Looking at the Giants draft picks the last 5 years
by Ualtar on Oct 12, 2011 12:13 AM EDT
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PrintJerry Reese has had 5 drafts for the Giants. He took over the Giants General Manager (GM) position January 16th, 2007. Reese is now responsible for most of the Giants roster. I count 8 players left on the roster from 2006, which would be the last season Ernie Accorsi would be responsible put the roster together. These are the holdovers from the EA era.
OG David Diehl
RB Brandon Jacobs
DE/LB Matthias Kiwinuka
QB Eli Manning
OT Kareem McKenzie
OG Chris Snee
DE Justin Tuck
DE Osi Umenyiora
Every one of those players is either a starter or in the case of Jacobs in a significant role on the team. Mostly I just wanted to show these players to show how big the turnover on the Giants has been. Reese has changed the team a lot which is not a surprise in the NFL these days.
Reese wants to build through the draft from what I can tell. The Giants don't make flashy free agent signings, in fact most of their FA signings can be seen as sort of bargin basement.
I know that I have been unsatisfied with some of Reese's drafting. He seems to be intent on taking the "best player available (BPA)" all the time rather then drafting at positions the Giants need. So just how successful has this strategy been? Also has he really neglected certain positions in the draft by just drafting the BPA?
I will look at each draft over the last 5 years to see how the players have turned out, and at the end see how many players were drafted at each position. I want to know how much impact the Reese drafties are having on the Giants right now.
Bolded player names are those that are still with the team.
2007
1st round
Aaron Ross (CB) - Has started 31 of the 54 games in which he has played as a Giant. He has 9 interceptions (INTs) in his career. He is somewhat limited, but is a good #3 CB, and a solid spot starter.
2nd round
Steve Smith (WR) - Started 26 of the 46 games he played for the Giants. He started slow, but had 107 catches with 7 TDs in this 3rd season. He suffered a season ending injury in his 4th season before becoming a FA and moving to the Eagles.
3rd round
Jay Alford (DT) - Started 3 of the 32 games he played for the Giants. He only spent 2 seasons with the Giants and is out of football right now.
4th Round
Zak DeOssie (LB) - Has not started any games, but has played in 69 games as a special teamer and long snapper. Went the 2008 and 2009 pro bowl as a special teams player.
5th Round
Kevin Boss (TE) - Started 45 of 58 games in the 4 years he played for the Giants. Had 119 catches and scored 18 TDs as a Giant.
6th Round
Adam Koets (OT) - Started 4 of 11 games played. Has not made much of an impact.
7th Round
Michael Johnson (S) - Started 35 of 49 games in 4 years with the Giants. He had 3 INTs.
7th Round
Ahmad Bradshaw (RB) - Has started 17 of 63 games played. Has 601 carries for 2844 yards, 92 receptions for 721 yards and 21 total TDs. Has had problems with fumbles in the past, but is a dynamic runner.
2008
1st Round
Kenny Philips (S) - Has started 25 of 39 games played. Has 5 INTs.
2nd Round
Terrell Thomas (CB) - Started 34 of 44 games played. Suffered a season ending injury this year, but was possibly the Giants best CB before getting hurt. Started each of the last 2 season with 5 INTs each season, has a total of 11 career INTs.
3rd Round
Marrio Manningham (WR) - started 22 of 42 games played. 134 receptions for 1963 yards with 14 TDs. Has the potential to make big plays, but also seems to have a lot of mental lapses.
4th Round
Bryan Kehl (LB) - started 3 of 31 games played for the Giants. Had little to no impact.
5th Round
Jonathan Goff (LB) - started 20 of 37 games for the Giants. Started all 16 games in 2010, and seemed to be developing into a good MLB before being injuried this year.
6th Round
Andre Woodson (QB) - never played for any team
6th Round
Robert Henderson (DE) - never played for any team
2009
1st Round
Hakeem Nicks (WR) - started 23 of 32 games played for the Giants. Has 154 receptions for 2254 yards with 20 TDs. He is the Giants best WR, and seems to be developing into one of the best in the NFL.
2nd Round
Clint Sintim (LB) - started 1 of 24 games played with 1 sack. He was drafted out of position, and has been unable to make room in the rotation for himself. Suffered a season ending injury this year.
2nd Round
William Beatty (OT) - started 11 of 29 games played. He has taken over the starting left tackle position this season. Has done a good job so far with the position.
3rd Round
Ramses Barden (WR) - played 9 games with no starts. Has 6 receptions for 80 yards. Has had a lot of injury problems so he has not had many chances to play.
3rd Round
Travis Beckum (TE) - started 4 of 34 games played. Brought in to be a receiving TE, but has only 22 catches so far. Has seemed to be a better blocker then expected so far this season.
4th Round
Andre Brown (RB) - never played for any team
5th Round
Rhett Bomar (QB) - never played for any team
6th Round
De Andre Wright (DB) - never played for any team
7th Round
Stoney Woodson (DB) - never played for any team
2010
1st Round
Jason Pierre-Paul (DE) - Started 5 of 21 games played. Has 11.5 sacks including 7 already this season.
2nd Round
Linval Joseph (DT) - Started 5 of 11 games played. Does not have great stats yet, but he has been in the DL rotation.
3rd Round
Chad Jones (s) - suffered an injury outside of football and has not played yet. It is unknown if he will play again, but that is not on Reese.
4th Round
Phillip Dillard (LB) - played in 7 games last season.
5th Round
Mitch Petrus (OG) - Has not played yet, but it seems his time is coming.
6th Round
Adrian Tracey (DE) - did not play for the Giants
7th Round
Matt Dodge (P) - was the Giants punter in 2010, but some bad punts and inconsitency caused the Giants to go another route.
2011
1st Round
Prince Amukamara (CB) - injured
2nd Round
Marvin Austin (DT) - injured reserve
3rd Round
Jerrel Jernigan (WR) - has not played yet
4th Round
James Brewer (OL) - has not played yet
6th Round
Greg Jones (LB) - Started 5 of 5 games due to the injury to Goff. Has shown flashes being a good players.
6th Round
Tyler Sash (S) - has played 5 games, has not had enough opportunities to show much about himself
6th Round
Jacquian Williams (LB) - Has played in 5 games with 22 tackles. He has shown flashes of being a very good player.
7th Round
Da'Rel Scott (RB) - has played in 1 game, but the Giants are deep at RB so there will not be many chances for him yet.
Reese has had 39 total picks with the Giants. There are a total of 24 picks still with the team in some way (not counting Chad Jones). That means 61.5% of his picks are still with the Giants.
Now a breakdown of the positions by percentage (some numbers rounded so might not equal complete 100% punter not included because who cares):
|
QB |
RB |
OL |
WR |
TE |
DL |
LB |
CB |
S |
DB |
|
5% |
8% |
10% |
13% |
5% |
15% |
18% |
8% |
10% |
5% |
There is a perception that Reese has not drafted enough LBs, yet that is the position with the most players drafted. DL, not suprisingly was the 2nd highest.
The first 3 rounds are the ones were a team is supposed to get the true impact players. The Giants have drafted a lot of the same positions.
1st Round - CB, S, WR, DE, CB
2nd Round - WR, CB,OT, LB, DT, DT
3rd Round - DT, WR, WR, TE, S, WR
|
QB |
RB |
WR |
TE |
OL |
DL |
LB |
CB |
S |
|
|
0 |
0 |
29% |
6% |
6% |
24% |
6% |
18% |
12% |
The Giants under Reese have drafted a lot of WRs, DL, and DB. Inspite of LBs being the highest number of players drafter overall, in the first 3 rounds only 1 has been drafted.
I don't know what all the point to this is. I just was interested in what positions the Giants have drafted. Reese has been here for quite some time now. He has to start providing impact players for the Giants. Maybe the BPA thing isn't always the best because it seems to get the Giants a lot of the same positions. Maybe there needs to be some reaching down the list a few spots to fill positions of need. I am not talking about drafting a center with the 5th overall pick or something, but why not draft an LB or OL in the 2nd round if they are almost the BPA.
FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.
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2 recs |
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Impact players
Ahmad Bradshaw
Steve Smith
Kenny Phillips
Terrell Thomas
Mario Manningham
Hakeem Nicks
Will Beatty
JPP
That’s my list, and I think it’s very impressive. If by impact players you mean superstars, those get drafted far far far less frequently. There are probably only 20-30 true superstars in the NFL at any given time. What I notices was the amount of injuries we’ve had. Alford looked promising till he destroyed his knee, Jones, Sintim, Austin, Jernigan, Smith, Ross, Thomas all high picks suffering pretty significant injuries.
I wonder what we would be saying if 1/2 of those guys hadn’t gotten hurt. I’d love to see the defense with Chad Jones instead of Deon Grant, Thomas instead of Michael Coe, and Austin instead of Jimmy Kennedy. More pass rush, better coverage. How bout Goff instead of Jones, just to stabilize things
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
I get the appeal of drafting for needs
I think it makes people feel safe. But look at the Eagles the last few years- that’s a great example of why you don’t reach for needs. They are good in two areas- Offensive skill, and CB. DE’s are good but small and no depth. Everywhere else is a disaster on that roster, a general lack of talent at safety, LB, DT, and Oline. Makes you wonder if they hadn’t reached for Guys like Graham, Jarrett, Watkins, etc, would they have more talent.
Reese has drafted the BPA, I think it’s worked out really well. When he took JPP, none of us probably thought Tuck and Osi would be banged up, Kiwi at LB… and now we have the most productive pass rush in the league, and JPP is excellent. He took two LBs in the 6th instead of after taking the first going to add depth at another need spot. Now they both start and contribute.
You can’t draft for need because you don’t know where your needs will end up being. I thought we’d be in trouble at LB, instead two rookies are stepping up. I thought WR would be an issue- maybe it is, but an UDFA is helping a lot at that spot. It all adds up in the end.
by dannymac56 on Oct 12, 2011 9:11 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
I agree with this a lot
You can’t draft for need because you don’t know where your needs will end up being.
@Patricia_Traina Under TC, the Giants are 53-24 when they rush for 100+ yards and 15-25 when they don't.
Every team has 1 need:
Talent.
Going BPA is the best way to get talent on the team.
by Raptor22 on Oct 13, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
So…
How would you feel if Reese goes BPA in the next draft, and in the first 3 rounds goes WR, DE, CB? At some point he needs to draft the best player at needed positions in the early rounds.
IMHO
Would the Giants be where they are if it weren’t for the (seemingly recent) drafting combo of WR, DE and CB? Nicks, Ham and Smith, Tuck, Osi, Kiwi and JPP, Ross, CWeb, T2 and hopefully Amukamara! You could actually throw DT in there too.
The big picture had players retiring or about to, players aging, contracts going to expire and injuries. Hindsight is 20/20, but JR has filled those areas admirably. It’s virtually impossible to fill every need strictly through the draft, but you can momentarily fill in the blanks via FA.
Besides, overlooking BPA vs. a need could have serious consequences.
What sort of impact players are you looking for?
There’s a ton of impact players on this team, most of them drafted by Reese. There’s really only one answer to this…EL Ban EEZERS. LBzez!
If he drafts a LB and he’s a star then he’ll have drafted an """"impact player""""". Cuz obviously one of the best WRs in the NFL, a DE on his way to becoming one of the better ones in the NFL, another WR who has the most poo-poo’d 900yd 10TD season in history as well as a starting LT…all that’s not impact. They don’t play LBer, obviously.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I think Reese has done a GREAT job
at mixing need with BPA. Aaron Ross filled a need and we didnt have to reach for him. Say what you want about him now, he was a key contributor for the SB. After Plaxico shot our season in the leg, we got Nicks. Great need filled and great value at the bottom of round 1. Safety was a need after Gibril left and we took KP to fill a need but didnt compromise value. Just one fan’s opinion.
That's right, JR has blended value with need.
When a GM, coach and staff make a board, they have what JR called “neighborhood players.” Meaning, for example, say the Giants are picking in the second round at #40. As their pick rolls around they have a list of players who they would consider taking with that spot.
Depending on where they are picking and the talent that is left on their board, any given neighborhood could include one player, five players, maybe more. Then the Giants will take into account who they think is the best overall player, best fit, smartest, need, etc.
BPA and this BPA “neighborhood” approach works because of what dannymac mentioned above. Injuries cannot be predicted, therefore, need cannot always be predicted.
Nice post, BTW. I really enjoyed seeing the positions drafted broken down with percentages.
If I am being negative please, don't let it fool you, I am an optimist at heart and I can prove it.
NYG 34 SEA 17
I think Reese has done his job admirably.
Rec’d for the time you put into this. Solid research, sir.
Win ugly.
by tito (eight and oh) on Oct 12, 2011 7:03 PM EDT reply actions
I agree he has done very well
I think a solid draft gives you 2 starting level players (not stars, just solid), at the least, with one or two rotation guys as backups.
If you do that every year, you’re at least holding serve.
If you get a pro bowl type player or at least candidate, a guy who would likely start on pretty much any team, then that to me is probably worth at least one solid regular starter plus one serviceable backup combined.
By those standards, 2007 looks to be good, 2008 was good, 2009 wasnot great except it brought Nicks as a budding superstar and Beatty’s emergence as a solid starter saves that draft class as more or less holding serve. Jury’s still out on Barden and Beckum but they’re not looking like anything better than spot replacements, close to waiver wire talents.
2010 is too early really to judge except you already see JPP emerging as a probably dominant force at his position, and Joseph as a sold space eating defender who clogs the middle reliably as a starter. Got to give JR a pass on Chad Jones, Petrus right now is a marginal backup who can still become a usable starter.
I won’t grade 2011, it’s just too early, though JWill may end up being the first to establish himself as a better than replaceable starter.
The Eagles, for example, would LOVE to have a draft history like that since 2007.
@Patricia_Traina Under TC, the Giants are 53-24 when they rush for 100+ yards and 15-25 when they don't.
In Typical Giants Fan Fashion....You totally forgot about Cweb.
kicks rocks
what is with this friggin place!!!!
TeamJPP
Wow, you are right.
I feel like a fool for not noticing that.
This is why we need you, andi.
If I am being negative please, don't let it fool you, I am an optimist at heart and I can prove it.
NYG 34 SEA 17
good call!!
I’ve noticed fewell had him playing a lot of press coverage against seattle. I hope he keeps on let’s him do what he does best.
by hit_hard on Oct 12, 2011 10:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
well CWeb was drafted in 2005
Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 5...
I'm down wit JPP
Yea you know me
Win Ugly.
Looking back at JR's drafting career...
the guy is on the money man…his Top 5 Draft Picks are damn near all “hits”
and even if they’re outta football or gone:
Andre Brown and Jay Alford are examples of guys who really were derailed by injury.
Chad Jones was just a unfortunate non sport related injury
Kehl and Boss are gone but contributing elsewhere
Sintim…I just can’t
Steve Smith, he’s gone but everything aside, it was still a good pick by JR
I mean, you got a couple duds in there like Bomar and Dillard
but i’m also still waiting for Barden and Petrus
Beckum is trying his best to join Bomar and Dillard though…
TeamJPP
Did you just call Bomar a dud?
On BBV? What balls you have? I hope for your sake that no one else catches that…
Go Big Blue!
First rounds picks
Those are like gold and wasting them can really hurt a team. Just look at our first round picks from 91-96. All duds. Assuming Prince becomes what we think he will, JR hasn’t blown any yet.
by G-FANinFL on Oct 13, 2011 1:08 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
UDFA's is perhaps a better, or equal measure of a GM's skill
Indianapolis and New England built dynasties with no names. Subject for your next fan post maybe
I am a fan of Kevin Gilbride and I don't care what you say
by Spider Lockhart on Oct 13, 2011 6:10 AM EDT reply actions
oh no wait
the GM has nothing to do with the UDFAs
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
That is an interesting comment. AJ Smith in San Diego does a great job with UDFAs, however, his early picks in the draft are often bad. So he does get good players, yet he doesn’t always get impact players. There is a reason that a guy gets drafted late or is a UDFA. It might be character issues or it might be that he is limited in someway. That is why the first 2 rounds are so key, that is where the guys that should be less limited are at. Sure you might get lucky with a Brady on occasion, but those guys are very rare.
I think Reese has done a good job in the draft. The injuries make him look better for certain. He looks almost like Nostradamus.
you cant measure heart
that’s the case with UDFA’a & late round picks. you hear all the time about guys coming in with a chip on their shoulder b/c they werent drafted as highly as they thought they would be. Let’s be honest, everyone overvalues themselves but the players that take it personally are the ones that usually succeed.
Nobody wins the Superblow in October.
Talk is Cheap! Play the Game!
like that time Marky Mark played for the Eagles
Details of the operations of an interstate dog fighting ring were revealed, with some portions involving drugs and gambling. Gruesome details involving abuse, torture and execution of under-performing dogs ... He admitted to being involved in the destruction of 6–8 dogs, by hanging or drowning...
by Simms-McConkey on Oct 17, 2011 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions
The simple question is
If Reese is so great and has done such a great job building the team why do we appear to have gotten weaker? Why do have posts questioning why can’t our OL block the run or the pass? Why do we have posts questioning why this team can’t stop the run? It’s easy to don the homer hat and go through players one by one and say “oh this guy is great” or “this guy has tons of potential and will be great just wait!”. The cold hard reality is this has not looked like a good “team” for a bit now. We can dish out excuses but that is the reality. Maybe the players aren’t as good as we want to believe they are or maybe it is the wrong mix of players and the whole BPA thing really doesn’t work. What I do know is doing a player by player subjective analysis of how impact they are or if they are still on the team etc. doesn’t do you much. You have to look at one simple thing. Is the TEAM stronger.
have you looked at the number of players lost for the season since training camp?
It’s not an insignificant list, especially at CB and LB.
@Patricia_Traina Under TC, the Giants are 53-24 when they rush for 100+ yards and 15-25 when they don't.
Blaming injuries is a cowards copout
Injuries happen, to all teams. If you come away from every season saying oh it was just injuries that killed us you are either lying to yourself or you have a team that lacks adequate depth. The packers are without both offensive tackles right now.
um, no
I’m not a player. I’m not a coach. Neither are you.
Players and coaches have to ignore injuries and play the hand they’re dealt.
But outsiders (that’s you and me) can look at the whole picture because we’re not actually playing the game.
So unless you believe that anyone can be pulled off the street any time to play football, and talent and experience do not matter at all from one person to the next, when you look from the outside, injuries definitely do matter.
So let’s not pretend we’re actually playing or coaching the game, ok?
@Patricia_Traina Under TC, the Giants are 53-24 when they rush for 100+ yards and 15-25 when they don't.
Um, no
Every fan’s team deals with injuries. What would your opinion be of a cowpokes fan who told you at the end of every season “we would have won the SB if not for injury xyz.”
I don’t think anyone can be pulled off the street. I think you should have backups already on your team and other strengths to lean on if one area has to take a hit.
Saying "we would have won the SB except for injuries" is not the same as saying
. . .the team’s overall performance has been impacted by injuries.
And while injuries are part of the game, they do not even out every year across teams. With roster limits and salary caps, no one can have unlimited depth, particularly at any one position.
And if enough injuries hit in the right places, since every team is going to have some holes somewhere, injuries can turn what would be an 11 win team into an 8 win team. Even then coaching and contingency planning can make up a win or two, but that might not be enough to make the playoffs.
@Patricia_Traina Under TC, the Giants are 53-24 when they rush for 100+ yards and 15-25 when they don't.
Reese is getting a pass over and over because of "injuries"
I’m just tired of hearing the excuse. The fact plain and simple is this team is regressing rather than progressing from where it was at the beginning of Reese’s tenure. Drop the nobody can have unlimited depth etc etc bs. Nobody is arguing that. If you are going to make an argument about a GM being great than he should be putting together a roster that gets it done within the limits of salary caps, roster limits, and injuries. Every GM in the league has the same challenges, so stop using them as an excuse like Reese is the only one that has them.
he took over a team at about the time it won the SB
you expect a team to win it every year?
Be tired all you want. I never called him “great,” so show me where I did.
Take a look at the team’s record since he became GM and compare it around the league. here does it rank?
Do that and then come back and make your case that he’s no good, since obviously, looking at the talent he’s brought in via the draft is not sufficient for you.
@Patricia_Traina Under TC, the Giants are 53-24 when they rush for 100+ yards and 15-25 when they don't.
Regressing?
In the four years preceding Reese taking over as GM. the Giants were:
2003. 4-12
2004. 6-10
2005. 11-5 Division Champs
2006. 8-8
And in that time frame the Giants went to the playoffs once, that being in 2005 where they got crushed at home by the Panthers.
After Reese took over:
2007. 14-6, Wild Card, SB champs.
2008, 12-4, Division Champs, lost at home in playoffs to Eagles.
2009. 8-8
2010. 10-6
Now, would you show me where the regression is? Or is there another way to judge a team other than wins and loses?
If I am being negative, please don't let it fool you, I am an optimist at heart and I can prove it.
NYG 24 BUF 20
by tommy d. on Oct 16, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
07 and 08
Are what I’m calling the beginning of Reese’s tenure. The core of the team had been built, he was adding on pieces but it wasn’t “his team” yet. As the OP points out more of that original core is cycling out and more of the roster are now actually Reese’s guys. Outside of just wins and losses you can look at the degree of competition against top flight teams and the ability to handle lower tier teams. Reese has shown an ability to locate some talent, but I question his ability to build a complete team. That is why I think he was s successful early on when the team was built and all he had to do was sprinkle on the talent. It’s the complete vision he lacks.
I don't understand how he doesn't have "complete vision"
Team Greg Jones
Team Jerry Reese
"how the f*** do the giants with 6 starters out comeback while the eagles give up 21 2nd half points to the worst offense in the nfl…" -XxActionJacksonxX
"Heart" - PhiladelphiaEagles
by BigBlueIntervention on Oct 17, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
ah. so that's the only thing then.
Well then I guess I’m okay with his lack of vision then…
Team Greg Jones
Team Jerry Reese
"how the f*** do the giants with 6 starters out comeback while the eagles give up 21 2nd half points to the worst offense in the nfl…" -XxActionJacksonxX
"Heart" - PhiladelphiaEagles
by BigBlueIntervention on Oct 17, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok.
I can see your point that the 07 and 08 teams were built for the most part by his predecessor.
A couple of thoughts here on Reese’s contributions to the 07 and 08 teams:
1. I’m sure you know this but I think it is worth pointing out. Reese was the Director of scouting under Ernie, so he had an awful lot to do with Ernie’s success. Not only with targeting and researching players, but having input into decisions in the War Room on draft day.
2. Bradshaw, Smith, Boss, and Ross were all rookies Reese had the final say on in the 07 Draft that contributed mightily to our SB win.
3. Reese signed key 2 key FA’s in 07 in Kawika Mitchell at LB, and Reuben Droughns at RB. Many overlook the contributions of Droughns in the running game and especially on ST’s in 2007.
4. Reese made the very difficult, and widely unpopular decision to let Pettigout go and move Deihl from LG to LT. It was a HUGE gamble, and it paid off big time.
5. He knew enough to only give TC a one year extension before the 2007 season, basically challenging TC to change his ways for the good of the team. And boy did that pay off.
6. Reese has targeted the right guys on the Giants to re-sign, and everyone I will mention here besides Jacobs, never made it to FA. Eli, Tuck, Snee, Seubert, Deihl, Jacobs, CWeb. And every one of these guys came on the cheap for us except for CWeb. Although some of these signings came after the 08 season, I still feel the need to include them here.
7. Reese, along with Giants ownership, agreed to pressure TC into replacing Offensive Coordinator John Hufnagel during the 2007 season. This after only giving TC the 1 year extension. Another gamble that paid off. He could have destroyed his relationship with his HC with this one. But had enough people skills to navigate the franchise through a tough transition. (Or it could have been as simple as saying to TC: “change the OC or your fired,” I realize this). Either way he made it work with TC.
8. I will speculate some here, but you have to think he must have been some type of stabilizing force during the time when the Giants lost both Wellington Mara and Bob Tisch within a few months of each other in 2008.
So, I suppose I also tried to address your point about Reese “lacking complete vision” with all these details. I hope you can see some of what I am saying.
And I, like BBI, would like to read how JR lacks complete vision. I really see no evidence of that.
If I am being negative, please don't let it fool you, I am an optimist at heart and I can prove it.
NYG 24 BUF 20
by tommy d. on Oct 17, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I know Reese was the director of scouting. I’m giving him credit as being able to spot some talent. I know 07 had a great impact from the rookies, but like I said Reese had the luxury of adding talent rather than building the core. Those rookies success was aided by the veteran core that was in place.
In the complete vision category I’ll reference the complete ignoring of the linebacker position. I’ll reference the OL which was clearly aging but was ignored. Did they look better vs. The Bills? Yes, but how much of that is true improvement and how much is going against one of the worst defenses in the league that was without it’s best defensive lineman? I’ll reference bringing in guys like Clint Sintim and Travis Beckum just on thoughts of raw talent potential without concern for how they fit into your team. I’ll reference that while most other teams were in a good position to work FA this year the Giants were in a position of having no money under the cap to attempt to address any issues. I’ll reference having to overspend on Rolle because the safety position had previously been getting the same ignore tactic as the linebacker position is still getting.
So you question some of his drafting,
and his perceived lack of importance placed on the LB position. And throw in an over-payment of a Safety in FA. Maybe you don’t like the money paid to Canty and/or Bernard as well. You also didn’t like that he didn’t have money to spend, or didn’t choose to put the Giants in position to spend, alot of money this off season.
IMO you absolutely, without question, CANNOT say having the Giants at or near the cap this off season, resulting in less than exciting Free Agents signed was or is a mistake for two reasons:
1. It was an organizational decision to have the Giants in that position.
2. You do not as of yet know the short term or long term results from that decision. Short term being this season in its entirety, long term being 2, 3, 4 years down the road.
There are actually several other reasons that this argument does not fly, most notably the uncertainty of the CBA, but this and any other reason I could list pale in comparison to the two I stated already.
In essence, you question many of his moves or non-moves. That really isn’t that much. I still challenge your view that Reese doesn’t have “complete vision.”
If I am being negative, please don't let it fool you, I am an optimist at heart and I can prove it.
NYG 24 BUF 20
One other question,
What was your opinion of Ernie Accorsi?
If I am being negative, please don't let it fool you, I am an optimist at heart and I can prove it.
NYG 24 BUF 20
As far as LBs go...
He signed Michael Boley. He drafted Clint Sintim, a second round pick by the way, and also went ahead and drafted Dillard, Jacquain, Greg Jones (who by most prognosticators should have been a 2nd or 3rd round pick), Jonathon Goff (who is a solid starter now), Adrian Tracy, and signed Keith Bulluck and re-signed Mathias Kiwanuka.
I’d say he’s done quite a bit.
As for OL, he drafted Will Beatty, signed David Baas, drafted Mitch Petrus and James Brewer (who most prognosticators pegged as a 3rd round pick), Adam Koets (who was pretty good in spot duty last year), signed Shawn Andrews (former 1st rounder…), Stacey Andrews, and re-signed Kevin Boothe who was solid last year too.
I’d say he’s done quite a bit.
Also, he
overspend on Rolle because the safety position had previously been getting the same ignore tactic as the linebacker position is still getting.
Wait a sec….didn’t he draft Kenny Phillips? Wasn’t that in the first round? What position does he play? Interesting….
Team Greg Jones
Team Jerry Reese
"how the f*** do the giants with 6 starters out comeback while the eagles give up 21 2nd half points to the worst offense in the nfl…" -XxActionJacksonxX
"Heart" - PhiladelphiaEagles
by BigBlueIntervention on Oct 17, 2011 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I like lists
If I am being negative, please don't let it fool you, I am an optimist at heart and I can prove it.
NYG 24 BUF 20
x2
Team Greg Jones
Team Jerry Reese
"how the f*** do the giants with 6 starters out comeback while the eagles give up 21 2nd half points to the worst offense in the nfl…" -XxActionJacksonxX
"Heart" - PhiladelphiaEagles
by BigBlueIntervention on Oct 17, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
in spite of drafting a bunch of LBs the Giants are so weak at that position they have to move a very good DE to LB. Is that a sign of genius or problems with the roster set up?
To be fair, Sintim his main competition has had two major season ending injuries
I’m sure that is JRs fault. But if Sintim hadn’t blown his knee twice he might have pushed Kiwi back to DE. Isn’t it a strength when your players are flexible enuf to do that sort of thing?
You can spin anything as a negative. Here’s a challenge. Go thru the last 5 drafts, look at who we drafted and then which LBs were left on the board. How many top LBs did we pass on? Now if it turns out 3 or 4 pro bowl caliber guys were passed for bums you have a point.
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
But Reese was the Head of Scouting then
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue."
So if I read this correctly
You don’t judge a GM by the players, but by a subjective evaluation of the whole. I’d just like to know how you measure is the team stronger? Do you account for injuries? Do you account for available talent (some drafts turn out to be very weak and no one gets much better)?
It’s already a wrap… might as well not show up tomorrow.
Football - It's Beyond an Addiction, It's a Way of Life.
by Eagladelphia on Sep 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
SEPT 25 - Giants 29 - Eagles 16
Has the team made the playoffs?
Has the team become more dominant against weak teams, more able to hang with and beat the good teams? Has the run offense gotten better or worse? How about the run defense?
I don’t want to hear whining about injuries, that’s football. Don’t tell me nobody gets better. Let’s also not pretend like the draft is the only way to make a team better. If you aren’t leveraging the draft, free agency, and potentially trades to make the team better you aren’t doing your job as a GM. Look at teams like the Detroit Lions who have been basement dwellers now sitting at 5-0. Teams don’t get better….
Injuries
I think injuries really shine focus on your management. Any idiot can draft Patrick Peterson. Indy fans right now are wondering why backup QB was never given priority, unlike the Giants, where Reese traded for Rosenfels when they had no good options.
Coaches are also exposed by injuries. Can they adjust for new players? Does everyone understand the plays? A good coach continues to be successful.
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue."
Technically, Andre Brown has played for a team...
2 rushes for -1 yards.
Yikes.
"The nerve of certain youngins running their mouth.
Until [the Eagles] win something major, I don't want to hear it."
-the Facebook mayor of East Rutherford
I look at the players Reese has drafted
and to me it’s obvious he knows how to run a draft. Wether it be the top rounds, the middle, or the bottom, this former scout can target talent and get it on the team.
I look at his FA signings and overall they are very good (B type of grade). Canty, Rolle, Bernard, Boley, Droughns, Tynes have all made contributions. Guys like Bullock, Grant, less than great.
Reese was Ernie’s #2 and had alot to do with the drafts in the years prior to taking over in 2007. A part of drafting guys like Eli, Shockey, Snee, Amani. So he was also apart of signing FA’s like Mac, Plax, AP.
As GM, he also has resigned TC twice. And that is the other part of being a GM. Hiring and firing a head coach.
All this being said, it boils down to wins and loses. You are a good or great GM if you hire the right coach, and give him the right players to win. For the most part, Reese’s teams have won. The last two years though, can make some people doubt. At this point, I do not. His track record gives me faith.
If I am being negative please, don't let it fool you, I am an optimist at heart and I can prove it.
NYG 24 BUF 20
Why is it that every time people doubt Reese, he keeps proving them wrong?
Team Greg Jones
Team Jerry Reese
"how the f*** do the giants with 6 starters out comeback while the eagles give up 21 2nd half points to the worst offense in the nfl…" -XxActionJacksonxX
"Heart" - PhiladelphiaEagles
by BigBlueIntervention on Oct 17, 2011 4:09 PM EDT reply actions
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