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'Friday Five' With Pat Traina, Bye Week Edition

Well, it's Friday and Pat Traina of Inside Football and I are not letting a silly thing like a bye week for the New York Giants stop us from our weekly 'Friday Five' segment. This week, I ask Pat about some of the returning players, which player she thinks is the biggest surprise thus far for the Giants, and I try once again to get Pat to commit to whether or not she believes the Giants are a playoff team.

Be sure to check Pat's site for my answers to her questions. Pat's answers to mine are after the jump.

Star-divide

Ed: Prince Amukamara and Ramses Barden should both begin practicing after the bye week. Which of those two guys, in your mind, has a bigger impact during the second half of the season?

Pat: Amukamara, hands down. While it's going to take him some time to become acclimated back into the defense, I think in the case of Barden, you have Nicks who's playing well and Cruz, who's also playing well, and Ballard, who's been playing well. In addition, we can't forget about Manningham, who while up and down, has been there from the beginning. So which of those guys do you pull passes from in order to accommodate Barden?

In Amukamara's case, I think ultimately he'll move to cover the slot receiver once he gets his feet wet on the outside. That will allow Antrel Rolle to go back to doing what he does best, and that's providing run support.

Ed: At the beginning of the season I asked if you thought the Giants were a playoff team, and you 'deferred.' So, I will ask again. Judging from what you have seen thus far -- from the Giants and the rest of the NFC East -- do you think the Giants make the playoffs?

Pat: I'm going to defer again because the Giants are just now finishing the "soft" part of their schedule. I want to see how they come through the month of November, when they start facing the division leaders, before I offer my "feel" for where this team is heading.

Ed: Another week, a couple more awful breakdowns by the Giants' defense in the Buffalo game. Are you as concerned about why or how these things keep happening as I am?

Pat: To an extent, yes. However, against Buffalo, they did make some adjustments and did clamp down on the big plays after that first quarter. I think many times it's a matter of guys being out of position. I suspect - and this is only my guess - we might see Kiwi move into that nickel linebacker role in place of Jacquian Williams, and I think that could help plug up what's been a shaky run defense.

Ed: Player who has been the most pleasant surprise thus far? The biggest disappointment?

Pat: Biggest surprise is Jake Ballard, no question. I remember last year watching him in camp and not really noticing him as much, so whatever he did in the off-season, he's on pace to surpass Kevin Boss' production from last year. Biggest disappointment is Travis Beckum. Yes, I k now he was injured, but it just seems that every time he comes into the lineup, he has a mental hiccup, and that's left us at Inside Football to question whether he possesses the necessary football smarts to be successful at this level.

Ed: There is so much talk every week about the offensive line, communication, all that stuff. A lot of that revolves around having a new center. Can you assess the job done by David Baas thus far?

Pat: It hasn't been bad, but it's not quite on the level as what we've seen from Shaun O'Hara, who orchestrated the line calls brilliantly. Baas has better physical tools, I think, than O'Hara, but he is still working to grasp the playbook. He has made a lot of strides, but there's still a bit more of a ways to go, I think.

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I am excited for Prince's return

Not only so Rolle can go back to doing what he’s best at but so Grant can get off the field!

by Squali21 on Oct 21, 2011 9:10 AM EDT reply actions  

what makes fans so sure

Prince will replace Grant in the near future? Maybe he will but he had 1/2 of a practice in the NFL.

by GMen56-11 on Oct 21, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

keep ramses barden on the bench

we have a top flight passing game at the moment without him, and there IS NOT REASON to change ANYTHING in the passing game right now. Let him get opportunities in the redzone and 4 wide sets.

by The Blood of Eli on Oct 21, 2011 9:20 AM EDT reply actions  

Put him out on the field

get him to catch a few and watch as secondaries begin to accomodate for Barden, Ballard, Cruz, Manningham, Jacobs and Bradshaw. Nicks will end up with an extraordinary, pro bowl season. If Manning distributes the ball around, it’s going to be a nightmare for defensive secondaries.

‘Expert’ – from the adjective *pert*, meaning ‘lively’ or ‘effective,’ and the prefix *ex-*, meaning ‘not.’
JPP IS the Kraken. He shall be released.
An optimist is a person that falls off the empire state building and after 50 floor says so far so good!

by murderhill on Oct 21, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh and don't forget either Hynowski or Pascoe

depending on who’s back there at fullback.

‘Expert’ – from the adjective *pert*, meaning ‘lively’ or ‘effective,’ and the prefix *ex-*, meaning ‘not.’
JPP IS the Kraken. He shall be released.
An optimist is a person that falls off the empire state building and after 50 floor says so far so good!

by murderhill on Oct 21, 2011 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think they will always accomodate for Nicks

they will take their chances with all the other guys……as a matter of fact with all the attention nicks gets,the other guys have opportunities to have a Pro Bowl season especially HAM.

Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!

Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related

by Blue Gates on Oct 21, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cruz emerging as a third big play threat is changing safety play against us

Look at the game winner against AZ. Safety is frozen in middle of the field worrying about Cruz/MM, when the third WR was a possession guy they were far more aggressive covering Nicks deep routes.

Barden is just another guy that can threaten a D and freeze the safety, they’ll be foolish to ignore it.

It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.

Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions

SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16

by trueblue63 on Oct 21, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

well said

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Greg Jones,Jacquian Williams,Paysinger...Maybe not..

by Troy O on Oct 21, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why is anybody disappointed in Beckum?

It’s not like he ever flashed anything ever in the NFL. Never ever. Not even in the pre-season. I could see if he had some big plays last year but just didnt quite put it all together. Or even if he had a Victor Cruz like pre-season game. Not sure why people expect anything from him.

by Giants56 on Oct 21, 2011 9:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Because if you ever seen him in college

You would think he would be even better than Aaron Hernandez and Dennis Pitta…… But the NFL is different, my main issue with him is he seems so mentally fragile or as i like to call him, “soft”

He is really in trouble now that Ballard has shown he is a viable target in the passing game, not to mention when ever Bear Pascoe can catch a few and Hynoski has hands for a FB. This leaves Beckum in big trouble IMO.

He’s better off in a different system, more of a finesse system like the Colts run. Then again if your mentally soft, you will not catch on anywhere.

Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!

Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related

by Blue Gates on Oct 21, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Last season I liked what I saw from Bex

But he looks like a WCO player. Put him in the stretch and he’ll thrive.

It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.

Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions

SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16

by trueblue63 on Oct 21, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Flop

I’m more disappointed in the staff for wasting a roster spot on Beckum. The should get rid of him to make room for Prince.

by TuckU on Oct 21, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Its not a waste

It was good reason, especially with Boss gone……. Im just glad that Ballard is ballin because imagine if he wasnt??, that would mean we would be in the dumps with Bear taking a step back and Beckum never stepping forward.

That would be tragic.

Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!

Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related

by Blue Gates on Oct 21, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't need to

Prince has been on the 53 man roster all seasn, he has just been inactive gamedays

Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants

by The Always Well Dressed... on Oct 21, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thats true.

Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!

Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related

by Blue Gates on Oct 21, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeap

if/when Barden and Koets are active from PUP…. two players have to be released to make room for them

Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants

by The Always Well Dressed... on Oct 21, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Clayton and Cordle

done.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Oct 21, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe

Derrick Martin?

Victor Cruz is the 2011 Ahmad Bradshaw. He giveth, and he taketh away.

by bigbluethruandthru on Oct 21, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

maybe instead of Clayton, yea

but just going by position WR and C for a WR and C

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Oct 21, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cordle, Martin sounds good to me

Like Clayton on STs

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Greg Jones,Jacquian Williams,Paysinger...Maybe not..

by Troy O on Oct 21, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I figured it would be those two as well

Team TAWD:
The entire 53 man roster of the 2011 New York Giants

by The Always Well Dressed... on Oct 21, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Seems very logical

I think we will see CLayton -Barden for Miami

Koets may get brought in a bit slower

It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.

Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions

SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16

by trueblue63 on Oct 21, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

No need for Koats just yet

Would like to see him supplant DD

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Greg Jones,Jacquian Williams,Paysinger...Maybe not..

by Troy O on Oct 21, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good interview

A few things;

1) The passing game is different from the running game , so when she asks who would you pull passes from in order to accomodate Barden, i dont really get it because Eli will throw to who ever is open so its all up to Barden.
Now in order to accomodate Da’rel Scott like some of you want to, touches would have to be “pulled” from someone like AB or BJ.

2)" That will allow Antrel Rolle to go back to doing what he does best, and that’s providing run support."…. I dont agree, i think Prince coming back allows him to do what he does best and thats play SAFETY full time as a ball hawk……he is great in run support but i think since he did it so well last year people forget that he is a hell of a ball hawk.

Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!

Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related

by Blue Gates on Oct 21, 2011 9:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Well ...

With Rolle, the point is he can go back to being a safety and not a nickel corner.

by Ed Valentine on Oct 21, 2011 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

Right point, but that was confusing as a response

I read it the same way as gates

It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.

Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions

SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16

by trueblue63 on Oct 21, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well

Since the position coach this week said they want KP more in centerfield, it would lead one to believe that Rolle will be used more in run support.

"Beckum is Beckum, it's a hamstring".....Tommy Couglin

by Great Gatsby on Oct 21, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

On Pat's question about Herz

I don’t know if anybody saw it, but earlier this week the LB’s coach talked about bringing Herzlich and Paysinger into the defense (in certain packages)

I’m thinking they could want to use them in place of Williams some, to ease up on the mental mistakes. Herz may not be physically back to where he was (speed/quickness wise), but as we all saw in the preseason, his mind is as sharp as ever, if not more so. Spending a season as a coach, and another+ having to think faster than everybody else to make up for his physical limitations, may have helped him.

Paysinger is a bit bigger and much less raw than Williams, so that could also help against the run in the nickle.

by Raptor22 on Oct 21, 2011 9:42 AM EDT reply actions  

leave Williams out there.

The guy is a playmaker, who goes at a high rate of speed and upsets the offensive game plan.

This guy is clearly the most athletic and most exciting linebacker we’ve had in years. He is explosive and has made great plays in the run and the pass, to pull him because of a knee jerk reaction to one Fred Jackson run, that if ya ask me was not on him but on Bernard, would be stupid in my opinion.

Williams is not a part of the problem he is part of the solution

You down wit JPP?

by Flynner on Oct 21, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I cant see Kiwi replacing him in the nickle

Why move Kiwi out of the nickle nascar package??…..it wouldnt make sense, its the only time he really gets to play DE, not to mention its typically on 3rd downs.’

I say leave Williams out there as well. He has been doing just fine.

Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!

Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related

by Blue Gates on Oct 21, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

It depends on Tuck

If they get Tuck back, you put Osi and Tuck wide and use a DT and JPP inside.

Then Kiwi can play a true joker, lining up on the LOS but not in one spot. It will be great for Kiwi, watch what happens when he lines up right behind Osi. That’s how he was killing guys last year.

It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.

Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions

SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16

by trueblue63 on Oct 21, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I dont know about that 63

The strength lies in lining up JPP and Tuck inside, with Kiwi and Osi on the outside in true passing situations…….. He was killing guys last year lining up all over, actually it was his A gap pressure right behind Canty or Barry that was most effective.

He already is a true Joker in Base, sometimes he’s on the LOS, sometimes he is a true SAM but mostly he is actually on the weak side at the Wil spot.

I say put the 4 elite pass rushers down and let Jaquian who is an excellent blitzer and cover guy continue to grow.

Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!

Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related

by Blue Gates on Oct 21, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Giants are getting killed by draws and 3rd runs ,maybe KIWI helps

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Greg Jones,Jacquian Williams,Paysinger...Maybe not..

by Troy O on Oct 21, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kiwi has become very flexible

Lining him up at DE all the time lets other teams plan for it. Letting him float makes him a nuisance for the offense. But still let’s him fortify the run defense via run blitzes and straight LB play.

I’m not against him at DE, I just think his LB play is better than he gets credit for.

It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.

Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions

SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16

by trueblue63 on Oct 21, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Greg Jones,Jacquian Williams,Paysinger...Maybe not..

by Troy O on Oct 21, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's fast and has a high motor

but just maybe the guy isn’t as good as the hype? He’s racked up some tackles, but doesn’t appear to be playing sound football. He’s fast, but also very slight. If he can add those pounds, is he still as fast? Likely not. He’s not giving up on plays and is chasing guys down which is good, but he is getting pushed around, messing up his gap assignments, and not really playing coverage all that well (He’s not picking up guys coming into his zone and is instead breaking and chasing after they’ve caught it. That equals a tackle stat when you would prefer that he instead prevented the completion by being in a position to make the QB need to go elsewhere with the ball or maybe get a pass defensed.).

Long story short the guy flashed some potential but isn’t building on it at this point and has been a bit of a liability actually. Why not give another guy a shot to see if he can flash some potential to build on?

by bigblue777 on Oct 21, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

don't agree

How much hype can a late round LB come in with. He produces his hype with what we have all taken notice of, his play on the field.

He plays, as you mentioned, with a high motor, and will take chances and shoot gaps when he sees them, keep in mind he’s a rookie that is stil learning. He’s also proven that he can stick with receivers and be involved in the passing defense. More often than not the guy is very involved in plays that he should be involved in and to me this is more than I could ask for from any rookie in their first 6 games.

The only glaring exception in his play is that F Jackson TD run, and yeah he may have some of it on his shoulders but watch how bad the middle of our line gets wiped out and then tell me it’s on him.

We wanted to see them draft some effective LB’s for years, and now they did that. So I say ya let the kid grow into his own, he’s already shown me enough to not think about needing to draft his replacement next year, which is a major improvement over where they were a year ago.

As Gates talked about above, if you replace him, then you are taking Kiwi and asking him to pick up yet another responsibility. This further removes him from what he does best. That or you are bringing in Indy’s garbage to replace him with an extra safety. Neither of these options seem like good ones to me.

You down wit JPP?

by Flynner on Oct 21, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm referring to the hype here

Your post amongst others as example. He has become blogosphere hero without truly playing at a complete level. The F Jackson TD run happened to be a big play, so yes it stands out, but it is far from being the kids only mistake. If you look beyond some high tackle numbers and actually look at the kid’s play it hasn’t been that impressive. He hasn’t been sticking with receivers or shooting gaps like you say. He’s letting guys get the catch then chasing and tackling (which inflates the tackle stat). In the run game he is making tackles 4-5 yards after the line of scrimmage from a combination of making bad reads, letting the play come to him, or shooting wrong and chasing from the backside. Offenses will gladly take runs at 4-5 yards a clip off poor LB play. If I was just talking complete nonsense here Pat wouldn’t be bringing up the notion that it is possible to see Williams get swapped out.

by bigblue777 on Oct 21, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

On Jwill getting more praise then his play warrants. Everyone is so hungry for a good LB that after a good game agaist the Eggs a cult hero was born. I want him to be every bit as good as everyone is saying but I don’t see it. I’m not saying I hate him and he sucks, all I’m saying is he hasn’t been as good as many on this site would have you believe.

Banned from GangGreenNation for being a troll for this ONE post after somebody classified the Giants as a LUCKY organization.

He's a bitter Jets fan what do you expect?

That happens when the team you root for hasn’t won in damn near half a century!!

Sour grapes, jealousy will get you nowhere in life lol.

by bleedblue12 on Oct 21, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

He has become blogosphere hero without truly playing at a complete level.

I agree. The kids been OK. He certainly hasn’t played at the level as discussed on this site. One would think he was akin to Ray Lewis.

by GMen56-11 on Oct 21, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kid is a rookie

I’m not suggesting He’s Patrick Willis, Ray Lewis or even Michael Boley… I’m saying he’s a rookie who shows an extreme amount of talent. Let him play, let him learn, let him develop into the guy who does consistently shoot gaps and make plays.

Right now he does these things but is inconsistent, I’ll give ya that. So I think the biggest mistake would be to reduce his reps and retard his development.

I don’t want another LB that can’t stay on the field for all 3 downs and situations, This kid has the speed and skill set to be an every down backer if they don’t start messin with him.

You down wit JPP?

by Flynner on Oct 22, 2011 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think you hurt his development

If anything it might help him by giving his head a little time to catch up. Kid looks like he is getting overwhelmed.

The other point I’m making here is he flashed some potential and was given snaps to build on it. It’s not building yet. We’ve got a couple other guys that flashed a little potential, maybe we can see what they can build on that. Also, we’ve got Kiwi, maybe we see what he can do on different situations. The kid isn’t playing at a level where it hurts us to try other options to see.

by bigblue777 on Oct 22, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

what is the "level on this site"

those that know how good he’s been know how good he’s been, but no one other then you and Mr. LBzez up there is saying he’s a great player already.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Oct 22, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

Have you read this thread. There are comments like “most athletic and most exciting linebacker we’ve had in years.” Or that it is ridiculous to take him out because he is “our best linebacker” Keeping living in your alternate reality.

by bigblue777 on Oct 22, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

figure out what the idea of what that means

“most athletic LB”…explain how that’s not true. Go head. He’s also made plenty of great plays for every bad one he’s made.

aaaand haven’t seen anyone say he’s the best LB (one said ‘possibly’) on the team. Everyone knows that’s Boley.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Oct 22, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

but stay in that alternative alternative contrarion world

where everything Jerry Reese does sucks cuz he doesn’t draft from Mizzou, the LBs wouldn’t be good enough to play in the MAC and every single rookie sucks cuz he doesn’t play like a 10 year vet.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Oct 22, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

I get it you've got beef with me because I don't lock step agree with your BS

Don’t you think it is time to let it go. Two folks above are immediately agreeing with me on the assessment that Williams is getting an inordinate amounts of hype, so your BS that’s all just in me because of your invented reason rings true as just BS. Want to talk about people making garbage up, check your post. Your personal attack drivel is tired. Talk football based on football or go away. Plenty of folks here have differing opinions, you seem to be the one who can’t have a differing opinion in anything resembling an adult manner. Take your childish trolling elsewhere.

by bigblue777 on Oct 22, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

and those two agreeing with you have been spotted as making stuff up

repeatedly about this “hype” that’s never been specifically found. I couldn’t care less who you agree with.

And you started the personal attack. Don’t be so hypocritical and maybe we can move on.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Oct 22, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Its ridiculous to suggest to take Williams out – the guy has been our best draft pick – and possibly our best LB – he’s in and around EVERY PLAY. He’s got more speed than most players on our defense.

He needs to stay in and learn the game, he’s going to be our future at one of those positions.

by dubsrub on Oct 21, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Herz is definetly mentally ahead of the rest

You can tell by how they had him playing all three spots and TC said he never makes the same mistake twice and he has played all three very well.

I personally think he should have been the starting Mike backer because in the preseason his A-gap pressure was unstoppable and A-gap pressure is a Giant staple. Not to mention he just has a knack for being around the ball, he reminds me alot of Brian Urlacher in a sense.

Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!

Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related

by Blue Gates on Oct 21, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

how is Paysinger less raw then Williams?

if he was more ready to play he’d be in there over Williams. They both play the same position.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Oct 21, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well...

Mentally, Paysinger has not only had more major college experience, he’s had well coached major college experience. Also, there’s no denying that Williams is physically raw. Just look at him. He still has filling out to do.

That being said, IMO Williams has been playing more because he fits the role of nickle LB a bit better. He’s faster, rangier…

I’m not saying take him off the field completely, and neither is the coach. Just that there may be situation to which he is not yet suited.

by Raptor22 on Oct 21, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Still would say Williams is playing over Paysinger for a reason

he’s more ready, less raw and just an overall better player.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Oct 21, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Coaches want Lbz playing fast and loose

Williams fits the bill. I’d like to see Paysinger and Herz but only in a limited way to try and gauge where they are at. Even that is tough. Remember Chase, he always looked great as a sub, but when he was a starter and teams game planned for him he became invisible. I’m not sure, but some ex coach said that happens a lot. The step up is when they take away your strength. So I think we are getting to see if and how Williams steps up.

It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.

Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions

SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16

by trueblue63 on Oct 21, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Paysinger is also the son of a coach

He drew raves for his intelligence on the field during preseason.

Williams is flashier athletically and more raw and prone to mistaken reads, leading to some big play misses so far. Lots of tackles because he makes up for some mistakes with raw motor and speed.

But on some plays, the damage is done by the time he can get there because he broke the wrong way, got faked out of his lane or blew his containment assignment in the first place.

@Patricia_Traina Under TC, the Giants are 53-24 when they rush for 100+ yards and 15-25 when they don't.

by AJ_in_VA on Oct 21, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

who says Prince...

who mind you has had all of 1 practice…is going to come in and remove Rolle from the slot any time soon?

we all WANT him too….but people forget that Fewell willingly used Rolle there last year too in favor of Ross….

you could see Fewell use his words extremely carefully when discussing Prince’s return…and the DB’s communications.

i guess Pat just simply doesn’t think much of Barden at all….or is being a bit overzealous when it comes to the Prince

TeamJPP

by andiamo708 on Oct 21, 2011 9:52 AM EDT reply actions  

I do

Rolle is WAY out of position in a nickle corner role. dude has looked lost at times this season when asked to cover the slot. Pat is right on when she says get him back to doing what he does best.

You down wit JPP?

by Flynner on Oct 21, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

well....

i think we both agree but let’s be honest….Ross was healthy last year vs. GB…sitting on the bench, watching Rolle defend J. Nelson in the slot….

TeamJPP

by andiamo708 on Oct 21, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

tryon played last week

in a dime-ish kinda package….(the Roosevelt TD)

but Rolle was still in the slot though…

and the play actually called for Tryon and Webster to fall back into a “cover 2” type zone D….w/ Rolle jumping to the outside WR…very CB like.

TeamJPP

by andiamo708 on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

None of us

have any idea what Prince is gonna do when he finally gets on the field for us this year, but it’s clear to me that Rolle is not the answer at nickle corner. So what can it hurt to give the kid reps there. He’s gotta learn sometime, and agianst the Dolphins seems like a pretty good place to start if ya ask me.

You down wit JPP?

by Flynner on Oct 21, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

let the record show...

I want Rolle playing a more traditional S role….

and we know Prince has lots of talent….

but after Miami it’s gonna get intense….and Fewell’s D is not easily learned.

all i’m saying is, I think Prince will play….but i don’t think b/c Prince is on the field, it will necessarily mean Rolle is outta the slot either….

i.e. it could be Dime for a WHILE before he’s upgraded to Nickel.

TeamJPP

by andiamo708 on Oct 21, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's why

they signed Tyron, got his feet wet last week. They don’t have to rush the Prince.

"Beckum is Beckum, it's a hamstring".....Tommy Couglin

by Great Gatsby on Oct 21, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

exactly Tryon will see alot more action in the slot before Prince will

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Greg Jones,Jacquian Williams,Paysinger...Maybe not..

by Troy O on Oct 21, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dont see that happening if Prince is active.

Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!

Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related

by Blue Gates on Oct 21, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

really ?

I would think Tryon will have a better grasp for at least the next month. IMO

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Greg Jones,Jacquian Williams,Paysinger...Maybe not..

by Troy O on Oct 21, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Prince was considered pro ready

But I agree win your sentiments. It’s not likely he’ll just jump out there. The flip side, is that PF is creative, and he finds ways to get guys in position to make plays. Prince is an athlete and a talent, he’ll get his chances.

AS for Barden, I think it will be flat out stupidity to not put him on the field right away. Not saying bench Cruz, but every WR needs plays off. They just need to start putting him in the rotation. Getting him ready for the cold windy season. Start using him now, so you can use him when you really need him.

It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.

Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions

SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16

by trueblue63 on Oct 21, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

no it's not easily learned

but he ain’t gonna figure anything out standing on the sidelines either.

This kid is a number one pick, and from all accounts not exactly raw. You gotta expect some production from guys like that, and I’m just hoping they don’t leave him holding a clipboard and running downfield on ST’s.

Get him out there, he could help.

You down wit JPP?

by Flynner on Oct 21, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

he'll def contribute....

but i just don’t think he’ll have a big “impact” right away is all….

I think by week 11-12 Prince should be working his way more into Nickel packages….

I could be dead wrong, and he is NFL ready, but still, he got all of 1 practice w/ this Defense….and like you said, sitting on the sidelines and getting anyone up to speed….

but i don’t think we have to baptize him by fire right away either….wait a month or so

TeamJPP

by andiamo708 on Oct 21, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, I'm not a patient man

I’d rather put him out there.

not saying I’m right or wrong, just my thoughts.

For the last few seasons I’ve been hoping for the Giants to take some chances with the personell rather than sticking with the guys that they know aren’t great but they were the safe option. They seem to be more inclined to do that this year, whether it be through injury or cap casualties or whatever, and I’m just hopeful that they keep this trend up when Amukamara is avaliable.

Guess it’s stil the little kid in me that wants to open his Christmas presents as soon as they are under the tree, rather than waiting until Christmas morning after the parents are ready.

You down wit JPP?

by Flynner on Oct 21, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

well...there are two lines of thinking...

1. what WE want as fans…b/c i agree w/ you in a lot of ways. I know Prince is a talent and should get out there as long as he’s healthy

2. what the Team wants, what the Defense calls for, and more importantly what Fewell thinks and who he “trusts”….which at this point, we really don’t know. Smart money says Prince…but we’ll see

Now…if a team is looking at a talented rookie CB who has absolutely ZERO live practice under his belt they’re going to be hesitant to put too much on his plate…

so IMO, my scenario above about bringing him along in Dime packages until he gets up to speed I believe is one way to go about it…

the other way….would be to just throw him out there. but I would wait until Nickel (which the Giants play a lot) and Dime packages and let him play Outside…let him play bump and run, i.e. no thinking. just football. It’s going to be too hard to put him into these complex zone D schemes that Fewell uses right away…especially in the slot.

so that’s why I would probably move Ross or Cweb inside to the slot (if Prince is out there right away) and let Prince play outside…OR if you use him in the slot, try to bring in more “1 on 1” schemes where the Rook doesn’t have to think too much.

I mean, we just saw last wk. vs. Buffalo Boley miss his assignment on the TD to Roosevelt and he’s been w/ Fewell since day 1. It’s not easy for new guys to come into this D and just “hit the ground running”.

BUT like you said above…you go through those growing pains w/ the hopes that he “gets it” that much quicker…but again, that’s Fewell’s judgement call…not ours.

TeamJPP

by andiamo708 on Oct 21, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like the idea of him on the outside with CWeb

and Ross in the slot.

This, I hope is where they eventually wind up.

You down wit JPP?

by Flynner on Oct 22, 2011 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure how healthy Ross was last year

He looks faster and quicker this year, I think the plantar and hammy were holding him back

It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.

Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions

SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16

by trueblue63 on Oct 21, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

good point...but remember

he was healthy enough to start the following wk. vs. Wash when Cweb was hurt.

TeamJPP

by andiamo708 on Oct 21, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

He certainly was healthy enough to play

But his play this year after first 6 qtrs has been elevated.

Health? An Adjustment? Can’t tell you, but from the TV feed, my sense is that the DBs are playing far more aggressively. Not sure I’d call it man-press, but they are taking risks and getting their hands on guys.

It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.

Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions

SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16

by trueblue63 on Oct 21, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

he's also been fortunate...

simply b/c the Teams we’ve faced lately ARZ and Buffalo especially….were trying to target Cweb’s WR….primarily b/c they were Fitz and Stevie Johnson and those guys are big cogs in those offenses….

we’ll see a HUGE test for both CBs moving foward….

TeamJPP

by andiamo708 on Oct 21, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes hes a CB...Plantar and Hammy issues mean he wasnt healthy at all

And he is an outside CB who was put inside after playing a year at safety. He does have some excuses as to why he was struggling and they are viable.

Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!

Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related

by Blue Gates on Oct 21, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

thank you

I hope he does but BBVers discuss Prince as if he’s a 5 year vet returning from injury. He’s proven NOTHING.

by GMen56-11 on Oct 21, 2011 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Barden

While I agree Prince is more likely to have an impact in the second half between the two of them. I think Barden could really help us in the red zone. Or as TC calls it, the green zone. It’s been a weakness lately and I think having a tall receiver running the fade could really help. It was his bread and butter in college. Time to see if he can do it in the NFL. And having him concentrate on a smaller package at first might alleviate any mental errors early on.

Go Giants!

by ronjohnson on Oct 21, 2011 9:58 AM EDT reply actions  

Barden like the other WRs has some unique talents

Unless they don’t think he can make the reads, or get into his routes, the mismatches will only help the offense run more smoothly.

Look at how Nicks is getting more easy passes with Cruz around. Passing offense, when done well, reminds me of old fashioned basketball. You use different guys as threats, creating reactions via choreographed movement. The more different ways you can attack a defense, the easier it is to get all of them open.

It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.

Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions

SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16

by trueblue63 on Oct 21, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

As Parcells once said

let’s not put a bust in Canton just yet, why not have the guy actually do something first.
He can do this, he can do that, you are going a bit overboard, don’t you think?

"Beckum is Beckum, it's a hamstring".....Tommy Couglin

by Great Gatsby on Oct 21, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

why not have the guy actually do something first.

Put him on the field and let him do something, otherwise it’s just a self fullfillng prophecy. He hasn’t done anything, so don’t play him, but if you don’t play him, he can’t do anything, so don’t play him.

And then if we don’t play him, and MM gets a huge offer elsewhere (like Boss), we’ll groan we have no proven 3rd WR candidate. No in today’s passing offense, you have to continually develop new WRs, new TEs. It’s what NE, GB and other successful teams do.

It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.

Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions

SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16

by trueblue63 on Oct 21, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hate to point this out...

But Ramses Barden has shown very little even in the few sparing moments he has played…

If you can recall, when he HAS actually played and gotten a chance, balls are bouncing off his hands, going up in the air and getting picked….

I am convinced – he is one of THE MOST overhyped players I have ever seen – and almost solely because Giants fans CANNOT get past the loss of Plaxico Burress and what he brought to our team during that period.

At some point, the Giants and many are going to have to just GET OVER Ramses Barden and Travis Beckum and release them. They are both eating roster spots.

by dubsrub on Oct 21, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

If someone is deemed a "Project" coming out of college by our GM and scouts

How are they overhyped??, no one called him the savior, and Giants fans are waaaay over Plax, that Hakeem Nicks fella made that pretty easy, also he looked damn good the last time he was on the field, he just got injured.

Ramses Barden is no where in the same boat as Beckum at all.

Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!

Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related

by Blue Gates on Oct 21, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

What has Barden done to say

he’s so far off from Beckum. Serious question, I’m not trying to be a dick. I’m curious to know your thoughts.

Banned from GangGreenNation for being a troll for this ONE post after somebody classified the Giants as a LUCKY organization.

He's a bitter Jets fan what do you expect?

That happens when the team you root for hasn’t won in damn near half a century!!

Sour grapes, jealousy will get you nowhere in life lol.

by bleedblue12 on Oct 21, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

to interject...

I think that there is a lot I could say on this issue…but I think the best way to sum it up would be to look at the comparison between Beckum’s snaps vs. Barden’s snaps….

of course I don’t have them off hand…but I’m willing to bet that Beckum has had A LOT more snaps, i.e. chance to prove his worth….where as Barden really hasn’t had a “real” chance to prove himself IMO.

I have documented Barden’s entire professional career on a few occassions. It’s boils down to being stuck behind really good players as a rookie and not being a great ST player, having a hard ass OC, 1 dropped pass, and a nasty ankle injury….

i’ve said it before…i’ll say it again….timing and luck/bad luck count.

TeamJPP

by andiamo708 on Oct 21, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't realzie this, but Prince had his own Sports Science segment too.

I was watching his Nebraska highlight vids getting excited and came across it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93lapDjx2yw

Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.

by CasanovaWong on Oct 21, 2011 10:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Yea they showed it alot on draft weekend.

Beeeeast!!!!

Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!

Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related

by Blue Gates on Oct 21, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ah word, ok

I had to follow most of the draft on my phone. So psyched to have him back. A big strong cover CB who’s not afraid of contact and plays humble too. On all his highlights he just makes the play and walks back to the huddle. None of this chest bumping me first bullshit. I love it.

Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.

by CasanovaWong on Oct 21, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes very very unique in that sense

alot like Revis was, so confident in his talents that he isnt overly excited when he makes a great play, just very business like.

This young man was the biggest steal of the draft point blank period.

Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!

Skydiving?Forgot your parachute? TUCK AND ROLLE! On fire? TUCK AND ROLLE Got shot? TUCK AND ROLLE Lost your car keys? TUCK AND ROLLE Failed that history test? TUCK AND ROLLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SuCwrZrNQM&feature=related

by Blue Gates on Oct 21, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hey Pat...

why don’t you just wait until the seasons over to make a playoff prediction smh. The fact you don’t know how they’ll come out of November is what makes it a “prediction”. Way to avoid putting yourself out there like always. What a joke!

Banned from GangGreenNation for being a troll for this ONE post after somebody classified the Giants as a LUCKY organization.

He's a bitter Jets fan what do you expect?

That happens when the team you root for hasn’t won in damn near half a century!!

Sour grapes, jealousy will get you nowhere in life lol.

by bleedblue12 on Oct 21, 2011 2:09 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Predict

To state, tell about, or make known in advance, especially on the basis of special knowledge.

I guess she lacks in the basis of special knowledge.

Pat, no one is going to lynch you if your prediction doesn’t ring true.

by GMen56-11 on Oct 21, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

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