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Coughlin and Reese are not on the "Hot Seat"
After reading through several threads - more specifically, the most recent Open Sunday thread - a lot of you in Giants Land are of the opinion that Tom Coughlin and Jerry Reese are on the "Hot Seat" and their jobs are on the line if the Giants don't produce a winning team this season. The reasoning behind this includes the disappointing playoff loss in 2008 and the lackluster 8-8 team from last season.
For these reasons some of you assume that both the Head Coach and General Managers jobs are on the line. It's for these same reasons that I believe you few are complete idiots.
Just for reference, here are the stats for the 2009 NYG season:
8-8, 402 points scored (ranked #8), 427 points allowed (ranked 30th). Point differential of -25.
If you look at the point differential, as well as the defensive points allowed rank, you would think this was a horrible team in need of serious rebuilding. Hell, you might mistake our defense for the Bucs (27th in point allowed); however, the story behind the 2009 Giants defense is that of loss. We lost one of the best defensive coordinators in the league. We lost quite a few first-string players. In essence, we lost our entire defense last season from the head on down to the players that can execute the best.
So, we had to replace the defensive coordinator, and we did so by hiring from within the organization - an approach that is generally favored when it comes to complex masking schemes that Steve Spagnuolo liked to employ. Unfortunately, a lot of things didn't work out.
First off, Bill Sheridan did not fit in the coaching style of Tom Coughlin or Steve Spagnuolo. Both Tom and Steve are very vocal, very emotional coaches. They want to be on the field, get their players pumped, and be a part of the game. Sheridan, from day one, wanted to be in the booth. He is not the type of coach that can motivate players and be as personal with them as the team needed him to be.
Second, Sheridan was not ready for the position of a professional football defensive coordinator. Whatever the case may be, players found themselves confused and frustrated on the field, so they lost faith in the coordinator.
Third, whether it was through complexity, length, or just an overall dissatisfaction with the coach, key players on our defense were unable to cope with the defensive scheme that Sheridan came up with.
For all of these reasons - and the loss of key players, as well as a few playing hurt the entire season - our defense was horrendous, and lost us more games than a lack of offense did.
On offense we faired rather well. the 402 points scored (ranked #8) was the third highest number scored in the Coughlin era, with only the 2005 and 2008 campaigns scoring higher. In both of those seasons we were ranked #3 in total offense in the league. For the record, the 2007 Super Bowl winning team scored 373 points, ranking #14 in the league.
Despite Brandon Jacbos' lack of performance (who, by the way, is quickly talking himself out of a job in New York), the offense still scored enough points to keep the point differential to a minimum. In spite of the offensive line struggling in the run blocking, and giving up too many sacks, the offense still managed to keep the Giants in most of the games last year.
Sure, the offensive output in 2009 was down from the output in 2008, but the total dropoff was not as significant as many people would have you believe. with the improvement in the offensive line, and a removal of Jacobs from the starting role - as well as an anticipated improvement in the performance of Nicks - I would look for the 2010 Giants to have a successful offensive campaign this seasons.
Now, let's talk about records.
This 8-8 season was also only the second time in the Coughlin era where the Giants failed to make the post-season, with the 2004 season - his first as head coach - being the only other time. Interestingly, Coughlin has 3 winning seasons, 2 .500 seasons, and only 1 losing season as the Giants head coach.
As the Giants head coach he's 55-41-0, that's a 57.2% winning percentage (.572). That's not too shabby in the NFL, where a .500 record could land you in the playoffs. Oh, by the way, he has a Super Bowl ring.
In other words, Coughlin brought to this organization what hasn't been here since Bill Parcells: a winning tradition. Fassel and Reeves? They had a combined 5 winning seasons, 1 .500 season, and 5 losing seasons. Quite frankly, in the short tenure that coughlin has been here he has been at least as successful as both Fassel and Reeves combined. That's 11 seasons worth of football compared to Coughlin's 6 with the Giants.
For the above reason I also think that Reese's job isn't on the line. While the Super Bowl winning Giants were more a work of Ernie Accorsi, Jerry Reese's work showed off in the 2008 season with a 12-4 record, the #3 ranked offense, and the #5 ranked defense. Defensively, I'd blame the 2009 campaign on a combination of a bad coordinator and injuries; however, on offense that work again showed that he's capable of selecting legitimate players by having the #8 ranked offense in the league.
The talent is still there - it was just injured and confused last season. We'll have to see what happens this season, but I can pretty much assure you that unless there is a massive player uprising, or the Giants somehow manage to post a sub-500 season (unless Eli goes down, this isn't happening), neither Tom Coughlin nor Jerry Reese will be on the chopping block in the offseason.
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if there not on a short lease, they should be. mr. mara the father was without question one of the nicest people not only in football but any sport. the problem with mr. mara, you almost had to commit treason before he would fire any one. three years ago the giants had a miracle finish to their season. since that super bowl win, they have floundered and looked like they were 90 day wonders. head coach and reese recd. much credit for that season success and they deserved that credit. you can only in the real world live so long on past successes. it is time to produce and become competitive again. the past two years have been imbarassing to watch. on many occassions the game was over at halftime. the team does not look focused or on the same page. frankly they don’t appear to be well coached. if there is not a significant improvement this year, the coach and reese should pay a price. its a game yes, but its also a business. as they say in the business world,( you get what you accept.) lets hope mgmt. doesn’t accept these continued underacchiements.
two years ago ...
For all of your “this is a business” talk I think you need to seriously remind yourself that, yes, this is a business, and a high turnover business does not produce a consistent bottom line.
The fact is that over the past 6 years, the Giants have been one of the most consistent franchises in the NFL: consistently putting butts in the seats, taking in concession revenue, and increasing their advertising revenues year on year.
In the same vein, Tom Coughlin and Jerry Reese have produced a very consistent football team: they consistently compete and put out a football team that is talented enough to win games.
After a disappointing 8-8 season, you’re ready to ax the Head Coach and General Manager? That would result in a VERY high turnover rate, and any businessman can tell you that a high turnover rate does not produce consistent results. In fact the only consistency there is the failure rate of companies with a high turnover rate.
The fact is, Druze, that this is a business, not Las Vegas. The Giants exist to consistently make money, not consistently produce championships (a rarity in the modern NFL). Tom Coughlin and, to a lesser extent, Jerry Reese have successfully done with for the past 6 years. I have no doubt that they will continue to do it for at least the next three years.
Quite frankly, if I had a management team that produced the results that Tom Coughlin and Jerry Reese have produced, I’d be damn happy with the results.
(I would also remind you, Druze, that the Indianapolis Colts have won at least 12 games every year since 2002. They have won only one Championship in that time, in 2006 against the Bears. The Peyton Manning-led Colts have floundered in the playoffs year after year.)
The fact is that over the past 6 years, the Giants have been one of the most consistent franchises in the NFL: consistently putting butts in the seats, taking in concession revenue, and increasing their advertising revenues year on year.
I don’t know what team you have been watching but the teams that I saw were terrible. Coughlin and Reese were already in the hot seat at the beginning of the 2007 season and the reason why they woke up and started playing well in that season is because the players rallied around all of the bad publicity that they were getting and used that as inspiration. I would more credit for that season to Spags then I would to TC or Reese. TC brought in Bill Sheridan who only lasted one year. It was evident from the start of Sheridan’s reign that he was a bum and TC stayed with him against the better judgement of his defensive players. The years that preceded 07 during which TC was the coach, were all dismal years and TC was the gum stuck on the bottom of a shoe in NY during those years. Also, everyone keeps blaming the failures of the 09 season on defensive injuries but the offensive play was terrible as well. Too many three and outs kept the Defense on the field for a substantial amount of time week in and week out so stop giving them a pass.
they consistently compete and put out a football team that is talented enough to win games.
I know you don’t mean this. Take another look at the tapes for the 04, 05, 06 & 09 seasons and say that again.
any businessman can tell you that a high turnover rate does not produce consistent results
.
That depends on the industry and the product. A high turnover right in the NFL has produce competitive teams which is what the Patriots and Colts have done. It works for some teams if management knows what they are doing. The Giants have failed to hit that mark in 08 and 09 and prior to 07. Sure, we may have made it to the playoffs but when we got their, we were knocked out by teams that we should have beaten resulting from poor coaching.
The fact is, Druze, that this is a business, not Las Vegas. The Giants exist to consistently make money, not consistently produce championships
Did you bump your head or something. Money AND championships is why the NFL even exists. Every year every team puts a squad on the field to bring home the Lombardi and if that is not the case, I don’t know why the team exists. The owners can sell hot dogs or any other product and make money. Its about winning championships and that all it better be about or the owners should sell the team to someone who has this mindset.
Quite frankly, if I had a management team that produced the results that Tom Coughlin and Jerry Reese have produced, I’d be damn happy with the results
Are you serious? Obviously, your’re not hard to please.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Sep 5, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Correction:
Second statement; First Paragraph should read: The reason why the Players woke up and started playing well in that season.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Sep 5, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, since you’re so adamant about breaking the previous TV seasons down, let’s take a look at them.
‘04: first season with Coughlin as head coach. First season with a new offensive coordinator. First season without Colins at QB. Kurt Warner as the starting QB. Eli Manning coming off the bench for the later pater of the season. They came off of a horrible 4-12 season – Fassel’s last – and improved to 6-10.
’05: 11-5, won the NFC East but lost in the wild card to a strong Panthers team. An 11-5 Panthers team, who put up a fight all year long but eventually lost a tie-breaker to Tampa Bay. By the way, our defense was ranked #14 in the league, behind the fabled Spagnuolo ’07 defense, which ranked #17.
’06: 8-8, snuck in with a wild card spot, eliminated in the first round against the Eagles. Who did we lose to this season? IND (12-4), SEA (9-7), CHI (13-3), JAX (8-8), TEN (8-8), DAL (9-7), PHI (10-6) x2, NO (10-6). Not a single team with a losing record, and four (!) teams with 10+ wins. While this team was not great by any stretch of the imagination, it was still a growing platform for Eli and helped developed the offense we have today.
This defense was only slightly better than the ’09 defense, ranked #24, while the offense was ranked #11.
‘07: 10-6, miracle run, we all know what happened. They weren’t the best team in the league, but they sure as hell weren’t the worst. They were ranked #14 in offense, and #17 in defense. Oh yeah, that talk of Coughlin’s job on the line? That was all media talk. I never heard – once – from the front office that the head coaching position was at stake that season.
‘08: 12-4, won the NFC East, but eliminated by the Eagles in the divisional round. This team started off strong, but in the end they just didn’t have enough steam to take them all the way. They were 3rd overall in points scored and 5th overall in points allowed. If everyone was healthy by the end of the season, this could have been very special, but it just was not to be.
Now we come to the crux of the problem, ‘09. This, I think, is why you’re in such a panic over the Giants. Let’s be honest, it was a bad season, but it was a bad season for a LOT of reasons, which I’ve discussed above.
The offense last season did not perform as horribly as you seem to think. You simply DO NOT have a top 10 offense in the NFL with a bad offense. Yes, the execution was sloppy in areas, and the production of Brandon Jacobs slipped significantly, but these are correctable problems.
‘10 isn’t going to be some nuclear holocaust. There are no jobs on the line. Maybe in ‘11 if the Giants implode – and that’s only if the Giants are healthy through the implosion. If there are mounting injuries look to the strength and conditioning coaches to get the ax WAY before the head coach does.
Quite frankly, you expect the Giants to be the Indianapolis Colts. Your expectations are, simply, unrealistic. The Giants are, above all else, a consistent team. Aside from their hiccups along the road, they produce a team that will compete every year, and – once in a blue moon – win.
And, yes, I am serious. As a fan, I would love to have a championship every year; but, as a businessman, any head coach that has taken my franchise to the playoffs four out of the last five years has lined my franchises wallet very nicely, and that’s a hell of a lot more than most other teams in the NFL can say.
Ok, I will give you 05 with the 11-5 record.
04, I will give you too because it was the team was in transition. The others I can not.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Sep 6, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
"Take another look at the tapes for the 04, 05, 06 & 09 seasons and say that again"
2005 they had a pretty good team 11-5 and had a chance for #1 seed if that F’in Feely did not miss 3 in the game but in the end, they did get murdered in the playoffs
2006 very up and down 8-8 but again made the playoffs and lost in a well played game to the eagles.
2004 and 2009 they really did suck alot
Superman is back!
by The Always Well Dressed... on Sep 6, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
The problem with this argument is that it is unbalanced summarizing. The Giants are a team that is considered a perennial playoff team. Poorly coached teams don’t earn that distinction. People seem to take last season to mean more than the whole of the Coughlin Reese era, which is the most successful era since the mid 80’s. There is no way anyone can convince me that last season’s 8-8 team would not have been 10-6 or better if the defense didn’t have major injuries all over the field.
The only chance that Coughlin and Reese are in any trouble would be the fact that the Giants losing and not making the playoffs is so unusual that people take notice. To totally blanket the last 5 years as a huge disappointment filled with underachieving, badly coached teams is completely wrong.
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
Hmm I seem to remember 2008
We were the best team that season until Plax. A rash of injuries and poor D coaching hurt us tremendously
Agreed for the most part,
they ain’t on the hot seat, not unless the Giants just downright implode (say..they play like the last 2 games for the entire season).
Next year I think Coughlin would be on the hot seat if they have an average season, but not this season. The fans will, but that pretty much has no bearing.
Reese is too young and his resume is too strong for him to be on a hot seat, may be after the next coaching hire if it failed…but certainly not during Coughlin’s time will Reese be close to being fired.
I really think people forget that 2008 ever happened and remember too much the end of 2009, which is understandable considering its most recent. But the Giants followed up their 2007 with becoming probably the strongest team in the NFL in 2008. It didn’t follow through, but as the teams the Giants pummeled en route to the Super Bowl found out, strong regular season teams don’t necessary win the big one.
So this whole hot seat, win now bullcrap is a 2011 term. Maybe for the fans its a 2010 term, but pretty sure for team its not gonna happen.
Rec'd it
Unless we have a winless season, Coughlin’s coming back.
And since he won’t, he’s definitely coming back.
Against all odds, against all circumstance were you don't have a shot, you succeed
All you hear about is the past, the past... the past is the !@#$ing past, this is the present.
THIS IS TEMPORARY! A CHAMPIONSHIP IS PERMANENT
-Michael Strahan
JR is fine
TC may not be.
He is a perfectly adequate and consistent B to B+ coach. Trouble is he is in NY. If he matches last year’ 8-8 he might get another year to prove it was a fluke. The Mara’s are loyal.
If he does not, if they play like they did at the end of last year when they quit on him – then Gruden, Cowher and the other look very attractive. The Mara’ are not stupid.
IMO, he will do enough this year to get to continue in 2011. Then I hope he retires and they bring back Spags. Or Fox.
What I would prefer to see is 11-5, strong in the playoffs and I am exposed for being an idiot and an ingrate.
But I would not take that to Vegas
TC is definitely on the hot seat for me
If we don’t have a winning season I don’t see him sticking around.
JR is a great GM and I hope he stays with the Giants for a long time.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Sep 6, 2010 1:47 PM EDT reply actions
I also agree....
I’m not one of these “in Reese I trust” guys. But I think he’s a very good GM. Obviously there have been mistakes but you can’t look at any one GM in the league and say “he’s perfect”.
"If I'm curt, then I apologize" - Newman
We have made it to the playoffs a lot...
But we have had success only in one trip to the playoffs, the year we won the SB. A perinnial playoff team to me wins a few playoff games here and there. We do not. We either lose the first round or win the SB. I want to see more playoff wins.
So yes
Coughlin is on the hotseat, and the owner said as much. The great Duke has passed away and his son isn’t quite as forgiving. If Coughlin gets bounced (which is not what I’m rooting for) I bet Fewell will take the reigns and Coughlin knows it. Hopefully he pulls another ’07 out of his ass. If we do not win at least one playoff game this season then i is a failure.
+2
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Sep 6, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
The only coach I would prefer
Is Jon Gruden, if he’s not interested then TC is fine. And don’t think Cowher is coming back
"Holy F'n Dissertation Batman!"
“You’re right boy wonder we have officially gone…. over… the… top.”
“This sinister of a puzzle can only be the work of… the Riddler.”
“Indeed Robin….
How can one be suckessful and still suck?
How can one blow without sucking?”
“They can’t be the same person, they just can’t”
“Exactly they look the same, and even go by the same name but there must be…more … than…one.”
“Twins?”
“More like im..perfect..copies, All trying to live up to the image of their creator. Us Robin, our hopes and dreams for flawlessness, our fandom spilled out as our version of how these teams let us down. Alas the is no such thing, no perfection, so all are failures while succeeding”
“So who’s at fault?”
“that is.. the question”
We must be based in Gotham. Land of the overhyped everything.
Sincerely
Mayor West
TC and JR do a fine job, we contend year in and year out, in an era that is designed with league parody in mind.
no man
ever has a right to wear spandex. Ever, for any reason. Frankly, neither do most women.
Every time I see some $&* riding his bike down the road in a silly spandex technicolor catsuit, I just want to run them over. And then say to their mangled self, Why don’t you just wear shorts, you tool?
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Sep 10, 2010 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions

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