Fan's Take: Examining Jerry Reese's Draft Track Record

lol @ last year’s draft picks. To Jerry’s defense, the draft class last year was very weak anyway, correct? JPP is obviously a HR pick though…we see the writing on the wall already.

Nicks & Beatty two years ago seem to be the only good picks because Sintim, despite his injury woes, still couldn’t get on the field full-time before.

As for calling the LBs busts & stuff, the only one we should really be able to say that about is Sintim because the others were drafted pretty late. Not sure if others will agree with that logic tho.

I think it is a bit too early on Barden although he may turn out a bust.

Koets is not a total bust either.

I am betting Brewer is added to the list in the future. This year’s draft may be good otherwise.

I think JR is decent, not great. Too focused on getting bargains, a wise guy. He finds some hidden gems but also is too cute sometimes. Same with FA.

 to label Koets, Barden, Andre Brown, or even Beckam as busts is nonsense. Every draft pick isn’t expected to be a starter, or necessarily produce right away. Some really good players, like Alford, produce and then get injured. No talent evaluation can account for injuries.
Nor can a talent evaluator account for a coaching staff just not using a player properly (see Travis Beckam).

with calling injured players busts.

Sintim: Injured
Barden: Injured
Brown: Injured
Alford: Injured
Koets: Injured

Sintim was having a VERY good camp/preseason and could have had a breakout season

Barden was on his way to a breakout game, and probably could be a starting (or no.3) wide receiver right now. Besides, its not Barden’s fault he had to learn ST’s from Tom Quinn.

Andre Brown ruptured his Achilles, and probably SHOULD have made the team this year. That’s not on JR’s drafting ability

Jay Alford was a very nice contributor in the 07 run, and then promptly ruptured his Achilles as well. Not JR’s fault.

Adam Koets probably would be our starting center right now, had he not torn his ACL running into Bradshaw (when he WAS starting at C). Again NOT JR’s fault.

I also see that he completely left Chad Jones out.

Consider the Patriots.

2010: 12 picks. 7 players make the roster. 5 dont.

2009: 12 picks. 6 are on the roster this season

2008: 7 picks. 2 are currently on the roster

2007: 9 picks. 0 are currently on the roster

2006: 10 picks. 1 is currently on the roster

Some teams have had a series of busts with their number 1 pick. the most disappointing is the waste of picks of Beckum and Barden.

What is the definition of a bust? It looks like many players who have not performed because they suffered injuries are labelled busts in this analysis. If a player gets injured after the draft, that’s not the GM’s fault. Similarly, using the percentage of players who remain with a team is misleading. Teams without a core of good players retain and start more draft picks. And as others have pointed out, without comparing the results to other team’s drafts you can’t really know what the reasonably expected success rate is. So many intangible factors affect the ultimate success of a draft pick, that it is very difficult to predict long term success — especially once you get past the first couple rounds where the really high performing players are.

slightly overated by average BBVers, but to call Reese a “very poor GM” with an “abysmal” draft record is (to be polite to a fellow Giants fan) tendentious. I believe that, making appropriate comparisons, Reese is at least a very good GM and Eli, though not elite, and paid too much, is certainly better than just a good QB.

I don’t know, I think a pro-bowl caliber WR and a starting LT makes for a pretty good draft.

with other GM’s to get a better picture.(Sorry I am too lazy to do the leg work) but it can’t be that bad. My main gripe with Reese is that he is too tight with the money. Always trying to get the best without spending too much which is not necessarily a bad thing but sometimes you just gotta spend the money to enhance the team.

As I have said here before, go through other teams’ drafts dating back several years and you find how difficult it is to draft starters, let alone stars.

The numbers are the numbers….it’s what I tell my peer mgmt staff after doing evaluations. It stings but the facts are facts.

A couple of thoughts first:

1. I don’t think he is a bad GM but he’s had some very mediocre drafts.
2. I think the scoring system is weighted incorrectly. To explain, I believe that if a GM gets the first and second round picks correct (ie, the first two picks are starters) then the rest of the draft if gravy. ….I’m sure most of you disagree.
    Example: If you take the 2010 draft, if JPP and Linval Joseph continue to show the promise they are doing then I think it’s a draft score of a B. You can always find backups on the wire and ST players as UDFA….you can’t find JPP on the wire and only end up paying big in a trade to get them.

2009 draft – I think that is a C+ since we have two solid starters and one potential super star in Nicks. How many people draft LT’s and get it right?

In my opinion – he’s a little above average as a draft GM ….I would say he’s failed as a GM in the free agency market as we have overpaid for Canty, Rolle…etc.

this is a lousy way to evaluate him. In fact, it looks like it comes from someone who has an axe to grind. As noted by many already, I don’t know how you include players with career ending or career limiting injuries. Jay Alford was expected to be a breakout player a couple years ago, and then it was over for him. Too bad, I really wanted “proof” of Jerry’s ineptitude, but this ain’t it.

A better way would be to look at how many drafted players are still in the league say five years later and add additional points to that for how many are starters or made a Pro Bowl. But leave out players with serious injuries. This list is just dumb.

What does it tell us about JR?

Hard to argue the others thus far (Beckum and Barden in particular) due to lack of playing time.

2005—second round Corey Webster; third round Justin Tuck; fourth round Brandon Jacobs.

I think Reese had his best draft this year—especially with the late round picks; it’s not his fault that Amukamara and Austin got injured.

But sometimes Reese gets too much credit: Ernie Accorsi put together that Giants team that beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl.
Accorsi signed Shaun O’Hara as a free agent in 2004, and before the 2005 season Accorsi went after and signed 3 starters in free agency: Plaxico Burress and Kareem McKenzie on offense and Antonio Pierce on defense. He held his ground when negotiating with free agent Burress, going so far as to let the receiver walk when he didn’t accept the Giants’ offer, and he stole linebacker Pierce from divisional rival Washington.
Many people forget, but when Accorsi engineered the trade that brought Eli Manning in 2004, the Giants had no first-round pick and only four draft picks in the next year’s draft (2005): He drafted Corey Webster in the second round, Justin Tuck in the third round, and Brandon Jacobs in the fourth round. And sometimes people should be recognized for the moves they don’t make. For example, when the San Diego Chargers wanted Osi Umenyiora as part of the trade for Manning, Accorsi refused to deal Umenyiora, who was taken in the second round of the 2003 draft. By the way, Accorsi also drafted C. Snee in the second round in 2004. (Accorsi moved up in the 2002 draft to select Jeremy Shockey.)

unleash the rabid homer rage and force feed him koolaide!!!

Is the chart scientific? No. Does it raise questions? Yes. Is Reese the worst GM ever? No. Is he overrated and given far too much credit by most folks here? Yes.

Ignoring 2011, JR drafted 9 players in the top two rounds; 8 of whom were/are starters for the Giants. No busts…Sintim was on the bust fence. Out of 31 picks, 13 are/were starters. The top two rounds are where you look for starters, rounds 3 & 4 are “potential” picks and 5 through 7 are “nice if they make it no loss if they don’t” picks. I’m not sure what GM’s he’s being compared to, but his key guys make the team and start.

but only one side of the coin. Just like like the “draft value” chart" all teams use in draft day trades (which may need to be discounted some in years 1 and 2, as players take time to develop), we need an “expected potential” (and we could just use that chart) to be compared with a “value of result” for each player (which logically would increase for the same player over the first few years. Just the round # doesn’t help too much. A high round two and a low round two are vastly different in expectation.

That is why Ryan Leaf is such a colossal bust, and Jesse Armstead was such a great "sleeper’ pick. It’s also why Ahmad Bradshaw is such a great steal and Clint Sintim is so dissapointing.
 

It is difficult to call some players “busts” in some situations. For example, the fact that Phillip Dillard lost his roster spot to Greg Jones simply says that Jerry Reese drafted a better player in the next year. Accordingly, it should be taken into account somehow that while Stoney Woodson and players like him have not made the roster, Bruce Johnson made the roster and was a contributor.

I find serious flaws with the logic behind this definition of a bust. Guys’ ability to make a team is directly related to the talent already on said team. We’ve cut lots of guys that probably make bad teams. That doesn’t make them busts or wasted picks. Sometimes bringing in talent to your off-season training and camps makes the guys on your team pick it up, too. Keeping or cutting a guy is as reflective of the position’s talent/depth as it is a reflection of the individual.

where you draft in the order affects how many players will be impact, INJURIES are a huge part of it and can hardly be blamed on Reese. I think he is very good.

Signing our picks, getting FA’s in, Upgrading positions that were already known weaknesses. I totally think he misjudged Boss and Smith’s departures, never made a serious attempt on Plax… (if any was actually made…since TC was very cavalier about that whole situation) and the only area i think was actually improved was special teams…because they were so horrible!!!….
Glad Dodge went, and Reynaud…as returner……

Mr Reese has failed to upgrade/maintain the quality of the current roster. As a fan, I have no idea how much the coach and owners support or impede his performance but I must believe that he has alot of liberty in calling the shots. He failed to resign Boss and Smith, cut veteran linemen, retained the Special Teams coach, was not very active in FA ie middle linebacker, lineman, TE, etc. The draft is only one duty of the GM and somewhat of a crapshoot. One of his best drafts included both Boss and Smith and he let them both get away. In summary, this was a poor performance by the Giants in the off season. Now the coach must try and make due with a much weaker roster.

now the best teams in the area are both wearing Green….. thanks GM and Coach.!!!

when they decided that games with replacement players would count…….Giants brought in a couple chefs from the culinary schools to fill in as OL and DLs….and we were soooooo totally over matched even then!!……Even Taylor and Rutledge coming to the ranks of the “replacements” couldnt get us a win……..SB to bust…all in two seasons!. I think Parcells should have suited himself and Hanley up…and played..

The Giants roster however beset by injuries is still quality. This idea that Jerry Reese somehow failed to upgrade the roster is incorrect but what I don’t understand is how you can value a 6th-7th round pick the same as you do a 1st or 2nd … You also have failed to take into account the overrall success rate of NFL Draft picks ( which isn’t very high ) … If you look at the roster the majority of starters are players drafted by Reese. Terrell Thomas , Kenny Phillips , Jonathan Goff etc are starters and that’s all you could ask for … Where is the delineation between productive starter , marginal starter , star etc. … The rebuttal gives a much more accurate portrayal of Reese’s acumen.

And there was no reason to lavish ELI with such riches on a par with his bro. Jacobs took a paycut to get AB in…knowing what that means to have him in backfield….doesnt Eli prefer to have a nice blocking TE who can catch 30 balls down the seam, or a nice 3rd down possesion receiver?
BTW…..when you all ask ….well…WHO was available…as a FA well….you know teams ARE allowed to trade for guys too……or at least look at teams trying to make a move in another area…..where we might have a bigger wealth of talent. Signing Kiwi and AB was almost a no brainer, and i thought so would signing Smith. Again, Boss has concussion issues in addition to getthg hit hard all the time. I’d have tried hard for Smith, give him 3 yrs, and hope by midseason, he’d be ready to contribute. Right now we have no possession guys at TE or WR.
I think we could have swung a low level trade early on….for a TE.

Let him earn another year. He certainly didn’t earn another one based on last year. I’d have made him wait it out….maybe it would have made him more aggressive> Last time we won the SB when he was in that contract situation.
I don’t see him righting this ship, this is Part 2 of 2010, and I saw the same old thing…..except we don’t have to worry as much about Kick off returns (especially cause we don’t score!). There will be excuses made……mind you……the short training camp, the rookie “holdouts”, the rules handed down about FA participation in drills….etc… SO ….>TC will get a pass once again………..and so will KILLDRIVE.

He was suited and available for the Eagles. HE WAS the number one receiver on 3rd down 2 years ago. Eli’s GO TO GUY. Mr Clutch. Mr Uncoverable. Since he got hurt we have been terrible on 3rd downs. We were horrendous on Sunday. This is looking like possibly the blunder of all blunders losing this guy. Reese needs to answer for this royal screw up. I’m not saying fire the guy but he needs to be called out on it. We have been a significantly better team with steve smith in the slot. Eli is a significantly better QB with Steve Smith in the slot. I want to know definitively WHY we dont have steve smith in the slot

You got into contract discussions with him. THAT tells me we WERE interested, but didn’t get the math done. The interest was there. I don’t think they offered enough or maybe the money was so conditional, that Philly offered guaranteed money. No one is going to tell me this wasnt purely a $$$ issue rather than a health issue. We don’t need the Giants coming out and saying he is 6 weeks away, when he suited up on Sunday. Did he rush himself back? MAYBE..to prove a point. I’d rather have had him proving his point FOR us, than against us. Eli looked like he lost his blankiee…out there on Sunday, i dont think i ever saw Eli even look to his right. I think Reese, TC and Eli blew it….for us this season. Eli should have restructured to allow us to get a guy that can help…at either WR or TE. Really….does anyone think Ballard is the answer at TE???
No one would have killed REESE if he signed Smith. Smith was one of the beloved Giants, and had respect of the fans and his teammates. We have signed worse players than Smith, and at much higher prices… NO………BIG BLUNDER…..will cost us…

I’m glad none of em are in charge of running the Giants cuz we would never win a game. People look for someone to blame, I don’t know how Reese became the easy target, but whatever. Reese has given Coughlin more than enough talent to win with. Everyone is going crazy for us not going the way of the Skins and spending alot on free agents. the last time we spent alot (09 season) did’nt work out too well ( I know injuries played a part in that season too). You have to disregard crazy opinions like those of MR. Mushinsky because, A. their not objective ( he seems o not like Reese), B. the statements are’nt supported with any facts. He was probably drunk when wrote this.

A GM that busts does so on 1st and 2nd rounders.