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Draft Strategy: Positional Value

[Note by Ed Valentine: This is one community member's thought on draft value. I don't agree with all of it, but it's well thought out, so I pushed it to the front so that more of you would find it. ]

Greetings BBV,

Here's another aspect of the whole drafting process that I wanted to bring up, and how it affects specifically the Giants' drafting strategies and how it ties into the concept of BPA/Need.

Star-divide

The way I define positional value is to Madden-ize a team. Take your team, make every single player have a rating of 99 (that's basically all star status) and have the particular position you are looking at to be extremely crappy and then look at your chances of winning.

Another way to define it is how much the player who is great at the position helps you win games.

 

These rankings are by no means objective, but are generally agreed upon (although cases can be made to move a few around):

1) Quarterback - This couldn't be more apparent. You could put Peyton Manning on the Panthers and they could be a threat

2) Offensive Tackle - Especially LT (if QB is right handed), they protect the QB against the best pass rushers to maintain his rhythm AND have a very prominent role in run support as well. The blindside tackle gets more of a boost.

3) 43DE/34OLB - The pass rushers are the other side of the equation. You disrupt (or in the Giants' case, knock out) the QB, and you have the potential to dominate the other team. Also are key in run support.

4) Wide Receiver - The great ones overshadow their QBs sometimes. Can be game changers. Look no further than the impact Plaxico had in Eli's progression as a QB over the years.

5) Cornerback - A good one can single-handedly win a game for you. I know the Jets' defensive scheme is a spot of contentious debate, but I fully believe that a Nnamdi Asomugha or Darrelle Revis (that can shutdown a #1 WR) can open things up for everyone and make the QB hold the ball longer to support the pass rush.

6) Running back - Also can be gamebreakers, but are lower on the list then WRs because are at least somewhat dependent on Oline run support. Also, good ones are found much more often in the later rounds, whereas the drop off is significant from the 1st round to the later rounds with the positions ranked above.

7) 3-4 NT - Apart from rush lb's, probably most important in 34 DEF. Has to be able to gobble up 2+ blockers to free up rushing lanes and clog up the middle against the run. A good one is vital to be a strong defense.

8) 4-3 DT - Same reasons as the NT, but are not as vital in clogging up rushing lanes because, well, there's 2 of 'em. Also have some pass rushing duties as well.

9) MLB/ILB - Have to be versatile enough to lock down middle of the field and also provide run support. Of great importance because they are primary signal callers and must recognize offensive formations to call audibles. Often are the field generals of the defense.

10) Offensive Guard - We can see the importance of having a great one, as we have one of the best in Chris Snee. Most effective in run support and can provide devastating blocking for the running backs. Also help in pass support, trying to juggle both DTs and DEs.

11) 43OLB - Are more limited in their flexibility and are used to sometimes cover the TE and chase down the RB that gets the edge. Are this low because a strong defensive line can let you get away with mediocre LBs, which has been the case with the Giants.

12) Tight End - Have a plethora of jobs. Some are used as a safety blanket for the QB (See: Dallas Clark, Jason Witten), and because of their size, are valuable in run support, often getting downfield and trying to block safeties and LBs.

13) Center - Generally have to be the smartest offensive lineman, has to be responsible for maintaining QBs rhythm with the snap count, and has to taken on the beefiest dudes when blocking up the middle.

14) Safety - We've seen what happens when you don't have good safeties. You might disagree with this ranking because C.C. Brown regularly shows up in Giants fans' nightmares, but I think that serviceable safeties are fine if the rest of the defense is strong. They are the last line of defense.

15) KR/PR - Two names. Devin Hester. Desean Jacka--, err, Jackson. 

16) Fullback - Some teams don't use them, but good ones are invaluable. Remember Mike Alstott?

17) P/K - Used obviously in special situations. Can literally make or break games, but apart from a few exceptions, are a dime a dozen

 

Ok, so, where the heck am I going with all of this? Well, as a general rule of thumb, this means that if two players are of "equal talent," you look at the position. This means that a fantastic QB prospect (Sam Bradford) will ALMOST (there's always exceptions) beat out a historically legendary DT prospect (Ndamukong Suh). It means that when considering what to select, this is a strong influence when it comes to BPA.

This is somewhat obvious (the draft is almost always top heavy with QBs, CBs, WRs, DEs, DTs, etc and low on G, S, TE, etc)

With that said, here are the positions of the first 3 rounds of each Giants draft since 2006:

2006: DE, WR, MLB

2007: CB, WR, DT

2008: FS, CB, WR

2009: WR, OLB, OT, WR, TE

2010: DE, DT, S

 

With the exception of 2008 (when we picked 31st) did we pick a position ranked lower than 5 in the 1st round. Dline and WR dominated the rounds, so it seems Jerry Reese averages around the 4-8 range in terms of positional value in the first three rounds.The mean positional ranking was actually 6.7.

As I said in my other post, Reese is heavily involved with the BPA strategy. That's the reason why we picked JPP. Clint Sintim (even though he played 3-4 in college) and Will Beatty were projected by almost all pundits to be 1st round or very high 2nd round picks.

There were only a few times that Reese picked low positional values in these rounds. The only times that positional value didn't affect Reese's picks were when the players were BPA by a long shot (like Sintim), or JR foresaw it being a huge need in the future. Based upon this information, along with the fact that JR has made it known he likes BPA, and assuming that the current prospect rankings are where they are...

I'm going to predict that if Akeem Ayers is available when we pick, he may or may not be the selection depending on how high he is on JR's board. If he is around 19-20, and Brandon Harris is of similar value, based on JR's history, I'm going with Brandon Harris as the pick. However, if Ayers is ranked around 12-13 to Reese, as is his rank in many big boards, I can easily see him being the pick.

Similarly, this is the reason why I believe that Mike Pouncey will NOT be the pick. The positional value is just not there. He will have to be very high on Reese's board in order to be the pick. I can see  Gabe Carimi, Derrek Sherrod, or Nate Solder as likelier picks.

Note: It isn't necessarily what I'd like the Giants to do, its just simply who I think they will pick.

 

Thoughts? Criticisms? Rock on, fellas.

FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.

Comment 18 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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tho i’d rank KR/PR higher

Dear FOX...
Fire Aikman and replace him with Strahan please

by 56THE REAL LT on Feb 16, 2011 10:34 PM EST reply actions  

While I agree some positions are more valuable than others

I never was a fan of ranking positions by importance, because no matter how good a QB is, if his center can’t get him the ball, doesn’t do him much good. Same as if you have a great WR but you if you don’t have a QB to get it to em, or a running game to throw defenses off balance, doesn’t do the team any good. Point is that football is a team sport, and I’m not sure if ranking positions by importance would have any accuracy to it.

by #56 4life on Feb 17, 2011 7:45 AM EST reply actions  

You just proved the point

QB’s are far more important than WR’s. Larry Fitzgerald without a future HOF QB is merely very good. Tom Brady consistently succeeds with mediocre receivers.

However, look at how good Seubert and Koets looked at Center. Didn’t make much of a difference who was playing there.

You can scheme around positions with low positional value. Much much harder to work around the valuable positions unless the other positions are completely stacked.

by Charles L on Feb 17, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Cornerback

Should be ranked higher.

Kiper has us taking Solder. You heard it here, the Giants are NOT taking an OT in the first round. Fugetaboutit…. Diehl, Beatty, MacKenzie, Andrews are it…..

Fix the Defense

by dubsrub on Feb 17, 2011 8:48 AM EST reply actions  

Offensive tackle

If you claim to “know” with certainty, which you seem to, that the Giants absolutely will or won’t do something, you kill your own credibility. Unless you are Jerry Reese in disguise you don’t “know” anything with certainty.

Let’s not forget that these are all our opinions. No more, no less. No one can say with certainty what the Giants will or won’t do. Right now not even Reese knows.

by Ed Valentine on Feb 17, 2011 9:04 AM EST up reply actions  

i hope they do not take an olineman

Dear FOX...
Fire Aikman and replace him with Strahan please

by 56THE REAL LT on Feb 17, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

If the Giants take an OT

Then I do not understand why the Giants have kept Coughlin on because they have signed his death warrant by:

1) Drafting JPP, a developmental DE prospect who only saw spot duty because Kiwi got hurt. He was not a player who was going to provide Coughlin with help in what was deemed a “critical” year for Coughlin to keep his job. It is irrelevant even if JPP turns out to be a ProBowl player to ten years. Last year was an UNCAPPED year, with a weak NFC in which the Giants were legitimate contenders. The Giants needed help at LB. The Packers drafted a need with Bulaga who plugged in they won the SuperBowl. McCLuster provided instant impact for the Chiefs, one of the most improved teams in the league, Weatherspoon helped the Falcons to the #1 seed. Coughlin got shorted at the expense of the “future”. Newsflash, the future was now…

2) Drafting Joseph in the second round, then keeping him deactivated for most of the year.
Again, marginal contributions from the first two picks in the draft.

3) Then, capping it off in Coughlins final year by drafting a rookie OT, who is NOT going to play behind vets like McKenzie, Andrews or Diehl and will contribute AFTER Coughlin takes the fall and gets released after the end of this contract. Deihl got hurt, everyone in the world crapped on him and said we lost his job – what did the Giants do, they put him RIGHT BACK IN. Reese obviously has faith in him if others do not, I will admit that. He was the one that put him there in the first place. If we are keeping Andrews with the escalators in his contract, what exactly are we keeping him FOR? Everyone has said all along his aspirations were to Tackle eventually.

OT is not happening in my opinion.. What exactly are the Giants “building towards the future” for anyway? We have a franchise QB now, a healthy Tuck now, Osi NOW, the best WR corps in Giants history and the NFC is as weak as ever…. what we don’t have is anyone in the middle of the defense. And defense wins championships.

OT would be a ridiculous pick in my opinion. You have your opinion, and I have mine.

by dubsrub on Feb 17, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Some excellent points in there,

such as the players drafted by GB, KC and ATL and the contributions to their teams. OT is low on my first round wish list as well because it’s likely one won’t be the BPA.

However, you have stated a few times that the NFC was weak last year and as weak as ever. I could not disagree more. Only the NFC West was weak and their Div champ won a playoff game. The other divisions are stacked. So much so that you had 2 10 win teams miss the playoffs.

Here’s another one, and excuse the obvious: the NFC has won 3 of the last 4 Super Bowls.

This league has seen what I would call a curious cyclical trend of having a dominant conference for long periods of time. The 70’s the AFC was clearly dominant with 4 Steeler SB’s, and 2 for both MIA and OAK. Starting in 81, with the 49er’s, the NFC dominates by winning 15 of 16 SB’s.

Then, in 97, we saw Elway helicopter his way to a Bronco championship and usher in a period of AFC dominance where we have witnessed the AFC winning 8 0f 10 SB’s, ending with our G-Men beating NE. Now, the AFC was still the better conference in 2007, 2008, and in 2009. But I believe this shift started with the Giants win, and gained momentum in 08 and 09.

I thought at the beginning of 09 that we would see a clear change in dominance. We did not. But I see it now. And it’s going to increase in my opinion.

"Just when I thought you could'nt be any dumber, you go and do this... AND TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!!

by tommy d. on Feb 18, 2011 8:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree Ed

I have pretty much given up trying to predict who the Giants will take. I enjoy the draft and player profiles and the whole process, but trying to predict who the Giants will take, is pointless, because we dont even know 10% of what the Giants and Reese know.

by BigBlue82 on Feb 17, 2011 10:57 AM EST reply actions  

OT rankings discourage a #1 pick by NYG

There are no “killer” (e.g. top 10) OTs in this draft so I expect that JR will try to get value in an OT in his #2 pick. That’s if you believe the pundits.

I am not a draftnik so I do not know what to think if Ayers. I do know that an impact OLB would be nice.

I can also see JR going for a CB. Like DEs, you can never have enough CBs in the NFL these days.

But while I agree with BigBlue82, this is a thought provoking post Ed. Thanks

I might pitch a fit but I won't put on my brakes. Stand in the Fire.

by MSP Giant on Feb 17, 2011 11:01 AM EST reply actions  

Proof points - one perspective

Tony Pauline, TFYDraft.com on top 50 prospects

http://tiny.cc/yipy5

I might pitch a fit but I won't put on my brakes. Stand in the Fire.

by MSP Giant on Feb 17, 2011 12:06 PM EST reply actions  

very week agrument Dusbsrub

more of a bitter rant …..

The Giants dont view the linebacker position as important as some fans and other teams, they want a DOMINANT line that will make linebackers look better, its just how they run things, just get used to it, its not that bad of a system

by BigBlue82 on Feb 17, 2011 12:41 PM EST reply actions  

Brooks Reed/DE-LB/Arizona

I want that guy drafted or Von Miller.

by Bavaro 89 on Feb 17, 2011 1:46 PM EST reply actions  

Really?

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Feb 17, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

i hope not

Dear FOX...
Fire Aikman and replace him with Strahan please

by 56THE REAL LT on Feb 17, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I completely agree, not all positions have equal value / importance...

…nor are they even close….and overall, the order of your lists looks very good. I might slide the RB postion down two slots though immediately after the DT psoitition, but that’s debatable.

by 62Met on Feb 17, 2011 6:49 PM EST reply actions  

good read, thanks

i agree with the top 3 positions but in a slightly different order . First is the headquarter, second the headquarter destroyer, third is the primary headquarter protector.This is of course imho. Love draft talk!

luckily im a bronco and a blazer fan

by chikndnnr on Feb 20, 2011 3:02 PM EST reply actions  

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