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Positional Reviews: Tight End ... Where, Mostly, We Pass Judgment On Kevin Boss

Kevin Boss celebrates his game-winning touchdown this season against the Jacksonville Jaguars.  (Photo by Al Bello/Getty Images)

As we continue running through our series of New York Giants positional reviews, today is a perfect day to discuss the tight end position. In today's notebook, one of the items was about tight end Kevin Boss having hip surgery, so since the Bossman's name is in the news today let's talk tight end.

Boss has always been one of my favorite Giants, both as a player and as an interview subject. On the field he has proven to be as tough as anyone, taking a slew of vicious hits over the years and continuing to come back for more, and he has also been fairly productive when the ball has come his way. Off the field I have had the opportunity to interview him on a couple of occasions and he is as gracious and cooperative as you might imagine.

All of that said, what we are really discussing today is whether or not we believe Boss is the future answer at tight end for the Giants.

Star-divide

For the past couple of seasons I have been hoping to see Boss's role in the Giants' passing attack expand. He went from 33 catches in 2008 to 42 in 2009, and I was really hoping to see 50 or more in 2010. Instead, Boss caught only 35 balls this season.

Did the Giants use him less? No. Eli Manning threw 65 balls in Boss's direction in 2009, and 66 this season. The difference? In 2009, Boss dropped one ball. In 2010, Boss dropped 11 -- an amazing 16.6% of passes thrown in his direction. Among tight ends, only Brandon Pettigrew of Detroit (12) dropped more passes. Four wide receivers, Brandon Marshall of Miami, Steve Johnson of Buffalo, Wes Welker of New England and Pierre Garcon of Indianapolis, had 13 drops. All of those receivers were targeted more than 100 times.

So, what's up with Boss? Is he ever going to be a 60-70 catch weapon for the Giants? Did he just have an off year? Pro Football Focus graded Boss at -2.9 overall and -4.8 in the passing game in 2010. In 2009, PFF had Boss at +17.4. Boss's pass-catching obviously suffered in 2010, and his run-blocking was not as good, either. PFF graded him -2.9 in that category, after being a +10.2 the previous season.

Boss came into 2010 having had off-season ankle surgery, and he was slowed in training camp. We now know he was bothered throughout the season by a hip injury. He suffered another concussion. Was he slowed by the injuries? Probably some, but none of those should have caused him to drop more balls.

Boss, 27, is now a free agent. The decline in production leaves the Giants with a very difficult decision to make. Do they let Boss walk and rebuild the position around Travis Beckum, Bear Pascoe or a tight end acquired via draft or free agency? Do they pass off 2010 as a poor season from a good player and pay Boss big money? Do they try to re-sign him at a lower base salary. maybe to an incentive-laden type contract?

The Giants, as we know, are traditional in their thinking about the tight end. Yet, it's pretty obvious that an effective tight end could really help Manning. Third-down, goal-line and in the poor weather conditions the Giants often play in toward the end of the season. Boss made some nice catches this season, but overall he probably hurt his quarterback more than he helped him.

I would not object to the Giants bringing Boss back. I would also, however, not blame them for moving on and trying to upgrade this position. What would you do with Boss, Giants fans?

Overall Grade: Wet Willie

Before I finish, I should spend a little time discussing Beckum. He caught 13 balls this season, including two for touchdowns. He was on the field a lot more this season, and with the amount of time he played I might have expected more catches. Which leads me to this question: Do the Giants not use him well (possible), or does he simply have difficulty running crisp routes and getting open (also possible)? He can catch, though he still can't block. Overall, he is a disappointment after two seasons.

Overall Grade: Wet Willie

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i hope they bring him back but agree with you, ED...

i don’t blame them for making a business decision and let him walk, but i hope thay work something out. Boss is by far my favorite Giant in a long time and i wish him all the success in the world even if its on another team, he truly seems like a stand up guy, and maybe that will be considered when the front office makes their decision

by LT's Will Power on Jan 13, 2011 10:27 AM EST reply actions  

i think suffered concussions

can absolutely contribute to more drops. neurologically and for fear of getting another.

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

HIRE Josh McDaniels !!!!

by Troy O on Jan 13, 2011 10:28 AM EST reply actions  

he reverted

and if he’s realistic about his talent he will accept a more incentive laden deal. still think he can be good. in the meantime, get beckum to the weight room. pronto. he STILL hasnt dropped a pass thrown his way.

by section_112 on Jan 13, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

that's what i was gonna add to this

concussions gotta affect reaction time, as well as like you said, afraid to take another hit. all these smart ass people in here…..i gotta find a dumber blog.

Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
I will not - lose! -Jay Z-

by wilddre22 on Jan 13, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks , i think..

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

HIRE Josh McDaniels !!!!

by Troy O on Jan 14, 2011 12:52 AM EST up reply actions  

he almost seemed like

the kind of TE who are always the receiving end of lots of hard hits, like Todd Heap (and for no good explanation!) But I like him. I also think he would not command as much attention as Giant fans seem to think on the market. So let us just hope we can bring him back for a reasonable price.

by bonwei on Jan 13, 2011 10:38 AM EST reply actions  

good point

It’s not a coincidence that he has this many drops the same year Eli sets records for interceptions. I don’t think Eli’s passes were as crisp and on-the-money as in the past. OTOH – Boss did have some straight drops.

by boilerdan on Jan 14, 2011 9:16 AM EST up reply actions  

exactly

He also has a history of running too tall. he’s 6’6" or so, so he needs to get lower. Then he’ll be giving more shots than he’s taking

I like linebackers. I collect 'em. You can't have too many good ones. - Bill Parcells

by T_Hutch on Jan 14, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Boss

He had a down year with the drops…but I like him on the Giants…I’m spoiled since I watched Zeke Mo’ & Bavaro…then we had Shokey…boss is for better or worst a combo of all the above…shockey was good but sufferd from drops too..Zeke prior to his knee injury was very well rounded..bavaro Legandary…I think boss is a 40-45 catch TE…nothing fancy but serviceable ! Beck is under used…he’s more T gonzales / Clark ! We need to add depth here…but I’m all for resigning Boss !

wake me up at draft time..

by Mr.Williams on Jan 13, 2011 10:41 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

I couldn't agree more

Ditto what Mr. Williams wrote.

I would like to include that we should sign him at a lower salary, but include incentives.

by TonyManero on Jan 13, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Have to resign him

if for no other reason than a TE that has worked with Manning and knows the offense.
Beckum under/mis-used.

Pascoe comes back to TE and we get a FA FB.
Need to sign a 4th rounder to bring in competition.

by SNORKIS on Jan 13, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

He also

has one of the best names in football. Can’t pass up on that.

Devils Hockey 2010-2011: The quest for Adam Larsson!
(Tallinder must go!)

by Mykey24 on Jan 13, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think Boss is the answer

When Reese sent Shockey packing we supposedly had this great TE in Boss to replace him. I’m sorry I just haven’t seen it. Boss has overall been below average. At his best he was still barely average. I think Boss is given a lot of slack under the circumstances that he came to hold the position (to question Boss would be to question Reese dealing Shockey). At this point I think you have to look elsewhere for a TE. Boss doesn’t have the ability from an athletic or route running standpoint to consistently get open. Add the drops and he really isn’t a dependable piece to keep the offense moving or a big play threat. He is at best a #2 TE, but he lacks the blocking abilities to actually do that job well and would cost too much probably for that role. I think it is time to wish Boss well wherever he goes because he is a good guy, but we need a good TE.

by bigblue777 on Jan 13, 2011 10:44 AM EST reply actions  

Shockey started acting like an azz,

That is why JR traded him, JR did not get rid of Shockey because of the Bosman. Boss is not a star Shockey was.

The question is if we don’t sign Boss, who are we gonna replace him with, the Draft looks thin at the TE position? Beckum – who knows, and Bear might be the FB next season.

by Late for Dinner on Jan 13, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

There was a whole lot of "we don't need him" talk

A lot of garbage about how Boss stepped in for him on the SB run so we didn’t need Shockey anymore. I thought it was BS then, and I feel it has been proven out as BS now. Boss was a JR pick. I really do think JR is just enough of an egomaniac to ship Shockey with the thought that “his guy” would be the replacement.

by bigblue777 on Jan 13, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

The NY Media was the ones going on about the Giants don't need Shockey

Shockey asked JR for the trade and I know for a fact Mr. Mara sat down with Shockey and asked him to reconsider. Look we will probably never really know internals behind the divorce of Shockey and the Giants. Some say Shockey was pissed because the Giants would not let him be on the sidelines with Crutches at the SB, some say they only gave Shockey light beer in the box. Bottom line is Shockey wanted out of NY and has not looked back since. JR only traded Shockey after he started acting up in practice and got into a screaming match with JR; I love Shockey but he was making himself a distraction at that point he had to go.
I’m sure the two don’t care for one another, but there is no way JR got rid of Shockey to keep Boss. I think the real culprit was how Killdrive was using Shockey in the offense. The only bright side to the whole debacle is Shockey is a shell of himself in New Orleans.

by Late for Dinner on Jan 13, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

i've thrown myself out of a few bars for only serving light beer

so i understand his plight….but kidding aside Boss was never looked at as the savior, at least not to anyone with football knowledge. Boss was more of a in the right place at the right time for the big catch guy. we knew he was never gonna catch 70 balls in a year.

and i don’t think Shockey is crying any tears in his full head beer don’t there in the bayou. he’s got a SB game winning catch, and more rings on his fingers than any of the current Giants do.

Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
I will not - lose! -Jay Z-

by wilddre22 on Jan 13, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

we haven't missed Shockey

He’s missed at least 3 full games every year and has had his typical nagging injuries every season since he left. He has 6 TD in 3 years to Boss’ 16 TD. He does have that 2nd ring but it’s not like the Saints wouldn’t have won without him or that we would have won another SB with him.

by bgn1987 on Jan 13, 2011 11:40 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah injuries will be his downfall

he’s just one of those players that plays hard, and his body suffers for it. it’s a catch-22 – you love his hard nose game, but hate that he limps off the field every 10 plays from it.

it’s not fair to say he wasn’t a big reason the Saints won the bowl. if i’m not mistaken, he was one of the top options for brees that in recepts that year, and like i said, caught the game winning TD. those things cannot be denied, and shouldn’t be taken away from him.

conversely, it’s unfair to assume that we couldn’t have at least gone back to the big dance with him. think about what was our downfall in ‘08; no receiving threat after, well after you know what happened. all we had left was domenik hixon to throw to. i think the big man would have made defenses like Philly(who he manhandled in his career) gameplan a little differently, don’t cha think?

Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
I will not - lose! -Jay Z-

by wilddre22 on Jan 14, 2011 8:34 AM EST up reply actions  

That's unlikely

After the 2008 season, I went thru the play by plays after Plax went down, they basically ran the same offense and just popped in Hixon for Plax

No adjustment to play calling, no adjustment to personnel.

For example, it was obvious that without a coverage gap to take advantage of,Toomers lack of speed meaner he could be covered by any CB. But they kept rolling him out there, even though it helped opponents putting 9 in the box.

The proper adjustment was to use Moss (I know, eek x10), simply because he was a true downfield threat. They had clinched the playoffs, and if they kept letting Moss run deep, till he and Eli got some chemistry. Then by seasons end they would have had a chance to operate more effectively against Philly in the playoffs.

It’s my biggest complaint with the offense, it stubbornly focuses on execution when a balance between execution and mismatches would allow it be way more efficient.

by trueblue63 on Jan 14, 2011 9:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Your argument doesn't make sense

Not to be a jerk, but yeah they just inserted Hixon and didn’t succeed when doing so. That was really their only option because they had no other weapon. Had Shockey still been here there would have been another weapon and there would have been more options to force defences to adjust. I think that is the entire point that wildre22 is making. Moss would have done nothing to demand the attention from defenses that Shockey would have. Sure Moss could run fast, but he would just drop it. That is pretty much exactly what we were getting out of Hixon, so I don’t see the added value. I don’t see how anything in your argument can logically be connected to saying it is unlikely that Shockey would have helped in that season.

by bigblue777 on Jan 14, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

T Gonzalez won't catch 70 in this offense

If you have an offense based on execution instead of creating mismatches it squanders what Boss brings to the table

He is big and fast, if you use the WRs to drive theDBs downfield, you ought to have Boss in space against a LB or a S. That should be a mismatch, and you shouldn’t have concussion hits.

And if it’s on Eli for throwing high, it’s doubly on the coaches for not adjusting, that’s their job, I’m pretty sure Eli is trying to throw it exactly perfect.

by trueblue63 on Jan 14, 2011 9:03 AM EST up reply actions  

i think triple 7 got what i was saying

The more offensive weapons you have on the field, the greater your chances are to succeed. And hixon/boss doesn’t put the fear in DC’s hearts like plax/shockey did. Minus plax, a shockey in the slot or running a post up the middle might have meant a small difference in the outcome of 08.

Plus, shockey had some of his best numbers in the KG era, so even KG recognized the talent he had there.

Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
I will not - lose! -Jay Z-

by wilddre22 on Jan 15, 2011 5:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Shockey isn't missed

even with a Boss less than we hoped for.

All you hear about is the past, the past... the past is the !@#$ing past, this is the present.
THIS IS TEMPORARY! A CHAMPIONSHIP IS PERMANENT
-Michael Strahan

by Willgfass on Jan 13, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I miss him

sadface

Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
I will not - lose! -Jay Z-

by wilddre22 on Jan 13, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I miss shockey's ability

but his personality i could care less for
we do need improvement on the offense but i think letting boss go might not be the right solution since their is not a clear cut replacement. first a little creativity on routes and play calling might help. a new qb coach for eli might also help. both improvements could shape boss into an effective option on the offense

I guess I just don't know

by OregonBlu on Jan 13, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahem

The team doesn’t.

All you hear about is the past, the past... the past is the !@#$ing past, this is the present.
THIS IS TEMPORARY! A CHAMPIONSHIP IS PERMANENT
-Michael Strahan

by Willgfass on Jan 13, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

neither do i

sure the egomaniac going to NO was a waste of a christmas present in his jersey, but hes still a pain in the ass, gotta love his tattoos though

"I like prime rib, and I'd love to win a Super Bowl" -Andy Reid

by nyg94 on Jan 13, 2011 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

There used to be a whole section on Wiki

solely about his tattoos. Now it’s shared with “personal info”, but still. A section on them

All you hear about is the past, the past... the past is the !@#$ing past, this is the present.
THIS IS TEMPORARY! A CHAMPIONSHIP IS PERMANENT
-Michael Strahan

by Willgfass on Jan 13, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, and Beckum is still a bust

He can’t block, so he can’t play from the line which makes him useless as a TE. He is just a big slow receiver. Sure he could be a good matchup on a LB, but when you always split him out wide the other team just matches him up with a DB. Beckum doesn’t have the speed, quickness, or route running ability to get open against a DB. That makes him pretty much useless all around.

by bigblue777 on Jan 13, 2011 10:48 AM EST reply actions  

Well said

I dont like beckum. but since he was drafted by the giants and reese took him, people will always give him a chance.

by Nfpdawg on Jan 13, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I always like to give a player 3 to 4 years before calling them a buts however...

In Beckum’s case I am willing to make an exception, the guy’s blocking sucks and pretty much when he got his opportunity this past season Hagan ate his lunch.

by Late for Dinner on Jan 13, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

hey! who you callin a buts?

"Oh sir, the Giants of New York took on the Packers of Green Bay. And in the end, the Giants triumphed by kicking an oblong ball made of pigskin through a big "H". It was a most ripping victory."

Wish that happened this year....oh well.

by jcalafiore on Jan 13, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

i agree

"Oh sir, the Giants of New York took on the Packers of Green Bay. And in the end, the Giants triumphed by kicking an oblong ball made of pigskin through a big "H". It was a most ripping victory."

Wish that happened this year....oh well.

by jcalafiore on Jan 14, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Boss

Would last a little longer without some of those way too high “buddy” passes thrown his way.

Good solid player. I think the G-men should keep him since there are more pressing needs to use draft picks and free agent money on.

Beckum was picked as a luxury. The QB and the OL make 6 bodies on the field. Who are your other 5? Usually two WRs-Nicks and Smith-one RB-and one TE. That leaves one spot open. Do you go FB? 2nd TE? 3rd WR? 2nd RBOr an H-back? That means Gilbride has to choose between putting Manningham, Pascoe, etc…out there or Beckum.

Beckum is a role player and a good one. He is not a starting TE, nor was he intended to be one.

by MattinNJ on Jan 13, 2011 10:49 AM EST reply actions  

It was a shot that Reese took

and appears to have missed at this time.

by SNORKIS on Jan 13, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I think ....

Reese was looking for a version of Cooley. Someone to get open 1 on 1 against LBs.

I think he’s underutilized, but what do I know.

by MattinNJ on Jan 13, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Reese picked him with the idea that having another slot weapon like Smith

was a need. And it is, or at least it was glaring when SS12 went down. I dunno how anyone can call him a bust. Its really not like when he’s out there, and they throw to him, that he doesn’t catch it.

Sure, he’s not a complete TE. I dunno why he’s thought of as one. He is what he is, a weapon. And its pretty embarrassing that a team that was in drastic need of a chain mover, has one, and didn’t use it.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 13, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree - Beckum is a weapon

AND a poorly used one at that.

Boss is only worth keeping at a much lower salary.

I could see both going away and not lose any sleep. Giants do not have the DNA to get creative with Beckum. And Boss…is just average…but still with some potential. Strange as that sounds. 2011 was a bad season for him. But you have to hedge your financial bets

by MSP Giant on Jan 13, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

We'll not lose sleep here cuz they ain't used right

or at least Boss can be better, but he’s really not a great TE. Beckum can be and if he was in a place like say….Indy? They’d be laughing their asses off at us.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 13, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

If Beckum can improve on his blocking

I also agree that he would be a great weapon and at the same time make our play calling less obvious. As for Boss, yes he was targeted a lot, but I’m not sure that he was the primary receiver on the play…. when he is though, it’s usually a big gainer. The drops have to be cleaned up but this is the first year it’s been a huge problem for him.

by KumaBlue42 on Jan 13, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Beckum could be very good

But he is a receiver first and a blocker…third. But there is a place for that if the OC can be at all creative.

Whitten, Cooley, Clark in Indy are all great receivers and adequate at best blockers.

But Giants are a run first team and TE MUST be able to block. So we will loose talent like Beckum.

by MSP Giant on Jan 13, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Witten

is the only cowturd I would take, because he is one of the best blocking TEs as well as receiving TEs in the game. He’s maybe the best 2 way TE in the league, and Clark isn’t no scab himself

by ManningHam and Cheese on Jan 14, 2011 12:12 AM EST up reply actions  

he was a 3rd round pick

the last one in the 3rd too with their supplemental pick. Lot of teams take fliers on players with their picks.

I still think its more Gilbride than anything.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 13, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Beckum was supposed to be a mismatch – too big for the DBs, too fast for the LBs. So far it’s more that he’s too small for TE and too slow for the slot. I don’t know whether it’s a lack of imagination on Gilbride’s part or the fact that it seems to take the Giants’ receivers a while to pick up the system or possibly that he just doesn’t have the ability to create mismatches that Reese had hoped for.
I agree also about the flier part – Manningham was an end-of-third-round flyer that worked out well.

Mickey C

by Mickey C on Jan 13, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Errr brain fart

Sintim and Beatty were the second round busts that year…

by bigblue777 on Jan 13, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Manningham was a little different though

he was maybe the best, certainly the most productive WR in college for 2 seasons. He slipped because he likes to smoke trees. And jury is still out on Sintim and Beatty. Sintim might never be anything more than a situational pass rusher, maybe a serviceable Linebacker in a 3-4, and Beatty played well at times this season, and should be our RT of the future once McKenzie is done or gone. To say they are busts is a bit of a stretch.

by ManningHam and Cheese on Jan 13, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree on Ham

He was a top 15 pick until he decided to smoke weed before the combine.

by bgn1987 on Jan 13, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

KG & TC

Which one has ever used a TE or H-back with any regularity or success

It begs the question, when will Reese get to hire his own coach. Seems clear theses two have some disconnects that are more than minor.

by trueblue63 on Jan 14, 2011 9:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Boss

I wouldnt’ spend much on him if at all. All those head injuries worry me and the drops were a big issue this year. Dunno how the draft looks on tight ends, but if there’s a good guy who’s going to be around in 2nd or 3rd round, may be worth it.

As for Beckum, I think he was under-utilized or under-targeted. I frequently saw him open, but Eli wasn’t looking his way. I’d almost rather that screw the H-back/TE thing and just line him up as a slot receiver, he’d be vicious.

by TNYFBG on Jan 13, 2011 10:50 AM EST reply actions  

same with boss

and it was the same with shockey (but shockey is talker and ive seen him point at eli when he misses him open)

i dont know if its gilbride and the offense or eli but for someone reason TEs are always running routes but never get looks.

by Nfpdawg on Jan 13, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Shockey had 57 grabs in 2007 in just 14 games

He had over 60 the year before. So with Gilbride and with Eli Shockey was getting more catches. That’s a combo of being better at getting open and catching the ball. Can’t just blame it on the QB and the OC, the TEs obviously aren’t holding up their end of the deal.

by bigblue777 on Jan 13, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Shockey is a beast though, and he gets open

Great blocker, great hands, and he will lower the boom. Shockey was a Pro Bowler, wish we had a TE with his skill set back in the offense.

Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 5...

by wangstu13 on Jan 13, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

There is FA

You can’t address everything in the draft, and you can’t address everything in FA. Some combination there of is what gets you there. If Boss were under contract I wouldn’t be calling out for him to be cut or anything like that because he is “serviceable” and we’ve got nothing else right now. The situation is though that he is a FA himself.is he worth resigning is very different than should he be cut. If it is a reasonable marginal cost difference to get a better TE in FA then I think you do it. There is also the possibility that other needs are addressed in FA freeing higher round picks for TE.

by bigblue777 on Jan 14, 2011 12:23 AM EST up reply actions  

"Boss made some nice catches this season, but overall he probably hurt his quarterback more than he helped him."

I think its the complete opposite. Eli leads boss into too many hits by always throwing at him late or too high. some of boss’ drops were late throws, errant throws, or helicopter throws by eli. I do agree they must be caught forever

what disappointed me most about boss this year has been his blocking. He has been a terrific blocker for years. I think the hip surgery must’ve limited him. Defenders were shedding blocks against him so easily this year it was shocking sometimes

by Nfpdawg on Jan 13, 2011 10:50 AM EST reply actions  

TE is a check down

for Eli mostly and very few drag routes or quick outs or curls set for the TE in Killdrives offense.

Late throws that occur as a result of the actual TE routes are because Eli does stay with his primary WRs too long

by SNORKIS on Jan 13, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

but according to most

boss never gets open. I can’t recall how many times FOX shows a rerun of the previous play and that kevin boss was open

by Nfpdawg on Jan 13, 2011 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

And the ball wasn't thrown his way

because Eli couldn’t trust him. He dropped too many catches this year for Eli to have enough faith in him.

by ManningHam and Cheese on Jan 14, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Eli just missed him on that one

When anyone is that wide open, you throw it to them. Did he stop trusting Nicks and Mario for tipping passes.

by KumaBlue42 on Jan 14, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Boss can be productive if we utilized him more.

But imo, he is slow coming out of his breaks and lacks separation in the short routes..but down the field(+10-15 yds) he is absolutely a good threat.

#Blocking / he has gone from a pass catching te to a blocking te. Crazy.

"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"

by semsemma on Jan 13, 2011 10:51 AM EST reply actions  

i wouldnt say he is slow out of his breaks

i think he needs to make sharper cuts to get better separation

by Nfpdawg on Jan 13, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Did someone call me....

In all seriousness, 1- I put the lack of TE productivity back on Gilbride, he has never had a good offensive play calling for TE throughtout his career, refer to his days with the Oilers, TE were/are none existant in his system. We def. need a new OC. 2- Eli has really done Boss wrong, all passes thrown to him have been HIGH and Boss has PAID THE PRICE due to again, Eli’s erratic/high throws.

by Bavaro 89 on Jan 13, 2011 10:53 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah

Some of this is Eli. He puts Boss at risk unnecessarily.

And I love the sig, Bavaro is the model these guys should follow.

All the Giants should play like Mark Bavaro.
Tom Quinn Must Go!
On second thought, let's not blame players or coaches, they are not responsible. The unsupportive fans are to blame.

by UnknownJintsFan on Jan 13, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Alligator arms.

I will have alligator arms if I were to be laid out in back-to back-to back games like Boss did in the middle of the season…that one high pass from Eli to him against the – first- Eagles game was a travesty. Like someone said " He maybe fearful of being hurt again"

by Bavaro 89 on Jan 13, 2011 10:59 AM EST reply actions  

The Drops

I thoguht he looked skittish this year going over the middle, and all the drops are what stands out in my mind.

I’m indifferent if he stays, but worry about him making the big catch anymore.

Any stat out there, how many of his drops turned into tipped Interceptions? That I would be curious to see.

by Woogie526 on Jan 13, 2011 11:04 AM EST reply actions  

Boss not Beckum

While Boss was not up to par, he is entitled to one off year. Cannot make a definite decision until we see what he is to be paid and what else is available.

Let’s keep in mind, Beckum is like a grandma when it comes to blocking. Still say a wasted roster space the way we use him.

Also depends on what happens at FB. If we get a good FB and can move the Bear back, more chance to let Boss loose. If not and we need Bear at FB, we have to keep Boss since we have no depth.

All the Giants should play like Mark Bavaro.
Tom Quinn Must Go!
On second thought, let's not blame players or coaches, they are not responsible. The unsupportive fans are to blame.

by UnknownJintsFan on Jan 13, 2011 11:08 AM EST reply actions  

boss is a good player

But not a top echelon TE. A truly great TE would have made a huge difference when Smith went down. I would be sorry to see Boss on the team next year, but I’ll bet they could do better.

I too noticed Beckam open a lot, but Eli choosing to go to other receivers. He’s got good hands. But again, if he had great potential in the slot, the opportunity was right there when SS went down. Hagans basically beat out Beckam for that role. It’s hard to call him a bust, because he’s caught every ball that’s come to him, but I don’t see where he fits. Not strong enough to play TE, evidently not fast enough to play WR.

Pascoe is a good utility player. I think we’re more likely to see him on the roster than Boss next year, still in the #2 role.

by blumag on Jan 13, 2011 11:12 AM EST reply actions  

Love Boss

Bad year
Hearing footsteps?
Too many concussions?
Would keep him
Depending on $

by blue gonz on Jan 13, 2011 11:25 AM EST reply actions  

Sure

Sign me up for that no problem. But, if I’m Boss’s agent, with his concussion history, I’m asking for more guaranteed

by TNYFBG on Jan 13, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

boss

not falling on the fumble in the packer game also was a horrible mistake by mister boss. his production was not good, tight ends cannot drop passes. when you are not a home run threat you must catch balls that hit your hands.

he is far from elite and the clock is ticking.

by stuart adel on Jan 13, 2011 12:00 PM EST reply actions  

But,

very teams have an elite TE.

by SNORKIS on Jan 13, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Fact: The Boss man dropped too many passes this year and is too susceptible to concussions

We need to look for an up and coming replacement -

Please get Phil Simms in the Hall of Fame

by The Curse on Jan 13, 2011 12:21 PM EST reply actions  

Upgrade if you can

But I don’t see anybody in the draft that get’s me excieted, so unless a good FA comes available I would sign the Bossman, maybe draft a blocking TE and get rid of Beckum

by Late for Dinner on Jan 13, 2011 12:29 PM EST reply actions  

If we bring him back...

we should be a back up. We will go after Zach Miller(Raiders) if he isn’t franchised. If he is… then he draft a TE who can play now.

Wanna Fight?

by jdaking123 on Jan 13, 2011 12:35 PM EST reply actions  

If we can get Miller great!

However the draft is not stocked with a bunch of good TE’s this year.

by Late for Dinner on Jan 13, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I love me some Bossman

However, we need better production from him. 11 drops is way too many. I am looking for the Giants to upgrade the TE position in the offseason, while our main priorities this offseason should be SS12, Cofield, Bradshaw in that order.

Die hard Giants fan since wide Right! I was 5...

by wangstu13 on Jan 13, 2011 12:54 PM EST reply actions  

Boss didn't have an off year

He is what he is. An average TE, runs average routes, average speed, average/above average blocker, average, at best, hands, average player all around. A couple of the drops were Eli’s fault yes, but the guy is 6’6’’, throwing high to him shouldn’t be that much of an issue. A lot of the drops were inexcusable. I can remember a couple of drops where the ball was essentially lobbed into his arms and he just flat out did not catch it. Boss will never be what Shockey was, which is what Eli needs in his TE, a big target who can create mismatches. Boss can not do that. Linebackers are as fast or faster than him, DBs can essentially run his route for him, all he has going for him is a height advantage over DBs and most linebackers. Eli needs a weapon at TE, not a 4th option. Boss can not be relied on to be a go to guy, and he is often Eli’s last target in his progression. He needs a Dallas Clark, Gonzalez, Vernon Davis type guy, someone who can run precise routes, flat out out-run Linebackers, and Dominate any DB. I just don’t see that in Boss. He’s a starting quality player, but he’s not right for the Giants. He belongs on a team that uses their TE more as a blocker than a pass catcher. The Giants need a TE that can be a weapon in the passing game, someone who has to be game planned for, can demand double coverage, and can create mismatches and win said mismatches mostly every time. I mean, he’s a good guy, and a solid player, but when a defense can put their worst cover Linebacker on the TE and take him out of most ball games, he’s just not the type of TE we need. I would love to see the Giants run an offense similar to the Packers. Use the pass to set up the run (more so last year with GB, grant was a beast), use more 3-4 WR and 2 pass catching TE sets as base formation. We have the WRs, no question and Boss would be the perfect 2nd TE, who can chip block then release into the flat or into the middle as a check down guy, but we’re missing a true #1 TE. I honestly feel besides LT, that is our offense’s biggest weakness. Teams can essentially take our TE out of the passing game, leaving say 3 corners and 2 safeties to cover 3 WR. If we could get Zack Miller And use a combination of Beckum and Pascoe, our offense could be near unstoppable. Think about what MIller is, and what he’s done, as basically the number #1 option in his offense, with no QB and below average WRs around him. He’s the type of guy we need, and he could bring this offense to a new level.

by ManningHam and Cheese on Jan 13, 2011 12:59 PM EST reply actions  

Well see if

you are gonna start talking sense then this isn’t gonna be any fun.

by SNORKIS on Jan 13, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

His hands

When he came into the league, Boss’s hands were the one thing I thought were exceptional. He caught the ball so softly and naturally for a big guy. After this year though… I’m not sure how to judge. I tried to find a split by game of when his drops came, I remember thinking it seemed that after the concussion he seemed like his concentration was off. I have no stats to back that up though. The ones you describe where they floated right into his chest and he dropped them anyway… those really stand out.

I bring it up because you’re right… in every other way he’s basically average. If his hands become a long term issue, ouch. Oddly another position where the Giants have a “decent” player as a free agent, but if they don’t resign that “decent” player, they are in an absolutely-must-address position.

Beckum… I dunno. What do you do with a TE who really doesn’t block? Everyone always talks about how he’s too small… he’s listed at 6-3 239. Is that really too small, or is he lacking in skill set? I know I remember when Boss was out, he seemed absolutely clueless trying to block people (and I hate trying to critique blocking… it just stood out like crazy). I don’t see them not giving him another year to try and fit in somehow, but on the other hand I don’t see how he really enters into the TE conversation. If he’s the second TE… they need another one, conversation over.

by Oppenheimer919 on Jan 13, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Just ask Peyton

what a true #1 TE can do for you. Dallas Clark has been Peyton’s go to guy for years, and when he went down this season, Peyton went through easily his worst stretch as a pro since he was a rookie, and it was no coincidence. Think about that, that’s how much a true #1 TE can help. Peyton is a great player in an average offense, but with Clark in there, that offense becomes dynamic. Eli needs that guy. Our WRs trump what Indy has, and with a #1 TE, our passing game would be incredibly difficult to stop.

by ManningHam and Cheese on Jan 13, 2011 1:06 PM EST reply actions  

The Giants have apparently forgotten how to evaluate TE talent.

We had Shiancoe and never even tried to throw to him. Two or three years ago Boss had better hands, was quicker, and caught the ball whether it was high or tight. Of course we didn’t throw to him either. So what tight end would want to come here and get ignored by KG?

by giant fan since 57 on Jan 13, 2011 1:20 PM EST reply actions  

Shiancoe who knew

He was supposed to be our blocking TE, since Shockey was going to get most of the passes thrown his way. Some players just work hard to improve themselves and develop more than we thought they could and I think Shiancoe is one of them. He is a far more accomplished TE than anybody expeted him to be.

by Late for Dinner on Jan 13, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Shiancoe's not that great

Shiancoe had 47 catches this season as the primary receiving option and 2 touchdowns

Sydney Rice was hurt all year
Harvin missed every other week
Randy Moss did nothing
and they don’t have anyone else who catches passes

Besides that Boss had more yards and more touchdowsn this year as an after thought in the Giants offense,.

Sure he’s better then the Giants thought he’d be, but Boss has had more receiving yards then Shiancoe the best two seasons.

Last year he found the end zone all the time (11) this year he was a non-factor most of the season.

by giantsgab.com on Jan 13, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

draft Stocker

he’s a good kid….and his name kinda resembles Shockey….maybe we can convince him to get tattoos and make an ass outta himself too?

by andiamo708 on Jan 13, 2011 1:25 PM EST reply actions  

Then KG and TC

Will ask him to float the seam 15 yards down field and take it for the team

It’s why Shockey wanted out (add in his own inflated ego)

by trueblue63 on Jan 14, 2011 9:29 AM EST up reply actions  

tough acts to follow

Everyone who is a dog person has had that one dog that was perfect, that not other dog will ever be able to live up to, no matter how great a dog it is. We had Mark Bavarro, IMHO one of the two best tight ends ever to play (with Gonzalez), and the most complete TE I’ve ever seen, if only for a few years. So no tight end will ever be quite able to measure up to him. We also had Shockey, who, despite being a jerk, was a force and a complete TE. These are tough acts to follow, and in my opinion Boss does not. I think he is good enough if we are not going to feature the TE in our offense, but if we do utilize the position more in the future we will need to upgrade. It just doesn’t seem like a good year to do it through the draft. Or, rather not to put a high pick on it and just hope we get lucky with a mid round pick. I like Boss, just don’t see him contributing much more than he does, even if the position does get more plays called for it.

by NortheastKingdom on Jan 13, 2011 1:34 PM EST reply actions  

TE

An upgrade is needed! Boss is serviceable at best. Beckum is a bigger version of Sinorice Moss. It would help immeasureably to have an Impact player at this position. Ernie pulled the trigger one year early with Shockey, when the following year Dallas plucked Witten. We also could’ve kept Shiancoe, who is better than Boss.

by Cruz Control on Jan 13, 2011 1:39 PM EST reply actions  

yea

I’d like to know who thought letting Shiancoe go instead of re-signing him for what was essentially back up money, was a good idea.

by ManningHam and Cheese on Jan 13, 2011 1:44 PM EST reply actions  

What a great evaluation he had.....

35 receptions in four years…. his whole career with the Giants.

http://www.nfl.com/players/visantheshiancoe/profile?id=SHI025168

I think the Vikings have proven that he can play the position, maybe better than Shockey.

by giant fan since 57 on Jan 13, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

47 cathces for 530 yards and 2 touchdowns in 16 games played as their only receiving option is better than Shockey?

by giantsgab.com on Jan 13, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Beckum

Ed I think you’re being a little harsh on Travis Beckum and was as Giants fans do.

he had 13 catches which is’nt a ton, but what #2 TE’s had more then Beckum?

Not many.

Martellus Bennet

the two backup tight ends in New Orleans (they caught over 60 balls combined), Jeff King, Andrew Quarless, and Fred Davis of the Redskins are about all.

I’m curious how many targets Beckum had and how many catches he had. Do you have those numbers Ed

I know Beckum has been dissapointing for expecdtations, but I also remember that he had at least three or four big catches this year that were overturned by penalties.

by EliManCrushing on Jan 13, 2011 1:58 PM EST reply actions  

Not saying Beckum shouldn't do more

I’m just saying for what the Giants have him to he does well. He’s a willing blocker, he contributes on special teams, and he has good hands.

by EliManCrushing on Jan 13, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

What I don't get

Is why Beckum cannot block. He is very strong, proved that at combine. He is not big but not too small.

Blocking is not rocket science if you have the size and strength. I did it without either, just used smarts. Interior line blocking is a bit harder but he is blocking on the move, even easier because you use position and speed more than strength.

Why can’t he learn this?

All the Giants should play like Mark Bavaro.
Tom Quinn Must Go!
On second thought, let's not blame players or coaches, they are not responsible. The unsupportive fans are to blame.

by UnknownJintsFan on Jan 13, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Blocking is about "want to" more than anything

Maybe the guy is mentally soft and simply doesn’t want to block the defender more than the defender wants to blow through him.

by bigblue777 on Jan 14, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Beckum

In 2009, he played 65 snaps and caught eight balls. In 2010, he played 276 snaps and caught just 13. That’s more than four times the number of snaps and less than double the number of catches. Beckum was thrown at 18 times this season.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 14, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

Beckum won’t ever be a #1 TE, mainly because he’s not a good blocker, but as a #2, he’s more than serviceable. He’s got great hands, catches everything, he runs decent routes, and he’s fast enough to beat Linebackers, and big enough to go get balls over DBs. Him and Miller next year would be a great combination. And if they run 2 TE sets, and are worried about protection or picking up a blitzer, have Beckum go out on a route, and have Miller chip or help out on a block then send him out, presumably, he’d be wide open. Just remember one thing, it’s easier to teach a guy how to block then it is to teach him how to catch passes. Beckum has that part down, I believe he can be coached into an adequate blocker. Shockey never wanted to block when he first came into the league, but as time went on, with coaching, he became an excellent blocker.

by ManningHam and Cheese on Jan 13, 2011 2:07 PM EST reply actions  

Marcedes Lewis.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 13, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

He had one good season...

I don’t trust him as much. Miller is arguably a better blocker as well.

by Split316 on Jan 13, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

God would I love Marcedes Lewis

He finally lived up to the enormous potential he had coming out of UCLA. The guy is a beast, Vernon Davis with less speed. Jacksonville isn’t letting him go, they almost made the playoffs, and he’s their best weapon in the passing game. One can dream though.

by ManningHam and Cheese on Jan 13, 2011 2:30 PM EST reply actions  

better bring him back

i didnt get his jersey in christmas ’09 for him to walk this year, otherwise im saying to hell with a jersey

"I like prime rib, and I'd love to win a Super Bowl" -Andy Reid

by nyg94 on Jan 13, 2011 3:48 PM EST reply actions  

Boss

had only 35 catches this year, but averaged 15.2 Y/C, better than Nicks and second only to Manningham. Had at least 8 catches over 20 yards. My read is that he is not quick enough or fast enough to get separation over the middle – he’s not that hard to cover – but he runs good routes and he understands the route options well enough that he will sometimes pop open behind the defenders if they make a mistake.
We can never be sure how badly he was affected by the hip or the concussions, but I think between 2009 and 2010 we have seen what he can and can’t do. To a defensive coordinator, he will never be more than an after thought. I hope the Giants have the opportunity to draft a top-flight tight end in 2011 and the initiative to do it.

Mickey C

by Mickey C on Jan 13, 2011 4:24 PM EST reply actions  

Do you seriously think

that he’s better than Nicks? 35 catches is a short sample size and does not accurately reflect on Boss’ ability.

World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.

by Drizzzy on Jan 13, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

No way he is better than Nicks, but

I was intrigued by the fact that, in spite of his lack of speed and inability to gain separation, his Y/C in 2010 was comparable to those of the team’s top WRs. Jeremy Shockey, by contrast, has averaged 10-11 yards per catch in his career. Then I remembered the number of times during the year that Manning found him wide open behind the defenders. I think he is smart and opportunistic. He runs the route options based on what the defense gives him and, when they make a mistake, he moves into the open behind them. So a surprising number of his catches are down the field.
Nevertheless, I think the Giants should look to upgrade the position, for two reasons:
First, it would help the offense to have someone who is a real threat over the middle and down the seam, someone that a DC would have to worry about. Given the quality of the Giants’ WRs, there would be more threats than most defenses could deal with.
Second, I think Boss’ days are numbered. People who get concussions tend to keep on getting them. A couple more pops like he had this year and it could be in his best interests to retire. Why risk ending up as a zombie?

Mickey C

by Mickey C on Jan 14, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

butter fingers

philthydelphia

by espnsucks on Jan 13, 2011 4:30 PM EST reply actions  

IMO you guys are a being a bit overly harsh on Boss, really

In 2008-9 he was 100x a better blocker and was always a decent receiver (Even if we had a great TE they probably wouldnt get that many catches. TEs are the last reads in this system). I think playing with a bad hip limited him this year. There’s no way a guy can play so well and solid and then suddenly drop off..

by Nfpdawg on Jan 13, 2011 7:36 PM EST reply actions  

I won't be upset if Boss stays...

but I wouldn’t give him big or guaranteed money, and I’d still be looking to upgrade. I wouldn’t cry if he were traded as part of an upgrade package either at tight end or elsewhere either, as he has some value, and more to a team that actually views the TE as a passing option rather than an afterthought.

by Cranky50 on Jan 13, 2011 8:53 PM EST reply actions  

agree with everyone

bring him back for cheap, he wants more $$$, see ya…
he regressed… forget the injuries… it was his hands that screwed him this year…and last time I checked, he didn’t have surgery on either of them

Q: Who is at center?
A: beats the hell out of me!

by 27Tango on Jan 13, 2011 10:58 PM EST reply actions  

Injuries

Boss is a serviceable tight end and I think his injuries partially contributed to the drop in performance this year. I would not break the bank for him but I also don’t think it is fare to compare him to Shockey. Shockey was a real talent coming out of college with size, speed and great hands. Too bad he was a knucklehead as he would have been a great safety valve for Eli.

No one will ever mistake Boss for Shockey or Tony Gonzales. If he is looking for reasonable dollars, I’d resign him. Now that Killbride is not going anywhere, at least Boss knows the offense.

With regards to Beckham, I don’t think Killbride knows how to use him. That being said, I would look for an upgrade who is more similar to Boss in size and is a capable blocker.

by abigfan63 on Jan 14, 2011 10:14 AM EST reply actions  

Good solid TE

who seems to communicate well with Eli. Blame down season on injuries.

by lueeluee on Jan 15, 2011 2:24 AM EST reply actions  

Bring the Boss back...

I think the Giants have to bring Boss back. But, will he sign the base dollars plus incentives contract or would he take his chances on the open market? The Giants do not have the current depth to just let him walk. I say, offer a competitive contract to Boss, let Travis Beckum go and also re-sign Bear Pascoe. Then, the Giants can look again to acquire some depth and maybe a future starter in the Draft. If Boss walks, then the Giants do not have a proven NFL starting caliber TE for 2011. Even if they take a TE early in the draft, will that player be ready to start? Do you feel comfortable having Beckum or Pascoe as the Starting TE for the Giants?

by ejcal70 on Jan 17, 2011 8:52 AM EST reply actions  

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