Giants' Position Battles: Does Anyone Want To Play Tight End?
by Ed Valentine on Aug 24, 2011 8:57 AM EDT
in New York Giants News
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PrintAfter two preseason games, it is beginning to look like whoever will replace Kevin Boss as the New York Giants primary tight end might not be on the current roster. The current crop of tight ends has been less than impressive thus far. Let's go through them one-by-one.
Travis Beckum: The best hope the Giants have among their current group of tight ends, at least in terms of a player who could be a weapon for quarterback Eli Manning in the passing attack. At 235 pounds, though, it has been pretty well established that Beckum cannot be the prototypical tight end the Giants like because he just cannot hold up blocking at the point of attack. He has to make his mark as a weapon in the passing game, and the problem is he just has not done it. Nagging injuries keep costing him practice time, and he was invisible Monday against Chicago. Beckum might be running out of time to show the Giants they can rely on him.
Bear Pascoe: A great guy, a hard worker and a guy who willingly shuffles back and forth from fullback to tight end. Pascoe has to make his living at either spot moving guys off the line of scrimmage, either opening holes for running backs or protecting Manning on passing plays. Problem is, through two preseason games Pascoe isn't moving anybody. Defenders have been running over and through him on a regular basis. The one "good" block he did have Monday, on a long run by Brandon Jacobs, was actually a blatant hold that somehow went uncalled. If Pascoe doesn't block people, he doesn't make the 53-man roster.
Jake Ballard: Like Pascoe, he will only make the roster if he starts knocking defenders backwards. The Giants like his size and strength, but right now it just isn't happening for him.
Daniel Coats: Right now, Coats, in his fifth season in the NFL, might be moving up the depth chart. He caught a 17-yard touchdown pass from David Carr Monday night, and by all accounts his blocking has been fine. With 57 career NFL games and 31 receptions, the 6-foot-3, 264-pound Coats is the most established tight end currently on the roster. Coats entered the league in 2007 with the Cincinnati Bengals as an undrafted free agent.
Christian Hopkins: Not much to say here. Hopkins has not made much of an impression, and might well be among the first wave of cuts come August 30.
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they should just call becks a wr
Kg only using him as a slot wr
And I’m not surprised at all. That’s what he’s been doing for two years now.
TeamJPP
by andiamo708 on Aug 24, 2011 9:00 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
kg thinks if the NYGs call becks a te
Magically LB will defend him. Smh
TeamJPP
by andiamo708 on Aug 24, 2011 9:02 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
would it really matter
LBs should be too slow for him
and
slot CBs should be too small for him
but agree, just call him a slot receiver…my goodness
keep things simple with this guy, he ain’t a TE
I'm down with J.P.P.
Yeah you know me...
and secret agents
#13 & #47
Im personally Tired of That ish
Dallas Clark couldnt block my sister if he tried, but he gets right off the line into open spaces b/c he’s quick. Becks is of the same mold but b/c we believe in this useless POWER running game he all of a sudden cant line up there. In the words of the greatest football coach ever (Jim Mora Sr), its HorseS**t
by AHoustonGiant on Aug 24, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Killdrive didn't know how to use Shockey correctly
Why the Giants drafted and H Back is beyond me. In the correct system Beckum would probably shine, we are not an H Back team. We are a power running O that has the ability to throw the ball downfield.
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
oh no........ Don't be hatin' on power running.
The running game is extremely important, not only to the Giants offensive strategy, but to the strategy of football in general. Those who effectively run the ball, wear down defenses, control the clock, and open up the passing game. The Giants scheme needs these to have a dominant offense. It’s the basis of Giants football, and IMO it is the right one.
Team Juggernaut: Jacobs, Hynoski. No one is safe
we need steve smith. underrated third down receiver. losing son-in-law (o’hara) is going to suck. i think we should have let kiwanuka go and resigned osi. however, since osi doesn’t want to be there, we should trade him for asanti
I think
our starting TE is not on the roster yet
Well
Rhett is still having problems with that DUI.
I hate the Jets, Justin Bieber, Kardashians, and people in general.
PEYTON > Brady
I like Hixon and Francesa.
by espnsucks ((banned)) on Aug 24, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh Random
Greeny and GOlic were doing their “two-a-days” and Greeny said we’d go 7-9.LOL. He’s just a hating Jets fan. Golic said 8-8, not much better tho.
I hate the Jets, Justin Bieber, Kardashians, and people in general.
PEYTON > Brady
I like Hixon and Francesa.
by espnsucks ((banned)) on Aug 24, 2011 9:05 AM EDT reply actions
That really pissed me off..
Greeny what did he play in high school the symbols? please….both of them are shot and If I have to hear that other no football talent Carton talk trash about the Giants I’m going to drive off the road.. This team will win at least 10 games and make the playoffs.
Oh
Don’t get me started about that idiot Carton. Talk about a prick.
I hate the Jets, Justin Bieber, Kardashians, and people in general.
PEYTON > Brady
I like Hixon and Francesa.
by espnsucks ((banned)) on Aug 24, 2011 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
When part of the schtick is how ignorant you are....
…why suddenly should we care about your opinions. The dude just wishes he was on Stern taking about breasts all day.
Blue is the color of melancholy and honesty
Green is the color of inexperience, envy and nausea.
What did Liam's "Mum" say our record would be?
In trying to scramble out of a hole, it sometimes digs it deeper. ~Wellington Mara
I always root for the defense. ~Wellington Mara
I turned it off,
But they said that it was a lot higher than what Greeny and Golic predicted
I hate the Jets, Justin Bieber, Kardashians, and people in general.
PEYTON > Brady
I like Hixon and Francesa.
by espnsucks ((banned)) on Aug 24, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
its just crazy
Where does Greeny get off saying they are going to be 7-9?? this guy is a hack! the first 6 six games are all very winnable what team scares you but the eagles? none! So I ask you this little geek the giants are only going to win one or two more games the rest of the season!!! arrrrrgghh its makes me nuts!!!
It used to bother me
What these radio heads and so called “experts” said but now it’s just comical. They don’t know a damn and they’re job is to incite controversy and say as many stupid/controversial things as possible to drive up the ratings. Although I have to admit greeny is probably the biggest turd of them all along with Colin cowdung
"I'm not superstitious but i am a little stitious" - Eli Manning
by Giants Fly High on Aug 24, 2011 9:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
These guys have no idea what they are talking about
Last night I was listening to Steven A. Smith and he was sure the Cardinals were going to beat us becuase we will not be able to stop Kevin freakin Kolb.
It’s amazing, if the Giants had lost two straight NFC championships the buzz would be what’s wrong with the Giants and why they can’t do it again. Yet the Jets who have won nothing in over 30 years are going to the SB even though they have no pass rush and running game. Just makes me laugh
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Right
How could I forget Steven a smith?? Add him to the list of biggest turds as well. Feel free to add to the list.
"I'm not superstitious but i am a little stitious" - Eli Manning
by Giants Fly High on Aug 24, 2011 9:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
so that makes two steve smiths that no one in NY likes lol
"I like prime rib, and I'd love to win a Super Bowl" -Andy Reid
3
Remember when Carolina’s wrecked us in the playoffs 20-0. Still tastes bitter
Team Juggernaut: Jacobs, Hynoski. No one is safe
we need steve smith. underrated third down receiver. losing son-in-law (o’hara) is going to suck. i think we should have let kiwanuka go and resigned osi. however, since osi doesn’t want to be there, we should trade him for asanti
we will not be able to stop Kevin Kolb
seriously, that was said on national radio?
Hey coughlin, heard there’s an opening in Cleveland. You should fit right in….. Loser!
I think Coach Coughlin should be fired! How come there are no locals in that line-up. Nothing to give the fans a name they know, nobody on that roster that went to Rutgers University, St Johns or any team from New York or New Jersey. And if the locals can’t get a shot on the franchise from the state they live in, why are we fans going to these games. To see some other state, and see our players play for foreign teams (other states) this is the first time in 20 years, the Giants don’t have any locals on their roster.
by The Always Well Dressed... on Aug 24, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm loving every minute of it.
That’s the one good thing about these injuries. We just get written off, which in turn pisses off the team and gives us the opportunity for a lot of “told ya so” moments later in the season.
Team Intervention:
Greg Jones
Tyler Sash
Jason Pierre-Paul
Will Beatty
Justin Trattou
by BigBlueIntervention on Aug 24, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
that it does
Hey coughlin, heard there’s an opening in Cleveland. You should fit right in….. Loser!
I think Coach Coughlin should be fired! How come there are no locals in that line-up. Nothing to give the fans a name they know, nobody on that roster that went to Rutgers University, St Johns or any team from New York or New Jersey. And if the locals can’t get a shot on the franchise from the state they live in, why are we fans going to these games. To see some other state, and see our players play for foreign teams (other states) this is the first time in 20 years, the Giants don’t have any locals on their roster.
by The Always Well Dressed... on Aug 24, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
KLOLB
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like this one haha
Team Intervention:
Greg Jones
Tyler Sash
Jason Pierre-Paul
Will Beatty
Justin Trattou
by BigBlueIntervention on Aug 24, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
lol
Hey coughlin, heard there’s an opening in Cleveland. You should fit right in….. Loser!
I think Coach Coughlin should be fired! How come there are no locals in that line-up. Nothing to give the fans a name they know, nobody on that roster that went to Rutgers University, St Johns or any team from New York or New Jersey. And if the locals can’t get a shot on the franchise from the state they live in, why are we fans going to these games. To see some other state, and see our players play for foreign teams (other states) this is the first time in 20 years, the Giants don’t have any locals on their roster.
by The Always Well Dressed... on Aug 24, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah LOL
Steven A. gives us a punchers chance to beat the Cowboys, and no chance to beat the Eagles of course.
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
ESPN update
Driving home and Stephen A. has now given NY to the Jets. based on their two AFC championship losses and the Giants missing the playoffs the last two years.
These clowns are killing me LOL.
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
It's wierd how NYC has more Giant fans but all the people on the sports shows are Jets fans
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
No surprise
Giants have always been blue-collar, just go to work, get the job done without being flashy.
Jets have always been the red-headed bastard step-child, so they’ve had to be brash, outspoken and generally loud to get some attention to say “hey, we exist here too”.
To me the fans follow along about the same lines, so yeah, you’re gonna hear more from Jets fans, while we just go about our daily business.
jets fans need to calm down
alot my friends are Jet fans and as long as they dont start bashing the Giants, my buddy rooted for the eagles last year during the collapse and I snapped and told him you are lucky this your house and I put the horns on the Jets and I hope they never win another game.lol.
Who cares that you went to the AFC title game two years in a row you lost!!! Win the Super Bowl and then you can talk til then STFU
LOL exactly
We lost the SB in 2000 and nobody I mean nobody talks about that team like it was magical. Yet the Jet’s are acting like they are the Patriots
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Its so laughable
how desperate a organization they are and I hope they lose again this year I’m so sick of Rex and his stupid comments. 43 years and counting!
by NYG86-90-07 on Aug 24, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
+100000
They’re scum
I hate the Jets, Justin Bieber, Kardashians, and people in general.
PEYTON > Brady
I like Hixon and Francesa.
by espnsucks ((banned)) on Aug 24, 2011 10:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wrong
Their the greatest fans EVER. The class of the NFL
Hey coughlin, heard there’s an opening in Cleveland. You should fit right in….. Loser!
I think Coach Coughlin should be fired! How come there are no locals in that line-up. Nothing to give the fans a name they know, nobody on that roster that went to Rutgers University, St Johns or any team from New York or New Jersey. And if the locals can’t get a shot on the franchise from the state they live in, why are we fans going to these games. To see some other state, and see our players play for foreign teams (other states) this is the first time in 20 years, the Giants don’t have any locals on their roster.
by The Always Well Dressed... on Aug 24, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
not shocked
last year they said 6-10 and 7-9 (I did a fan post on it because they had so much information wrong)
Hey coughlin, heard there’s an opening in Cleveland. You should fit right in….. Loser!
I think Coach Coughlin should be fired! How come there are no locals in that line-up. Nothing to give the fans a name they know, nobody on that roster that went to Rutgers University, St Johns or any team from New York or New Jersey. And if the locals can’t get a shot on the franchise from the state they live in, why are we fans going to these games. To see some other state, and see our players play for foreign teams (other states) this is the first time in 20 years, the Giants don’t have any locals on their roster.
by The Always Well Dressed... on Aug 24, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
with this schedule
We should be 6-0 or 5-1 the worst come the bye!
by NYG86-90-07 on Aug 24, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
both are clueless
it amazes me that for an ESPN talk show hosts how uninformed they are.
8-8 is reasonable to be honest. I love the Giants, but they do have big holes on the team. Maybe some young guys step up and play well, but only time will tell. Picks don’t work on maybes, they work on what you know about a team.
The Giants don’t know who is the starting or backup TE. Who is the 3rd WR. CB is now devastated, and some of the players they have are injury prone. The LBs are question marks. Without Osi the Dline doesn’t have the quality depth from recent years.
Also the Giants play a reasonable difficult schedule so 8-8 or 7-9 isn’t a stretch. However, they could also be 10-6 again. Who knows.
Cut Beckum
Hard to say it but he is not showing any indication he is going to get better.
The 53 man roster?
Coates should start until they find someone better.
Bear or Ballard as the blocking TE – prob Bear cuz he knows the system and can play FB. Neither is anything great.
Scour the waiver wire for cuts and add someone.
But make a call guys and cut Travis.
Bring lawyers, guns and money to get me out of this one! Stand in the Fire.
+1
I agree…..even if you list him as a WR, is he going to make the team?
i doubt it
hixon, cruz and thomas are all still impressing for the 3rd and so on reciever spots, so what would we need beckum for?
"I like prime rib, and I'd love to win a Super Bowl" -Andy Reid
I think
you can add Barden to that list too, season starts in a couple weeks, can’t even get on the field.
Prove we are wrong, Tom "Medicine Man" Quinn, NOT!
by Great Gatsby on Aug 24, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
PUP
He gets a shot after week 6 if somebody else gets hurt.
Blue is the color of melancholy and honesty
Green is the color of inexperience, envy and nausea.
we heard great things this camp about Beckum
then he doesn’t dress for the first game and is invisible to the Bears game. We have too many players with more potential to keep giving Beckum opportunities.
I'm not sure what others were watching
but Beckum blocked extremely well on Monday night. Pass blocking, run blocking, very encouraging.
This talk of cutting him and replacing him is hilarious. The fact that he did well, and didn’t even have a catch shows that he’s gonna be real effective this season.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Cutting him is hilarious but him doing extrmely well blocking monday night is also hilarious.
You just like the guy and i get it but he showed nothing to assume he will be real effective this season. He didnt dissapoint but he didnt wow in blocking either. He ran off the safeties with a good route that was designed to open up Mario thats about it.
I have faith in him too but im also realistic right now.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
how'd the running game do?
who was blocking in there? Wasn’t always Pascoe or Ballard either. And Beckum stood in there on a few pass plays to protect.
For Beckum, he did extremely well. Laugh all you want, I’m not gonna be the one who’s worried about the TE position. Its settled.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
For Beckum, he did extremely well - lol
I thought his blocking was meh. He was better than Pascoe, imo. He didn’t get totally run over but he got pushed around pretty good. Having said that they are not cutting him. So hopefully Pope has some magic left. Boss wasn’t known as a great blocker either when drafted even though he had the size.
"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning
Beckum
He’ll be pleased to know one guy thinks the position is settled.
Bring lawyers, guns and money to get me out of this one! Stand in the Fire.
again, I'm sure there are many more.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I'm sure
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
??
If having the last word is important to you then respond to this one and that will be it.
You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to think it is always right.
Bring lawyers, guns and money to get me out of this one! Stand in the Fire.
What
does that even mean? If he thinks he’s right, do you really think another one of your nonsensical posts is going to change that? Also, and this is more of a rhetorical question, but when someone has an opinion don’t they usually believe that their opinion is correct?
Welll
The running game did well because Diehl, Baas and Snee played EXCELLENT on the interior and that was obvious, Ballard held his own. Beatty got used, K Mac got used, Bear and Henry had bad blocking nights but you telling me beckum did “extremely well”, naw i didnt see that at all, he did okay, not extremely well, they kept him out of harms way for the most part, unless you think he was gonna block Peppers?
and one of the biggest run plays was a blatant hold by Bear.
TE is only settled in your mind, no one else thinks that not even the decision makers.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
Amen Brother!
He should have been fired years ago
why?
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
because we had a top 5 offense last year, duh
380 yards per game……fire him!
and Im sure...
it has nothing to do with the coach…..
So everything bad is KG and everything good is anyone but KG
Interesting.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
I know Killdrives calls before he calls them every time
If i can do it sitting in my PJ’s, a defensive coordinator can do it in his sleep
Team Juggernaut: Jacobs, Hynoski. No one is safe
we need steve smith. underrated third down receiver. losing son-in-law (o’hara) is going to suck. i think we should have let kiwanuka go and resigned osi. however, since osi doesn’t want to be there, we should trade him for asanti
Then why didn't they?
If the plays are so obvious then why weren’t they stopped. Why didn’t we have a BOTTOM 5 offense? Because, and I remember Parcells using this philosophy, you run the successful plays until they stop you.
Who cares if they know what’s coming if they don’t stop it? We are not a fancy, trick play team. We are a pound and pass team and we’re good at it. No need to mess with what works.
The Giants will probabaly move to LA because they suck so bad
there is play call and then there is execution
First off if you’re referring to preseason post lockout than there’s no point in discussing it
Play calling and execution are two different parts to the game. If eli has 8 seconds to throw someone will get open regardless of the D-co. calling the right defense.
It is possible to have poor play calling and still see results due to proper execution by the offense and possibly poor execition by the defense
Team Juggernaut: Jacobs, Hynoski. No one is safe
we need steve smith. underrated third down receiver. losing son-in-law (o’hara) is going to suck. i think we should have let kiwanuka go and resigned osi. however, since osi doesn’t want to be there, we should trade him for asanti
So then
if the plays work because they learned the plays he drew up, executed the plays he drew up and they work, what part of that is poor play calling?
It’s as if you’re suggesting we call different plays even though the plays we call work just fine.
The Giants will probabaly move to LA because they suck so bad
Coaches call plays, players execute them
Just cause players can execute and out-play other players doesn’t mean the call was a good one. Bad play call but a safety slips=touchdown.
Also, Lets not forget how much Eli will change the call at the line
Team Juggernaut: Jacobs, Hynoski. No one is safe
I guess what I'm saying is
we’re disagreeing about whether KG calls good plays but I don’t see any evidence that the wrong plays are called.
The Giants will probabaly move to LA because they suck so bad
Here's the problem
late in the season they are stopped. We’re way down in every offensive category the last 4 weeks of the season. Opposing teams obviously figure out our tendencies.
The end of last season
can be contributed to a lot of things but I’d say more to bad execution than bad play calling.
The Giants will probabaly move to LA because they suck so bad
because his play calling
hasn’t changed in 4 years and instead of confroming to the players that are drafted.
he makes them conform to his cookie cutter offense.
but i guess we can all rest easy at night knowing that somewhere out there is a worse OC….
TeamJPP
you are just upset...
that he doesnt base the offense around Becks, we all know that you are big fan of him. But they are not going to conform the offense around him.
i'm a big fan of beckum?
really?
I’m not upset at all, just in touch with reality
and let the record show, i been said becks would rot under KG.
and he will….b/c KG has an affinity for WRs. and only uses TEs to basically block.
TeamJPP
and let the record also show....
I wasn’t the one calling becks a Hback 5 seconds after he was drafted….
but never once used him as such.
that man’s name is Kevin Gilbride….
TeamJPP
Cookie cutter??
I think you dont realize that its the furthest thing from cookie cutter, its an offense based on reads, defensive schemes and option routes more so than any other offense in the league, its one of the most multiple offeneses in the league but there in lies the problem.
It is very difficult to catch on to this offense, you have to be telepathically connected almost but when they do get on the same page, it is incredible actually.
Gilbirides offense was prolific last year with 40+ turnovers, subtract 20 of those and we would be thru the roof. look at it for what it really is.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
Nothings changed in Indy's offense in 10 yrs
Nothigs changed in San diego’s offense in 4 yrs
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
dont need to change
Because it works and doesnt defy the rules of football every week. running when he should pass and pass when he should run. That O puts up numbers because of Eli is masterful and reading the coverage at the line and the players not because of Wilfred Brimleys play calling.
by NYG86-90-07 on Aug 24, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
SO the guy calling the plays is not the one who tought him how to read
Defenses and coverages for his own offense that he designed??
and We send in two plays, a run and a pass, so the whole running when u should pass and passing when you should run is on Eli for the most part.
I dont see anything wrong with our offense besides turnovers and poor execution at bad times. Play calling can get better but i think that goes for all coordinators IMHO.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
the turn overs are also a result of the same generic WR routes
Asante Samuel made a living off playing against Eli.
even a dumb Cowboys Rookie was jumping that route to Nicks in the endzone this past year…b/c KG ran the same damn play 2 weeks prior vs. Dallas.
Philly knows our damn Offense better than our own players do!
TeamJPP
the only misdirection plays
are the plays Eli makes up on his own.
like when the fake the screen to AB and throw to Nicks up top
that is ELI’s play
TeamJPP
for the record...
there is one play call i noticed vs. chicago that i liked.
ONE
it was the one where Cruz caught that ball.
it was a screen at the line and Cruz utilized it to get open just enough….
that was a decent play by KG….i’ll admit that.
TeamJPP
Killdrive is thw worst.
I watch the screen saying, you know they really should do A, but Killdrive is going to call B….yup B…4th down? Great.
You have to get past the first down marker to get a first down…grrrrr
Team Juggernaut: Jacobs, Hynoski. No one is safe
we need steve smith. underrated third down receiver. losing son-in-law (o’hara) is going to suck. i think we should have let kiwanuka go and resigned osi. however, since osi doesn’t want to be there, we should trade him for asanti
Generic WR routes???
Maaan we run option routes all day, its the receivers choice depending on how the CB plays him.
not to mention its only so many routes in football.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
yes but the route is designed before hand
and depending on the defense you adjust accordingly.
which means either you break it off or go up top.
but the route is pre determined before hand…and any smart DB (and even the dumb ones © McCann in dallas) realize what’s coming….
TeamJPP
Ok
hmmm that route that Mccann picked off was not an option route it was a slant and thats it and Nicks commited the cardinal sin on a slant, he let the corner cross his face…….Giilbride had NOTHING to do with that.
Stop acting like you have to surprise a defense to win, you have to execute better and thats it.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
who cares if it was an option route or not?
it was run two weeks prior (or 3 weeks prior) vs them!
Even Garrett who was a new HC….knew how to go about defending that play….
and IMO it was KG’s fault….b/c say what you want about Nicks, and yes, he coulda done a better job, but he was beat…he was had. So was Eli. The ball didn’t even leave his hand and McCann was all over that route like flies on you know what. He jumped it from the snap.
Sure Nicks coulda done better, but Eli shoulda ate it! Or if it was an option route maybe they could broke it off and went up top. But no. They ran the same damn play.
i mean, w/ that sort of thinking….is it ever the coaches fault? I’m asking for real. Or is it always on the players? How you can justify running the same play…over and over. They ran it in Seattle too if i remember correctly. heck they were running it all year up until that pick 6
TeamJPP
ok for example
BJ and AB will run it down thier throats and we get down to the 10 he goes shotgun empty backfield really? no Playaction after you just crushed the D running! and why so complex? cant the Qb makes the reads instead of WR like the rest of the league. And why is Eli so good in the 2 minute offense? HE CALLS THE PLAYS! I watch every snap like most of you guys do and it looks like the same 10 plays every game.
by NYG86-90-07 on Aug 24, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
hey now
that works
Team Intervention:
Greg Jones
Tyler Sash
Jason Pierre-Paul
Will Beatty
Justin Trattou
by BigBlueIntervention on Aug 24, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
true
I why not bring in Dj Ware and throw him the ball in the flat mix it up…D’rel Scott if he makes the team he will ride the pine all year unless some one gets hurt. Put the damn kid in the game! design some plays for him
by NYG86-90-07 on Aug 24, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Ware
I didn’t like his ball security, not just on the challenged and reversed goal line fumble, but on the play after where he spun and slammed the ball far from his body for the TD.
Yes, he got the TD, but plenty of time a back will lose the ball trying to make that play. Keep the ball near your body.
I’m not impressed by that at all.
"Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand."
Anyone ever think about putting both AB and BJ in the backfield at the same time.
so many options. A power O with BJ blocking. Play action with one blocking and the other with a route. A hand off to BJ slotted in the fullback position. That awesome double hand off with BJ running in one direction and AB in the other. The misdirection possibilities would be amazing.
Team Juggernaut: Jacobs, Hynoski. No one is safe
we need steve smith. underrated third down receiver. losing son-in-law (o’hara) is going to suck. i think we should have let kiwanuka go and resigned osi. however, since osi doesn’t want to be there, we should trade him for asanti
thanks Jared
I forgot to mention that also…
by NYG86-90-07 on Aug 24, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Lemme repeat that 42 turnovers
and still a top 10 offense, with a 10-6 record, that is actually AMAZING.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
Yeah, -3 in the TO ratio overall
and winning 10 games and missing the playoffs and losing the division on tie-breakers.
"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning
I did see good communication at the line on both sides of the ball.
When everyone is on the same page the sky is the limit with this O.
Any chance they’re saving Beckum’s receiving skills for the season? These are PRESEASON plays they’re calling here.
by Last year in Sec 127 on Aug 24, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Who was the TE when Gilbride was running the run and shoot?
The receivers were Drew Hill, Ernest Givins, Haywood Jefferies and Curtis Duncan.
Who was the TE again??
Warren moon, of course..
so we remember the QB and the WR’s.. that should tell us the emphasis of gilbride’s offense. As long as we have this coaching staff, forget about the TE as an offensive weapon.
i know...i was just pointing out the fact that the QB
in that run and shoot wasn’t too shaby in fact….he was fuggin’ awesome
TeamJPP
I don't recall them using him at the point of attack..
…like Pascoe.
Beckum’s not the blocking tight end. The question is he adequate enough as both a blocker and receiver so that when he’s im the game, its not a “tell” as to whether it’s run or pass.
Right now he’s on the edge in both areas IMO.
Blue is the color of melancholy and honesty
Green is the color of inexperience, envy and nausea.
by roguetrader on Aug 24, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I rewatched the first team offense again
and he most definitely was in there. He’s not the blocking TE at all, but that he was in there in a practice game to see if he could block, that’s doing well and showing a lot.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
actually, looking closely at the tape, he did do a good blocking job
He even held off Peppers on a power rush forcing him around enough to give the play time. Best TE block of the night.
It wasn’t a sexy performance from him, but he blocked better than Pascoe or Ballard. I didn’t see enough of Coats blocking.
But I agree we should look hard to add a TE.
"Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand."
I thought Beckum played decent too
He did have a few nice blocks and he was responsible for making Ham’s catch over the middle on 3rd and long because he cleared out the middle on his route.
I’m not sold that the position is totally his, but he has improved.
I think him and Bear are locks, I’d like to see more of Coats though.
Nah
The biggest reason to dump him?
Manning has no faith in the guy and even when he is open and Manning sees him Eli throws elsewhere. Several people on this board noticed that.
And I am not sure who else saw him play well so what were you watching? You are the first and only to say he played well. He was invisible, which is better than mistakes but I did not see him block anybody especially well.
Bring lawyers, guns and money to get me out of this one! Stand in the Fire.
then that's on Eli.
its his fault he’s not seeing open receivers. And no, I’m not the only one that saw him block well. Its just that the boxscore watchers are the only ones awake right now.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
its simple.....
Nicks, Bradshaw, Ham, Jacobs, Hixon, Cruz….and I wont throw Barden in there because he hasnt been on the field yet. But I dont see Becks being a better option then any of these guys, and when you compare him to the TE’s on the roster right now, he is the weakest blocker…..so why protect him?
I'm not sure he is the weakest blocker judging by how Pascoe and Ballard played
and again, if Eli’s not looking for him that’s on him. If he wants to wait while Cruz picks his nose trying to figure out where he needs to line up…that’s on Eli.
Hopefully when they’re looking at the pictures on the sideline they’re looking at more then how Snee’s ass looks.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Eli sees Beckum
He just won’t throw to him
At least that’s the way it looks to a few people on this board
If that’s the case it is a problem and it’s not on Eli.
Bring lawyers, guns and money to get me out of this one! Stand in the Fire.
Eli doesn't throw to the guy that's open
and that’s the guy that’s open’s fault? Got it.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Check the YAC from last year vs Boss
And Boss is only slightly above average.
Me thinks you are biased.
He was open a few times, don’t know why Eli did not throw to him.
I still don’t think much of him.
Time will tell.
All the Giants should play like Mark Bavaro.
Tom Quinn Must Go!
It is equally worthless when people are always optimistic as it is when they are always pessimistic. Either way I take their opinion with a pound of salt because I know they only have one setting. I post my own thoughts, not what either side wants to read.
by UnknownJintsFan on Aug 24, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
what does Boss's YAC have to do with this?
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe that eli wants to throw to guys who can get YAC
because 99.9% of the time, when boss is targeted, he gets destroyed, idk, just an idea
"I like prime rib, and I'd love to win a Super Bowl" -Andy Reid
so....
and that means he doesn’t want to throw to Beckum? OK, got it. LOL.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
not quite
but what i said was more of a guess as to why boss had a low YAC average
"I like prime rib, and I'd love to win a Super Bowl" -Andy Reid
Boss's YAC/Beckum's YAC
Boss’s was 6.68, Beckums was 3.0
Neither is impressive but certainly shows a difference.
All the Giants should play like Mark Bavaro.
Tom Quinn Must Go!
It is equally worthless when people are always optimistic as it is when they are always pessimistic. Either way I take their opinion with a pound of salt because I know they only have one setting. I post my own thoughts, not what either side wants to read.
by UnknownJintsFan on Aug 24, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
What does YAC have to do with it?
Maybe Eli wants to throw to someone that gets YAC, not falls down. What a concept. I am saying that Beckum, to date, has not proven he is a good receiver nor one that gets YAC. I compared him to a TE that blocks much better and has much better YAC but is only considered “good”. What is it that Beckum has done (not what we think he can do) that makes him so special?
Overall, I am not sure why you question the value of YAC in his evaluation.
Are you married to Beckum or something? He has produced nothing tangible yet but you seem to defend him to the death. Give me tangibles that can be measured.
All the Giants should play like Mark Bavaro.
Tom Quinn Must Go!
It is equally worthless when people are always optimistic as it is when they are always pessimistic. Either way I take their opinion with a pound of salt because I know they only have one setting. I post my own thoughts, not what either side wants to read.
by UnknownJintsFan on Aug 24, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
are you mixing up Beckum with Steve Smith?
And yea, I’m getting tired of defending Beckum but its cuz its so annoying that so many have no idea what the guy is capable of, simply writing it off in a way that Mike Francesca would be proud of, “If I didn’t see it it’ll never happen!!!”
Boss getting all those YAC yards should show that the TE should be used as a downfield threat here and that should make people wonder how good Beckum could be if he had the ball in his hands during those plays. Cuz he’s sure as hell quicker and faster then the lumbering Boss.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Becks is faster and more agile than Boss was
but so what?
When he did have the ball in his hands, his YAC was about 1/2 of the slower and lumbering Boss. Question is why? I don’t know but I do know that it happend.
You keep defending with what you think, not measurables.
Duke Calhoun is faster than both of them so should he be a TE too? Speed is not the answer. Blocking and other productivity is.
We agree on one thing, the TE position is not used well in the KG offense.
We’ll see. How about an agreement? If Beckum has a good year, I’ll write about it. If he fails to produce again, you write about it? And let’s not blame KG for the results. Becks has to be so good they use him. He has not been able to accomplish that so far.
All the Giants should play like Mark Bavaro.
Tom Quinn Must Go!
It is equally worthless when people are always optimistic as it is when they are always pessimistic. Either way I take their opinion with a pound of salt because I know they only have one setting. I post my own thoughts, not what either side wants to read.
by UnknownJintsFan on Aug 24, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Beckum is faster and more agile then Boss
so then when they actually throw him the ball in the routes that Boss had, which they could’ve on Monday, he’ll get those YAC and thensome.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
see there in lies the problem
everyone knows Becks is out there to catch passes.
everyone knew Boss was out there to block….90% of the time. so when Boss was catching passes he was doing so on LBs and smaller Safeties.
Beckum…well…as i said above. he’ll be a glorified WR in this offense and really won’t fool anyone. he’ll get matched up w/ CBs primarily.
just my thoughts on that.
TeamJPP
I'd rather have Beckum on a CB
much better matchup than a LB.
"They're going to expect me to go out there and play better to win games, and I expect that from myself, ... There's no reason for me not to go out there and play at a high level."- Eli Manning
SB 42 was forever ago, that being said, we need to try and pick up a good GM in the free agency!!!!
by ManningHam and Cheese on Aug 24, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
How do you not?
A LB is as big or bigger than he is, def. weighs more. Beckum is only slightly faster than the average LB as well. If he’s on a corner, he’s got the height advantage, the strength advantage, the overall size advantage. All he’s going to give up really is speed, but he can use his size and strength to ward off CBs and out position them for a ball. He def. is a tougher match up for a CB than a LB, it’s not even close really.
"They're going to expect me to go out there and play better to win games, and I expect that from myself, ... There's no reason for me not to go out there and play at a high level."- Eli Manning
SB 42 was forever ago, that being said, we need to try and pick up a good GM in the free agency!!!!
by ManningHam and Cheese on Aug 24, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
so than why don't they must call him a WR and be done with it?
and for the record, i don’t agree w/ anythign you just said.
Beckum should be matched up against slow footed LBs creating space and betting them off the ball.
he may be bigger than a CB but they’ll read his breaks before he even makes ‘em….and they’ll jump his routes before he can even post them up.
kinda like what Asante Samuel did when they matched Becks up against him in Philly….Pick 6….first play of the game.
that was KG’s hand picked play that he draws up…..
TeamJPP
he'll get ping pong balled by linebackers
"They're going to expect me to go out there and play better to win games, and I expect that from myself, ... There's no reason for me not to go out there and play at a high level."- Eli Manning
SB 42 was forever ago, that being said, we need to try and pick up a good GM in the free agency!!!!
by ManningHam and Cheese on Aug 24, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
its only a problem if you choose to look at it as one
see, they ran and passed with Beckum in there. They even kept him in to block on more then a few occasions. Kind of sounds like what any old TE would do, right?
In fact, kind of sounds like some added deception.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
what does that even mean?
if i think it’s a problem it is? and if i don’t it isin’t?
well i think it is….
so i guess it is right?
i’m lost
TeamJPP
I dunno where you're lost
all I know is that when you choose to look at it as the offense will be predictable, I guess there’s no changing that idea.
Beckum in the game doesn’t tip off the defense to run or pass, that’s already been shown in this preseason. Whether that shows up in real games, who knows.
Fact of the matter is the offense was predictable when we had Boss in there anyway. Whether Beckum changes that remains to be seen.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
no it does not tip off run / pass
but when Becks is lining up in the slot (as a glorified WR)….he better be able to move like a WR and get open…against CBs b/c IMO that’s who he’ll be facing.
which is fine….as long as he’s up for that
I just don’t know if it’s smart to use a TE in that role. I’d sooner see Barden doing that.
but alas….
TeamJPP
Supposition on your part
Once again, possible but not proven.
To date, he has not done so.
Do you agree to write as above? Or will you keep touting him if he fails to produce again?
I guess you won’t relent, you can have the last post. I keep wanting proof and there is none, just opinion.
The facts are on my side at this time. Write whatever you want.
All the Giants should play like Mark Bavaro.
Tom Quinn Must Go!
It is equally worthless when people are always optimistic as it is when they are always pessimistic. Either way I take their opinion with a pound of salt because I know they only have one setting. I post my own thoughts, not what either side wants to read.
by UnknownJintsFan on Aug 24, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Well you keep acting as if there's facts on your side
when its the same thing. You want him to fail just cuz you haven’t seen him succeed. Why? I dunno, just seems like an easy cop out.
And yea, I’ll write that he’s a bust after this year. As long as he’s healthy for 16 games and they don’t use him again, then fine. I doubt that’ll be the case tho, there’s really not much choice for the team if they want to be good.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
See above
Fact:
Boss YAC 6.68, Beckum 3.0.
Dispute it with numbers or show me numbers that make Beckum good. That is what we call fact, not opinion.
No I do not want Beckum to fail, I think he is failing on his own. If he does well, the Giants do well so why would I want him to fail.
You are very personally invested. Fact.
All the Giants should play like Mark Bavaro.
Tom Quinn Must Go!
It is equally worthless when people are always optimistic as it is when they are always pessimistic. Either way I take their opinion with a pound of salt because I know they only have one setting. I post my own thoughts, not what either side wants to read.
by UnknownJintsFan on Aug 24, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
3.68 more yards per catch means he's better?
that’s your facts? Sounds like straws. I couldn’t care less whether Beckum is cut or not, I just want to see the Giants succeed.
And they’re failing themselves not trying to get him involved more.
But what I saw from him on the field, blocking and clearing space for other receivers, he did well. Much better then the other TEs on the roster that’s for sure.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
So
More than double YAC and a better blocker means nothing?
You still have NO proof of your allegations.
But you personally cannot admit you have been proven wrong.
Go ahead, have the last post. Show me all the facts you have against my “straw”. If you do, it will be an empty post.
All the Giants should play like Mark Bavaro.
Tom Quinn Must Go!
It is equally worthless when people are always optimistic as it is when they are always pessimistic. Either way I take their opinion with a pound of salt because I know they only have one setting. I post my own thoughts, not what either side wants to read.
by UnknownJintsFan on Aug 24, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL at this last post stuff
you haven’t proven anything wrong. If Boss had 2 YAC and Beckum 1, it’d be double..but would anyone care?
Its a small sample, Beckum had 13 catches last year Boss had 35. You haven’t proven anything. Beckum has one catch and a bunch of YAC and its equal, so who cares.
So go head, whine about the “last post”.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
not his fault
just the way the cookie crumbles. Do you want Coughlin to go to Eli and say, come on cool it with Nicks and Hammy, I want you to start looking for Becks.
I'd expect him to start tell him to look for open receivers and stop forcing the ball to Nicks and Ham
yea.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
ok, Eli doesnt throw to Becks....
I get it, but facts are facts, we are not designing our offense around Becks. For some reason Eli may not be comfortable with him, so are you seriously suggesting forcing Eli to be comfortable with him? Eli is our starting QB, we should cater to him more then we should cater to Becks, a guy that has done nothing in this league.
Then you hate on Cruz
Who actually showed something, waaaaay more than Beckum did, try being objective. Cruz screwed up a few times but he showed his value both in the passing game and on ST.
Be fair but i know you cant do that from speaking to u for this long. you have your people that you ride or die for, guess i gotta respect that tho.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
hate?
no, that’s the truth. Cruz couldn’t figure out how to get lined up.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
but he caught the ball
imagine that, an end who can catch the ball
Bring lawyers, guns and money to get me out of this one! Stand in the Fire.
can't catch it when you don't have anything thrown to you
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Did not start that way
Eli lost confidence in Beckum for a reason.
Bring lawyers, guns and money to get me out of this one! Stand in the Fire.
Not sure the confidence is "lost".
actually, pretty certain its not.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you think the routes are different
for Beckum than they were for Boss?
To be honest, I don’t think Beckum could handle some of those blow up shots that Boss has taken over the middle or on that seam route.
I think Beckum will get open much quicker then Boss
and the throw will be there before that. Eli most likely isn’t used to a plodding TE running across the middle.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Blocking is so hard to watch
I couldn’t tell you right now how he did… I’d really have to go back and re-watch the game. Even a noteworthy good block is usually lost in the fray if you’re not specifically watching the guy in question.
Since I’m not going to go watch the game again, I’ll just hope you’re right and his blocking is improving, because thats clearly the best case scenario here.
I can say I didn’t see anything negative from him, which is not the case when it comes to Pascoe and Hynoski. I’m particularly surprised with Hynoski given his reputation around here. Still, its early and I imagine he’ll come around.
your mom goes to college
by Oppenheimer919 on Aug 24, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes
you have to re watch the game to judge most things, no different from coaches, i replay the games over n over and watch specific things, its the only way to make a fair assesment.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
I think he has faith in him
He just favors some others more and to be frank HAM was open on every play, he seems to win 99% of the time but he needs to hang on to the ball. Beckum should not be cut at all. he needs to step up and TAKE his role thats all.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
Comfort level...
has got to be there for Eli to trust Beckum…and thus far it hasn’t been happening. Probably need to keep an eye on the waiver wires to pick some one else up. I’ll have to keep my eye on Coats…he may be a sleeper.
by oldschoolblue64 on Aug 24, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Coatts is the man
Right now and that isn’t saying much but dude blocks well and thats what we need if were gonna pound the rock.
Why is Tom Quinn still here? I loves me some Coach Clawfin.
I like him too
Can catch and block. I think Beckum, Bear, Coates.
But that does not mean I like Beckum and I don’t think TC is happy either. We shall see.
All the Giants should play like Mark Bavaro.
Tom Quinn Must Go!
It is equally worthless when people are always optimistic as it is when they are always pessimistic. Either way I take their opinion with a pound of salt because I know they only have one setting. I post my own thoughts, not what either side wants to read.
by UnknownJintsFan on Aug 24, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Bear is the only one on the roster than can handle the case load
of a Giants TE IMO but i think playing FB might be messing his TE technique up or something. whatever it is, i hope he gets it together because if he doesnt we will be a TE by rotation team and thats not what we like to do.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
Bear looked like he didn't even deserve a roster spot on Monday night.
He got demolished multiple times trying to block at TE, looked far worse than Beckum, and he was ineffective blocking at FB as well. Got away with a monster hold on the Jacobs TD run. Beckum easily blocked better Monday then Bear did. It wasn’t even close.
"They're going to expect me to go out there and play better to win games, and I expect that from myself, ... There's no reason for me not to go out there and play at a high level."- Eli Manning
SB 42 was forever ago, that being said, we need to try and pick up a good GM in the free agency!!!!
by ManningHam and Cheese on Aug 24, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup that was Monday but
Bear has waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better blocking on tape, trust me, so comparing Bears blocking in the trenches and FB spot to a guy blocking from the slot and sometimes at TE with help is not a fair comparison.
You shouldnt even mention Bear and Beckum in the same sentence when it comes to blocking, we all know the truth.
Beckum did good though, but dont overstate it.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
I'm not overstating anything.
He out performed Bear at TE in regards to blocking. Just making a counter point to you saying Bear is the only TE we have that can handle the full load. Obviously not, if Beckum out blocked him. The game essentially disproved what you said, in a big way. I’m not saying Beckum is the better blocker, that’s nonsense, just saying maybe he can handle it, he handled it Monday, and did it better than the guy who you think is the only one capable.
"They're going to expect me to go out there and play better to win games, and I expect that from myself, ... There's no reason for me not to go out there and play at a high level."- Eli Manning
SB 42 was forever ago, that being said, we need to try and pick up a good GM in the free agency!!!!
by ManningHam and Cheese on Aug 24, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
You are missing what he is telling you
Beckum blocked CBs when he was in the slot (something a WR would do) or was part of a double block with a OL. Bear was asked to mano e mano block LBs and DL players. That simply isn’t a fair comparison. Beckum wasn’t even asked to try to block these guys because the coaches know he can’t handle it. Bear was being asked to do it from FB and from the inline Y spot. Added difficulty there because you are trying to change technique back and forth as you get swapped from spot to spot. I think you’d see more out of Bear if he got to stick to either TE or FB rather than constantly rotating around. Saying Beckum showed more than him just isn’t true based on what they were asked to do.
Probably true
But I’ll be the guy wondering when Beckum is going to deliver at least SOME value, when his time is up and when JR has the stones to cut a high draft pick (see Sintim)
But I’ll give JR credit. I wondered if he had the stones to cut O’Hara and he did.
Bring lawyers, guns and money to get me out of this one! Stand in the Fire.
Jake Ballard
I think he can be special, for the few times he was in, I think he did an adequate job, being that he has not had much playing time. Dude is big, strong and can catch. Reminds me of KB.
I actually thought after
Re-watching the first preseason game agains Carolina that he did a pretty good job blocking. I haven’t gotten the chance to re-watch the bears game and key in on him yet..
"I'm not superstitious but i am a little stitious" - Eli Manning
by Giants Fly High on Aug 24, 2011 10:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
he's also a little slow and clumsy
has trouble with speed and then lunges off balance to catch up to block.
The guy has some limits.
"Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand."
Actually...
He’s really not that slow.Don’t forget he is fresh off the practice squad so he’s thinking to much instead of reacting.Especially when it comes to blocking. He’s still a year or two from being something.Problem is we need something now.
"Can't win with Tom Quinn"
Ok so I'll ask the question then
How much do we really care if whoever the TE winds up being is only a marginal weapon in the passing game?
The run game sure looked pretty strong from where I was sitting the other night. I guess its hard to see running game / ball control NOT being the primary strategy here. If they keep the carries balanced between AB and BJ, provided guys stay healthy they are shaping up to be a force.
So really… obviously the more weapons in the passing game, the better. But IMO they don’t really “need” a great route runner at TE. If they find a guy who can push people around, and manage to not drop the ball if it happens to hit his hands, I think they may have found their answer (high profile player or not). Fortunately, I bet they can find a guy like that. Not everybody has to be Dallas Clark running down the seam. JMO
your mom goes to college
Yup
Diehl, Baas and Snee may be the very best interior linemen unit nest to those guys down in the New Orleans.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
Reading Pat Traina's breakdown of the games (must be a subscriber)..
she often noticed how O’hara wasn’t strong enough at the POA and we could use help there. Baas may prove that theory correct. If the Bears game is true to form, we should be strong up the gut and probably help in short yardage conversions.
That's very accurate.
Bass is a road grader. He blocked 3 guys on the screen play the other night, at once. O’hara was good at keeping his man where he was, in essence, you had to run around him. Bass you can follow that monster all the way to the end zone.
"They're going to expect me to go out there and play better to win games, and I expect that from myself, ... There's no reason for me not to go out there and play at a high level."- Eli Manning
SB 42 was forever ago, that being said, we need to try and pick up a good GM in the free agency!!!!
by ManningHam and Cheese on Aug 24, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I certainly hope so.
Gaining that one yard we needed is something that we haven’t done consistently for some time now, maybe two seasons. I’m looking forward to Baas and the O line this season
I wish Killdrive would throw the ball to AB and get him involved in the passing game
We are not getting a pass catching TE this season, It’s time to look at other positions to utilize in the passing game and throwing to the backs might help. I don’t think Beckum is going to help and we have to face reality that, the Giants wasted a pick on an H back, hell Killdrive does not know how to use a true TE, how is he going to figure out how to use an H-Back.
If Beckum is going to be successful in the NFL I doubt it will be with the Giants.
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
AB did get a decent amount of catches. Not LeSean McCoy status, but enough
where it keeps defenses honest to a degree.
Team Intervention:
Greg Jones
Tyler Sash
Jason Pierre-Paul
Will Beatty
Justin Trattou
by BigBlueIntervention on Aug 24, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I want to see BJake get a swing pass from Eli though and just start trucking up.
Team Intervention:
Greg Jones
Tyler Sash
Jason Pierre-Paul
Will Beatty
Justin Trattou
by BigBlueIntervention on Aug 24, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I love B Jacobs
But the guy has hands of stone, maybe he can improve if they practice throwing to him, because he is downright scary in space.
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep
second worst hands on the team, actually first now that Hedgehog is gone.
I don’t think he is going to improve at this point?
Prove we are wrong, Tom "Medicine Man" Quinn, NOT!
by Great Gatsby on Aug 24, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Aug 30 or Sept 3rd
Might be the day we find someone, I could see JR going after a veteran on the cheap.
It would be another free agent frenzy maybe, this time we can get it on it.
If the Skins cut Sellers I would pick him up in a heartbeat as a TE/FB
You can see a lot just by observing-Yogi Berra
See thread above
Blue is the color of melancholy and honesty
Green is the color of inexperience, envy and nausea.
by roguetrader on Aug 24, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
re: Does anyone want to plat T.E. ?
Was at the game on Mon. & noticed that as the gm. went on Beckum was on the sideline more & more. In fact many times the Giants had a O lineman playing t.e. They will probably be watching the waivers as we get close to opening day. The question is how much under the salary cap we will be if we sign a couple of cornerbacks to spend on a t.e.
Nice to see BBV isn't on IR
I was too effin depressed to check in yesterday……….
Blue is the color of melancholy and honesty
Green is the color of inexperience, envy and nausea.
never. we might complain alot, though.
Team Intervention:
Greg Jones
Tyler Sash
Jason Pierre-Paul
Will Beatty
Justin Trattou
by BigBlueIntervention on Aug 24, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
not really sure how to judge Beckum
still think the biggest problem with him is that KG just has no idea how to use him. If you are asking a guy that’s 240lbs to block these freak of nature D-linemen, then that’s just not fair. With Beckum, i really think he needs space to pick up these blocks, similar to how a RB picks up blocks.
with that being said, my guess is that they are more worried about his blocking this year. but, he’s just not going to blow guys off the LOS. i would say, as long as he is getting in the way and staying in the way that’s a success. we know he can make plays when he is healthy and gets an opportunity. Eli does need to use him though when he is out there. but as even Beckum has said, last year they knew it was going to be a pass when he was in the game, so maybe they are trying to mix it up a little.
KG has also ignored the TE position for a long time. Shokey cried for years about blocking all of the time, and that being a reason for his injuries. Shienko (sp?) was a blocking TE for us too, we never threw to him.. look what happened when he went to Minn. Hell, Boss was a nice receiving option, but we barely threw to him either.. never understood why.. i do think a TE needs to be able to block, but you need to use them to their strengths, and that’s not something the Giants have done with their TE’s in a long long time.
Beckum is the classic
Squre peg trying to be put into a round hole.
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with Rorschach re:Beckum
His blocking was solid. It wasn’t perfect, and he often got pushed backwards, but considering we thought Beckum was just another WR….it’s something to write home about.
One thing I don’t like about Beckum is that he ain’t a big enough target to clear out an area.
…
Yes, I know he did that this game, but from what I saw, it was one play. The other routes he ran, he sort of got lost. That’s got to be fixed.
Team Intervention:
Greg Jones
Tyler Sash
Jason Pierre-Paul
Will Beatty
Justin Trattou
by BigBlueIntervention on Aug 24, 2011 10:10 AM EDT reply actions
Via Rotoworld
Giants GM Jerry Reese said he expects first-round CB Prince Amukamara (foot) to return in Week 5.
Amukamara had a pin inserted in his foot to stabilize the fractured bone. He’s expecting to ditch his cast and scooter in about two weeks, right around the Giants’ season opener. With Terrell Thomas (ACL) and Bruce Johnson (ruptured Achilles) out for the season, Amukamara will be thrown into the fire as soon as he is ready.
Team Intervention:
Greg Jones
Tyler Sash
Jason Pierre-Paul
Will Beatty
Justin Trattou
by BigBlueIntervention on Aug 24, 2011 10:11 AM EDT reply actions
Real question is how much can we expect Prince to contribute.
He might be on the field but he is so far behind in learning the pro game.
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
If Fewell allowed the corners to play press, then Prince might be able to contribute right away
Cweb, Ross, and Prince are prototypical press corners.
Team Intervention:
Greg Jones
Tyler Sash
Jason Pierre-Paul
Will Beatty
Justin Trattou
by BigBlueIntervention on Aug 24, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
scooter?
tell me he isnt driving around in one of those things old ladies use at the grocery store
your mom goes to college
by Oppenheimer919 on Aug 24, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
lol
I was thinking the same thing
Hey coughlin, heard there’s an opening in Cleveland. You should fit right in….. Loser!
I think Coach Coughlin should be fired! How come there are no locals in that line-up. Nothing to give the fans a name they know, nobody on that roster that went to Rutgers University, St Johns or any team from New York or New Jersey. And if the locals can’t get a shot on the franchise from the state they live in, why are we fans going to these games. To see some other state, and see our players play for foreign teams (other states) this is the first time in 20 years, the Giants don’t have any locals on their roster.
by The Always Well Dressed... on Aug 24, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Week 5 is a great time to come back
Home against Seattle, home against Buffalo, and then the bye. It doesn’t get much sweeter than that.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Sweet. He's got a scooter.
"They're going to expect me to go out there and play better to win games, and I expect that from myself, ... There's no reason for me not to go out there and play at a high level."- Eli Manning
SB 42 was forever ago, that being said, we need to try and pick up a good GM in the free agency!!!!
by ManningHam and Cheese on Aug 24, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
could beckum be used as a slot receiver?
I mean he is a good athlete and has illusiveness. At 235 lbs he could handle the pounding a receiver takes in that position.
Thats what he is.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
Possibly...
Not sure if he is quick enough to get in and out.
by Last year in Sec 127 on Aug 24, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
He could be inline as a potential steve smith replacement
and compete with Jernigan and Cruz for that spot, not TE.
If anybody cares, Kerry Collins signed with Indianapolis
Team Intervention:
Greg Jones
Tyler Sash
Jason Pierre-Paul
Will Beatty
Justin Trattou
by BigBlueIntervention on Aug 24, 2011 10:46 AM EDT reply actions
so much for retirement
maybe a Peyton watch is for real
Hey coughlin, heard there’s an opening in Cleveland. You should fit right in….. Loser!
I think Coach Coughlin should be fired! How come there are no locals in that line-up. Nothing to give the fans a name they know, nobody on that roster that went to Rutgers University, St Johns or any team from New York or New Jersey. And if the locals can’t get a shot on the franchise from the state they live in, why are we fans going to these games. To see some other state, and see our players play for foreign teams (other states) this is the first time in 20 years, the Giants don’t have any locals on their roster.
by The Always Well Dressed... on Aug 24, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Eli would hold the record for most consecutive games for an active player then
ZOMG
Team Intervention:
Greg Jones
Tyler Sash
Jason Pierre-Paul
Will Beatty
Justin Trattou
by BigBlueIntervention on Aug 24, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
don't matter
He still ain’t better then Carson Palmer
Hey coughlin, heard there’s an opening in Cleveland. You should fit right in….. Loser!
I think Coach Coughlin should be fired! How come there are no locals in that line-up. Nothing to give the fans a name they know, nobody on that roster that went to Rutgers University, St Johns or any team from New York or New Jersey. And if the locals can’t get a shot on the franchise from the state they live in, why are we fans going to these games. To see some other state, and see our players play for foreign teams (other states) this is the first time in 20 years, the Giants don’t have any locals on their roster.
by The Always Well Dressed... on Aug 24, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I've always liked Carson Palmer
He’s classy
Team Juggernaut: Jacobs, Hynoski. No one is safe
we need steve smith. underrated third down receiver. losing son-in-law (o’hara) is going to suck. i think we should have let kiwanuka go and resigned osi. however, since osi doesn’t want to be there, we should trade him for asanti
nah
He’s been hit too many times.
Team Juggernaut: Jacobs, Hynoski. No one is safe
we need steve smith. underrated third down receiver. losing son-in-law (o’hara) is going to suck. i think we should have let kiwanuka go and resigned osi. however, since osi doesn’t want to be there, we should trade him for asanti
I couldn't agree more
nothing against Beckum but he’s just not a TE. I didn’t see anyone working the middle of the field and it’s allowing the LB’s to key on the run.
Beckum might be good – but just on another team
Please get Phil Simms in the Hall of Fame
I've been scrathing my head about why we drafted Beckum since he came here
I get on Killdrive all the time, but he does have his strengths and develops young recievers pretty good and has won a SB as a coordinator. Kevin keeps it pretty simple and the TE has never been a big weapon in his offense. I don’t undersand who thought Killdrive would be able to use a player like Beckum when he could not really figure out how to utilize guys like Shockey or Boss. I don’t know how good or bad Beckum is because he has never been used correctly since he has gotten here.
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
We've been talking about this since we drafted him
Telling Reese its better to fit need i our system than draft talent and try to fit a round peg in a square hole
Team Juggernaut: Jacobs, Hynoski. No one is safe
we need steve smith. underrated third down receiver. losing son-in-law (o’hara) is going to suck. i think we should have let kiwanuka go and resigned osi. however, since osi doesn’t want to be there, we should trade him for asanti
its tought to draft need for the system
cuz like Clint Sintim was drafted for Spags’ system, or at least what they hoped Sheridan would do, then the coach leaves and eventually you have a Tampa 2, a spot where the guy doesn’t fit.
Beckum was a BPA type pick. Gilbride has been rumored plenty of times to be leaving, then all of a sudden you get an OC that understands how the NFL works today and they’re pitching tents on the different ways to get Beckum the rock.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
The sounds more like an orgaizational problem
Team Juggernaut: Jacobs, Hynoski. No one is safe
we need steve smith. underrated third down receiver. losing son-in-law (o’hara) is going to suck. i think we should have let kiwanuka go and resigned osi. however, since osi doesn’t want to be there, we should trade him for asanti
You decide the type of football team you want to be
and you acquire the right PLAYERS and hire the right COACHES for that type of football team. It’s quite simple and falls on the GM to actually have a modest degree of vision for the team. A random hodge podging of players and coaches slapped together is not going to be successful regardless of how talented each one is individually. It’s like Parcells said it isn’t necessarily the best players that make the best team, but the best team wins. If Reese wants the kind of football team that uses a Beckum style TE he has the wrong coaching staff. If Reese wants a team that runs a KG style offense he needs a different TE. It is neither Beckum’s or KG’s fault, it is Reese’s period. Him and his “BPA type picks” rather than taking a strategic approach to building a team.
Coughlin makes the decision on the players too
so pretty sure he’s making the calls. Its also obviously not a “random hodge podge of players” and there’s obviously a ‘vision of the team’. Its up to everyone to get on the same page and use who’s effective at what.
Coughlin, Reese and I’m sure Gilbride and anyone else that was here on the staff when Beckum was drafted all knew what they were getting and how he should be used. Why so far he hasn’t done that is a mystery, but I doubt they just drafted him to be a random hodge podge of players, that’s ridiculous.
Its not Reese’s fault, tho I know you’d LOVE for that to be the case. Its everyone’s fault, including Beckum, for not doing what he’s asked of and for the staff not using him how he should be used and for Eli for not throwing him the ball when he’s open.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
don't know what the deal is between Eli and Beckum
historically, Eli has been pretty good at spreading the ball around to the open guys. I don’t know if something has scared Eli away from throwing to him, or if KG just decided that he doesn’t want him around and told Eli to ignore him (sounds a little conspiracy theoryesque i know) but it definitely seems that Eli is choosing not to throw to him.
by BleedBigBlue on Aug 24, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
It's up to Beckum to earn the QB's trust
Looks like Eli does not trust him. Manningham started texting and going to work out with Eli after his first season was a wash. I dont know if Beckum has or has not done that, but I have yet to hear of Beckum going to work out with Eli in the offseason.
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
So Coughlin and Reese are collecive morons
the point?
BPA IS a strategic approach to building a team
but it relies on the idea that talented players can be flexible enough to fit in where you want them to play. It seems to work out pretty well most of the time.
Unfortunately, there are occasions where the player ends up not having that flexibility, or in the cases of Beckum and Sintim are prevented by injuries from being able to learn their new roles quickly enough to provide results at the rate we’d like.
by BleedBigBlue on Aug 24, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
no doubt injury has played a factor
I bet if other teams that draft BPA, like the Patriots did with Gronkowski and Hernandez had as bad of luck as the Giants have with Beckum’s injuries that those two would be as good as they were last year.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Aug 24, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I would not use the Patriots as a BPA team example
They are very much about system and drafting and acquiring talent that fits the system. They run a lot of two TE sets, shocking they looked to stock up some TE talent…
well I would, and I did.
Belicheck has been the coach there for years, as has Coughlin here. Both are in on the draft, and both know who fits the system and who doesn’t and what they want and what they need.
Obviously Beckum filled something with that. Its not “hey just drat him to draft him, we’ll figure it out later”. Its very much the same thing as Belicheck and his people.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I just bought this awesome Corvette
I’m having a hell of a time towing my boat with it though, and I can’t quite figure out how to load this half ton of stone I need to haul into the back. You know, I thought about getting a truck, but this corvette was the best car available so I decided that would be the most strategic vehicle purchase.
It is actually
insert your snarky last word here since you need to…
Unless you are buying a car every year
Than wha’t your point.
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you drafting a TE every year
What’s your point?
No but...
If your drafting every year and going BPA than your obviously going to be drafting diffrent types of players in diffrent years. Yes there will be some positions you over draft on but the philosphy is from George Young and has worked pretty good.
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
This has nothing to do with what is being discussed
We aren’t talking about the wrong number of players at a certain position (that is a different issue to be discussed) we are talking the wrong type of player at a position for what you are expecting out of it. BleedBigBlue is claiming just get talent and expect it to be flexible enough to do whatever you want. I’m saying that is silly. Different talent will do different things better. A corvette might be a great car but expecting it to be flexible enough to be a truck is stupid. Beckum might be a great H back, but expecting him to be flexible enough to be an inline Y is stupid.
Is he not talking about the underlying strategy to BPA?
"BPA IS a strategic approach to building a team "
I get your analogy, but that’s not what I took from BleedBigBlue’s statement that your drafting talented players who are flexable enough to fit in where you need them to. He also said it does not work all the time.
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Just operating within the context of the thread
People going back and forth between it is Beckum’s fault or it is KG’s fault. My point is it is Reese’s fault, and if you want to lump in Coughlin with Reese that is fine by me. But someone put these two together and the fact that they are incompatible lies at the feet of that someone.
JR definitly had a brain fart on that pick
Never made much sense to me either. We should have got a real TE not a H-Back
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Some of the cars don't work when you buy them
Looks like car dealers are more reliable than draft agents.
THere’s also a law requiring you get working car when you buy it
Team Juggernaut: Jacobs, Hynoski. No one is safe
we need steve smith. underrated third down receiver. losing son-in-law (o’hara) is going to suck. i think we should have let kiwanuka go and resigned osi. however, since osi doesn’t want to be there, we should trade him for asanti
I like your analogy but...
I think it’s a little exaggerated. Seems to me it’d be more like:
I have a nice truck but my lease is up soon. I went to get one but the only ones available at the time I was shopping were too expensive. Instead I bought a mid-size SUV and decided I could put a hitch on it to get the job done plus use it for hauling the kids around. Problem is on the way home, the transmission seized up and I had to replace it. I just got it fixed, and now the kids want to go to the lake but I don’t have time to get the hitch installed now.
It’s not like they were trying to convert him to DT.
by BleedBigBlue on Aug 25, 2011 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Killdrive is the problem
I’m less worried about who we have on our roster at this position but more about the ineffectiveness of Killdrive and his inability to tailor his system to use the personnel he has. Putting any TE 1-on-1 vs. Julius Peppers is not a good idea and not using a sure-handed TE like Beckum really ticks me off.
Either utilize the personnel you decided to keep or go find players that fit your system.
You sir, are an imposter.
I demand you change your username at once. (Kidding, but seriously, you are not winning the who’s the bigger Manningham fan battle, so don’t try)
"They're going to expect me to go out there and play better to win games, and I expect that from myself, ... There's no reason for me not to go out there and play at a high level."- Eli Manning
SB 42 was forever ago, that being said, we need to try and pick up a good GM in the free agency!!!!
by ManningHam and Cheese on Aug 24, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a manningham fan
although I like him. Refreshing to see a 2nd/3rd rounder WR that we drafted work out(that’s right- im talking about Moss and Tim Carter).
I went to the Redskins game last year and the fan in front of me kept on yelling “manning’s ham” so thought it was funny.
by mannings'ham on Aug 24, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh. Gotcha.
I’ve got to protect my spot here as the leader of the Manningham fan club, that’s all.
"They're going to expect me to go out there and play better to win games, and I expect that from myself, ... There's no reason for me not to go out there and play at a high level."- Eli Manning
SB 42 was forever ago, that being said, we need to try and pick up a good GM in the free agency!!!!
by ManningHam and Cheese on Aug 24, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
hes just a fan of ham
I guess when peyton and eli aren’t Superbowl MVP’s, or TV Cops, or Oreo eaters….
they own a ham farm
Team Juggernaut: Jacobs, Hynoski. No one is safe
we need steve smith. underrated third down receiver. losing son-in-law (o’hara) is going to suck. i think we should have let kiwanuka go and resigned osi. however, since osi doesn’t want to be there, we should trade him for asanti
I don't think that's the Giants' philosophy
I think our system relies on the players and position coaches to adapt the player’s talents and skills to fit the overall team approach. When Reese & TC draft guys like Sintim and Beckum it’s because he thinks they have the talent and flexibility to adapt to the Giants’ scheme.
If the idea was to change the playbook to fit the players, then wouldn’t that make it easier for opposing DCs to know what we were doing just by looking at our players skill sets. Doing things this way gives an added layer of obfuscation to our gameplan, but it starts to break down when players are slow to adapt due to missing time with injuries, ect.
by BleedBigBlue on Aug 24, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
so then how do some of our draft picks
make ANY sense. If we are drafting guys to fit our system and adapt to the Giant’s scheme then why do you go out and draft a 3-4 LB to play 4-3 OLB (Sintim)? If our system requires a blocking TE, then why do you go out and draft Beckum?
The point is depth and different types of players at a given position give a coordinator and the coaching staff flexibility and should result in creative ways to utilize their strengths. For example:
Eli is great at reading defenses and making adjustments at the line – therefore we should give him more time at the line rather than breaking out of our huddle with 5 secs left on the play clock
Sintim was a great passer so we should use him during pass situations
Kiwi was a great DE in college and a great pass rusher so instead of trying to convert him to an OLB, we should use him where he has been successful
We have WRs and RBs that work great in space so we should use more screens and involve our RBs more in our passing game to counter blitzes
by mannings'ham on Aug 24, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a good way to do things
I just don’t think it’s the way the Giants are currently operating. I think we would all like to see KG be a little more creative with the offense, but the fact is that he’s got the system in place the way he likes it and for the most part that system has worked very well for the Giants in recent years.
JR (& TC insofar as he’s involved in the Draft) don’t seem to like the idea of only drafting guys that fit the system. They want to take the most talented player available regardless of whether or not they fit the Giants’ system. The reason some draft picks don’t seem to make sense is because they were drafted under the belief that with the proper coaching and adapting, they could be made to fit into the system. But when guys like Beckum and Sintim spend the majority of their first season injured, it significantly decreases the speed at which they adapt.
I agree with you wholeheartedly about the Offensive huddle. I think it’s ridiculous how long they spend in the huddle almost every down.
With Kiwi, it think this scenario comes along with having as many quality DE as we do. With him at DE we’d have 4 starting caliber DEs when Osi comes back. In order to give each of them as much playing time as possible you have to find ways to try to get as many on the field at the same time as possible. I also think his injury from last season is a factor. It is well documented that the wear and tear on a lineman’s spine is worse than that of a linebacker do to the way it compresses when they explode upward at the PoA.
I’d love to see more RB screens in our offensive game plan.
by BleedBigBlue on Aug 25, 2011 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Coats has looked solid
It doesn’t seem like Eli trusts Beckum just yet.
Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 5...
I'm down wit JPP
Yea you know me
just a quick question for the "homers" out there....
I find it hysterical that when Boss left he was “slow and couldn’t get separation”
but now that Becks is the TE “he doesn’t have to get separation…b/c he’s just flat out bigger than the Corners he matches up with”.
anyone care to explain this line of thinking? b/c it comes across as awfully idiotic and homerific.
TeamJPP
It' simple
Boss left so therefore he sucks! Beckum is hear therfore he can play. Homerism 101
by Late for Dinner on Aug 24, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Boss was slow when he was here
that was never a question, and most definitely didn’t change. I’m not sure who’s saying Beckum doesn’t have to get separation.
Seems like anther case of making up something, then complaining about “everyone” saying it.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
don't know who said "everyone"
but in this thread alone i’ve seen at least 2 comments that say “becks can just use his size to beat a smaller corner” or something to that affect (effect?)
where we these comments before though? when Boss left?
they were convinently left outta the convo….
TeamJPP
I've been saying Boss is slow since he first started to play for the Giants
Not sure when they ever left.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
i know...and so have others...and so have I
kinda what happens when ur a mountain of a man
but the truth is, since day one he wasn’t getting “great separation” but still contributing on Offense….
but when he left no one said, “yeah, it hurts to lose Boss b/c … etc.” it was “yeah, we’ll be fine, Boss had trouble seperating anyways”.
TeamJPP
Who needs seperation
Very few big TE’s get seperation, doesnt mean a damn thing when u 6’7 275
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
Cmon you're better than that
Boss was never lined up against corners, and if he was, he should have been thrown to more often.
If Beckum get’s matched up a corner he should be able to win that battle. Whether he does or not is a different story
Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden
If all it took was to be taller than the CB to be a good reciever
We’d just stick a bunch of basketball players out there. If the CB can stick to you like glue or jump your route, your height is useless. You have to be able to get open. Beckum can’t get open vs a corner, and he won’t draw a LB in coverage because he isn’t blocking inline.
I know I am....
but sometimes I gotta dumb it down for some.
and ur right….Boss wasn’t on corners (b/c he was/is a traditional TE)….but that wasn’t the point of the rant
TeamJPP
Whatever TE blocks best is on the roster...
Let’s face it, in the Giant’s current system and with the current coaching staff, having an elite TE is like getting a Porsche and putting it on blocks – it SOUNDS nice, but it really will never go anywhere. The Giants want a TE to block first, and pass catching is the afterthought. Whichever of the TEs in camp blocks best will be on the roster. They may well bring in someone else higher on the flow chart, but the best blocker will remain as a backup. And they won’t keep Beckum unless they have a blocking TE to go with him. So somebody better start knocking defenders out of the way cause nobody looks to have wrapped up a spot on the roster yet.
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