Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Devils Beat Rangers, Head To Stanley Cup Finals

2008 Giants Draft Review: Kenny Phillips Class Not What It Could Have Been

Kenny Phillips and Terrell Thomas were the Giants first two selections in the 2008 NFL Draft.  (Photo by Chris McGrath/Getty Images)

Most NFL experts tell you it takes three seasons to fully judge the success or failure of a team's particular draft class. In general, I agree with that sentiment. By that theory we should now be able to get a good read on exactly what the Giants hauled in with their selections in the 2008 NFL Draft.

So, let's take a look.

Round 1 (31st) -- Kenny Phillips (S)

Phillips was the guy Giants General Manager Jerry Reese really wanted in the 2008 Draft. He is the guy most folks here at Big Blue View at the time wanted. He was the right selection. In hindsight, though, it still has not quite worked out the way the Giants hoped.

They were hoping to get the next Ed Reed or Brandon Meriweather, the next great game-changing safety from Miami. Phillips has not quite lived up to that billing. The arthritic knee condition that befell him in 2009 and cost him all but two games is, of course, a large part of the reason. He was healthy in 2010, and was good, but not great.

Maybe what you see is what you get with KP -- good, but not the difference-maker the Giants had hoped for.

Star-divide

Round 2 (63rd) -- Terrell Thomas (CB)

A risky pick in the second round because of some injury concerns while he was at USC, Thomas is a big, physical corner who was a great fit for the man-to-man press coverage style employed by then-defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo.

Thomas had five of his career total of 11 interceptions in 2010, and is a sure tackler and excellent run defender on the edge who made 121 tackles in 2010. What he is not is a great fit in the more zone-oriented scheme employed by current defensive coordinator Perry Fewell. Not to rely on them too much, but Thomas was -8.5 in pass coverage in 2010 after rating +8.9 in the press scheme employed by Bill Sheridan, the style held over from Spagnuolo.

As an aside, this is my one problem with Fewell. He is not using his corners and safeties in the roles for which they are drafted or signed. He is fitting them into his system, rather than utilizing their talents to their fullest.

Thomas was a good pick, and is a good player. To me, he just is not being utilized in the best way.

Round 3 (95th) -- Mario Manningham (WR)

Manningham is not DeSean Jackson, but he is pretty darn good. He is a big part of the reason why the Giants have one of the most explosive big-play passing attacks in the league. Functioning as the No. 3 receiver most of the past two years Manningham has 117 catches in that time, 14 for touchdowns. He can be frustratingly inconsistent with his route-running, but he should be a home run-hitting wide receiver for years to come.

Nothing to complain about with this pick.

Round 4 (123rd) -- Bryan Kehl (OLB)

This is where Reese's magic touch, which he had in a 2007 draft that produced players from the first to the seventh rounds who helped the Giants win a Super Bowl, began to desert him.

As Michael Lombardi, then of the National Football Post and now the NFL Network, pointed out to me the Giants have for decades employed a "size, speed formula" in the drafting of linebackers. Kehl, out of BYU, fit the mold. He is an excellent athlete and was generally considered the strongest linebacker on the team -- while he was on the team.

The problem is that Kehl could not play, at least not in a 4-3. He was a 3-4 linebacker in college trying to convert to the Giants 4-3 system. He also simply did not possess the aggressiveness to be a quality NFL linebacker. The Giants released him, and he is now a member of the St. Louis Rams.

Let's hope that the Giants are spending some time re-examining that linebacker formula. It's a different game than when the Giants were drafting Lawrence Taylor, Carl Banks and Harry Carson -- plus the Giants are playing a 4-3 scheme not the 3-4 of those years. Different era, different defense equals time to update the formula, gang.

Round 5 (165th) -- Jonathan Goff (MLB)

Few people thought Goff could hold down the middle linebacker job after the Giants parted ways with Antonio Pierce. He did just that in 2010, however. Goff will likely never be an All-Pro, but he is a solid run defender who can occasionally get into the backfield and make a play. He can be a liability at times in pass coverage, though he was better there in 2010 than I anticipated.

For a fifth-round choice, the Giants are getting pretty good mileage from Goff.

Round 6 (198th) -- Andre Woodson (QB)

A complete waste. Reese and the Giants got it in their heads that they wanted to develop their own backup quarterback for Eli Manning. The sad part is they didn't learn from this mistake, repeating it the next season by wasting another late-round pick on quarterback Rhett Bomar.

Just forget this nonsense, sign a veteran like you did with Jim Sorgi or Sage Rosenfels and quit wasting late picks on quarterbacks. First off, Manning does not get hurt. Secondly, if he does the Giants are pretty much sunk no matter who the backup is. So, use those picks to help your depth elsewhere.

Round 6 (199th -- compensatory pick -- Robert Henderson (DE)

Another wasted pick. Back when he was drafted I remember reading scouting reports that said, basically, he was not an NFL player. Those proved correct. Reese would have been better off taking a flier on a potential kick returner or a specialist rather than drafting a player at a stocked position who seemingly never had a chance to make the team.

Overall

Four good players, a mistake (Kehl) and two wasted choices (Woodson, Henderson). This draft would like a lot different if a) Phillips had never gotten hurt and b) Thomas was being utilized in the system for which he was drafted. As it is, this is a good draft but not much more than that.

Grade: B-

Comment 70 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Could not have said it better myself.

 “This is my one problem with Fewell. He is not using his corners and safeties in the roles for which they are drafted or signed. He is fitting them into his system, rather than utilizing their talents to their fullest”.

Why is Tom Quinn still here?

by costanza! on Feb 12, 2011 9:29 AM EST reply actions  

Bang !!

I was just typing the same thought. Seems like Fewell is not putting players in position to be successful.

Quinn must go !!

by njgiant on Feb 12, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

it was perry's first season, he wasn't there when we drafted these guys

i don’t think he knew what they were drafted for, you will see changes this season, in the defensive system or the defensive cooridinator. give perry this offseason to get re-aquanted with his team, i think he knows who they are now

Dear FOX...
Fire Aikman please

by 56THE REAL LT on Feb 12, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Film

You can’t tell me he didn’t watch a lot of film on these guys before camp started. That’s his job. He knew what he had in terms of how they had been used previously. He had press corners plays Cover 2 zones, and ball-hawking safeties playing up at the line as extra linebackers.

by Ed Valentine on Feb 12, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

As a people manager

One of my strengths was always to look at the people and use their talents rather than trying to force the old square peg into round hole theory.

Fewell is making a mistake. Either trade the guys (not good) or use them properly.

Basic management 101.

All the Giants should play like Mark Bavaro.
Tom Quinn Must Go!
On second thought, let's not blame players or coaches, they are not responsible. The unsupportive fans are to blame.

by UnknownJintsFan on Feb 12, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

i think that will change this year

if he can’t utilize them correctly tho, then why bother using them at all. your right. it’s alot harder to get 3 or 4 players to change the way they play and there strengthes then it is to change the system.
i’m just saying give the players another year b4 you judge them, it’s hard to switch from a superbowl winning defense to a sherridan defense then back to an elite defense in 3 years

Dear FOX...
Fire Aikman please

by 56THE REAL LT on Feb 12, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Lately

I’ve been wondering if the lack of continuity has hurt some of these players development. Especially the LB’s and DB’s. . D lineman have simpler tasks as far as recognition. But the turnover at D coordinator can not help these young LB’s and DB’s who need time to develop into a system. I think that was why they made the bad move to Sheridan. Good idea but wrong coach.
 Let’s hope Perry stays around a few years. But if he’s successful, as we hope he is, he’ll probably be a head coach somewhere else at this time next year. Sigh.

Go Giants!

by ronjohnson on Feb 12, 2011 9:32 AM EST reply actions  

The question is why

Why does Fuel not let these guys play to their strengths and design schemes accordingly? I dont have an answer to that.

Why is Tom Quinn still here?

by costanza! on Feb 12, 2011 9:34 AM EST reply actions  

I think

He had to put his system in place pretty quickly last year without regard to players strengths and weaknesses. Let’s give him this year to make the proper adjustments of marrying personnel to his system and visa versa.

Go Giants!

by ronjohnson on Feb 12, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

That's true

I also think “they” were protecting KP as well. I also think Fewell would be better served mixing up his coverages regarding his corners, play more man/press coverage.
One more thing there Perry, watch some video, Ross really does suck at blitzing!

What happened to Frank083?

by Great Gatsby on Feb 12, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Every coach does this though

probably because they base their resumes around a style or scheme. Look at how Jim Haslett kept hammering the square pegs in Washington into the round holes of his scheme. Took a perrenial top ten defense and dropped them to the bottom of the league.

Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange

by bigbluethruandthru on Feb 12, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

gotta go with what you know

he did play press coverage at least at times this year. Did it for 3 1/2 quarters against the Eagles too.

I kinda think that KP getting healthier and maybe through the draft or FA they get a more tampa 2 friendly corner will help.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Feb 12, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Coordinators and coaches supposedly watch tons of film.

Apparently, the former secondary coach didn’t watch any film of the secondary when he was devising a defense. Either that or Fewell isn’t intelligent enough to fit his players’ abilities to his scheme.

I talked about it last off-season and I had hoped that Fewell would get the defense back to an aggressive style. It drove me crazy all season long to see that soft coverage nonsense.

"I was going to separate from this guy and make him look silly." -- Kevin Boss

by GhostDini on Feb 12, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Looks like a pretty good draft to me.

Anytime you can get four solid starters — in today’s offenses, Manningham is essentially a starter — out of third-year players, you’re doing pretty well. It’s very instructive to go back through every one of our drafts, or any team’s. Tons of names barely recalled, if at all. And if Fewell is indeed making a tactical mistake with his personnel, which I’m not qualified to judge, that would not affect the quality of the draft.

by saturday on Feb 12, 2011 10:07 AM EST reply actions  

Draft

What it does affect is the quality of the performance. Thomas is the best example. He did not play as well as he can, largely I believe because he was not used in a way that maximizes what he does best.

by Ed Valentine on Feb 12, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Good points

I’m excited to see how they progress next year with some continuity. And maybe KP still makes that next step and becomes a dominant player. No matter what he said last year, when you’ve been told you might not play again, that has to get inside your head.

Go Giants!

by ronjohnson on Feb 12, 2011 10:07 AM EST reply actions  

Oops

Meant that as a reply to Gatsby.

Go Giants!

by ronjohnson on Feb 12, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

with hindsight

who would you get if you had a re-draft?

I love Phillips, but I think knowing the knee injury, I might consider Brandon Flowers or Curtis Lofton who both went a few picks later. Maybe Jamal Charles in the second.
Thought these picks were the right ones at the time (obviously you never know with the late rounds but those didn’t work out) and these guys are contributing to a good defense that will hopefully improve this season.

by dannymac56 on Feb 12, 2011 10:13 AM EST reply actions  

Unfortunately

None of those guys fit the Giants’ height-weight-speed formula.

Flowers is 5’9, Lofton is 6’0, and Charles is essentially the same size as Steve Smith…

He was the BPA at the position of greatest need. It was a no brainer.

by Charles L on Feb 12, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

It's hard for me to fault Reese for the 2008 draft.

Phillips and Thomas are good players who may not yet have reached their full potential. Goff and Kehl didn’t pan out as well but Goff is still starting even if he isn’t a superstar. Manningham seems to be getting better every year.

Fewell has masked our linebacker weaknesses as well as could be expected. He needs some viable LB’s ASAP.

Yeah woodson was a dumb move. I do think the Giants need to draft a young quarterback, Ed. I think more teams will be looking to have 3 QB’s now that they have seen what happened to the Vikings, Lions and Cowboys last year.

by giant fan since 57 on Feb 12, 2011 10:29 AM EST reply actions  

Grade

I’d give it Reese a B for this draft. Solid. No impact players yet, unless Mario or KP surprise and take a big step forward. i think they both have the ability, if they stay healthy, to do that.
 Mario took a while to learn the system but sometimes he makes my jaw drop. The way he jukes the DB out of his shoes and makes them miss the hit completely after the catch. Of course he still makes my jaw drop with his brain cramps too, and he needs to keep growing in the mental aspects of the game. That careless fumble started the ball rolling in “the meltdown”, not that I need to remind anybody.

Go Giants!

by ronjohnson on Feb 12, 2011 10:48 AM EST reply actions  

i would go with b+

supossing fewell starts usin KP and TT to there strengths, and doesn’t have kenny 25 yards off the ball. i think Mario hasn’t reached his prime yet neither have TT or KP, Phillips got injured so we don’t know about him to much yet, he’s still recovering from that knee injury, judge him after this season, if there is one

Dear FOX...
Fire Aikman please

by 56THE REAL LT on Feb 12, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

KP

I was going to make the same point, the second year back after surgery will tell us what type of player we have.

by G-FANinFL on Feb 12, 2011 11:11 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

yup

look at osi

Dear FOX...
Fire Aikman please

by 56THE REAL LT on Feb 12, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

the longer KP gets away from that surgery, the better he'll be

I think this year he’ll be able to play SS with Rolle more so the CF, which he’s better at.

I think Mario’s already an impact player, I’ve seen entirely too many times him torch the defense but Eli can’t get him the ball. He might be a bonehead and that affects Eli’s trust in him, but I think if he was on a team like say…the Eagles, where they really don’t run many complex routes, he’d really be a beast.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Feb 12, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Interesting thought..

"Just when I thought you could'nt be any dumber, you go and do this... AND TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!!

by tommy d. on Feb 12, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Its probably why the Giants have tailed off at the end of the year the past few

in that the 4-7th rounds haven’t really produced anything other than John Goff. 2007 we had nearly every pick make an impact other than Koets (at least right away).

Tough to fault a GM for not hitting more in the late rounds, but if you don’t have 50 picks every year like the Patriots, you kinda got to.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Feb 12, 2011 10:56 AM EST reply actions  

Extra picks

That is a big part of the reason why I get annoyed with these project quarterback picks. If you have a couple of extra picks, fine. If you don’t, take players you think might actually have a shot at getting on the field.

by Ed Valentine on Feb 12, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

That's the difference

between BB with NE, and how the Giants operate their draft…Lets recall the Giants HAD
10 picks in the 2009 draft, made one move, moved up 5 picks in the 3rd Rd. to draft Barden.

Now, look at NE, how BB maneuvers the draft, and this year has 2 picks in EACH of the first
3 rounds. I don’t particularly care for the guy, but I do respect his football acumen.

What happened to Frank083?

by Great Gatsby on Feb 12, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

We did need a backup QB when Woodson was drafted

And I really liked him in college. Thought it was a great pick. I was disappointed he did not work out.

by ct17 on Feb 13, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

George Young's drafts

Always interesting to go back and review a pretty dark period of NYG drafting: the early-to-mid 90s. George Young may have brought back respectability (and championships) to the Giants, but he also selected a slew of duds. Here are the first two picks of each year:

1991: Jarrod Bunch, Kanavis McGhee
1992: The Browns (Derek and Dave)
1993: Michael Strahan (pretty good one there), Marcus Buckley
1994: Thomas Lewis, Thomas Randolph
1995: Tyrone Wheatley, Scott Gragg (I believe he was cut and then played for the 49ers)
1996: Cedric Jones, Amani Toomer (pretty good draft for the Ravens, who took Jonathan Ogden with #4 and Ray Lewis with #26).

by IRememberRocky on Feb 12, 2011 11:28 AM EST reply actions  

Jarrod Bunch

was not that bad a choice – he gained 501 yards in 104 carries in 1992, playing FB when Rodney Hampton was the tailback. Then a knee injury effectively ended his career. He may not have been a great pick, but he wasn’t the total bust that, say, Derek Brown was.

Mickey C

by Mickey C on Feb 12, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Gragg started at RT for a few years. Not very agile – could not pass block.

by ct17 on Feb 13, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I really disagreed with this evaluation at first glance

Specifically with KP and Keuhl and Goff. I didn’t see another S picked after Phillips that has shined in the league, same with Keuhl and Goff.

Overall, the 2008 class looked really weak.

We just really need some damn speed on the field to go up against Philly.

Please get Phil Simms in the Hall of Fame

by The Curse on Feb 12, 2011 12:49 PM EST reply actions  

Brandon Meriweather

Is hardly a great game changing safety. A healthy Kenny Phillips is pretty much equal to Meriweather, aside from a few INTs. The knee issue bothers me, but I’d say Phillips still has more upside than that goon Meriweather

by DanTuc27 on Feb 12, 2011 1:50 PM EST reply actions  

yea Meriweather is a rich man's CC Brown

that he makes the Pro Bowl year in and out is more than enough to laugh at the term “Pro Bowler”.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Feb 12, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I did not see this when I posted below

but yes

Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden

by Willgfass on Feb 12, 2011 7:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Let us not downgrade our drafts

And seemingly give credit to other teams. Lets look at the whole first before we say that Jerry should have done better. New England does get some quality players yes but they aren’t starting Ben Jarvis Green-Ellis for nothing. When they have drafted a RB (Laurence Maroney in 2006) that player should be a franchise cornerstone but that 1st round pick failed, opening the door for lesser heralded players. Same goes for New Orleans in the same draft, Reggie Bush hasn’t lived up to the billing of the 2nd overall pick either, these misses create openings at positions on good teams. So now it appears that these teams were savvy when in fact they first failed and then plugged in players that somehow stuck. This isn’t genious, its finding players who fit the scheme who learned behind fail draft picks. Lets examine the whole first.

by Robin's-meats-and-vegetables on Feb 12, 2011 2:21 PM EST reply actions  

The Pats

drafted Gronkowski, Hernandez, McCourty (rookie Pro Bowler, and he deserved it).
As I mentioned above^, 6 picks in the first 3 rounds this year! No one can question BB’s football acumen, and JR could learn a lesson or two from him, on HOW to maneuver a draft.
Of course he learned from Accorsi, who learned from Young…It’s the Giants way of doing things!

What happened to Frank083?

by Great Gatsby on Feb 13, 2011 5:02 AM EST up reply actions  

That was last year

before this draft, the talk was how Bill didn’t have a good draft in a while despite all those draft picks.

It’s really cyclical imo. Can’t win every draft

Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden

by Willgfass on Feb 13, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

This year

He traded Seymour to get an extra pick, traded Cassel, extra pick, traded somebody else,
another extra pick…Two picks in each of the first 3 rounds. My point is, in 2009, the G-Men
had 10 picks, made ONE move in the third round…not exactly maneuvering the draft.
It would be nice if the front office thought “outside the box” once in a while, regarding
how they conduct the draft, wouldn’t you agree?

What happened to Frank083?

by Great Gatsby on Feb 14, 2011 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

He traded seymour before the 09 season

Cassel was also last season, and believe me if we could trade Rosenfels or Bomar for a second round pick, we’d do it as soon as possible.

Belli got his second 2nd round pick because carolina was stupid and traded their future second round pick for a current third round pick last year.

I’m perfectly happy with how Reese handles the draft. Trading back for the sake of trading back doesn’t always work.
Look at the 09 draft. The pats had the most picks, but arguably added nothing but a bunch of bums.
08, one player (Jared Mayo) and the rest most people have never heard of or play.
07, one player (Brandon Meriweather, who really isn’t that good), and a bunch of fodder.
06 is perhaps their worst draft, with no impact players besides their kicker!

My point is, so what? the draft is a crap shoot, no matter what any one says. More picks =/= a better draft.

Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden

by Willgfass on Feb 14, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

C'mon

I know when he traded Cassel and Seymour, I live in New England, also well aware the draft “should” be more of a “crap shoot” in the later rounds, not earlier in the draft.
In 2009, second round. G-Men, Sintim early in the second round, then Beatty
later in the same round. Lets move on to the 3rd round, shall we, Beckum and
Barden…Two square pegs in a round hole, a project, and somebody who hasn’t
shown this coaching staff that is he is worthy of starting yet. I am just comparing
apples to apples, if you want to make analogies.

What happened to Frank083?

by Great Gatsby on Feb 14, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

My point is

even Belichick, the “prophet” and “master” of the draft has had stinkers.

Including in the first and second rounds. Laurance Maroney ring some bells?

Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden

by Willgfass on Feb 14, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Now

you want to compare first round failures between this organization and
the Patriots? Oh the levity! If you totally read what I said above, I said
this organization “once in a while” can think “outside the box”.
I can assure you BB, would not have made the type of selections that
JR made in the second & third rounds of the 2009 draft!

What happened to Frank083?

by Great Gatsby on Feb 14, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Patsies in 2009

Patrick Chung (i’ll give em that, although KP and Rolle are better)
Ron Brace (alternates between starting, backing up, and being inactive)
Darius Butler (Lost his starting job after two weeks this year)
Sebastian Vollmer (Very good/great player so there’s one)
Brandon Tate
Tyrone McKenzie
Rich Ohrnberger
George Bussey
Jake Ingram
Myron Pryor
Julian Edelman
Darryl Richard

Besides Volmer, did they get anyone better than we drafted in 09? Or did so exceptional?

Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden

by Willgfass on Feb 14, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

actually Vollmer kind of stinks

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Feb 15, 2011 7:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Even better

I just assumed he was good because he made 2nd team all pro so (shrug)

Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden

by Willgfass on Feb 15, 2011 8:05 AM EST up reply actions  

4 starters in that draft. Maybe they are not superstars

But getting 4 guys that are starting and still in the league has got to be pretty good IMO. And all these guys are still young and improving. I think it’s a pretty good draft

Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 5...

by wangstu13 on Feb 12, 2011 7:08 PM EST reply actions  

agree

give TT and KP one more year and there stars, u can throw mario in there 2

Dear FOX...
Fire Aikman please

by 56THE REAL LT on Feb 12, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

2008 has been a very good draft

with the potential to be an outstanding one. Sure, the proper initial grade of a draft is given after 3 years. But it is not the final grade.

 Mario’s arrow is still pointing waaay up, Kenny’s too. I just look ay Osi’s performance in the second year after surgery and think of the upside we have in #21. He is young, and hopefully on the long term mend.

TT is an outstanding, tough, press-type corner. Pro Bowl material if used properly.

Goff I dont think will ever be a standout LB, but thats ok. I am very satisfied with the 2008 draft at this juncture.

"Just when I thought you could'nt be any dumber, you go and do this... AND TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!!

by tommy d. on Feb 12, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It's been coming through loud and clear :-)

"Just when I thought you could'nt be any dumber, you go and do this... AND TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!!

by tommy d. on Feb 13, 2011 9:14 AM EST up reply actions  

But would they start elsewhere?

I see this argument a lot. The guys are starting so they must be good. The problem is they might be starting by default. They simply suck the least. Goff is a prime example. Yes he was our “starting” MLB this season, but he wouldn’t start for the majority of teams in the league. He must have played the fewest snaps of any “starting” LB in the league that was healthy all year. To me you can’t evaluate the players only in comparison to the other players on this team. Reese sucks at evaluating LBs so comparing the group of mediocre players against each other is foolish. You have to evaluate each player against the rest of the league. If the guy is a starter is he on par with the majority of starters in the league, below par, or in the top tier. Of the 3 starters (not 4 because Ham is not a starter) only 2 are on par and one is well below par. There are none in the top tier from 2008.

by bigblue777 on Feb 14, 2011 9:02 AM EST up reply actions  

So wait
The guys are starting so they must be good. The problem is they might be starting by default. They simply suck the least

This is a “valid argument”, but we can’t include Manningham simply because there are better players in front of him? Can’t the reverse be true? He’s not starting because we have better players?

He must have played the fewest snaps of any "starting" LB in the league that was healthy all year.

Please find proof of this

Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden

by Willgfass on Feb 14, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Right here on BBV

Problem is, Goff played just 700 snaps, 34th in the league amongst middle linebackers.

http://www.bigblueview.com/2011/1/19/1943307/positional-reviews-linebacker-where-oh-where-have-the-great-ones-gone

There are only 32 teams in the league. Some team actually had two MLBs take more snaps than Goff. If that doesn’t define pathetic I don’t know what does.

As for Ham, he isn’t a starting caliber player no matter how you slice it. It isn’t just about the talent in front of him. We needed to draft Nicks because Ham wasn’t starting material. He got plenty of opportunities to be the starter this season due to injuries and he proved not up to the task. He can be an explosive player due to his athleticism. That explosiveness can lead to some gaudy stats, and he can be good for home run shots as a third receiver, but he has proven time and again he lacks the consistency to be a starter in this league. Hagan came off the street and was a more reliable option.

by bigblue777 on Feb 14, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

No
As for Ham, he isn’t a starting caliber player no matter how you slice it. It isn’t just about the talent in front of him.

No, not at all

We needed to draft Nicks because Ham wasn’t starting material.

No, we got him because he was injured all in 08, we had no idea if him, or Steve Smith, or Hixon were going to step up, so we got Nicks to provide as many options as possible.

He got plenty of opportunities to be the starter this season due to injuries and he proved not up to the task.

Not up to the task?? How do you come to that conclusion in spite of all the stats and watching him?

He can be an explosive player due to his athleticism. That explosiveness can lead to some gaudy stats, and he can be good for home run shots as a third receiver, but he has proven time and again he lacks the consistency to be a starter in this league.

So DeSean Jackson is a bum?

Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden

by Willgfass on Feb 14, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Desan jackson is a punk

Dear FOX...
Fire Aikman and replace him with Strahan please

by 56THE REAL LT on Feb 14, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Not up to the task?? How do you come to that conclusion in spite of all the stats and watching him?

Because like I said stats are nice and all, but when the team needed to depend on him he couldn’t get it done. We could not keep drives alive or win games with him starting. He’d run the wrong routes, pull up short of the sticks, etc. A flashy big play here or there is great when you are a situational third receiver. It’s not good enough to be a starter.

by bigblue777 on Feb 15, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

So DeSean Jackson is not a starter?

Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden

by Willgfass on Feb 15, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Meriweather is a bum

that is all

Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden

by Willgfass on Feb 12, 2011 7:26 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

rec'd

Dear FOX...
Fire Aikman please

by 56THE REAL LT on Feb 13, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm glad that there is some open discussion about Fewell....

b/c it’s needed in any debate about this Defense.

TT is a good corner. He’s a better man/press CB than an “off/zone” corner. However, he’s not always being used as such….as pointed out.

Spags came in Day 1 and told Cweb to forget all that Zone Crap they were doing previously. Get back to being a press corner like when he was in LSU.

the Nickel package is basically 3 Safeties….and that’s gotta change. If you don’t trust Ross, than go out and get someone b/c the Nickel Corner is no longer a “specialist”…they’re essentially the “12th starter”.

And I think when you are asking your Safeties to play so much in the box (LB and blitzing), AND than you put them in the slot on J. Nelson….well guess what…bad things are going to happen. Let a Corner match up in that slot like that.

FREE PLAX

by andiamo708 on Feb 13, 2011 4:14 PM EST reply actions  

Good evaluation

Cannot cry about a late round reach though. Why can’t the team draft a good LB? At least Giff got some playing time.

by lueeluee on Feb 13, 2011 7:33 PM EST reply actions  

Drafting for value vs. need

This is where Reese has gone wrong. Guys like Sintim, Woodson, Kehl, Tracy, Bomar, Beckum were drafted because the Giants had them rated as deserving a much better draft slot. But there was never any thought as to how they would fit the team. Sure, sometimes you draft a guy just because he fell. But you have to have a plan or use for him. Beckum is only a good pick if you are going to throw him the ball.

by ct17 on Feb 13, 2011 11:11 PM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Big Blue View is the best independent site on the Internet for year-round news and discussion about the New York Giants.

Community Guidelines

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Ny_small
Alexander Christian
Small
Video I made of the Giants run to Superbowl XLVI

Recent FanPosts

Taylorlawrence21_small
The 53 Future Super Bowl Champions
Snv30403_small
35 years ago today... who had the better set list?
Small
Top 100 Pete Prisco
New-york-giants-eli-manning-bleeds-after-being-sacked-and-hit-the-head-new-meadowlands-stadium-new-jersey_small
Rolando McClain
Small
ELI's SNL TD dances in Madden
Small
Zak DeOssie Talks Super Bowl Ring
Small
NY Giants Run of Champions 5K Race
Eli-manning-banana_small
NY Giants Wallpapers for You 2.1
310467_150290438405726_136978946403542_166605_699112270_n_small
Don't ban me bro!!!

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Get Your Giants' Gear

160x600_ny_giants_medium


Editor-In-Chief

Ed_valentine_2_small Ed Valentine

Editors

Small brisulph

Authors

Mike_farley_small Mike Farley

Meme2_small Sean Kerr