 15, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
i think the OL should be cross trained to play center.
This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.
Allen
But id take him over most
by Giant Ken on Feb 15, 2012 1:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yup, but my point being...are we going to go mostly by position? or value?
I say value.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 15, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
:) value drives the ship
He considers position, but not in the fan oriented way
Eli is our King!
yessir. I just wanted to pose a very likely scenario that we are likely to face on April 26th
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 15, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
The Allen vs Osemele situation ain't a great one
for value vs need. Because Aleen is BPA and fills a need, lol. If this were like Fletcher Cox vs Osemele I’ll take Osemele.
by The Cole Train on Feb 15, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
My point with that is the team has multiple needs. This FootballOutsiders dude says our biggest need
is OL. So I was just posing a scenario where BPA/need vs biggest need, where do we go?
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 15, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that all of those OL are gone by 32, just mentioned that in previous post
If Allen is there, I think JR pulls the trigger on him. 32 would be reaching for Osemele and I doubt he is there at end of Rd 2. If Allen gone and all the previously mentioned OL, will be interesting to see what JR does. I would not take any other TE at 32. Depends what LBs are available or other BPAs. Could always trade out of 32 back to early Rd 2 and gain some extra picks.
Husker/Giants/Mets fan living behind enemy lines.
Yea, its si difficult to predict what will happen
by Giant Ken on Feb 15, 2012 1:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It is easy to predict: Eagles or the Cowboys will play the preseason superbowl against the Jets.
This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.
grab a tight end in FA and grab Kelechi Osemele
In the draft
Why is Tom Quinn still here? I loves me some Coach Clawfin. NY Football Giants 2012 Super FN Bowl Champions!!!!!!
Agreed JR is going to take Allen
The BPA has worked real well here so I dont think he is going to change and also fills a big need. But will TC play the kid? Now is Petrus and Brewer ready to start? I think with a full offseason Petrus might be ready. The kid can run block for sure pass blocking is the issue.
Tommy Boy twice in 4 years you still can't score more than 17 points. I guess when you dont have an illegal DVD of our defense it makes it much harder now don't it?
by NYG86-90-07-11 on Feb 15, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
I think so and here's why
I think TC saw something this year about playing rookies.
He did not want to be but also may have turned the corner with regard to getting them the reps.
Necessity was a great mother of invention.
It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Petrus
I think he can start at LG.
I think Diehl can play RT.
Now if either fails or hits the ITR then you need a backup plan. Poss Boothe at LG. RT? Duno
Bring lawyers, guns and money to get me out of this one! Stand in the Fire.
Way I See It
which is probably not the same way JR sees it is this:
Giants need OL and TE. But Giants don’t need just one OL, they could really use several. TE is just one position. OL are a much bigger asset in the NFL than TE. Therefore, getting a quality OL is probably more difficult than a TE and getting a good one in FA is going to be much more expensive. So why would you waste a 1st round pick on a TE? We’ve seen that the Giants have had the ability to pick up TEs almost anywhere and they can end up being decent to good. That does not hold true for OL. If there is a good OL available at 32, you take him; for the reasons above and the Giants current Oline sucks and needs to be much better. Whatever TE they end up getting will be that much better if the Oline is better. The inverse is generally not true (unless the TE is an exceptional blocker – but you don’t want your TE blocking all the time).
by NYStateofMind on Feb 15, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
ED!!! Bri, BAN THIS MAN!!
he uttered an obsenity I dare not ever attempt to sound out!
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
he said he cannot disagree with F.O.
assessment that we "n_ _ _ "!!! that is as good as saying it in the first place!!!
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
What are you talking about Skii???...
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
my attempt at humor
has apparently crashed and burned…
Ed said he agreed with the notion that OL was a need for the Giants.
Fester if you will, a Gif of my joke crashing and then burning.
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
I got a GIF for that!
Giants by 17 over GB, take it to the bank!
Giants by 10 over SF, take it to the bank! Well, OK, by 3, but we are Super Bowl bound!!!!!!!
Giants will score 30 (correction 21 (damn FG's/failed 2 pt conversion)) or more points, NE 20 or less. Guess who wins? Take it to the bank!
by Fester McDougal on Feb 15, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
clap............ clap..............clap..............
you went with the suckage route.
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
Hahahaha!!!!!!
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why is Tom Quinn still here? I loves me some Coach Clawfin. NY Football Giants 2012 Super FN Bowl Champions!!!!!!
Fyi... TV alert!
Sound FX from the SB is on at 2:30 today on nfl network. If you havent seen it, u need too!!!
by Giant Ken on Feb 15, 2012 1:10 PM EST via mobile reply actions
If you go back through our best OL of the last decade,
How many were first rounders?
can I get a hint?
please?
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
Zero
Pettigout was the last time we drafted OL in the 1st and he was a turnstyle/false start machine with chronic back ailments
Bleeding Blue since 1962
And what are the odds
of getting an entire line of all pros after the 3rd round in an era where scouting is now everything?
by The Cole Train on Feb 15, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
See Cruz and Lin
I got a GIF for that!
Giants by 17 over GB, take it to the bank!
Giants by 10 over SF, take it to the bank! Well, OK, by 3, but we are Super Bowl bound!!!!!!!
Giants will score 30 (correction 21 (damn FG's/failed 2 pt conversion)) or more points, NE 20 or less. Guess who wins? Take it to the bank!
by Fester McDougal on Feb 15, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Yes you're right
the exception rpoves the rule. A WR and a poitn guard of ANOTHER SPORT proves that you can draft 5 300 pound, athletic monsters past tound 3.
by The Cole Train on Feb 15, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
ok seriously, enough Lin
this is getting Tebow-esque. Let’s see him turn into something more than Kevin Maas/Aaron Small and then we can talk. Besides, this is football and I hate the Knicks. Well, don’t hate, just don’t care.
Tim Tebow wears Jeremy Lin pajamas
Ok, now no more Lin talk.
Lets draft a QB
oh shit wrong site.
Thought I was on NE’s
It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
by SNORKIS on Feb 15, 2012 1:14 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why is Tom Quinn still here? I loves me some Coach Clawfin. NY Football Giants 2012 Super FN Bowl Champions!!!!!!
I don't know how much stock you guys put in Pat Kirwin
But he says most offensive line coaches don’t want high (1st, 2nd,3rd) draft picks to be offensive lineman. They would rather take later round OL picks and mold them into their systems.
Well a bit more now anyways
It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
sounds like the philosphy of many major companies.
like mine, we go after the people we can mold and shape to do things the way we want them to be done.
Get someone with lots of experience, they end up fighting with you, because “they know whats best”
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
yeah, great
I can think of about 20 first round OLs I’d be more than happy to put on this team over any of the current starters. OLs are one of the safer 1st round picks… much lower bust ratio than, say, QBs or WRs
OL, TE, RB,
That would be my order. But imo its more likely for a defensive bpa to be selected in the first 2 rounds, then look for offensive talent to fill the gaps.
by jhMLB on Feb 15, 2012 1:16 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I think the order will ultimately end up being
based on BPA
TE, WR/OL, OL/WR, LB, DB, RB, DB, LB, OL
and I just pulled that outta my……
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
My order will be
BPA, BPA, BPA, BPA, BPA, BPA, BPA, BPA, Kicker.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 15, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Haha!!!..Kicker??
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
Got to find Tynes' replacement some time soon. He gives me heart palpitations all the time
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 15, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
you too
he hasnt missed in how many tries?? but still, I cant do it.
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
He hasn't Cundiffed or Norwooded...yet
It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
nope..
When I think hard about it, I think about “he who shall not be named because of the seattle game” and then tynes missing 2 game winning field goals in GB…
And I automatically group them together. I cant help it.
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
One thing about Tynes though that is paramount to being a kicker
and this relates to GB….
short memory
Still hit a 42 yarder in the NFC Championship at -3 degrees
Cannot think about the pressure he should have been under
It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
true
I understand I am the one being completely abnormal about this… that is why I was asking BBI if he felt the same way…
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
Actually, BBI added two rounds to the draft
so I think he is being abnormal
It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
we're projected to get two compensatory picks. So we get 9 draft picks this year most likely
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 15, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
I did not know that but I was going by one per round
trying to make a funny.
Should have kept my mouth shut
It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
hahaha It's cool. I'm abnormal as it is so it still works lol
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 15, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
hey my joke up top
didnt do so well either.. that makes 2 of us.
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
Brisulph jumped all over that one..hahaha!!!
He’ll need to re-sharpen his talons…LOL!!
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
sorry buddy he got it right
we have 9 picks this year
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
Hey the guy did kick us to two Super Bowls
I believe in Lawrence Party Tynes
that is cheating btw...
seriously though,
best guess on what the BPA for round 1 is.
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
Lets think about who will need a TE AND has the same draft philosophy as JR
that drafts before us.
It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
I'm going with Alshon Jeffery
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 15, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
oooohhhhh nice.
and I know who he is now, thanks to you.
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
I take that back
rumor is, he dropped his 40 time to 4.8 and is weighing in at 248.
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
I ran a 4.8 in high school!!!
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
That was a month ago.
Hakeem Nicks had similar rumors swirling around him before he was drafted. I think it turned out quite well for us.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 15, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
I just saw that it was posted on Monday of this week.
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
link?
News broke of it last week. But that 40 time/weight rumor was that he was in Indy training and thats what his weight and 40 time was a month ago.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 15, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
this was posted on the 13th
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
yeah...pre-draft workouts that were in January.
Also I don’t care much for Russ Lande either
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 15, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
I ran a 4.8 last week running from the law
Needless to say i got caught.
Why is Tom Quinn still here? I loves me some Coach Clawfin. NY Football Giants 2012 Super FN Bowl Champions!!!!!!
I did 13 MPH on my Lawn Tractor going to the beer store...
And got pulled over…Apparently neighbors don’t like it when you have the blades engaged and mow a damn streak across their front yards……Bastages…
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
What the hell is wrong with them
Shessssssssssssssss
Why is Tom Quinn still here? I loves me some Coach Clawfin. NY Football Giants 2012 Super FN Bowl Champions!!!!!!
Farking Iceholes
The Possimpible - Where the possible and impossible meet - Barney Stinson
Big Blue View - Supporting the Catalina Wine Mixer since 2011
The Giants don't do that though
It’s not purely BPA. It’s like
1. BPA out of a WR, DB or defensive lineman
2. Same as round 1
3. BPA
4. BPA
5. BPA
6. BPA
7. Special teamer
by The Cole Train on Feb 15, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure I agree with that.
They just go with whoever was available. I fully believe the Giants were targeting Solder, Castonzo and Pouncey last year. Reese and Marc Ross admitted it was a massive surprise that Prince was available, they couldn’t justify taking anyone else.
Same reasoning a couple years ago. They sent an entire battalion to Alabama’s pro-day, Jerry Reese included, to look at Rolando McClain. They came to the conclusion that JPP was a top 5 pick in their eyes, so they picked him.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 15, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with that...
Our draft board isnt everyone elses draft board.. Remember we are one of the handful of teams that rely on scouts, and not a talent finding company…
I fully agree they do their best Mock Draft and target players they believe that will be available.
Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.
Rd 7
That is where Bradshaw was picked. Can find value there, not just a special teamer.
Husker/Giants/Mets fan living behind enemy lines.
I agree..except no defensive pick please..OL TE and RB...
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
What if a Prince type player LB falls to us
gotta do it right?
No one in their wildest dreams thought the Prince would be there at 19 and then all of a sudden
It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
There is no such type in this year's draft.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 15, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Devil's Advocate here
there are no first round worthy LB’s out there.
I don’t pay too much attn to the draft stock of players but that seems a bit unlikely
It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
there' 3 or 4 LBs that are first round worthy
by The Cole Train on Feb 15, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
First round worthy, but not top 10 or 15 worthy. Kuechly maybe, but we don't value ILB
that highly in our schemes. I’d take him with the 32nd pick no doubt. Zach Brown is a great athlete, but he’d be best suited to WILL. We have Boley and Jacquain there as well.
I don’t consider Burfict or Hightower 1st rounders, but those two are controversial anyway lol
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 15, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Brown might be top 15.
But that’s it. Eagles might reach for Luke at 15. I liek Vontaze but I wouldn’t draft him above 20th. Hightower gets a lot of flack but until the combine he’s a 2nd to me.
by The Cole Train on Feb 15, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
I really loathe Burfict as a prospect after this past year. If you asked me last year, I would've given
my right testicle to get Burfict. Not this year. Kuechly is worth the 15th pick IMO, but only for a team sorely lacking a MIKE. Brown has some deficiencies, but he’s an athletic freak.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 15, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
The good news is you really don't have to spend a #1 at any of these positions.
Nothing wrong with trading down and getting one of each in Round 2 if eveyone is freaked out by drafting OL in 1st Round (although that nice SB win makes our 1st Rounder closer to a 2nd Rounder anyway).
The key is to not reach too much for your position of need. Trading down to match pick to value can help you address need as well.
Nothing wrong with the pass blocking
RBs were in bad shape due to injuries, age, and line rebuild. Plenty of young OL reserves waiting to start(beatty, Petrus, Boothe etc.). No I just do not see making a panic draft at OL in one. BPA.
Giants have many needs....
I am of the school that says you draft the best player available when your time to pick comes around. So, if your draft board has the highest grade posted on a particular OL, then that is who you pick. If a TE is rated higher, you pick the TE. You don’t reach for a player simply because you need a player at a particular position. That is what the JETS do. Be patient. Be smart. That is the Jerry Reese way.
Yep, this is pretty much what they'll do...
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
Just slap yhat dude
Why is Tom Quinn still here? I loves me some Coach Clawfin. NY Football Giants 2012 Super FN Bowl Champions!!!!!!
i am the one that asks that question that why are Giants have 32nd pick. Answer is because they won the Superbowl. This just sounds so good so that is why i ask that lol.
This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.
New Idea
Trade Osi and/or Jacobs for an offensive lineman and draft a pass rusher in the first round. (Not that it ever works out that nicely, but it would be cool if it happened.)
huh?
You do realize that player for player swaps, let alone a package of players for players pretty much never happens in the NFL. Do you have a specific team and/or OLman in line, or are you just tossing stuff against the wall?
Yes, as I said in the post, I'm aware that it almost never happens.
The draft is over 2 months away and I’m tossing an interesting idea out there. Its very unlikely, but both players are under contract, so it could happen, and it would be fun if it did. Also, it doesn’t have to be player for player, we could trade one or both for picks and then trade the picks to another team for an o-lineman. I’m not sure if Jacobs is worth anything, but I would bet Osi is worth a 3rd round pick.
well
yeah, I can’t see anyone trading a pick for BJ, not without a reworked contract. I disagree that Osi is worth a 3rd, I think he’s at least a 2 & 5 (the price paid for Shockey, just as a point of reference). I’d love for St. Louis to cough up #34 for him, I’d take that trade, though I still hope Osi (and BJ) are with us next year.
As for your scenario, I just don’t know who you would even target as a trade partner… For those two, I’d accept nothing less than a probowl OL…
Draft for long term - use free agents for need
Pick the best player available. Few rookies have an impact in their first year. Especially those drafted after the first 10
When the Giants drafted LT, the experts said the last thing they need is another linebacker. JPP? Another DL?
Build the future of your team with draft picks – fill your immediate needs with free agency
Problem This Year
is the cap. We most likely can’t sign any free agents.
Hopefully we end up in an area where need and value intersect – Dwayne Allen would be an example. He could probably step in and start as a rookie.
by Pink Flamingo on Feb 15, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
what about trading the pick for possible 2nd 3rd and 4th
patriots---mark sanchez is the greatest--keep him
jets--we're getting peyton to kick ur butts
giants---dont worry little step-brother we'll protect you from them big bad pats
I Suspect
we’ll be playing a bit of the trading up/down game. We’ve got 9 picks this year.
by Pink Flamingo on Feb 15, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Dave Diehl
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Dave Diehl cut. He taking up $4M in cap space next year and that’s not in line with his performance. Heck, he’s getting paid more than Osi. If he stays its going to have be at renegotiated contract.
by JohnBigboote on Feb 15, 2012 5:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Love his heart, but probably time to join O’Hara, Seubert, and McKenzie in retirement.
A lot depends on what the staff privately thinks of Petrus and Brewer. Keeping Diehl may mean there’s not enough confidence in the youngsters yet.
by Pink Flamingo on Feb 15, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Never
Not in a MILLION years.
The one thing the Giants have proven is that they LOVE Diehl.
He never gets hurt, Tom Coughlin loves that above all else. They will find any excuse to play him and at the very least he backs up both tackles and guard positions.
I will add
That although PFF and this board beats him to death….
The Giants won not ONE, but TWO superbowls with him at LT. And Eli has not been under much duress compared to other qbs…..
They won the first one with big contributions from Diehl.
They one the second one despite his contributions.
And I feel terrible saying that. I respect him greatly and will always remember him as a great Giant.
But when I’ve got my GM hat on, I do not see how this team can possible expect to get $4 million worth of OL production from him in 2012.
If the Giants expect to come anywhere near signing the free agents they actually want to keep at reasonable prices, as well as fill in the holes they have at starting OL and TE, he will get cut. Jacobs too.
Maybe
I love him too, and what he has done, but for him to be back, I think it will have to be at a renegotiated price. They can’t spend $4M for a back up RT/RG He’s done at LT, even if Beatty goes down again. CAP situation is too tight. Cannot carry a $4M back up o-linemen. people were surprised when Seibert and O’hara were cut too. Its just the reality of the CAP.
by JohnBigboote on Feb 16, 2012 2:14 AM EST up reply actions
9 picks this year
I still think Reese will stay put with all of his picks. We know he doesn’t like to move around too much. The only time I can remember him trading off the top of my head was to move up in the 3rd, taking Philly’s pick to draft Ramses Barden. Not one of his shining moments.
Do Recall
how his mentor, Ernie Accorsi, moved up that one time, to take that one guy… :)
by Pink Flamingo on Feb 15, 2012 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
Leave it to Jerry.
The Giants year after year have great drafts. BPA other than QB.
By Jerry you mean both Jerries. Jerry reese will take care of things and Jerry Jones will screw up his things and help us in the long run to win . lol
This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.
I like TE Dwayne Allen, but...
since I am the genius who preferred Derrick Morgan to JPP, I defer to Jerry Reese.
Do the Giants need to spend a first rounder on a TE?
I mean the Giant TE position is a blocker we’re a 3 WR team, I think we could add a blocking TE for cheap in FA or lower in the draft, I say draft linemen and rebuild the Oline and a RB. Lets get the run game going a bit more in 2012, it’ll help ELi and the D.
"Thats Eli man cooler than the other side of the pillow" Mario Manningham after Super Bowl XLVI
Seems Like
the positions where we could really use a talent influx correspond to areas where we usually like to find guys in the middle to late rounds: OL and TE.
Not sure whether we try to move around, stay put, or what. Agreed with you on beefing up the run game and focusing on “controlling the line of scrimmage.” But I could just as easily see a surprise talent drop to us that doesn’t seem to make sense, but we have to take him because the value is too good to pass up. I could literally see any position except QB, P, or K going to us in Round 1.
by Pink Flamingo on Feb 15, 2012 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
Even if we get a TE he will need to be developed anyway and will not be an immediate contributor as a starter. We need TE free agency.
This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.
First Round Tight End
The last time we picked a Tight End in the First Round, he turned out to be quite a player. He also turned out to be a narcissistic lunatic that we had to let go, but it was good while it lasted!
P.S. He is available again in free agency but Ed’s doesn’t think its a good idea.
by JohnBigboote on Feb 16, 2012 2:17 AM EST up reply actions
We need good serviceable TEs at moment. The ones from draft will not be able to start and contribute full time right away.
This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.
I will be surprised if we go OL first...
For several reasons:
1) Diehl sucked, MacKenzie sucked, Baas sucked – AND WE WON THE SUPERBOWL
2) Face it, the Giants love Diehl. Nobody else does, but they do. He never gets hurt. They have had a thousand excuses to replace him, and have not.
3) Petrus will be a starter at guard. Beatty will be back, Boothe is good at every inside position.
4) The Giants arent going to put a rookie tackle in to protect Eli. They are not going draft a first rounder to sit.
5) All the blah blah about the running game was every bit as attributable to the absolutley HORRIBLE blocking by our TEs and the fact that our rbs were not healthy this year again. When they got healthier, the running got better. What does that say about line.
6) People that have been screaming and guaranteeing that we will take OL in the first for years. Face it, Reese will not do it. Just like he likes Diehl, he wont draft OL in the first. Their recent trend is defense.
I think the Giants will sign veterans FAs to shore up the line. Their draft pick will be either TE or defense……
Well the thing is T tends to be the only position that gets drafted in the first round
so if we pick up a G or Center I’d be shocked if it was in the first 3 unlesss a real stud falls. I can see them picking up a T in the first or second round other than that you’re right I doubt we’ll draft any other O-line position higher than 2nd round or maybe even 3rd round.
"Thats Eli man cooler than the other side of the pillow" Mario Manningham after Super Bowl XLVI
Well, you can use "AND WE WON THE SUPERBOWL" as a reason to not address any position ...
but my issue is how long does Eli stay upright and on the field if we don’t do better along the OL. We’re on borrowed time there I fear.
MOVES TO MAKE
I think it is time to TRADE OSI they can put MK back on the DL he is preety quick too. The Giants will never sign him long term for big money so they have no choice but to grab draft picks or a top need player. Let Ross, Rocky, Grant, McKenzie and Chase go sign Thomas and try to keep Mario they will have the $ with those players gone for replacements.
Osemele
Do any of you draftniks watch film? Or just read draft sites?
Osemele has the worst footwork of any highly rated OL, terrible. I would not touch him unless as a UDFA.
Baas was hurt all season, he will be much better next. He took out Wilfork on many plays in the super bowl as did Boothe.
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