Scheme Vs Personnel - The Fewell Case

by Skii31 on Jan 16, 2012 12:17 PM EST

I notice, in almost every thread, there seems to be this little battle being fought over BBVer's. So I thought why not create a Fan Post dedicated to this very issue.

I say, Fewell with his back against the wall was forced (by players and TC) to switch the scheme from a read a react defense to one that err's on the side of aggresion. Thus we have seen the 3 man rush revert back to wrinkle of the defense instead of being the defense... Constant pressure brought on by a 5th rusher at times has really helped the defensive line. Also, Keeping the DT's in the game and playing them has also boosted the defense. Man Press defense from Webby and ARoss prevented AR from having a career day, as opposed to the umbrella zone that allowed charlie whitehurst to throw for 350 yards against us.

The opposing view point is, injuries have finally subsided, thus we have stability in our personnel.. Which leads to everyone being on the same page. Which then leads itself to everybody executing Fewells scheme flawlessly. Causing Fewell to not ever having to change his approach to the defense.

So lets have it out. You cannot pick both. Its either one or the other... because what fun is it to pick the neutral side...

Poll

Is our Defensive turnaround due to a change of scheme or continuity of personnel?

Scheme

45 votes

Personnel

12 votes

57 votes | Poll has closed

FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.

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Comments

Completely scheme

And playing players where their abilities are best utilized. Did you see the Pack rush 3 last night? Did not end well for them, but made me feel bad for the Packers fans, as I know how they must feel when they see that. Eli picked them apart when they rushed 3.

by CCE718 on Jan 16, 2012 12:39 PM EST reply actions

Its about the personnel/talent

Yes Im the one who voted for the personnel

Ever since Chase Blackburn was resigned on the Giants and has stabilized the MLB position it seems that the defense has played better. Thank Tebow for Chase :). Im sick and tired of this scheme talks during drafts and during play, heaven forbid we actually attribute our good play to the talent on the field. I don’t deny that scheme covers up the average to mediocre players. Not only for Giants but for other teams as well.

The ultimate football chicken & egg argument:
What came first? The great talent or the great scheme?

by rcnt123 on Jan 16, 2012 1:04 PM EST reply actions

adjustments were made all year

to best make use of the revolving door of available players that Radio had at his disposal.

Now they have been able to fine tune the scheme (exclude some plays, include others) to work with the group that they have been running out there for a few weeks now.

As much as you’d like to separate the resurgence of this D into two categories that could be responsible for the result, ya can’t. The two are intertwined, and thus it’s a discussion on here every week.

You down wit JPP?
I got 99 problems but a Vick ain't one!

by Flynner on Jan 16, 2012 1:09 PM EST reply actions

I told you

ya cant take the middle ground! lol

I believe P.F.’s trust in his players allowed himself to change the scheme.. Thus its a scheme change more so than the Personnel on the field. Granted to some people, those are related.

I dont think so, P.F. tried to protect his rookies instead of just letting them play. Placing JPP at DT, even though we spent a ton of money on Canty and with Bernard and Anvil, it hurt the team.
So P.F. changed the scheme, no longer was he going to have players play out of posistion. Nor was he going to take Better players out to help the rookies… Thus a scheme change was in order…

And from what I gather, the change came from the DBacks.. and IMHO if someone said TC wasnt apart of it, the TC needs to be gone.

Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.

by Skii31 on Jan 16, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions

I saw a lot of Tuck at DT last night

Standing up, moving around like last year. And Osi even played some snaps at LDE. They have tweaked the scheme, but not as much as you seem to be intimating. They deleted the 3-man rush, but our blitzing is still infrequent compared with other teams. We still play zone. Saw that last night when they loaded 3 WRs on a side.

2012 mock (Manningham resigns) - 1: Janoris Jenkins CB / Chase Minnifield CB, 2: Kevin Zeitler LG / Ben Jones C-LG / Cordy Glenn LG-RT, 3: Keenan Robinson SAM, 4: Neiko Thorpe FS, 5: Vic Ballard RB / Brandon Bolden RB

(Manningham lost) - 1: Marvin McNutt WR, 2: Kevin Zeitler LG / Ben Jones C-LG / Cordy Glenn LG-RT, 3: Keith Tandy CB, 4: Neiko Thorpe FS, 5: Vic Ballard RB / Brandon Bolden RB

by ct17 on Jan 16, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions

Tuck played DT

The difference is, it was a 4 man front and Anvil/Canty were right next to him… as opposed to JPP at DT/NT with osi on one side and Tolly on the other.

Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.

by Skii31 on Jan 16, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions

they are related

he needed players that could run the scheme he wanted to run.

He tried to protect the rookies, but injuries forced first Jones then Wiliams then Herzlich into full time jobs. Eventually players were put in place and the rookies were protected a bit more. But running guys like that along with the revolving door that was the secondary 3rd CB/safety prevented Radio from getting his defense fully in place

You down wit JPP?
I got 99 problems but a Vick ain't one!

by Flynner on Jan 16, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions

that is the question though

is it the players or is it the scheme? Whether P.F. needed different players is irrevelent.

If you say its because of the healthy players that he now runs a different scheme = then you agree its the scheme that is the cause for the improvement.

I was gearing this to those who say P.F. has not changed his scheme. That we are running the same type of plays in the same situations that we did before the Jets game.. The only difference is the players figured it all out.

Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.

by Skii31 on Jan 16, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions

I think that they wanted to run this scheme right from the get go

but that was derailed when they lost a few key people.

now that they have people in position again they have gone back to the original script. So in a sense I think they are telling the truth when they say the scheme hasn’t changed. but those of us who watched them this season see such a difference between now and the middle of the year see different things being implemented and executed correctly, feel as though the scheme has changed.

The players they have put in place are the difference. They have allowed Radio’s defense’s scheme to work. Having the consistency he has had over the past few weeks has allowed them to fine tune everything on that side of the ball.

Either way, it is nothing short of remarkable to think that this is the same D that we saw in November and early December.

Full Kudos to Radio and Coughlin.

You down wit JPP?
I got 99 problems but a Vick ain't one!

by Flynner on Jan 16, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions

I saw a lot of zone last night and not too much blitzing

What has changed is Osi + JPP + Tuck healthy. The QBs are scared. Ryan and Rodgers were rushing throws. How many deep balls have been thrown on us all year? Not even one a game.

The LBs have also adjusted their coverages better. Probably experience/coaching.

(Manningham lost) - 1: Marvin McNutt WR, 2: Kevin Zeitler LG / Ben Jones C-LG / Cordy Glenn LG-RT, 3: Keith Tandy CB, 4: Neiko Thorpe FS, 5: Vic Ballard RB / Brandon Bolden RB

by ct17 on Jan 16, 2012 1:16 PM EST reply actions

When I say scheme

I know they will go back to Zone, and rush 3 men from time to time… The plays in the playbook are the same plays…

This is what I see
Dline -
Now – Standard 4 man rush, from that we rush 4, sometimes 5, sometimes 3
Earlier – Standard 3 man rush – with occasional 4 man rush or for exotic looks a 5 man rushing.

DBacks
Now – CB’s Man press, occasionally going into zone. Safeties with in 15 -20 yards of the LOS.
Depending on formation going into two deep zone, 1 deep zone, etc
Earlier – CB’s -5-10 yards off the WR, Safeties 20-30 yards off the LOS. Standard umbrella zone – 2 deep zone, 4 man shallow zone… Occazionally moving into man…

Scheme deals with how you use your plays. I know having healthy players helps, but the change in scheme is the biggest cause for the change in our defense.

Regardless of what happens, No playoffs, playoffs, no superblow, superblow.... The 2011/2012 is one of my favorite Giants Teams of all time.

by Skii31 on Jan 16, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions

CBs Man Press

is the most obvious change. Sunday it was the difference in the game as the pressure was decent but the coverage was excellent.

by BLUEYOU on Jan 17, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions

Both

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Jacquian Williams,...Maybe .. Sadly this has been modified.

by Troy O on Jan 16, 2012 2:06 PM EST reply actions

I voted Scheme, because you can tell just by watching the guys play

PF’s scheme was too complicated, and it showed. Guys (especially DB’s) were running arounf like chickens with their heads cut off before the play. Now, with this simplified scheme, the DB’s seem to be doing their jobs better, and are shutting down the offenses weapons. From the front seven POV, there has been a lot less 3 man rush, JPP isn’t playing NG in a 3 man rush, and we are even sending more people on blitzes, which (SHOCKER) results in more sacks.

by #56 4life on Jan 16, 2012 3:23 PM EST reply actions

its neither

its the players are trusting in one another to do their jobs. that prevents grant from sneaking up so JWill doesnt get burnt. Or ARoss staying with his man instead of thinking the QB is gonna run when he rolls outside the pocket. He can trust that someone else is chasing him down from behind. Its the guys not overpursueing & staying with their run fits. & Its just straight up will power. Man on man ‘beat ur ass’ kind of play going on right now.

I don't hate the guy, but if I saw him, I wouldn't take him out to dinner."--Amani Toomer on Trey Junkin
Talk is Cheap! Play the Game!
You can't spell Elite without ELI.

by 1giantlion on Jan 16, 2012 10:38 PM EST reply actions