Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

"Replacement Level" and the RB Position

The statistical revolution in sports began among baseball fans and has made an impact across the board, but baseball is fairly easy to quantify because it's such an individual sport. As a Met fan, I know that Carlos Beltran and David Wright are independent entities; to evaluate their performance in tandem would be silly.

In football, however, it's almost impossible to separate players entirely. Offensive players rely on other offensive players to get opportunities to move the ball forward and put points on the board. Chris Snee and Brandon Jacobs are not comparable to Carlos Beltran and David Wright; what Snee does has a direct impact on what Jacobs can do.

I think, however, that the concepts undergirding the statistical revolution are far more important than the numbers themselves. With this, I have been thinking a lot about the notion of "replacement level player," and what it means in football.

A "replacement level player" provides the level of performance an average team can expect when trying to replace a player at minimal cost. In baseball, if you have more than a couple of replacement-level players, they will impact your team's ability to score runs rather dramatically. But in football, it seems to me that you can thrive with a couple of well-placed replacement-level players. I keep going back to the Indianapolis Colts. It's just not possible that the Colts have a brigade of good wide receivers who can fill in when all of their top ones get hurt at the same time. And yet Peyton Manning makes no-names like Blair White and Jacob Tamme look good. (You may also be able to add Pierre Garcon to that list. Either the Colts have miraculous scouts who can find very talented players at tiny schools, or Manning makes the players around him look really good.)

The Giants did the same thing: Derek Hagan looked pretty good when he was brought in off the streets, but how much of that was Hagan, and how much of that was Eli Manning making a receiver look good? (I come down very strongly on crediting Manning, with Hagan's value-added being a general familiarity with a complex playbook.)

A running back who avoids mistakes--think BenJarvus Green-Ellis--can produce quite well if working behind a great offensive line. BJGE isn't a home-run hitter, with a season long of 33 yards, but he was exactly what the Pats needed at running back. (He was an undrafted free agent in 2008.)

So, where does this leave the Giants with running backs? The Giants have two remarkable physical talents at running back--a bruiser the size of a defensive end, and a smaller back with elite-type agility, moves, and breakaway speed. Neither back is replacement-level, certainly. The two backs racked up 2,058 yards on 423 carries, which is stellar (4.9 Y/C). And yet the two backs fumbled 9 times, which is a clear detraction from their yardage.

I wasn't sure how I would convert fumbles into yardage-deduction, but Football Outsiders made a chart once, and based on the proximity to the goal line, you can estimate the yardage per turnover being worth 49-57 yards. The Giants lost 7 fumbles, so you could argue that those losses cost the Giants about 370 yards. Subtract that from the 2,058 yards, and now all of a sudden, the Giants' RB production looks a lot worse (4.0 Y/C).

Based on this very-rudimentary analysis, the Giants would be paying quite a bit for two running backs who were "only" producing 4.0 Y/C. The Giants' O-line, too, seems to be able to sustain lesser backs. DJ Ware got 3.7 Y/C in limited work.

If I were the Giants, I would spend resources bolstering the offensive line, whether it be in free agency or through the draft. I would probably cut ties with Ahmad Bradshaw entirely; while he is an elite-level talent, his added production just doesn't seem worthy of a high salary.

My argument is that a replacement-level back, coupled with some improvement/reemphasis on the offensive line, could produce similar levels of production at a significantly-reduced cost. The Giants should look for one attribute to emphasize in this back: ball security. The back does not need top-line speed, or great moves, or enormous size--he just needs to meet NFL thresholds and be able to survive an NFL workload. They could also target a nice fullback who can handle short-yardage situations to go with the replacement-level back. Their home-run hitters can be the extremely talented wide receiver corps they have built, potentially augmented with the return of Plaxico Burress.

I suspect that such a player will be available in the later rounds of the draft, which implies that the Giants should stay away from using a first rounder on a running back. That player may also be available on the free agent market.

So, my strategy going forward would be to look for the best-available player on the offensive line or defense in the first round, and to address the running back position with a couple of middle-tier free agents or a mid-round draft pick. I think this team is awfully close to being in the Super Bowl, and I strongly believe that if they had cut down on the mistakes this season, they would have been there quite handily. I think cutting ties with the mistake-prone running backs would be one way to signify that the turnovers will simply not be tolerated.

FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.

Comment 19 comments  |  6 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Wow!

Let me get this straight, you would get rid of a 24, 25 year old Ahmad Bradshaw but resign after a two year hiatus 34 year old Plaxico Burress? To much analysis, too much data, too much of too many other things to keep up with as well. Forget all of these made up numbers, AB is an up and coming player, he hasn’t reached his potential yet in my eyes, so why let him walk? Did we not have a back just a few seasons ago by the name of Tiki Barber who had a much worse fumbling problem that was solved? According to this new fangled data, Adrian Peterson wasn’t the back that we thought him to be because of his issues? I have a problem with over analysis, it leaves out the human aspect completely. It would be unwise to cut ties with AB based off of this season alone, he is a very good back who has made great strides since getting drafted. His blitz pickup has improved a ton for one. The Plax debate needs to be laid to rest because he is older and inactive and it would hinder our younger WR’s development. In essence, I’d take Ramses Barden and Victor Cruz over Plax. I’ll take the possible 13 to 14 man years that those two youngsters could give than the likely one subpar year we’d get from Plaxico.

by Robin's-meats-and-vegetables on Jan 30, 2011 12:07 PM EST reply actions  

Did you read the arguments?

No he never said he would take Plaxico over Bradshaw. If you’ve read it he says that with a great OLine a scrub of a RB can be a 1,000 yard rusher. Case and point Derrick Ward. But he never said he wanted Plaxico back but only that his skills can help more. It didn’t say “OMFG AB SUCK0R LESS GET PLAXICOOOOO1”

According to this new fangled data, Adrian Peterson wasn’t the back that we thought him to be because of his issues?

Yeah AP’s 1 fumble in 2010 is TOTALLY COMPARABLE to Bradshaw’s career year of fumbles in 2010. Yup. Definitely. Apples to apples comparison right there.

I have a problem with over analysis, it leaves out the human aspect completely
This is over analysis if you’re like in 5th grade. The human aspect of sports is probably the most overrated thing in sports. Determination, courage, valor, clutchiness don’t mean jack sh*t as long as the guy can perform. DeSean is the exact opposite of someone with great human aspects and he trumps all over it.

Forget all of these made up numbers, AB is an up and coming player, he hasn’t reached his potential yet in my eyes, so why let him walk?

Forget you I hate people who use their confirmation bias and use it as fact. If you are emotionally attached to something like the Giants eyes are the most useless thing when evaluating someone without bias. Proven scientific fact.

In essence, I’d take Ramses Barden and Victor Cruz over Plax

But what about T3H INTANGIBLES?!?!?!?

PLAX IS A WINNER!!!!!!!!! BARDEN AND CRUZ HAVEN’T DONE ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.

by Drizzzy on Jan 30, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Adrian Peterson was a fumbler until this year

if he fixed it and Tiki fixed it, why can’t Bradshaw? The original poster concedes he is an above average talent. So why cut ties with him for an average one rather than coach him up. I would only be in favor of dumping Bradshaw if his salary demands are outrageous. I do agree agree that an average back can succeed behind a great line and if we do lose AB, I wouldn’t look for a replacement with a high draft pick.

by G-FANinFL on Jan 31, 2011 10:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I've really enjoyed watching

AB’s rise from 7th round draft choice with off-field issues, to making the team, to being the third cog in the Earth wind and Fire wheel, to being a SB contributor to now the starting (sort of) tailback of the NY Giants. In short Im a big fan…. Keep the guy, despite the FIXABLE fumble problem. Plus I bought his jersey at the start of 2009 and I need to get a few more years out of it. I wont wear former players jerseys.

"Just when I thought you could'nt be any dumber, you go and do this... AND TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!!

by tommy d. on Jan 31, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

right there with ya tommy

except mine was with boss, i loved the story behind him, later round pick, wasnt used for much as a backup and then shockey went down, and of course i ordered shockeys jersey for christmas (before the broken leg) and was all for boss since ’07 and now with an authentic boss jersey from christmas ’09, im not ready to see him go either

"I like prime rib, and I'd love to win a Super Bowl" -Andy Reid

by nyg94 on Feb 7, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Bradshaw can work on his faults.

He by and large did after he was “demoted” for Jacobs. Now he just needs to make sure he can run the ball as effectively as he did before he got demoted and not fumble.

As with any Plaxico argument, there need to be a reminder that this is 2011, not 2007. Plax was a decoy and an afterthought in 2008 his last season here. What would he be 3 years later? If he never shot himself, would he even be here anyway? He might have been shot even if he didn’t shoot himself.

I’d draft a RB but unless its Ingram I wouldn’t go out of the way to get one unless he’s a kick returner too

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 30, 2011 12:24 PM EST reply actions  

He might have been shot, even if he didnt shoot himself.

 I nominate that for “Statement of The Month.” Instant classic

"Just when I thought you could'nt be any dumber, you go and do this... AND TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!!

by tommy d. on Jan 31, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Hold on a minute

Are you suggesting players be made to pay for their mistakes? More than not having your name called in the starting lineup?

Unfortunately TC seems to think you just sit and wait until the problem resolves itself.

by ct17 on Jan 30, 2011 1:18 PM EST reply actions  

we need a 3 headed monster

and AB needs to be part of it,or else we have to aquire two RB’s instead of just one.How about getting AB,Derrick Ward,and a pick to go along with BJ.

by Shaunthegiant on Jan 30, 2011 1:47 PM EST reply actions  

alot of great points

I still believe AB will keep his starting job and JB will be looking 2 be traded. I don’t believe he will be content 2 yrs in a row at #2. It maybe possible 2 see both backs back. Bcuz of AB fumblitus this pass season, and the fact that he drops in production towards the end of the season. All this drops his value. Both backs are great but either can carry the load alone. Both are a injury risk bcuz of how they run. If JB has truely excepted his roll and AB works on his ball protection we will see both back next year. But with the draft being b4 free agent signing this year. If we don’t pick up a back within the first 3 days of the draft I believe that will pretty much secure AB and BJ , 1 and 2 on the depth chart.

by hit_hard on Jan 30, 2011 3:48 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Plaxico is never comig back

Our backs are anything but elite. They are barely average players who play in front of a good OL and have a nice passing game to keep the DBs relatively deep.

There is no doubt in my mind that looking at the whole roster, were weakest at LB and RB

by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 30, 2011 7:06 PM EST reply actions  

I'm a little confused
I wasn’t sure how I would convert fumbles into yardage-deduction, but Football Outsiders made a chart once, and based on the proximity to the goal line, you can estimate the yardage per turnover being worth 49-57 yards. The Giants lost 7 fumbles, so you could argue that those losses cost the Giants about 370 yards. Subtract that from the 2,058 yards, and now all of a sudden, the Giants’ RB production looks a lot worse (4.0 Y/C).

I’m not sure you are interpretting that chart correctly. I believe that chart should be used to handicap a teams defense that just saw their offense cough up the football.

If AB or BJ fumble the ball, then that stops what could have been a promising drive, depending on where on the field they commited the turnover.

I would argue that losing 7 fumbles this year had little to do with either of their YPC. If anything at all, one could argue that their YPC could have been better than 4.9 if they did not turn the ball over and were able to get into a rythme and sustain those particular drives.

I understand your argument and am partial to agreeing with you, but I don’t think you can use this chart or example in order to prove your theory.

I would like to see both AB and BJ back and I would not be suprised if they both are. Unless they grab Ingram in the 1st (who I like what I am hearing about but I’m not in love with), then I am sure that there is a talented runner that can be picked up in the later rounds or UDFA.

I agree that the offensive line or defense should be addressed with a first round talent. But they should not reach for any particular player. With the exception of QB and maybe WR, they should choose the BPA at 19 straight up. I’m interested to see who that turns out to be.

"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next."

by Larry Soprano on Jan 31, 2011 9:11 AM EST reply actions  

I think what the OP means

Is that our RB’s 4.9ypc, 2400 yds, and 8 fumbles is equivalent in value to a RB platoon that only gets 4.0ypc, 2000yds, and 0 fumbles. Seems to make sense to me.

In my mind, I’d be okay with a platoon that had at least one consistent, “safe” back, like Ryan Grant, Joseph Addai, or T Jones who can get ~4.0 ypc with very few fumbles.

Look at this year’s conference championship teams. GB, Chicago, NYJ, and Pittsburgh. No stud backs. Just cheap, cost effective running backs on rookie contracts with a vet or two for the rest of the touches. Depending on how much AB asks for and if the FO believes BJ can play up to his contract, I’d be ok with going outside the team to look for new backs with fresher legs and/or lower price tags.

by Charles L on Jan 31, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Do not see how plax enters the argument

giant WRs are still good blockers. RBs take a great deal punishment and their careers sometimes to a screeching early end. Two words Ray Rice, would he have helped last year?

by lueeluee on Feb 1, 2011 1:48 AM EST reply actions  

i like your argument

but if bradshaw seeks a reasonable contract i think we should resign him. fumbling can be coached. bradshaw’s determined running style and instincts with the ball in his hands can not be coached. however if bradshaw seeks to get paid based off his yardage and such, and looks for a big pay day, see ya later buddy.

by The Blood of Eli on Feb 1, 2011 2:53 PM EST reply actions  

Focus on the Most Important Point

Instead of arguing whether we should resign bradshaw, let’s focus on the more important point of the post. I’d rather have an average back behind a great line, than a great back behind an average line. A great line also adds to the passing attack, and protects your QB. An average line will get your QB and RBs killed.

by dunk244 on Feb 1, 2011 3:06 PM EST reply actions  

I agree that RBs are relatively replacable

but just a note about Bradshaw’s fumbles: He only lost 6 fumbles, not 7, and even then he was pretty unlucky – I think that usually the offense recovers around half of all fumbles, so losing 6 out of seven is just bad luck and figures to even out in the future. That being said, he does have to cut down on them.

by Mount17 on Feb 2, 2011 10:01 AM EST reply actions  

Good Point

I will also point out that he lost some fumbles at crucial times and at least one in the red zone (TEN game). When and where he fumbled really bothered me. And I’m a huge AB fan.

"Just when I thought you could'nt be any dumber, you go and do this... AND TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!!

by tommy d. on Feb 2, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Very nice

take on the Giants issues and the idea of a replacement player. While i agree with your analysis I would rather hope (not a good word with a stat guy) that AB can learn to protect the ball better, as AP and Tiki did, and that extra talent he possesses will override a merely efficient back like BJGE. But I really do like this argument and see the merits in what your saying. Well done.

by dave56dj on Feb 3, 2011 1:22 AM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Big Blue View is the best independent site on the Internet for year-round news and discussion about the New York Giants.

Community Guidelines

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Ny_small
Alexander Christian
Small
Video I made of the Giants run to Superbowl XLVI

Recent FanPosts

Snv30403_small
35 years ago today... who had the better set list?
Small
Top 100 Pete Prisco
New-york-giants-eli-manning-bleeds-after-being-sacked-and-hit-the-head-new-meadowlands-stadium-new-jersey_small
Rolando McClain
Small
ELI's SNL TD dances in Madden
Small
Zak DeOssie Talks Super Bowl Ring
Small
NY Giants Run of Champions 5K Race
Eli-manning-banana_small
NY Giants Wallpapers for You 2.1
310467_150290438405726_136978946403542_166605_699112270_n_small
Don't ban me bro!!!

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Get Your Giants' Gear

160x600_ny_giants_medium


Editor-In-Chief

Ed_valentine_2_small Ed Valentine

Editors

Small brisulph

Authors

Mike_farley_small Mike Farley

Meme2_small Sean Kerr