My (Slightly Impassioned) Argument For Akeem Ayers
Inspired by EliManCrushing's piece on Mike Pouncey, I wanted to present my argument FOR Akeem Ayers. I've been beating the drum for the New York Giants to pick him since forever, and I feel that I should back it up. Regardless, I'm convinced that the pick won't be Ayers (it'll be OL - Pouncey, Castonzo, etc.).
This is not to convince anyone that Ayers is a better prospect than Pouncey (two different positions, two different needs). This is merely to allay any concerns if he DOES end up being the pick, come April 28th.
Reported Strengths: Scheme versatility, pass coverage, reading passing offense, pass rushingReported Weaknesses: Run defense, "soft", "instincts," "athleticism" (scouting reports and comments)
I watched a bunch of UCLA games last year, and Ayers has had great games (like against Kansas St.) and poor games (like against Oregon). There's tape of both available on youtube, if you'd like to look it up. I'm going to reference his game against Stanford, however, and break down some of that tape because I feel that it represents a microcosm of what Ayers brings to the table as a potential pick. Let me remind you as well, Stanford is no slouch, they're headed by the top overall prospect in the nation, Andrew Luck. Here's the link:
Breakdown
Play 1 (0:00-0:14): Ayers is set slightly off the line. Drops back in zone coverage, diagnoses the run play, and runs all the way to the other side of the field to get a hit on the running back. What it shows: Excellent motor and athleticism to move across the field to lay a hit.
Play 2 (0:14-0:25): Again, Ayers is set slightly off the line, but this time, his assignment is to rush the passer on a blitz. He was unblocked and was able to make a tackle-for-loss against the running back. What it shows: Not much, except that Ayers is a good tackler (which he is; has good technique).
Play 3 (0:26-0:45): Ayers is finally in the typical LB position and immediately rushes down on the strong side. He overcomes a block, and though he doesn't make the tackle, his pursuit forces the RB to bounce to the outside, preventing the big play. What it shows: Shows basically what the reports say in terms of run defense. Ayers will not be an elite run defender at the next level as he can't make that extreme lateral cut to take down the RB (then again, there are very very few that could make that play), but it also shows that he has plenty of athleticism to take on a low block and recover quick enough to make a positive impact on the play.
Play 4 (0:46-0:57): Ayers has his hand on the ground in a 3-man defensive front, and is able to get some pressure, but not in time to rattle the passer. What it shows: Ayers uses more of his natural athleticism than technique. He shows some power in being able to drive back two blockers, but uses a bull rush and can't get to the QB in time,.
Play 5 (0:58-1:08): Ayers is back off the line standing up, and initially is in coverage over the WR. He diagnoses the run play, but cannot get off the block in time to make the tackle before the 1st down. What it shows: Granted, this wasn't his fault somewhat, as his job was the seal off the edge and stay in coverage. However it does show that Ayers does struggle somewhat in shedding blocks.
Play 6 (1:08-1:18): Ayers is in the LB spot and runs up to make the tackle, but is effectively blocked out of the play. What it shows: This was somewhat of a goof, by Ayers, but I'm pretty sure that's a hold on the offensive lineman that took him down.
Play 7 (1:19-1:33): Now this is a nice play. Ayers comes up from the LB spot to make a nice tackle on the RB after a short gain. What it shows: This is the potential that Ayers has. He has the ability to navigate the "wash" to make a textbook tackle on the RB, who happened to run on the OTHER SIDE. That showcases Ayers lateral agility and deceptive speed, not to mention, contradicting the fact that Ayers "let's the play come to him and is soft and doesn't swarm to the ball."
Play 8 (1:34-1:44): Ayers maintains his edge and makes a play on the running back in his direction. What it shows: Ayers again struggles somewhat to shed his blocks, but is athletic enough to make a play on the RB that tries to run by.
Play 9 (1:45-1:58): This time, he's up at the LOS and goes back in coverage. The player in his zone makes the catch. What it shows: Even though it was not Ayers' man, it shows his smooth backpedal and fluid hips as he is able to turn around and tackle the WR. This was more a testament to a beautiful pass splitting the coverage more than Ayers' pass coverage.
Play 10 (1:59-2:10): This is probably the play that makes me want to have Ayers in Big Blue next season. Ayers is coming up to blitz, but backs off and makes a play on Andrew Luck. What it shows: Anybody questioning Ayers' "instincts" or "intelligence" please look at this play. Ayers is clearly rushing the passer, however, he diagnosed the play, and stayed in his zone. If he had rushed, Luck could have passed to number 8, who was curling back, because there would be nobody covering the zone underneath. Ayers comes back, gives Luck nowhere to throw, and comes up with forcing him out for marginal yardage. Beautiful play by Ayers.
Play 11 (2:11-2:20): Ayers is taking up the MLB spot here and runs straight to meet the RB head on. What this shows: Again, the tape shows that Ayers struggles shedding blocks, but still manages to make the tackle.
Play 12 (2:21-2:31): Ayers has his hand on the ground, and makes his away across the line of scrimmage to make the tackle on the RB. What this shows: The RB was able to get the 1st down, but once again, Ayers navigates his way from being the furthest away from the play to making the tackle. It shows fluidity and agility, but most of all, it shows his motor.
Play 13 (2:32-2:43): This is probably the worst play that Ayers makes all night. He cannot disengage his blocker to get to the RB to make the play. What this shows: What's already been confirmed. Ayers has trouble shedding OL blocks.
Play 14 (2:44-2:58): Similar play to the last one, this time though, Ayers fares a little bit better disengaging his block. What this shows: See, play 13.
Play 15 (2:59-3:08): Ayers stacks up in the wash and makes the play against the run with a violent tackle. What this shows: That was a nasty tackle and anybody saying that he doesn't have the fire can just look to this play.
What this confirms is that if Akeem Ayers joins New York next season, he instantly becomes the most talented and athletic LB on our team. His versatility, whether it is playing close to the line, with his hand on the ground, or in the standard SLB position, is what defines Ayers and is what gives him virtually unlimited upside. He is absolutely perfect for Fewell's Tampa-2 defense. Why? Because this versatility allows Fewell to mold him however he sees fit.
Our very own Rorschach44 described Ayers as a "WILL in a SAM's body." Well, my friends, at 6-foot-4 258 pounds, with the ability to run a 4.68, that is EXACTLY what we need. His zone pass coverage is SECOND-TO-NONE in this draft class. He is a strong pass rusher, arguably the best one that fits in a 4-3 defense. While he is not as aggressive as, say, Martez Wilson or Bruce Carter, he has an incredible motor. He does not give up on plays and was the defensive MVP and team captain of UCLA. He has very fast reaction time and can diagnose PASSING plays well.
His biggest weakness, that is the strength to shed blocks, is correctable, as he has a frame where he can add more bulk if need be. Put him next to Goff, who is supremely underrated by the rest of the league in terms of run defense, and he provides the safety valve in pass coverage. He has the agility to be very successful in run blitzes, with the intelligence to know when to back off. Put him behind our defensive line and he has the tools to lock down coverage and let our safeties play back, and instantly improve the secondary.
My view is that the Giants do not have that one missing link on defense in order to be a truly shut down group. One may argue that one player can't make that much of a difference, especially as a LB in a 4-3. I think they can. A prospect with Ayers' size and agility (not speed; agility is much more important for a LB and Ayers in all drills looked the most fluid at the combine) combined with his intelligence in zone coverage can boost both the secondary and give more free reign on the defensive front.
I truly do believe that if you want that difference maker (and I think Ayers is the top 4-3 LB in the draft), then you take him, do not settle. Ayers has that ability to be the difference maker, and that's why I'll be ecstatic if his name is called for the 19th pick in the draft.
EDIT: I'd also like to allay those athleticism concerns by pulling out some measurables for you guys, and comparing them to JPP (who was hailed as an "athletic freak" that could have played 3-4 OLB)
Height/Weight
JPP - 6'5 265lbs
AA - 6'4 258lbs
40 yd. Dash
JPP - 4.67
AA - 4.68
Bench Press
JPP - 19
AA - 22
Broad Jump
JPP - 9'7
AA- 9'8
Vertical Jump
JPP - 30.5"
AA - 31"
FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.
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Comments
Doesn't Michael Boley share in these same
strengths and weaknesses? This isn’t my first round pick, if you want dependable defenders, ones that can stack and shed and make tackles at the point of attack then he isn’t your guy but if you want your player to make all of their tackles 7-8 yards from scrimmage he is that guy. Wht good is he on 3rd & 1? Or on 4th & goal from the 1? This is your first round pick who is a liabilty in these situations from the outset and who knows if that’ll ever change. I say soft is soft and that will never change. Name one player who was perceived as such and changed that perception after entering the league? Neither can I. I think we need to pass on him in the first round and get a Mason Foster in the second or third.
by Robin's-meats-and-vegetables on Apr 8, 2011 7:30 PM EDT reply actions
after all that, I still fail to realize why he's "soft"
Doesn’t Michael Boley share in these same strengths and weaknesses?
Akeem Ayers ran the EXACT same 40 yd dash time as Michael Boley, except Ayers has about 35 lbs and 2" on him with a frame to add on more. Trust me when I say he hits alot harder than Boley.
if you want dependable defenders, ones that can stack and shed and make tackles at the point of attack then he isn’t your guy but if you want your player to make all of their tackles 7-8 yards from scrimmage he is that guy.
I really hope you didn’t see the link I posted when you said that. Most every single play that was shown was the rb running the OPPOSITE side that Ayers lined up. It was because of his hustle and motor that he crossed the length of the field and made the tackle instead of his teammates. If you saw the plays where the rb ran on Ayers’ side, he either disrupted the play like “play 3” or make the tackle EVEN THOUGH HE’S GETTING BLOCKED like in plays 7 or 8.
If Ayers’ only weakness is shedding blocks easily (and that too, its not like every time he gets blocked he can’t disengage in this game it only happened twice and he often uses his athleticism to get away) I’ll take it all day everyday.
Mason Foster in the second or third
Foster sucks compared to Ayers when it comes to pass coverage, and also has some trouble shedding blocks as well. Plus Foster is shorter and lighter than Ayers, is nowhere near as smooth, and ran a slower 40 then Akeem. Ayers’ “instincts” are on par with Foster. I don’t understand why people think Mason Foster = Akeem Ayers.
I’m a Pac-10 follower so I’ve seen plenty of both Ayers and Foster. Both played on crappy defenses (the only other name worth mentioning on UCLA’s defense is Rahim Moore) and both were team captains, have great instincts. Ayers has raw athleticism on his side, plus the fluidity, pass coverage read and react, and lateral agility. THAT is why he’s worthy of a 1st round pick.
Before the combine, he was a lock at top-15. Now the same people who say the combine doesn’t matter are saying that he’s at the bottom half of round 1. Because he ran the 40 badly JUST ONCE. It’s bs, pure and simple.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 8, 2011 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
those crossed lines aren't supposed to be there
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 8, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I've liked Ayers,
but now I like him even more. Thanks for the links.
"Richard, who's your favorite little rascal? Is it Alfalfa?... Or is it SPANKY?... Sinner. :-)
you make some good points...
although not enough for me to want to like him…but you started off with that caveat that you weren’t stating this for that sole reason anyway.
Nice write up though.
But, while I agree to some respect, I don’t think he still warrants a 19th pick just b/c we want a LB. At that spot, if we select mostly on BPA – then NO. At a lower spot in the 1st, a few spots later than I (notice I said “I”) – would be more comfortable. And although you made your analysis (good one), it is only based on 1 game. Ayers to his credit is definitely one of the better LBs in this draft & has a nice physical tool set. But I have to agree with Meats and Potatoes (no veggies for me :)…I still think he’s soft (I want a crazy MOFO) and I never really liked his tacking form – he should be lower (he won’t do anything hitting that high most of the time in the Big Boys’ League)…(yes it’s coachable)..but it is also a Boley spot. Motor is also debatable: I mean real motor, like getting beat or completely wiped out and still recovers and gets the goods…not where he’s on the other side of the field, everyone has to do that – and it’s expected. What’s not expected is the guy keeps hustling and runs the guy down. And oh yeah, he’s similar to Boley, we need more of a SAM (in terms of conventional – not Fuel’s version). My opinion…but overall a good write up. Thanks for a little more info on Ayers. I’m just not sold for 19.
Rather have a big ROAD GRADER…another one of those please… I’m hoping Wil Beatty proves more of his worth this year (if we have a year)…and would like to see a little more Petrus.
That's just Ridiculous!
plus the D will have another year under the same DC
that will help as well. It’s not like we don’t have some talent there. And if we don’t have this year (sigh…I hope not)… do they even get to still practice? meaning, even meetings? (which I highly doubt)…
That's just Ridiculous!
fair enough
He’s had better games than this one, and also worse games. Regardless, though, I’m still adamant that he’s not soft. On many of those plays, he’s getting blocked backwards and yet he’s the ONLY one making the tackle. His tackling form may not always be perfect, but he’s around the ball CONSTANTLY. That’s not being soft.
Also, he’s got plenty of aggression, but he plays smart. We don’t need a conventional SAM. I’m still a believer in that Fewell’s system, you need to have strong coverage skills. Run defense isn’t our problem. Having an athletic LB helps the defensive line pin their ears back, and allows the secondary to play a proper zone.
A Tampa-2 scheme is THE perfect scheme for an aggressive pass-rushing defense because the zone look forces the QB to try and find the open zone to pass in, which is difficult to do if you’ve got defenders in your face.
However, last year, the underneath zone would ALWAYS be open, and the QB knew that. So what did Antrel Rolle have to do? YOU ALL KNOW. He had to come up to shore up that underneath zone, which left KPhillips all by his lonesome in the deep zone, and that’s where we got killed.
Put Ayers in that zone, and its plug n play and forget about it. Antrel can go back and play the deep zone, and theoretically make the defense a helluva lot better.
Plus, the depth of 4-3 LBs in this draft SUCKS. We pass on Akeem Ayers, hoping to get Mason Foster or Bruce Carter. Guess what? The Detroit Lions, St.Louis Rams, Tennessee Titans and Tampa Bay Buccaneers have 4-3 LB as MASSIVE NEEDS. What do we do if they’re gone? The dropoff in talent after that is ridiculous, and no other prospect stands out as being even slightly better than the players we have on our roster right now anyway.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Whoa buddy!
I have no problem with you making a case for Ayers. However, I call BS on you assessment of Foster. He Sheds blocks much better than Ayers does, his instincts far surpass any I have seen from Ayers watch an Ayers and Foster tape and tell me who is around the ball more. The ONLY thing that Ayers has over Foster is pass coverage, Blitzing(not by much) and size, however, in Tackling, Diagnosing plays, Physicality, and Production, Foster is Ayers superior.
I said Foster has some troubling shedding blocks
I’ll agree with you that he’s better at it than Ayers, but the point I’m trying to make is that its not like Foster is perfect at it. Also, you have to remember that he played WILL, which means he faces fewer blocks, and the ones he does get is usually from the slot WR, as opposed to the bigger and stronger TE’s that Ayes has to contend with.
Tackling, yes Foster has better form. As far as diagnosing plays, I’m not sure how you can measure that, but I’m going to disagree 100%. How is a LB good at pass coverage when he can’t diagnose passing plays?
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
To counter argue
You can see from how fast they transition from playing pass to run and see how well they diagnose playse. also how they flow and find the holes in the run game. secondly Foster moves from SAM to WILL multiple times in a game so does Ayers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdjyWm-9d2s&feature=related
you will see a definite difference in how quick they get to the ball and how
I actually counted and there was no significant difference
between the time it took to diagnose plays. To make it a little more fair, though, I invite you to look at the Washington game vs Stanford, which there are similar opponents. While I agree that Foster is a more surer tackler, he gets fooled on a couple plays as well. Nothing tells me that Fosters’ instincts are better from either tape.
Is he a better run defender and tackler than Ayers? Sure. I wholeheartedly disagree that Foster is more physical than Ayers. Watch all of the tape available on youtube on both. Ayers flows to the ball just as much, and singlehandedly disrupts plays.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
Foster shedded blocks much better than Ayers and was more disruptive than ayers was against Standford. Also he was fooled once on the screen play and he made up for hit with the stop on the goal line QB roll out TE Toss back. Also Ayers only “disrupted plays” when he was a free coming off the line. your not gonna get alot of that in the NFL. Foster shedded blocks, broke down, and made solid tackles for little or no gain. also he blitzed more effectively than Ayers did against Standford.
.......
Foster was fooled on more plays than that screen one. And look at Ayers’ tape again, most of the time he disrupted plays, he was being blocked. Almost all of his run stops in the video came as he was being blocked. Look again at plays 3, 7, 8, 15.
Again, I agree with you, Foster is bettter at shedding blocks.
Also Ayers only "disrupted plays" when he was a free coming off the line. your not gonna get alot of that in the NFL…..also he blitzed more effectively than Ayers did against Standford.
C’mon man, you’re knocking Ayers for plays he makes when he’s unblocked…a massive amount of tackles made by Foster (including alot of his blitzes) were unblocked.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I am by no means
saying Ayers played a bad game, I’m just saying he didn’t impress me like Foster. also Foster was fooled only on the screen the only other possible times you could be talking about is when he stepped to maintain outside contain on forced the back inside on a couple plays. also Foster weaved his way through traffic most of the time (something Ayers reframes from by standing back and waiting for the RB to break ahead of his blockers). I will give you that Foster’s blitzes were untouched though.
I see your point. However. Your stupid.
touche
beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess. I’m writing a new fanpost on why Ayers fits better with the tampa 2 (or at least I think)…hahaha
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
he would be a good T2 player.
but I see Ayers as another Boley. Soft in the run but can cover.
I see your point. However. Your stupid.
Boley isn't soft against the run
He lacks the bulk to be effective taking on blocks from far bigger OL.
His problem last season was that Osi’s game is speed, so it left him uncovered and an easy target for a bigger blocking TE or a G.
Does that
Excuse poor technique, letting Lineman get into your body, Poor angles, not being aggressive taking on and shedding blockers?
I see your point. However. Your stupid.
Letting lineman get into your body
Cause the TEs and OL aren’t pro’s trying very hard to do just that
They thought Ray Lewis was done before Ngata arrived, all of a sudden without OL getting on top of him, and using his skills, he was very very effective again.
The better question is why neither he NOR Osi was sealing the edge.
Foster played all three LB positions
and would regularly switch OLB positions.
wilddre22: why does everyone bring up Vick like its a given that that’s what EVERY player will do and respond from a prison sentence.
andiamo708: I have no clue... like going to prison is like going to LSU or something….
Ed
I think you’re making the Cedric Jones push for this guy – need over talent/position of the draft.
I like this guy if we picked 8 in round 2.
I think we need a OT badly – not as bad as a good linebacker but the talent isn’t there quantity wise in the draft much less where we draft in the first round. I think we have to take best talent at our spot (hopefully not a DE) but more than likely it will be a OT or DT.
Please get Phil Simms in the Hall of Fame
By the time we get to our pick in the 2nd round, more than likely the LB talent
would only be ST fodder for us.
Not true for OL at all. There are quality OT’s and C’s to be had in the 2nd round onwards.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Great Post BBI
I really don’t think anyone could blame Reese for selecting Ayers if he’s available at 19, it makes sense.
Again, great post. Missing one thing though…

There she be.
Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Apr 9, 2011 12:07 AM EDT reply actions
And here we see the endangered species, the LBzez in its natural habitat...
stalking its prey
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice job BBI
You’re owning the recommended fanpost section.
If it’s between Ayers and Pouncey, I think you have to factor in need at that point, which would tip the scales to Ayers, although I’d be happy with either
Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden
Thanks Will
that’s the main reason why I’m pro Ayers. But yeah, I will not be upset if Mike Pouncey is the pick (and in all likelihood, I’m thinking that’s where JR is going to go)
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
We need a LB more then a Center?
Doubtful. At least there’s bodies to throw out there for the the LB spot
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
We're not bringing Bulluck back...
so….that leaves us with Sintim and Blackburn. Blackburn isn’t a natural SAM, he plays MIKE. Sintim has yet to actually prove something. Adrian Tracy, while talented, was a DE in college and a 6th round pick. You can’t possibly expect anything from him.
At center, we’ve got Koets, who’s expected to make a full recovery. O’Hara is scheduled to come back at the start of training camp. Progress is uncertain for Seubert, but he’s expected to be back at the start of training camp. Jim Cordle is another player that the Giants are very high on, and are grooming to be a back up from the practice squad, but again, like Tracy, you can’t expect anything from him.
At most, you have to say LB need = C need. I prefer to take an athlete at LB because he can also contribute on ST as well.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
scratch that
i’ve heard reports that we aren’t bringing Bulluck, Blackburn, or Wilkinson back. That leaves us with Dillard, Sintim, Tracy, Boley, and Goff at LB.
Yeah. I’d say the panic level for the LBzez is at a crescendo.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Not bringing Blackburn back?
Whered ya read that?
Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Apr 9, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
read it on yahoo's Giants "inside slant" or something like that
it was a WTF for me too, and idk whether to believe it, but I hope not
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
not sure losing those three makes anything a "panic" at LB
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
considering that
Sintim is coming off a torn ACL (which everyone forgets) and will likely not be up to full speed OR agility (remember Osi two seasons ago?). Plus, even when he was healthy (though he never got a fair opportunity to), he never really showed much, and was a 3-4 LB coming out of college.
Tracy is coming off a dislocated elbow. I got a dislocated elbow 2 years ago playing football myself, and trust me when I say that elbow is never the same. To dislocate your elbow, especially to the extent where he had to get surgery, meant he tore his UCL and RCL, the two primary ligaments that wrap around your elbow to hold it in place. They’ll never be the same and another hard it could tear them again. On top of that, he’s a 6th rounder and hasn’t played LB. He was a friggin’ DE in college.
Dillard suffered a hamstring injury, and hasn’t even shown anything on ST. Plus, he’s not a natural SAM, he’s a MIKE.
Goff is good, but unspectacular at MIKE.
Boley is good, but unspectacular at WILL.
So yeah, considering that we don’t even have anybody on our roster that’s even a fit for a SAM, I’d say its time to panic.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
"another hard HIT could tear them again" lol
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
considering we barely used the SAM last year
I’d consider it something to not even care about.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
We did use the SAM
the starter was Antrel Rolle.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea we need to be running a 4-3 to be effective
Not a 4-2-5. If we can get at least one strong LB it will allow Rolle and KP to actually play the 2 man safety set.
Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 5...
they were pretty effective last year
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
But it became less effective as it was used more
Better to have choices
against anemic offenses then yes
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
Cmon
you know that’s not true.
Between O’Hara, Koets, Seubert, one of them is going to be healthy. Not to mention, two of those guys went undrafted, and Koets was a 6th rounder
Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden
All coming off major injuries
so just like any single injured player, I wouldn’t expect them back at 100%. So unless we can combine them, I wouldn’t be inclined to talk about even their return as something to be counted on. And Koets was a 5th rounder
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
The wiki machine
Ross, Smith, Alford, DeOssie, Boss, Koets, Johnson, and Bradshaw (7th round compensatory pick)
Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden
Also I would like to compare our other LBs with Ayers in terms of size/speed
Boley – 223lbs/4.67
Sintim – 252lbs/4.65
Goff – 235lbs/4.65
Dillard – 240lbs/4.64
@ 260lbs/4.68 is the most impressive blend of size/speed we have. And his game tape shows he plays even faster than that. Only Sintim can match that speed/size, but Sintim doesn’t know how to cover.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 11:28 AM EDT reply actions
People's criticisms of Sintim are way overblown
Sintim should be at SAM and not WILL. It’s asinine to play him at WILL. The SAM LB helps in run defense, rushes the passer, and covers the TE. On occasion, he might cover slot WRs but that wouldn’t happen in our defense. The only thing that Sintim has to learn is covering the TE. Physically, he can do it well enough but he has to learn and understand the concepts and nuances of the position in Fewell’s scheme. He might never become a stalwart in coverage but that’s OK. No OLB can cover Witten or Cooley in man coverage without some help.
Walter Football
War Room Report
wilddre22: why does everyone bring up Vick like its a given that that’s what EVERY player will do and respond from a prison sentence.
andiamo708: I have no clue... like going to prison is like going to LSU or something….
^This is the type of in-depth analysis and eloquent arguments we need!
Red stripe, blue paint, them other teams scared but Big Blue ain't.
Yeah, but how many backflips can he do?
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Apr 9, 2011 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
ive always been on board with Ayers
He’s been my #1 PICK if available since day one..he is the best no questions asked LB this year and we can’t afford have teams like Indy run all over us or our safties blow coverage bcuz of play action! Is Ayers the answer? Possibly..more probable then later picks day 2..as for the oline this need can be taken care of in other rounds. I firmly believe in getting the best talent on the board. But when u have failed for years in free agency and with 2nd to 4th rd picks at a postion. You have to take a little risk and go against the grain alittle. Us ur happy running a 3 safety Def. Just my thoughts
by hit_hard on Apr 9, 2011 6:32 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
AA is a LB
so his measurables being comparable to JPP’s isn’t impressive, it’s actually the opposite.
Rex Ryan... I salute you!
JPP was slated to be an OLB and was a physical freak for his size/weight
So not sure what you’re saying.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
3-4 Defense
Whoever thought he could be a 4-3 LB should not have a job in the NFL. Most 3-4 OLBs are Defensive Ends.
so I still don’t know wtf you’re talking about.
Rex Ryan... I salute you!
Okay fine
Name Weight 40 time
Ayers 258 4.68
Mason Foster 245 4.70
KJ Wright 242 4.73
Ross Homan 240 4.65
Lawrence Wilson 229 4.56
Doug Hogue 237 4.61
Ayers has at least 15 lbs on every other 4-3 LB, and yet, the only significant improvement over his time Lawrence Wilson, who is 30 lbs less than Ayers.
Happy now?
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
3-4 OLBs still have a large responsibility when it comes to pass coverage
DE’s do not. That’s why you must be so much more agile to be a 3-4 OLB than a DE. The two are not equal in any way, aside from the shared responsibility to rush the passer.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll give you that he is the most athletic LB in this draft...
but that doesn’t impress me in the very least. Just because that doesn’t impress doesn’t mean I’m saying he sucks, but it just doesn’t impress me enough to consider him an “athletic freak,” for his position, as you do.
An “Athletic Freak” at LB is Patrick Willis. If you compared AA to Patrick Willis and not a DE/(34)LB… then I would be very impressed.
“Some guys are athletes, some guys are big, some guys are mean, he’s a football player.” – Former Panther Mike Minter, referring to Jon Beason.
This is how I view Akeem Ayers. He’s a football player.
Rex Ryan... I salute you!
amen my friend
By putting up all those numbers, I wanted to allay any concerns about his athleticism because some people used that as a reason not to take him.
and then I got a little carried away lol
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 10, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Kiwi says hi
Spags had him as a 4-3 OLB initially as well, he had a job and did pretty well here
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
because that was our scheme
We were a blitzing team, so we benefited from having another passrusher on the field.
Kiwi would’ve never been a 4-3 OLB on the Bears.
Rex Ryan... I salute you!
Kiwi was a 4-3 OLB last year for the NY Giants
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Apr 10, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but he played it as a standup DE
If that makes sense (Fewell basically let him play on the line outside of Osi, standing up)
I thought it was brilliant. Took Kiwi away from direct block from OT, his speed became more effective, and when teams tried to run that way he was still stout enough to seal the edge force the cutback. Very sad that he got hurt, it seemed to me that he had become a force out there, and the offense had no answers for him.
If he comes back it changes the LB equation completely
This is true
We dont actually need to get a LB that bad if Kiwi was out there.
Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 5...
AA is going to be a beast
He is going to be better than Lawrence Taylor (which would make him the GREATEST FOOTBALL PLAYER EVA!!!!).
Rex Ryan... I salute you!
Yay for strawmans!
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
by Drizzzy on Apr 9, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
what?
You don’t agree?
Rex Ryan... I salute you!
Nice work BBI, keep em coming
Although, I thought you were in med school or something? Not sure how you’re finding the time, but you are adding some serious value added to the blog.
You’re gonna catch some flack for JPP=DE and AA is not a DE, but I see your point. JPP=athlete (at least in most of our eyes) and therefore since AA’s measurables are similar to his he is therefore an athlete. They won’t go wrong in selecting him IMO, so you won’t be hearing booooos from me if he is their choice in couple weeks.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next."
JPP was an athlete
for a DE. ayers was quite average numbers for a LB. Martez Wilson is an athlete at LB.
see above
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Just saying
He’s not really an "athlete" at LB. also you put you compare there numbers because JPP was thought to be able to be an athletic 3-4 OLB. thats good and all but we need a 4-3 OLB :). just some nitpicking
I see your point. However. Your stupid.
Thanks Larry....haha just finished a massive exam so I've got a bit of free time on my hands
I know I was going to catch some flak but the point was, when I posted it, was to show that JPP was going to be a 3-4 OLB, which still has to have some coverage skills so I was showing similar stats.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
thank you, sir!
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 9, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Just saying
He’s not really an “athlete” at LB. also you put you compare there numbers because JPP was thought to be able to be an athletic 3-4 OLB. thats good and all but we need a 4-3 OLB :). just some nitpicking
I see your point. However. Your stupid.
Ayers sounds a lot like the Pats choice at 17
They need to get Mayo a running mate and Spikes is the stay at home run buster. AA will provide pass rush and covg for them.
Not sure why people think Pouncey is a better value. G/C can be addressed later, and he just doesn’t grade out like a Faneca or Hutchinson.
If they aren’t planning on paying Cofield, you could easily see a DT, especially if Liuget is there.
OK well
You could say “Better Value at almost every position except maybe CB and….thats it” If we miss Ayers we have Foster, Carter, Jones, etc.. we miss Pouncey we have Hudson, Wiz, Carpenter, etc… we mis Ingram there is Leshoure, Thomas, Carter, Jones, Etc.. Rudolph we have Stocker, Williams, Kendricks, etc… and so on so forth. CB is the biggest drop off. after Peterson, Prince, Smith, and Harris there is a little bit of a drop.
I see your point. However. Your stupid.
Yes!
It’s why I have such a hard time thinking Pouncey is the pick (or anyone else for that matter)
It looks to me that at 19 they will get a chance go draft a good but flawed player. Here’s what I mean
Pouncey – solid but the evals sound like he usually can outmuscle guys even with flawed technique, or clumsier footwork. I have no doubt he’ll start somewhere, but in NFL it’s tough to rely on brute strength, the strength gaps narrow from NCAA
Ayers – has the length and speed you like, but his body of work is sort of up and down. Is it because he played on a defense that had a ton of flaws so teams could game plan for him? Or is it that he’s one of those up and down guys that never get much better?
Jimmy Smith – anyone that doesn’t LOVE the physical pkg (he’s sorta an Asomugha clone) is kidding themselves. But when you have a family/posse problem and you’re not smart enuf to say damn this could cost me $10M I better fix it, that guy could be your next Plaxico, a ticking time bomb.
Carimi – plays with tons of power, but he could be far less than he seems against NFL DEs that have size and speed
Ok well
Pouncey- Seems most of his problem is technique and that is something that our Great OL coach can easily have corrected. However he does have great ability to wrap around on tosses, counters, and traps and be a effective second level blocker.
Ayers- I don’t know. I don’t get much “wow” from him. I have a hard time identifying why people think he is a first round pick. for all I know he could be LT playing on an elementary school defense.
Jimmy Smith- I would love this pick. he has the skill, he fills an area of growing need, and you don’t get many guys with his size/speed/skill ratio. The off the field issues are the only thing holding him back.
Carimi- RT. we play in the NFC. that means Speedy rushers coming off the edge, Ware, Orakpo, Peppers, Cole, Abraham, and more to come in the draft. IDL.
I see your point. However. Your stupid.
Re: Ayers
got to remember that he had a crap defense around him, with only Rahim Moore doing anything noteworthy, and he played offenses that included highly touted offensive prospects as Matt Barkley, Andrew Luck, LaMichael James, Shane Vereen, Daniel Thomas, Jordan Cameron, Stanley Havili, etc…..
Being around a poor defense means that the enemy offense can key in on you as a target to shut down. Despite that, Ayers was making plays.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 10, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
ah yes, that was mis-read by me
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 10, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
On Carimi
I tend to agree, but
A standout RT could be a great thing, and he plays with long arms and excellent hand strength, if he masters the punch and grab he just might be able to become a LT.
I could have tossed Castonzo out there too, things I like about him (like his superb technique) and things I worry about
Ayers is not really a pass rusher
that’s a negative on him. If anything he’s a 3-4 ILB sort of like Karlos Dansby, but much less athletic.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Scouting reports on Ayers are notoriously contradictory
I attribute it to his very very inconsistent performances
Depending on your taste and your focus Ayers will grade out as a 2nd half of the 1st round guy or a late 2nd rounder.
Because the Giants have been so mundane at developing LBz I worry that he’ll fail to improve on Giants, while in New England he might star.
The way I see Ayers in a pass rushing role
Is that he’s raw at it, but has good potential.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 10, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I like Ayers he sounds like a good kid with a ton of potl
But its hard to make an argument for anyone being the lockdown slam-dunk pick at 19this year
There are as many good things about Ayers as about the others that should be on the board. This years draft doesn’t have the dominant type guys (though someone might emerge as dominant). The value is on what the player can do and how they fit the team. Pouncey, Ayers, Castonzo all mesh nicely with Giants style, Carimi looks like a good fit too.
Jimmy Smith who is a prototype for Giants at CB has BIG baggage. (wouldn’t surprise me if he got picked early, some teams in more low key places will worry less about the posse)
I agree with this
there are no slam dunk picks. Ayers most certainly isn’t one. Neither is pouncey. or any OT…
the reasoning for this post and the other was because I would like Ayers to be the pick, and because I felt people were writing him off way too easily because of a poor combine.
Any of the picks you mentioned and I’d be happy come draft day. Just a little happier if it were ayers tho haha
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 10, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I tend to agree
But I suspect Jimmy Smith would make me happiest. I’m not certain Smith and Ayers both make it to 19.
One thing is certain 18 teams have to pick before our pick is called. Without FA you can expect the mocks and experts to be a lot less accurate than usual.
Valid and troubling point, sir
"Richard, who's your favorite little rascal? Is it Alfalfa?... Or is it SPANKY?... Sinner. :-)
I knew nothing Ayers prior to this post...
I have heard his name tossed around and after reading this post I was all in…until I watched the tape on the guy. Gotta say that I am not impressed at all after watching the link. I hope that was a bad game for him or I don’t know why we would even consider this pick. I saw a guy getting pushed around a lot, making arm tackles and not shedding blocks enough to get into the backfield to make plays. I’m all for an OL in round 1 now…or Ingram but I doubt he is still there.
whaat
Foster sucks compared to Ayers when it comes to pass coverage, and also has some trouble shedding blocks as well. Plus Foster is shorter and lighter than Ayers, is nowhere near as smooth, and ran a slower 40 then Akeem. Ayers’ "instincts" are on par with Foster. I don’t understand why people think Mason Foster = Akeem Ayers.
Mason Foster has absolutely superior instincts to akeem ayers and its not even close. Foster might be lighter and shorter than Ayers (which doesn’t mean crap because foster has excellent size for a linebacker anyway) he certainly has better upper body strength than Ayers. Both Foster and Ayers are inconsistent shedding blocks but Foster at least can actually slip past blocks using his hands excellently. Mason Foster is excellent in zone coverage, he just isn’t a great enough of an athlete to cover Tight ends 1-on-1, but that doesn’t matter anyway since he will be a WLB in the NFL. It’s not like akeem ayers has been battle tested covering tight ends a lot at UCLA anyway.
In regards to instincts...please read my other post
They have different types of “instincts” because they are two different types of players. Foster makes pre-snap reads and is very good at it. Much better than Ayers. That leads to him being around the ball all the time. The negative to that is him getting beat on misdirections, play action, and screens, hence him being poorer (note: I did not say bad, this is relative) than Ayers.
Ayers is a read and react type player. He has the ability to diagnose plays as they happen and react to them quickly. That gives you different result, as opposed to getting a pre-snap read. The positives for this are that he doesn’t overpursue and allows him to maintain zone discipline. The negative is that he won’t be around the ball all the time.
I personally prefer a read and react player, especially with the athleticism that Ayers has, in zone coverage in the tampa-2. Doesn’t mean that Foster can’t be successful in it, I just think it’ll come more naturally to Ayers.
he certainly has better upper body strength than Ayers
They both put up the same amount of reps on the bench press. This despite Ayers’ arm length being a full two inches longer. Ayers’ build also is an advantage over Foster’s, as the fact that he’s heavier will allow him to get stronger faster. His problem with shedding blocks is his technique, not strength. But that’s easily coachable.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 10, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Hm, I see what you mean
I don’t think what Ayers does (filling gaps and maintaining gap discipline) can be defined as instincts though. Having “insitncts” when read and reacting is reacting to the flow of plays and consistently beating the blocker to the hole at the line of scrimmage. You see that with Foster a LOT on film than you do with ayers. Ayers in my opinion is one second slow reacting to plays thus he is usually always taking on blockers instead of getting to the play before the blocker gets his hand on him.
Yes, you are right. Foster is more aggressive than Ayers which leads to him getting beat if he guesses wrong but me personally I prefer an aggressive player than a conservative lb like a Michael Boley. The aggressive linebackers are just more disruptive. That’s what makes Foster so special, some linebackers are overly aggressive and give up big plays whereas Foster always guesses right. That’s what makes him so instinctive.
What ayers does to me isn’t defined as being instinctive. To me, its defined as being tentative, not very aggressive, and questionable if he will become a disruptive playmaker against the run in the nfl. the giants don’t need someone who can just fill gaps and play it safe, they need playmakers against the run who is always around the ball and consistently make stops.
In regards to Ayers upper body strength, it just seems a bit lanky and lean to me. But yes, he can improve his technique and hand use too.
I think you're correct in your assessment of Ayers vs Foster
in how they play. Although I’d substitute “tenative” with “smart” :)
I’d also like to think that Ayers is pretty disruptive too. If you look at some of the plays, Ayers is being blocked, but still somehow manages to make the play. He also has the bulk and lateral speed to make the RB adjust his route, thereby minimizing loss.
Also gap control is VERY IMPORTANT, as a Tampa-2 LB, which I address in my other post.
I do have to disagree with the statement that Foster always guess correctly. I’ve seen him get fooled much more than Ayers with screen passes, play action, and misdirections. There’s game tape and scouting reports to back this assertion up as well.
Let me give you their college totals as well:
Akeem Ayers: 177 tackles (123 solo), 29.5 TFL, 14 sacks, 6 INTs (3 for TD), 7 FF
Mason Foster: 372 tackles ( 241 solo) 39 TFL, 11 sacks, 4 INTs, 6 FF
Yes, people will look at the tackles and say, BBI you are ridiculously dumb, Foster’s production crushes Ayers. Ayers is a 7th rounder at best.
Got to remember a few things though:
Foster was a 4 year starter. Ayers was only a 2 year starter in a 3 year college career. Ayers’ production was rising exponentially as the years progressed, and there’s no reason to doubt that that production wasn’t going continue its steep rise.
Ayers already has more forced fumbles, sacks, and INTs despite playing one less year.
Also, a great indicator of performance is the ratio of solo tackles to tackles. 65% of Mason Foster’s tackles were solo tackles. Ayers’ percentage was just about 70%. Alot of the tape that I saw of Foster’s was him getting a hit on the ball carrier as the ball carrier was being slowed down by a hit by someone else, thus it not counting as a solo tackle. Ayers made a lot of these plays by himself, thereby showing a high percentage of solo tackles.
My final point is: Ayers has the advantage of better pass coverage, pass rushing ability, and upside over Foster’s advantage of run defense and aggressiveness. Ayers’ qualities are what GM’s value more, and that’s why he’ll be a 1st round pick come draft day and Foster will not.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 11, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok but.
with a Nearly 200 Tackle lead over Ayers, for Fosters Solo percentage to be different by only 5% is incredible. and the way there stats look at sacks and interceptions I think they are closer in those departments than most think, if you can find me a passes defensed stat that could really help. Next Foster was a starter from Freshman year and Ayers has been as you said a steady riser, but so has Foster, his tackle numbers have increased every year so who is to say Foster isn’t steadily improving. Also if you continued Ayers Career to an extra year he would still be atleast 80 tackles below Foster.
Also RBs in the NFL won’t get passed the LOS untouched many times so your point of Foster tacking down slowed RBs does’t say much because once he gets his hands on you your going down.
I see your point. However. Your stupid.
hmm
So these are aggregate stats, and Foster basically has a 1.5 year lead on Ayers. Sure, Ayers will have less tackles. But he’s already beaten Foster in FF, INTs, TDs, Sacks, and if you give him that extra year, he’ll beat Foster in TFL too. If FFs, INTs, TDs, Sacks, and TFLs aren’t impact plays, than I quit.
Also RBs in the NFL won’t get passed the LOS untouched many times
Given that everyone states that Foster’s big, massive, huge advantage over Ayers is the tackling and run defense, couldn’t that statement work AGAINST foster? I could argue that that brings down the importance of run defense once you get to the NFL. :)
My point is, NFL GMs view shizz this way: You just need to prove that you were productive in college. A massive amount of production in college is nice, but that’s not going to provide you with a huge boost. Athleticism is. GMs will ALWAYS look for athleticism, and that alone can bring you up a couple rounds. Don’t believe me, look at JPP. or this year, Nick Fairley or Da’Quan Bowers. They only had 1 year of great production.
No one can say that Ayers didn’t have production in college. Almost 200 tackles, 14 sacks, 29.5 TFL, 6 INTs, 7 FF in 2.5 years essentially. He also has the size and athleticism to have a huge advantage in upside over Foster. That’s why everyone is calling him a 1st rounder and Foster a 2nd rounder.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 11, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh and the passes defensed stats you wanted
13 for Ayers
11 for Foster
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 11, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems like we agree with eachother, just disagree in what is a fit for the giants
I agree that ayers is very disruptive, but in the ways in which he was disruptive I doubt will translate into fewell’s system. The guy has an explosive first step when he has his hand in the dirt and constantly destroys right tackles (i’ve scouted a few of his games), get pressure, and flash the ability to disrupt plays. But when he is lined up as a DE against the run, he struggles to get off blocks. Combine that with ayers size, I can’t really see him being used on the ball in the nfl as much as he did at UCLA.
When ayers isn’t lined up as a DE and isn’t blitzing, and is playing as a LB off the ball, he isn’t very disruptive. His tentative or “smart” style is a similar style in which Michael Boley plays. That style is conservative (or smart) and that doesn’t translate to being a playmaker against the run. Conservative/tentative does not = disruptive. All he does is maintain gap integrity and fill gaps. The giants need someone who can read their keys, beat blockers to the hole, shoot gaps, and diagnose offensive plays in the backfield. Not that Ayers can’t do some of these things, but Mason Foster’s style is so much more disruptive and the production numbers are a testament of that
I think Ayers would be better off in a system where his talented ability to get after the passer when he is playing on the ball at the line. Its rare to see someone with his size to be as fast as he is and have the fluid hips that he does to drop into coverage. He would fit maybe in a system that will allow him to maximize his talents and play in a JOKER role or something
You hit it the nail on the head
by describing Ayers’ talents as well as Foster’s. You’re also right in that we disagree on which we need more haha. I think a Tampa-2 more heavily relies on a gap disciplined LB that won’t overpursue, and have the lateral agility and pass coverage to lock down a zone.
I think you get with Foster what you already have in Goff. A sure tackling, run defending machine that gets in the backfield. I think we have plenty of those already, hence such a high run def rating, when we combine goff with the Dline, that Ayers is exactly what we need in the LB corps.
We’ve been lacking strong pass coverage in the 2nd level, and that’s why he should be the pick IMO
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 11, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Just Say Yes
Details of the operations of an interstate dog fighting ring were revealed, with some portions involving drugs and gambling. Gruesome details involving abuse, torture and execution of under-performing dogs ... He admitted to being involved in the destruction of 6–8 dogs, by hanging or drowning...
Aside
If anything was easily coachable, you’ld see a lot fewer busted picks in rounds 1-3 At least 1/2 these folks are drafted with the idea that you can eliminate that one flaw and unleash the potential.
Last year McClain was a slam dunk can’t miss MLB. But now he seems like a big mistake. It’s not unusual and it isn’t just the Raiders. Remember Ed is listing the top 10 draft busts, and all of em were made by George Young and Ernie Accorsi, 2 above average GMs
that's true
at the same time tho, there really is no such thing as a no-flaws prospect. It the ones that actually can learn that fix that flaw and become great.
I’d say half of it is coaching and half of it is player work ethic.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 11, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Work ethic
Is the main reason why guys bust in the first 2 rounds. Its rare guys arent physically talented enough that early. Its why im turned off by Martez Wilson now. The fact that he was disinterested and just going through the pro day half ass isnt a good sign. It makes me wonder if he can handle watching the tape a MLB needs 2.
agreed
Mason Foster and Akeem Ayers both have strong work ethic, so that shouldn’t be a problem for either.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 11, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Google "akeem ayers vs mason foster"
and this fanpost is the 3rd thing that shows up. Niiiice.
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 11, 2011 4:20 PM EDT reply actions
yeah those guys are basically having the same discussion
Final Dream Draft
1) Akeem Ayers, OLB
2) Marvin Austin, DT
3) Jake Kirkpatrick, OC
4) Chimdi Chekwa, CB
6) Henry Hynoski, FB
6) Jarriel King, OT
6) Josh Bynes, ILB
7) Ricardo Lockette, KR/PR
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 11, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Couple more
good post and wewill be the cornerstone for Ayers vs. Foster.
I see your point. However. Your stupid.
number 2 for me
good work
Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden

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