The Jerry Reese Game! Our Salary Cap and What We Can Do With It.
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 22, 2011 7:33 PM EDT
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Hola!
As we approach the excitement of a new CBA, lets talk about what we can do once free agency starts. I know there will be a ton of FA posts, but its always good to get some discussion and ideas out there.
I'm a n00b when it comes to the CBA stuff, so if I got ANYTHING wrong, please let me know. I don't know if I'm doing this right or not, so let me know and I'll update as we go along.
Salary cap
In 2009, the salary cap was set at $128,000,000. In 2010, we had an uncapped offseason. As far as I know, the new CBA will have an established salary cap. After each year, the salary cap number has increased by a minimum of $7,000,000.
As of right now, the Giants have $126,600,000 in committed salary cap considerations in 2011. That's in the top 5 highest payrolls in the NFL, according to ESPN.
According to our friends at BloggingtheBoys (they've got plenty of great information explaining salary cap stuff), the salary cap is estimated to around $140,000,000 to $150,000,000. However, the salary cap is split into the team salary portion (about $90,000,000 - the one we care about; calculated from the figures presented by JimmyK's website, BloggingthebEAST) and the benefit section (~20-30 million; variable).
We won't know for sure what the real numbers are, but negotiations are currently underway to set the the team salary portion at close to $128,000,000. According to my calculations, like I said, we have about $89,750,000 in team salary. That would seem like we have a lot to splurge on!
However, it doesn't include prorated signing bonuses, which also count against the cap. I encourage you to visit this link at BloggingtheBoys for an explanation on how these signing bonuses affect the salary cap. A Cliff Notes version is just taking the signing bonus and dividing it by the # of years and adding that on top of the cap for the year.
I don't have the time to look up the signing bonuses for each player, but we have to assume that players like Eli have somewhere in the neighborhood of about $2,000,000 in prorated signing bonus cap hits per year, and we have players that don't have much of anything in terms of signing bonus cap hits. We can then make a ballpark estimate of about $21,250,000 in prorated signing bonuses added on.
Jerry Reese will have to be very creative with the way he twists the dollar and manages the roster in order to make room to sign not only our own draft picks, but also our free agents (let alone other FA targets).
Okay, so lets look at money we need to commit to our rookies. Based on last year's salary (we'll be spending a little bit less because of our draft position compared to last year), we can estimate the salaries for this year:
1) Prince Amukamara - $500,000
2) Marvin Austin - $435,000
3) Jerrel Jernigan - $405,000
4) James Brewer - $350,000
5) Greg Jones - $305,000
6) Tyler Sash - $305,000
6) Jacquain Williams - $305,000
7) Da'Rel Scott - $285,000
Projected Cap Hit: $2,485,000 without signing bonuses
Last year, Jason Pierre-Paul received a deal of 5 years, $20,000,000 with $10,000,000 coming as a signing bonus.
I predict Prince to get a deal around the neighborhood of 5 years, $18,000,000 with about $8,000,000 coming as a signing bonus. Therefore, we would have a prorated signing bonus cap hit of an additional $1,600,000. I will estimate that an extra $2,250,000 in prorated signing bonuses will be doled out to the rest of our draft picks.
Therefore, if we add EVERYTHING together:
$89,750,000 in committed salaries +
$21,250,000 in prorated bonuses (est.) +
$2,485,000 in rookie committed salaries (est) +
$ 3,850,000 in rookie prorated bonuses (est) = $117,335,000 est. in total salary commitments including rookies.
Whew. That leaves us with $10,665,000 to play around with in free agency. That seems significantly less than what I'd like, but remember, this is all estimation.
Our Free Agents
Now we come to the fun stuff. Remember, we can't just cut someone and have their base salary just lopped off the salary cap. The prorated signing bonus comes to bite us in the ass. We take their prorated bonus per year x by the years left, and we take that cap hit if we cut them. That is something to keep in mind.
Our free agents and approximate costs of re-signing them (estimated based on reports and comparable salaries):
Ahmad Bradshaw - $4,600,000 with $1,750,000 prorated signing bonus = $6,350,000 salary cap hit
Steve Smith - $1,800,000 with $950,000 prorated signing bonus = $2,750,000 salary cap hit
Kevin Boss - $1,000,000 with $500,000 prorated signing bonus = $1,500,000 salary cap hit
Jim Sorgi - $900,000 with $200,000 prorated signing bonus = $1,100,000 salary cap hit
Michael Clayton - $405,000 with no signing bonus = $405,000 salary cap hit
Kevin Boothe - $450,000 with no $100,000 prorated signing bonus = $550,000 salary cap hit
Barry Cofield - $5,250,000 with $2,000,000 prorated signing bonus = $7,250,000 salary cap hit
Mathias Kiwanuka - $2,000,000 with $950,000 prorated signing bonus = $2,950,000 salary cap hit
Dave Tollefson - $405,000 with $100,000 prorated signing bonus = $505,000 salary cap hit
Keith Bulluck - $450,000 with $100,000 prorated signing bonus = $550,000 salary cap hit
Chase Blackburn - $405,000 with $100,000 prorated signing bonus = $505,000 salary cap hit
Gerris Wilkerson - $375,000 with no signing bonus = $375,000 salary cap hit
Deon Grant - $900,000 with $200,000 prorated signing bonus = $1,100,000 salary cap hit
Michael Johnson - $405,000 with no signing bonus = $405,000 salary cap hit
As you can see, it would be impossible to try and sign most of these people. Cofield is asking for at least Chris Canty money. A cap hit of over $7,000,000 would be a tough pill to swallow, especially at a "loaded" position. I think a much wiser move would be to retain Kiwanuka, and take a $3,000,000 hit instead.
We also see the concern in trying to retain two RBs at $4,500,000+ each. Add in the cap hit with Da'Rel Scott and D.J. Ware, and we have over $10,000,000 invested in that one position for the year. That's ridiculous. Hopefully Brandon Jacobs would be willing to restructure his contract.
In any case, I propose we retain the following: Ahmad Bradshaw, Steve Smith, Kevin Boss, Kevin Boothe, and Kiwanuka. Add together the cap hits of these guys and it comes out to be $14,100,000. Subtract the $10,665,000 from our free money and we are $3,435,000 in the red. And that's with losing Sorgi, Clayton, Grant, Johnson, Cofield, Blackburn, Bulluck, Tollefson.
Use this link at BloggingtheBeast to look at current salaries look at who we can cut to make room. If we are to keep Brandon Jacobs at his current salary, I'd look at the current players to cut:
Madison Hedgecock - $1,000,000
Devin Thomas - $550,000
Jake Ballard - $405,000
Shawn Andrews - $3,000,000
Shaun O'Hara - $3,500,000
Alex Hall - $555,000
Michael Coe - $555,000
Aaron Ross - $1,249,000
Chad Jones - $405,000* (Not sure since he's been on the injury list if he counts, but I counted him in my earlier calculations so I will take him out here).
Money recouped: $11,219,000 (Again, prorated signing bonuses probably will cut into this, but for the sake of not having to look up and prorate signing bonuses, I'll just assume not)
A few words: I did not want to cut some players, like Shawn Andrews or Aaron Ross, but they are simply not worth their contracts. With the addition of Prince, Aaron Ross instantly becomes our dime cornerback. He's supremely talented, but $1+ million is ridiculous for an injury prone dime cornerback. I'll keep Bruce Johnson, who has a manageable contract and pretty good upside as our dime corner. Shawn Andrews has a $3+ million contract that scales sizably (though not guaranteed, I believe it still counts towards the cap) which is also ridiculous for an injury prone backup guard.
Money Available Now: $11,219,000 - $3,435,000 (our "debt" from the previous column re-signing our priority free agents) = $7,784,000
Other Free Agents
Now you can see why Nnamdi Asomugha would be quite ridiculous to try and obtain. He wants $14,000,000/year. The cap hit from that also would include a massive prorated signing bonus which would bring the total cap hit he brings to basically $16,500,000. In order to sign him, we would need to free up another $10,000,000. The most obvious would be to cut Corey Webster, who has an $8,000,000 salary this year. Probably him and cut Jacobs would be just enough to sign him.
You tell me, would cutting Brandon Jacobs, Corey Webster plus crippling any cap space for other pressing needs is worth signing Nnamdi? I definitely don't think so. There are a few free agents out there, that I WOULD pursue, however.
Undrafted free agents
Henry Hynoski, FB - $285,000 salary cap hit.
No brainer here from my point of view. We need a fullback and he was one of the best available.
Kendric Burney, CB - $285,000 salary cap hit
After getting rid of Michael Coe and Aaron Ross, we need depth and Burney is the BPA.
Available Money left now: $7,784,000 - $285,000 - $285,000 = $7,214,000
Pro Free Agents
Lyle Sendlein, C Arizona Cardinals.
Probably one of the most underrated centers in the league because of where he plays, I've been beating the drum to sign this guy for quite some time. He's 6'3 308lbs, and is only 27. He was the 3rd best pass protecting center in the NFL according to ProFootballFocus and was the only lineman to receive a positive rating by PFF on the Cardinals. Imagine how he'd do on our squad, where he can take advantage of being around superior guards to help him out. Plus, he fulfills arguably our largest need. Definitely would sign this guy.
Probable contract: $2,200,000/year plus $750,000 prorated signing bonus, so available money now: $4,264,000
Barrett Ruud, ILB Tampa Bay Buccaneers or Stephen Tulloch, ILB Tennessee Titans
We all were not satisfied with our linebacking corps last year, and it was a frequent point of discussion at BBV. Although I like Jonathon Goff, I feel like he doesn't have the range to be good enough MLB in our scheme, and that moving him over to SAM would play to his strengths the best. If we can sign one of these two guys, I'd be a very happy camper. Hopefully, $3,000,000/year is good enough.
Probable contract: $3,300,000 plus $900,000 prorated signing bonus
Available Money left: $64,000. Jerry Reese treats the team to dinner.
After all of this, the team undergoes plenty of change. Lots of depth gone, but its time for our young ones to step up.
We lose:
Jim Sorgi, Michael Clayton, Deon Grant, Michael Johnson, Barry Cofield, Chase Blackburn, Keith Bulluck, Dave Tollefson, Madison Hedgecock, Devin Thomas, Jake Ballard, Rich Seubert, Aaron Ross, Michael Coe, Alex Hall and Shawn Andrews.
We gain:
Henry Hynoski, Kendric Burney, Lyle Sendlein, Stephen Tulloch (or Barrett Ruud)
Your turn! What do you think of the way I played the Jerry Reese game? What would you differently? Any other FA ideas?
FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.
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Comments
I realize that there are many other considerations involved
and that these calculations become extremely complex, so my attempt to do this may seem a little out there…but hey, that’s why NFL teams have entire front offices to take care of this stuff and not just one very bored blogger!
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 22, 2011 7:40 PM EDT reply actions
Damn
Awesome post
Respect thy brother and thy noodly appendage.
"The man who does not comply with the Pastfarian belief is a man not worthy of the afterlife" Mozzarella 17:3
J. Cole = #1
thanks. took a little bit of time to find and crunch the numbers and come up with plausible estimates lol
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 22, 2011 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Outstanding post
I’ve been visiting Rotoworld a few times the last few weeks to try and figure out what our actual projected team salary will be for next year (without signing any FAs, including our own), and it hasn’t been easy. With all of the different bonuses that may or may not count, plus Rotoworld apparently missing some of these bonuses, I haven’t been able to figure out a good estimate of what our actual cap number would be. Kudos to you for crunching some of these numbers.
And I thought I was the only one who had mentioned Sendlein (can’t remember if it was here or on ESPN). He would seem like the perfect, under-the-radar move that this team needs to make. Although, if we were to sign him, we’d likely need to cut O’Hara, because if we’re signing Sendlein to be our starting center, it wouldn’t make sense to keep O’Hara, since that’s the only role he has on the roster right now anyway. That would be a tough cut, especially since he only has one year left on his deal, and for what he’s meant to the organization and team since he’s been here, but if we sign Sendlein, I don’t know how you can keep him around.
I would also love to sign Vonta Leach to solidify our FB position once and for all. Cut Hedgecock, as you said, and move Pascoe back to TE. I don’t know if I’m all that thrilled with going the UDFA route there. Maybe I’m overreacting to what happened to Romo, but that’s one position you don’t wanna mess around with, and especially this offseason, trusting an undrafted rookie to protect your QB from a blitz could be very risky. Leach is arguably the best in the game, so he’d require some more coin, but it’s not like FBs are commanding north of a couple million anyway. The Giants tried to sign him in 2007 before the Texans matched their offer sheet. Reese has shown with past free agent signings that he likes to go after guys that he once tried to get, and Leach has done nothing to sway Reese’s opinion of him.
I don’t know about the MLB thing though. I haven’t heard great reviews from Bucs fans on Ruud or Titans fans on Tulloch. Same goes for Poz in Buffalo. Maybe the Giants go that route, and I’ll support that if they do, but I won’t lose any sleep over it, unless someone can give me concrete proof why these guys are better than their own fanbases are making them out to be.
How about someone like James Anderson or Manny Lawson for the SAM LB spot? Both should come cheap and could start immediately.
The NFL and NFLPA? They can kiss my ass, OK? They can line up and kiss my ass.
thanks for the feedback
you’re absolutely right regarding Sendlein and O’Hara. I think I’ll take Seubert back and release O’Hara.
As for Vontae Leach, I’d love to sign him too, but I think he’s going to ask for WAY more money than need be. I think we should let Pascoe groom Hynoski to be the fulltime FB. Since in my scenario, we bring back Kevin Boss, we should be fine with Pascoe at FB till Hynoski is ready.
As far as LBzez go, I’m a huge fan of Tully, but I can see what you’re saying. I don’t think I want Lawson because I don’t want to spend time converting him into a 4-3 ‘backer. I’ll gladly take James Anderson though.
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 22, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
changed the numbers in terms of cutting O'Hara and keeping Seubert
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 22, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I don't really know
what a top FB would ask for in free agency. The position doesn’t have a lot of “value”, so my first thought is that it would be like $3-4 million per year. I could be wrong though.
The NFL and NFLPA? They can kiss my ass, OK? They can line up and kiss my ass.
Greg Jones in 2008 signed a 5 year, $17,000,000 contract with the Jags
to make him one of the richest FBs in the country. He’s due $3,100,000 this year but may need to take a pay cut.
Leach is getting up there in years, and has already stated he wants to be the highest paid FB in the league probably as his last big contract. To sign him, probably for $3.5 mill per…and with the signing bonus he’s going to get, add $1 mill prorated signing bonus to make it a $4.5 mill cap hit.
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 23, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm...no thanks!
"Oh sir, the Giants of New York took on the Packers of Green Bay. And in the end, the Giants triumphed by kicking an oblong ball made of pigskin through a big "H". It was a most ripping victory."
Sigh...
these posts always seem so much longer after you publish them….
The NFL and NFLPA? They can kiss my ass, OK? They can line up and kiss my ass.
Nice Post
I’ve always wanted someone to break down the cap rules, because I was beginning to think that we’re the Yankees, due to the fact that every off season it seems like we’re in on every top free agent. But you forgot to mention the rookie cap.
looking at everything, I’m thinking that we should cut Aaron Ross and sign Kendric Burney. We only need 4 CBs and we have that with CWebb, TT, Prince and Bruce Johnson. Kendric Burney could be a developmental type thing and he’s already good in zone, I also think he’ll contribute in Special Teams.
Osi is going to be traded so I think that’ll open a lot cap room, and we could use some of that to resign Mathias Kiwanuka.
I don’t think we need to pick up a LB in free agents. I think we’re well off with this group of guys. So the only big time signing I see is Lyle Sendlein.
I’ve read that Pascoe has bulked up, so I think he’ll be more effective and that Coughlin has plans to use him as FB. I also see Jake Ballard remaining on the squad.
Rookie cap
I have no idea what the rookie cap might be, or even if it would be in place next year so I didn’t include it. If you find anything on what the rules might entail, I’d gladly update this and change up the numbers
I think we will bring in a FA at LB simply because Blackburn, Wilkerson, and Bulluck are all free agents, and Sintim and Tracy are coming off season ending injuries.
Regarding Aaron Ross, if there was anyway to restructure his contract, under my scenario if he took a $250,000 pay cut, we’d definitely be able to keep him.
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 22, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you on bringing in a LB
but I don’t believe it would be a top FA LB. Mainly someone for depth and Special Teams.
Regarding Aaron Ross, I forgot even about offering him a paycut, that’s something we might do. At least I think we should do, unless we don’t have to.
What about Rocky Benard? How would the cap space look if we were to release him?
Bernard
He has a $5 million signing bonus over 4 years, and this year he’s slated to make ~$3mill.
So prorating his remaining 2 years, depending on when we cut him, we can take the full brunt of the cap hit from his prorated signing bonus (1.25 mill x 2 years = 2.5 mill) this year…in that case we only clear $500,000 this year, but the full length of his contract for the remaining years….
….or if we split it, we stand to clear close to $2 million this year.
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 22, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
There is only one problem
with all of this. No one knows as of yet what the cap rules are going to be … or the rookie wage scale. So, nobody knows what the money is right now.
It’s a brand new CBA, so you can pretty much throw out the past numbers.
I appreciate BBI’s effort here, but there is no way to figure out the money right now.
Absolutely agree, Ed
And I fully understand that this was an exercise in futility. But I simply wanted to take myself through the process and I just documented my efforts. I used most of the rumors found ’round the interwebs to formulate my numbers.
As far as contract numbers go, they should be pretty similar, regardless to the new CBA. Guys’ll still be asking for the same amount of money (and reaching for more). What changes is the cap number….I provided a “middling” case scenario based on the rumors out there. Could be worse….could be better for us.
As far as rookie wage scale…well. ya got me there. No idea what’s going to happen with that….fortunately, even before the rookie wage scale, if you aren’t picking in the top 10, the salary cap hit isn’t devastating enough to make a large enough dent in your cap space.
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 22, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Its funny that we're even discussing this because...voila!
Estimates say that when a deal is struck, the 2011 salary cap could be anywhere from $110 to $130 million, depending on who you’re reading or listening to. For our purposes, we’ll go with an even $124 million, which was the approximate cash commitment per team in 2010, when there wasn’t a salary cap. Based on that number, it’s very easy to see which teams would be violently opposed to a 90 percent-plus cash guarantee each year, because their cash commitments in recent years have been so far below the average. That new floor would require commitments of at least $110 million with a reasonable cap..
That’s a quote from the newest (well newest as of 11:00 PM EDT) Shutdown Corner article.
He suggests anywhere from $110 to 130 mill. Obviously, $130 would be awesome. In my post I went with a middling $120. So we’ll see…
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 22, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
The Salary Cap is based off of the shared revenues
If the 48% number is what it’s going to be, it’d be whatever the total revenues are, divided by 32, times .48 and there’s your salary cap.
Assuming they use the same rules as the last CBA
Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden
You forgot the...
Projected league wide benefits. You have to subtract that from the players 48% of total revenue. You then get the amount remaining for Player Salaries and divide that by 32.
Red stripe, blue paint, them other teams scared but Big Blue ain't.
Our Giants who art in the New Giants Stadium,
hallowed be thy name.
No Three and Outs.
Thy defense Stout.
On earth or if we must in a dome.
Give us on Sunday our weekly Dubya,
and forgive us our turnovers,
as we take advantage of those who turnover against us,
and lead us not into a losing season,
but deliver us a fourth Super Bowl title.
To Eli we pray.
Amen.
^ Yeah, I believe we should all have this as part of our sig, which is why I stole it. :)
Pretty sure they're proposing getting rid of that
but I haven’t kept up to date with the stuff recently
Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden
wow....
when I sober up i’m reading this again….
FIX IT
by andiamo708 on Jun 22, 2011 11:05 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Looking at the numbers
If you follow your own, you gave Prince $500k in the listing, then indicated JPP’s much larger contract as a smiliar pick and admitted Prince would get similar.
A lot depends on the RFA rules. If Bradshaw is protected, he’ll get a lower amount, we’ll risk getting the 2nd rounder. No way Cofield is getting $7 million after drafting Joseph and Austin. I think Smith gets tabbed as the most valuable player on that list, even with the Jernigan pick. He’s important to Eli. Changed my mind on Bradshaw. Team seems to like him. I’d guess closer to $4 million for Bradshaw and Smith.
Overall, I think the Giants are stuck waiting to see who will be healthy and which draft picks will stick. There are a lot of key decisions that will be easier next year. No big free agent moves this year.
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun."
prince gets a similar amount
because eventually in the final years of his contract, the numbers scale up. I think the Giants like to back load a lot of the draft pick contracts because as you said…they wanna see which ones stick
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 23, 2011 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions
We need to trim some of the fat on the roster
I think Bradshaw and Smith are the two most important pieces to retain. I’m sure the front office and ole JR feel the same way. I expect us to worry about our own guys first than the FA market.
Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 5...
Thanks...quite a bit of time haha
Only thing I can envision not being accurate are (of course) the estimates for what the Free Agents want their contracts to be, and the money recouped by cutting our players under contract because signing bonuses were not taken into account, so the money will be perhaps around $9mill instead of the $11 mill I have up there
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 23, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Helluva post, BBI
I agree with mostly everything on here. Do you think we’re really going to retain all of our draft picks, though? For some reason I think we usually cut one or two, although I believe that happens around preseason time.
"Oh sir, the Giants of New York took on the Packers of Green Bay. And in the end, the Giants triumphed by kicking an oblong ball made of pigskin through a big "H". It was a most ripping victory."
thanks jcal
I don’t think we’re going to retain all our draft picks, but they’re all relatively cheap and I wanted to present a scenario where we have all of them. If I have to predict who will be gone though, it’d probably be Jacquian Williams and Da’Rel Scott.
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 23, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
That sounds about right, although I like Scott
I guess it really depends on who we’re going to sign back between Jacobs and Bradshaw (or both).
And if we don’t get Sendelein, we could go for an UDFA as a backup while we plug-and-play with centers. O’Dowd and Kirkpatrick would be good backups, and who knows how good they could be down the road. I also think we bring in some other UDFA, which doesn’t necessarily mean we sign them to contracts – maybe bring in Chas Henry from UF to scare Dodge?
Oh yeah, and if we trade Osi, there’d be even more $$ to deal with…
"Oh sir, the Giants of New York took on the Packers of Green Bay. And in the end, the Giants triumphed by kicking an oblong ball made of pigskin through a big "H". It was a most ripping victory."
I like Scott as well
but there are a few things working against him:
If we still have Jacobs and Bradshaw, remember, we also have DJ Ware under contract. That’s 4 running backs.
ST, Scott is kind of small, so his maximum value comes in being a returner. However, he doesn’t have too much experience with that, whereas Jernigan does. We also have Domenik Hixon back in that role as well.
We most definitely could pick up a UDFA C, and I’ve been beating the drum for Kirkpatrick for that past several months. The more I think about it, though, the more concerned I get at placing a rookie in a starting role…especially given the injury prone-ness. I’d be real comfortable with taking Sendlein.
As far as Chas Henry, absolutely, bring him in. And if we get rid of Osi, it’ll clear up about $3,000,000 for us to play around with this year.
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 23, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
The Rookie wage scale will change all of this
Great post, however the dreams of Rudd or Tulloch or any MLB besides Goff are over. I urge people to stop looking for names and pay attention to the young unknown talent in our stable of LB’s……..between Goff, Sintim, Boley, Williams, Jones, Tracy, Blackburn, Dilliard etc, i dont know what you guys see but i am super excited to see who will emerge as a force because i can guarantee a few of them will.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Perhaps. Though I am not as sold on our rookie corps as many are.
Goff = Great against the run. Liability in coverage. Was a 2-down ’backer last year.
Sintim = Coming off ACL injury. You need at least another year before you can perform. See: Osi in 2009, and then in 2010.
Boley = Underrated I think. He should remain a fixture at the WLB.
Williams = Rookie. Even more difficult with shortened training camp and no rookie minicamp.
Jones = Rookie.
Tracy = No playing time as a rookie that came from non-D-1 school, plus coming off season ending surgery.
Blackburn = oft injured and a FA. Been here too long and hasn’t been able show that he can get on the field as a starter.
Dillard = Potential, sure, but he struggled in ST.
I’d much rather have an established young talent at LB. I don’t think we will end up going this route, but if I were managing the money, that’s the way I’d go.
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 23, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree in a sense
1) Goff is not a liability in coverage at all, he is actually pretty good, him only playing two downs was more of a 3 safety thing, it had nothing to do with Goff’s pass coverage and Fewell has stated that.
2) (Sintim) totally agree, but his tear wasnt as bad as Osi and he is a rather quick healer but i your point here is absolutely true.
3) (Boley )I totally agree and he will.
4) (Williams) Agree
5) (Jones) Agree
6) (Tracy)….The school he came from should but it doenst apply to him in this particular situation. He was great in preseason and he grasped the play book even faster than Sintim did, watch out for this kid.
7) (Blackburn) wasnt even considering him as a starter but in a 3- 4 game stretch he could fill in at any of the positions and not be a liability and he has shown that.
8) (Dilliard) most rookies who started in college probably have a hard time playing special teams because they just dont do it in college.
You have to give talent time to establish themselves, we have Goff and Boley as well as Kiwi who plays LB time to time, the others have enough time to prove themselves, i just want them to have an opportunity before we go bringing in guys who they could be better than in a year or two. The LB spot is not a big of a deal as some make it out to be IMHO.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
I guess just agree to disagree on some of them I guess.
Profootballfocus rated Goff as one of the best (along with Terrell Suggs) at run defense, but one of the worst in pass coverage. He’s a top 20 tackler, great at run defense, and is smart….all qualities that lend itself best to the SAM position, especially in a T2.
Boley was rated as a top 10 pass rushing 4-3 OLB and top 10 tackler. He’s pretty much set.
I was never high on Sintim, always thought he was better off as a 3-4 OLB. He just doesn’t have the range and seems kinda tenative to me. That’s only going to get worse coming off an injury.
Tracy was a DE in college, but I didn’t see too much of him in preseason so I’ll take your word for it.
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 24, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
me too
Maybe next year after we get a 2nd rounder for Osi, we could draft a potential star at LB. But I feel that either Sintim, Tracy or Williams are to emerge as a solid player. Teams would kill to have a run stopper/sure tackler like Goff. All LBs are liabilities in coverage, and they’re definitely not going to be great at coverage in their first year, because you get better in coverage with experience. What we need to do is help him and tried to hide him, until he gets the hang of things. Beware of a break out season for Goff.
When Goff attacks… he’ll break your back. lol just came up with that one.
Yes
I agree and have been saying Goff will be a star this year, again though, he was not bad in coverage people, even when he did falter a bit it was based on mental lapses, he was simply thinking to much but his speed and athleticism are not an issue, a lil stiff in the hips down field, but name me one LB that isnt??
GOFF IS THE MAN!
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
I know nothing of this salary cap stuff so please don't scrutinize me for this lol
but in Madden when you release some players (lol I feel like a noob) their salary still effects your cap. So does this happen in real life, or is this just in Madden.
This site will explain alot of your questions
http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp
This is per the last CBA. Not much of a difference in the way the rules will work….just the numbers will.
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 23, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
The cut players affect the cap usually
They are trying not to make too many reasons to cut a guy. There are some times during a year where this is not the case, but the link did not open for me and I’m too lazy to look it up. There are also situations where the cut affects the cap next year.
Not only is their salary counted, but all of their remaining signing bonus money. For example, guy gets $5 million bonus up front on a 5-year deal. It gets counted against the cap $1 million per year. If the guy gets cut after the second season, the $3 million that has not yet been counted against the cap all gets counted that year.
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun."
I think the remaining money of a signing bonus stay in the prorated years
For example Shockey stayed on our cap for 2 or 3 years after he was dealt.
Yup
well sometimes. The remaining bonus money get’s paid the year you cut them and it counts against the cap that year
Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden
Signing bonus is paid up front
But it’s possible that incentives can be met year one that will trigger payment later. I guess in that situation the payments could be accelerated and show up in that years cap
Bleh you're right
but cap wise it’s split evenly until the contract’s up
Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden
What are Cliffs Notes?
never heard of them…
Great post, BTW. regardless of how accurate the #s end up being, it’s still a fun game.
If I were JR I would do my best to prioritize the Giants players who are soon to be FA’s, then try to create competition for the players who we have spent draft picks on. This strategy has done the Giants well in past seasons.
this is what it sounds like when the birds cry
and to list the priorities...
in terms of value (your estimated cost, vs. how much they are needed)
1) Steve Smith – $2,750,000 salary cap hit (possibly less, as health needs to be accounted for)
2) Kevin Boothe – $550,000 salary cap hit (fills a need, doesn’t he? How does coaching staff feel about him?)
3) Mathias Kiwanuka - $2,950,000 salary cap hit (possibly less, as health needs to be accounted for)
4) Kevin Boss – $1,500,000 salary cap hit (seems to be fading in skill, but fills a need)
5) Dave Tollefson – $505,000 salary cap hit (depending on how the coaching staff feels about him, he can offer a solution to the ‘Osi situation’, as well as the questionable health of Kiwi)
6) Deon Grant- $1,100,000 salary cap hit (not exactly pocket change, but a valuable player and lessens the need at LB)
7) Keith Bulluck – $550,000 salary cap hit (fills a need doesn’t he? Might return to form after injury)
8) Michael Johnson- $405,000 salary cap hit (someone needs to provide this depth, and if you think depth and familiarity w/ the scheme is not important- see C.C.)
9) Ahmad Bradshaw - $6,350,000 salary cap hit (that’s a lot of $$)
10) Barry Cofield – $7,250,000 salary cap hit (That’s a lot of $$)
11) Jim Sorgi – $1,100,000 salary cap hit (won’t see the field-knock on wood- but a backup QB is vaulable)
12) Chase Blackburn- $505,000 salary cap hit (has had time to prove himself)
13) Gerris Wilkerson – $375,000 salary cap hit
14) Michael Clayton – $405,000 salary cap hit
this is what it sounds like when the birds cry
Bradshaw
If they kept playing him after a zillion fumbles, I’m guessing they would have him ranked higher.
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun."
yeah and ummh
Tollefson that high just don’t make sense
I put Tollefson that high for two reason
1) he’s cheap
2) there is a chance that the Giants will only have two healthy DE’s next year- Tuck and JPP. Obviously, a team who’s motto is “you can never have enough pass rushers” can’t go into a season with only two healthy DEs.
(for the record, I don’t think this scenario is likely. I really believe Osi is not a problem, and he will be back. Kiwi, on the other hand, I’m not so sure. there’s no telling how this injury will effect him next year)
All in all, I’m surprised Tollefson is not talked about more. Of course, he is not a completely known quantity, even after all these years. He has, however, played well in his limited opportunities. With Osi’s name being in every other Giants related article over the last two weeks, I don’t think I’ve heard Tollefson’s name come up once. It’s not completely crazy to think that he could be the surprise contributor of the season.
Where would you place him, and why?
this is what it sounds like when the birds cry
yea, obviously he's an important contributor
Last year he made about $1 mill. He was considered a ‘Top Value Performer’. If he’s signed as a free agent, he’s going to get Maurice Jones Drew money. I am hoping the Giants do, in fact, have him ranked higher, and I hope he takes a home-team discount as I really think he’s the best running back on the team and should be retained.
this is what it sounds like when the birds cry
Ahmad Bradshaw
needs to go… he aint worth no 7-8 mil a year im sorry but he is just not…. there are guys that will make less than a mil a year than can be just as if not more effective than AB…. I love his heart and effort but NA!
by The Blood of Eli on Jun 24, 2011 3:35 PM EDT reply actions
Like who????????
Name 3-4 guys that will make less than a year and are just as if not more productive than him…….please consider running, pass blocking, pass catching when you do this.
Ill wait.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Well
I’m not into giving an injury-prone RB a big contract off of one big year.
By the way, Chris Johnson was paid $800K last year.
lets see how much Johnson commands this year….
Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I don't like that attitude. I can assure them it is much more serious than that.
by njsoldier1978 on Jun 24, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't the Giants do that back in 2009?
And Johnson is already rumored to be preparing for a lengthy holdout. He won’t play for that contract this year.
The NFL and NFLPA? They can kiss my ass, OK? They can line up and kiss my ass.
He shouldn't
He has carried that offense for years. Bradshaw is just one piece in an offense full of pieces.
Thats the Titans stupidity or intelligence depending on how youn look at it.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Injury Prone Running back
Those words can be used for most every RB in the league…. i guess only Stephen Jack, AP & CJ deserved to getr paid, i dont agree but i see your point however i would rather you use his fumbling as the reason, not his health because he was fine last year and if im not mistaken, he ran on two broken feet the year before and still did well.
in the words of the great Prime time Dieon Sanders…….#PAYDAMAN.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Bradshaw has had 4 surgeries on his feet and/or ankles in the last two off-seasons
He has a running style that is prone to injuries. He admitted it. So did his offensive coordinator. So did his head coach.
^ ^ ^ = injury-prone
Every good running back
Has a running style that is prone to injury…… The position in itself is prone to injury so why not go hard??….yea he admitted it, so will any top RB. His surgeries were before last year and he seemed just fine.
If your excuse for not paying a RB is that they run too hard, well then i dont know what to tell you.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
I was interested to find out who some of the most valuable RBs were
this is the best Running Back salary info I could come up with- it’s from last year.
There are some names that jump off the list, and many who had exceptional seasons making less than or about $1 mill.
Of course, whether or not they are as productive as Ahmad Bradshaw is subjective. To avoid sparking a debate, I’ll just link to the list.
A list of running backs and their salaries
this is what it sounds like when the birds cry
he's not on the list
But I just read that last year, Arian Foster made the league minimum, $310,000.
this is what it sounds like when the birds cry
he's # 112
Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I don't like that attitude. I can assure them it is much more serious than that.
by njsoldier1978 on Jun 25, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
good eye
it is two years ago…
Very weird- player salaries are very hard to find on the internet. One might think this is easy information to access.
My Google skills were really put to the test on this one.
this is what it sounds like when the birds cry
Who said
he was getting that much? There are probably only one or two RBs in the NFL that make that much a year.
The NFL and NFLPA? They can kiss my ass, OK? They can line up and kiss my ass.
Its based on Bradshaw asking for at least as much as Jacobs.
So lets say we give him a 4 year $18,600,000 deal with around $10,000,000 guaranteed. $8,000,000 of the guaranteed money is the signing bonus.
In that case, he gets $4.65 million per year, and if you prorate his signing bonus ($8 mill, 4 years) you get a prorated bonus of $2 million per year.
Therefore we have a cap hit $4.65 + $2 = $6.65 million per year if I understand things correctly. Therefore, while Bradshaw’s contract wouldn’t be 7 mill per….the hit he places on our salary cap would be.
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 24, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
He really needs to. He is the best runningback in this division, but to be honest all the runningbacks in the NFC East leave a little to be desired. Jones/Barber, Lady Gaga, Ryan Torrain and Bradshaw/jacobs. None of these running backs deserve franchise money. He is more lucky than anything. Lucky he survived the season being that small and starting(which he shouldnt be). Alot of lucky plays like the TD run against the Titans that was CLEARLY holding. Lucky he trampled some soft teams like Seattle. With the schedule that we have and the money he asking for i hope he is ready. When you think of NYG you think of a team that runs the ball. For some reason we keep gettin runningbacks that are rather small and/or fumble alot. Time for change. I want a strong comitte with NO over payed players or a everydown “Throwback” runningback like MJD, Chris Johnson, or Foster. Bradshaw shouldnt get what they get. Just my opinion though.
Im as REAL as it gets. Even when it comes to my own team!
Bradshaw isn't the best RB in the division
I’d take McCoy over Bradshaw.
by GhostDini on Jun 25, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's close. Real close. But you're right.
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 25, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Felix Jones has a bigger upside
He’s just been held back by the Dallas madness.
Cmon trueblue?! Felix...really?
I’ve seen some flashes,myself but cmon man…Felix is either an injury prone speed back or now that he has put on a few pounds he is straight up ordinary and Choice looks better with the ball in his hands..maybe the heat is gettin’ to ya…
by Shaunthegiant on Jun 25, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree completely
Jones is injury-prone, can’t run between the tackles, and hasn’t shown any toughness.
Jones has talent like the rest of the Cowboys have talent
that is, he doesn’t.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
AB could blow him away if he can only finish the season strong
must be the ankles..
by Shaunthegiant on Jun 25, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
who you talkin at 11 37 am Ghost
must be Mccoy
Aside from the ankles/slow finish to the season AB does what we need as a receiver
isn’t faster but is much shiftier and stronger than Felix and Mccoy combined..way tougher,good pass blocker too,no?
by Shaunthegiant on Jun 25, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Being tougher and stronger is overrated
if he’s just going to the fumble the ball when he fights for extra yards. That’s like saying someone has a really strong arm but they keep throwing it to the other team.
His pass-blocking is very good but it’s hard to pass-block for Vick when he’s moving all over the place.
If Bradshaw stops fumbling, I’ll give him more credit.
As far as Bradshaw vs McCoy goes
Bradshaw had 1235 rushing yards and 314 receiving yards = 1549 yds from scrimmage
McCoy had 1080 rushing yards and 592 receiving yards = 1672 yds from scrimmage.
McCoy had 123 more yards than Bradshaw did in total, and one more TD total. That’s not much better, and Bradshaw has proven more than versatile enough.
As far as pass blocking goes, Bradshaw has proven that he’s a good pass blocker, and is definitely the more dependable one at that, having the most pass blocking snaps in the league, and only missing a few. McCoy has not.
As far as the Vick argument goes, I could also argue that the mere threat Vick possesses makes it easier for McCoy as well. Teams have to gameplan for Vick as a dual threat.
Meanwhile, the Giants basically telegraph when they’re going to run.
Sure, Bradshaw has the fumbling issue, and that firmly puts McCoy above Bradshaw for best RB in the league, but if Bradshaw fixes those fumbling issues, its real close.
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 25, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
not league, sorry....meant division
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 25, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't get the Vick argument
Vick helps the WRs since you have to keep a spy to cover him, which removes a person who could be out in pass defense. He doesn’t help the RB at all. In fact, he hurts McCoy. Since more people stack the box to keep Vick from running, it also means that there are more people to stop the run when McCoy gets the ball on a running play.
You can’t list numbers without any context. Bradshaw had 323 touches. McCoy had 285 touches. In 38 fewer touches, McCoy had 123 more yards and one more TD.
McCoy also is on the best screen team in the NFL
which racks him up tons of yards in the passing game.
Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 5...
AB had 70 more rushes than Lady Gaga also.
Lady Gaga is who the saints thought Reggie Bush would be.
McCoy over Bradshaw
Lady Gaga over Beyonce……hmmm to each is own.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
NFC playoffs : Seattle Seahawks 41, New Orleans Saints 36
I wouldn’t exactly say they were soft.
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Sex is like math. Add the bed, Subtract the clothes, divide the legs ... And pray to god you don't multiply!!
They were soft.
They just showed up at the right time. Well Marshawn Lynch did. BEAST MODE!
Red stripe, blue paint, them other teams scared but Big Blue ain't.
Our Giants who art in the New Giants Stadium,
hallowed be thy name.
No Three and Outs.
Thy defense Stout.
On earth or if we must in a dome.
Give us on Sunday our weekly Dubya,
and forgive us our turnovers,
as we take advantage of those who turnover against us,
and lead us not into a losing season,
but deliver us a fourth Super Bowl title.
To Eli we pray.
Amen.
^ Yeah, I believe we should all have this as part of our sig, which is why I stole it. :)
Well then the Giants really must have been "soft " being as they played 2 more games then them.
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Sex is like math. Add the bed, Subtract the clothes, divide the legs ... And pray to god you don't multiply!!
disagree with anyone who says Seattle was soft.
Sure, based on their record they had no business being the in the playoffs, but it takes something to defeat an NFL team, let alone an NFL team in the playoffs. Any time you win in the playoffs, being called “soft” is absolutely ridiculous.
And Troy, I’d say the Giants were mentally softer than quite a few teams in the league.
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 26, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Any Idea as to whether the transition tags applied pre-lockout would carry over?
I can see JR seeing AB as a 2nd rounder in 2012 waitin’ to happen and the same goeas doubly for BC.
all i gotta say is DAMN
to everyone who wants JR to do this and that with him and sign him and cut them, i hope this could give a glimpse into the life of JR, lots of financial decisions, and the money cant be toyed with all that much, its harder than bringing a guy in and signing the dotted line
"I like prime rib, and I'd love to win a Super Bowl" -Andy Reid
thanks a lot for taking all of the fun out of the Jerry Reese game!
j/k-
JR has it tough. Most fans don’t take all those tough decisions into account. See my ‘value list above’, I really tried to be realistic.
The way is see it- Cofield is a goner. Bradshaw should stay, but he possibly won’t.
Some scenarios for the running back position:
1) Bradshaw takes a home-team discount. Jacobs restructures his contract. Both remain with the Giants.
2) Giants don’t sign Bradshaw
3) Giants sign Bradshaw and release Jacobs (they also would likely sign a veteran between the tackles RB at a lower cost- think Thomas Jones to KC)
Not sure the financial implications of each, but I think it’s a pretty realistic list of options. Of course, I would prefer option 1, but it’s up to Bradshaw and Jacobs. If Jacobs is unwilling to restructure his contract, he is probably gone, and Bradshaw is signed.
Oddly, Steve Smith and Mathias Kiwanuka dealing with injuries- that could help out the Giants in terms of signing them. With the 2007 draft class (the best in recent memory) headed toward UFA, there’s no way the Giants could keep these guys. A healthy Kiwanuka would be as good as gone. A healthy Steve Smith might be resigned, but at the expense of someone like Bradshaw, and Boss.
this is what it sounds like when the birds cry
jacobs and bradshaw
are gonna stay, theyre way too close on and off the field to let money separate them, so i think they could figure something out on their own so they both stay. and i wasnt trying to take any fun out of the game (lol) but i just really recognized how rough jerry has it with all this stuff, and hoped those FA happy fans take it into consideration, but if i could figure out the numbers and avoid disappointment at the same time, id definitely give my input, but i dont wanna think about losing half these guys
"I like prime rib, and I'd love to win a Super Bowl" -Andy Reid
BBI
you’ve been (for the most part) a solid contributer at BTB. For the most part, while still holding to your allegiance to your team you have been objective.
This is fantastic analysis that I’m going to hit my Giants friends with at work. Fun stuff.
This is the kind of analysis that gets you on the front page. Rec’d.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
'ppreciate it HudBaby
same can be said for alot of the work at BTB. Y’all have some great stuff over there.
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 28, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I like the call on Sendlein and hopefully we get Burney..I think Marvin and Nicks should sell him on PF's system
Thanks for taking the time to do the number work,even if it is inexact.
Whats up w/ Sendlein anyway?I wonder how he stacks against our other C options?
Only thing I can disagree with
is the choice of LB free agents. IMO; Manny Lawson may be the best candidate out there. He should be fairly cheap, because he’s proven that he’s a liability to a 34 defense (a SAM that can’t rush the passer).
However he’s strong in coverage, and solid against the run, which is EXACTLY what we need in a SAM. Also he’s got the size, strength, speed combo that Reese loves.
(they could also take a look at Jake Kirkpatrick UDFA C-TCU)
I wouldn't mind Lawson
just a little wary of “converting” 3-4s…..though I’ll agree that he’s miscast as one.
Keep Jose Reyes, Trade Fred Wilpon
by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 30, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
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