Let Me Ask Again -- Why Does Tom Quinn Have A Job?
by Ed Valentine on Sep 28, 2010 12:02 PM EDT
in New York Giants News
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PrintI began beating the drum for special teams coordinator Tom Quinn to be replaced way back in January.
That was shortly after John Mara's 'status quo is not acceptable' speech, and after the firings of then-defensive coordinator Bill Sheridan and defensive line coach Mike Waufle.
Yet, despite Mara's proclamation and the pitiful performance of the special teams in 2009, Quinn is still special teams coordinator.
And here we are again. In the same spot, with the Giants special teams play ranking among the worst in the league.
Tom Coughlin termed special teams play "horrible" during his post-game press conference the other day, and he was right. Now Coughlin, while rejecting the idea that Quinn might be the problem, is hinting that some more starters may be asked to pull special teams duty.
"We certainly have not done anything with our return game. We did not cover. We talked about coming out after the half and covering the kick and then being able to play good solid defense, get the ball back, that type of thing. They got the ball at the 48-yard line," Coughlin said. "There are some areas that have definitely got to be improved...if it's nothing more than field position. Let's not let the other guys start at midfield."
Special teams captain Chase Blackburn says the problem is simply lack of execution.
"It’s not a lack of effort," Blackburn said. "It’s a lack of discipline. Not everyone believing in everything and being on the same page at all times."
The key part of that for me is where Blackburn said "not everyone believing in everything." I have seen enough training camp workouts to know how much emphasis Coughlin puts on it, and that the Giants work on it every day. Blackburn's quote, though, is a stark admission that the Giants aren't buying what Quinn is selling.
I have to admit the spectre of facing punt returner Devin Hester and kickoff returner Johnnie Knox this weekend is not giving me pleasant dreams. Oh, and toss in the fact that Chicago blocked a field goal Monday night and this could be a gruesome Sunday night for the Giants on special teams.
We constantly see mistakes in coverage leading to long returns. We see indecision from Darius Reynaud on whether he should bring the ball out of the end zone. We constantly see him with no chance by the time he hits the 15-yard line on kickoffs he does return. We see no place to go on punt returns. We saw an unheard of delay of game on a field goal. We've seen assignment breakdowns lead to blocked punts.
Quinn took over as special teams coach in 2007, and his deficiencies were masked by a magical Super Bowl run. In truth, though, the Giants special teams have not been good the entire team he has been in charge.
Have you noticed how well placekicker Lawrence Tynes has been striking the ball this season, on both kickoffs and field goals? Yes, I know he missed a 43-yarder Sunday, but I'm never killing a kicker for a miss outside 40 yards.
You know what the biggest difference in Tynes is this season? He has stopped listening to Quinn, who has had Tynes monkeying with his mechanics the past couple of seasons, and basically gone back to kicking the ball the way he always kicked it pre-Quinn. The results have been startlingly better. Quinn even tried to get then-punter Jeff Feagles, one of the best ever, to make mechanical adjustments a year ago. Foolishness.
The Giants have shuffled special teams players again and again the past couple of seasons, and still the problem remains.
It mystifies me that the Giants have never been able to see that the biggest problem on special teams is not the players they are using. It's the guy trying to coordinate them.
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I agree
Why Coughlin keeps defending this guy is beyond me. I would not even wait til the end of the season to get rid of him but would do it immediately. Look at the niners firing their offensive coordinator yesterday. I’m p[retty sure anyone off the street can’t do a worse jobs with the special teams than Quinn has done.
Dear Tynes and Dodge....
Kick it outta bounds.
that is all
"Things have to change" - Antrel Rolle
"If I'm curt, then I apologize" - Newman
We should just
go for it on every fourth down. I mean that’s where they get Dodge’s returns to right?
All you hear about is the past, the past... the past is the !@#$ing past, this is the present.
THIS IS TEMPORARY! A CHAMPIONSHIP IS PERMANENT
-Michael Strahan
or let Eli throw a Hail Marry....
what’s gonna happen, they intercept it? probably better field position either way….
"Things have to change" - Antrel Rolle
"If I'm curt, then I apologize" - Newman
Thank you Ed for pointing out Tynes
He looks like a completely different kicker.
What has led you to believe though that he has stopped listening to Quinn? Do you have an inside source or has it been documented somewhere? I am just curious. Whatever he is doing, I hope he keeps it up.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next."
Tynes
Larry, a little of both. A lot of what I’ve been told about Tynes is that he has stopped with the all the mechanical adjustments and just gone back to how he used to kick the ball. That, plus I’m not sure I ever saw Tynes and Quinn have a conversation during training camp. Tynes does his work, by himself.
by Ed Valentine on Sep 28, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
How many FGs did Tynes miss this past Sunday Ed?
by LoNJDTechnology on Sep 28, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
he missed 2 last game
he hadn’t missed before this year IIRC.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Sep 28, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Two
But, geez, you’re going to kill the guy for missing from 53 yards? You can’t do that. Kickers should be automatic inside 30, nearly automatic inside 40, 50/50 between 40 and 50 and anything outside 50 is an absolute bonus.
by Ed Valentine on Sep 28, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
werd lo
cut Lawrence some slack on the 53 yarder….
"Things have to change" - Antrel Rolle
"If I'm curt, then I apologize" - Newman
The question is..
How much of Dodge’s performance this season do you think is due to Quinn trying to adjust his mechanics, ala Tynes?
As Ed has stated before, they were definitely trying to change the way he punts over training camp and in practices to teach him directional punting and to get the ball out sooner. I wonder how much the tinkering has affected his ability to punt it reasonably. We know that he has a strong leg. Sometimes I think that the best coaching involves adjustments to the player’s natural abilities and motions rather than trying to mold everyone into a specific mechanical ideal.
great point on Dodge.
if this guy tried to change Feagles mechanics, there’s no doubt he’d try and “fix” a rookies.
Dodge was the best punter in college football last year. Punting can’t be that inexact of a science, what happened to this guy?
Winning cures all...even stupid
by FreeBradshaw on Sep 28, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
1000
something is definitely wrong with Dodge. There’s no way a punter drafted out of college can be this bad. I’ve been watching football almost 40 years. Without question Dodge is thw worst.
How many punters get drafted yearly? which means you’re one of the best coming out of college.
I now feel bad for the kid. You reach your dream only to have some clown screw you up.
"I don't do many endorsements. I'd rather get doused by Gatorade than bust my butt selling it." - Bill Parcells
by FrankB03 on Sep 28, 2010 1:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Dodge hasn't had a bad punt in 3 weeks.....
the clock thing was his fault but it wasn’t a punt so it’s not really fair that it makes him a bad punter.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Sep 28, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
He's trying to say that Quinn messed him up
and Dodge had a bad punt against the Colts
+10000
no excuses with that one. You don’t have a rush to contend with.
"I don't do many endorsements. I'd rather get doused by Gatorade than bust my butt selling it." - Bill Parcells
yeah that should be like a free throw for a punter
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
Name
me one punter that has been this consistently bad? Punters have bad punts and bad games.
"I don't do many endorsements. I'd rather get doused by Gatorade than bust my butt selling it." - Bill Parcells
Quinn..wants him to kick left-footed is all just a minor mechanics change..
I wouldn’t let Quinn change the oil in my truck if worked at Eco-Lube.I would immediately check to make sure the drain plug was tight and then check if my nuts were still in my pants..not necessarily in that order..
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Well
He can take ‘use the opposite appendage’ lessons from Eli.
by Ed Valentine on Sep 28, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Dodge
Honestly, quite a bit. The Giants started breaking down and changing his mechanics almost immediately, and that has had to 1) shake the young man’s confidence and 2) make him think about every step he takes and every times he drops the ball to punt it.
Can’t perform at your best when you have to think all the time, and I believe that is where the Giants have put Dodge.
by Ed Valentine on Sep 28, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
If this is the case
Then getting rid of him would be foolhardy. Given the magnitude of the good punts he does unleash in practice and occasionally in games, they should quit messing with his head and just let him go out and punt the ball as he knows how to. I could easily see the Giants cutting him then watching him go to a different team and be an all-Pro punter.
I hate
To be in the position of defending Quinn. But I think I remember that he needed to get his kicks off quicker for the pro game. He needed to change his footwork, his drop, etc. to get it off quicker. That changes everything and it takes time to adjust.
A lot of college punters need to do it. But I expected with a drafted punter we’d be getting more of a finished product than a project. Those guys you sign and teach.
why...who knows?
I’d rather them just go without a STs coach and do it by committee.
Winning cures all...even stupid
"Dont kick it to Devin Hes..
aww you kicked it to him.
Well, don’t do it aga…
well shoot."
Uh hello, planes? It's blimps. You win.
right...please don't let anyone say that on SNF this weekend
"I play real sports…not trying to be the best at exercising."
"I'm a bulletproof tiger man!"
- Kenny Powers "Eastbound and Down" (season 1)
Quinn has a job because Coughlin is afraid of change
That is why were stuck with these god awful coordinators, that is why rookies never play despite the veterans sucking, that is another reason why were currently the laughing stock of the NFL and why we will probably have a top 10 draft pick next year.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Sep 28, 2010 12:35 PM EDT reply actions
We've been a disappointment
Saying that the Giants are the laughingstock of the NFL is ludicrous. Buffalo, San Fran, Cleveland, Washington, Detroit, Carolina have been the butt of NFL jokes for years.
"I was going to separate from this guy and make him look silly." -- Kevin Boss
Theres a difference between just not having talent
and playing CRAP football. Were in category 2.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Sep 28, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Why doesn't a team not have talent?
Is Washington, Detroit, Buffalo, or Cleveland some D-IIA program that can’t recruit with the likes of Texas, Florida, and Alabama?
You can categorize it any way you want. All those franchises are in much worse shape than the Giants. You might not pay attention to what is said about them but they get dumped on a lot more than the Giants.
"I was going to separate from this guy and make him look silly." -- Kevin Boss
Well the media laughs at us all the time
Especially ESPN.
most people laugh at ESPN
since they’re so full of bull$h*t they make a constipated bull seem like it just had a colonic.
Winning cures all...even stupid
by FreeBradshaw on Sep 28, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
+10000000000000000000000000000000
fuck ESPN. The network is a joke. The posters here no more about sports than most of their analysts.
"I don't do many endorsements. I'd rather get doused by Gatorade than bust my butt selling it." - Bill Parcells
+1
Sports Science clinched it for me. I can’t watch that crap. The Steel factory intro, the overly produced and hyped everything, the favoritism toward certain teams.. all of it is gabage.
ESPN..has no credibility since Boomer moved out of the day-to-day stuff..That other guy drowned..
Now they have a bunch of boobs…I’d rather watch Suzy Colber.Now theres some fine boobs..and with her you get the ‘three boob bonus’..Her comments and her two nipplies..I’m all ears…
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
mcclaren
it is ridiculous to say that we’re the laughing stock of the nfl. and everytime I see a comment by you, it is negative. you are a negative nancy
Aw that wasn't nice bman..Everybody has a right their opinion..
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
haha
I don’t think that is true, but you have to admit there haven’t been a lot of positive things to say about the Giants lately.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Sep 28, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
No I meant it..Let's face it we are miserable fans right now..but it's Tuesday...
Personally by Tuesday, I stop being disappointed and start joking about it..There ain’t a damn thing we can do about it..but I am not going to berate another fans opinion..even that ‘Pauliebygeezus’ or whatever his name is calling Eli a retard…I laughed my ass off..It took me 15 minutes to regain my composure and respond I was laughing so hard…That is the kind of fan that you wind up talking out of jumping off the George Washington bridge..but his opinion..and funny nonetheless..
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
A good poll question would be:
Who is a worse special teams coach…..Tom Quinn or Larry McDuff?
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Sep 28, 2010 12:46 PM EDT reply actions
Dissapointment
TC was questioned on special teams play n he said there is no problem with the co-ordinator .WTF!
Junior School co-ordinator can run the team better.
Not everyone believing in everything
What are you trying to tell us Chase? Personally, don’t know what exactly that means?
We are still talking about special teams, right?
"No one played more for the Giants, while being coached less".
Ex-Giants coach, Steve Owens, talking about Mel Hein.
At least we aren't last!
But 30th place is about where I thought we’d be. Why hasn’t our Defense beaten the crap out of Quinn for putting them in such horrible spots?
What part of "Head"
Does TC not get about his title? He gets paid to intervene and make the hard call on the performance of both players and coaches. Voting present is not leadership.
When its 3rd and long, throw the ball past the marker.
by Fester McDougal on Sep 28, 2010 1:28 PM EDT reply actions
As for Execution of our special teams
As Coach McKay once said " I’m all for it ". We can start with Quinn.
Yes! Classic quote from the quote master.
"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning
Can't disagree of anything here
but how do we know it’s not the result of some organizational philosophy? I mean the Giants’ special teams have been awful for decades now with a few brief periods of being merely average.
"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning
Fire him
Now. Special teams has blown last year the year before ect. At some point you gotta throw in the towel and just say were sorry Mr. Quinn your are fired for lack of productoin. 2 years worth. In the real world I would have been fired a year and a half ago. This is crazy.
Who would replace him?
I’m all for getting rid of Quinn, he has had more than ample opportunity to fix the problem. We even traded for an established kick returner prior to the start of the season because no one else could get the job done. Now he is having difficulties too. When all the parts change except for the coordinator, and the situation remains the same, what is the common denominator? Quinn.
But, three games into the season all the good special teams coaches are already locked up. Who would replace Quinn? It may be better to live with him until the end of the season and then hire someone with a pedigry.
Ed..this here is a 'Grand Slam' post..
The Rays are back in second place..The ‘leaning tower of Piza’ just stood up straight..France just started liking us Americans again..Osama Bin Laden just poked his head out of his cave with his hand at his ear to listen..North Korea just gave up their nuke program in favor of starting to feed their people..There will be 10 more Shuttle flights..We just discovered life on Mars, hurricane season has ended early..the ban on Cuban cigars has been revoked, Nancy Pelosi got a face-lift and a boob job and will now be working color commentary for Sunday Night Football, China has stopped using lead based paint..Singapore abolished ‘caning’ now they just use a thick belt…Iran decided not to stone that woman for cheating.instead they said they will just give her a bag of weed and get her stoned..the Queen of England tipped her hat to you, Tony Blair came out of the closet and admitted to an affair with George Michaels..Elton John is now straight…You have singlehandedly changed the world with this commentary……….
Now fire Quinn…and you’ll be my hero
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Wow
You forgot that – it has literally been raining cats and dogs – all over the world – for days. Also, FYI, wood is now a drink.
it’s glaringly obvious that the guy is the equivalent of a ‘parts changer’ rather than a mechanic. Do a couple of leg stretches and put on “that” boot. Yeah, that one with a little dust on it.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
I will put my support behind this one....
Our special teams play is embarrassing. Period. It has been for too long.
Fire Quinn in for nothing else then to wake people up! Where is the accountability?
I want more JPP and I want it now!
The right thing to do
Would be to send Cardinals and Chargers fans our condolences for being worse than us. It’s got to be bad for them – these rankings did not even include the two TDs the Chargers gave up this week on kick returns.
Reynaud is learning. At first he thinks he will run it out, then he remembers what team he is on now and takes a knee. Considering how bad our ST are, I think he has been doing well. Holding onto the ball and getting some yardage.
Ed
you’re always the voice of reason. We know he’s bad if you’re calling for his head.
"I don't do many endorsements. I'd rather get doused by Gatorade than bust my butt selling it." - Bill Parcells
by FrankB03 on Sep 28, 2010 2:07 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Quinn..pin his Name-tag on him..buy him a free hot-dog voucher and a bus ticket to the dog track..
He’ll probably bet on the first dog he sees dragging its ass along the infield grass..
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Never Kill a guy for missing a FG outside of 40 yards?
Maybe 15 20 years ago but in todays NFL anything beyond 50 is crapshoot but if you look around the league most kickers nail kicks inside 50 yards especially inside 45 yards. Tynes stinks.
I don’t get lack of discipline on specail teams. I mean like another poster said it’s the same thing no matter what level of football STAY IN YOUR LANES, thats it I mean what are these guys not getting about that.
Yeah Land..Tynes hit that 53 yarder dead nuts straight.that would have been good from 60-65..
But like I said he fails to realize that the ‘Goalpost’ is involved..
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Yeah
a 43 yarder is very makeable in my book, this isn’t the Summerall era!
"No one played more for the Giants, while being coached less".
Ex-Giants coach, Steve Owens, talking about Mel Hein.
by Great Gatsby on Sep 28, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
How do you know this Ed
You know what the biggest difference in Tynes is this season? He has stopped listening to Quinn, who has had Tynes monkeying with his mechanics the past couple of seasons, and basically gone back to kicking the ball the way he always kicked it pre-Quinn
The "Not so Mighty" Quinn needs to go...
and Blackburn is right, the problem is simply a lack of execution, but I think we can schedule that execution for about 1600 hours this afternoon. Is the plank in place for Quinn to walk (be shoved) yet?
Quinn
is a fool. Its obvious that he doesn’t know how to coach. Special teams has been pathetic under his direction. He needs to be handed the pink slip immediately.
Hixon
Hixon pretty much had the same coverage last year but gave us decent starting positions. Imagine what he can do in other teams.
I think the blocking has become worse from last year to this
I wouldn’t say that Hixon was a great returned, certainly not THAT much better than Reynaud but there is nothing you can do when theres 3 guys flying free at you and you’re only on the 15 yard line.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Sep 28, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Hixon's numbers don't agree with you
Hixon had the 2nd highest return AVG behind only DeSean Jackson.
"I was going to separate from this guy and make him look silly." -- Kevin Boss
It's one of the first
things TC fixed when he arrived as coach and it’s been lacking since 08
Please get Phil Simms in the Hall of Fame
Hire Tyree
as the coach. Feels good and someone the players would respect
Please get Phil Simms in the Hall of Fame
Micheal Johnson placed on IR
Don’t be suprised if that’s the last you ever see of this guy in a Giants uniform…..
I want more JPP and I want it now!
It sucks when you sit to watch a game and it sucks so bad that you..
Go to the fridge and start checking ‘The Born on Date’ on the bottom of the beer cans.."Hmmm..will they win by Oct 30th?..Fuck no, throw this one out…etc..
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
They sucked so bad Sunday..I had to take my can of beer nuts to the Vet to get neutered..
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
We need someone like the Jets STs coach.
He’s a guy I would love to play on special teams for.
I think he's got dirt on the Mara family
that’s the only reason I can come up with as to why he is still employed with the Giants.
Still amazes me that people like this have well paying jobs despite their overwhelmingly poor performance, while other hard working folks remain unemployed. They should go back to the philosophies of Veeck, the old owner of the Chicago White Sox, who once allowed the fans to manage the team during a game, they held up yes or no signs in response to questions posed by 4 fans sitting in the dugout, and they won. I think 1 lucky Giant fan, to be determined by a random drawing, should be the Special Teams Coordinator of the week. Go to all the practices, meetings, and on game day coach the Giants!
What do we have to lose?
Good question
But is there anyone we can actually bring in to replace Quinn. I figure it’s not easy to find a solid ST coach, but at this point I’d roll the dice on just about anyone to run that unit…Andiamo, Free, Fergie, Jesus just anyone but Quinn.
I really don't know
It’s just pretty obvious after this many seasons of struggles that the guy does not have the answers.
by Ed Valentine on Sep 28, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I think anyone w/ attention to detail and half a brain could probably do better at this point....
If I did get the job I would tell you this….i would be the Mike Waufle of Assistant Coaches.
Gettign in guys faces, hitting them, chest bumps, parties at Latin Quarter…..I’d probably last an entire half before JR called me and said “andiamo….meet me in the club house….. now please”
than I would have to forcibly step aside “to spend more time with my family” and that will be that.
Hey, think about it this way….at least KG’s son ain’t the ST Coach!!!!
"Things have to change" - Antrel Rolle
"If I'm curt, then I apologize" - Newman
DARN IT...I mean to put a line through "parties at latin quarter"
arg…butchered that.
I’m embarrassed.
"Things have to change" - Antrel Rolle
"If I'm curt, then I apologize" - Newman
No offense to Andi or Free,
but it’s got to be Fergie. She’s uniquely qualified to motivate the players.
what head coach is going to tolerate this every game?
The prospect is a losing season. So action needs to occur NOW.
by SJBBfan on Sep 28, 2010 8:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Tom Quinn
Isn’t the one making bad punts,missing field goals,tackles,blocking assignments on ST.The players are the ones responsible for those mishaps.You all wanna fire somebody start with MATT DODGE!!
Coach
is responsible for make the plaers do what they are supposed to do.
It cant happen every time basics of any sport.
what head coach is going to tolerate this every game?
The prospect is a losing season. So action needs to occur NOW.
by SJBBfan on Sep 28, 2010 9:13 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Booooyaa!!
Probably fans shud start booing the STs whenver there is a ST play to send msg across to the Mara’s.
Would having Chase Blackburn active ...
… on Sundays be a plus for the Giants’ special teams?
"Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." -- Barry Switzer
by my name IS Earl on Sep 29, 2010 1:57 AM EDT reply actions
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