NY Giants' Best and Worst Draft Picks Since 2000
CBS Sports had a feature detailing the best (they called it top) and worst draft picks of each team in each round since 2000. Let's take a look at the choices.
Best Picks:
First: Eli Manning, QB (No. 1 overall, 2004) Manning was technically picked by the Chargers who cut a deal to send the top pick to the Giants. Since then Manning has thrown 156 TDs and was named Super Bowl XLII MVP.
Second: Osi Umenyiora, DE (No. 56 overall, 2003) The London-born Umenyiora didn’t get much attention at Troy University, but now has 60 sacks over seven NFL seasons. He edges RG Chris Snee (2004), CB Corey Webster (2005), WR Steve Smith (2007) and CB Terrell Thomas (2008) as the top second-round pick.
Third: Justin Tuck, DE (No. 74 overall, 2005) Tuck has 40.5 sacks over six NFL seasons and was a critical member of the Super Bowl XLII-winning team. He’s also a defensive captain with the ability to play end or tackle.
Fourth: Brandon Jacobs , RB (110 overall, 2005) The Giants took a risk on a 260-pound back who played at three colleges in three years, but the payoff has been undeniable. Jacobs has amassed 4,278 yards in six seasons and has a career average of 4.6 YPC. Jacobs also has 49 rushing TDs and three receiving TDs.
Fifth: David Diehl, LT/LG (160th overall in 2003) After playing tackle at Illinois, Diehl converted to guard with the Giants before ultimately moving back to left tackle. Diehl defended QB Eli Manning's blindside as the Giants went on to win Super Bowl XLII and he was named to the 2009 Pro Bowl.
Sixth: Dhani Jones, LB (177 overall, 2000) Jones didn’t play until his second season and didn’t start until his third, but ultimately made 202 tackles for the Giants between 2002 and 2003. He went on to sign with the Eagles and Bengals.
Seventh: Ahmad Bradshaw, RB (250 overall, 2007) Bradshaw rushed for 1,235 yards and eight TDs in 2010 which pushed his four-year total to 2,558 yards and 17 TDs. He has had some fumbling issues (15 career fumbles), but played through severe foot and ankle pain to make 16 appearances last year.
Worst Picks:
First: William Joseph, DT (No. 25 overall, 2003) Joseph began his career with a holdout and finished it with seven sacks in five seasons with the Giants. Injuries and conditioning ultimately cost Joseph, who had been a standout at the University of Miami.
Second: Clint Sintim LB (No. 45 overall, 2009) In his first two seasons, he was beat out for the starting strongside job by veterans LB Danny Clark and LB Keith Bulluck. Failing to play much on defense, Sintim didn’t make much of an impact on special teams and ended 2010 on the IR (knee).
Third: Jeff Hatch, OT (No. 78 overall, 2002) Hatch, a Penn alum, started four games in his second season but never found his way back on the field. He narrowly edges WR Ron Dixon (2000), a Lambuth alum.
Fourth: Cedric Scott, DE (114 overall, 2001) Scott had six combined tackles over three NFL seasons and has since made a living as a DT for the Edmonton Eskimos of the CFL.
Fifth: Rhett Bomar, QB (151 overall, 2009) Bomar was a high school sensation when he signed to play at Oklahoma, but a no-show job cost him his scholarship and he ended his collegiate career at Sam Houston State. Bomar struggled to get off the practice squad for two seasons, making only brief appearances on the active roster.
Sixth: Andre’ Woodson, QB (199 overall, 2008) Woodson never completed an NFL pass, but made news in 2009 when the Giants cut him in training camp and he immediately signed with Washington--New York’s Week 1 opponent. Then Redskins coach Jim Zorn denied signing Woodson to gain intelligence on the Giants.
Seventh: Stoney Woodson, CB (238 overall, 2009) Woodson was injured in training camp and was given an injury settlement before the 2009 season.
My Reaction:
The biggest thing is whether we should have traded away so many picks for Eli when Phillip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger were there. I don't believe Rivers would've done as well in NY as he has done in San Diego. While I don't regret the pick, I think Roethlisberger would have been fine on the Giants.
A few picks after William Joseph, Nnamdi Asomugha went off the board to the Raiders. Sigh.
Ron Dayne was also a very bad first-round pick in 2000. In 1999, the Giants averaged fewer than 100 yards per game over a season for the first time since 1953. They felt that a big, power running back was exactly what they needed. I remember Fassel patting himself on the back for the pick. "This may be one of the best picks we've ever made." If you think about it, Big Ten running backs haven't been kind to the Giants.
I don't know how you can call Clint Sintim the worst 2nd-round pick since 2000. Let's see him in the same defense two years in a row before we label him as anything. What about Sinorice Moss? He should be the guy.
Jacobs has done very well at times and been OK at other times. Based off of last year's performance, you could make a strong case for Barry Cofield as the best 4th-round pick. I was never that impressed with him but he's been a solid starter since he was a rookie and he had a stellar 2010 season.
So what do you guys think?
FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.
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CBS has no clue.
Sintim is not the worst 2nd round pick. Even if he’s a bust, which its waaaaaaaaaay to early to be talking about that, Sinorice Moss and Tim Carter were horrible and their careers are already shot.
5th round? Bomar hasn’t gotten a shot yet. All joking aside the dude does have talent to play QB. At worst he’ll be a career backup and that always has value, ask Jim Sorgi.
John Markham, K Penn State in 2001. Jonathon Carter WR 2001. I mean if they’re going back to 2000, why not just take 25 seconds and use google to find it?
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
How you gonna leave Barry of the Best list and put Dhani on?
What about Moss, I think he belongs on that list before you put Sintum who I agree has been a disapointment so far but two years is a little early to label him a bust. Don’t forget Webster took till the end of his third year to show he could play.
by Late for Dinner on Mar 19, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Cofield was a 4th rounder
tho he’s started every game (or close to it), I guess yea he should have a case over Jacobs in that 4th round. Barry’s chronically underrated and I forgot to think of him vs. Jake for that best 4th round spot.
Tho of course Jacobs can be an absolute beast when Gilbride remembers he’s 6"4 265lbs and he should be running up the gut.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I thought Barry should be on instead of Dhani not Brandon
Dhani didn’t really turn into anything untill after he left the Giants, he was more of a depth player when he was here. Barry pretty much started every game since his rookie year and was a part of a Giants Super Bowl team.
by Late for Dinner on Mar 21, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
but you have to bear in mind that it's "round" specific
so Barry could not displace Dhani on that list….
he could displace Brandon though….b/c they were both 4th rounders.
FIX IT
brandon is better and less replacable than barry. even tho i do love big barry its tru
Dear FOX... Fire Aikman
NO Oline in the first!!!!!!!!!
I wrote this sig. So if Chris Broussard says he did. he's lying. infact if Chris Broussard says he wrote any store he's lying
WINNING! Tigerblood
All NY All The Time (Giants,Knicks,Yankees,Rangers,RU)
*Note to all eagles fans*
Your team has never won a SB.
by 56THE REAL LT on Mar 21, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
really not the point I was making 56....
was just explaining to Late that it’s “round” specific
FIX IT
Knicks fans
There’s no getting through to them.
wilddre22: why does everyone bring up Vick like its a given that that’s what EVERY player will do and respond from a prison sentence.
andiamo708: I have no clue... like going to prison is like going to LSU or something….
you Bulls fans and your wagons
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
+1
Dear FOX... Fire Aikman
NO Oline in the first!!!!!!!!!
I wrote this sig. So if Chris Broussard says he did. he's lying. infact if Chris Broussard says he wrote any store he's lying
WINNING! Tigerblood
All NY All The Time (Giants,Knicks,Yankees,Rangers,RU)
*Note to all eagles fans*
Your team has never won a SB.
by 56THE REAL LT on Mar 21, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I could tell you what I think about that but I'll wait until
“next season.”
wilddre22: why does everyone bring up Vick like its a given that that’s what EVERY player will do and respond from a prison sentence.
andiamo708: I have no clue... like going to prison is like going to LSU or something….
no doubt
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Mar 21, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
ok
Dear FOX... Fire Aikman
NO Oline in the first!!!!!!!!!
I wrote this sig. So if Chris Broussard says he did. he's lying. infact if Chris Broussard says he wrote any store he's lying
WINNING! Tigerblood
All NY All The Time (Giants,Knicks,Yankees,Rangers,RU)
*Note to all eagles fans*
Your team has never won a SB.
by 56THE REAL LT on Mar 21, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Got it
My main point is Dhani Jones was not really a good player for the Giants, he did pan out to have a pretty good NFL career but I would not consider him a top Giants pick, How about David Tyree (6th rounder) instead, since he will go down as a true Giant, Dhani is just a guy the Giants drafted.
by Late for Dinner on Mar 22, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah...
considering what Tyree accomplished on ST as well he should definitely be given a lot of consideration for that spot.
hopefully in 4-5 years we’re looking back and having to considering Koets and A. Tracy as well.
FIX IT
Cool find Ghost
Snee over Osi in my opinion. Osi’s arguably top ten at his position, while Snee is arguably the best.
Agree with you regarding the Eli situation, he and Ben are both proven winners.
Agree about putting Moss ahead of Sintim. Moss is done. Sintim still has work to do.
Bomar? Lame…
Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Mar 18, 2011 7:34 PM EDT reply actions
The 2 Woodson kids we took a flyer on...
so I don’t see how they should be considered the worst picks in a decade. So was Bomar. Moss being a 2nd Rounder deserves to be on this list. I’d throw Tim Carter on there too, he was a 2nd Rounder. What about Roderick Babers? And Aaron Ross hasn’t lived up to a 1st Round Pick either.
Sintim and Beatty still have some time to get it together, but they better do it soon or you can slap their name on this list too. 2nd Round picks must play at a high level if you are going to succeed in a salary cap league.
DWTDD
aaron ross
has not lived up to first round pick but he hasnt been bad either. He has been a solid guy on our defense.
by The Blood of Eli on Mar 23, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah they missed the boat on the worst 2nd round pick
Moss earned that award a couple of years ago.
The NFL and NFLPA? They can kiss my ass, OK? They can line up and kiss my ass.
Second: Clint Sintim LB (No. 45 overall, 2009) In his first two seasons, he was beat out for the starting strongside job by veterans LB Danny Clark and LB Keith Bulluck. Failing to play much on defense, Sintim didn’t make much of an impact on special teams and ended 2010 on the IR (knee).
too early to sink that boat.
Fifth: Rhett Bomar, QB (151 overall, 2009) Bomar was a high school sensation when he signed to play at Oklahoma, but a no-show job cost him his scholarship and he ended his collegiate career at Sam Houston State. Bomar struggled to get off the practice squad for two seasons, making only brief appearances on the active roster.
how can one of the best players in this league be considered a bad pick?
A few picks after William Joseph, Nnamdi Asomugha went off the board to the Raiders. Sigh.
will we ever live this down? also who was the gm then?
Dear FOX... Fire Aikman
NO Oline in the first!!!!!!!!!
I wrote this sig. So if Chris Broussard says he did. he's lying. infact if Chris Broussard says he wrote any store he's lying
WINNING! Tigerblood
All NY All The Time (Giants,Knicks,Yankees,Rangers,RU)
*Note to all eagles fans*
Your team has never won a SB.
also:
The biggest thing is whether we should have traded away so many picks for Eli when Phillip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger were there. I don’t believe Rivers would’ve done as well in NY as he has done in San Diego. While I don’t regret the pick, I think Roethlisberger would have been fine on the Giants.
when its all said and done, and there carreers are over. you won’t doubt this move. eli is the better “QB”. there is no debate for that
Dear FOX... Fire Aikman
NO Oline in the first!!!!!!!!!
I wrote this sig. So if Chris Broussard says he did. he's lying. infact if Chris Broussard says he wrote any store he's lying
WINNING! Tigerblood
All NY All The Time (Giants,Knicks,Yankees,Rangers,RU)
*Note to all eagles fans*
Your team has never won a SB.
by 56THE REAL LT on Mar 18, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed Moss was so far has looked like a worse pick (by a lot)
but I have no problem with them picking Sintim because for me it was the more disappointing pick. not the more damaging, just disappointing.
that pick was the start of something I’ve seen plenty of people mention around this site: picking guys who don’t fit what we do. reese has been too willing to do that the last few years.
I really hope Sintim turns into a useful player for the Giants, but I’ve never thought it would happen. Obviously I still hold some anger with that pick haha
I could nitpick a bunch here...trust me....but 2 glarring issues stand out right away:
Snee not being on the 1st list
and Moss not being on the 2nd list
FIX IT
maybe Snee over Osi is not "glarring"
but I would put Chris over Osi….and than rank the other guys pretty much as they were listed:
Snee, Osi, Cweb, SS, TT….in that order.
FIX IT
yea. as uch as i love osi. (and i raelly like osi) snee has been consistenly the best RG in the NFL for years
Dear FOX... Fire Aikman
NO Oline in the first!!!!!!!!!
I wrote this sig. So if Chris Broussard says he did. he's lying. infact if Chris Broussard says he wrote any store he's lying
WINNING! Tigerblood
All NY All The Time (Giants,Knicks,Yankees,Rangers,RU)
*Note to all eagles fans*
Your team has never won a SB.
by 56THE REAL LT on Mar 19, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
agree on basically every comment here
Moss was the worst 2nd round pick (and I, admittedly, did backflips when they selected him. I still have back problems stemming from my ill-advised JPP impersonation).
Snee over Osi is fair.
Don’t understand Bomar as well as the Woodsons.They’re not pro-bowlers, but they’re irrelevant enough not to be mentioned in this article. Seems like the writer was getting dangerously close to the deadline, and started grabbing names out of hats. Seriously, Stony Woodson? who cares.
agrreed good stuff
The big arguement seems to be osi or snee and its such a close race u could agrue either way. Snee being consistant and I believe great guards are always underrated. For good reason tackles normally have the spotlight on the oline. Keeping the 2009 reason out of it, bcuz the whole D was a joke. Osi has been a beast. In my option he has 2 kinds of seasons great or amazing! Not to mention the guy had lost his starting job to kiwi. Then when kiwi goes down he has a forced fumble record breaking season..but like I said u could agrue either side and wouldn’t be wrong.
by hit_hard on Mar 19, 2011 11:08 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Poor article
Not by you, but by CBS. Moss should be on it, Sintim most likely will end up on it, though we are all hoping he doesn’t.
Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 5...
Agreeable
But I sure wished the team could have back that 2nd. rounder on Moss in ’06!Considering he was the third WR taken that year, before Greg Jennings, Brandon Marshall, and of course Marques Colsten in 7th round.
Rhett Bomar is the worst 5th round pick
because he should have went in the 1st
by #56 4life on Mar 21, 2011 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Look at this in a Reese v. Accorsi light
Reese has only 1 of the seven on the best list. Bradshaw in the seventh round. On the flip Reese has a whopping 4 of 7 on the worst list. Pretty rough showing for lord Reese.
Don't be absurd
Acorsi was the GM from 1998 to 2006. He drafted William Joseph, Ron Dayne, and Sinorice Moss. That’s two first-round picks and one second-round pick. Picking Bomar in the fifth, A. Woodson in the sixth, and S. Woodson in the seventh hardly compare.
wilddre22: why does everyone bring up Vick like its a given that that’s what EVERY player will do and respond from a prison sentence.
andiamo708: I have no clue... like going to prison is like going to LSU or something….
by GhostDini on Mar 21, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How I've missed thee...
Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Mar 21, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
P.S.
Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Mar 21, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
P.S.
Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Mar 21, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
one a the few double posts that can't possibly fail
Dear FOX... Fire Aikman
NO Oline in the first!!!!!!!!!
I wrote this sig. So if Chris Broussard says he did. he's lying. infact if Chris Broussard says he wrote any store he's lying
WINNING! Tigerblood
All NY All The Time (Giants,Knicks,Yankees,Rangers,RU)
*Note to all eagles fans*
Your team has never won a SB.
by 56THE REAL LT on Mar 22, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
PPS
JPP
Games Started: 0
Tackles: 30
Sacks: 4.5 (4 of which came in two games against bad teams playing backup OL Jaguars and Skins)
Pretty pedestrian (close to Tollefson’s stat line and he was out with injury for three games)
Linval Joseph
Games played: 6
Started: 0
Tackles: 8
Sacks: 0
Pretty pathetic
Hmm...

Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Mar 22, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
You can post them all
there are only 28 more
Gladly
I’m certainly interested in whether or not you can come back with 28 equally witty retorts.

Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Mar 22, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough

Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Mar 23, 2011 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Look at this one...

Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Mar 23, 2011 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
but he's JUST standing there! He's not even doing anything!!
and he is so dumb he doesn’t even know up from down!
we'll all rec'd
the shit outta it…
and 777 (no shots fired) can be like “but he’s JUST standing there!! He’s not even doing anything!!!”
FIX IT
Of course
After all, all draft picks are only as good as their first year. Maybe Linval should retire.
By the way, I like it how you posted the number of games that Linval played but not the number of games that JPP played. It’s relevant for one player but not for the other.
Also, if you dismiss JPP’s sack numbers, then why not Osi’s?.
Breakdown of Osi’s Sacks
3 sacks against Chicago: One of the worst O-lines in football
3 sacks against Washington: Faced a rookie
1 sack against Carolina: Faced a backup
2 sacks against Houston: Faced a backup
2 sacks against Detroit: Ask Lions fans how bad Jeff Backus is
0.5 sack against Minnesota: Faced 2010 Pro Bowler
wilddre22: why does everyone bring up Vick like its a given that that’s what EVERY player will do and respond from a prison sentence.
andiamo708: I have no clue... like going to prison is like going to LSU or something….
Hmm.. where did I say any such thing about only the first year?
Now if someone puts up a picture of a guy making a tackle like it somehow validates the pick or Reese in general, it’s worthwhile to take a look at the fact that said picture is one of only 30 such tackles for the year. You can be impressed by that, but I’m not.
I posted Linval’s games played because it was showing even lower production. At least dressing for the games is sort of a bare minimum if not injured.
Maybe because Osi had 7 more sacks…
You're all over the map
You list the stats of rookies and say that their numbers are “pedestrian” and “pathetic,” respectively. The problem with your point is that JPP was tied for 4th in sacks out of all rookies while not even getting the same amount of snaps as the three players ahead of him. Oh, and none of those players were on teams that made the playoffs either.
You dismiss JPP’s numbers because they were against bad teams and backups. When I list Osi’s numbers, who also feasted on bad players and backups, you say he had more sacks. Well, he started so he should have more sacks.
As for Linval, it was hard to get on the field when Cofield was having the best season of his career.
wilddre22: why does everyone bring up Vick like its a given that that’s what EVERY player will do and respond from a prison sentence.
andiamo708: I have no clue... like going to prison is like going to LSU or something….
Did we make the playoffs?
I missed that version of reality.
Other players getting more snaps would come down to either the player doing more to earn snaps or the other teams GM drafting with some concept of team need, or really a combination of.
I point out that all but 0.5 of JPP’s sacks come in just two games against weak opponents, which means he didn’t have much production over the entirety of the season. Osi at least made an appearance on the stat sheet in more games.
As for Linval, he didn’t even dress let alone get on the field. He didn’t need to be better than Coefield. He needed to at a minimum be better than Rocky Bernard.
you know...
you two are more alike than you are different….
and i’ll apologize now for that comment, in case i crossed any lines b/c i’m drunk and actin’ reckless
FIX IT
Not even close
wilddre22: why does everyone bring up Vick like its a given that that’s what EVERY player will do and respond from a prison sentence.
andiamo708: I have no clue... like going to prison is like going to LSU or something….
You don't get it
You talk about stats but the other rookies who had better stats didn’t help their teams make the playoffs. So what did those better stats do? Does it guarantee future success for these players? No. Does it mean they won’t have to prove themselves again next year? No. All it did was make irrational fans feel good about the picks during the off-season.
It’s as if this is your first exposure to a Coughlin-coached team. You make it sound as if he would’ve let a rookie start immediately because they “earned snaps”. Did Osi earn more snaps in 2009 when he was coming off an injury and then was benched later in the season? Did Diehl earn snaps after he came back from an injury last year and then promptly gave up the first sack that the team had given up in 12 weeks? Did Bradshaw earn more carries than Jacobs when he kept fumbling the ball and averaged fewer than 4.0 YPC in seven of the last nine games? The answer is a resounding no. Don’t talk to me about earning more snaps.
All of our DTs had good seasons. That includes Bernard. While you want drafted players who fill needs and contribute in a major way immediately, there is also BPA and building depth.
wilddre22: why does everyone bring up Vick like its a given that that’s what EVERY player will do and respond from a prison sentence.
andiamo708: I have no clue... like going to prison is like going to LSU or something….
Don't feed me Coughlin won't play rookies
Reese’s original claim to fame was the amount of impact that we got out of the 2007 class in their rookie year (and he deserves credit for that). Somewhere along the line though we went from having a guy we praise for bringing in players who can contribute immediately to help a team to the SB to having a guy where the cliche “wait three years to judge a draft” has to be bantered about every time we discuss draft picks ability to help this team, and consequently we are not even a playoff team. If some start slow and make an impact later great, but his isn’t college ball. We can’t carry a complete redshirt roster.
2007
Boss played because Shockey was on IR. Bradshaw played because Ward was on IR. Smith played because Moss, who was picked the year before by Accorsi, did very little with his opportunities. Ross played because Dockery was slowed by a hip injury.
Which players could Linval had replaced this season? And JPP? Beatty could’ve replaced Diehl but did they allow it? Diehl was getting help for most of the season because he could no longer do his job on his own. Why not give Beatty help while he gained some experience at LT? He’s only supposed to be the LT for the next decade. Bradshaw was doing nothing for most of the 2nd half of the season. He could barely average 3.0 YPC and was fumbling a lot. Did Jacobs get more carries? No. Instead we heard Coughlin bemoan AFTER the season that Jacobs should have gotten more carries. Where was Coughlin? Was he not around on game day? Why wasn’t Ware given more carries even though Coughlin said to the media that he would?
wilddre22: why does everyone bring up Vick like its a given that that’s what EVERY player will do and respond from a prison sentence.
andiamo708: I have no clue... like going to prison is like going to LSU or something….
Smith took snaps from Toomer not Moss
Moss was never meant to be Toomer’s replacement, he was supposed to be the big play speed guy that could get behind defenses. Unfortunately Moss derailed with injuries and never quite put it all together, but Steve Smith was drafted I have to believe to be the eventual replacement for Toomer. He showed enough when given opportunities to start taking Toomer’s snaps away early.
Ross earned his snaps in 2007. Besides Sam Madison who started all but one game there was still Webster, and RW on the team besides Dockery and Ross got more starts than any of those guys.
Boss and Bradshaw served in role purposes before injury required them to step up their contributions. I wouldn’t e asking for a 5th and 7th rounder to immediately earn starting snaps, those rounds may never earn starting snaps. Sure is nice when they can fill roles and even nicer when they can step up to bigger challenges.
Reese had a great draft in 2007. His top two earned snaps and he had contributions from the later picks. He deserves kudos for that draft. The problem is that draft put him in some kind of folk lore status, and his drafts after that just haven’t held up. We’ve seen little out of the early rounders (especially early) and the late rounders have basically been wastes.
Don’t tell me they didn’t allow Beatty to replace Diehl. They tried like hell to give Beatty the job and he couldn’t man up to it. Diehl may have needed help but he wasn’t committing the stupid mental errors that Beatty was when he got on the field. If Beatty could’ve handled the job it would’ve been his. Is he the LT for the next decade? Sure seems a lot of folks are looking at this team and looking for a LT to match up with in the draft. That tells me a lot of folks don’t have much faith in Mr Beatty.
The Bradshaw vs. Jacobs thing doesn’t really fit the discussion because neither is 1st or2nd year player, but I don’t know changing them would change much. Our OL was in rough shape by the end because the glaring risk there had been ignored. People can try to tell me bout how well the guys filled in and Eli wasn’t sacked yada yada. Anyone watching knows it was Eli not the OL keeping the sack numbers down (sometimes at the consequence of int numbers going up). If you look at the second half of the season like you said YPC was dipping. That I believe had a lot to do with the mashup OL.
Most interesting read on here in awhile as we continue to wade around in this labor dispute cesspool of an offseason
"Richard, who's your favorite little rascal? Is it Alfalfa?... Or is it SPANKY?... Sinner.
Wrong
Unfortunately Moss derailed with injuries and never quite put it all together
Smith missed Weeks 3 through 13 in his rookie season and injuries didn’t derail him but you’re blaming injuries for derailing Moss. Right.
He showed enough when given opportunities to start taking Toomer’s snaps away early.
How early do you mean? Toomer started 15 games in 2007 and started 12 games in 2008. In all of those instances, Smith was in the slot and Toomer was on the outside.
There was still Webster, and RW on the team
It’s not that Webster wasn’t capable of playing well. Coughlin just left him in the doghouse. By then RW was only returning punts. Madison was one starter and as I already stated, Dockery was the other starter until a hip injury hampered him. Ross didn’t take the job away from Dockery.
I wouldn’t e asking for a 5th and 7th rounder to immediately earn starting snaps, those rounds may never earn starting snaps.
I never said anything about basing expectations on where a player was drafted. I explicitly said that Coughlin would not have given them a shot if the starters hadn’t gotten hurt. Boss had 9 receptions and Bradshaw had 23 carries in the regular season. They weren’t given a shot until Coughlin had no choice.
I can’t go through all of this because your inaccuracies are too numerous.
wilddre22: why does everyone bring up Vick like its a given that that’s what EVERY player will do and respond from a prison sentence.
andiamo708: I have no clue... like going to prison is like going to LSU or something….
Two addendums
1. You say that Smith took snaps away from Toomer yet even after his playoff success, Smith started only 4 games in 2008. Guess what? Those starts came in games in which Plax didn’t play. Regardless of what the Giants wanted to happen, Smith wasn’t taking away snaps from Toomer in 2007 and 2008.
2. The fact that Webster started 16 games and had one of the best seasons of any CB in the NFL in 2008 after starting only three games in 2007 proves my point. Coughlin was too stubborn to let him play in 2007. The talent was always there. With Madison basically done in 2008, that’s when Coughlin finally gave Webster a real shot at becoming a starter.
wilddre22: why does everyone bring up Vick like its a given that that’s what EVERY player will do and respond from a prison sentence.
andiamo708: I have no clue... like going to prison is like going to LSU or something….
Im really enjoying your guys "back and forth"
Keep up the good work :-)
"Richard, who's your favorite little rascal? Is it Alfalfa?... Or is it SPANKY?... Sinner.
Unneccesarily argumentative
Moss was derailed by injuries and never quite put it all together is not an excuse or a comparison to Smith. Smith was derailed by injuries but came back and put it all together. Some players bounce back from injury, some don’t. Ross for example hasn’t been able to get back to the same level after injury.
A guy can start and not play all the snaps. A guy can also start getting the looks that would have gone elsewhere from a different position. Toomer stated his displeasure on the way out about how his role had been decreased. His role was decreased due to Smiths being increased. Smith still plays much of th game from the slot while technically being a starter now.
Or Webster wasn’t doing what he needed to in order to earn snaps. Ross was on track to replace Dockery regardless of hip. Once Ross established himself in the spot Dockery was not going to be more than a nickel for us again.
The problem with not considering where a player was drafted is you ar using the fact that a 5th and 7th rounder played due to injury to make an argument that Coughlin only plays rooks due to injury. That is poor reasoning because if a 5th and 7th rounder can give contribution to your team your in good shape and if they can fill in for an injured player you re in great shape. Using those guys to discuss what should be expected of early rounders is simply asinine. Coughlin has played NFL ready rooks regardless of injury here and in Jacksonville. The fact that Reese hasn’t provided many NFL ready picks as of late may skew that perception, but the Coughlin doesn’t play rookies bit is a farce.
Let's agree to disagree
I say Coughlin doesn’t play rookies unless he’s forced to play them despite having talented players. You say Reese hasn’t given Coughlin NFL- ready rookies but if he had, Coughlin would’ve played them..
wilddre22: why does everyone bring up Vick like its a given that that’s what EVERY player will do and respond from a prison sentence.
andiamo708: I have no clue... like going to prison is like going to LSU or something….
how'd Osi do in his first season?
Tuck?
Strahan?
2nd year?
Pathetic is worrying about what they did in their first year.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
They all did better than Linval, if that's the point you are reaching for
and none of them were first rounders, so I wouldn’t reach to compare them with JPP.
I’m not putting everything in the evaluation of the first year, that would be your straw man argument you’ve setup. I am saying using JPP as a success case for arguing Reese is the almighty doesn’t hold water.
Who said Reese was almighty?
Who even said anything about Reese?
All I’m saying is…if the New York Giants know how to do ANYTHING in the whole spectrum of the NFL it’s Develop Defensive Ends.
Look at the the number of talented defensive ends on this team for cryin’ out crackers…you got Osi, Tuck, and Kiwi, who would all start on any other teams defensive front and in most cases be their best end. JPP did not play a considerable amount last season for obvious reasons…he has two pro bowl caliber players ahead of him, three when everyones healthy.
He was a rookie. In the games he was called on (Jacksonville, and Washington he stole the show. He looks like a star in the making. And it being the New York Giants developing this very special, and very talented young man…would you expect anything less?
Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Mar 22, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
"he has two pro bowl caliber players ahead of him, three when everyones healthy"
Which sort of begs the question why was he picked? We ended up hurting at other spots that could have been addressed there. We really didn’t need a DE, and if you wanted one a guy like Dunlap would have been there in the second.
Hopefully JPP becomes something more so that it wasn’t a waste pick like other Reese picks, but JPP would not have done as well on a team that didn’t have such an already strong DL that didn’t need him. He only had to play under certain circumstances where his responsibilities were simplified and there were other players on the field who were drawing the attention of blockers. He did not yet display that he can play every down and actually handle the full job, so I’m not yet excited. If others want to get excited early I guess that’s their choice. Heck folks are already saying that losing Coefield would be no big deal because we have Linval. Hey, I hope they are right if we lose Coefield, but I’ve got no idea what they are basing their faith in Linval on at this point. He could turn out to be good, but there certainly isn’t any body of evidence to support that theory yet.
"Which sort of begs the question why was he picked?"
Cause he’s a BEAST!
Seriously man, I understand you’re not sold on Reese, and everything that has to do with Reese. Reeses Cups, Reeses Pieces, Reese Witherspoon, Reese the eldest brother from Malcom In The Middle…but let’s just say…for now…if nothing else JPP had a promising rookie season (because he did) and as Giants fans we’re looking forward to another year of improvement on the best defensive front in football.
Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Mar 23, 2011 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought Reese was the upper middle brother
that kid from Scary Movie 2 is the oldest
Details of the operations of an interstate dog fighting ring were revealed, with some portions involving drugs and gambling. Gruesome details involving abuse, torture and execution of under-performing dogs ... He admitted to being involved in the destruction of 6–8 dogs, by hanging or drowning...
by Simms-McConkey on Mar 23, 2011 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
O damn
You’re absolutely right…how could I forget about Chris Masterson…
Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Mar 23, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
it's not your fault.
he spent a lot of time in that military / boarding school.
Details of the operations of an interstate dog fighting ring were revealed, with some portions involving drugs and gambling. Gruesome details involving abuse, torture and execution of under-performing dogs ... He admitted to being involved in the destruction of 6–8 dogs, by hanging or drowning...
by Simms-McConkey on Mar 23, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea and then he got married to that asian woman correct?
Ah the good ol days
Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Mar 23, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
actually I'd say they were all pretty pathetic
Tuck-pathetic
Strahan-pathetic
Osi-pathetic
Should’ve gave up on em right then and there and drafted a bunch of LBzez
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
They actually dressed and played
but hey use your own criteria if you’d like
so did Joseph
but stick to your role and bash Reese and twist the truth every chance you get
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Tuck dressed for 14 games and started 1 his rookie year
Osi dressed for 13 games and started 1 his rookie year
Strahan had the lowest year one time with 9 games and 0 starts
Linval only dressed for 6 games
Linval had the least contribution his rookie year of the players you’ve cited. That doesn’t mean he can’t become a good player, it just means he had essentially no early contribution.
If the fact that he had no early contribution
doesn’t preclude him from being a good player, then why have you been bashing him so much?
wilddre22: why does everyone bring up Vick like its a given that that’s what EVERY player will do and respond from a prison sentence.
andiamo708: I have no clue... like going to prison is like going to LSU or something….
well OK...
then what the hell are you complaining about?
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
BECAUSE WHY DID REESE PICK HIM!!???
Don't let my support confuse you, I am in fact a fan of the Giants.
by tito (eight and oh) on Mar 25, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Linval didn't get a chance yet
so reaching is the point of this.
The straw man part of this is dismissing players after their first year, which is all you got.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Please learn the meaning of a figure of speach before attempting to use it in conversation.
I’m not dismissing players after their first year, and if I was it would not be a straw man argument. A straw man argument is fabricating what the person you are debating with has for an argument so that you can easily defeat that argument. You are setting up a “straw man” to knock it down. For example you stating that my argument is dismissing players after their first year and then arguing against that fabricated notion is a straw man argument. It’s a tactic used when individuals don’t have solid points of debate against the actual argument being made.
you're bashing players after their first year
that IS your argument, apparently whether you know it or not. You’re talking about players not getting on the field, when basically all of the great Giants defensive players who were drafted by the team also did not get on the field in their first year.
If anything, JPP was on the field MORE then any of them.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
No that is not my argument
Either you haven’t paid attention or you have comprehension challenges. The origination of this entire diatribe was simply pointing out that Reese trailed on the success sheet and lead on the failure side. Tito responded with a JPP tackle picture and I merely pointed out that JPP nor any other 2010 has proven anything yet that warrants using them as a point of proving Reese’s worth. They could turn into quality players, but have not shown that yet, especially not Linval.
I also made the point in this ongoing little ditty that while the players first year is not everything about a players career a GM does need to hit a few early contributors. An NFL team cannot afford to carry a redshirt roster like college teams can. You can get players who don’t contribute early and become stars, that’s great, but you do also need some early contributors. Reese had a lot of early contributors in 2007 and has fallen off on being able to find such players. That is a point of concern.
I also pointed out comparing JPP to Osi, Strahan, or Tuck is not a valid comparison. Strahan and Osi were both 2nd rounders and Tuck was a 3rd. Sorry but a 1st rounder should get on the field more than 3rd rounder. Look at the money given to a first round contract vs. a third round contract. Don’t you think teams pay based on expectations?
The fact of the matter is what you are portraying as my argument is simply not the case. Either you haven’t paid attention, you haven’t been able to comprehend, or quite simply you didn’t like that I had some valid points so you concocted an argument you felt you could “win” against.
You probably believe what you're saying
in that second paragraph, but when I first read your comments, I took what you said almost exactly the same as Ror44 and GhostDini did.
It’s the internet, so misunderstandings are a given
Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden
Perhaps the three of you are being overly defensive in initial readings
and I might lump in Tito here. Having critiques for Reese or the Giants organization is ok. Being realistic is ok. I state a guy hasn’t made any contribution and people fly off the handle about me bashing him. Some folks just get a little fanatic. Players who’ve yet to show anything are guaranteed superstars for some just because they are Giants. Forgive me if I take the stance that there isn’t anything saying that they won’t be stars, but they haven’t proved in any way that they will be either. Some folks are fanatically “in Reese they trust” and any questioning of the man is a cardinal sin to be reacted to quickly harshly. Forgive me if I see a GM who had a great 07, an average 08, and bad 09, and a 10 that has yet to show as being great or good and could fall to bad. At some point the shine of 07 will wear off.
That's not it
Nobody has said that Reese has been great every draft. However, you irrationally expect every draft to be littered with early contributors and dismiss the concept of a player growing into his role in two or three years.
We’re saying that while early contributions are nice they aren’t the only way to gauge a draft.
wilddre22: why does everyone bring up Vick like its a given that that’s what EVERY player will do and respond from a prison sentence.
andiamo708: I have no clue... like going to prison is like going to LSU or something….
Ok that's fine
But that’s not the vibe me (and I’d assume Ghost, Ror44 and Tito) have taken from your posts. So don’t be surprised when some of us perceive things in a less negative light than you do.
Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden
Maybe that's what you think you're saying
but in reality its not and obviously I’m not the only one to translate it as I did. Sorry.
If all you’re trying to say is Reese ain’t a genius, I agree. But no GM is. And certainly wouldn’t be if he took a LB in the 1st round nor if he expected results in rookie seasons.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Blue I know you got an axe to grind with J.R. but Have you taken a close look at Acorsi's record?
1998
3rd. WR Brian Alford Career Stats 2 Rec 18 yds 1 TD?!?!
1999
2nd rd. RB Joe Montgomery
2000 1st rd. RB Ron Dayne Nuff said!
One more
2002 2nd rd. WR Tim Brown
In fact Tim Brown or Moss have to be the top two candidates for worst 2nd round pick in the last 10 years!
by Late for Dinner on Mar 22, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
won't even mention George Young's drafting record after Parcells left
but yea.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
our first round picks
suck… the only ones worth a first round pick are eli hakeem and shockey…. and are hakeem and shockey really worth it?
by The Blood of Eli on Mar 23, 2011 11:45 AM EDT reply actions
the 90s had much better first round quality...
shaun williams, luke pettigout, ike hilliard, rodney hampton
by The Blood of Eli on Mar 23, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Ike was a first rounder?
Not that its that big a deal, but I thought he was a second. Was he a Fla Gator?
"Richard, who's your favorite little rascal? Is it Alfalfa?... Or is it SPANKY?... Sinner.
ya man
ike was the 7th overall pick
by The Blood of Eli on Mar 24, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
WOW, not sure why I don't recall that.
I could look it up but I was too busy (lazy) last night.
"Richard, who's your favorite little rascal? Is it Alfalfa?... Or is it SPANKY?... Sinner.
hakeem "the dream" nicks is worth it for more than his name
Dear FOX... Fire Aikman
NO Oline in the first!!!!!!!!!
I wrote this sig. So if Chris Broussard says he did. he's lying. infact if Chris Broussard says he wrote any store he's lying
WINNING! Tigerblood
All NY All The Time (Giants,Knicks,Yankees,Rangers,RU)
*Note to all eagles fans*
Your team has never won a SB.
by 56THE REAL LT on Mar 23, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
If he can stay healthy
Nicks has been nicked a lot thus far.
we can pray that he does
Nicks has been nicked a lot thus far.
Pun intended?
Dear FOX... Fire Aikman
NO Oline in the first!!!!!!!!!
I wrote this sig. So if Chris Broussard says he did. he's lying. infact if Chris Broussard says he wrote any store he's lying
WINNING! Tigerblood
All NY All The Time (Giants,Knicks,Yankees,Rangers,RU)
*Note to all eagles fans*
Your team has never won a SB.
by 56THE REAL LT on Mar 23, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
Dear FOX... Fire Aikman
NO Oline in the first!!!!!!!!!
I wrote this sig. So if Chris Broussard says he did. he's lying. infact if Chris Broussard says he wrote any store he's lying
WINNING! Tigerblood
All NY All The Time (Giants,Knicks,Yankees,Rangers,RU)
*Note to all eagles fans*
Your team has never won a SB.
by 56THE REAL LT on Mar 24, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Link
Anyone got a link to this series of articles? I’m actually very curious to read the whole series.
It wasn't a single story with one link
CBS has a Rapid Reports section for every team. It’s kinda like Twitter reports for each team but on the CBS Sports website. I was following the posts on the Giants and saw this. You’d have to go back a few pages of posts on each team’s page to see them now.
wilddre22: why does everyone bring up Vick like its a given that that’s what EVERY player will do and respond from a prison sentence.
andiamo708: I have no clue... like going to prison is like going to LSU or something….
Tyrone Wheatley
How in the world he hasn’t even been mentioned as the epic fail of the “heir apparently not” to my favorite all time Giant Rodney Hampton is beyond me.
"Intelligence is not a genetic predisposition. Think stupid!!"
by Wright of passage on Mar 25, 2011 12:18 PM EDT reply actions
yes
tyrone was to rodney wat ron was to tiki
by The Blood of Eli on Mar 25, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Tyrone end up with a decent NFL career
Kind of like Dhani Jones, he was not very good with us but went on to have a pretty decent career with other teams. Coming out of college he was supposed to be the next great RB so he was a huge disappointment here.
by Late for Dinner on Mar 27, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
7th
the best ever was jesse armstead by a country mile
except he was an 8th round pick!!
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
And was a skinny-ass little safety out of the "U"
"Richard, who's your favorite little rascal? Is it Alfalfa?... Or is it SPANKY?... Sinner.
if you like epicness in the comment section, go check the battle royal taking place on the hate game thread
Dear FOX... Fire Aikman
NO Oline in the first!!!!!!!!!
I wrote this sig. So if Chris Broussard says he did. he's lying. infact if Chris Broussard says he wrote any store he's lying
WINNING! Tigerblood
All NY All The Time (Giants,Knicks,Yankees,Rangers,RU)
*Note to all eagles fans*
Your team has never won a SB.
by 56THE REAL LT on Mar 26, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions

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