SB Nation New York Editor's Pick
Examining the Culpability of Jerry Reese
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 2:53 PM EST
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PrintExactly what the title says this post is going to be about. Let's get at it. There's a couple different responsibilities that the GM has.
SCHEMES AND HOW WELL PREPARED THE PLAYERS ARE
Wait a second, no....don't think he's responsible for that. That's coaching. He's responsible for bringing in talent to compete. Moving on.
THE DRAFT
A big focal point for Reese opponents is Reese's track record for drafting. That includes philosophy and talent recognition. Let's talk about Reese's draft philosophy first.
The main argument against Reese is that he uses a BPA strategy, and gears towards a select few positions (DL), while completely ignoring others (OL, LB) and not drafting for need.
That notion is false. The whole point of BPA is to accumulate the most talent on your roster. The draft is ALL about potential. You do not go into a draft expecting immediate impact. If you do, then chances are, you are drafting in the top 10. And if you are drafting in the top 10, obviously something has been missing from your philosophy anyway. That's the reason why Atlanta gave up everything to move up to the top 10. That's why you see Cam Newton and A.J. Green and Julio Jones having a big impact, but not too many others.
This thought process, that most of your draft picks will not have an impact on your first year is a big indictment on drafting for "need." You only draft for need if you are in the top 10, because every single year, a team's needs change. Players step up, other players get hurt. Some develop....some don't. We'll get to this in more detail later.
If Jerry Reese had gone pure need, he would have taken Stefen Wisniewski, C or Kyle Rudolph, TE (LT was NOT a need because we had Will Beatty set to become the starter). What Reese DOES do is go BPA for the first three or four rounds, and does address "need" in the later rounds by taking raw, developmental prospects that could blossom into starters if coached up properly over those that are more "NFL ready" but have limited upside. I've shown that philosophy in this post.
To back this assertion up, lets look at one particular criticism of Jerry Reese at this year's draft. Reese was lambasted for not selecting an OL in the first 3 rounds. Jerrel Jernigan, in particular, has been a sore spot for people. Some look at it as a wasted pick, as well as Marvin Austin. They say we should have taken an OL after that. Funnily enough, though, nobody ever gives me a name of an OL that the Giants could use that was drafted. So lets do it:
1st Round
9) Tyron Smith, Cowboys - has been very effective. Drafted in the top 10.
15) Mike Pouncey, Dolphins - decent, played a ton at G instead of C, though.
17) Nate Solder, Patriots - 2nd string T. Not impressive
****************Prince Amukamara****************
21) Anthony Castonzo - injured and ineffective. Ask Curtis Painter/Dan Orlovsky if they feel OK behind that OL.
23) Danny Watkins - mostly played as a backup before getting starting role, has given up pressure. Old.
25) James Carpenter - one of the worst RT in the league.
28) Gabe Carimi - beaten like a rent mule before getting injured.
32) Derek Sherrod - couldn't crack starting lineup on poor GB OL
2nd Round
14) Orlando Franklin - unimpressive, made rookie mistakes, but some upside
16) Stefen Wisniewski - has been playing well for the Raiders at C or G
17) Benjamin Ijalana - had to move to G, been unimpressive and injured
**************************Marvin Austin**************************
23) Rodney Hudson - Too skinny, backup.
31) Marcus Gilbert - Forced into starting role because of injury, has been Diehl-esque.
3rd Round
11) John Moffitt - Large contributor to statistically the league's worst OL. Has been atrocious.
12) Will Rackley - Demoted from Jacksonville's lineup after starting. Demoted, and was worst G in NFL in spot duty.
**************************Jerrel Jernigan************************
21) Jah Reid - Can't crack starting lineup
28) Joseph Barksdale- Impressive in spot duty, but still isn't starting caliber
4th Round
5) Clint Boling - Buried under depth chart for suckage when had chance to start
9) David Arkin - Montrae Holland starting over him. Yeah.
**************************James Brewer*************************
There you go. Quite literally, the only player that's been heads-and-shoulders better than James Brewer that we've had a chance to draft (yes, even considering he hasn't gotten any playing time) has been Stefen Wisniewski. We still would have had to give up Prince Amukamara for it. Wisniewski would also NOT crack our starting lineup as it stands right now. Only Tyron Smith would, but hey, whaddya know....he's a top 10 pick.
This stands true for linebackers as well, another point of emphasis. Not going to spend too much time here, but I'd like to pose a question. In the last 5 years, can anybody off the top of their heads, find a rookie linebacker that was really and truly effective? I can only think of two. Patrick Willis and Von Miller. Willis was the 11th pick and a once-in-a-generation freak. Von Miller was the 2nd overall pick. Miller is great pass rusher, but he has been exposed in coverage as much, if not more, than Jacquian Williams. Three big names that were linked to the Giants in the past couple years have been Rolando McClain, Sean Weatherspoon, and Mason Foster. McClain has been in trouble with the law, and is simply average. Weatherspoon is definitely a good player, but was on and off injured and a non-factor in his rookie year. Mason Foster has thus far been worse than any rookie LB the Giants have played.
Now lets take a look at some of the players that Reese has drafted. Already wrote about Reese's draft picks here. But that's a bit of a cop out. Reese's criticisms in talent evaluation for the draft have come in three different bubbles, his 1st round picks, his 2nd and 3rd round picks, and his late round picks.
1st Round:
Earlier this week, some people told me Prince Amukamara would be a bust because the Giants have a poor track record of 1st round picks in recent years. Here are the Giants' most recent 1st round picks.
Not really sure how the Giants haven't been successful. They've hit on 5 of their past 6, which is unbelievable. People will criticize Reese for Aaron Ross, but I'm not sure they realize that you simply cannot hit on every single pick, year after year, regardless of round. We automatically assume that being a 1st rounder automatically makes you a good starter in the league. They say you can judge a draft class in 3 years. That means the latest draft we can start analyzing is the 2008 draft. To prove my point on just how difficult it is to hit on a draft pick, take a peek at the 1st round of the 2008 draft
I see Jake Long, Chris Long, Matt Ryan, Darren McFadden, Jerod Mayo, Ryan Clady, Jonathon Stewart, Joe Flacco, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson, Dustin Keller, and Kenny Phillips as good starters. That is 12 hits out of 32 on the "easiest" round for finding talent.
2007 was even worse, with only about 10 or 11 hits out of 32.
Aaron Ross' career has quite literally been "hamstrung" and has shown potential, but never realized it fully, probably because he couldn't consistently get snaps. Jerry Reese should not be blamed AT ALL for his 1st round selections, he has been nothing short of incredible.
2nd and 3rd Rounds
This is probably where Reese gets the bulk of his criticism. So without further ado, here are his picks:
Steve Smith, Terrell Thomas, Will Beatty, Clint Sintim, and Linval Joseph in the 2nd round.
Jay Alford, Mario Manningham, Ramses Barden, Travis Beckum, and Chad Jones in the 3rd round.
Given the very low hit rate of the first round, the 2nd round is even worse. In the 2008 draft, I counted 9 decent starters, with only Brandon Flowers, Terrell Thomas, Jordy Nelson, Matt Forte, Ray Rice and Desean Jackson as being good players. So lets look at each of JR's draft picks:
Terrell Thomas - a year ago, had 101 tackles and 5 INTs. A clear starter for most teams.
Steve Smith - before he got injured, was a pro-bowler and a premier slot threat.
Will Beatty (hey look! he addressed the OL in the draft!) - finally showed his potential by starting this year and allowing only 3 sacks. He was NOT the problem on the OL.
Linval Joseph - Only his 2nd year, and is starting to become a force. Replaced Barry Cofield decently. Can't knock JR for this pick.
Clint Sintim (hey look! he addressed the LB early in the draft!) - Oh yeah, the poster boy for the Reese critics. Much had been made of him being the "square peg in the round hole" because he'd be more suited in the 3-4. Thing is, we don't know that. He didn't have much of a chance to contribute in his 1st year because he was a rookie. That was not JR's fault. His 2nd season was cut short abruptly by an ACL tear. He was rising in the preseason this year, taking over the primary backup spot from Kiwanuka, and taking some first team snaps as well. He destroyed his ACL again, and is probably done. Cannot blame Jerry Reese for that.
The third round is a bit more tricky. One could definitely say that Alford did not live up to the billing, but was a key contributor in the Superbowl year and as part of the DT rotation until he got injured. Say what you like about Mario Manningham, he had 944 yards and 9 TDs last year, numbers usually reserved for WR1s. Despite all we make fun of him for it, he had the highest catch percentage of our WRs last year as well. He has been less effective this year, but that can be attributed to Cruz's emergence as well as nagging knee and concussion injuries. He has undeniably been a hit.
As for Ramses Barden, the story here is injury and coaching. He has been injured throughout his career. When he finally got healthy this year, he hasn't been used in pertinent goal line situations. I'll attest that to Kevin Gilbride and Tom Coughlin, not Reese, though I will admit he has not lived up to his billing just yet. Beckum is a similar story. He has been underutilized, whether that is due to scheme or talent, I'm not sure. Either way, I'm close to admitting his bust status. Chad Jones, unless you are completely delusional, can't blame on Jerry Reese.
Therefore, out of 10 picks, I'd say Sintim, Barden and Beckum haven't panned out thus far, with Beckum the only "clear" fault of Jerry Reese in my opinion. So he has had a 70% success rate thus far. I dare anybody to go out there and find a better success rate...you won't. I've said this a billion times, and I'll say it again: you can't judge Jerry Reese in absolute terms, have to look at the success rates of other teams and compare.
4th round and beyond:
Zak DeOssie, Brian Kehl, Andre Brown, Phillip Dillard, Kevin Boss, Jonathon Goff, Rhett Bomar, Mitch Petrus, Adam Koets, Andre Woodson, Robert Henderson, DeAndre Wright, Adrian Tracy, Ahmad Bradshaw, Stoney Woodson, and Matt Dodge.
With these rounds, you look for depth, special teams, and developmental prospects. After the 3rd round, the sticking rate for players drops precipitously. Jerry Reese found DeOssie, Kevin Boss, Jonathon Goff, and Ahmad Bradshaw. Mitch Petrus looks very promising as well. I'd count that as 5 hits out of 16. That is not including Adam Koets who was invaluable last year in emergency duty.
That may not seem impressive, but its still in the upper echelon of the league. Considering 4 out of the 16 are starters in the league, and that boosts Jerry Reese's reputation even further.
As far as most Giants fans should be concerned, talent evaluation should be considered a massive strength, and a competitive advantage the team holds over most of the league, not a criticism.
Despite all of this, I know Reese detractors have a few more problems with him. One criticism I've seen pop up from time to time is the injury situation.
Shouldn't Reese be blamed for drafting injury prone players?
That's a fair question if it were true. Da'Rel Scott and Mark Herzlich are the only two rookies that Reese has brought in with significant health concerns and Scott was a 7th rounder, Herzlich was a UDFA. Sintim never missed a game in college. Aaron Ross never had injury concerns. Ditto Steve Smith. Chad Jones was in a car crash. The Giants are usually very cognizant of drafting healthy players. So there goes that argument!
Another very large criticism of Jerry Reese is the lack of ability to form "a complete team". This question is a great segue into this next section....
FREE AGENCY
Free agency and capology are the final part of a GM's responsibilities. Jerry Reese has made it more than clear that he fills the team's "needs" for immediate impact through free agency. He uses the draft to reload and add talent, and completes the team in free agency. Only makes sense: Veterans know what they are doing. Rookies do not.
ONE DISCLAIMER THAT EVERYBODY SEEMS TO FORGET: YOU ALWAYS OVERPAY IN FREE AGENCY. ALWAYS. ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE COMPETING WITH ANOTHER TEAM.
So lets take a look at his free agent moves and his reasoning behind them:
In 2008, Fred Robbins unfortunately had to leave us. Knowing the strength of the defense was the line, he went to bolster the unit with Chris Canty and Rocky Bernard, addressing the main need. Canty was a very good player for Dallas. As a 3-4 DE, light on the stats side, but he helped Demarcus Ware and Jay Ratliff immensely. He had 5 PDs, 37 tkls, and 3.0 sacks. Bernard was a consistent pass rusher, garnering 55 tackles and 4.0 sacks as well.
Little did we know that over the season, Canty played with a torn hamstring and Bernard played with torn triceps. Once they became fully healed, they have been able to garner consistent pressure on the QB as seen this year.
Need....addressed.
In 2009, we had to last through the era of C.C. Brown and Aaron Rouse. We knew we were getting Kenny Phillips back, but the other starter would have been Michael Johnson. Most definitely the biggest need.
We went out and grabbed Antrel Rolle, who, at that point, was the best safety on the market. In 2008, he was ranked 15th of all defensive backs, according to FootballOutsiders. Arizona could not afford him, so we, knowing we had the talent to reload after a recent superbowl run. In 2009, Antrel had 4 INTs and was a much better safety than anybody else we had. Still might have been if he had a consistent scheme to work with and actually played safety instead of nickel corner or linebacker like he has.
Need....addressed.
In 2010, it was quite obvious that our biggest need was left tackle and center. After Kiwanuka and Sintim were injured, we needed an SLB. We addressed our left tackle situation with Will Beatty, whom we had been grooming for the past couple years. Guess what? He turned out OK. At C, we signed the best FA center in the market, David Baas. Jury is out on him because he's had neck issues. Hasn't been great in run blocking, but he has been good in pass protection. At SLB, we were able to sign Keith Bullock, who was serviceable. Not a long term answer, but Reese was able to find something. Finally, we also had a need for a punter. We know what happened. We know what Reese did. And we know how well his replacement has done.
Quite possibly, the only real question I've had with Reese is why he didn't bring in Stephen Tulloch at LB. I suppose he had faith in Jonathon Goff, which is justified. Also, it seemed as if Tulloch wanted to be reunited with Jim Schwartz, anyway. In any case:
Need....addressed.
If anything, this lends even more credence to the BPA philosophy in the draft. We can see how each year, our needs evolve. They aren't the same. Linebacker seems like a need now, but that's because Goff went down, and Boley has been injured. Suppose we HAD drafted Sean Weatherspoon, a good player, no doubt. What happens if we see JPP tearing it up for another team, like, Tennessee, and Osi and Tuck go down like they have this season? We'd be calling for Reese's job (not like we haven't been already...). With all the injuries to our CBs, can we really blame JR for taking Prince? At the time, CB wasn't a need at all. It is only through Jerry Reese's ability to create a complete team that we even have CBs to put out on the field right now anyway.
Let's also not forget about the other signings that Reese has made this year. We had plenty of free agents to sign from our own squad. Nobody talks about the fact that Reese had to deal with two different health issues - Steve Smith and Mathias Kiwanuka. He stuck to his guns and signed one, but not the other. He was ridiculed for his decision not to sign Steve Smith. He was villified. But at the end of the day, he was right. Kiwi has been awesome for us. Smith has been a failure.
Three other signings by Reese stands out.
1) The man with the big derriere: Kevin Boothe. A seemingly under-the-radar signing of one scrub amongst all the others. He's been arguably our most effective OL this year outside of Will Beatty. He's played both guard positions as well as center. He's been solid at all aspects. Win one for Reese, for keeping this gem.
2) Dave Tollefson. We could have easily let him go. We had JPP, Tuck, and Osi. We now see how important Tolly has been to the team. Great in spot duty, and has 4.0 sacks on the season.
3) Victor Cruz/Mark Herzlich/Henry Hynoski. All UDFAs (Cruz last year, the other two this year) that have come up big for the team. Cruz, especially. It is Reese's job to find and sign these guys, and while I doubt he knew what he was getting in Cruz, credit where credit is due.
Point is, Reese collects talent through the draft and addresses needs through free agency. He does not coach. He is not responsible for player injuries. He does not motivate the team. He does not execute the plays. Do we have a talented team? Yes. Even with the injuries that we have had, we hold our destiny in our hands. There have been two other teams with the injury situation we have this year: Jacksonville and St. Louis. Look at their records versus ours. The difference is the talent; acquired by none other than Jerry Reese.
There are a lot of places where we can place our blame for this season: Jerry Reese is hardly one of them.
FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.
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I love you
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
by nywins42 on Dec 22, 2011 3:11 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
<3
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
that would make him the opposite of JR
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
lol
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
just catching up to this; rec'd
mad dash holiday stuff, sorry I missed this when it went live
Now everyone will say Eli is in Bradys class. F*ck me
by PatNation85 on Nov 6, 2011 4:31 PM PST
<3
not bad for a Nets fan
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Dec 22, 2011 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
haha, thats definitely a compliment.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
Outstanding work BBI.
Anyone who doubts JR and reads this with an open mind has to come away with at least some appreciation and understanding for the job JR has done.
Highly recommended post, you should be proud of this one.
"We borrowed golf from the Scottish as we borrowed whiskey. Not because it is Scottish, but because it is good." Horace Hutchinson
No more score predictions...
thanks tommy, spent a good amount of time on this one. I am proud of it.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you Thank you
I’m so sick of this fire Jerry Reese bullshit bandwagon. Its just a bunch of whiny fans looking to place blame at one of the few that doesn’t deserve it. Wahhhhhh we don’t have a Pro Bowler at every position wahhhh.
same.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
rec'd
funny how this post completely destroys that other fanpost condemning JR
I'm down for people that try to reason or explain why JR "fails" as he did, so mad respect to him.
I hate it when people make assertions like this without backing it up.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Reese is in the clear
There is no doubt when compared to other GMs, in the realm of a GM’s duties Reese has been successful.
Let’s see what this team does to finish 2011, and then evaluate what coaching changes need to be made and player personnel changes that need to take place.
2012 is set up for great success with a full offseason for the 2011 rookies and a slew of players coming off IR along with a new Defensive scheme.
Exactly.
Coaching, motivating, and keep players healthy is not Reese’s job.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
Reese
…supplies an amazing level of talent through the pipeline. TC is a very good coach during the game-icing the Dallas kicker was vivid proof of that. The problem is the coordinators. Quinn is terrible, Gilbride is saved only by Eli finally developing into a top 4 QB, and Fewell is awful.
Fire the guy who hires the coordinators, Fewell, and Quinn. Get an heir apparent (Spags?) in here. Keep Gilbride so Eli is comfortable.
And for *&^$s sake, have Webster, Ross, and Prince cover the number 1,2, and 3 receivers respectively, with Grant and Rolle on top, while sending 4 DL and 1 LB after the QB. Keep it simple.
I agree 110%.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Awesome work BTW
Very nice break down. You should be proud.
Williams, Hynoski, Herzlich, Sash, Cruz, Bradshaw, etc….that’s a lot of bang for the buck considering where they were picked/signed.
Coughlin
is the guy who hired the Coordinators and if he goes the entire staff goes. Gilbride will not be here if Coughlin is fired. And I honestly would have no problem with that since he hindered ELi’s developement for many seasons. Eli is successful this season is DESPITE Gilbride. I would love to see what a really great offensive mind would do with Eli.
Gillbride is the least of our problems this year
I have a ton of problems with Gillbride’s playcalling, his lack of imagination. However, our O-line has been pretty bad run blocking and struggles pass blocking. Yet our Offense has carried this team all year.
If we had a Defense that was even middle of the pack we would be 9-5 easily. Our Defense is terrible that’s the big problem this year, if the O doesn’t play well we loose.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 23, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
I dont disagree
Just pointing out that if Coughlin goes Gilbride goes.
i like coughlin
but let’s not overvalue the icing the kicker play. coaches do that all the time. not exactly rocket science
Good stuff BBI
Lol One hell of a “coincidence” too. Of all the people to wanna throw off a blimp, Reese definitely shouldn’t be one of them
"The Giants defense has managed to make the Matt Moore look good and Tom Brady look bad in back to back weeks. Go Figure. " - James Brewer
Yeah we're weird like that
Yes I think JPP needs to start.
No I dont care about the nuclear butt hurt this would cause Osi
It was a coincidence ha. I started this yesterday.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Eli Manning wasnt Reese's pick
you left Sean Lee from the LB section, but im sure that was a simple lookover right wink wink
and Clay Matthews Jr
who was a pro bowler his first year in the league
Clay Matthews Jr is a 3-4 OLB. That's closer to a 4-3 DE than a 4-3 LB.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
look he's an LB
lets not play games, cuz I can keep on going on successful LBs who entered the league.
OK, go for it. You can go ahead and use him as an LB, despite him having completely different responsibilities
Show me who else, as a rookie, was effective as a linebacker. Brian Cushing would be another one, you would think, but he took steroids, so that takes away from it.
My point was that the number of rookies at that position that don’t play well VASTLY outnumber the rare exceptions that make an impact on their teams that same year.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Rookies at ANY position rarely make an impact at the NFL
that’s not fair to make that assertion. The fact that Clay Matthews came up AND made the pro bowl is amazing.
It is....that's my point, mate. you nailed my point, completely.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
I didnt nail any of your point
the fact of the matter is that none of these LBs play show any sign of greatness, we’ve already seen in the couple of games they played their high ceilings and Im throwing Jon Goff into that mix
When I saw Victor Cruz play against the NY Jets in the third preseason game in 2008 I knew there was gonna be something special about the kid. Even though everyone on here was saying “its just against 2nd stringers.” These LBers just dont have it.
sigh. My point was that out of the thousands of LBers over the years, only a few make it to be impactful
Even fewer do it their rookie years.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
If thats the case "few make it to be impactful"
wouldnt it make MORE SENSE to put MORE PRIORITY on the LB position in the draft? hmmmmmmmm
The LBs are some of the least impactful players on the team defense in a base 4-3.
DL and secondary are much more important. Fewell came and switched it to a cover 2, which put more emphasis on athletic LBers.
And JR thought he had a good set with Kiwi, Sintim, Goff, and Boley.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
if he thinks these 4 LBs would cut it
then he really needs to go. None of these guys are an impact player of any sort. they are high ceiling backups really. You need to lose this notion that LBs aren’t important, even in the 4-3. Just take a look are our porous defense, for an example. If you think ours is a result of the coordinator. Look at TB, same 4-3, same bad personnel, same bad results.
According to PFF, Goff was the 2nd best LB in run defense in the country.
If you don’t think Boley is a good LB this year than I’m not sure what I can do to convince you otherwise. He is anything BUT a “high ceiling backup.”
Kiwi is a little deficient in pass coverage duties, but I’d like to think that’s ok for a SAM (thank you GhostDini last year for clearing that up), who is great at rushing the passer and at run defense.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
Ok. Well, I don't know what to tell you then. Agree to disagree
but based on the eye test, Goff is a beast against the run.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
according to footballoutsiders
he’s middle of the pack. I tend to believe them much more
shrugs.
Whatever floats yer boat.
I only used PFF in my argument to add a bit of objectivity to my argument. Its my belief that with Goff, we would have had a much better defense than the one where we have rookies coming in at LB.
Goff is solid, not spectacular. But he knows how to shoot gaps, maintain gap discipline, is a sound tackler, is quick to diagnose plays, calls out plays in the defense, and most importantly….is familiar with the scheme.
We won the superbowl with Danny Clark, tortoise Antonio Pierce, and Kawika Mitchell.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Danny Clark came in 2008
Reggie Torbor became the 3rd LB when Kiwi got hurt. But your point still stands.
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
I stand corrected lol my bad
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
its all good
Your point is still proven. Clark and Torbor are no where near superstars
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
according to footballoutsiders
he’s middle of the pack. I tend to believe them much more
overall Goff is middle of the pack .Run support is top of the pack . if u can prove otherwise ,would love to see it.
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Jacquian Williams,...Maybe .. Sadly this has been modified.
You can't believe everything you read..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
This is the equivalent of saying
Its highly unlikely that you’ll win the lottery, so we better buy more tickets to increase the odds
The statement itself is incredibly flawed logic
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
Obviously you just want the GM job
When I saw Victor Cruz play against the NY Jets in the third preseason game in 2008 I knew there was gonna be something special about the kid.
Are you kidding me? Did you also predict that Cruz would break the franchise’s receiving records? You didn’t and don’t know anything about evaluating college football players transition to the NFL, Let the real GM do his job and sit back and shut up.
corps
nygmen123: Again, without Vick or Maclin, or Cromartie. Injuries don't seem to bother them. They just bring in guys to make plays
nygmen123: Stopped the Pats on the first series. Planted Brady twice. Guess what gang? This team isn't quitting. Or making excuses.
Simms-McC: Yeah -- I wish the Giants were more like the Eagles
nygmen123: In intensity and fight? Right now, so do I.
EAGLES LOSE, 38-20.
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 22, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
not every position
needs to be or can be filled with greatness. Reese has taken the direction that LBer will not be a top priority. DE and DB were top priority for Reese.
There is a salary cap that prevents teams from loading up at all positions. This is not the Yankees or Redsox.
makes you wonder
WHY KIWI IS PLAYING as a 4-3 LBer!?!?!?!?
cuz he's pretty good at it
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
He is ok
at it but the position does not showcase his best skill sets. It is a waste for him to be there. He is only there because PF had dreams of this NASCAR lineup that has turned out to be nothing but a pipe dream!
Kiwi was a LB WAAAAAAAY before Fewell was here
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Actually that part was in reference to someone calling me "drunk"
because I disputed his claim that we haven’t had success with first rounders in recent years….so I decided to go back to Eli Manning. In any case, if you want to dispute Reese’s own picks, he still hit on 3 out of 4.
Also Sean Lee was never linked closely to us, and didn’t do anything spectacular his rookie year. He’s great now, but not back then.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Great is a radical overstatement of Sean Lee
He’s OK, but on way too many plays, of the Boys games I watched, he’s running guys down, not forcing the action. JMHO he’s a moderate improvement over what we have in Goff and Boley.
I’ve Come to believe that the LB as we learned it in the 70’s is going extinct. College is adapting and we’ll see new LBs better able to cope with the modern rules. More guys like Steve Atwater, or Chad Jones (who I suspect was supposed to fill the Deon Grant role with a lot more power and speed).
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
it was Acorsi's pick
but here’s the thing. Acorsi was on the radio recently and said that he went to reese and told him to find a QB in the draft because he didn’t believe there was one on the current roster to win a chip. Reese told him that he already had one. Eli Manning. Reese told him he should go see him play himself, to which Ernie agreed. And the rest is history.
I got banned from Jests Blog for saying Chad Henne has better stats than Mark Sanchez. And they think they're the big brothers in this town? LMAO try again little sisters!
Let's Go Giants!!!!
Heard that same interview
I didnt know JR was that big a factor in getting Eli
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
exactly...same here
in fact, to be honest with you, I could have sworn I’d heard somewhere that he was against picking Eli. Or maybe he was against trading so much for him.
I got banned from Jests Blog for saying Chad Henne has better stats than Mark Sanchez. And they think they're the big brothers in this town? LMAO try again little sisters!
Let's Go Giants!!!!
JR was abig factor in all those drafts
The big factor in the drafts that JR gets credit for is actually Marc Ross he actually found JPP
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
As it should be
If JR is doing it right, he’s grooming his staff and letting them do the leg work
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
when we got a douche canoe like Fewell running the D
i’m not sure how anyone can complain w/ what Reese has done.
Fewell is even making KG look good.
All in all, good job, but so unnecessary to actually have to defend this man….it’s bonkers to me.
Fire Fewell
I thought it was unnecessary as well, but this apparently this site doesn't think so.
I got a little pissed off when people started calling Prince a bust. That probably did it.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Wow! How many douche canoes are working for this team?
Pretty soon they’ll be able to put together an entire fleet of feminine hygiene inspired vessels.
We’d be the NY Douche Buccaneers!
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
Yeah they could compete in a Crewing event...Team Douche Canoe....
“Douche Canoe is in the lead…They are squirting something from bags with a long plastic nozzle..Buck: :”They are producing a wake behind the boat !!!..Troy I’ve never seen that ever !!"..Troy: “Well they really came up with a interesting wrinkle here..I think they have this win in the bag”..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
Epic funny...
HA
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
you forgot Troys Gigglezzz
Troy : “Well Joe, I just dont see how.. ::::gigglez::: the Douche Canoes can even compete in this race… I mean.. I just :::gigglez:::: When I was QB of the Cowboys………”
Giants are young, and injured... and loosing.
So we are not throwing Reese from the Blimp then?
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 4:18 PM EST reply actions
No...his body won't make it onto the blimp...
they are tearing it apart right here on the interwebs
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
fair enough, I think I see the mob on its way now
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Not yet..The fart blimp is already booked in 'Coach'...
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
first round misses
Sorry to break the news,a first round pick should be an IMPACT player.Is Ross,no is Phillips,no is KIWI ,NO NO NO
I hope you read my post because that is untrue. Look again, in previous drafts its shown that
half to more than half of first rounders don’t end up making the cut. It’s a good draft for you if you end up getting a starter out of it. You can’t just look at it and say, oh Kiwi and Phillips aren’t probowlers so Reese sucks. It doesn’t work that way.
I also said that Ross was not a hit. I don’t understand why people keep saying that I said he was.
Not really sure how the Giants haven’t been successful. They’ve hit on 5 of their past 6, which is unbelievable. People will criticize Reese for Aaron Ross, but I’m not sure they realize that you simply cannot hit on every single pick, year after year, regardless of round.
I said right there that he wasn’t.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Wasn't Ross an impact player in his first year?
then in 2008.?
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
1. Ross (no)
2. Kiwi (no) He is also being missed used .Reese’s fault!! Right?
3. KP (was) Was , got hurt and has been missed used since.
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Jacquian Williams,...Maybe .. Sadly this has been modified.
yes Kiwi is Reese's fault
He buys the groceries, the coaches just have to cook with what they are given.
The Giants will not win another Super Bowl with Reese as GM. He will waste what is left of Manning's career.
Kiwi's been good
so if that’s Reese’s fault, that’s a good thing
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Dec 22, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
If Kiwi was playing DE he would be great .
COACHS FAULT.
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Jacquian Williams,...Maybe .. Sadly this has been modified.
I agree, at DE Kiwi is great
However, who would you prefer the coaches put at LB over Kiwi? Has to be somebody on the roster now.
The Giants will not win another Super Bowl with Reese as GM. He will waste what is left of Manning's career.
Kiwi no?? KP was?? lol
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related
lol , I guess...
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Jacquian Williams,...Maybe .. Sadly this has been modified.
SAN FRAN
Who ever picks for the niners is the guy for me,very tough,physical players on both sides of the ball,something the Giants lack in a big way
Here is the link for San Fran's drafts over the years
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=4500&type=team
You can go ahead and tell me how San Fran did. Good draft in 2010. Complete crap in 2009 and 2008. 2007 was mixed because they got Patrick Willis and Ray McDonald.
They picked top 10 and 11 every single year. And their drafts aren’t better than ours.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
Harbaugh doesn’t take that job and all of those guys are BUSTS except for the few you mentioned. At the beginning of this season if anyone asked anyone who knew anything if the 49er’s drafts have been successful the answer would be NO.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
I'm going to add
They haven’t exactly done anything yet. Tons of teams pile up regular season wins, and then regress
Just look at TB from last year, plenty of people saying, Freeman great , Eli suck, TB going in the right direction, Giants suck, but here we are fighting for the playoffs, and they’re back getting ready for a high pick. Before we annoy SF lets let them make the playoffs 2 years in a row.
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
voice of reason
I got banned from Jests Blog for saying Chad Henne has better stats than Mark Sanchez. And they think they're the big brothers in this town? LMAO try again little sisters!
Let's Go Giants!!!!
WHAT?
Those guys were on the Niners last season, too. Were they a good team? NOPE. Alex Smith was considered a bust until Harbaugh came in and built an offense he could manage.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
by nywins42 on Dec 22, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Nope
Smith > Eli
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
The power of good coaching and leadership
Team Ghost: Manningham, Sintim, Beckum, Barden, JPP, Anvil, Ross
Tom Coughlin: "Respect all. Fear none."
Didn't Luther Vandross record that one?
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
Dear BBI, I also love you.
Intelligence and Diligence. Two things sorely lacking in sports discussion, and you’ve got them both.
It’s too bad that when people holding an emotional, irrational viewpoint actually cling to it MORE STRONGLY when faced with hard evidence to the contrary. It’s just the way people think. You’ll never reach the lemmings, but yours is the most valiant effort that could be made.
You are my BBV hero.
nygmen123: Again, without Vick or Maclin, or Cromartie. Injuries don't seem to bother them. They just bring in guys to make plays
nygmen123: Stopped the Pats on the first series. Planted Brady twice. Guess what gang? This team isn't quitting. Or making excuses.
Simms-McC: Yeah -- I wish the Giants were more like the Eagles
nygmen123: In intensity and fight? Right now, so do I.
EAGLES LOSE, 38-20.
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 22, 2011 4:40 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
TE
If JR is doing such a bang-up job why does Every team have a stud TE and some have TWO,and we have Travis always hurt Beckum,Jake too slow Ballard and Bear can’t block Pascoe.We haven’t had a good TE since Shockey.
Every team have a stud TE?
I don’t think that is true at all. 2011 Ballard is better then the TE’s on the following teams:
Bills
Dolphins
Ravens
Browns
Titans
Jaguars
Broncos
Chiefs
Oakland (lol)
Seahawks
Rams
Cardinals
Bears
Its also debatable if he is better then the following teams and the seasons their TEs have had so far in 2011:
Vikings
Redskins
Panthers
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
cmon this is being kinda homerish
ballard over?
the ravens ed dickson
the chiefs tony moeki -injured this year
the titans jared cook
these guys all have more potential than jake ballard
Haven't you been a person who criticizes Reese for not getting more productive players?
Now you’re criticizing Ballard for not having as much potential as other players even though he’s producing. OK.
Team Ghost: Manningham, Sintim, Beckum, Barden, JPP, Anvil, Ross
Tom Coughlin: "Respect all. Fear none."
by GhostDini on Dec 22, 2011 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Dickerson
and Cook are ok but lets not throw Ballard out as crap. Why is is that Jake can’t be better next year and has low potential? And Moeki is a very good TE, I’m just counting the 2011 season which he has not played in. Lets judge future seasons when they happen
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
i didnt say he was crap
Ballard could be somewhere in the 10 – 15 range of TE’s. I think for the most part the guys I mentioned could be pro bowlers.
could be? Is that we are debating now? how bout we stick with
how bout we stick with IS.
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Jacquian Williams,...Maybe .. Sadly this has been modified.
I think he is average to above average... already in the 15 rage
My point was that on the “every team have a stud TE” comment. I think you would agree how wrong that is.
Oh… Dickson and Cook, I highly doubt they are pro bowlers anytime soon
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
And where exactly do you stand
on the argument regarding DE. Why can’t the Titans, or any other team draft a DE as good as JPP?
I have an open mind, cause I’m old enough to have learned I make alot of mistakes, but the BS I’m reading from the naysayers doesn’t make sense and this argument stands alone in it’s….ridiculousness.
"We borrowed golf from the Scottish as we borrowed whiskey. Not because it is Scottish, but because it is good." Horace Hutchinson
No more score predictions...
OH THE P WORD!!
Like you know who has more of the P WORD!
We don't use our TE's a great deal in our scheme.
If we had belicheck’s scheme or sean payton’s scheme, maybe Travis Beckum is a star….who knows? They are used as a mostly secondary role on the offense, and mostly running routes to block people downfield.
Can you tell me how many teams have as good a WR corps as we do? Green Bay, Philadelphia, New Orleans, Dallas, Atlanta, and that’s about it. We use our WRs in the receiving game a TON more than a lot of teams, which is why its emphasized in the draft more.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
we HAVE to use our WRs a ton (we're forced to)
our running game stinks!
we are forced to throw to to WR's??
who else wud u throw it to….refrees…..cmon man…..u go to the TE when ur WR are not an option…..
or RB coming out of the backfield
the good old dumpoff pass
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
One year
But our dependence on WRs is for the whole TC era
Facts over fancy
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
And what about the positions, like DE, that JR has done a better job drafting than most teams?
THIS MAKES NO SENSE
"We borrowed golf from the Scottish as we borrowed whiskey. Not because it is Scottish, but because it is good." Horace Hutchinson
No more score predictions...
Thanks for the thoughtful analysis.
You’ve put together a good brief.
What with injuries/infusion of rookies, I withold final judgement re LBs
I do believe the OL should have been prioritized much earlier, perhaps as early as ‘08.The signs were there. Snee at OLT was a desperation move that never worked out in any more than a mediocre way. I’m thankful Eli hasn’t suffered the consequences. Beatty has yet to prove he can fill the bill.
As for Reese, IMO he’s a good GM and has done a good overall job. I do have a problem with the coaching, because I don’t believe that much of the talent JR has supplied hasn’t been utilized in ways that best suit their abilities.
Thanks for the kind words, gonz.
I have a problem with coaching as well. I think that’s where the problem lies.
As far as the OL goes, I think Reese has done a decent job. After 2007, he drafted Will Beatty to be the LT of the future. He draft Mitch Petrus to be the guard of the future. He just drafted James Brewer to be the RT for the future. He signed David Baas. He drafted Adam Koets, who did well before getting injured, and was going to back up Baas at C.
David Diehl stinks, but he was originally a Probowler at Guard, so there was no reason for JR to think that Diehl was going to be THIS bad. Kevin Boothe was re-signed just in case, but its on Gilbride and Coughlin to make the switch, not Reese. Snee and McKenzie were the best right side OL in football just a year ago….nobody knew that they would struggle like that. They aren’t too old in terms of OL age.
So he’s done quite a bit, but the OL situation has been bungled by Coughlin more than Reese.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
As I said, I saw it coming.
I went on the record for a for a few years now re the OL.
Turns out, I was right.
JR didn’t neglect it completely, but the steps he too turned out to be insufficient.
Your analysis neglects to mention that JR never took steps other than the draft to deal with the problem, the team’s biggest IMO.
Trading up in tne draft, trading, period. Whether either was possible, IDK, but certainly there seems to have been little recognition of its seriousness.
JR has been very good tactically as a GM; strategically, not so much.
I dunno, my good sir....I think the draft is the way to go.
Could he have done more in FA to help them out? Yeah…but we had more pressing needs on the defense to use the salary cap money. Reese quietly, and by quietly, I mean….extremely quietly, has gotten our guard of the future, LT of the future, and RT of the future through the draft. So we have youth at the position.
He DID end up going out and getting Baas. Perhaps it might have been too little. The OL in 07, 08, and 09 I thought were fine, so no major moves needed to be made. They started to show signs of decline in 2010 with the left side, so Reese made moves to rectify that. Should he have done it sooner? Perhaps, but he was building towards the draft to replace them all along instead of fixing via free agency. Puh-tayto, Pah-tato in my opinion……
Was he a little late? Maybe…who knows.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
Line sucked in 09
The cracks were very obvious then. Not only that I think a lot of Giant fans were concerened about the line before then because even though there was a lot of success in 07 adn 08 with the line they were very thin so I remember a lot of Giant fans just wanted to add some depth.
The same critics that said JR was an idiot for not re-doing the line in 2007
But whoops we won the Super Bowl, and it was a strength in 2008 and 2009
Our OL isn’t up to Giants standards, it’s still better than most, as evidenced by our points scored.
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
I remember it well
primarily b/c i was in the same camp.
I also think you make a good point about FA b/c I think the Giants actually like vet FA’s @ C © O’hara, Baas
BUT…they did go out and get Baas this off season!
I was a fan of the OT’s too….but i’ll be honest, the guys i’ve liked recently; Bulaga, Carimi, Ijalana are either not impressing (although Bulaga did step up BIG time for GB last year) and/or on IR.
But still, McKenzie looks absolutely shot this year, and i think the Giants front office was lulled to sleep by his strong performance last season. They really shoulda seen this coming, especially w/ a guy who’s been known to have Back issues.
Fire Fewell
and another thing w/ this guy Baas...
let’s wait till this season is over b/c i’m sure we’ll actually find out what’s been wrong with him.
I mean, let’s be real, a neck/head injury is not something to overlook. and plus he was dealing w/ a knee earlier? or still is? idk. but he’s been a bag of injuries all season so i’ll reserve judgement on that guy if he can get healthy and redeem himself next season.
Fire Fewell
AND...
at the end of the day (Antrel Rolle voice)….can we really complain about JPP?
I know we could prolly complain about Prince, but again….i’ll wait and reserve judgement
Fire Fewell
I honestly think you can't really get on Prince.
Injured foot, 3rd ever game, the whole shebang.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
"JR has been very good tactically as a GM; strategically, not so much"
Excellent point blue . . . After 5 years my opinion of JR is he’s an excellent scout but has struggeled as a GM.
I think thats why there is such polarizing opinions of him amongst Giant fans. He obviously can recognize talent, especailly at the collegeat level but it seems like some of his aquisitions do not fit the Giants system and his FA track record is very mediorce.
Hmmm I guess you think most GMs should be fired
as the Giants have been better than most teams during JRs tenure
Many of your criticisms of the GM really point to firing the coach.
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
So the coach should change everything he does to fit what the GM brings in? Or should the GM bring in talent that fits what he coaches do?
The Giants will not win another Super Bowl with Reese as GM. He will waste what is left of Manning's career.
there’s a reason why coaches are fired nilly-willy every season in this league, whereas its big news if a GM is fired.
There’s your answer. The coaches that can coach up the talent on the team the best are the ones that stick.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
firing the coach is stricly a political move on the GM's part
see the Indianapolis colts for the perfect example.
Owners should move in and fire the GM more often but except for Jerry Jones there more hands off. Lest they be portrayed as meddlesome by the media. So your kinda making a false statement here.
The ultimate football chicken & egg argument:
What came first? The talent or the scheme?
It depends on the team
Giants have been a GM driven house since HOF G. Young took over our sorry pathetic mistake of a franchise way back when. It’s why Bill Parcells quit and no the ownership never says a thing about it. That’s just how it’s done here.
So for our team, if JR and TC have their annual talks, and JR says we need to open our TE position, cause I can’t make Anthony Muñoz rematerialize when we pick at spot 19, then the coach has to do it, or he should be fired.
Like it or not JR is TCs boss.
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
How did I make a false statement? Look at how many coaches are fired and how many GMs are fired....
Suppose the new coach we hire after this year wants to do a 3-4. Then what? We blame JR for drafting 4-3 personnel for the past 4 years?
Also, owners are an integral part in big decisions like hiring and firing…so they most definitely are involved if a head coach is fired.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Most owners fire a coach in consultation with the GM
Im fascinated by FO stuff (perhaps because so little of it is really known). But as a rule of thumb, owners understand that they aren’t football experts, but basically rich people. The GM is their de facto decision maker. That said, like the relationship between Ross and JR, the head guy has to make the decision.
No owner will or should cede that much authority to the GM, even Bellichick has to answer to Kraft.
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
"even Bellichick has to answer to Kraft"
I dont believe this for a second, I dont you do either, I think your just BSing on an internet forum.
The ultimate football chicken & egg argument:
What came first? The great talent or the great scheme?
?? You don't think Bellichick has to talk to his boss when he makes a mistake?
Or explain why his defense is so bad? Especially since Bellicheck makes a lot of the GM/personnel decisions?
You’re joking right?
Bill: you wanted to see me Mr Kraft?
Bob: how dare you make me waste money on Albert Haynesworth and Ochostinko? Explain yourself!!!
Bill: Please don’t fire me sir Mr Kraft!! I’ll do better next time.
Bob: You better better damnit! I’m sick and tired of these mistakes!
-——————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Your joking right Badshaw44? don’t be so dumb
The ultimate football chicken & egg argument:
What came first? The great talent or the great scheme?
BB is winning and he's been an incredibly stingy GM rarely spending on FAs
Ocho and Fatty were bargains and good risks, just the same, you think he just goes out and does what he wants and just says hey Bob I spent an extra $100 mill this year, crack out the checkbook big boy
Yeah after that conversation, they sit down and plan his retirement party.
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
If you don't think any coach (including Bellicheck) doesn't have to answer to his boss
You’re a moron.
Think you meant to reply one up
Its all good tho
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
some coaching hiring/firing decisions are not made based on talent on the field
I dont think the Todd Haley firing decision had anything to with talent on the field
I dont think bill polian threatening to fire jim caldwell had anything to do with the talent on the field
The ultimate football chicken & egg argument:
What came first? The great talent or the great scheme?
This is true
Haley was fired cause he seems unable to get along with people. That was the rap on him before they hired him, it was considered a high risk move.
But I’d say that few coaching decisions are based on personnel. But rather are based on the use of the personnel. It’s been shown time and again that the coach matters. You can’t say here’s the scheme find the players. That rarely works. It’s too hard. As you improve, you get less access to good players and then you have to get lucky that the right guy is available when you need him.
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
I never said JR should be fired not even close
A GM should be given time and fairly evaluated after 5 years. 5 Years into JR’s tenure the team is in worse shape. Now as you point out that could be a product of coaching and in now way shape or form should they fire JR he has drafted good players JPP and NIcks standout out and he’s had horrible luck with saftey injuries, draft pick injuries and the PLax thing made him totally have to revaluate things in 09 when the Giants seemed set at WR so maybe the Oline would have been adressed earlier had that whole thing not happened . He needs a shot with his own coach but the Giants have not been any better under JR, they’ve progessivley gotten worse. Again that could be on TC time will tell.
When a GM comes in when a team is starting from scratch he does not get shit for going 3-13 in year one, his success is measured as the years go on and where that team is 3 to 5 years into his tenure. Are they a playoff team a legit contender? If they struggle in year one and two but progressively get better make the playoffs the next three and compete for a title nobody says well that GM is mediorce he went 3-13 and 6-10 his first two years. They evaluate him by where the organization has gone.
Thats why I think JR does need to be evaluated a bit and I don’t agree with well the Giants have done better than most with JR. EA built that Super Bowl team not JR. In the five years since they’ve turned into a mediorce team so to me JR deserves some of the blame for that. I understand he could only do worse after year one but they’re about to miss the playoffs for the third straight year. Most GMs would be on the hotseat if that was the case.
EA was in the same exact boat 5 years in, 3 missed playoffs and some up and down teams and some average drafts. His saving grace was the Kerry Collins signing. Don’t Laugh without Collins they are no where near a SB in 2000 and that was a ballsy move by EA. EA got more time and built a championship team and hired a great coach. JR deserves the same chance, he’s done some good work in 5 years but he needs to improve in others.
His saving grace was the Kerry Collins signing
100% agree. With Kerry under center, Payton calling the plays, and using Toomer & Hillard as effective weapons, this team finally had a good enough offense to help out a great defense. Credit to Accorsi on a high risk but high reward player
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 23, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
Accorsi definitely had his ups and downs...definitely saved himself with KC
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
I think this is a very fair view to have.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Hey like your post you need
solid examples to have strong opinions. I really enjoyed reading your fan post. Good in-depth reading. I like long posts.
Snee?
u mean Diehl right?
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
thank you.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Extremely well thought out write up..
You can’t blame Jerry Reese…He selects what he feels is the best for the team..Would he have picked Pouncey if he had a snowballs chance in hell he would have…You take what you can get, bottomline..It might not be what you need, but what the hell else can you do?..The only weakness I see with Reese is FA..but every team in the league is weak with FA..Look at the Eagles…for example..The Dream Team became The Wet Dream..So I have no issues with Reese..and this was a very thorough write up…Bigblue..Kudos to you for taking the time to write up reality..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
Oh by the way...rec'd
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
thanks Bobbi.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely correct on FA
historically the teams that are best at FA are the ones that use it the least.
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
Being real...
I would have been PISSED if they didn’t grab Prince last year! PISSED!
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
haha I was there! I would've started throwing a temper tantrum
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
It was the opposite of the JPP pick.
I’ve already sent JR an apology for the things I said about his family when he grabbed him.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
by nywins42 on Dec 22, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So...
If Reese goes and picks another DE, WR, and CB in this years first 3 rounds will you be happy still? I don’t care about neighborhoods and BPA if you keep adding to a position that already has players. For instance going into this season we already had the great draft picks of Ross, Webster, and TT at CB. According you and all the Reese lovers, these are are part of the players that show just how great he is. However, he felt the need to add a fourth CB. How is that going to work out next year? Are we going to run a 4 DE, 4 CB, 3 Safety defense? Good luck with that.
Instantly disproved your own point about the CBs...
TT got hurt and is a FA. Ross is a FA. Webster and Prince will be here. One of TT and Ross (hopefully Ross) will not be. Thus Prince will have a larger role. See, JR has the capacity to think into the future that you do not. I wouldn’t be against a DE pick either, since Tuck and Osi are always injured (Thank god for JPP! Another “we didn’t need him” pick).
umm..
you mean the same Prince that held out, got hurt, and has stunk when he played this year? If that is the case then yup, he helped a lot.
oh, and if Reese hadn’t been a stubborn jerk he could have traded Osi in the offseason, probably for a 2nd round pick.
but he DID
He drafted Prince to fill the injuries he KNEW were coming at CB!! Don’t you see all the praise for keeping the CBs going in spite of the injuries? Don’t you see that Reese can see the future…..or is that only in relation to Prince….
The Giants will not win another Super Bowl with Reese as GM. He will waste what is left of Manning's career.
Exactly. Better safe then sorry. He took the best talent available, and it was a good thing he did
since we’re terribly thin at CB. Same with JPP last year….JPP sucked his first EIGHT games last year. We all wanted him gone. We had Osi and Tuck.
Well, now we don’t have Osi and Tuck, and NOW we see how taking a BPA player at a position that WASNT A NEED last year worked out.
I’d say quite well.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
So you are saying that Reese sucks at filling the CB position in spite of drafting a lot of them over the last 5 years? THerefore the Giants are thin at that spot?
The Giants will not win another Super Bowl with Reese as GM. He will waste what is left of Manning's career.
No the Giants are thin at that spot because we lost about 1.23 trillion of them to injury this year.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
I don't understand these guys....
"We borrowed golf from the Scottish as we borrowed whiskey. Not because it is Scottish, but because it is good." Horace Hutchinson
No more score predictions...
Sorry BBI I disagree with your reasoning
He drafted Prince because:
A) CB is one of two keystone positions on D, you need to replenish them constantly
B) when you have 2 heading into FA, you must have a guy trained ready to step in so that you don’t have to overpay a FA
C) He’s an excellent football player
All this injury stuff is nonsense and it distracts from the al logic. But you said it above. Just cause you may want a LB, doesn’t mean a LB is there that is good enough to take.
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
no doubt. I just got dragged into this "injury" thing because people kept saying
we had no “need” for a CB at the time of the draft, and this season was proof that needs develop and go away each season.
Also had to respond to this:
So you are saying that Reese sucks at filling the CB position in spite of drafting a lot of them over the last 5 years? THerefore the Giants are thin at that spot?
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, i know
And I think you know that I agree with you, but it distracts from the real argument
People criticize JR without making a case for the decisions that they see we’re bad. Instead it’s our CBs suck or our LBs suck. True or false you can only critique JR on what were feasible alternatives. I think you made that point very well, and too much of this thread ignores that.
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
exactly.
Antrel Rolle signing criticized because he isn’t playing well, but nobody considers the alternative. CC freaking Brown.
Everything ain’t so black and white…you can’t put it in absolute terms.
And of course I know where you stand on things, true, haha.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Rolle is why you don't want to sign FAs
He’s a very good player, but he’d have to play like a young Ed Reed to justify his salary. Aint no chance that is happening.
That situation (Safety) is one of my big criticisms of JR. We had a revolving door of bums out there. Michael Johnson had glimmers but really never was very good. They drafted KP, good, but it wasn’t enough to have one guy when you needed 3. He gambled and lost. Every GM has to make those decisions and they don’t all turn out well, but thats one where JR didn’t think far enough ahead.
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
I agree to an extent.
I think we got burned ’cause we lost Gibril Wilson and that dude that went to the Rams (forgot his name)….
And yeah, Rolle is a good example of why you want to build through the draft…tho at the time, Reese had more or less no choice.
Did he set himself up for that….somewhat, I’d say. He couldn’t have known that KP was going to get degenerative arthritis in his knee along with an ACL tear. Maybe he should have gone further and shored it up, alas, it is what it is.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Dude that went to the Rams
James Butler
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 23, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
that was it...thanks tawd
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
no prob
two Safeties that were the definition of “average” but played in the right system
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 23, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
I don’t think JR had an easy out on this one. You rarely get a high level S in free agency, and the teams philosophy prior to KP was to get more physical safeties. Hence the empty bucket.
I supported the AR signing as the best move at the time. But that’s what happens when the cupboard is bare.
Finally the Chad Jones thing was the 2nd stroke of awful luck (on top of KP). Not saying Jones would be great, but he was exactly the kind of player that would fit with our D.
I just try to stay balanced. I think JR is top 5, but look at Polian and the Colts this year. You make a bad decision (no backp to Peytn) and the whole tag goes to crap. That teams going to need a QB and a shrink.
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
where did i say that? show me?
Once again, i said JR saw into the future that TT and Ross were both FAs after this year and we’re likely going to lose one of them.
no he drafted Prince because
he knew they may lose CBs to free agency in 2012 and when a Top 10 player falls to you, why not take it?
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
logic doesn't make sense to JR haters
they wouldn’t hate him if they had any..
Where did I say Prince is helping right now?
You are grasping at straws. I said Prince is going to be a big help when we lose or let go either TT or Ross in FA. Or both.
The same Prince who was injured at his first practice...
Missed the abbreviated training camp along with most of the season. The same Prince who was thrown out there and expected to save a horrible secondary because he was a first round pick.
Prince had a bad game last week but I think he played well the previous week for someone who had a broken foot for the first 3 months of his rookie season.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
Its shizz like this that make me go
:(((((((((((((
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
I hope you read my post, because I addressed just that.
The needs for a team change every year. Therefore you do what you can to add talent to your team through the draft, than fix your holes via established vets in free agency.
We would be pissed if JPP were tearing it up with another team, while we had Sean Weatherspoon (a need pick at the time) and we had Tuck and Osi out like we had this year.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
he doesn't do a lot in FA because you overpay in FA.
so yes, he does do well…
Which team tears it up in FA
Just give me one team that hits on 75% or more of their FA signings. Your spending big money, the hit rate probably should be higher.
FA is a suckers bet, most top NFL GMs consider their last worst alternative. Its fans that bang the FA gong.
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
They may need to draft a CB in the first round
Ross and TT are free agents and may not get resigned
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Just like Kiwi
If TT is healthy, he’ll be back, Ross I suspect is gone. Sme team will overpay and we won’t
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
This is an awesome post I'm glad it got bumped to the front
Well done. I was surprised to see so many negative responses, then I realized its basically the same two dudes over and over.
haha thanks Opp
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
ha!
Matt Millen and the Corpse of Al Davis, angling for the GM job.
The unfortunate thing about debate today is that people go into it without any possibility of changing their opinion based on the facts they are presented. That makes a debate not worth having.
nygmen123: Again, without Vick or Maclin, or Cromartie. Injuries don't seem to bother them. They just bring in guys to make plays
nygmen123: Stopped the Pats on the first series. Planted Brady twice. Guess what gang? This team isn't quitting. Or making excuses.
Simms-McC: Yeah -- I wish the Giants were more like the Eagles
nygmen123: In intensity and fight? Right now, so do I.
EAGLES LOSE, 38-20.
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 22, 2011 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
That Kim Jong II is on ice..
Can we get him as a special teams coach??
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
A couple of things
I am a Reese supporter and love this article however no coach or GM is beyond reproach. And I think in some cases you are being very kind. Again I trust Jerry fully but I think your view is a little TOO rosy colored – although b/c of all the detractors I see why you went that route. Still here are some things that caught my eye.
1) Canty and Bernard have provided consistent pressure when healthy – Im sorry what? Yes they have been ok and added to a position of great need but constant pressure. The Giants interior has been weak all year and has been run all over – you can give all the blame to the young and inexperienced LB’s but the beef eaters have to take a hit too. Sadly they are soft up the middle and two guys who haven’t sniffed 5 sacks in any year they’ve been here really can’t be given credit for consistent pressure.
2) it may just be me but you seem to mention the weatherford move in the same year as the Bullock signing but that is one year later unless i misread.
3) Dave Tollefson – Dave works his but off and is hard to not like – but the truth is he is very undersized and gets mauled against the run and with the injuries to tuck and osi we have had to see him in far to many run situations. He is an average pass down end but really not a special back up at all (i know im gonna get flack cause he’s one of those guys everyone loves but the truth is he really is pretty poor against the run and ok in pass rush.
Other then this stuff for me i really liked this article and its why I trust in Jerry. Its clear LB is a need for us – so lets see if he addresses that via free agency this year. He should have another interesting decision coming up with T2 off inuries – should get a bargain deal but I think he comes back. We will see how much he believes in Goff post injury as well. If osi goes via trade id sent kiwi back to end – although he too is on a one year deal i believe.
Thank you for the feedback.
Perhaps I might have been a bit too lenient towards Canty….but Bernard is in for limited snaps and DOES provide consistent pressure. Whenever I see him, he’s getting penetration. You are right about Canty though, he could definitely be playing a little better than what he has. Though a lot of his doing is the reason why Joseph gets the penetration he does. None of ’em are Ndamukong Suh, but they do their jobs well enough to keep any guards from helping the tackles out against our DEs.
As for Weatherford, I forgot about him, and added him in as a quick edit, so I probably DID mess up putting him in haha my bad.
Tolly is undersized, and gets mauled….I think a lot of that is because he keeps getting put at DT and honestly I think he tires out. I do think he’s one of the “best” 4th string DEs out there though, LOL. He was much more effective when getting consistent snaps at DE, like in Washington and St. Louis early on.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
excellent. Unlike a few select individuals above...
I actually read all the words in this post, and interpreted their meaning. Some of the those guys should try that. 90.
Anyway, I’ve been pretty vocal in my support for Reese- I put him right in the top group of drafting GMs with Newsome and the like. I think his work in FA is middle of the pack in that he has given out some contracts that put him in a rough position later, and we are seeing that this year.
Keeping in mind I agree with your thesis, don’t take offense to me nitpicking a few points BBI
-let’s not detract from other young guys to make it seem better that we didn’t pick them. Weatherspoon was excellent his rookie year and is on the way to being the best 43 OLB in the league, maybe best 43 LB period (JPP still ends up a better pick as you said)
-Foster has been exposed in coverage as bad as any of our guys, but has been better against the run than any of our guys (except maybe Boley). Our problems vs the run start and end in the LB corps, foster would help there.
-I think it is safe to say Sintim is exactly a square peg to round hole deal. I know we didn’t get to see much due to injury, but what we did see was a guy who looked absolutely lost in space, and it’s a waste to take a guy like that when there are so many more even-front schools than odd-front ones. It’s the only thing he has done that really pissed me off. That’s asking too much of your coaches.
-finally… im sorry but tolly is terrible, he has not been good in spot work he has been a glaring weakness. He’s playing way more than any backup DE ever should (yeah i know injuries) but even then he’s sharing the field with Tuck and lining up at DT taking snaps from Canty and Joseph (better players by far) and getting his ass kicked consistently.
Otherwise, excellent post as always. The best thing about Reese is he has made mistakes, but I think being young and new at this he will learn quickly. He’s not at all set in his ways, and he’s a brilliant scout as you demonstrated. We are lucky.
Appreciate it, danny....and as far as this
don’t take offense to me nitpicking
lol, I don’t take offense to much of anything. No doubt, Weatherspoon is very, very good. Sean Lee is as well….I’d love to have them on the team. Was just saying that he probably would not have beat out Boley or Kiwi in his rookie year, therefore probably wouldn’t have a huge impact in his rookie year.
As far as Sintim….the same things have been said about Von Miller up to the draft and throughout the summer….until he started getting consistent playing time. Miller played in a 3-4-esque scheme, and he’s been doing what Sintim should have.
Tolly isn’t great, but he’s been putting in time at DT….that is Fewell’s problem, not Reese’s. I disagree with the way he’s being used completely. He’s great for spot duty.
And yes, Reese is not fool proof. I admitted as such, and he’s made mistakes. But he’s the last person to blame for our struggles.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't call Tollefson terrible
He is a 4th-string DE on our team. I think there are teams for which he would start right now. He comes up big from time to time. His role is to be adequate while giving the playmakers a breather, and I think he fills his role admirably.
nygmen123: Again, without Vick or Maclin, or Cromartie. Injuries don't seem to bother them. They just bring in guys to make plays
nygmen123: Stopped the Pats on the first series. Planted Brady twice. Guess what gang? This team isn't quitting. Or making excuses.
Simms-McC: Yeah -- I wish the Giants were more like the Eagles
nygmen123: In intensity and fight? Right now, so do I.
EAGLES LOSE, 38-20.
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 22, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
Has anyone brought up Dodge?
That was a BUST! Until someone brings him in next year and he is the best punter in the league.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
This idiot coaching staff ruined that kid..instead of just letting him kick the damn ball 70 yards..
They er, wanted him to be more directional…Let me tell you something..If I have a guy that can kick the ball a mile and a half..I don’t give a shit about ‘direction’..Just go kick the ball, kid..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
yeah it was longing for Feagles
not every guy can put it inside the 5 like Feags. They shoulda just had the kid cannon that ball…
nygmen123: Again, without Vick or Maclin, or Cromartie. Injuries don't seem to bother them. They just bring in guys to make plays
nygmen123: Stopped the Pats on the first series. Planted Brady twice. Guess what gang? This team isn't quitting. Or making excuses.
Simms-McC: Yeah -- I wish the Giants were more like the Eagles
nygmen123: In intensity and fight? Right now, so do I.
EAGLES LOSE, 38-20.
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 22, 2011 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure there is a such thing as a bust if you were drafted 221 overall
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Jacquian Williams,...Maybe .. Sadly this has been modified.
This is by far the best fanpost of the year!!!!...
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
by Bobbiblue on Dec 22, 2011 5:36 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I don't know...
Your “kiss my ass and I’m outta here” one was pretty good.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
ha, it was
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
hahaha that would go to one of yours, Bobbi.
You’ve always got the most hilarious shenanigans.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
That was last year..haha..They pulled that fucking thing right quick!!!
Oh Shit !!!..get rid of it STAT ..I’m proud of my own banning !!..I had one evil ‘OK’ button too many at the time…What a pain in the ass that is..I figured ah fuck it..I know there were alot of comments but never saw a one..So I came back nine months later..Hell they might feed me the evil ‘OK’ button again before the season ends..But I think I might make it this year..Two more games is all I need..But in retrospect, that fanpost was one hell of a way to ban my own self and go out on my terms…One to many evil ‘OK’ buttons for me..I say what I want..I don’t think (I hope) it bothers anybody..We’re football fans for crying out loud..Good ones too..That includes the football fan ladies out here..they know what they are talking about..and they enjoy bringing in their own funny stuff to the table too..I am not out here to insult or argue with anybody out here..I just finally got pissed off and left for awhile….The first person to welcome me back was DCgiantsfangirl..That made me very happy.. I enjoy the discussions we all have out here..The best fans of any sport are BBV fans..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
Come on...let's list some real busts...
Ryan Leaf…Matt Leinart…that chick that works at Starbucks around the corner.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
the brunette?
She filled out real nice…
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
That she did...
She seems uncomfortable when I tell her that every morning. Weird.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
Rex Ryans bust?..haven't seen it..but it looks big..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
JaMarcuss Russell
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
perfect...
Total bust…unless you have a persistent cough.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
oh snapppppppp
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
Reese will get a chance to hire his own coach
if Coughlin is fired after this season.
Team Ghost: Manningham, Sintim, Beckum, Barden, JPP, Anvil, Ross
Tom Coughlin: "Respect all. Fear none."
yes.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
So, who does he hire?
How do you employ the “best player available” when it comes to coaches?
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
no!
Don’t hire the best coach out there, hire for need.
nygmen123: Again, without Vick or Maclin, or Cromartie. Injuries don't seem to bother them. They just bring in guys to make plays
nygmen123: Stopped the Pats on the first series. Planted Brady twice. Guess what gang? This team isn't quitting. Or making excuses.
Simms-McC: Yeah -- I wish the Giants were more like the Eagles
nygmen123: In intensity and fight? Right now, so do I.
EAGLES LOSE, 38-20.
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 22, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
So, we're stuck with TC until his heart gives out?
I knew it would come to this.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
Hire for need is right
Young, energetic, able to handle NY media, understands and respects tradition of the franchise and the division, holds players and coaches accountable, is willing to make adjustments as needed, is creative, and has the personality/attitude that makes grown men of this generation want to follow him.
Team Ghost: Manningham, Sintim, Beckum, Barden, JPP, Anvil, Ross
Tom Coughlin: "Respect all. Fear none."
sounds like a good description
of the BCA
nygmen123: Again, without Vick or Maclin, or Cromartie. Injuries don't seem to bother them. They just bring in guys to make plays
nygmen123: Stopped the Pats on the first series. Planted Brady twice. Guess what gang? This team isn't quitting. Or making excuses.
Simms-McC: Yeah -- I wish the Giants were more like the Eagles
nygmen123: In intensity and fight? Right now, so do I.
EAGLES LOSE, 38-20.
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 22, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
First off, great post
I do believe this team has plenty of talent, it’s just not being used correctly. That falls on the coaches. Especially defensively. We have a young group of LB’s, key word young. There is still plenty of talent in our LB group, but they are young. So why are we playing a defensive scheme that puts so much focus on our young LB’s and their covering abilities? With the pass rushers we have, we should be playing a Greg Williams style D, bringing heavy blitzes and compensating for the inexperience of our LB’s. Like BBI pointed out in one comment, we won a SB with slow ass AP, Kawki Mitchel, and old ass Danny Clark. Why? Because we had a vicious pass rush, and a DC that let is loose. Not because our linebackers were phenomenal. JR covered the talent part, the coaches failed on the scheming part
completely agree
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
Bravo
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next."
thank ye, Larry
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
Your post is funnier than shit!!..The more I think about it the louder I laugh!!haha
Bigblueintervention brought us back to just football stuff..but your post, if anybody can’t relate to that then they haven’t gone to a game..I still LMAO!!
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
no doubt. Hilarious
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks Bobbi
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next."
by Larry Soprano on Dec 23, 2011 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
thanks John
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
alright i have a problem here.
(Idk if this has already been expressed, i apologize if this point has already been made.)
First off, In my opinion, reese has been above average when it comes to the draft. Players like Jpp, Nicks, Thomas, Bradshaw etc…make up for the ross’s and sintims. I have no complaints in the player’s he has selected. I do wish he would trade back and stockpile additional picks when possible (i think the draft value chart is significantly outdated and the difference (in value) between picks is far less than previous era’s due to the increasing competivness of collegiate football.) Regardless, this is just my opinion, and not a criticism of Reese. He is a good drafter.
As for free agency, this is my problem, and it’s somewhat connected to the draft. You state he fills immediate needs via free agency because vets>rookies. and this is true. However, and this is the problem, teams shouldn’t have glaring needs to fill in free agency. Besides the occasional retirement or serious injury, GM’s, like CEO’s in business, all have 1 year, 3-5 year, and 5+ models, strategies, and contingency plans. Reese, as a capable GM, should know the future vulnerabilities of his team and be prepared to deal with it in the draft and FA during PREVIOUS YEARS. You don’t need to be clairvoyant to see this team has/will lack depth on the O-line and LBerz. (Also, In previous years, safety was a huge concern.) As a GM, he’s been below average in addressing/preventing these glaring needs without using FA as a crutch. Instead he’s resorted to paying a premium in FA to provide a quick fix. Rolle, Canty, Boley (possibly Baas, too soon to tell) are all overpaid. Every now and again, it’s inevitable that your going to have to overpay in FA to address a need. My main complaint of Reese, is that he does this far too often, it’s almost like a tool for him. (i bet we overpay in FA this year for and O-line help too). By doing so, it puts pressure on our cap and prevents us from building through the FA. It creates a cycle, and we seem to be stuck in one.
I’m not expecting Reese to draft/sign stars or impact player for every need we have(or will have). But rather, accumulate decent, serviceable backups, so we aren’t stuck with glaring needs every FA that we must overpay players to address. Maybe that means he draft’s fewer projects or something, idk. But he definitely has room to improve when it comes to building this team in free agency.
I wouldn't say Boley is overpaid
And how exactly does Reese improve in building the team in free agency? He doesn’t build the team via FA. Like you said, he fills some holes with FAs. Like you said, he has to overpay (as does every other GM). I’d hardly say overpaying Rolle, Canty and maybe Baas is a bad track record. Would you rather he overpaid Boss to stay? Overpaid Steve Smith to be hurt? He got Bradshaw for pretty cheap.
abstractly, I feel you should build in FA, rather than use it as a quick-fix, or as a band-aid solution to your teams glaring needs (historically, it seems, Reese is stuck doing the later). It requires some foresight, and a ability to understand where you will be vulnerable in future years…. Maybe i expect too much, idk. But I don’t think you needed to be a clairvoyant to see the holes we had/will have in our O-line, linebacker, safety.
I disagree
Rolle, Canty, Baas and Boley were not viewed as quick fixes/1 year band aids. Reese signed those guys to build and help the team. Also, JR knows where the needs and holes are. You just can’t address every position with a marquee, highly paid FA or a high draft pick…
again,
i’m not expecting him too (stated in my first post). just to have serviceable backups. Even if backups still leave the position weak, it won’t cost us a season and we won’t have to resort to overpaying in freeagency.
Fine, if you feel, Rolle, Canty and Baas were signed to build this team and weren’t paid a premium because we had a glaring need to fill. So be it. In that case, he misjudged their talent (too soon to tell for baas) and still overpaid them.
Something else to consider
is that not all teams participate in FA to the degree we do. Some, like a JAX for example, are way below the salary cap and would never dream of adding a Rolle to their team.
It’s just another angle to consider, but JR has the luxury of constructing a team knowing he can spend in FA and remain near the top of the cap. So this opens him up to the “paid to much for this guy” criticism.
"We borrowed golf from the Scottish as we borrowed whiskey. Not because it is Scottish, but because it is good." Horace Hutchinson
No more score predictions...
The Eagles built in FA
And it didn’t turn out like they thought it would. Build through the draft, because once guys get that fat FA check, they tend to never be as good as they once were.
I'm not advocating for what the eagles did.
I probably shouldn’t of used the term “build in free agency”. Because people will misinterpret it as spending excessively, which is the exact opposite of my argument.
Rather, free agency, like the draft, presents and opportunity to “improve” your team. Whereas it seems Reese is stuck in a cycle where he goes out in free agency and tries to “fix” this team.
Yeah but in FA
you are dealing with a mere fraction of the amount of players as you are dealing with in the draft.
And many guys in FA have their career arrows pointing down, or are expected to be stagnant.
In the draft, you have alot more choices, and every single players career arrow is pointing up.
"We borrowed golf from the Scottish as we borrowed whiskey. Not because it is Scottish, but because it is good." Horace Hutchinson
No more score predictions...
I don't agree with that philosophy, but I can understand the sentiment behind it.
In this day and age, where players have one good season and ask for a massive contract, I think its imperative to build through the draft and reload your talent. Which is why I like the BPA approach. Just keep that influx of talent coming.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
ill try to rephrase my point without using "build in free agency"
poor word choice on my part, i’d appreciate any input you have BBI on the following:
Both the draft and free agency provide opportunities for teams to “build” and improve their roster. Earlier you noted how Reese seems to go BPA in the draft and gets veterans that fill NEEDS.
Essentially, building a team, is an economical endeavor. Teams all have to navigate the cap, so each team is trying to maximize value versus the set cap.
In the draft, going BPA seems to make sense because rookie contracts are set. So trying to maximize value against the cap often times means getting the best talent available. This is true as long as if your draft picks don’t force your hand in free agency. If you don’t balance need and value in the draft, your going to have to address need in free agency and may end up in a bidding war for certain free agents. If so, your BPA draft picks had a significant additional effect on your cap space and may no longer maximize value for your team.
Reese is a good GM. I especially like his ability to find value in the draft. But his strategy of BPA in the draft seems to be forcing his hand when it comes to free agency, resulting it contracts that are hurting this team. It seems like 1 year after the next, we go into free agency having to “fix” a glaring weakness. (my safe bet is this year we go after an offensive linemen) This is not efficient. You don’t maximize value vs the cap this way. Whether it means fewer strict BPA picks , or fewer draft projects (read: sintim, tracy). I’d much rather see some picks go to positions that have been weak. Or trade back and accumulate picks in order to address more areas. I love Reese with the normal allotment of 7 picks, but i’d love him more if he had 8 or 9. Especially considering how cheap rookie contracts are now. It’s a great way to maximize value vs the cap. Signing guys like Rolle, Canty (possibly Baas) to fill needs is leaving us cash strapped and isn’t an efficient way to maximize value vs the cap.
Trading back to get more picks.
This is a great point, and something I think (hope) JR gets comfortable with. Lets not forget in GM terms, he is a baby. The guy is young and has only run 5 War rooms. He will evolve, get better. If not, he better be damn good at staying the same.
But you state that his draft picks are forcing his hand in Free Agency. This is not the case because free Agency happens before the draft. JR knows the needs of the team and goes after the FA’s that he thinks are worth paying. Then the draft happens and he drafts BPA from his neighborhoods.
So balancing need and value in the draft, which he and other GM most certainly do to varying degrees, is not as pertinent as you state because Free Agency occurs before the draft on the NFL calendar.
"We borrowed golf from the Scottish as we borrowed whiskey. Not because it is Scottish, but because it is good." Horace Hutchinson
No more score predictions...
timing of the draft/free agency period
not important when evaluating his decisions over a longer period. If you want to evaluate a certain offseason, than yes take that into account. But in looking at 3-5 years of off season personnel decisions which comes first is just relative based on when you start the evaluation. Either that, or he just wings it every year. But i’d imagine, like any CEO or manager making personnel decisions, he has a 3-5 year plan in place. Now this long term plan (i’d imagine) is constantly changing and adapting, but it would serve as a basic blueprint.
moreover, if ur skeptical of timing being irrelevant
i could rephrase my point to:
if a GM wishes to follow a strict BPA draft strategy it is very likely they will make sure their teams glaring needs are are filled PRIOR to the draft. If not, they may run into a nightmare scenario during the draft.
Furthermore, unless the BPA always fills a postion of need, a GM will need to use FA to fill in the gaps. Either way drafting BPA can often times force your hand in free agency.
Looks like I agree with most of what you are saying
But every offseason a GM goes into FA with a list of needs and an idea of what they can spend.
Those needs, or a portion of them, are often filled in FA. Then that will influence your draft. That is what I’m saying.
Draft picks forcing your hand in FA doesn’t apply in the way I am interrupting what you wrote. Except maybe, the following year
"We borrowed golf from the Scottish as we borrowed whiskey. Not because it is Scottish, but because it is good." Horace Hutchinson
No more score predictions...
that's not reese's draft strategy.
Those needs, or a portion of them, are often filled in FA. Then that will influence your draft. That is what I’m saying.
Based on what Reese has said, his picks have exercised a best player strategy. If you take him for his word, nothing he does in Free agency influences who he takes in the draft. This is especially true in early rounds. (read press release of JPP/prince). In going BPA, he has to use the previous free agency period to fill glaring needs, or else he might be royally screwed if the BPA in the draft doesn’t also fill a need (which often times it doesn’t). This is why we sign guys like Boley, Rolle, Baas, Canty, Bullock prior to the draft… they fill an immediate need and let Reese draft BPA.
This strategy leaves you very prone to overpaying in free agency. People who say “you always overpay in free agency w/e” just don’t acknowledge the economics behind why that tends to happen. Furthermore, it doesn’t have to happen. It happens because specific players can provide additional value for certain teams who have serious need. This additional value is realized in the contract they sign with the team. If reese balanced need and bpa in previous drafts, the team MAY (no certainty here) not have as many glaring needs. Then, they won’t have to resort to overpaying in FA and this is more effective at maximizing value vs the cap.
Free Agency pick ups, or lack thereof,
do influence a draft. BPA I know, and I agree that is how JR approaches it. We all know this. But just look at who his BPA choices are early in a draft. It is not a coincidence that they also coincide with his the positions he puts more value on.
So that means while it’s BPA, JR is influenced by other factors. Like importance of position, or what areas of need were or were not filled in FA.
I get the impression, at this point in the conversation, that you don’t agree that what he did in FA affects how he drafts. I’m sure it does. To what degree…. I dunno?
The rest of your thoughts are very interesting and get me thinking about big picture angles, which I enjoy as much as anything in football.
"We borrowed golf from the Scottish as we borrowed whiskey. Not because it is Scottish, but because it is good." Horace Hutchinson
No more score predictions...
I get the impression, at this point in the conversation, that you don’t agree that what he did in FA affects how he drafts. I’m sure it does. To what degree…. I dunno?
I know Reese isnt a dummy. If he isn’t able to sign a veteran in free agency to fill a glaring need, He would probably draft someone, and just label it a BPA pick. Who could argue? He’s the boss. With that said, it’s apparent he makes a strong effort to fill our teams needs in free agency and not in the draft. (Rolle, canty, boley,) This year, he gambled significantly and didn’t take a center, waiting till free agency to get baas. Even coughlin, prior to the draft, said they had to get a center. So……ya, i think reese realy likes to draft BPA, and makes a significant effort to use FA to fill needs.
As for drafting on positional value…….this is something I LOVE! Maybe reese does this, maybe not. All we have is his word, and he says he goes BPA. Also, drafting Kenny Phillips would conflict with any draft scheme based on positional value. But yea, I’am all fall drafting only QB’s, DE’s CB’s, WR’s, or LT’s in the first round. Seems simplistic, but its a winner.
wow i must be drunk...
But yea, I’am all fall
fail….
But yea, I’m all for drafting only QB’s, DE’s CB’s, WR’s, or LT’s in the first round. Seems simplistic, but its a winner. (of course, you must be willing to trade back or up depending on the situation)
LOL I must be drunk. :-)
It’s fun examining his drafts, philosophies, results. Man would I love to be in draft meetings. That would be better than almost any football type experience I could think of.
"We borrowed golf from the Scottish as we borrowed whiskey. Not because it is Scottish, but because it is good." Horace Hutchinson
No more score predictions...
Oh and of course examining how he handles FA
"We borrowed golf from the Scottish as we borrowed whiskey. Not because it is Scottish, but because it is good." Horace Hutchinson
No more score predictions...
I hear you, Slater, and I agree to an extent.
I don’t think Jerry Reese has been bulletproof in his management to any degree. The big reason for BPA, as I mentioned before, is the fact that our needs seemingly switch every year to something new. However, like you said, that glaring weakness is troubling.
I’m pretty sure that every team goes through something like this as well, but as far as capology goes, and manipulating the cap with friendlier contracts is probably Reese’s biggest weakness as a GM. He should get better, but as was said before, the guys we take in are more or less here to stay as opposed to band-aids (Bulluck was probably a band-aid type player vs Rolle).
I think that you make an accurate point that Reese should focus on getting more friendly contracts (I said in the comments somewhere up there that he’s about 11th or 12th in my opinion in that regard, with the Ravens, Eagles, Jets, Steelers and Pats being especially good at navigating through cap space).
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
also,
i dont think reese is a bad GM, or deserves to be fired. I just don’t think he should be spared from critique. He’s the GM of this team. He, like Coughlin, should be held accountable.
In my current state..I can't read this long thing..I'll do it in the morning..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
With regards to free agency, I understand that Reese's signees haven't had the largest of impacts.
Think about it though.
Kenny Phillips went down with injury. We had Michael Johnson, CC Brown, and Aaron Rouse. Reese was FORCED to go with Antrel Rolle. He would be in much deeper poo if he kept the status quo there, or drafted a green rookie. He tried to go future by investing an earlier pick in Chad Jones…but alas.
Same with Fred Robbins. We had Alford and Cofield at that point, but Robbins was the main dude who was getting old and wanted a poop ton of money….Reese knew he had to act, and get a younger and more talented DT in Canty.
Same with David Baas. He saw him as the best FA C out there….the only better one was probably Ryan Kalil, but he re-signed with Carolina on a massive deal. I liked Lyle Sendlein, but he isn’t doing that great. So in any case, Reese HAD to pull the trigger there, because Seubert and O’Hara BOTH got really badly injured. He took Baas and Boothe. The tandem has worked so far.
So alot of these moves, he HAD to make, otherwise we’d be killing him too. There weren’t better options out there.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
I’m trying not to evaluate reese for the individual decisions. I feel you gotta evaluate GM’s over multiple seasons…. Ultimately, we constantly find ourselves stuck in the cycle of using free agency to fix a major need. With some foresight “i believe” (only my opinion) this can be avoided. For example, we have known for years the giants offensive line has been vulnerable and was getting older, yet reese only partially addressed this problem when it reached an absolute critical point this past free agency. I’m suggesting that it may have never gotten to that point if he tweaks how he handles the draft/free agency in previous years.
Every now and again, it’s inevitable that your going to have to overpay in FA to address a need.
Every GM over pays all the time in FA.
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Jacquian Williams,...Maybe .. Sadly this has been modified.
Overpaid players is the norm in FA
This past off-season was an anomaly in that some good players went for cheaper than expected after the lockout. Usually, if you want an impact player, you will have to overpay. Bidding between teams drives up the cost.
That’s why the best teams build through the draft. They rely on scouting and development.
Team Ghost: Manningham, Sintim, Beckum, Barden, JPP, Anvil, Ross
Tom Coughlin: "Respect all. Fear none."
yes.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
I think Reese's biggest miss
Was the lack of finding a real leader for the defense once MS92 and Pierce left the team. Since they have been gone we have been subject to seeing too many games like we saw on Sunday. Lack of accountability is a huge hole in this D regardless of Fool running it.
Is this draft related no, but it certainly is free agency related. I would have rather kept business Barry Cofield and dumped Canty this year, he hasn’t been good or near the impact player we needed.
On the draft side I think the bashing of KP21 is a little unfair. He has been an average safety this year for us, but due to the knee injuries I think we missed out on see what he really could have been. Reese has guts which I respect, JPP showed that. Kiwi never got the ability to settle in and he has been fine. Ross is a miss, I am sorry. We didn’t try and move up to take Hall or Revis who are both better and I would have rather seen Joe Staley or Jon Beason who were available. Nicks is a player.
Overall we have the talent to win 10-12 games so not the GM’s fault
It seems the majority of BBVers believe we have the talent to be better.
Very few blame JR for the team not playing up to its talent level.
So, unless the players or JR are not what we believe,
the problem is…?
Coaching.
1) For example, lets take a look at San Francisco. More or less same players as last year. They went 6-10. This year, they are doing well. Biggest difference maker is John Harbaugh.
You can have all the talent in the world, but if they don’t buy into your philosophy, if they don’t buy into your schemes or your plans….they won’t play for you. So motivation is a BIG factor.
2) Scheme. The assistants MUST know how to utilize their players. We had a great base 4-3 defense that Spags used. Less stress on linebackers. More devoted blitzing. We could employ more press and man coverage. Instead, we rarely blitz, play a cover 2 with a big responsibility on the linebackers, and our secondary plays a soft zone. Not playing to their strengths, I’ve cried many a time at JPP playing nose tackle and when we rush only 3 players on 3rd downs.
3) Injuries. We have had an insane amount of injuries. Our depth on defense is obliterated. We are playing rookies in multiple spots on defense. As the season wears on, they get burned out. Too many injuries to come back from….which is a big reason why we are slumping hard right now.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
Mystery George..I have no clue..
You and I talked at length after the Eagle game last year.. and neither of us could come up with a reason or excuse..This team intrigues me..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
JR drafts well
Buta GM does more than that. He should be pushing TC to evaluate his staff from a performance standpoint, not a loyalty one and hold him accountable when he does not. This team has talent that is not being used well or coached up as necessary. I also agree that a fiery leader is missing from the roster.
I got a GIF for that!
by Fester McDougal on Dec 22, 2011 7:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I agree..100%..loyalty takes you only so far..ask Lemmings about it..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
Great post BBI
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 7:36 PM EST reply actions
I heard he has a sweatshop in China where 50 children ghostwrite all his stuff.
It’s disgusting if you ask me.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
I heard he had to write this while
a bunch of guys were stalking him
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
He was forced at gunpoint ya think?..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
knife to my neck
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
It sucks being an internet celebrity!
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
This is the best fan post I have ever seen.
Period.
by GiantsReignSupreme on Dec 22, 2011 7:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It is better than what our editors have posted today!!!
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
Bigblueintervention for president!!!
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
That's exactly what this country needs!
A Giants fan in the White House. The current resident is a Bears fan…BOO!
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
automatic playoff bid for the Giants every year. First law I ever pass.
Also, every time Michael Vick completes a pass, Desean Jackson has to punch him in the dong.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, wow...
I love it!
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
I love this post
spot on. This team has the talent to compete for a SB every year, but the coaching sucks. Coughlin is stubborn as hell and terrible at evaluating coaching talent. He’s had 6 coordinators in 8 years with 3 totally inept D coordinators ( Tim Lewis, Sheridan, and now Fewell ). The one successful D coordinator he had was hired by Reese, ( see Spags). Same sucky special teams, same predictable offensive plays, same lousy defense and oh, let’s not forget a _uck ton of injuries every year. Every head coaching candidate worth his salt would salivate at the chance to coach this team with all the talent on the roster and a GM with an eye for talent like Reese. BBI, you da man!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yo, Ed put BBI on your list of writers please!!!
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
by Bobbiblue on Dec 22, 2011 8:25 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
While that would be sweet...
I’d rather him go ahead and continue his path to being a doctor. He should focus on knee injuries and mental health so he could help the fix the Giants.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
haha this. I only got time cause I'm on winter break!!!
biggest dream is a physiatrist for a sports team. Doubt I can make it to the big time, but perhaps work my way up with the highschool teams first lol.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
Mental health?..Yo BBI..I've been having headaches during the season man..Any ideas?
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
Beer. Loads of it.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
Oh..hmmmm!!hahaha
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
damn, y'all are too kind.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 8:40 PM EST reply actions
You did very well with this
only thing I can add is that I feel JR drafts BPA of course but also, drafts for future need. A few examples:
Manningham: Toomer contract was up after 2008, so a 3rd WR was needed to go along with Plax and Smith (things changed as we all know)
Joesph and Austin: Cofield seemed like he was gonna sign else where and Bernard was not really working out, so they already had Joseph to play and drafted another the next year.
JJ: Smith was a FA, coming off major knee surgery and Ham being a free agent in 2012, so a slot WR was drafted and will get chances next season
Prince. Ross and TT will be FAs, so a top prospect CB was taken.
I had a few more but I forgot them.
Also, the late round picks this year have helped on special teams big time. They made a really really bad unit into just a below average one.
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
that's a good point.
Also, the late round picks this year have helped on special teams big time. They made a really really bad unit into just a below average one.
hahahaha so true.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
No really you deserve the Fanpost Kudos of the year award..BBI
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
The year isn't over yet and I'm waiting for another "Eli isn't Elite" FanPost to steal the kudos.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
give it one more week
it will come… they always do
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
Heck, I think the Giants should hire BBI, I bet even JR didn't know how good a job he
was doing until he saw all the facts laid out. It’s that kind of research and ground work that enables good decisions to be made.
What the hell does that translate to in English..Rorsch???
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
Trying saying it out loud, Bobbi haha
LBzers!
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Haha!!..Yeah I know..LOL!!!..Fucking guy's a nut..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
I just got half in the bag..Now it makes sense..Thanks..
My wife came by and asked me a question..I said “El Beezuhs”..She made me some Tacos..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
Was that the Mexican they were fighting in The Three Amigos?
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
I forget..It was El something..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
El Guapo!!!!!!
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
HA...awesome
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
Ha!!! That's him!!!
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
together we raped the horses and rode off on the women
and trimmed the hedges of many a small village…
nygmen123: Again, without Vick or Maclin, or Cromartie. Injuries don't seem to bother them. They just bring in guys to make plays
nygmen123: Stopped the Pats on the first series. Planted Brady twice. Guess what gang? This team isn't quitting. Or making excuses.
Simms-McC: Yeah -- I wish the Giants were more like the Eagles
nygmen123: In intensity and fight? Right now, so do I.
EAGLES LOSE, 38-20.
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 22, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
Man y'all got to keep the comments below paragraph level..I start to read them and..
Begin to nod off..Then my damn beer gets warm and that pisses me off..LOL!!
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
hahahahahahaha
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
How many draft picks need to become All-Pros for a GM to be considered successful?
Can JR’s time with the Giants be considered a success if JPP and Nicks have stellar careers but the Giants don’t win another Super Bowl?
What about if 50% of all his picks go to multiple Pro-Bowls but still no Super Bowl…lose in the 1st round of the playoffs 4 years in a row?
How about no Pro-Bowls…no legit “super stars” on the roster but they win 2 more Super Bowls?
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
Honestly, the blame for this season goes like this:
Eli followed in order by
Perry Fewell
Tom Quinn
The Football Gods
Tom Coughlin
The Players
Kevin Gilbride
Jerry Reese
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Perry Fewell should be mentioned more then once
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
true.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
Well..I really think Reese has done his job obtaining talent..
The rest is up to the coaches..and how they get the players synched up..I don’t know this freaking team has me baffled..It’s probably part players..but I really feel it is more on the coaching…Solid understood game plans..Our guys look confused out there..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
Exactly...they have talent.
I would really like to see a Giants team that isn’t decimated by injuries. The past 3 seasons have been horrific.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
I'm trying to think of the last time the Giants had a season relatively healthy
2000, 2002?
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly...I can't remember when an injury didn't hurt this team.
Even in the 2007 season they were stretched thin but that didn’t stop them.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
Thinking about it
the last time they did not have a huge injury was… 2004… a 6-10 year. Maybe this team needs players to go down so they can fight their way back up and finish at worst 8-8. How hard they fight is a different story.
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
in the past 8-8
this season could still be under .500. Lets hope not
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
True...
I would like to see what happens if this team starts 0-2 or 0-3. Would they fight back and maintain that fight throughout the season?
I think the good starts sort of soften these guys up so when they lose a few it turns into a “the sky is falling” situation and they collapse.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
For Simms up top
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 10:46 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
now if that don't bring a tear to your eye
You just ain’t a Giants fan.
nygmen123: Again, without Vick or Maclin, or Cromartie. Injuries don't seem to bother them. They just bring in guys to make plays
nygmen123: Stopped the Pats on the first series. Planted Brady twice. Guess what gang? This team isn't quitting. Or making excuses.
Simms-McC: Yeah -- I wish the Giants were more like the Eagles
nygmen123: In intensity and fight? Right now, so do I.
EAGLES LOSE, 38-20.
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 22, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
I remember seeing this picture for the first time
After Stra ended his holdout in 2007, right before the season started. It became an instant favorite. Two grizzled vets, who been though it all… the good and bad… trying to win the big one….
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
Looks like two guys who give a shit.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
the good old days
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
Tell me about it...
I used to get nervous before Giants games because I was worried they wouldn’t win. Now I actually worry that they won’t even show up. I can respect losing but it’s hard to defend what appears to be a lack of concern or pride.
I can’t even talk shit before a game because I’m refuse to make myself look like an asshole if they don’t show up. How sad is that? A New Yorker who can’t talk shit to an opposing team’s fans because he’s tired of looking like a fool on Monday morning…I’m pathetic and it’s their fault.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
I hear yah
First it was being nervous about losing, then more injuries, now its all about what team will show up to play Sundays. So every gameday is a guessing game on how I feel on this team. Last Sunday, I screamed at the TV when Nicks dropped that TD. That was it for being mad, after that, I laughed at these idiots for the rest of the game
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty much the same scenerio at my place.
Until Deihl’s holding penalty…then I went all WW3.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
That really makes me reflect...Look at them..they can't wait to play..
"When I was a boy and I had no sense..I got my pecker caught in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair, tickled my balls and made me shit in my overalls..."
rec'd so hard
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 22, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
And I dont mean that in the BGN kinda way.
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Jacquian Williams,...Maybe .. Sadly this has been modified.
So I gotta veer off topic
because my thoughts are so NOT A FANPOST
but all this boo hooing going on… is sorta nonsense. Right now NFL.com has a video board up: Who is not going to make the playoffs?" and the still shot is the giants. And they have “Who is going to win the NFC East?” and the still is the Cowboys.
Well guess what? The Giants are better than the Jets. The Giants are better than the Cowboys. There, I said it.
If the Giants screw their cocks on and go out there and play football, and win the next two games, they’re in the playoffs. And that’s just the end of that.
DO IT.
nygmen123: Again, without Vick or Maclin, or Cromartie. Injuries don't seem to bother them. They just bring in guys to make plays
nygmen123: Stopped the Pats on the first series. Planted Brady twice. Guess what gang? This team isn't quitting. Or making excuses.
Simms-McC: Yeah -- I wish the Giants were more like the Eagles
nygmen123: In intensity and fight? Right now, so do I.
EAGLES LOSE, 38-20.
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 22, 2011 11:17 PM EST reply actions
So you gotta what?
my laptop is drunk
nygmen123: Again, without Vick or Maclin, or Cromartie. Injuries don't seem to bother them. They just bring in guys to make plays
nygmen123: Stopped the Pats on the first series. Planted Brady twice. Guess what gang? This team isn't quitting. Or making excuses.
Simms-McC: Yeah -- I wish the Giants were more like the Eagles
nygmen123: In intensity and fight? Right now, so do I.
EAGLES LOSE, 38-20.
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 22, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
If they don't screw their cocks on then they should trade them in for the other gender's genitals on their way out the door.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
You mean its not the eagles that are gonna win the East?
Cause after reading this site the past few days, alot of people are on their knees (not praying or tebowing) for the eagles.
Oh and how are the Giants better then the Jets, didn’t you hear… 2007 = 1969 because it was 1000 years ago and that’s all Giant fans will talk about until Robots are playing in the NFL.
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Dec 22, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
Thousands of years ago........
Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants
by The Always Well Dressed... on Dec 22, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
you guys are awesome
Gr8 post BBI.
Second half of the thread was much better to read.
and Funny as hell…
We are all hammered...
I think.
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
Pitiful, BBI...only 19 recs?
Hang your head in shame!
nywins42 needs a new screen name - "nywins46" sounds great!
Just ordered FatHeads for all available Giants. Now I have something to aim at when punching holes in my wall.
New Strength and Conditioning Coach
The Giants can’t go cheap on that. It’s obvious that the guy they’re using isn’t doing the job. It’s time to ante up for a better one. The Cowboys are routinely among the teams with the fewest injuries in the NFL. That stuff matters.
Team Ghost: Manningham, Sintim, Beckum, Barden, JPP, Anvil, Ross
Tom Coughlin: "Respect all. Fear none."
it seems like we have a problem with injuries every year, coincidence? nope
by NewYork! on Dec 23, 2011 8:48 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Excellent work
Im a lurker, but I HAD to log in to commend this work
by NewYork! on Dec 23, 2011 8:50 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
or at least one that bring his lucky charms to work every day
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I agree, but also I don't know how you can blame a strength and conditioning coach for ACL tears though
Hamstrings, quad, etc sure that could definitely be on the coach (or the player).
Great Post BBI
We all hear JR picking up a lot of stick, but you make point well that JR puts the talent on the roster and he does that better than the average GM, and has hit more HRs than average and had fewer busts (but not none). If your GM does that, we should be pretty pleased. Our roster is not pefect but who’s is, especially when injuries have decimated us like they have this year?
I agree with your points that it IS on coaching staff as to whetner they have put the best schemes in place for the talent we can put on the field on game day, and whatever Perry Fewell did in his previous incarnation as DC in Buffalo, I dont think there is a Giants fan who does not secretly hope Spags gets fired in St Louis (sorry Spags!) we fire Fewell, and get Spags back as OUR DC. I firmly believe he is a far better strategist and tactician than Fewell, and could be the heir apparent for TC.
I also think TC – whatever anyone says – is a solid Head Coach, with values that fit the Giants culture. However six second half meltdowns and too many big games when players seem not to be “up for it” is on Coughlin (as well as the players) and I wonder, as I know many others on these pages do, if now is the time for a breath of fresh air at HC, even though TC would leave with his head held high in terms of his record overall. Honestly, I think the last two games of this season, regardless of whether we win or loose will tell us a lot about whether TC can no longer motivate a team and develop a winning game plan with the whole season on the line…
by Wide Right From The 47 on Dec 23, 2011 6:21 AM EST reply actions
Agree on this completely
I also think TC – whatever anyone says – is a solid Head Coach, with values that fit the Giants culture. However six second half meltdowns and too many big games when players seem not to be "up for it" is on Coughlin (as well as the players) and I wonder, as I know many others on these pages do, if now is the time for a breath of fresh air at HC, even though TC would leave with his head held high in terms of his record overall. Honestly, I think the last two games of this season, regardless of whether we win or loose will tell us a lot about whether TC can no longer motivate a team and develop a winning game plan with the whole season on the line…
Wonderful coach, but if you can’t motivate the troops any longer, perhaps its time to go. Remains to be seen though. At least 120 minutes of football left.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Great essay and I agree Reese has been great GM
Let’s face it — this guy wouldn’t be GM of the Giants if he wasn’t brilliant. He came from some backwoods town in Tennessee growing up in poverty. Nobody gave him anything. He earned it by being smarter and harder working than everyone else. He started as a part time scout, became full time scout, head of scouting, assistant GM and now GM. That’s like starting in the mail room and becoming president of the company. I even credit him with getting Coughlin to ease up on his overbearing rules when he first got the job.
Reese refuses to hamstring our salary cap. He refused to renegotiate Osi let Boss and Smith walk. Bernard had to crawl back and take less. This guy is shrewder than many of you think. A lot of recommendations get tossed around here that are made by posters who don’t understand long (or even short) term ramifications. The NFL isn’t like the Yankees who can buy whoever they want whenever they want and if they make a mistake go get someone else.
there are always those sneaky
moves that Reese makes under the radar that never get any love like you mentioned. No doubt. I think there’s a few areas where he can get better, but he is clearly a great GM in my mind.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
<3 this post
But I still have some nits to pick.
1) Your assessment of the o-linemen from this year’s draft seems off to me. Solder is second string in NE because the Pats also have Light and Volmer (two good players) at the tackle spots. He still gets rotated in there sometimes and has flashed his massive talent, although he hasn’t been consistent. Watkins gets a lot of flack for not starting the first few weeks of the season, but apparently he needed time to learn and buy into Mudd’s blocking scheme. He’s been a serviceable guard for the Iggles. Carimi was doing alright at RT too, from what I could tell before he got injured. Our first round pick, in comparison, has struggled. Would take Solder, Watkins, or Carimi over Prince any day, esp Solder. That kid has the potential to be a great LT.
2) Jury’s still out of Reese’s picks this year, but it DOES NOT look like a good class at all. Jernigan has been useless, to put it bluntly. Austin, guy with questionable work ethic, has spend yet another year without even playing in a real football game. Amukamara I’m more hopeful on. He’s had a tough ride, missing all of training camp, having a broken foot, getting torched by guys like Jabar Gaffney. But, you have to admit, this draft class has not exactly gotten off to a good start. I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority turned out to be “busts”.
Think most of my other issues with this article have been posted already. Still though, great job on this. BBV should hire you.
"It's not a lie, if you believe it" - George Costanza
"Silence is only golden when you can't think of a good answer" - Muhammad Ali
Thanks for the feedback browne
1) Solder, Watkins, Carimi, etc….I suppose its partially my fault for not elaborating a bit more….the point I was trying to make was that compared to regular starters in the NFL, these guys don’t cut it yet. No doubt they flash potential, but they wouldn’t unseat (with exception of maybe Pouncey and Tyron Smith) any of our incumbents….so they would not help us out immediately. Not taking anything away from their potential, though. This was more directed towards people calling Prince a bust…to show that nobody else would have made a great immediate impact for us except for a few in the top 10.
2) Haven’t mentioned anything regarding most recent draft class just cause it IS too early to tell. Most prognosticators say you can’t judge a draft class till the end of the 3rd year, so I tried avoiding to talking about ours in terms of overall effectiveness.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
"would not help us out immediately."
immediately=tactical
2-3 yrs out=strategic
You need both
JPP was a strategic pick
Mostly, JR goes tactical’
That doesn’t mean he’s not a damn good GM who needs to be fired.
He is.
He shouldn’t.
I can see that.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Nice article
I like Reese as a GM for the most part.
I don’t think you can question his body of work when it comes to drafting. say what you want about the so called “Busts”, but lets not forget that guys like Ross were keys to the Superbowl run.. Sintim, Beckem, Braden? well, I don’t know if i would call them busts yet (I know, I know) but lets be real here. They have all seen very little action due to injuries. Plus, they were drafted as projects.. they have all, to some degree, shown us glimpses as to why they were drafted… but can we really fault a GM for injuries? this is football, people are going to get injured. Reese has found some real talent in the late rounds and UDFA as well..
Free agency, to me, is where the jury is still out on him. but again, i will not kill him on any of his moves. Rolle i think is more a victim of his coaching, Boley and Canty have been pretty good. Baas? ill get to him in a little bit.
where i criticize Reese is with the neglect of the LB’s and OL. we have clearly been lacing in those departments for years now. now at LB, sure we had Goff, Kiwi, and Boley.. but that group has its limitations. to back them up with low level rookies is irresponsible. Injuries ARE going to happen. we cant stop the run because our LB are inadequate!! DL is supposed to eat up blockers and work against the run. LB’s fill the holes and make the tackles. sure Boley can cover, but Kiwi struggles there and we have a bunch of rookies that aren’t ready yet out there as well. We cant Blitz because we cant trust the LB’s either. cant ask the DB’s to cover for that long with no pressure for that long. The talent is there on the DL and secondary, but it goes to waste with poor LB’s.
Eli’s 25 int’s last year and 15 so far this year has a lot to do with the line as well. just because he isn’t getting sacked does NOT mean the line is doing a good job pass blocking. the mere fact that he hasn’t been killed should be an indication of how good our QB is. Eli is having a great season, and he has been running for his life back there. how he hasn’t ended up on a stretcher is amazing to me!!! I wont talk about the running game because we have already beaten that hoarse enough.
there are 2 things though that i think we fail to realize with this team.
1) how big of an impact the lockout had to a team with so much turnover….
we had a total overhaul on the line and due to injuries and the cap, lost a lot of players in other areas (also lockout related). these rookies never had a chance to learn the system and the nuances of the NFL. its not a coincidence that our OL does better run blocking with the current cast.. these players have been together longer. the addition of Baas will probably turn out much better than it appears now once he has had time to gel with the rest of the players. this team has LOADS of young talent, which brings me to….
2) COACHING!!!!
TC is a GREAT coach in my opinion, but his loyalty is becoming a problem for this team. (haha, now please read carefully, this may not come out right) Eli Manning is the biggest “problem” for this team!!! why? because the guy is a great QB!!! look at what he has done over the years. Very bad O-line, young/inexperienced WR’s, Terrible play calling, oh, and TERRIBLE play calling. He has put up great numbers in spite of this.. KG should not be an NFL level OC. Eli’s play is the reason KG and the OL keep getting overlooked. plus, he takes responsibility for every S#!^ sandwich he has been given. INT’s while running for his life, tipped passes, no running game to set up play action. if Eli said to management… “hey, i need blockers and better play calling” do you really think JR wouldn’t do something for his franchise player?
PF? well the lock out and injuries have hurt him the most. he really is handcuffed for the most part. But, this guy still needs to go. he tries to be too cute, plays people out of position, and the biggest killer to me is he fails to use people to their strengths!!! What made AR and CW so good during the SB run? Spags played everyone to their strength!! he knew what he had and played them to their abilities. PF and Spags are both creative. however, but PF lives somewhere in Wonderland, he out thinks himself. Spags used imagination with what the reality of his team.
I think there is more “talent” on this team compared to the 07 team actually.. but it is being wasted by these coordinators. they need to go, if TC wont do it, that makes HIM responsible for the last 3 years not JR
JEEEZ that was long. But much appreciated feedback.
My response is going to be considerably shorter tho :)
As far as LB and OL goes, Reese ain’t perfect. No one is….I just wanted to point out that he did address it for as much as he could. As far as OL effectiveness this year and last year..we see the effectiveness of Boothe, of Petrus (both Reese products). Baas was good in pass protection. I don’t think he allowed a sack all year. Wasn’t great at run-blocking but we’ll see how that develops.
The OL the past couple games has been better when the mixed stuff up, I think the talent is there…just not harnessed properly. I agree with your premise completely that coaching is the biggest culprit.
JR has made his mistakes, but he should be lowest on the totem pole for the problems that we’ve had. Has he contributed to some of it…perhaps….but he by far is not the most responsible…not by a long shot.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
i can agree with your assessment on the O-line. and even though it has been better as of late, i kind of feel that’s more of a reflection on Eli than switching things up. this year he has been willing to throw the ball away more and take a sack. I do think that this current arrangement is best suited for this years team though. while i think Baas will be a nice player next year, he was really hurt by being the new guy with not enough time to get the scheme down and gel with his teammates. the talent is there to be a decent O-line, but the lockout and inexperience have hurt them considerably.
this is not to say that this unit will become what it once was, really believe we need some better players in there and that DD needs to go.
I think I can agree to all of this.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
"...better player....
Yes
We have to be able to run
For that you neede a better OL
I know I sound like a broken record, but I’ve been singing the same song so long now and have yet to see the kind of effort directed toward strenghtening the
OL than What I believe necessary.
past couple games, our run blocking has gotten much better and more consistent.
I think the talent is there for it to be serviceable. It isn’t what it used to be, and should definitely be addressed. I think Reese will do just that this coming offseason.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
"...did address it as much as he could...,"
No way
.“…lowest on the totem pole…”
Absolutely
Even i'm not sure why I put "as much as he could"
must’ve been subliminal. I’d probably retract that and go with “he didn’t completely ignore it like many think he did.”
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
sorry
ok i had no intention to make such a long post. but i got goign and just couldnt stop..
I appreciate the long effort and diligent work you put into this
You make a ton of solid points. JR has made his mistakes, but in the big picture he does way more right than wrong.
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
I never aimed to argue JR's "infallibility" though through the comments it might have angled it more so that way.
There’s an obvious positive JR spin, I fully admit it. I do admit that he isn’t perfect either. Though examining culpability for the problems we’ve had, I simply aimed to show that he was lowest on the totem pole.
In any case, thanks, true.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
I think you made your case very well
It’s born out by how restrictive the attacks are
They only want to focus on some bit that proves their side, instead of taking the broader approach you’ve advocated. I wish the naysayers spent more time providing facts, not just saying look at how bad it is (and ignoring that it’s a 0.500 team not a 0.333 team).
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
i've always felt the giants have had adequate talent but poor coaching
if we lose this weekend gilbride, coughlin, and fewell just need to go
the giants need to get more aggressive defensively and have a newer offensive system thats better suited towards their strengths. gilbrides system relies on running the ball and since that hasnt been an option this season needs superhuman efforts from their quarterback to keep games competitive. if eli wasnt there this team would be 4-12 at best
coughlin has had his moments as a giants coach, but i just think a change is in order
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Agreed.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
First..
I want to say Great post!….Now..I was one who was questioning JR’s 1st rounders and all I’ll agree with you on Eli,Nicks,and JPP. Ross will either be gone or buried on the dept chart by next season.KP has not played up to potential(I know due to injury) but can he be called a “Hit”? Now here’s the tricky one Mathias Kiwanuka…..Don’t get me wrong I like him alot But..he was drafted as a DE not LB…so JR drafted a DE who is not playing DE……How can you call that a hit? Again I think he is a great athlete….But sadly..an average LB ….IMO he is better with his hand on the ground going after QB’s than dropping back in coverage. Thanks again for the great post….not trying to argue…just debate.
"Can't win with Tom Quinn"
It's all good. I don't think it was you...and if it was, it wasn't just you who questioned it haha.
Thing with the 1st rounders re: Kiwi…is it JR’s fault that Kiwi is playing at LB and not DE….or is it TC and Perry Fewell’s fault? JR did his job and provided the talent.
As far as Kenny Phillips goes, PFF named him as a top 3 safety in the NFC and as part of their PFF Pro Bowl roster. I tend to agree, because I cannot think of very many safeties that are better than him in the conference. So I’d consider him to be a hit. He was solid his rookie year. Got injured. Came back, and is solid again.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
just my opinions , anyway
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
agree on KP
i think KP is actually one of the positives on Defense. I can not think of too many times where i have said “KP!!! What are you doing out there” truth be told, i wont kill any of the DB’s for what is happening this year. AR played really well in the first half (or at least better than expected) CW has had a nice season for the most part too. Rolle seems to be the one who is a part of a lot of “miscommunications”, but is that on him, or the play calling, or not playing his position (see, coaching/playing to strengths).
Add to that the play of the LB’s and lack of depth due to injuries, and i think these guys are playing scared. every secondary is going to get beat deep now and then, especially when the mid-level is WIDE open due to TERRIBLE LB’ing. I wouldnt be surprised or upset if this unit was back next year (well plus the guys that went down for the season)
Football IS the ultimate TEAM game..you need all 11 guys doing their job right on every play. 1 chink in the armor breaks down the sum of all its components.
OK...
I’ll agree KP is solid..I guess It’s just me but,I expected more out of him now Because of the way he played pre-injury.I’m not an anti-JR guy but I do think he should except his share of the blame (and credit) as well as TC, and the ownership.
"Can't win with Tom Quinn"
I just think its hard to Judge one guy in the secondary for what has happened this year. teams are scheming to stop the pass rush knowing that the LB’s are not going to cover or blitz. you give any average WR in the NFL time to get open they will find some room.. TE/WR’s have been running wild on the underneath stuff. so the DB’s cheat a little to help the LB’s…. now you see the deap stuff open up. add to that that we cant stop the run and these guys are in a loose/loose situation,
give me some LB’s and a better DC.. then i will have no problem calling these guys out
Just a tought on the O-line this week
with Baas back this week. I’d kind of like to see Petrus start at Guard.. I like the kid and think he has done a decent job though i cant fault anyone for wanting Boothe there either. think both of those guys are upgrades to DD at the guard spot.
Hell I would even think about using one of them in place of Mackenzie or DD going forward. although i have no idea who deserves to sit more
Good article, I agree Reese is a top notch GM
A couple nitpicks:
1.) You question if Sintim is truly a square peg round hole pick but when someone brings up Clay Matthews Jr., you pretty much say he would have been a square peg round hole for us. If Matthews is then so is Sintim. Sintim was a pass rush LB and one of the most prolific sackers in ACC history and we try to convert him to 4-3 with poor results. He has been injured which is not Reese’s fault but he was also handed a starting job in his 2nd year and could not hold it. He was demoted to 3rd string this year before working his way back to second string and getting injured. He is a poor fit for this defense and that is on JR.
2.) You say Mason Foster is far worse than any of our rookie LBs but do not back up that claim at all. I was not a fan of passing on him for JJ. JJ is buried on the depth chart as I feared he would be and has not added much in the return game. Foster is the starting MLB for the Bucs and making all the calls and checks as a rookie. Pretty impressive imo. The Bucs do not have a good defense but that can’t be blamed on one guy. The D-line is getting manhandled against the run and the OLBs (especially Quincy Black) have not played well. Raheem Morris and those who cover the team seem to feel Foster is playing well:
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-12-14/tampa-bay-buccaneers-team-report-mason-foster-provided-plenty-of-plays-at-lineba
and
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/29157/clayborn-foster-are-bright-spots-for-bucs
Like I said, Reese is a great GM but every move need not be defended to make the case.
Links work fine.
Thanks for the feedback….
1) I said we don’t know if Sintim would’ve been better in a 3-4, because he never got a chance to play in that scheme. I also mentioned that Sintim didn’t really have much of a chance to play in our 4-3 either due to constant injury his 2nd and 3rd years. Somebody brought up Clay Matthews Jr as an example of a linebacker who succeeded in his rookie year. It was in a 3-4 scheme where Clay’s duties were similar to that of a DE. I didn’t dismiss Clay as a square peg in a round hole. I don’t know if he can have a major impact in the 4-3, but he acts more as a 4-3 DE than a 4-3 LB in his current scheme.
Somewhere, I equated Sintim to Von Miller, who was an extremely similar, albeit more gifted, prospect. Miller was a wonderful pass rusher in college, same as Sintim. Which goes to show that pass rushers can excel in a 4-3 defense as LBs. Kiwi is playing the SAM as well. As far as this statement:
He is a poor fit for this defense and that is on JR.
We drafted him with Spagnulo’s scheme…one that would employ a base 4-3 Defense that allows for plenty of strongside blitzing and limited coverage duties. Then Spags left and Fewell came on, and the coverage duties became more prevalent for the LBs. They all now were responsible for making plays in larger zone rather than being good run stoppers, blitzers, and limited coverage players. That isn’t Sintim’s strong suit.
So can we blame JR for drafting a player that would have been a fit for the scheme, but then that person left, and the person who came in (Fewell) didn’t know how to properly evaluate the talent he had on his team?
2) Not sure how I can “back up the claim” that Mason Foster is bad except by telling you that I’ve seen him? Based on talking to Tampa Bay fans, they aren’t impressed. I’ve seen 3 Tampa Bay games this year, and he’s been terrible in all 3. As bad, if not more, than Jacquain Williams and Mark Herzlich. He overshoots plays, doesn’t wrap up, is a bit of a liability in coverage (as much so as JWill), and misdiagnosing plenty of plays.
I don’t know how much stock you take into ProFootballFocus, but they happen to agree with me, giving him a grade of -13.9, one of the poorest grades for a linebacker this year. Can he get better? Sure he can. Would he have helped our squad more (or showed more potential) than any of our 6th rounders? No. Not at all.
Of course he could get really good and develop into an all-pro…but right now, he’s the same as any of our guys. Same could be said for JJ. Most WRs don’t finally shine until their 3rd year in the league. Can’t put too much stock into a 3rd round rookie buried behind 3 really good WRs.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 23, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
I still disagree about Sintim. He had a full rookie year and 13 games in year 2 before getting injured to show something. Like I said, he was handed the job in training camp last year and lost it. He lost it because he was struggling in coverage AND against the run. I think it was mainly his indecision playing the run that cost him. After all Kiwi is no world beater in coverage but excels in run support so the coaches can live with it. Even in an aggressive scheme like Spags, he would not be pass rushing most of the time and his deficiencies in space against run and pass would be an issue. He is best suited to attacking the line of scrimmage basically as a stand-up DE in a 3-4 scheme like Matthews. That is not what we do though so I still contend square peg, round hole holds.
With regard to Mason Foster, I respect you as a poster but I am not going to buy into a player assessment based on 3 games you saw and a PFF rating. After all, we are really comparing Foster and Greg Jones. Greg Jones has been benched and Chase Blackburn was signed off the street to help. Foster has been the starter all year and even played through a stretch of games with both ankles sprained, not easy for a Tampa 2 MLB. The Bucs have a veteran backup and Morris is on the hot seat. If Foster were playing poorly, Raheem would have benched him. Geno Hayes was benched for poor play earlier this year so it’s not something Morris is shy about doing. JJ meanwhile is buried on the bench and will be stuck there as long as we have this coaching staff, especially if MM is resigned. They tend not to mix in lots of different guys and personnel packages. He hasn’t really added much in the return game but hopefully can do so going forward. It’s hard for me to believe we would not have been better off taking Foster in the 3rd and a developmental WR/Return prospect later in the draft.
I think we can agree though that the failings of this team lie more with the coaching staff rather than JR. He has provided plenty of talent.
Fantastic write up
Great job, thanks for your thoughts and analysis. I love the job JR has done. No draft is going to be 100% hits and let’s face it. If we went OL and LB these past few drafts we would probably have deficiencies elsewhere. There are only so many draft picks you have and free agents in any given year. You are competing with the other teams that have those needs and the salary cap. To say JR is ok but our TE’s aren’t great, or our LB’s aren’t amazing is just plain ignorant of the big picture. As much as we all want pro bowlers at every position, it just isn’t realistic.
As for Ross, maybe he can be considered a bust now. But did we all think so when he was drafted? It’s not like we all threw up our hands saying what on earth are the Giants thinking. If i recall most were pumped about him, and he gave us some nice stretches and still may be able to if we get to a better scheme. Just because he is not growing and now regressing, i find it hard to blame the GM for it, it just is how it turned out
If you actually take a closer look at Colts games, you will notice that Castonzo is actually playing well
A lot of the sacks and pressure is due to Painter and Orlovsky holding onto the ball way too damn long. Also the majority of the pressure is coming off the right side, where we have a Ryan “false start/im too old” Diem and Jeff Linkenbach. Castonzo is a far better solution than our former tackles Ugoh and Johnson and looks to be set for a far better season next year. Hey he has made our running game better. Thats a step
I'm very late to this party but let me see is I get it....
When a player fails it’s coaching or injury but when he succeeds great draft pick. Do I have it?!
On a serious note IMO…Reese hasn’t been as good as you make it sound. He hasn’t been as bad as the other post tries to make it sound. I give him a chance to hire his own coaching staff after that it’s put up or shut up.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Dec 26, 2011 12:47 PM EST via Android app reply actions
When a player fails because of injury...its because of injury.
Also, yeah, it is coaching if you don’t put your players in a position to succeed. If you have someone who’s strength is run defense, was brought in for run defense…you don’t have them backpedaling in coverage.
If you have drafted someone to play as a pass rushing DE off the edge at 265 lbs….you don’t put him at DT against 300+ lbs Cs and Gs with no gaps to go through.
Of course coaching gets credit when a player succeeds. I’d give tons, and have given tons (if not in this fanpost, definitely in my comments beforehand) to Coughlin multiple times for staying upright and resilient in the face of injuries. I’ve given Pat Flaherty plenty of credit for molding OL players well.
I’ve also blamed Reese for a bunch of picks as well. In this very post, I said I wasn’t sold on about 14 or 15 of Reese’s picks in total if you count.
Also this….
Reese hasn’t been as good as you make it sound
I’m fine if people think that, but I need reasoning why RELATIVE to how other GMs are doing. Can’t just say ‘cause Reese’s picks failed that he’s a bad GM. Need to compare to other GMs and their success rate. Bill Polian and Ozzie Newsome have both said that the draft is extremely difficult to predict, and picks will fail. Also have to look at the bigger picture when contemplating free agency…that includes who else was available, how they would fit, and what we would have had if we didn’t sign our player. Can’t look at a pickup who hasn’t been doing great and assume that Reese failed. Just isn’t that black and white.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 26, 2011 1:01 PM EST reply actions
meant to be reply to bleedblue12
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 26, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that it's hard to grade a gm based on drafts
Especailly without comparisons to make but he has ignored certain positions and he shouldn’t get a pass. That being said I’m in favor of Reese staying. He should have a chance to hire his own coaching staff but results must follow shortly thereafter. By results I mean a SB. I’d hate to see Eli Manning window close without at least one more ring.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Dec 26, 2011 3:15 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Also
I was being facetious with my opening line. You should know me by now, can’t avoid slipping in a jab every so often :-)
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Dec 26, 2011 3:17 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
ha, should've prolly guessed. I blame the eggnog :)
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 26, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
JR is one of the best
One flaw though. He has been saddled with bad DCs most of the time who cannot tell the difference between decent DL in college and a true 4-3 LB. Start with Sintim and going back. Drafting lousy LBs is a recent Giant tradition. Giants are in need of RB, with health and age issues to starters. Bad luck with injuries to DBs not his fault. Many draft sites rave about his picks, his 07 draft may be best of decade, leading to SB tittle. Giants did not draft Eli but thank goodness Ernie went gaga and “overpaid”. Not a JR pick.
Nah, Reese did it himself.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 27, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Oh shit is this optimism?
Kinda forgot what that is like at BGN
Buuuut c’mon man
23) Danny Watkins – mostly played as a backup before getting starting role, has given up pressure. Old.
He has played great since being let back in the lineup
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger. -Glen Cook The Black Company
That's true. Point of that part was to answer to people who wanted to pick an OL in this past draft that would have
given them instant results. Watkins, like 99% of all the rookies, didn’t provide that, is all. He’s looking good towards the tail end of the season, no doubt….but would not have cracked our starting lineup to provide a big impact for the majority of the season for us.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 29, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Thats true
A big reason he is good is Mudd. you guys dont got Mudd. Just standing up for my eagles lol
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger. -Glen Cook The Black Company
haha it wasn't so much trashing (though it reads like it does) other picks as it was defending prince....
who a ton of people said was looking like bust and what not. So I wanted to go ahead and say….“see! Most picks aren’t that good just yet!”
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 29, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
the "Old"
was like whoa wtf homie! haha
But you better hope Prince read this and is like “Gotta play hard for BBI”
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger. -Glen Cook The Black Company
he will. I have faith. I started the "Prince! Prince!" chant at the draft last year. He knows I got his back.
I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.
by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 29, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Ahem
“We will make the plays this [year] and we’ll get in the playoffs and make a run.
Who said that?
Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden
The Ballard of Jake:
Stop→Slow→Truck→LEAP!
(Adapted from Raptor 22)
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