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The Jerry Reese Game! v2012


Hey there, just wanted to take some time out and look at our salary cap situation. Understanding the salary cap can give us fans a more realistic idea about how much we can spend and who we can go after. I think it also gives us a greater appreciation for Jerry Reese and the rest of the front office financial wizards that can twist and manipulate the dollar like the best of them.

I did a post just like this for last year. It's here if you'd like to check it out: Salary Cap Game 2011

Star-divide

As a quick recap of how I did from last year...well, not too shabby. I projected that the Giants, before addressing their free agents, would have a salary of $117,000,000. After all was said and done, they ended up with a cap number that year (including prorated bonuses) to about 117,500,000 by restructuring contracts and such. No doubt they will be able to do the same this year, but that is way too hard to project.

I also projected that they would spend about $6,000,000 is signing new free agents. They did spend approximately $6,200,000 on new free agents, so basically I'm awesome.

In any case, lets get to what we all care about: this offseason. Unfortunately, Giants fans, it will not be a pretty one.

THE SALARY CAP AND OUR SITUATION

According to this site the salary cap for the new year is going to be anywhere between $121-125 million dollars. Last year's cap was $123,000,000, and the cap almost never goes down. Therefore let's project the 2012-2013 cap number to be an even $124,000,000. Not too bad, right? After all, our cap hit last year was $117,500,000. It's a little tight, sure, but we can make do! Not so fast.

Remember to make cap room this past offseason, Jerry "restructured" a few contracts for Baas? Yeah, that's cause he knew we'd be in cap hell the next year. Some dudes are gettin' PAID this year. Our salary cap this year is: $124,736,000. Cripes, we have a boatload of free agents and we're starting off in the red already. Hey, at least we aren't the Dallas Cowboys, who start off with $129,000,000...or worse, the Pittsburgh Steelers who start off with almost $150,000,000. Forget about them signing their own free agents, nevermind getting any new ones.

Okay, so lets look at salaries and cap hits. I got all my numbers from this site.

From this cap hit site, it states that our total cap hit is close to $117,500,000. I'm not sure who to believe, but as my Pops says, "You can only be the best if you prepare for the worst." It'd be a lot easier to use the $117 million figure because we'd start off under the cap, but considering that Jerry Reese just barely fit into the cap last year, I'd say our figure is closer to the $125,000,000, so we should prepare for the worst case scenario.

THE MOCK DRAFT

I decided to do a mock draft because the players you draft determine who you keep and who you do away with. Of course, in your version of the Jerry Reese Game, you could draft somebody else, and that'd of course influence who we cut and who we keep. I kept my mock in true Jerry Reese BPA-style. I based my picks off two separate posts analyzing Reese's draft style: the first being a post I wrote last year which you can find here and also a post written by the great, if sometimes mysterious, poster ct17 which you can find here.

1) Dwayne Allen, TE Clemson. Prototypical height/weight. Very good strength and I would guess above average speed. What sets him apart is that he's a strong blocker AND pass catcher. Started as an in-line blocker, but Clemson decided to make him a bigger part of the offense. He is a polished route runner, and has probably the best body control (that is, catching the ball at its apex, boxing out defenders and fighting for the ball). His combine should determine whether he'd be BPA based on his speed drills, but I'd have no problems taking him in the first. We have a strong ACC scouting presence (see our players from BC and UNC), and Clemson is right in that wheelhouse. He fits my criteria of being a skill position player and coming from a big program, and fits mine and ct17's criteria for having the size/speed/character triad that the Giants look for in the first.

2) Bobby Massie, OT Mississippi. If Massie were available at pick #64, he would be strong value. He's a big guy, 6'6 325 lbs, and is strictly a RT at the NFL level. He's got decent footwork, has a little bit of a problem with his bend...can be a bit too upright at times, but that's coachable, especially with the OL coach that we have. I like his pass protection skills a little more than his run blocking, but with his frame, he has all the potential in the world, especially in a power blocking scheme like ours.

3) Brandon Taylor, FS LSU. I think this guy is very highly underrated. It would certainly be nice if we picked him up in the 3rd round. I have him rated as my 2nd best safety in the draft, right behind Mark Barron. I can see a couple guys like Harrison Smith and George Iloka going ahead of him though. He's got good height, 6'0, but could stand to bulk up a little bit at 200 lbs. He's a ballhawk and reminds me of, well, Antrel Rolle. Got underrated speed, and while he isn't a highlight reel hitter, he can track down the ball well. You may remember him in the first LSU-Alabama game where he had the ridiculous INT in the redzone.

4) Bernard Pierce, RB Temple. Another underrated player in my eyes, Pierce is another player with a good height/weight/speed combination at 6'0, 220 lbs and as a former track star could run a 4.5. He's strictly a power back that can play the role of the downhill, gritty inside-the-numbers explosive type back. He is a willing and able pass blocker, and has strong vision and awareness. He'll go somewhat late simply because of the depth at the RB pool, with Trent Richardson, Lamar Miller, David Wilson, Doug Martin, Chris Polk, LaMichael James, and Isaiah Pead all probably going before him.

5) Donte Paige-Moss, DE UNC. Before this season, he was a top 15 pick. He had a terrible year, demoted to 2nd string at some points. So why take him? A couple of reasons. Like I said before, we have a strong scouting presence in the ACC. We will have done our homework. He's also an athlete. Physically gifted. He's somewhat undersized at 6'4 260 lbs, but not terribly so for a RDE. His problem was his motor. He had an extraordinary first step two years ago, but seemingly lost it last year. I attribute it to a motor problem. Finally, and probably the most important attribute....he's a goddamned pass rusher. If we draft him, we should be convinced that he's motivated. He'll learn from the best, Osi and Kiwi as the primary RDEs, with Tuck and JPP at LDE. He'll contribute on STs as well. There was a similar problem with another pass rusher a couple years ago, talented but had a terrible motor. His name was Carlos Dunlap. Yeah, I'd say it worked out for the Bengals.

5) (Compensatory) Greg Childs, WR Arkansas. All about upside here. He's got a good height/weight/speed at 6'4 215 4.5. He had two really good years before tearing his ACL in 2010. Never the same, he was in and out of the lineup for the Razorbacks with injury, and only had 20 some odd catches. At one point, not very long ago, he was on the watch list for the Biletnikoff awards, and if his ACL is fully healed, he might still have some of that magic. He'd at least contribute on ST, and would be a real redzone target if Ramses doesn't pan out.

6) George Bryan, TE NC State. Solid blocker, decent pass catcher. 6'5 265. Reminds me of Ballard a little bit to be honest. Expected to run close to 4.85-4.9, so OK speed. Should contribute on ST and as a blocking TE.

7) Cliff Harris, CB Oregon. Talented, but got kicked off the team. Major, major red flags. Might scare teams off. Could go anywhere from the 3rd round to undrafted based on how teams weight potential versus character. Giants pick up a steal here, but its probably not realistic that he falls to us. It's okay though, I'm allowed to dream a little bit.

I know what you're thinking....NO LBzez! I'm quite happy with the group that we have already. More on that later.

DRAFT PICK SALARY CAP HIT

Based on the new CBA, it showed me that the first round pick got a signing bonus, but the rest of the team had about $375,000 in salary each. Based on what we have, I think it's safe to say 2 of our 8 draft picks here probably don't make the roster and go to the practice squad (thinking Cliff Harris and Greg Childs). Adding in Dwayne Allen's $1,000,000 cap hit for his signing bonus, the salary cap hit we can estimate for our new Giants would be approximately: $3,250,000.

That now makes, as of right now, our salary cap close to $127,986,000.

POTENTIAL CUTS/TRADES

Okay, so our situation isn't look great, but isn't as terrible as we once thought. We have about $4,000,000 to cut to break even. After that, we can start addressing our own free agents. Using the very helpful site that I linked to above, we have our 2012 cap hits (bonuses included, and rounded because I hate math):

Antrel Rolle - $9,100,000

Chris Canty - $7,700,000

Brandon Jacobs - $6,870,000

Osi Umenyiora - $4,617,857

David Diehl - $3,825,000

Ramses Barden - $1,500,000

Clint Sintim - $1,125,000

Danny Ware - $1,005,000

Travis Beckum - $720,000

Spencer Paysinger - $465,000

Jim Cordle - $465,000

Mark Herzlich - $465,000

Greg Jones - $465,000

Those are all the players that I think are under consideration for getting cut. Out of these, with the addition of Bernard Pierce in my mock draft, the easiest cut to make would be Brandon Jacobs. I think a close to $7,000,000 cap hit for a change of pace RB that wasn't terribly effective is beyond ridiculous. Doesn't make any fiscal sense. I think Clint Sintim unfortunately is also another player that is probably gone. 2 ACL surgeries in 2 years does not bode well for a LB. We also have multiple candidates at the LB position, so I think he's gone as well. Travis Beckum, we can count out for now because he'll probably end up on IR with the addition of Dwayne Allen and the inclusion of George Bryan to go along with Bear Pascoe. I think we end up putting Ballard on PUP, meanwhile. So we don't count Beckum's cap hit.

I think with the emergence of Jacquian Williams, I think that Paysinger is also a goner. We are stacked at WILL with Boley and Williams. Herzlich can play all 3 spots, so I think he stays. I also think Greg Jones stays because I think he can play MIKE and SAM. Danny Ware (or D.J Ware, whatever) stick around. He's highly underrated as a 3rd down back and as a pass catcher. Ahmad is injury prone as well, and our history shows us keep at least 4-5 backs. Ramses doesn't have a terrible cap hit, and could prove useful, so he stays.

Now we come to the big boys: Antrel Rolle, Chris Canty, and David Diehl. Let me be the first to say that I think Canty stays. He's got a big cap number, no doubt, but I don't think we retain Rocky Bernard and Jimmy Kennedy. We retain Linval Joseph and an unproven Marvin Austin, so 3 DTs is a must. Antrel Rolle is a close second-to-last in terms of performance versus value, just behind Brandon Jacobs. I still believe that he can be an impact player, and I don't think that Tyler Sash is there yet. Tom Coughlin also hates playing rookies, so I think Rolle is gone after next year, not next year. David Diehl is also difficult because of the relative youth of our OL. Coughlin almost always redshirts OL, so that's a no-go for Massie, and I don't think Coughlin will give Brewer the starting RT job. Diehl stays as well, unfortunately.

Think Osi right now is a great value for his performance. We will probably listen to trade offers, but based on his value as a 3rd round compensatory pick in the future (most likely), I don't think we trade him for anything lower than a very early 2nd round pick. That probably doesn't happen so we keep that vicious rotation. Based on our cap situation, I don't think we extend him this year if we do plan on giving him an extension. So he remains the same here.

Therefore, a quick recap has us cutting Brandon Jacobs, Clint Sintim, Spencer Paysinger and putting Beckum on IR. That saves us $9,180,000. That brings our salary cap to $118,806,000. Finally, some breathing room!

FREE AGENTS

Here is ProFootballFocus's Free Agent Tracker which I used as my guide to who was available.

I think everyone wants to bring back Terrell Thomas. From what I've been hearing from Twitter, it will be a contract similar to Mathias Kiwanuka's. A short-term deal, wait-and-see deal. Probably 2 years. I'd guesstimate a fair deal to be 2 years/$4,500,000. Giants LOVE to backload contracts, so this is what I'll do.

Year 1: $1,250,000

Year 2: $3,250,000

I also think everyone wants to bring back Jonathon Goff. He'll also get the same sort of deal as Thomas. I'd wager a fair deal for him would be 2 years/$3,500,000

Year 1: $1,000,000

Year 2: $2,500,000

Steve Weatherford will also obviously be back. He made $800K last year, but I'm guessing he wants a raise. Probably put him down for something like this: 4 years/$7,250,000

Year 1: $1,100,000

Won't bother going into the rest of the contract details for this one.

Jake Ballard is a restricted free agent going on PUP, so unless I'm mistaken, we don't have to worry about signing him till later.

I'd bring back Chase Blackburn, Dave Tollefson, Bear Pascoe, Devin Thomas, and Justin Tryon along with some other depth (players like Derrick Martin, Domenik Hixon). I don't anticipate any of these players asking for above $800,000 and some of them are minimum-wage guys. That comes out to approximately be $3,800,000

Unfortunately, I don't see Deon Grant, Rocky Bernard, Kareem McKenzie, Mario Manningham, and Aaron Ross back. Too expensive. The free agency market is very, very heavy at WR. I don't think we're going to be shoppers for Mario Manningham, Vincent Jackson, Wes Welker, Desean Jackson, Marques Colston, etc.

There aren't very many good tackles available. One did intrigue me, Demetrius Bell. If he took close to $3,500,000 a year (he wouldn't), we could cut David Diehl and get a massive upgrade. I hear he's looking for a long term deal though, and that wouldn't make sense if we spent a 4th round pick last year and a 2nd round pick (like I did in my mock) to give someone $7 million over a number of years. I also found no real cheap upgrades to Antrel Rolle either, and while it is extremely expensive, I believe the year after next, if we draft someone like Brandon Taylor or with Tyler Sash, we'll have someone ready within our organization to step up next to Kenny Phillips, and we can get rid of Rolle. Same with Canty.

So no new free agents for us this year. Adding up what our own free agents would cost us would bring our cap to $125,956,000. The NFL gives teams provisions to extend their salary cap by $2,000,000 if needed to extend their OWN free agents, which is what we did, so our realistic salary cap was $126,000,000 because of that clause. Therefore, we snuck right in there! I'm sure Jerry Reese can free up at least another $2-3 million by restructuring contracts, but I'd rather not for this year to maintain flexibility to extend Osi and Cruz next year.

So there you have it folks! We were successfully able to bring back Terrell Thomas, Jonathon Goff, and Steve Weatherford. We lost Manningham, Jacobs and McKenzie, but were able to keep the nucleus of the Super Bowl winning team together. We drafted talented, smart, athletic players that will surely contribute this year and the future.

Your turn! What do you think of the way I played the Jerry Reese game? What would you differently? Any other FA ideas?

FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.

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awesome work

I like your choices, and agree it’s hard to see us keeping Ham and Ross.

Couldn’t tell (because i didn’t have time to do the math)…..in calculating cap savings by cutting BJ, did you consider the pro-rated signing bonus that goes against our cap number, even if he isn’t on the team? For example, i saw yesterday an article (I think on Nat’l Football Post) that explained that if the Colts don’t exercise their option on Peyton, the cap hit is still $10MM.

by NorthwestFan on Feb 10, 2012 1:37 PM EST reply actions  

Yup, I did. It's difficult to prorate bonuses because that requires one to go find contract information, including bonuses and non-guaranteed portions

for each year of the contract. I couldn’t find access to that information. I tried to last year, and I made some headway….but I’m assuming the prorated bonus cap hit to be around $1-2 million for Jacobs, and much less (if anything) for the rest of the guys we cut. I decided to keep it out because its too much work to find all that stuff and calculate for everybody. I’d assume an error margin of probably $1.5-2 million dollars, so that’s not really a huge deal. Reese restructures contracts to account for this anyway, converting salaries of players he won’t cut into signing bonuses and paying out that same year to avoid the cap hit later on.

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 10, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

$2.5 million for Jacobs

Spotrac has it if you use the full version, not the mobile version.

My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.

2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA

by ct17 on Feb 11, 2012 7:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Sorry $2 mil

I hate doing this kind of work, you get different information from different sites. Whatever I used originally included the roster bonus, which voids if cut before.

My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.

2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA

by ct17 on Feb 11, 2012 7:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't see Quinton Couples

so I don’t know how this is the Reese game, lol.

by The Cole Train on Feb 10, 2012 2:23 PM EST reply actions  

ha!

We have his teammate though. Don’t think I didn’t get out of this without a pass rusher with upside lol

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 10, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

BPV as usual you did great work

I have nothing to add

New York Giants 2011 Super Bowl Champions = FACT
The NFL will now FEAR THE LOWERCASE ny

by The Always Well Dressed... on Feb 10, 2012 2:32 PM EST reply actions  

My bad BPI*

New York Giants 2011 Super Bowl Champions = FACT
The NFL will now FEAR THE LOWERCASE ny

by The Always Well Dressed... on Feb 10, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

That's hot

Ochocinco could have saved a ton of money if he didn't buy his team mates "Beats by Dre" because they all ended up getting "Beat by Giants"...FOR FREE!!

by nywins46 on Feb 10, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

lol thanks

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 10, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

you still messed up

Nets Mets Giants All day Every day.
Beware the Lopez
NY Giants Tribute

by netsareboss on Feb 11, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

It is on internet so it is true

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 10, 2012 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Great stuff

I always wish there was an “official” site for these numbers, since it seems like there’s either newspaper sites that just give you the one overall cap number, or sites like Spotrac or Rotoworld that give you the individual numbers that don’t add up to the cap number on the other site.

One thing we also might need to keep in mind here is young guys looking for raises. Cruz is already going with public with looking for a new contract. I had hoped to get something figured out for him a little ways down the road, because I want to see him have more than just one year like this, but that might not be possible.

Going off Spotrac’s numbers, I got the same number you did, and I cut Jacobs and trade Osi to get it down to about $109 million. I’m assuming that, by trading Osi, we won’t have any cap hit, since there’s no guaranteed money left in his contract. I also had originally planned on cutting Diehl, but if they want to keep him as a stopgap RT or something, then I can’t do that, but I would like to see him restructure his deal. He’s simply not good enough to warrant $8 million over the next two years.

"The good teams don't come in and say 'could have.' They get it done."

by BigBlue21 on Feb 10, 2012 2:48 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah....I tried using rotoworld last year, but its too much work to go off and look for all this stuff.

Spotrac gave everything to me nice and easy.

Cruz will not be a UFA after next year. He’ll be a RFA, so he’d still be stuck with us if we make him a better offer than anybody else. It doesn’t look like going by what he’s saying that he’ll hold out. We have enough flexibility (if we sacrifice one of the “big 3” as I call them – Diehl, Rolle, or Canty" to extend him this year if we wanted to.

As for Osi, you’d be correct…no cap hit. I’d keep him because I assumed we wouldn’t get a good enough offer. His cap number at $4 mill is manageable.

I looked at Diehl the same way, stopgap RT for my draft. Of course, you could grab a FA stopgap for cheaper and cut Diehl, but I didn’t go that route. In my scenario, I’m definitely cutting Diehl after next year if Brewer or Massie are ready.

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 10, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Cruz?

No luv for Cruz in all of this.

Also, looking at your logic, I can see, no $ for Osi & his preseason pout

by kayess on Feb 10, 2012 2:50 PM EST reply actions  

see right above for my reasoning on Cruz.

And yeah, Osi’s going to have to suck it up and play if he wants a good contract from someone. His cap number ain’t terrible, so if he ain’t playin’, he’s only really hurting himself…and Reese will let him know that. If Osi wants a good contract after the Giants, he needs to play great and stay healthy.

Sounds like a dbag move, cause it is…but that’s the business of it. Happens all the time.

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 10, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Cruz Control!!!

I dont know what the cap situation is in 2013, 2014 etc, but here is another way of looking at it.
Cruz seems like a heads-up, hardworking dude. So even if you assume that he has the same ratio of dropped passes to caught ones, plus give him 3 games (that he missed) for a full season, plus (minus, actually) throw in several games with double teams, he still has a shot at 1200-1500 rec yards in 2012. 2 bac-2-bac seasons with 1000+ yds & you are looking at 5 – 7 mil per year, if you negotaite a contract at the end of 2012. Reese may want to (Cruz) control the situation by giving him 2-3 yrs at 2-4 mil in 2012….if he isnt upto expectations then cut/renogiate, but lock him in for the next few at below market.

Just another wrinkle in the Reese calculus

by kayess on Feb 10, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

BOOM!

Take THAT inferior FanPosts!!!

I feel like saying “good stuff” would be an insult.

Ochocinco could have saved a ton of money if he didn't buy his team mates "Beats by Dre" because they all ended up getting "Beat by Giants"...FOR FREE!!

by nywins46 on Feb 10, 2012 2:50 PM EST reply actions  

LOL thanks wins

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 10, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Hixon & Barden

Beckum banished to IR, Sintim cut. How would you justify keeping Hixon? If JJ & DaRel can cover KO, and maybe PR, do you need both Hixon & Barden, in addition to Devon Thomas? (assuming Manningham is no longer a Giant)

Of Hixon & Barden – I would prefer Barden – younger, more upside; versus dynamic performance 4 yrs ago, then 3 yrs of IR

by kayess on Feb 10, 2012 2:59 PM EST reply actions  

Hixon is cheap. Probably vet min.

He can go too, if it ends up being too expensive. I wouldn’t mind giving this guy a shot….especially as a PR where he was pretty awesome some time ago.

I’ll admit that I haven’t come up with the full 53 man roster, so depending on how it would work out….

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 10, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

It is a tough to figure if Hixon will be with us or not.

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 17, 2012 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

ok done

nice read BBI and i really cant complain about anything there. love the Dwayne Allen pick of course. Cruz and Osi will probably be not too happy with this, but hey, they signed the contract

by Plaxico Burress on Feb 10, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha thanks Plax

Cruz and Osi won’t be too happy…but stuff like Cruz happens all the time. Its never usually a big deal. Above, I detailed that Reese could restructure a few contracts and get rid of Diehl, Rolle, or Canty and we’d have enough room to extend Cruz.

As for Osi, he’ll have to play it out to get to free agency. Tough poo, but that’s life.

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 10, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Great Job!

no matter what nywins46 says… I think you are an excellent poster… lol

Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.

by Skii31 on Feb 10, 2012 3:28 PM EST reply actions  

heh thanks Ski

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 10, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah I'd definitely be happy with that

I’d like to see Diehl out of here, only because it’s hard to believe there isn’t something more productive to be done with that money. Like anything. At all.

by dannymac56 on Feb 10, 2012 3:45 PM EST reply actions  

im with you

Ugoh and Brewer cant be any worse then Double D. and at 3.8 mill. see ya… Hes JAG and im sure we have/can find JAG someplace else.

This would allow us to sweeten the pot for Cruz and who ever, if need be .. good faith and all… or maybe another Safety.Not all that confident with Sash as the 3rd S and I have Know Idea about C Jones status.. I love the 3 Safety look with all the high power Os we will again be seeing this yr.

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

Finally we get to see J Lin!!! Giant LB'zz

by Troy O on Feb 10, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Diehl

I think Diehl gets negotiated down (after a threatened cut). Prolly time to Rocky Bernardize him….grateful for him playin with a busted hand…but that’s when the numbers hit the fan

by kayess on Feb 10, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha I figured. I really wanted to get rid of Diehl too. Thing is, everybody else except Jared Gaither and Demetrius Bell

suck just as bad. Gaither is better suited to LT, so Bell is the only one. He’d be costly though. And we’d need a RT as a stopgap. I don’t have faith in Carpenter or (in my mock) Massie as a rookie.

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 10, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 17, 2012 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

OUTSTANDING WORK!!!

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

Finally we get to see J Lin!!! Giant LB'zz

by Troy O on Feb 10, 2012 4:05 PM EST reply actions  

thanks troy

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 10, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

BBI, did it again love this post

I’m hoping we get rid of Ware too, If we draft a RB, we got AB and D. Scott as well as Brown, who in my opinion out performed Ware in the preformed Ware this past pre-season

Respect all fear none.

by Late for Dinner on Feb 10, 2012 4:18 PM EST reply actions  

Brown out performed all the backs this past pre season...

i would think Ware’s all around game (catching,blocking and running) is well worth the 1 mill.

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

Finally we get to see J Lin!!! Giant LB'zz

by Troy O on Feb 10, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

ppreciate it, brother.

I think Ware did pretty well. Definitely the go-to guy in the screen game. He whiffed on a block in the SB, but he did well in pass protection throughout the year as well. We might swap him out Andre Brown, who knows…

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 10, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay guys let's not get carried away here

Ware made like 2 plays, other than that he would catch the screen and run right to a guy and get tackled 27 Rec. 170 yards 0 TD’s.

Since knowing the blocking assignments is somthing only the coaches and Eli would know for sure, I’ll give Ware the benefit of the doubt he was a better blocker than Brown, But the guy was a turrible RB, I got a problem paying a guy 1 mil for 46 attempts and 163 yards with 0 Rushing TD’s Someone has got to be able to replace that little bit of production

Respect all fear none.

by Late for Dinner on Feb 10, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Well being he only get 2-4 touches a game (on running plays)

Its not fare to tally up his stats like that.. A better question would be has he been better of worse then the guys we have back there now? He is no worse ill tell u that.

Plus he looks 100 time better then Scott did this ys . i know he didnt get alot of touches but Scotts vision is highly in question ..IMO.

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

Finally we get to see J Lin!!! Giant LB'zz

by Troy O on Feb 10, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Sad but true

Look as far as I am concerned we definitly need to draft a rb, but is Ware really worth 1 Mil? I’d rarther be able to pay Osi a few more bucks than have Ware, we got to upgrade if that’s the best we got behind AB.

Respect all fear none.

by Late for Dinner on Feb 10, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

who else would we get for less who is better though?

Ware has an all-around game, and we will need him big-time if Jacobs is gone. Bradshaw cannot carry a full load, he has shown that every season.

Go Giants!
Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

by rich316 on Feb 11, 2012 1:48 AM EST up reply actions  

What all around game are you talking about, dude made like 2 maybe 3 plays

He can catch the ball and obviously knows the blocking scheme is about all you can say about him. We got to draft someone to replace him, because he is a liability.

Respect all fear none.

by Late for Dinner on Feb 12, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't see how you can dismiss a guy who has shown that he can do things with very limited snaps

He is 3rd on the depth chart, and despite that has had some nice plays. There was the 17-yard sweep where he took out Coughlin, he caught 22 balls for 6.6 yards per catch, and he had a few big 2-point conversions. Yeah his average is only 3.5 yards per carry, but did AB or BJ do much better? 3.9 for AB, 3.8 for BJ. Running backs always say that getting into a rhythm is important to making plays, and he was never given that chance. Yeah there are a lot of backs who are better than him, but he costs 1 million. Who is out there that a) is more talented than him and b) knows the giants blocking schemes/playbook for less money?

Go Giants!
Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

by rich316 on Feb 13, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

You just named the only two plays I remember DJ making

Other than that I remember him running right to the tackler and going down for a yard or two, maybe 5 if he was wide open.

All I am saying is I would rather see what Scott or Andre bring to the table and save a few bucks than bring back Ware. who is the definition of a JAG.

Respect all fear none.

by Late for Dinner on Feb 14, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Good work

What do you like better Free Agency before draft or after?

I like it after I think. That way in the draft it’s easier to stick to BPA because you can say well we’ll figure it out in FA. When FA happens first sometimes you might get in a bind.

Oh well.

My guesses:

Jacobs is cut
Barden is cut
Ware is Cut

Either Jon Goff or Terrel Thomas is resigned. I don’t think both, my money is on Thomas.

I also think the Giants will bring back David Carr and maybe Justin Tyron the rest though might all be gone.

You can see all of my thoughs on this and what I think the Giants needs are:

http://nflmocks.com/2012/02/10/new-york-giants-positional-needs-update/

The main reason I think is that over the next couple of years they have to pay

JPP
Cruz
Nicks
Beatty

All of these players play expensive positions.

I’m sure Reese will do a terrific job however he does it.

What surprises me is in one of those links with the projected room the Bills have almost no cap room?

Who are they spending their money on? They have almost no impact players

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me." Dudley Field Malone

Editor at nflmocks.com, contributor a newyork.sbnation.com

by Jesse Bartolis on Feb 10, 2012 4:49 PM EST reply actions  

Nice.

I agree with you, I’d rather the draft come before FA for the same reasons you think. The Bills are idiots. They overpaid Fitzpatrick, plus have big contracts in the secondary.

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 10, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I dont see JR cutting Rams.

i think he gets 1 more yr.

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

Finally we get to see J Lin!!! Giant LB'zz

by Troy O on Feb 10, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know about keeping my man Carr

He’s got a Super Bowl ring now, and will probably be asking for a big raise now that he is sporting that hardware.

by maraman on Feb 10, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

doubt it

He tried to go out and win a starting job and couldn’t. Should probably just stay with a system he’s familiar with

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me." Dudley Field Malone

Editor at nflmocks.com, contributor a newyork.sbnation.com

by Jesse Bartolis on Feb 10, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Who will he be asking for all that money?

You need a team interested to get a raise. I’m doubting that teams kick in his door

Eli is our King!

by trueblue63 on Feb 11, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Bobbie Massie

Draftinsider.net projects Massie right now as a 4th round prospect, wonder if Giants be able to snag him in late 3rd, that’d be pretty cool

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me." Dudley Field Malone

Editor at nflmocks.com, contributor a newyork.sbnation.com

by Jesse Bartolis on Feb 10, 2012 5:11 PM EST reply actions  

Wow, awesome job BBI, thanks for all the info!

I think we’ll see more restructures than cuts. I’m no cap-scholar, but I’d think guys can be reworked to lower their cap numbers. While I agree that it would be ridiculous to keep BJ at a $7mil cap hit, I’m very much in favor of keeping him. The only outright cuts I see on this list are Diehl and Ware. I would hope Canty and Rolle can be re-done to save a few mil on the cap hits. The minimum salary guys shouldn’t be in the conversation because you still have to have 53 and while Pays or Cordle could easily be camp cuts, they have to be replaced by others at the same price, so there’s no fiscal sense (for this argument here) in cutting any of the min $ guys.

While I don’t like it, I think Osi will be traded, and that would clear up that number. I think his snaps can be filled by Kiwi/Tolly/Tratou/Sintim/Tracy or some subset of that.

by TNYFBG on Feb 10, 2012 5:24 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks man....Canty and Rolle might be restructured, but that would put a massive strain on our cap for the next couple years.

I only cut some of the min cap guys to make room for our new draftees….haha

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 10, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Prob shouldn't ask an open ended question but

Would i bee crazy to think that Koats or Boothe can play C and say see ya to Baas?

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

Finally we get to see J Lin!!! Giant LB'zz

by Troy O on Feb 10, 2012 5:36 PM EST reply actions  

you're not crazy at all

but it’s not gonna happen… After seeing the job Baas did against Wilfork, I’m starting to think maybe more that he was just injured/new system and think he could be awesome for us in his 2nd season.

by TNYFBG on Feb 10, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

very true about Wilfork .. just hope we're not falling victim to the moment.

he was pretty bad otherwise , so i hope you’re right.

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

Finally we get to see J Lin!!! Giant LB'zz

by Troy O on Feb 10, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I think

consistently less worse than the previous game sums up Baas.

Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.

by Skii31 on Feb 10, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions  

meaning

he started at just plain turrible and ended up average.

Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.

by Skii31 on Feb 10, 2012 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

When was he last time we cut a guy a year after we signed him

Never?

I agree with you, a model has to take into acct what’s likely, not what you’d like.

Eli is our King!

by trueblue63 on Feb 10, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions  

And this is why we keep u around

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

Finally we get to see J Lin!!! Giant LB'zz

by Troy O on Feb 10, 2012 8:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Boley/Canty/Bernard

All three struggled first year they were here (partly due to injuries) and improved over time. It takes time to learn a new system expect Bass to be much better than he was last year in 2012

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me." Dudley Field Malone

Editor at nflmocks.com, contributor a newyork.sbnation.com

by Jesse Bartolis on Feb 10, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup

And hopefully healthy. Too many times people think certain players didn’t play well, usually it cause they are hurt. I’d like to know how your supposed to manhandle a strong athletic 300 pound dude when your not in top physical condition.

Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 6...

I'm down wit JPP
Yea you know me

Win Ugly.
-Eli Manning for MVP

by wangstu13 on Feb 11, 2012 5:06 AM EST up reply actions  

True

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 11, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

We only save $4.9mm if we cut Jacobs

The other $1.9mm is unamortized signing bonus which counts against our cap even if we cut him.

Something tells me that Jacobs takes whatever salary cut he has to stay on this team. I actually think that Diehl is a casualty, especially if we take an OL in Round One instead of a TE.

UR correct that Rolle and Canty can’t be touched, I think they both have guaranteed money left in addition to unamortized bonuses that would negate any cap savings. You could potentially get them to restructure, but at the very least you’d have to guarantee 2013, which JR won’t do.

Blue is the color of melancholy and honesty
Green is the color of inexperience, envy and nausea.

by roguetrader on Feb 10, 2012 6:24 PM EST reply actions  

i dont think canty has guaranteed money left.

atleast when i checked rotoworld he doesnt. Sadly, i think rolle does.

by NYG_Slater on Feb 10, 2012 7:07 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah. I addressed it above. There's going to be a margin of error of about 2 or 3 million dollars.

Restructuring of some of the funds offsets it, which I also didn’t account for….so mocking JUST this year, this will be somewhat accurate. I did the same last year, and it came close haha.

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 10, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Can't cut players expecting draft

Unless you’re cutting him after free agency and the draft.

Draft happens last so you cut players before free agency especially if you’re a classy organization like the Giants who wants to give players a chance to latch on somewhere else

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me." Dudley Field Malone

Editor at nflmocks.com, contributor a newyork.sbnation.com

by Jesse Bartolis on Feb 10, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Cuts often come before a roster bonus is due

Once its paid it’s on your cap

Eli is our King!

by trueblue63 on Feb 11, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

So that is why we will need to cut some players and very soon

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 17, 2012 12:15 AM EST up reply actions  

I won't pretend I understand any of this BBI

But thanks for explaining the comings and goings of football players in this era of free agency and salary caps. It sounds like you really need contract lawyers and CPA’s to figure this all out nowadays. The days of signing someone for 3,000.00 a season are long gone.

by maraman on Feb 10, 2012 7:39 PM EST reply actions  

Make that 300,000.00

IIRC, LT signed for 300k in 1981 and all the other linebackers on the team were going to boycott. And the papers said, let em.

by maraman on Feb 10, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Bottom line is the players are competing against each other for a fixed amount of money

At least on a team like the Giants.

Somebody like the Bengals, where the owner likes to pocket the last $10-$20 million a year, its a different story.

Blue is the color of melancholy and honesty
Green is the color of inexperience, envy and nausea.

by roguetrader on Feb 10, 2012 11:27 PM EST up reply actions  

the Cruz situation will decide much

If Cruz decide to make a stink, other players will be cut as a result.

I can’t imagine that the Giants will go into next season with a Cruz holdout. He is too valuable to the team, especially as MM will in all likelihood be gone. The fact that he has already gone public is not a good sign for the front office in that respect. They will talk to him this summer, and if he holds firm in his demands behind closed doors, it will signal the end of David Diehl’s career with the New York Football Giants.

Osi is interesting, because he actually lost a lot of leverage. He cannot hold out as easily as last year, because if he doesn’t play and show what he can still do he likely doesn’t get anywhere near the contract he wants at age 31, from any team. JPP’s emergence means the Giants have a lot more ability to let him hold out, too. I actually think he co-operates, and hopes that the Giants will give him a last contract at a decent price next offseason.

I agree Goff is likely gone. I can’t believe Rolle costs that much…it’s the price you pay for relying on free agents to fill needs. Chad Jones…your loss meant so much. He would have probably been ready to step in next to KP at this point.

Go Giants!
Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

by rich316 on Feb 11, 2012 1:42 AM EST reply actions  

I don't think Cruz will hold out. He doesn't have too much leverage. He had a great season

but Reese won’t budge…like he did with Osi, or with Bradshaw. We won’t overpay anybody.

Same with Osi. We’ll be in hell in 2013, so we just need to hold firm right now. For Rolle, that was the marketprice…he and Dansby both cost about the same. I really wish Chad Jones was healthy though…..sigh.

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 11, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree on all points.

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 11, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Why don't you think he has leverage?

Assuming Manningham is gone, his leverage is that the team will be crippled without him. Could you imagine the Giants rolling out to face the Pack on week 1 with Nicks and Ramses as our top 2 receivers?

Go Giants!
Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

by rich316 on Feb 11, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

FA is before the draft. Always can threaten to draft a new WR in the 1st (which is actually a legit possibility)

Also their leverage would be Nicks, along with continuity. I don’t think he’d hold out…look at Desean or VJax. There’s plenty of examples where holding out only hurts you. Reese will be sure to mention it.

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 11, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Cruz hasn't made that much money

The taxes and agents fee kills, and he has a new kid. He ain’t giving up a paycheck, NO WAY

In 09 we started with MM (who at the time was thought by many fans to be mentally retarded (cough racism cough)) and Smith who was a possession WR, that turned out OK

Eli is our King!

by trueblue63 on Feb 11, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions  

It will work out ok between Giants and Cruz this year.

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 17, 2012 12:16 AM EST up reply actions  

cruz has 0 leverage

Him holding out would be the dumbest thing. He needs to accrue more seasons before he can become a UFA. Holding out just delays that. I believe he only has 1 accrued NFL season. We get him next year, and can tender him in 2013. So ya. we have him for a while before we actually have to pay him.

by NYG_Slater on Feb 11, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Excellent work buddy

Im pretty sure JR is gonna throw us off Guard by drafting a DT first or second

by NYGFan777 on Feb 11, 2012 1:42 AM EST reply actions  

Just saw this...and I knew it was going to be lengthy

Have not started reading it quite yet, but when I saw a BBI fan post I got excited as hell.

Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 6...

I'm down wit JPP
Yea you know me

Win Ugly.
-Eli Manning for MVP

by wangstu13 on Feb 11, 2012 4:41 AM EST reply actions  

Hell yes man you do an excellent job

I always look forward to your posts and I am literally salivating waiting for your college recruits/draft type posts.

Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 6...

I'm down wit JPP
Yea you know me

Win Ugly.
-Eli Manning for MVP

by wangstu13 on Feb 11, 2012 5:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks a lot brother.

They’re comin’….can’t believe the Combine is only 12 days away! One of the benefits of being SB champs haha don’t have to start thinking draft till later.

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 11, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Great stuff BBI

My only issue is “the players you draft determine who you keep and who you do away with”.

While I agree that is true to some extent, free agency does start before the draft so some of those decisions will already have been made for JR. Luckily for us his last couple drafts have accounted for the potential FA losses we’re going to have.

Overall fantastic job, and I look forward to more of your contributions.

"The saddest thing in life is wasted talent"

by Larry Soprano on Feb 11, 2012 7:31 AM EST reply actions  

You are right, FA is supposed to come first....then the draft. For my sake, my train of thought went with the draft first

so that was a bit of a mistake in terms of thinking process lol

But thanks Larry. #fearthelowercaseny

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 11, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Get with the program lol

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 11, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Good job

I’ve been looking at these numbers myself. It’s been hard because I’ve been crying a lot. 2013 is going to be the rough year. It would also be nice if the friggin NFL or its teams would just report these numbers itself.

My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.

2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA

by ct17 on Feb 11, 2012 7:50 AM EST reply actions  

That’d make too much sense.

GIANTS! SB46 CHAMPS!

by Charles L on Feb 11, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks ct. Yeah, I looked up those numbers and checked on a different tab, and they gave the bonuses.

I’m still unsure if those bonuses are for just the year, or for the length of the contract. In any case, they would get canceled out most likely with JR restructuring contracts to pay them off later.

I’m also really, really scared about 2013. Major players entering FA that’ll want huge paydays. This year, all we can do is hold steady. No big contracts. Add on only a few players and hope this year’s draft class can have some sort of impact. Maybe extend Cruz or have a “fair” extension for Osi. But that’s it. We’re going on a firesale next year….this will be Rolle, Canty’s and Diehls last years if they survive this offseason.

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 11, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

spotrac is pretty good

The bonuses they list for each year seem to be the ones due that year, but they have some trouble with complicated deals or reworkings – Webster’s page is completely messed up.

Rolle has to be gone because you can only afford one good safety, and I’d rather have KP. Who should also be cheaper. Diehl has to go – cheapest on the cap. I’m trying to find a way to save Canty through next year.

I think there will have to be some contract reworkings with players entering the final years of their deals and the big payouts there – give them additional bonus money instead of salary and a few more years. Depends if they are willing to acknowledge their next contract is going to be for less money.

Otherwise one major FA has to go. Given Reese’s comments about Brewer last year, and his preseason snaps on the left side, I wonder if it could be Beatty.

My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.

2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA

by ct17 on Feb 11, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

You think Rolle is gone this year? Or year after? Cant see us letting him go this offseason with no viable replacement

As far as beatty goes….I don’t think the market will be big for him, unless he does very well this year. Who knows.

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 11, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Rolle's getting paid an awful lot

It’s hard to justify. 9M on a safety that’s not Ed Reed in his prime

I’m a Rolle fan, and I think he’s been great about playing everywhere, I could see a rework, no way he could get that much if he gets cut

Eli is our King!

by trueblue63 on Feb 11, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

This year meaning the coming 2012 season?

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 11, 2012 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 11, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

ok

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 11, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Right he has 20.75 mill unguaranteed money

They have 3 Mill on the books, 1M each 2012-2014 which isn’t great (you can sign some credible guys for 3M / 3 yrs).

But to me, it’s a natural, Rolle has proven his worth (how many S’s that can cover a slot guy ever come on the market or get drafted after the 15th spot), but his salary is out of whack with the new CBA. Lower his salaries 2 Mill per, add a year for 5M, give him another 1M as a bonus, and guarantee this year. He’s guaranteed another 6M if he doesn’t pay another down, that’s great for him. We save 1.75M this year and 2M the next two.

Eli is our King!

by trueblue63 on Feb 14, 2012 9:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Rolle and Beatty

Rolle next year. I agree that they need a replacement, and it’s too big of a cap hit this year. Beatty I agree should be the cheapest to resign unless he has a stellar year next year. Staley on SF this year should show us the market for Beatty.

My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.

2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA

by ct17 on Feb 11, 2012 11:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you missed one major factor that you never excluded all the free agents that counted against our current cap to give us more flex room. Plus what i have read is the Dallas Cowboys had like something around 20-30 million in space in their cap. here is my take on our free agents and cuts:

Cuts

Jacobs
Paysinger
Barden
Simtim
Ware

Signs

Chase
Ross
TT
Tyron
Pascoe
Weatherford
Thomas
Dave

We may even be able to get one or two role players back cheap after they are not signed by other teams.

"They got a big-mouthed coach, a big mouth and a big-bellied coach that talks too much and now it's finally time to shut up- Brandon Jacobs

by Giantstep on Feb 11, 2012 8:19 AM EST reply actions  

Guess you're right

Looks like Dallas is only using 90mill of their cap.

GIANTS! SB46 CHAMPS!

by Charles L on Feb 11, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

There are competing sites giving different information.

I just went with the more “pessimistic” scenario just for funsies.

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 11, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Awesome post BBI!

I was reaaaallly hoping someone had done this already so I wouldn’t have to do all the math on my own, lol.

Just curious though, how does IR count against the cap? In your calculation, Beckum doesn’t count against the cap because he’ll be IR’d.

How about Chad Jones then? Doesn’t seem hopeful that he’ll be ready for next year and I can’t imagine he’d still count against the cap while on the Non-football injury IR list.

GIANTS! SB46 CHAMPS!

by Charles L on Feb 11, 2012 9:44 AM EST reply actions  

IR doesn't count on salary

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 11, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Ive read that it depends on the contract

and for most players it does count against the cap. Some players (like late round picks or UDFAs) have “split” contracts where only some portion of their salary counts against the cap.

I need to investigate further.

"The saddest thing in life is wasted talent"

by Larry Soprano on Feb 11, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

ok

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 11, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

IR counts against the cap

And under the player contract, you have to IR an injured player unless you reach a cash settlement, which is then counted instead. The miracle of this past season is that all of the injuries did not push us over cap. Rosenfels really screwed us, although I do not know what the settlement was.

Soprano is right in that their is a mechanism with the lowest-paid players to not guarantee salaries if injured. Not sure if any teams do it.

The other exception is that players signed after the start of the season are only counted for the portion of games they played. So Ugoh’s cap hit was 4/16 of whatever his minimum salary was (probably around $650k, so cap hit of $162.5k)

My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.

2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA

by ct17 on Feb 11, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

We'll get nothing and like it

The cupboard is bare, the pattern is full (insert other movie quote here)

We are capped out and probably will be for years.

Blue is the color of melancholy and honesty
Green is the color of inexperience, envy and nausea.

by roguetrader on Feb 11, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

It's cause we have a lot of talented individuals!!!!

Heh, we’re going to be shedding some massive contracts next year. We’ll have to. Beatty, Cruz, Osi. Kiwi, Tynes, DeOssie, KP, among others will be FAs. Nicks, Tuck will be entering the last years of their deals.

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 11, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah. But hey, the dude has 2 superbowl wins under his belt. I trust him that he knows which contracts to shed and which ones to not. I have no doubt that the draft picks he’s got between now and then will give us yet ANOTHER fan favorite playmaker or 2.

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 11, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Damn BBI

Ed should pay you for this one. That must have taken forever. Excellent post.

by PBR Pounder on Feb 11, 2012 12:32 PM EST reply actions  

Me too, B

JR is a beast,no doubt about it.
I like your draft with a few tweaks here and there..but it does have a JR feel to it.
I especially like the Brandon Taylor pick.A top tier young S is definitely in order.As is a beast TE.
Hopefully a more dynamic RB and a versatile interior blocker added to my draft wishlist as well.But for all we know Petrus emerges.
I really trust JR to stock our roster with young talent regardless.

All the way to a Super Bowl victory like a knife through butter
JPP Is hands down the best DE in the NFL right now
Can't spell Elite without ELI
Jerry Reese for President 2012..let's make that happen!

by Shaunthegiant on Feb 11, 2012 12:35 PM EST reply actions  

Either get paid or hold out,LOL

All the way to a Super Bowl victory like a knife through butter
JPP Is hands down the best DE in the NFL right now
Can't spell Elite without ELI
Jerry Reese for President 2012..let's make that happen!

by Shaunthegiant on Feb 11, 2012 12:35 PM EST reply actions  

Irony

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 17, 2012 12:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Irony

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 17, 2012 12:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Awesome article as usual BBI

only problem I have is this:

1. I think your numbers are a little off. I got my numbers from here

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/cap-hit/

which says our cap hit next year is: 117,309,702
so if you remove Diehl and Mckenzie, that brings the total to 106,622,202 (we can debate later whether we should let those guys do)

2.

Remember to make cap room this past offseason, Jerry “restructured” a few contracts for Baas?

who did JR restructure for Baas? I specifically remember JR coming on the radio when the Jets were restructuring everyone. He said he wasn’t doing that because you end up hamstringing your franchise down the line. The only restructure I remember on the entire team was Rolle, Webster, and Jacobs. But that was just for flexibility during the season in case something came up. I could be completely wrong on that though.

I think we’re actually in really, really good shape going into this off season. Plus when you factor in FA compensation, I think Jerry Reese might have his best draft to date.

Win another SB...CHECK!
Prove all the naysayers wrong...CHECK!
Stock the team with a young, core group of studs...CHECK!
Damn it's good to be a fan of the NYG

Let's Go Giants!!!!

by maculis on Feb 11, 2012 8:50 PM EST reply actions  

thanks man

I mentioned up there that spotrac has different numbers than the other site I used…I purposefully used the higher number simply cause it was harder.

As far as restructuring for Baas was Rolle, Webster and Eli. Jacobs restructured for Ahmad

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 11, 2012 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

ok cool...I got it

Win another SB...CHECK!
Prove all the naysayers wrong...CHECK!
Stock the team with a young, core group of studs...CHECK!
Damn it's good to be a fan of the NYG

Let's Go Giants!!!!

by maculis on Feb 11, 2012 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Thought Eli didn't restructure

I thought the big stink was that people were made Eli wasn’t restructuring his contract (this is before the season where idiots were saying he wasn’t worth his contract)

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me." Dudley Field Malone

Editor at nflmocks.com, contributor a newyork.sbnation.com

by Jesse Bartolis on Feb 12, 2012 8:36 PM EST up reply actions  

They could not restructure him because of the way preseason went

If they had redid his contract then he was not going to be eligible for the whatever training camp we had. It was some technicality. It was discussed here during that time.

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 17, 2012 12:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Except that 117k does not include a full roster

It’s only 41 guys. You have to fill out the roster, the practice squad roster, and account for players being moved to IR or PUP.

My QB has 2 rings. Well, 3 if you want to get technical.

2012 NYG mock - 1: Dwayne Allen TE, 2: Brandon Boykin CB/RS, 3: A.J. Jenkins WR, 4: Vick Ballard RB, 5: Neiko Thorpe S, 6: Rishard Matthews WR/RS, 6: Blake DeChristopher G/T, 7: BPA

by ct17 on Feb 12, 2012 12:56 AM EST up reply actions  

This topic is a bit over my head BBI but your post is a work of art as is most of your work.

Insightful, well thought out and great delivery. based on your fan post, I think that Osi and Cruz can still get a nice pay increase with some of that money saved from cutting the players that you listed. The $2 million dollar cap buffer only serves to make the possibility of getting them more money more of a reality. like I said, this salary cap stuff is a bit over my head but if I understand what you have written correctly it would be possible to give them more money and still stay within salary cap giudelines. correct me if I am wrong. Rec’d!

If you want to argue that Manning is a) not a great quarterback or b) not the best quarterback in franchise history your credibility is automatically shot.

by LoNJDTechnology on Feb 11, 2012 9:48 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks Lo

I’m not too sure myself, but I believe the $2 million cap buffer is for re-signing your own free agents if you go above the cap. I do think that with restructuring contracts, Reese would be able to either re-up Osi or Cruz. Don’t think both are possible, so he’d have to look at the less volatile situation and hope it doesn’t blow up lol

"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle

by BigBlueIntervention on Feb 11, 2012 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

This raises an interesting cap question

At what date are teams required to be officially in compliance with the cap, and how does that influence mid-season signings?

Go Giants!
Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

by rich316 on Feb 12, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Let's Go Giants.

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 11, 2012 11:16 PM EST reply actions  

Thank goodness I'm not a gm

But it feels good to know we have a gm that knows what hes doing and will get the job done

by Shyti on Feb 12, 2012 7:26 PM EST reply actions  

i'm sure Reese

has little to do with finding out the numbers. thats why you hire math or business people. if reese does this that’s a huge misapplication of resources. so time consuming when he needs to do research on draft players or free agents or working out deals.

World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.

by Drizzzy on Feb 12, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Usually have cap speciaplists

Most G.M. (well teams) hire guys whose primary job it is to make sure they can in under the cap. You have to have a law degree to understand some of this stuff

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me." Dudley Field Malone

Editor at nflmocks.com, contributor a newyork.sbnation.com

by Jesse Bartolis on Feb 12, 2012 8:37 PM EST reply actions  

Take it from someone who has a law degree...

it doesn’t really help all that much in this scenario.

JPP + Cruz + Nicks + Eli

Yea, I'm excited about the next 10 years.

by baadfish on Feb 14, 2012 8:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Really

On sporttrac we are paying for Chad Jones at 600k next year and the guy has not even played for us.

"They got a big-mouthed coach, a big mouth and a big-bellied coach that talks too much and now it's finally time to shut up- Brandon Jacobs

by Giantstep on Feb 12, 2012 9:14 PM EST reply actions  

yeah thats what happens

when you sign a contract.

World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.

by Drizzzy on Feb 12, 2012 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Coby Fleener

This kid reminds me of Jimmy Graham and a Dustin Keller combined into one player. I want

by bigtrueblue on Feb 13, 2012 10:08 PM EST reply actions  

I dont think he'd fit in well.

I love the premise of getting a big threat at TE. But I dont think a TE in the mold of Graham/fleener would translate well. Then after cosndering the cost of getting him ( trade up in the 2nd, or our 1st rder) he’s not worth it.

I doubt fleener would see the field unless its an obvious passing down. If thats the case, he’s just a new travis beckum. Sure he has the size to block. But he hasn’t shown the ability to block. If anything, i want our TE to be like a Gresham.

by NYG_Slater on Feb 16, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Really well thought out and presented. Thank you!

And having looked it over, I can’t imagine that Deihl won’t also get cut.

As you noted, it seems unlikely that the Giants could sign a FA tackle of high quality given their cap situation, BUT they sure as heck could sign one of average quality for a lot less money than Deihl, and that would still be an upgrade. They still have Stacy Andrews, right? I don’t think the blood clots were career threatening, so he adds depth at G/T that we kind of forgot about.

I also think my Reese hat says that we could be looking at a couple of linemen in the draft. Let me throw a name out there as a guy who, if he pans out, would be a great fit for the Giants general OL methods and style, as well as a potential 2012 starter and immediate help for the running game: Amini Silatolu

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=100015

by JTMacc on Feb 14, 2012 10:03 AM EST reply actions  

eyyyyyy I resent that

Great post by the way but you know, there are Giants fans in Mexico (myself) and other parts of the world. “My fellow Americans (and brisulph and other canadians),
We demand to be included!!

by Bajaserge on Feb 14, 2012 11:24 AM EST reply actions  

Awesome post BBI !!

I think my 3 favorite things about BBV are (in order):

1. Pretending I get to make the game plan each week (Coaching)
2. Pretending I get to make the roster moves (GM)
3. Pretending I get to make the staff moves (Ownership)
4. Just being a fan.

The first 3 are my favorites because they all involve strategy. This post really gave a great macro overview to get me thinking about #2 for the off-season.

One question, though. In looking at what cap room we free up by cutting guys under contract for 2012, are you subtracting the remaining pro-rated signing bonus (the part I think still costs us against the 2012 cap) for the rest of the contract from the 2012 salary (the part we save)?

That’s the part that’s always a bitch. Sometimes you cut a guy and it doesn’t really help much that year if he’s got a lot of years left of pro-rated bonus that you already paid him. Agents should be crafty in making sure some of the out years look that way, but these days they don’t seem to mind back loaded deals that the player will never see because they can brag about the “deal” they got X, to get Y to sign with them.

by Shofner85 on Feb 15, 2012 5:31 PM EST reply actions  

Very good Shofner85

This is not the 2007 team.
2011 NYG will have their own legacy.

by BB1156 on Feb 15, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah, crap.

Had a whole big body to this post that got dropped and the subject line just repeated. Epic fail.

by Shofner85 on Feb 16, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

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