UNDERRATED.
by #56 4life on May 12, 2011 4:40 PM EDT
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PrintAround the league, there are many players who are undervalued and under appreciated. These guys aren't the big named players like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or Adrian Peterson. These are guys who show up to work, play their position very well, keep their mouths shut, and go unnoticed. There is never an ESPN special on them and usually their names don't show up in the record books, but they are key pieces on their team and are consistently performing. Now here at BBV, it is easily said that you guys know a whole lot about the NY Giants, and their players. You know their names, numbers, age, Date of Birth, favorite breakfast cereal and so on. Some guys that I will mention later won't seem like underrated guys, because to us, they aren't. But these are the guys that when looked at by the "experts" or even other fans that don't get the respect and recognition they deserve.
Corey Webster- The first guy I thought of when making this list surprisingly enough was Corey Webster. He is not mentioned as a top CB in the NFL, but he is undoubtedly the best CB on the Giants roster. He may not be what some consider a "shutdown corner" but he is very good. He doesn't rack up stats like the other top corners in the league, and why is this you ask? Maybe it's because nobody wants to throw towards him. I wouldn't. As far as the NFL stage in concerned, C-Web is undervalued and UNDERRATED.
Deon Grant - Moving to another member of the secondary, this guy is a veteran who came in just last year as part of Reese's solution to the safety problem we had back in 2009 (the year that never happened). Grant literally made big plays from day one. That leaping interception of the shoulder of the Panthers WR to pick off Matt Moore is one of my favorite plays from the 2010 season. When looking at the roster, Deon Grant technically is not a started, he is behind Phillips and Rolle. Granted (get it? his name is Grant?! yeah I know it's not funny) we play with 3 safeties on the field often, but someone who isn't familiar with the Giants would just see this guy as a backup. This guy made an impact on the field and outperformed expectations, yet still when looked at by other fans, isn't looked at as a big time player. He is UNDERRATED.
Ahmad Bradshaw- Some may scratch their heads and even say Bradshaw is overrated, but I tend to disagree. Yes he has fumbling problems, but so did Tiki ( yeah I know ya'll hate him) and Adrian Peterson. It's a fixable problem and half his fumbles came from the extra effort he was putting in to gain those extra yards so quit complaining and be happy you have a RB who cares. There are few guys tougher than AB. Despite injuries he still ran hard, cut hard, and gained yards after initial contact. Kinda sounds like.....Tiki Barber. In the perspective of who the top backs are in the league, you don't see toughness and effort used as factors in deciding who the best backs are. Because of this, and people crying about his fumbling problem, AB is UNDERRATED.
Bear Pascoe- Most Giants fans love this guy, but outside of Big Blue Nation, not many people know about this guy. They don't know that he was the only healthy TE during the preseason practices and workouts, carrying the workload of three guys. They don't know he didn't originally make the roster, pass through waivers, and sit on the Practice Squad of the Giants. They don't know that he stepped into an unfamiliar position and did a bang up job when Hedgecock (completely forgot this guy existed) went down. All they see is a guy with a really awesome name playing Fullback. This guy is always working hard, never complaining, and constantly doing what is best for the team. These are the reasons he is one of my favorite Giants on the roster. (That and yes, he really does have an awesome name.) It is blatantly obvious that Bear is UNDERRATED.
Kevin Boss- Wasn't sure if I was going to put the Bossman on here or not, but I'm not arguing that he is a great TE, just an underrated one. No, he doesn't always catch like a Wide Receiver, and no he doesn't always block like a Lineman, but he is a tough SOB and is always putting himself on the line for the team. His effort is always 100% and that alone makes him a valuable player on ANY team. I've watched this guy take some nasty hits and get back up and jog back to the huddle. Most these hits happened because he was busy jumping or leaping for poorly placed passes he had no business going for. Some say it's stupid, I say it's effort. I would love to see Boss in a Giants uniform next year, even though I have seen some guys here saying we shouldn't resign him. It appears that even among Giants fans Boss is UNDERRATED.
Derek Hagan - Playing on a team that has a great lineup of Receivers, Hagan is definitely overlooked. Guys like Nicks and Smith and Manningham are always getting the attention. But guys like Nicks and Smith and Manningham also can get hurt. This guy was pulled off the streets due to injuries to our studs, and performed admirably. He has sure hands and when I saw Eli throw his way, I was confident he would be making the play. The Giants know he is a valuable player, but his name isn't even on the NFL radar. This guy is UNDERRATED.
Eli Manning- Thought I'd save my "bombshell" for last. Some may be surprised to see Eli on here. A guy with a Superbowl ring on an underrated players list? A guy who is a proven winner? A guy who has registered 3,000 and 4,000 yard seasons throughout his career? Well don't be too surprised. As far as I'm concerned Eli gets no respect. We've had the argument of if Eli is "Elite" or not, but that isn't what this is about. He is an underrated QB despite the fact he is constantly winning. He hasn't had a losing season in his career with the exception of his rookie year. He has the ring. He is the guy I want leading the offense when there is 2 minutes left in the Superbowl and we're looking for a game-winning drive. Yet still, nobody likes Eli. Nobody respects Eli. Us Giants fans know better, we see his true value and are glad to have him as our QB, but other fans jeer him and tell us he how "bad" he is. No respect, and truly UNDERRATED.
Now I am sure that I probably forgot some guys on the roster that aren't valued as high as they should be, so feel free to mention anybody you consider underrated on the Giants. Also I'm sure there are other teams fans who have guys that are equally undervalued by the other 31 teams in the NFL, so feel free to let us Giants fans know who these guys are
FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.
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Boss, underrateds
Traveling around other SBN sites, there were a lot of fans talking about Boss as an option at TE. So the active fans know who he is.
If I had to pick underrated players, it would be Seubert and Snee. No one outside of NY knows anything about Seubert, and even though Snee makes Pro Bowls, he’s not often mentioned as one of the best guards in the league.
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun."
I'd add Steve Smith to this list
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
+12
"Sack-Forced Fumble-TD against any QB in the history of the NFL.... honestly, It would probably be Eli because I see him in pratice and we can't touch him (laughs)" - Justin Tuck
by The Always Well Dressed... on May 12, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The only reason I think Eli is under rated
is some many people call him over rated.
Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden
I'm going to get lambasted here
but Bear Pascoe is overrated by Giants fans. He’s a quality, solid all around guy and I love his work ethic, and blue collar attitude, but he’s not a dynamic pass catcher, he’s not a fantastic blocker and he’s not great at fullback.
He’s versatile jack of all trades master of none Third Tight End. If Bear Pascoe was replaced by say a Henry Hynoski, or a real quality guy like a La’Ron McClain at fullback he would not be missed on the field, but maybe in the locker room.
I actually think it’s pretty hard to be underrated in New York, but play for a team like buffalo and have an All-Pro season (not Pro-Bowl…All Pro season) like Kyle Williams had this past season and people don’t even notice.
Love the guy, glad he’s on big Blue, but he’s more heart than he is talent, which is why I love him so much, but if he were off the roster tommorrow it would not be a long lasting negative impact on the future of the team.
If I was going to say underrated players on the Giants (and I’ll buy Eli. EVERY year is he in the “overrated” lists, which is wrong), Iwould lean towards:
Jonathan Goff-people outside of Big Blue Nation think he’s trash, he’s a very two down linebacker, adequate three down linebacker
Mario Manningham-
I don’t think people realize this could would start on probably half the teams in the league tommorrow. 944 yards receiving and 9 touchdowns nearly 16 yards per reception and only started 8 games.
Bear is overrated
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on May 12, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting I'll try at this
Overrated -
Brandon Jacobs – Has had bad vision. He is always outrunning his blockers. He misses wide open holes. Has no instincts. Has no acceleration or explosion through the hole. He’s just a big guy with decent balance and his body gives me YAC. Big whoop. He is absolutely not better than Bradshaw
Ramses Barden – I’m not a huge fan of his, but some people predict he’s going to start for this team down the road. I don’t see it. Not only because of depth but he’s not as good as advertised. He dominated people in college because of his size/strength but the truth he lacks that burst/explosiveness to get separation and his route running is unpolished despite the flashes he showed in dallas. Can’t see him becoming anything more than a redzone/blocking specialist
Bear Pascoe – Fan favorite around these parts. Like someone said, not as good as advertised. Below average athlete, average blocker, and average receiving threat as TE. There’s a reason why he didn’t make the team although we needed him because of lack of depth at TE
Danny Ware – Don’t see anything special in this kid. Not fast, not explosive, doesn’t have great acceleration, doesn’t seem like a power back with great balance, nothing special about the kid. What does he do well as a back? He’s shifty and had a nice 08 preseason. Overrated and Scott beats him in camp
David Diehl – Most would agree that he’s not a good tackle, but some people feel he would make a great guard. That’s a load of bull. Even as a guard, he wasn’t very good. His struggles in run blocking are well documented. He plays with bad leverage and has short arms. He would be a backup on most teams in the NFL and the giants have been trying hard to unseat his ass
Michael Boley – Very overrated. Solid is the last thing I’d explain with him. He has bad instincts, has no work ethic in the weight room, doesn’t get off blocks, plays with bad technique, doesn’t make plays in coverage, and is constantly making mistakes on run defense because when big plays happen — it’s usually because of him. On most NFL teams he’s a career nickel back/run and chase guy and not a 3-down starter
Terrell Thomas – I’m a huge T2 fan but after watching some giants games on DVR, he’s not as good as I would convince myself to believe. He’s not a great athlete. He has average speed, average vertical leap, and lacks that burst into his breaks to limit separation against receivers. He’s just a press guy. I think he’s better fit in the slot but its ridiculous for some people to call him our best corner because he has nice highlight reel plays — they don’t tell the big picture
Clint Sintim – Some believe he can still be a starter for this team. Hell no, too stiff and lack of speed hurts him as a LB.
Linval Joseph – Some are calling him a beast in the making. While I agree he has potential, he’s still raw and needs development. Lets wait until he accomplishes something before we call him “the anvil”
Deon Grant – Struggles in zone coverage as he has poor route recognition and struggles to get a good drop in his coverages to excel in that area. As a run defender he has a tendency to overrun plays and isn’t very instinctive at all. Quite overrated if you ask me
Underrated
Mitch Petrus – The man is going to be a starter one day, I guarantee it.
Rich Seubert – Always a big fan of him. Defended him all the time when people kept calling for him to get cut/take the bench in favor of moving Diehl to guard. Doesn’t get enough love around here
Adam Koets – Talented guy. Fell in the draft because he was an extremely undersized LT.
Jim Sorgi – The guy is pretty good. Accurate, nice pocket instincts, good awareness. I like him
Rocky Bernard – Yeah, yeah, he doesn’t make the highlight reel plays (who at DT does around here?) but he’s talented. Extremely quick and gets penetration. He’s not a complete DT however but he is not complete trash. That is so overblown around here
Jonathan Goff – Really bad in coverage but good run defender
How can Sintim get a "hello no" and Petrus gets an "I guarantee it?"
Compare Mason Foster’s measurables to Clint Sintim’s. Sintim actually beats Foster in some things and he’s 2 inches taller and 11 lbs. heavier than Foster.
You can talk about vision and instincts and acceleration but the numbers show that Jacobs was more productive in his opportunities than Bradshaw was in his last year.
Not exactly sure what point you're trying to make, and why you even brought up mason foster into this
I suppose its fair for some people to base how a player is better than another player on purely production and nothing else. Fine. There’s no way I can argue with that since I find that ideology just absurd.
Did I mention production?
I clearly said “measurables” and you go off on a tangent on production.
You say that Clint Sintim cannot be a starter because he’s too stiff and lacks speed. Yet Mason Foster has many of the same measurables, including the ones that gauge speed and hips. If Foster can play LB and play it well, then so can Sintim.
Whoops sorry
when I was talking about production, i was talking about you saying jacobs is a better player than bradshaw because he had better YPC production. I absolutely don’t believe that alone simply makes him our best RB and better than bradshaw. That stat is way too raw and subjective to go by, it doesn’t tell the whole story.
But as far as the foster thing, i didnt get what point you were trying to make as it seemed like a random correlation. anyway i dont think mason foster is anywhere near as stiff as sintim, and although his speed isnt elite (4.7) on game day he moves laterally with ease and make tackles sideline to sideline (although he’ll get beat about once per game). Sintim struggles with his lateral agility a lot, you saw it at the senior bowl a few years ago and i remember him missing tackles against the texans. Lastly, Foster has superior instincts to sintim. Sintim is more of the akeem ayers type, he likes to sit in his lane and not give up the big play instead of attacking downhill (specifically as a LB off the ball)
That correlation isn’t a good one. Foster and Sintim are too different, even though they are both billed as “stiff” by some although foster isn’t as stiff as he’s made out to be in my opinion
You're reaching
I never said that Jacobs was better because of YPC alone. In fact, I didn’t mention any stats. I don’t know why you latched onto that one.
Foster should have better instincts as a LB. After all, that’s all he was in college. Sintim has to develop his feel for the position by getting playing time. You can’t develop instincts to play SAM by running returners down on special teams. While you say that Sintim struggled with lateral agility in the Senior Bowl, I read scouting reports that said his performance there is exactly why scouts thought he could be a 4-3 SAM.
Well, fact is, you say because Jacobs "Was more productive in his oppurtunities" I really wish you can elaborate on that one if u dont mean stats
Because as a whole I feel Bradshaw was more productive in every way besides one category: YPC, which is why I mentioned that.
As far as foster and sintim goes, im not talking about sintim now in terms of instincts. im talking about the sintim at virginia, the guy doesn’t play with the aggressive and instinctive style that foster plays with. And, yes, you proved my point further — he showed scouts he could be a 4-3 SAM, typically you want your SAM to be a 2-down run thumper, get less exposed in space, and get yanked on passing downs (in theory). Sintim is too stiff and his lateral agility isn’t good enough to be a complete LB or a starting LB for the Giants. I feel that your foster correlation has little merit, they aren’t similar plays. They play different styles, they have different size, different build, sintim has a much longer wingspan, just so different, different projections in the nfl, man its just not the same. Foster is slightly stiff (although I think hes more fluid than given credit for) but not as stiff as Sintim. Sintim lacks that short area burst that you typically want your linebackers to have in space, which is a category Foster is much more fluid than Sintim. And being 11 pounds heavier than Foster and 2 inches taller than Foster isnt really an advantage on Sintim’s part. Look at greg jones, with that weight he gained he lost some of that speed/explosiveness. It’s going to be rare to found a 255 lb with good lateral agility, especially with his thick legs and upper body (looks more like an undersized DE than a LB to me)
This is riduclous
This ‘analysis’ is based off confirmation bias. The only way we can measure productivity is being ignored why?
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
Analysis? Bias? Its giving opinions on whether a player is overrated/underrated. Lets not look too much into this
But anyway, if you disagree with me about something specifically and interested in changing my mind — shoot
I didn't say that I don't mean stats
I said that I never specified which stats I meant. You just assumed I meant YPC alone.
Alright, well
Well, do you think Jacobs is our best RB, or you just wanted to make the point that he was more productive, subjectively in your view that isn’t a fact, than Bradshaw last season? Because I have no interest in arguing about this further because its really hard to trying to read your stance if you disagree with me or just giving your opinion
Jacobs >>> Bradshaw
Jacobs had more yards, TDs, first downs, and runs of 20+ yards per carry and had fewer fumbles per carry than Bradshaw.
Jacobs:
147 carries / 9.2 carries per game / 823 yards / 5.6 AVG / 9 TDs / 2 fumbles / 2 lost
First down on 26.5% of his carries / 1 TD every 16 carries / 1 fumble every 74 carries
Bradshaw:
276 carries / 17.2 carries per game / 1,235 yards / 4.5 AVG / 8 TDs / 7 fumbles / 6 lost
First down on 22.1% of his carries / 1 TD every 31 carries / 1 fumble every 39 carries
Although he had 129 fewer carries, Jacobs had only three fewer runs of 20+ yards and 22 fewer first downs than Bradshaw.
Early in the season, our top three WRs were healthy and took pressure off the rush offense and our O-line hadn’t been compromised by the returns of Diehl and O’Hara. That’s when Bradshaw excelled. After the bye in Week 8, Bradshaw had two games of 4.0 YPC while Jacobs had five such games.
Hm
I don’t buy into the fact that when bradshaw was playing at a high level it was because of receivers healthy + better offensive line blocking and then once those two factors were gone it caused his struggles in the second half of the season. And really, when Diehl was out of the lineup that was like for 3 weeks in the second half of the season, and O’Hara despite struggling in pass protection, run blocked quite well all season, or at least when he returned he did.
Bradshaw routinely has the ability to make something out of nothing and make more yards out of plays with his elusiveness. There was some games where he had great blocking and easy holes to run through (detroit, @dallas) but I think in the other games for the first half of the season, his rushing yards were largely a success on his part. Like I said, his ability to make something out nothing (i.e: turning a no gain into a 3 yd gain), just seemingly anticipate holes getting open, and picking up yards after contact with his balance just as effective as jacobs was the biggest reasons to his success. Sure, maybe defenses didn’t game plan for our running game as much (but they certain did not neglect it) when our receivers were fully healthy, but based on the level of play solely from Bradshaw, I don’t think you’re giving him enough credit. Downplay him being NFL’s leading rusher by the bye week not because of the way he played on the field but the talent surrounding him, especially when he excelled by making plays not because of the talent around him, but rather by the majority of the time with his own ability? C’mon man
Plus, the most productive games Jacobs had after the bye was games where Bradshaw was productive as well. And games where Bradshaw struggled, so did Jacobs to an extent:
@Philly: Bradshaw 12 carries, 29 yards, Jacobs: 5 carries, 10 yards
Philly: Bradshaw: 19 carries, 66 yards ; Jacobs: 12 carries, 34 yards
@GB: Bradshaw: 12 carries, 31 yards ; Jacobs: 8 carries: 47 yards
@Was: Bradshaw: 15 carries, 22 yards ; Jacobs: 13 carries, 49 yards
Despite your ideology that Bradshaw struggled in the second half because defenses game planned for the running game more, Jacobs also wansn’t overly impressive in these specific games that Bradshaw had trouble in. Games where Jacobs played extremely well (Washington, Jacksonville, Minnesotta), Bradshaw played great in as well. Even though Jacobs was statistically better against Green Bay and seattle, when Jacobs took advantage of his oppurtunities in those games it wasn’t like he was playing visibly superior than Bradshaw there. Jacobs was also more fresh, we’ve seen him decline late in the season in the past as well when he was the workhorse of the offense. If he were in Bradshaw’s position he’d probably not have a great second half either. Plus, anyway, when Jacobs was having his best games ; Bradshaw was playing at a high level as well.
In terms of playing style Bradshaw is better. He has better elusiveness, better explosiveness, better short area burst, better short area quickness, better change of direction ability, better vision/instincts, better discipline, slightly better receiving ability (they both struggle in this area despite jacobs soft hands), his innate ability to get something out nothing is better, better balance, and the more consistent ability to get yards after contact in short areas (jacobs is no slouch in this area, but in short yardage there was situations last year where bradshaw was trusted more and gilbride even said bradshaw is better than jacobs in that area too). Sum it up, while Jacobs played well in the second half of the year, in his 3 most productive games Bradshaw excelled in as well. Combine that with Bradshaw being the better athlete, with better running skills, and visibly better production makes him the overall better back despite a more fresh Jacobs having impressive stats in the second half of the year with limited carries. Yeah, Bradshaw fell off after the bye but the majority of the game when he was unimpressive I’ve shown that jacobs was as well and vice-versa. I can’t lead myself to believe Jacobs is our best RB man
Whatever the reasons
Bradshaw was not the same player after the bye. His numbers bear that out.
Jacobs averaged 5.9 YPC in the GB game. Bradshaw averaged 2.6 YPC. In no objective analysis are those two numbers comparable but somehow you see that Jacobs struggled.
In the first Washington game, Jacobs had 103 yards on 8 carries while Bradshaw couldn’t reach 100 yards on 25 carries. So no, Bradshaw didn’t excel in every game that Jacobs excelled.
You said a whole lot in an effort to dismiss the numbers but all that talk about elusiveness and burst and athleticism is inconsequential to me. All that matters is production. I gave you actual numbers that showed Jacobs did better in his opportunities than Bradshaw.
In Jacobs amazingly productive second half season when he was more fresh/healthier in bradshaw that you love to value so much
his most productive games that stands out to the others
Jacobs:
Washington Redskins: 8 carries, 103 yards
Jacksonville Jaguars: 14 carries, 87 yards
Minnesotta Vikings: 14 carries, 116 yards
Bradshaw:
Washington Redskins: 25 carries, 97 yards
Jags: 9 carries, 49 yards
Vikings: 11 caries, 103 yards
Again, Jacobs best games after the bye were bradshaw’s best games after the bye as well. That’s something you can’t deny here even though Bradshaw didn’t play well after the bye as a whole. Take a shot at bradshaw for falling just short of popping a 4.0 YPC against the redskins but if you watched the game, he was productive and played great. You can’t use YPC argument here, I’m pretty sure if Jacobs was the one in that game with 25 carries his numbers would probably be around 4 YPC too instead of that ridiculously inflated/skewed 12 yards per carry that everyone knew at the time (and logically speaking as well).
I also see that GB game as both backs struggling. Jacobs had a nice 20 yard run when clay matthews overran the play and left his gap wide open, but besides that play he didn’t do much on the day along with bradshaw. the running game was a non factor with the giants behind all day.
3 games of great production from Jacobs in the second half of the season where bradshaw was unimpressive as a whole — but also Bradshaw having his best 3 best games of the second half season simultaneous with Jacobs, isnt enough to convince me that jacobs is our best back and makes bradshaw’s first half of the season irrelevant. Bradshaw being the better athlete and the more skilled returner (also forgot to mention in my last post bradshaw is better in pass protection than Jacobs too) only makes this much more difficult to prove further
Hahaha
Jacobs had a nice 20 yard run when clay matthews overran the play and left his gap wide open
Now you’re dismissing Jacobs because opposing players made mistakes. OK.
lets not act like you dismissed's bradshaw success as a rusher
in the first half of the season because our receivers were healthy and bradshaw was able to flourish without defenses keying in on the run as much.
Anyway yeah I was downplaying that 20 yd run lol, but really, i dont like that game as an example to your argument that jacobs is more productive when given the oppurtunity because that run i feel is misleading to jacobs (and bradshaws) day. But anyway talking about that one particular one was far from my main point.. u might want to address my other points if u want
I never said that was the only reason why he had success
I said that when those things weren’t available to him in the 2nd half, he struggled.
with bradshaw thriving in the same conditions that jacobs did in the 2nd half (not as good, but considerably better than games he struggled in @ 2nd half of season)
With games where if Bradshaw was sub-par, so was Jacobs with the exception of the game against green bay which in actuality the running game as a whole was a non factor that day
For the most part I agree there
except for the players like Sintim, Barden, Petrus, Joseph…all these guys haven’t gotten on the field. No one in their right mind can rate them any which way. You don’t have anything to rate them on.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on May 12, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. I just find it when people praise them outside of their potential, it makes those certain players a bit overrated
Im absolutely a fan of linval joseph though. But i think hes a tad bit overrated when people assume he’s an upgrade over cofield despite the fact that he’s still raw and needs development.
And I think Petrus is underrated because everyone keeps talking about the need for interior in the draft when I think he can play center in the NFL and start there. From that view point, he’s underrated in my opinion
I'd be agreeable to this list...especially your "underrated guys"
however, I dunno if you can say Danny Ware is overrated when the dude hasn’t been on the field due to injury and re-upped for relatively little.
Bow to the Fresh Prince of the Meadowlands.
by BigBlueIntervention on May 12, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Not lately, but over the years
people keep praising the preseason he had a couple of years ago and calling for him to get carries and see the field. From that standpoint, he’s a little overrated in my opinion.
When I describe Thomas
I just say, average in coverage, but a play maker. You can live with guy who aren’t grea itn coverage, but can make plays, and that’s T.T.
by EliManCrushing on May 12, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
T2
I’ve been having this arguement with my cousin for 2 years now. I think T2 is highly overrated and it seems teams like the Eagles specifically pick on him. You’re dead on about him getting out of his breaks and the Eagles exploited that in the first game last year with Macklin. In coverage where he isnt forced to make extreme cuts he is usually in really good position and I usually think he is going to get an INT but he always seems to stumble at the last second or seems to mistime his jump. (see 1:22 mark of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hokXVOOVXSo )
Yeah
I think as a press corner, you can hide that you have no speed/burst in your breaks and lack speed (as long as the QB doesnt have time). I think terrell thomas is a very talented blitzer and would fit great in the slot. It’s not like they drafted T2 to be a starter on the outside anyway
Not better than Bradshaw?
Based of one solid year? Or are we gonna add in the grittiness and the heart and determination in this evaluation?
Bradshaw’s aren’t hard to find in the NFL. Brandon Jacob’s are.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
How are Bradshaw not hard to find?
And Jacobs easy? Because of Jacobs’ size? Its hard to find backs at his size, but that’s about it. I don’t understand the logic of Jacobs “being hard to find” makes him our best RB and a better RB than bradshaw.
Don’t make this into an argument about how jacobs is a bad player or not, which is what I’m not saying at all. I personally believe he’s overrated in the sense that some believe he is our best RB. I like Jacobs but the things I said detrimental about him are all qualities Bradshaw has a considerable advantage in (most of them). From a talent perspective, Bradshaw is our best back. Not Jacobs.
boothe
no pun intended, but he saved our ass when we put him in at center, plus he fills in solidly wherever he is played, considering he was listed as a tackle i wanna say, and moved everywhere on the line, versatile, but not seubert, nor will he ever be
"I like prime rib, and I'd love to win a Super Bowl" -Andy Reid
I agree whole-freaking-heartedly
the dude literally was the glue for the OL this season. Played any position we asked him to.
Bow to the Fresh Prince of the Meadowlands.
by BigBlueIntervention on May 12, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
true
probably one of the best RTs in the NFL
Bow to the Fresh Prince of the Meadowlands.
by BigBlueIntervention on May 12, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
PFF
said he was last year.
Even if you don’t buy into their ratings, he was definitely one of the best RTs last year.
Too bad RTs don’t make pro bowls…
Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden
I think we can all agree that the Giants, as a team, have been over rated
over the past two seasons. It hurts to say that.
sigh...
over rated may be a bit strong
cause I refurse to say it. But at least half of the teams are overrated by their fans, its what we all do. I’d prefer ‘under performed’ for this team but sadly yours might be more truthful. Sigh….
"Sack-Forced Fumble-TD against any QB in the history of the NFL.... honestly, It would probably be Eli because I see him in pratice and we can't touch him (laughs)" - Justin Tuck
by The Always Well Dressed... on May 12, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, yes...I rate the Giants #1 blindly every year because thats how it should be...from the fan side
I think Ghost has a point below…this team does have the talent to get it done but the seem to lose their way. You’ve gotta be able to hold it together.
sigh...
this is true
another sigh…..
"Sack-Forced Fumble-TD against any QB in the history of the NFL.... honestly, It would probably be Eli because I see him in pratice and we can't touch him (laughs)" - Justin Tuck
by The Always Well Dressed... on May 13, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
The coaching staff is overrated
There was plenty of talent on this team to make the playoffs last year and do some damage.
by GhostDini on May 13, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
agreed
"Sack-Forced Fumble-TD against any QB in the history of the NFL.... honestly, It would probably be Eli because I see him in pratice and we can't touch him (laughs)" - Justin Tuck
by The Always Well Dressed... on May 13, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
couldn't have said it better
For some reason TC is constantly held in high regard by those around the league who have a platform for telling us their opinion. I think this is because of the old school throwback image that Coughlin portrays, writers like reminiscing about the days of old and TC is a magnet for their affections because of this.
But for those of us who watched him coach over the past 5 or so years we’ve seen many a flaw in his ability on the sideline. The Giants hardly ever blow away a weak opponent, they always seem to play down to the level of the opponent, (players or gameplan???) The willingness/ability to adjust during a game has been fairly non existent especially in these last two years. And my biggest gripe is the overly conservative calls down the stretch. This has cost us games and made otherwise easy victories, reason for me to invest in alka seltzer, tums, and every other antacid i can find.
Prove me wrong TC.
Those late in games
conservative play calls are almost as infuriating as the turnovers. The coaching staff needs to play with a killer instinct late in games when we have a lead. Don’t play not to lose! You gotta follow Herm Edwards’ advice! “Hello! You play to win the game!”
Just get it done already...
I agree that Cweb is underrated
real shocker there
I also think Pascoe is severly OVERrated….great guy, I hope he can be that blocking TE we need, but I’m not holding my breath.
FIX IT
Let's jsut add
every non star player on the list…
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
Bruce Johnson
As a 4th string CB and now the 5th so underrated was injured last year
The guy made 1 play...
and AP changed the play and confused Romo causing him to throw it right to Johnson for an easy pick. Other then that play everytime he’s on the field he gets picked on, I don’t understand the lovefest for him!
"bleedblue12 is an idiot"-wild_eagle
"The Eagles still have 0 SB wins"-bleedblue12
by bleedblue12 on May 20, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Really Good Article
In my short time here, I’ve realized that most of you don’t like ESPN. I think this is a good article about redrafting the NFL for 2006-2008. Basically it is saying the Giants have had the 6th best drafts in those 3 years. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6528474
Underrated commentors at BBV:
Give it to 44
DannyMac
Blue Gonz
trueblue63
Bigblue777 (yup…him too)
FIX IT
I've noticed
a lot of bright things coming out of AJ_in_VA
hey, waitasec, I’M not on that list! So much for comic relief.
Details of the operations of an interstate dog fighting ring were revealed, with some portions involving drugs and gambling. Gruesome details involving abuse, torture and execution of under-performing dogs ... He admitted to being involved in the destruction of 6–8 dogs, by hanging or drowning...
by Simms-McConkey on May 13, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I know I missed some folks.
and AJ does get a honorable mention
but regs such as you, ghost, fly, Will, TAWD, etc, etc, etc, etc….don’t make the list. b/c well, your regs….
those guys (I listed) hardly ever post any more….and they should.
FIX IT
I dunno if I'd put Blue Gonz aka George Cronin as "underrated."
Because he’s top 3 on my draft board…
I’ve noticed there’s some archetypes of commenters…
the tech: Extensive knowledge of scheme and theory.
the historian: Anyone who mentions Y.A. Tittle
the kid: Anyone who doesn’t vividly remember watching wide right.
the hothead: Eagels suck! Let’s fight about it!
the draftnik: Lookin at FBR44
the comedian: (who, me?)
The homer: (who, me?)
The Zillag: 2011 prediction: No football. If there is football, 4-12. Sigh
Details of the operations of an interstate dog fighting ring were revealed, with some portions involving drugs and gambling. Gruesome details involving abuse, torture and execution of under-performing dogs ... He admitted to being involved in the destruction of 6–8 dogs, by hanging or drowning...
by Simms-McConkey on May 13, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
top 3 on my big board too
but there are too many people here who don’t know him….
and don’t forget:
The Protagonist.
FIX IT
please describe
Details of the operations of an interstate dog fighting ring were revealed, with some portions involving drugs and gambling. Gruesome details involving abuse, torture and execution of under-performing dogs ... He admitted to being involved in the destruction of 6–8 dogs, by hanging or drowning...
by Simms-McConkey on May 13, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
prefyxlexia
Details of the operations of an interstate dog fighting ring were revealed, with some portions involving drugs and gambling. Gruesome details involving abuse, torture and execution of under-performing dogs ... He admitted to being involved in the destruction of 6–8 dogs, by hanging or drowning...
by Simms-McConkey on May 13, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I haz a sad for not making said list
It’s cool though, I like being overrated lol
Bow to the Fresh Prince of the Meadowlands.
by BigBlueIntervention on May 13, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
ur a Reg man....
just like myself.
we’re not over rated or under rated….mainly b/c were here enough to the point where everyone knows us, and rates us accordingly…
FIX IT
haha true that
Bow to the Fresh Prince of the Meadowlands.
by BigBlueIntervention on May 13, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I give myself a 10
on a scale of 1-9
Details of the operations of an interstate dog fighting ring were revealed, with some portions involving drugs and gambling. Gruesome details involving abuse, torture and execution of under-performing dogs ... He admitted to being involved in the destruction of 6–8 dogs, by hanging or drowning...
by Simms-McConkey on May 16, 2011 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I am the historicaly kid
by your ratings.
I love me some Y.A. but I wasn’t born yet when Norwood played shankapotamus.
Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden
TAWD
almost sounds like an insulting word, like “get the hell out of here you stupid twad”
"Sack-Forced Fumble-TD against any QB in the history of the NFL.... honestly, It would probably be Eli because I see him in pratice and we can't touch him (laughs)" - Justin Tuck
by The Always Well Dressed... on May 13, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
If I had to add to the list
Overrated
JPP – I really love JPP but I think its premature calling him a home run pick. I think he’ll be a tremendous player obviously because of our d-lineman and his work ethic, but we should wait until at least the end of the 2011 pick before we say he was absolutely the right pick at number 15 and is going to be a stud for years and years to come. He’s had some great games (jacksonville, redskins) but other games where he was just adequate but not great. Like they say don’t judge a player over a 1 bad year, don’t judge a player over one good year as well.
and this is where homerism gets in the way of rational evaluation.
I love me some JPP. And feel like the limited time needs to become full time. I agree with ya, we can’t crown him jsut yet but the flashes shown by a guy who was supposed to be a project that will take years to hit his full potential have me writing idiotic statements like moving Tuck to SAM so that JPP can be on the field full time.
Prove me wrong TC.
This is just as ridiculous as the other unproven players
JPP is not rated yet. How can he be overrated? He had a decent rookie (ROOKIE!!!!) season in which he was basically the 4th DE on the depth chart.
I’m not sure who’s calling him a HR pick, but its pretty obvious to all of those who just aren’t going out of their way to be contrarian that the kid has potential and showed it.
rational evaluation would say you need to be patient. Not call him over or under rated or rate him at all.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
There has definetly been
some level of “anointing” around here when it comes to JPP. I have seen various people posting opinions about him over the last couple of months that sound as if JPP made a huge contribution to the defense. Way too much has been made of his rookie season by way too many people. He showed flashes of the “beastness” we are hoping for. That’s it.
He is building a solid foundation for his career. If his play as a raw rookie is any indication, he should take another big step forward this year IMO. And I can’t wait to see what he does next…
Just get it done already...
I agree, I've read lots of premature things about JPP
and the reality is, like you said it was just flashes. outside of his dominant game against the jaguars, his rookie season as a whole showed tons of potential but just adequate overall and not great. Fan of the guy as much as anyone but its too early to judge the pick imo on anything more than the fact that hes a player who has great upside and had nice flashes
I think we're all missing an underrated....
BOMAR! He’s still with the team, just not physicially, only in our hearts.
"Oh sir, the Giants of New York took on the Packers of Green Bay. And in the end, the Giants triumphed by kicking an oblong ball made of pigskin through a big "H". It was a most ripping victory."
one can only hope
"Oh sir, the Giants of New York took on the Packers of Green Bay. And in the end, the Giants triumphed by kicking an oblong ball made of pigskin through a big "H". It was a most ripping victory."
BTW, I like your sig.
I finally remembered where that is from! Eddie Murphy in “Coming To America”, yes?
Just get it done already...
You got it!
And I had it before Prince came to the Giants! Foreshadowing, maybe?
"Oh sir, the Giants of New York took on the Packers of Green Bay. And in the end, the Giants triumphed by kicking an oblong ball made of pigskin through a big "H". It was a most ripping victory."
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