A link about the Giants Secondary vs. GB

by andiamo708 on May 10, 2011 2:24 PM EDT

I posted this Link in the Asomugha thread but noticed that it's no longer on the front page, so I'm coming here.

Not really trying to make this a Cweb thread at all, but I think as Giants fans we need to be more aware of what is going on with this team, especially on Defense, and collectively we need to realize that there is more involved than just getting 11 guys out there on Defense simultaneously that all have matching uniforms.

Reading the Asomugha thread and the comments from readers calling for Cweb to be cut I thought it was appropriate that I happened to stumble across this article at Ultimate NYG. It talks about the GB game. A game that I specifically used as an example in defending Cweb. Yes, I actually used the GB game to defend Cweb.

Now granted Ultimate NYG doesn't hit on all the points I made in the thread (i.e. the Giants were in fact playing PRESS, up until Rolle and KP decided to play like CC Brown and Aaron Rouse and surrender 2 quick TDs). BUT what they do is break down exactly how many time Fewell has his corners in PRESS and OFF coverage. They also take the time to point out what EVERYONE already knows and has been known for 3 years now; Corey Webster and Terrell Thomas are PRESS CORNERS.

Ok, here is the link.

http://www.ultimatenyg.com/2011-articles/may/tampa-2-vs-rodgers.html

I know a lot of you guys will probably roll your eyes and ignore it, but remember, these are still the same guys that Ed asked to contribute to the Giants Maple Street Press. So while their opinions are not the "norm" here, I think it's still a great read....and when they stick to stats, well it's hard to ignore.

FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.

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I know someone who rec'd this

sigh...

by nywins42 on May 11, 2011 8:25 AM EDT reply actions

rec’d cuz I’m tired of seeing CWeb get knocked.

I wish someone would do something like this for Steve Smith and Chris Canty too. I would say Barry Cofield, but it appears Bro is probably gone… :(

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on May 11, 2011 8:38 AM EDT reply actions

Who was suggesting we get of rid of our best corner

and who was taking them seriously

"The NFL doesn’t have $15 million reserve power forwards, though. It doesn’t have lazy, out-of-shape right fielders batting .189. Football players compete hard. They sacrifice. They risk permanent injuries and long-term brain issues. They can get cut at any time. Of all the pro athletes out there, they earn their money."

by sejo28 on May 11, 2011 10:04 AM EDT reply actions

getting rid of Cweb

is nothing I would even entertain or take seriously, but the point of this exercise was to show folks how Fewell uses his Corners.

In discussing Asomugha a lot of people were quick to quick to point out that you can put him on his own island and how he’s in PRESS on every play. Something Spags did w/ Cweb in ’07 and ’08.

for the past two years the Giants DC’s have NOT run this scheme…in fact it’s more “off” coverage than anything….and while some say that it doesn’t matter, i disagree and think it does….a lot.

FIX IT

by andiamo708 on May 11, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions

I like the guys at unltimatenyg

They’re crusty and opinionated, and I wish they’d lighten up, laugh a little and not write with occasional ALL CAPS, but they are trying to develop some quantitative approaches, and that’s not all bad. I also don’t at all mind well thought out alternate points of view.

I don’t know if I agree with them all the time, but I tend to learn when I go over there.

GhostDini also had a discussion of that cover two man play against Green Bay, and had similar conclusions, if not exactly the same.

The main difference I can see is GhostDini basically faults the execution of the coverage based on his review of the Tampa 2 set in Cover 2 Man. The guys at UltimateNYG blame the scheme more than the players, saying the scheme is bad and doesn’t match the strengths of our CB’s as press cover guys, and we don’t have the LB talent to make it work either.

Everyone seems to agree that Rolle has no business playing the nickel CB and he blew his coverage anyway. And both GhostDini and the ultimatenyg guys could both be partly right.

I’d really like to see what happens this year in Fewell’s second year.

> Will he make adjustments based on a better understanding of the personnel?

> Will adding a first round corner ease things up a bit in the nickel?

> Will our LB’s perform well enough or will we continue to get toasted by better QB’s over the middle?

> Will the players learn how better to execute Fewell’s approach, assuming the approach itself can be successful?

> Is the T2 approach just not good enough for a championship team in today’s NFL (as the ultimatenyg guys argue), or can it be successful against top competition if the talent and execution are right?

> Will the maturation of JPP or changes in the DT’s help us get more consistent pressure so that we’re not as vulnerable to the big play because even better QB’s can’t get time to throw or make best decisions (as in the SB game against the Pats)?

Those are just the main questions that pop out in my mind for our defense, off the top of my head.

by AJ_in_VA on May 11, 2011 10:57 AM EDT reply actions

I'm big on continuity

I’m not a huge fan of the T2, but I think if you’re going to go 75% of the way…you might as well go 100% of the way.

In my mind, I tell myself that Fewell used Rolle all over the place simply b/c he didn’t trust his LBs or Aaron Ross (in the slot).

w/ that said I hope that w/ Prince…Fewell is now able to find a Base D and a Nickel D that he trust and can run out there w/ regularity.

Keep Rolle as a T2 Safety and let him get used to it. You need run support, go w/ a LB, you need a slot Corner…go w/ Prince. Leave Rolle alone b/c he simply can’t handle the work load and he basically admitted this when the season ended….

FIX IT

by andiamo708 on May 11, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions

granted i know that is contingent

on finding another 3 down LB.

and of course, Prince being able to shoulder the load an Nickel CB essentially from wk 1.

FIX IT

by andiamo708 on May 11, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't like the T2 scheme either

I’ve always maintained that it doesn’t fit our players and that Fewell isn’t doing enough to cater it to the personnel on the team. Nonetheless, it’s what we have so the players have to execute it.

by GhostDini on May 11, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions

so that's another area of agreement

makes sense.

by AJ_in_VA on May 11, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed

Just get it done already...

by tommy d. on May 11, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions

and I think they will be able to execute it

at least a little better…

once they get comfortable playing w/ more continuity.

you know we’ve gone back and forth on this for a while…since basically ’09. Since I basically saw the Corners switching from Press to Off coverage w/ literally no reasoning behind it. And saw Single High and than Cover 2 w/ the Safeties….again, w/ no rhyme or reason.

I’m not saying get stagnant or be afraid to blitz, or put someone in man coverage. Heck, you know I think CWeb should be able to handle that Man coverage, so yeah, get creative, stack the box if you want, bring the blitz, just be aware of who you have matched up 1 on 1 in the slot or on the outside. And shift your help over to the side that needs it most. and most importantly, if you do give up a score, don’t lose all faith and throw the baby out w/ the bath water…stick w/ what you beleive. That’s how guys learn how to play w/ one another….

FIX IT

by andiamo708 on May 11, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions