Instant Analysis: Shawn Andrews, A Good -- And Worrisome -- Move
by Ed Valentine on Aug 20, 2010 11:33 AM EDT
in New York Giants News
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I have two initial reactions to the New York Giants rather shocking signing of former Philadelphia Eagle two-time Pro Bowl offensive lineman Shawn Andrews.
- I LOVE the move. Shoot, the guy is a 27-year-old two-time Pro Bowler and he came cheap. I mean, his competition for a roster spot is Guy Whimper, Adam Koets, Kevin Boothe, Herb Taylor and -- maybe -- Rich Seubert. So, what's the harm? Maybe he can play, maybe he can't. We already know we don't really want to see most of those guys I mentioned on the field, so this is a good -- no make that great -- gamble.
- The move worries the heck out of me. It makes me think the Giants are more concerned about the condition of Chris Snee's knee than they are saying -- after all Andrews' best position has been right guard. It makes me think maybe they aren't sure Seubert has anything left in the tank. It makes me think they are hedging their bets against having to move David Diehl back outside if Will Beatty flops at left tackle. It makes me think maybe they aren't sure Kareem McKenzie can hold up for another full season, and they aren't sure how to replace him if he goes down.
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Not sure...
How to take this deal, but its low risk, and they said Reese had been monitoring him for a little bit, so he had to show something. And Ed you made a good point, look at the guys he has to beat out for a roster spot.
Couldn't agree more Ed...
As far as value and potential upside, signing Andrews is a no-brainer. At worst, he doesn’t work out, at best he’s a solid backup and spot starter when needed. To have a former pro bowler in that kind of role is great. On the other hand, what does this say about the current state of our o-line, most importantly Chris Snee? I’m with you Ed, happy with the low-risk gamble but uneasy about the larger reasons for making it.
Exactly
It’s the reasons behind making the move that concern me, not whether Andrews himself can still play. Shoot, we know Koets and Whimper can’t.
by Ed Valentine on Aug 20, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
"the reasons...," etc.
Exactly. I had very strong suspicions, enough in fact to believe, but no concrete proof. It’s a bummer that the organization has more or less forgotten about the OL for a couple of years. Yes, receivers were needed and the D needed bolstering, but for the past two drafts I hoped they’d spring for a high draft pick Ol. At this point we have a plethora of receivers and, if enough of them come through (not a sure shot) almost an embarrassment of riches with the D.
Yeah but the QB has to have time to throw it to them.
We haven’t faced any high caliber pass rush defenses yet but I dread that time. I simply don’t know what we have on the Offensive line. None of us do. The Andrews move doesn’t bother me even if it does point to a potential problem with other personnel. Reese saw it and did what was necessary. I am just glad he did it now instead of waiting for this to come to a head in a regular season game.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 20, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
we don’t really know if he can still play, he hasn’t played in almost 2 years? If Boothe were healthy, Whimper wouldn’t be seeing much time. (Boothe will probably start season on PUP list I would presume)..If they want to bring him in as a backup, that’s fine with me.
I do wonder about Snee though? I thought it was just some fluid on the knee?
"Unless your drink is expecting rain, you should probably reconsider.
STAY THIRSTY my friends".
by Great Gatsby on Aug 20, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
At best, he might be better than a spot starter
This guy was the 16th pick in the draft in 2004 and is a 3 time pro bowler. When they are all healthy I like our line. They are a lunch pail kind of bunch and are tough football players. David Diehl, for instance, is a good, tough, hardworking football player. He plays every game, and we will never have to worry whether he’s got his head on straight. However, I wouldn’t call him an athlete. Andrews is. If he’s in shape, healthy, and got his head on straight, he’s better than anyone on our line. Of course, it is those if’s that you worry about.
I know some of the folks at Bleeding Green Nation think he is done.
(pointing to myself) Count me as one of them.
Formerly Bye, Dawk :(
you just don't give away 2 time pro bowler Guards/ Tackles and EXTEND Justice
If you think Andrews willing to play. A team that TREASURES Tackles, just doesn’t give them away.
In Kolb we trust
by yophillybro on Aug 20, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
He actually is a tackle. The Eagles drafted him as a tackle, but with Runyan and Tra Thomas firmly in place they moved him inside to play guard just to get him on the field, and he flourished there. But the Eagles had every intention of moving him out to tackle eventually, and he was the projected starting RT last year… before he sort of quit, that is.
Formerly Bye, Dawk :(
You guys know best but
it really is a 0 risk move
I can see why philly dumped him. History, drafted and paying as tackle playing guard, started demoted to 2nd team, etc. That stuff doesn’t exist with Giants.
"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning
Best. Sig.
Ever.
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 20, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
Against all odds, against all circumstance were you don't have a shot, you succeed
All you hear about is the past, the past... the past is the !@#$ing past, this is the present.
THIS IS TEMPORARY! A CHAMPIONSHIP IS PERMANENT
-Michael Strahan
Lol - Thanks
I kind of see it as a comment on life in general.
"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning
Couldn't agree more.
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 20, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
MikeGarafolo
Andrews when asked about what happened in Philly: “The only time I look in the rearview is for the cops and I don’t speed.” #nyg
I need to follow his twitter again.
In Kolb we trust
by yophillybro on Aug 20, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha, yup, sounds like a Shawn Andrews quote alright… They often leave you wondering… Wait, what does that mean?
Formerly Bye, Dawk :(
I didn't want to say it...
but you took the words outta my mouth….
this guy hasn’t changed one bit….
double facepalms
Quick prediction by the way...
Very soon Andrews will come out with some sort of statement saying that he loves football, he’s excited, and he’s looking forward to dominating again… which will of course get all the fans fired up. For your own sanity – Resist the urge to believe him.
Formerly Bye, Dawk :(
Let the "Beasting" Begin.
Remember that one.
I bet he is reading this blog right Now. He is probrably pissed at me. Shawn, I aint mad at you. You just gotta stop reading this stuff bro.
In Kolb we trust
by yophillybro on Aug 20, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
lmao
so…this means he looks in the mirror for cops b/c he smokes ghanja? or drinks and drives? or totes tha nani?? lol
this quote speaks all kinds of fk’d up. There was so many other ways to answer that question. smh lol
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
Damn bro. Why not get a license plate that says: "LAWBRKER"
semsemma, it does seem to imply that something is going on. Maybe check the trunk for kidnapped Eagles fans who were hating on him.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 20, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
come again?
TheBlueScreen
Much bigger than I expected … RT @ebenezersamuel Haven’t heard official terms, but #NYG Shawn Andrews said he thinks its 6-year deal. #NFL
6 year deal is meaningless unless there’s guaranteed money behind it. In fact, a long deal with minimal guaranteed money is very team-friendly.
Formerly Bye, Dawk :(
exactly. They should just write NFL contracts on toilet paper.
by BigBlue4Life on Aug 20, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
TheBlueScreen
Shawn Andrews’ agent confirms he got a 6-year deal with #NYG. Guaranteed money is small, but has “more upside” in 2nd year of contract.
That's whats up.
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 20, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, the team held all the cards here. THis is like the contract they’d give to a UDFA. Andrews has worked out for several teams over the summer and been passed on by every one. Latest was the Bengals if I remember correct.
I dunno, maybe the Giants saw something these other teams didn’t?
And while it certainly is a “low risk” move, I don’t really see the “high reward” portion. I don’t have a list of the guys who spent almost 3 years out of football and returned to pro bowl form, but I can’t imagine it’s very long. Has anyone done it?
I said this a year before the Eagles released him, I said it when they released him and I’ll say it now… There is not a player in the NFL I have less confidence in than Shawn Andrews.
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Rick Williams maybe?
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 20, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Ricky*
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 20, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Hard to believe
he got a six year deal, even if the guarantee money is low?
"Unless your drink is expecting rain, you should probably reconsider.
STAY THIRSTY my friends".
by Great Gatsby on Aug 20, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s more like he accepted a 6-year deal. It’s a bad contract for a player, because the Giants can cut him at any time, but if Andrews actually does pan out, he’s stuck in his crappy contract for 6 years. It’s not like in baseball.
Formerly Bye, Dawk :(
I am not
overly excited about it, let’ see what he has left? Yep, I know it’s a low risk move for the Giants, and not like the baseball fat cats with the long term deal, can you say Ollie Perez, haha!
"Unless your drink is expecting rain, you should probably reconsider.
STAY THIRSTY my friends".
by Great Gatsby on Aug 20, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't believe
you just wrote that name. I’d feel depressed right now, if it weren’t Friday afternoon.
Putting aside
the merits of Shawn Andrews, which is low risk — high reward move, it is troubling that the Giants have put themselves in a position to need this kind of bandaid. Except for Beatty they haven’t groomed any viable replacement linemen in the last few years. It was unrealistic to expect this group to be healthy for all of 2010 and yet we didn’t use a pick on the OL in this year’s draft until round 5.
by Tucker Fredrickson on Aug 20, 2010 12:17 PM EDT reply actions
Absolutely on target, TF
I’ve been waiting for JR to do something. He was in a position where he had to…finally. With all our unusable talent, I thought he’d put a package together for a trade. As Ed says, this is a no risk move. The only surprise is that they neglected the OL for so long.
Backseat Drivers
For those whining about the Giants inability to groom “replacement” linemen (that you “knew” was going to be a problem", I offer a couple of thoughts:
1) Reese signed our starters long term after the SB. I would bet he doesn’t think as poorly of them as everyone on this board does. I know I don’t. I expect the SAME five guys that have been starting every game for us, to be starting for us this season again. AFTER this year, then my bet is that Petrus will replace Seubert once he learns to play the game.
2) I guess you forgot that the Giants had about 8 gaping holes on the defense side of the ball and that opposing teams were scoring 40+ a game on us with regularity. I disagree that the remedy to this is to draft backup/developmental OLinemen “IN CASE” someone goes down or gets old. The future is NOW. We needed to fill those gaping holes in the dam, not potential holes.
3) Our offense – AND our running game has been fine, has been scoring enough points to win consistently and WILL BE fine. For everyone whining about the “horrible” demise of our running game – what were you looking at? We were still in the upper echelon of the league with NO healthy running backs!!! Its also harder to run the ball when you are down 21pt in the first half of most games. Give it a rest already.
Most of this is blabber. We need to worry about our linebackers now, not our OL.
"knew"
Well, both last year and this I posted my preference for trading up for a stud OLT (not a backup/developmental one, like Beatty, certainly at best a developmental pick.) To that extent I knew.
Yes, he addressed the D. I do think he went overboard in doing so,. On the other hand, in a sense he had to because so many of last year’s new faces didn’t work out (yet?) I hope much of this was attributable to Spag’s departure, etc. IMO, we are blessed with an abundance of talent on the D right now and Fewell will make optimal use of it.
At best a developmental pick?
Beatty was a 2nd round pick and considered one of the five best tackles in his class. Not usually the resume of a developmental pick.
We need more toilet paper, I'm taking my talents to South Beach.
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 20, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Look at mock drafts from the time and some people have us taking Beatty with our first round pick.
Against all odds, against all circumstance were you don't have a shot, you succeed
All you hear about is the past, the past... the past is the !@#$ing past, this is the present.
THIS IS TEMPORARY! A CHAMPIONSHIP IS PERMANENT
-Michael Strahan
Before the draft
when lots of people were worried about the defense, and others were convinced that running back was a dire need, there were still quite a few among us who wanted an OL pick in the first round.
Anyway, you misunderstood my point. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have addressed defensive issues too. My point is that if you want an elite tackle you have to use a high pick to get one. If you are not going to use a first round pick to get one then you need to use lower round picks to load up on guys who are projects and then see which ones stick. Instead even though it could easily be seen that age and injury were highly likely to the core offensive line, the Giants just stuck with a string of back ups, none of whom in 3 or 4 years has shown even a glimmer of being quality offensive players.
Last year’s draft was a prime chance to bring in some competition for our underperforming subs. Was it necessary to take Beckum and Barden after we’d already taken Nicks? Was there any point to taking two late round cornerbacks who most people had down as UDFAs? In my opinion two of those picks should have been used to provide O line depth. This year did we really need Adrian Tracy? I’m not even sure Dillard was a good pick. Maybe neither pick would have panned out — but we knew that our back ups were substandard. Now everybody’s just assuming that Petrus, a fifth round pick is going to turn into a stud. Maybe he will. I hope he will. But when you are relying on on late round picks, the better strategy is in numbers.
I think Ed is right and the signing of Shawn Andrews shows that the Giants are feeling a bit desperate about the O line situation. The guy has physical and mental problems. Several other teams worked him out and passed. Even the Cowboys who have perhaps a bigger offensive line problem than us weren’t interested in him. Maybe we’ll catch lightning in a bottle, but I think the team didn’t plan adequately to replenish the line and the consequences may be felt this year.
Please note that I’ve attempted to keep the discussion civil and not characterized your argument with a series of pejorative terms or any snide tone.
by Tucker Fredrickson on Aug 21, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
But we did address it last year in the second round.
We did not however address the defensive line in anything other than free agency last year (which turned out awful).
This year we grabbed what appears to be a couple of young studs in the first two rounds to sure up the defensive line.
Hindsight is 20/20, but I was completely on board with Jerry going defensive line this year, especially considering we had two Pro-Bowlers, and what we thought was a promising second year tackle coming in this year.
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 20, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I was glad to see the Beatty pick, but never thought it was enough.
That’s why I kept talking about trading up for a high draft pick ahead of Beatty last year and this year as well. It looks like I may have been right. I’m not happy about that. Some top notch offensive lineman have long careers, but to rely on a whole unit to do so is unrealistic, particularly with one of the cogs a guy like Richie, a true warrior always giving his all but one doomed to a shortened career. McKenzie’s looking good at least on running plays so far, but he has a lot of tread on his tires. Now we have deal to worry about (possibly.)
I can agree with that.
But we also had major concerns at WR and LB going into last years draft which Jerry chose to address. I love(d) the Nicks pick, and Sintim looks to have all sorts of upside.
I can completely agree that it would have been nice to spend some high-end draft choices on OL, but if Beatty can step up and Snee can stay healthy our line will be far from bad. On top of that if Nicks, Sintim, JPP, and Linval Joseph all become solid contributors (which at this point isn’t such a far-fetched thought) than we can really focus our attention on the OL in next years draft.
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 20, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
It's hard to complain about what JR did re WR
and DB. My problem is that I covet a blue chip OLT just as much as I covet a blue chip QB. If we can trade up for a QB, why not an OLT? I wonder about TC on this question as well. After all, his first move at Jacksonville was to use a #1 on an OLT.
Anyway, I had hoped for a little more even-handedness From JR re draft picks and FA pickups. I retain full faith and confidence in him despite what I consider turns out to be a continuing lack of full appreciation for OL needs (until this inspired p/u of Andrews?—we hope.)
When have we ever had a blue chip LT?
I mean like, ever? Doug Riesenberg? I’ve been watching the Giants for 22 years, I don’t remember ever having an elite tackle.
We need more toilet paper, I'm taking my talents to South Beach.
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 20, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
jumbo
Regroup refocus..retool...
by Mr.Williams on Aug 20, 2010 11:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
+1
You either need to bring in some low round draft picks for the O line or build a reputable set of back ups by drafting mid to late round projects every year until you have a set of game worthy back ups. We did neither. Instead we let the same batch of guys who hadn’t panned out like Whimper and Koets hold down those spots, and for awhile, we got away with it.. Reese just gambled on that strategy too long. Even with late first or second round picks it can often take 3 or 4 years before they’re really NFL ready.
by Tucker Fredrickson on Aug 20, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
that's the nature of the draft
its very hard to spend equally in the draft to fill all the positions you need, might need, or will need on both sides of the ball. you wind up overspending on one area because who knows if anyone will work out.
for a team like the giants who are perpetually middle of the pack in draft order, its very hard to get sure fire impact guys. there will inevitably be a decline as the league’s bottom dwellers rack up higher draft spots for years and years.
Right
maintaining a football team (sports? life?) is like spinning plates. As you soon as you get one thing in order something else becomes a problem. It’s hard to get everything going at once.
I agree that we are correct to be worried but I think there are enough parts that they can keep it together for this year. There will be some experienced o- linemen cut over the next couple of weeks. There always are. And if the Giants really need one then I think they will get one.
"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning
Well said Brains.
Yes, Brains is my pet name for you.
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 20, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but you still *try* to keep them all going
Reese is like a guy spinning plates who can only focus on one plate at a time. He sticks on that plate making sure it spins at top speed and balance while other plates are smashing against the floor. Reese has demonstrated to me that he becomes far too tunnel visioned and does not consider the whole of the team adequately. No, you are not going to have a stud at every spot and some areas will always be stronger than others, but the best GMs work to ensure some balance across their unit. Reese doesn’t do that. Last year it was the WR position. He went after all sorts of options to throw a ball at while ignoring other positions like oh safety. What happened is we had a plethora of talent at WR and horrible safety play. This year he tunnel visioned on safety and defensive line while ignoring the shakiness of the LB core and OL. Now here we are picking up “low risk high reward” street guys hoping to get lucky and cover us for the fact that Reese simply didn’t do his job AND looking at a pathetic LB core hoping somehow a crop of late round LBs turn into something more than any GM thinks they are. (our biggest hope being an old man with a limp). Reese has been a GM of too many conversion projects and projects in general along with relying on lucky strikes. We need a GM that looks to build a solid well rounded unit by sensably balancing his resources fo draft picks and free agent auisitions.
a good point
but one i’ll disagree with. teams that try to to everything well, usually don’t do anything well. there’s just not enough equity in your draft picks to bolster every position, or even all three phases of the game. reese identifies a strong defense, particularly an elite defensive line as the lifeblood of this team as well as the future of the NFL.
he chose to spend the draft taking care of that first, and using other options for the other phases of the game.
you see the same thing with other teams, especially those in rebuilding…i think cincy is a good example, they build defense through the draft every single year and that has been the reason for their resurgance.
Strengths and Weaknesses vs. Overabunance and gapping holes
Obviously, as I stated there will always be sections of your team stronger than others. What sections will be strongest depend on the style of team, but for a team to be successful you can’t compeltely ignore the other positions. Take the Saints for example. They had a high flying offense, but that wasn’t enough. They brough in some balance bu improving their defensive side of the ball with a new coordinator and some new players. The result was a superbowl victory. They weren’t all of a sudden a defesnive team, their identity was still a high flying offense, but they had a defense that could keep up. In my view their are going to be positions on your team where you look for starters and spots where you look for stars, and then you try to look for some quality dependable depth behind that. Reese’s problem is he looks for multiple stars at just one position at a time while ignoring that he may not even have starters at another position (let alone dependable backups). The fact that we have these issues at places like the D line of having more guys than we can even find places and time to play but at other positions like LB can’t even find a guy worth putting out there is an utter failure to me. Stars sitting on the bench for one position and not having any starters for another and no backups for another is bad no matter how you slice it. Reese had a lucky first draft and has been unimpressive since. The love and defense he gets boils down to homerism.
Wow...
Reese had a lucky first draft and has been unimpressive since. The love and defense he gets boils down to homerism.
That’s just ridiculous.
Ahamad Bradshaw, Steve Smith, Hakeem Nicks, Mario Manningham, and Kevin Boss will all be starting on this team this year. After what I saw last year, I have confidence in saying that they will all be greatly contributing to the highest scoring offense in Giants history, and they were all drafted by Jerry Reese.
Guys like Clint Sintim, Kenny Phillips, Terrell Thomas, JPP, Lindval Joseph, and Phillip Dillard have not even reached sniffed their full potential yet, so how are you going to say that drafting them was either failure or success?
What if Sintim and Dillard tear it up this year? What if Beatty turns out to be a great left tackle?
Fact is we still don’t know how well these guys will or won’t do, but to say Jerry’s been unimpressive is just wrong. He didn’t get lucky his first draft, he had an all time draft in which several rookies contributed greatly in there first years. To expect that to happen year in and year out would be completely unrealistic.
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 20, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
"...we don't know...,"
Right. Only time will tell on so many of his recent draft/FA picks.
Which is a problem
Too many projects. Most teams expect much more immediate results out of high draft picks. JPP we are being told could be great in 2 to 3 years, but he looks pretty sloppy right now. Sintim a 2nd round pick could be great we are told if he can work out the transition. Beatty was a great pick we are told because with time he might be able to develop into a LT for us. Barden has all this potential we are told if he can just figure out how to play in the NFL. We shouldn’t be having to wait so much on so many picks while at the same time hoping to get struck by lightning and have other positions like LB somehow find a stud when we only ever pickup very late draft picks and old men on their way out of the league for that position.
How can you say he looks sloppy
after one lousy preseason game, in which he had a sack on a starting former Pro Bowl tackle and stuffed three running plays? What more are you expecting? The draft is a crapshoot, it always is no matter where you draft from. I’m sure the Browns didn’t think Courtney Brown was going to be a project, I’m sure they saw a “sure thing blue- chipper.” Cedric Jones, Gaines Adams, Andre Smith, etc. to name a few highly drafted “blue-chippers” that have stunk up their respective joints. It’s a crapshoot.
We need more toilet paper, I'm taking my talents to South Beach.
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 20, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
1 sack
And many rag doll flops to the ground in a pile. Anyone who watched that game and knows the slightest bit about football knows the kid is raw as raw can be. There are no sure things, but there are bigger and smaller gambles you can’t argue that Reese hasn’t tended to projects over more reliable choices because he was gambling on upside. Gambling can make you look like a genius if it works and a dope if it doesn’t.
this is what happens when you're a good team forced to pick low for so many years
you wind up with players that might be good, but will take 2 or 3 years to develop. if the giants had a top 10 pick every year with reese at the helm, i’m sure we’d see impact rookies.
We drafted pretty high this year
And got the definition of project.
That's a lot of ifs
If if and if. What if a bunch of late round and UDFA players all explode and become superstars. I think anyone would like that little fantasy to come true, but most GMs acknowledge it won’t. Most GMs acknowledge that certain positions like LT take a high round draft pick and that when you have a position of need you have to fill it with something a little more solid than a late rounder.
Let’s look at your list of “starters”. Ham won’t start. He is the 3rd WR right now and is positioned only to move down not up that chart based on his current ball and route skills. He is more athlete than WR. I love Bradshaw and want him to have more carries, but we have to see if his body can hold up to that. I’ll also point out that you listed mostly pass catchers, the position I said Reese over focused on while ignoring others. Thank you for proving my point for me.
I’m not expecting an all world draft every year. I’m a realist. Which is why I’m also not absurdly high on a guy just because he is the GM of my team. What I want is a well thought out balanced approach to filling the roster needs of the team. Reese brought in 2 free agent safeties and drafted one in the 3rd round. That’s focusing pretty heavy on one position, just like he did last year with WR. He also went and spent his 1st and 2nd round picks on DL which was supposedly already astrength of this team but was getting knocked for underperforming. It is as if he has no faith in himself to evaluate talent so he has to hedge his bets by doubling and tripling down.
I tried to avoid responding but I couldn't help myself
You call it doubt. I call it prudence. The same way you won’t assume that late round picks and UDFA players will become superstars, Reese wouldn’t, and shouldn’t, assume that all of last year’s injured players or underperformers will simply bounce back or stay healthy this season.
Osi had a knee injury and is coming off a bad year. There is no guarantee that he returns to his old form. Tuck has been injured in three of his five seasons. Canty was injured last year and hasn’t proven anything in the 4-3 scheme. Bernard was injured last year and hasn’t proven anything in a Giants uniform. Alford is coming off both an ACL and MCL injury. Reese responded by drafting a DE who can learn behind veteran players and a DT who can contribute early.
Is it Reese’s fault that O’Hara had an ankle injury, Snee has a chronic knee injury, Seubert broke his arm, and primary backup Boothe has a torn pectoral? You can’t plan for everything. He drafted a tackle who was highly regarded as a great pickup in the 2nd round and was able to contribute as a rookie in place of McKenzie. Beatty played well against the Jets and is in line to start this season. That would make Seubert serviceable depth. Reese picked up Petrus, who came from a school that plays the exact system that the Giants O-line plays. That makes his ability to contribute early that much more probable. Then today he picked up a All-Pro caliber guard who has everything to prove and everything to lose if he doesn’t prove it. If Andrews is serviceable at all, he becomes great depth.
You say tunnel vision on the safeties. Can you be sure that KP returns to his old self? I’m the biggest optimist when it comes to KP but I wouldn’t hedge my bets. Rolle and Grant replace Brown and Rouse. Johnson might not have made the team had Chad Jones not gotten into an accident. A weakness has become a strength.
You say that Reese ignored the LB spot. Who was available when the Giants picked? Did you want them to give up the farm to draft McClain before the Raiders? Did you want them to pay through the nose to trade then pay for DeMeco Ryans or Barrett Ruud? Maybe you wanted Sean Lee in the 2nd round but Dallas traded up for him. Also, Lee had knee problems so the same way you question Bradshaw’s ability, you should question Lee’s. Maybe you wanted Weatherspoon. He was too high at 15 and was already gone at 19.
Michael Boley played four years as a SAM LB and now he’s playing WILL. That’s great versatility in a LB. Goff hasn’t shown that much yet but he’s smart and physically gifted. If he’s playing behind solid DTs, which Canty and Linval should be, then Goff’s job becomes a whole lot easier anyway. Sintim was a fringe 1st round pick who the Giants got in the 2nd around. He’s learning a new position in his 2nd defense in as many years. It’s not easy for pass-rushing LB to also play in space. There’s a reason why only Julian Peterson has been a Pro Bowl 4-3 SAM LB in the entire NFL in the last 3 years.
You talk as if every team has every spot filled except for the Giants. The only team that can say that is the team that wins the Super Bowl. Everyone else has a hole to fill.
"Make sure you don't Dez Bryant me." -- Justin Tuck
Well stated.
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 21, 2010 4:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Take off the rose colored glasses and reread your post
If you are really worried about the DE position you must think the JPP pick was a bad one because he is not expected to do anything for us this year. Like we are told with so many JR picks he “could” be great in 2 to 3 years. If you have questions about Tuck, Kiwi, and Osi, JPP isn’t an answer.
Canty and Bernard, thank you for providing two good examples of JR’s follies in FA. Those two can’t be seen as good pickups. Both are overpaid. Bernard was on the decline of his career and Canty was yet another conversion project. The man is a 34 DE not a 43 DT.
It’s not JRs fault that the OL all got hurt at once. It is very much JR’s fault that he had nothing ressembling serviceable depth behind those starters. Especially when you consider the age and wear across the board on that starting line. That is simply negligence. We don’t have a reserve that can snap a ball to save his life. Even the so called primary backup Boothe can’t. Maybe Petrus turns into something, but it isn’t a solid answer and there are more questions along that line than he can answer.
Beatty was a developmental pick as a LT prospect. 2nd round tackles tend to be your RT, most teams accept that a LT is going to cost a 1st if you want near term production. LT and QB are very similar in today’s game as far as the draft goes.
The LB position didn’t just become a problem this year. It was a problem last year and even before that you could see it coming. JR kept hoping he’d strike gold with these 5th and 6th round picks rather than investing a quality pick there. Because those picks haven’t materialized we’ve been skirting by on one bandaid short term FA LB after another. Bulluck is just the latest. The draft was chalk full of LBs last year. This year Weatherspoon would have been a great pick. If some goes at 19 it wouldn’t be too high to take them at 15. That’s basic, I’m not sure how you can argue that one.
Yes tunnel vision on the safeties. Like you said if Chad Jones doesn’t have a car crash we have to cut MJ who is a serviceable backup. He is looking for 4 starters at safety when he has zero starters at other positions. That is tunnel vision.
Boley has not been impressive thus far as a Giant. He wasn’t able to hold onto his starting job in Atlanta. JR was hoping he’d refined the magic he had before dropping off (perhaps like this Andrews signing). Goff has been pathetic, enough said there, but what should be expected he is just a 5th rounder. That’s the point. Sintim was a fringe 1st rounder as a 34 OLB. As a 43 SAM he is a conversion project/gamble, one that so far hasn’t worked out. Your defense of Sintim that he is learning a new position is agreeing with my knock on JR that he goes for too many projects.
No I’m not saying every team has it all worked out and filled up, but there are many teams with far fewer tapping holes. As you can see in you attempts to defend JR you actually proved my points several times over. I’ll give him that he has a knack for finding quality UDFA like Bruce Johnson and Victor Cruz, but the reality is that usually the UDFAs are brought in by some lower level personnel man not the GM. JR’s overall strategies to how he has approached the builiding of this team have to be questioned. The fact that you get offended by me saying this and adamantly defend him proves my other point that the love and defense he gets is homerism. If you took a realistic approach you’d be able to see flaws and acknowledge them. What you have a above is a long list of excuses trying to defend some things that are indegensable. I get it you love your team and don’t like to question it or find fault in it, but if JR were some other teams GM I think you would see the faults.
most teams accept that a LT is going to cost a 1st if you want near term production
Michael Roos – 1x Pro Bowl, 2nd Round
Matt Light – 3x Super Bowl, 2x Pro Bowl, 2nd Round
Jason Peters – 3x Pro Bowl, UDFA
Jared Gaither- 5th Round
Marcus McNeill – 2x Pro Bowl, 2nd Round
You can find talent ANYWHERE in a draft if you know how to scout. Its a total crapshoot and JR has looked like a GENIUS for some of his late round picks. Look at O’Hara and Snee, our best 2 for some time. Snee: 2nd round pick , O’Hara: UDFA by the Browns. A little prior research might aide your arguments next time.
Uh hello, planes? It's blimps. You win.
Did Roos-Mcneil
list players who provided near term production? I have no idea. If they did, are they exceptions that prove the rule?. Once again, I have no idea. Dd they all play OLT as rookies? Once again, no idea.
If you can grab an All-Pro type OLT you can insert in the lineup as a rookie, you’ve struck gold and if you can get him in the second or later round, you got platinum.
They don’t have to make All-Pro in year one, but just do a creditable job as an LOT (JR has called such players, “purple cows,” which tells me why he has yet to trade up for one: their rarity makes them too great a risk.)
Missing the point
Yes talent can come from later. You can get lucky. Relying on getting lucky is foolish is my point. Your list also doesn’t address my point about near term. Peters for example I know started on the practice squad. Made the actual roster through special teams, then played RT before seeing any time at LT. That is a long road. Nobody originally picked him up thinking they had a stud LT. I’d have to research the others to get their story, but I’d have to guess they didn’t all step in as LT right off the bat.
That partially responds to my questions.
Thanks
As long as you’re doing the research, please post it. I’m interested to see if Real has a case or if he did entirely miss your point.
I have to say that even if he’s even only half-way correct, I’d have to seriously consider revising firm convictions i’ve had about the value of OLTs and how best to secure the services of a “purple cow.”
Here goes
You have the story on Peters. McNeill and Gaither are special cases in that they had non football reasons for sliding. McNeill had health concerns and a spine issue. Gaither was a supplemental draft due to being academically inellegibale. Had those two non football problems not existed those players would have likely gone sooner. Even with that the Ravens drafted Oher in the first presumably to be able to take over for Gaither and potentially pitch him over to RT. Gaither didn’t start immediately but replaced Ogden when he went away. Oher immediately started at RT.
Roos and Light both came in and started LT during their first years. Being second round picks is somewhat deceiving though. Roos was the third tackle taken in his draft and Light the fit in his. Beatty in comparison was the eigth. This can be attributed to the fact that league wide the value of tackle has increased, meaning you must now take on higher than you could ten years ago.
I should add
That real’s list gives you some exceptions to the rule, it does not negate the rule. If you take a look around the league at the young stars at the LT position you find first round draft picks like Staley and Thomas. You also see in recent drafts more and more tackles being targeted earlier rather than later.
You can find some talent later, but they may have outside issues, need some development time, or be better suited to RT.
Your data is enough to convince me not to
consider revising my opinion re OLTs. There are exceptions, but the chances of getting an immediate blue chipper are lessened. Beatty could morph into one.
On the other hand, the motive for drafting him wasn’t to secure an immediate blue chipper. I’m not sure the Giants were even looking for him to become one eventually. I’m not even sure they thought he was a certainty to eventually be serviceable OLT.
I am certain they were convinced that he would at least become a starting ORT in his 2nd or 3rd year. He’s done enough already to be given a shot at OLT in his second year. I’d like to see him make it. I think he will, but don’t think he’ll be a blue chipper.
As someone pointed out in the above postings, you don’t need to have a blue chip OLT to win the SB. Still, It would be nice to have one and it would be more important to have one there than anywhere else on the O except QB.
BTW, I’ve backed him as being OLT come opening day by betting $ that he will
Sorry just can't agree with you at all.
D-Line was awful last year, Reese fixed it.
Secondary was far and away the weakest part of our team, it’s now become a strength.
Offense was not an issue as we had the 8th best in the league, and yet, we’re still making moves to ensure that if quality players go down, there will be something there to at least keep us competitive.
Our secondary, wide receiving corp, and defensive line are now so well stocked with young talent that we won’t have a need to draft at any of those positions for quite some time.
That’s all thanks to Jerry, who’s doing one hell of a job.
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 21, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Are we stocked or overstocked
@ D line and WR? I say over. And under on the O line. That’s why I thought he’d be putting together a package of overstocked players to trade for help on the O line. Instead he grabs Andrews, a really nice move if he works out. Getting Beatty was also a nice move, if he can step up and play OLT. He focused on the D line two years running. Given the right choices, they might have been fixed last year.
My contention re OLT is that it is the second most important position on O. You have to try to get a premier player there. There were premier OLTs available last year and this that went before our picks. He might have tested the water in terms of trading up and found that he couldn’t offer enough to another team to allow him to trade up for one. I don’t know. but he really has more or less given short shrift to the O line for quite some time now, with Beatty being the only high draft pick.
Now he’s dealing with what might very well be an emergency. I think he saw the potential problem and gambled that the O line would continue to hold up. On the face of it, that didn’t happen.
Stocked, over stocked...
Either way, we can both agree that we probably don’t have to draft at secondary, WR, or DL next year, or even the year after no?
As I said before I can completely agree that it would have been nice to get a big time OLT, but as you said, it probably wasn’t in the cards. Teams hate giving up there top draft picks, and many people here still feel we overpaid for Eli. How do you think the response would be if we had to put together a similar package for an offensive tackle that, at the time, we really didn’t need?
There are premier OLT available every year in the draft, and next year will be no different. If our O-Line, which is by far not the worst in the league can play up it’s ability this year, than next year with all of the positions Jerry has managed to stock/overstock, we can literally focus ALL of our picks on OL and LBs if we wanted too.
The only point I’m trying to get across is that Jerry is doing a good job. He’s not perfect, but it’s impossible to plan for every disaster. Our offensive line had set the record for most consecutive games played together (I think) and if there was one position I was going to focus on a bit less (but by no means completely ignore) while taking care of the positions of obvious weakness, offensive line would have been the one.
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 22, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
You won't get an argument from me re JR
Overal, so far he has been one of the best GMs in the league. He did gamble with the OL, but given how Beatty looked last night and if Andrews comes through, he could very well wind up pulling a rabbit out of a hat.
There are four positions on a football team where I crave the best: QB, OLT, MLB and Free Safety
good point on the actual need for an OT
Beatty was most likely the best player available at that point when they drafted him.
Nicks and Sintim I saw were possibilities for the GIants 1st rouder. And I saw plenty of instances where Beatty was a first rounder as well.
I doubt they had OT that high as a need, but Beatty was a hell of a value there. Hasn’t 100% panned out, but its a good thing the people who count in the org. aren’t as impatient as many fans seem to be with regard to draft picks.
I think the next thing they’ll get along the OL will be a true center.
by FreeBradshaw on Aug 22, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt Beatty seems to developing as planned.
Kudos to JR if he has a good second year as a starting OLT. Yeah, they need a center and they need a decent one now. Let’s face it, it looks like they don’t have a relaible one if O’Hara goes down. At least the exchanges went well last night.
i'm not sure the saints are a good comparison
i don’t want to take away anything from that team, but they were converting to a new defensive system and happened to have guys already that would make it work. most teams don’t have that and need a draft or two to build that kind of depth. they also had a bunch of guys on that side of the ball playing out of their minds, i really don’t think scott fujita and an aging darren sharper could be expected to repeat that kind of success for another year.
Gotta give bigblue777 some props on his stance and also say I agree.
This is what I have been reluctant to to say ever since the draft because I knew it would excite this type of reaction. Kudos to bigblue777 for saying what absolutely needed to be said. Yes Reese has always followed a particular formula in which his focus is on Defense at the expense of the offense. He has pretty much stayed within the bounds of what he learned from Ernie Accorsi who mentored him.
However, It seems that in this NFL day and age, we are in a new age where the balance of power has seemed to polarize on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball and success will not come if one side is weaker than the other. The question IMO is not whether J Reese knows how to pick talent. We all know he does. The question is why isn’t J Reese set on addressing critical positions that are in dire need of improvement on the offense as he has on defense? Based on our present circumstances, any argument that is designed to justify his actions is a weak attempt at misdirection.
Every team that has won the SB within the last 5 years did it with a potent offense and a swarming defense. In our present condition, a SB championship is a wet dream. Eli was nearly killed during the last game and yeah, we can say he was at fault but if the needs of the OL had been addressed, Eli could have recovered. All of you who are arguing in opposition to this should stop wasting energy and face reality.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 20, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...I try to watch what I say too....don't like getting everyone riled up
LMAO
but seriously….I think JR over looked the S position last year. That’s something that we can basically all agree on.
I don’t think comparing the LB core or the OLine to the S position is exactly the same scenario though. First of all, we have a plethora of LBs…“no name” guys but we got plenty. Second, I think we all know the Giants stance right now when it comes to Defense. JR is just like EA…he likes his Dlinemen and DBs….it’s just something we’re going to have to get used to. If the Dline can win their battles the LBs could be ok.
In regards to Oline. I have stated that it is a concern of mine and probably the biggest weakness. However, I’m not writing guys off yet. I just think it’s an area we gotta keep an eye on.
I think JR has done a fine job……but no, he’s not perfect.
Pretty harsh and bitter.
There’s a lot of painfull truth in what you say, but JR has had too many coups for me to get down on him as you do. There are no more than a handful of GMs I would take over him.
Curious blue...
Which GMs would you consider taking over JR?
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 20, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
The three Ps.
Polian, Pioli, Parcells (he’s learned a lot from his previous stints as GM), plus Belly and Loomis. I probably ovelooked someone. Not many, all things considered.
Pioli did nothing
It was Bill Belichick. That’s like saying Tom Heckert was making the personnel moves and not Andy Reid.
"Make sure you don't Dez Bryant me." -- Justin Tuck
I've heard that said, but
I’ve never seen it documented. I’m giving him credit as the GM of a highly successful team. If Belly was in effect the real GM, then Pioli deserves no kudos for the Patriots’ success.
PS, no doubt Pioli owes a lot to Belly.
P certainly chose well in grabbing Spags, who had other offers that looked better on paper. The Chiefs future will tell whether the story of P being no more than a Belly pawn is true. I personally believe that a lot of the Patriots success is attributable to P and a lot of it came from being mentored by Belly. I do note that the Patriots seem to have declined a bit since P’s departure. Whether the two events are connected I don’t know. Time will give us a clue at least.
Not harsh or bitter
Just a realist. Just like I understand I can love my country but think some of the folks running it are bafoons, I can love my football team and see the faults of people in the organization. I know some don’t like that and feel you have to be all gung ho about who we’ve got calling the shots, but I don’t buy into that. I’m not part of the “trust in Reese” crowd. Is he worst GM in the league? No, but he isn’t a god amongst men either. I think anyone who really looks at the moves he has made has to question his tunnel vision nature.
I agree that he's overrated by a probable majority of BBVers,
although in time I beleive he’ll achieve legend status. If he’s what I think he is, he’ll learn a lot from poor choices he has made in the recent past.
That's all I'm asking for
He needs to recognize over focusing on one spot while ignoring others and completely undervaluing certain positions like LB is hurting this team. If he can adjust and bring more balance he and this team can do great things.
they say you cant judge a draft
Until 3 years have passed. So I’d say Jay Arrah has this season to prove ’08 out. Its foolish to discuss anything after. Until then…in Reese I trust.
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
by wilddre22 on Aug 20, 2010 10:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nicely put
I’ve thought Reese is a good talent evaluator. But I think you’ve put your finger on a weakness in his game.
by Tucker Fredrickson on Aug 21, 2010 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Reasonable low risk, high reward gamble
I have been expecting Reese to make an OL move before the season starts. If I had one complaint about this years off season, it is that they didn’t do enough to bolster the O-line, so this move doesn’t add to my worry – it was already there.
The youngsters need to start performing
The more I think about this....
the more I feel the same way….
Good bye Guy Whimper….The Giants have tried him at T and G and it seems like he may have worn out his welcome.
We need back up Olinemen….we can’t go into the season w/ just Deihl, Suebert, Ohara, Snee, McKenzie, Beatty, and Petrus….Whimper been under achieving for years….plus there’s always the chance you catch lightning in a bottle and strike gold….
O line has worried me for 18 months
And counting. RB and OL is what the Giants needed to address most importantly, the decline became apparent at the end of ‘08. Plaxico’s stupidity is NOT what brought their downfall at the end of that season. Age and deterioration did. Now, the Giants have been between a rock and a hard place. The deterioration came quick on both sides of the ball, the d was just the side to show the most horrific signs, then add the piss poor defensive scheming, you can’t be surprised the Giants went to fix the D first. But the O should have been addressed somehow. Their running game is going to be abominable this year, the only bright spot being some flashes from Bradshaw when he makes something out of nothing. Honestly, I think the Giants’ muckety mucks know that this team is in a rebuilding phase, despite all the platitudes about winning and rebounding and blah blah. The signs are too apparent to ignore and have been. Not being negative, just cooly observant. All that said, I will of course watch every game and hope against hope.
You can't be serious
You think the defense is going to suck, you think the running game is going to suck, you think everyone on the team is decrepit, and you think the team is in a rebuilding phase, but you’re not being “negative”. What a load of bull.
Just stop. You’re either a troll or just absurdly pessimistic.
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2010 Mets- Hey, we may suck, but what did you expect?
not a troll
but yes… absurdly pessimistic.. i dont think ive ever read 1 zillag post that wasnt about how horrible the giants are
by Plaxico Burress on Aug 20, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
welcome to the wonderful world...
….of zilla….G.
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
by wilddre22 on Aug 20, 2010 10:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, Zig isn't a troll.
Just painfully accurate.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 21, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
more painful then accurate
but he’s got some points.
by FreeBradshaw on Aug 21, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know
Even with our run game struggling last year we were still able to put up some pretty stellar numbers on offense.
Had the defense been even top 15 we would have been in the playoffs.
With all of the drastic moves made on the defensive side of the ball, both with coaching and players, you have to believe we’ll be towards the top half of the league again in that category.
And if the offense stays the same, or suffers even a marginal decline we should still be a playoff team.
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 20, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
so we went from the best team in football 11-1
to awful overnight, and it wasn’t because our offensive philosophy was centered around the WR that just shot himself? It was because of age?
I see your point, and we all have expressed concerns about the aging vets but, to quote ESPN’s pregame show “C’MON MAN”
Im just hoping Chris Snee is ok
I hope this isnt like signing Aaron Rouse right before KP goes on IR. Thats my main concern. I was already fairly certain Seubert was just about done.
And if Snee is ok and Andrews
somehow by the grace of God returns to form, that is a GREAT interior line with Snee, O’Hara and Andrews. I know that if is as HUGE as Jamarcus Russell’s waist line but stillm worth a gamble.
O-line
as you said can’t hurt and may make Reese look like he is the idiot savant he was in the 2007 draft, now go out and get a running back- 7 carries 1yd for our starting backfield isn’t floatin my boat.
ANDREWS
MAY AS WELL GIVE HIM A SHOT, WON’T COST ANYTHING IF HE FAILS. BUT I HAVE A HUNCH THAT REESE HAS STRUCK AGAIN. HE’S ONE OF THE BEST AND BRIGHTEST OF THE NEW GM’S. HE SEES TALENT IN A DIFFERENT LIGHT AND I AM INCLINED TO AGREE WITH HIM HERE. THIS GUY, IF HIS HEAD IS RIGHT, CAN FLAT OUT PLAY. SO, WHAT THE HELL—GOOD LUCK SHANE—WE’RE PULLING FOR YOU !!!
LIFETIME GIANTS FAN.
LOUD NOISES
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 20, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
That escalated quickly
"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning
Yeah...
I saw that. Hey, Rick killed a guy. You know you might want to find yourself a relative to stay with or a safe house, because you are probably wanted for murder.
Caps
Please, please, don’t use all caps.
by Ed Valentine on Aug 20, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
PETRUS
OH, ALMOST FORGOT. IF PETRUS PLAYS AS GOOD AS HE LOOKS—DAMN, WHAT AN O-LINE THEY WILL BE.
Worry?
We have to hope that Chris Snee’s injury is not serious. As long as Snee is ready to go on Sunday, Sept. 12 agains the Panthers, that is what is most important. I do not care if he misses the pre-season games. Get him healthy for games that count. Depth across the O-line has been a problem since last season. Signing Andrews now is a great thing. Another win-win from our genius GM Mr. Reese. The coaching staff can ease Andrews in over the coming three weeks. He can start or come off the bench at any OL postion. Just a great signing. Kudos to the GM.
Interesting signing..
I agree with Ed’s concerns about the actual status of Snee..I doubt they would sign him if he didn’t have gas left in the tank and his gas cap is screwed on tight..we’ll see
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
I can see next years first round pick already
Best OT or G available.. then the same in round 2
by Plaxico Burress on Aug 20, 2010 2:41 PM EDT reply actions
If he’s right he is the best guard in football. People say he’s mental or whatever, but that isn’t the real issue. He is a big guy with a bad back, and that rarely turns out well. He was our 2nd best player in 2007 with a blonde mohawk, don’t worry about him being weird his health is the issue.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
THIS IS THE FUNNIEST SERIES OF POSTS IN A WHILE...
I must credit a nice blend of Philly and Giant fans for making this one hilarious!
Whatever happens, Shawn should know he’s done what no one else has…brought us together…until he goes to the Pro Bowl again and we start smack talking the Green Guys again…
If Andrews goes to the PB again
I will wear a NY Giants dress at my local bar and take pictures and post it up here
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
The only NY Giants dress
that I’ve seen isn’t really a dress. It’s a nightie. I know because there’s a long-legged mami in my life who wears one.
As such, you can nightie bar-hop in the August after Andrews’ Pro Bowl season. We don’t want you getting pneumonia on account of losing a bet. We’re not an unreasonable lot.
"Make sure you don't Dez Bryant me." -- Justin Tuck
I'd love for my wife
To have a Giants nightie..but I only allow her birthday suit in bed…I would just have her hang it where we could look at it and get down to business….She’s a Dallas fan so if she had one of them, I’d tell her : " Do you want limp?..or a Full blown Chimp?"..If it is the banana then go hide the Dallas nightie or plan on watching “Extense” info-mercials..
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Sorry I meant "Extenze" or whatever that crap is..
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Yeah, I plead ignorance on that
crap as well, Bobbi (wink, wink)
LOL!!...
I plead she never reads what I wrote when she gets back from Australia…Hopefully this will get buried deep in the archive by then..haha
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
And...Ed..don't get any bright ideas about
keeping this up and out of the archive..There are too many baseball bats in this house ! I’d be in danger..
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
I tried to make it my ESPN avatar
but those bastards kept blocking it.
"Make sure you don't Dez Bryant me." -- Justin Tuck
I made the NYG logo my picture on LinkedIn
and they hated and took it down….
what’s the internet coming to?
yea
but what will you do if Andrews goes to the Pro Bowl?
by FreeBradshaw on Aug 20, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully Andrews will bring something to the table that others have not.
It makes me think maybe they aren’t sure Seubert has anything left in the tank. It makes me think they are hedging their bets against having to move David Diehl back outside if Will Beatty flops at left tackle. It makes me think maybe they aren’t sure Kareem McKenzie can hold up for another full season, and they aren’t sure how to replace him if he goes down.
Can’t fault the Giants for making such move. They have to do what is best for the team and if a player can’t hack it “See ya!”
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Aug 20, 2010 3:39 PM EDT reply actions
overreaction?
seems to me the worry bug is in full effect. We all know our line is in flux and a big question mark.
Fact is the guy is better than the sludge that Ed listed as backups. Therefore we got better.
Every team has a weakest unit, no matter how you draft. And this seems to me to be a move to help the line we got in case we start to break down when the season gets here.
LOTS of over reaction
The OL that was solid for the last few years is older but still reasonably good.
This is an indictment of Whimper – that’s all.
Low risk, possible high reward move.
But unless Snee is hurt the OL is no more cause for worry now that it was a few weeks ago. Beatty will start and Seubert will become that super-sub the Giants need. McKenzie will get nicked and miss a few games – that means Shawn plays a bit OR Diehl fills in at RT and Seubert plays – both OK scenarios.
Unless bad news on Snee comes out – quit worrying
What is there not to like about this move it gives the team superior line depth. Andrews doesn’t only become the most talented reserve lineman on the team he brings versatility. He can play RG and RT. If Snee were to be lost for any amount of time the Giants didn’t have a player capable of filling in. Andrews can do that, when McKenzie gets hurt he can play there too.
I also think that the Giants O-line for as good as its been isn’t the most physical group. They got a power back in Jacobs who needs guys who can open holes between the tackles. Andrews can do that as well hed probably suck at LG but they’d be moving those big DTs off the ball … If he really is just a reserve player on short yardarge I’d plug him in at TE and ram the ball down teams throats.
by TheBXRepresenta on Aug 20, 2010 5:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
love the move
I really could give a crap what the reason was why he left Philly. Maybe he got tired of sumo wrestling with Andy Reid?
Depth at the guard position, possibly the tackle position, which is exactly what they need. Low risk, cuz he can be dispatched at the first time he farts wrong.
And of course high reward, cuz if he’s healthy and motivated (big ‘ifs’ I guess) this guy is one of the best OL’s in the NFL If he plays, he brings some good fat to the OL too.
I didn't...
He tear it up?
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 20, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
good comparision (long way to go of course tho)
Buffalo’s OL sucks, lot similar to a lot of the OL’s Sanders dealt with.
by FreeBradshaw on Aug 20, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
seen that
CJ’s gonna be an animal. Instant offense, no one can tell me that he wouldn’t have been a great fit here.
by FreeBradshaw on Aug 20, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
In need of help.
This move shows our Giants Staff are on the ball. The way the Jets DL handle our OL in passing and running indicates our need for help.
Good Move GM.
As an aside,
JR has had success at least once with a pick similar to Andrews in many ways, namely
Plax. He got him cheap when no one else was willing to take a chance on him.
Wasn't Plax on the team
before 2007?
We need more toilet paper, I'm taking my talents to South Beach.
by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 20, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Right.
Can’t give JR credit for that, or at least not full credit. Similar situation still, although it didn’t quite work out all the way. I’ve got my fingers crossed on Andrews, on injury recoveries and on forestalling Father Time for a couple of guys on the OL.
Via Garafolo:
6 yrs / 32.5 Million
1.5 Million for this year.
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2010/08/details_of_shawn_andrews_contr.html
That is certainly not cheap..
Let us hope his “Check engine light” does not come on…
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
well, the way I see it....
he’s gotta flat out impress the heck outta the coaching staff b/c he stands to make a lot of money next year.
The good thing is that nothing is really guaranteed, aside for the signing bonus….so if he really is the same ‘ol Shawn than we cut him….but if he’s in the middle of the road, he also gets cut b/c he stands to make $3.5 – 7 Million (next year). At that $$$ one would think you gotta be a starter…and second, an above average one at that. So…..to me it looks like the Giants are giving him a pretty big “reward” if he wants it…it’s a big task and a looooooong shot, but who knows???
Wow. Amazing. They gave him $1.5 million… Just down the drain. Unreal to think that’s considered “cheap” and “low risk” in the NFL.
Why would they pay over the league minimum? NO ONE wanted this guy. He was passed on by every team he worked out for. He’s been useless and out of the game for years and he got $1.5 million? Great job by the agent here.
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it's 1.5 in an uncapped year....
they only guaranteed him a sign on bonus which i think was 250K
the fact is, they took a shot….a long shot.
yup
the GIants did absolutely no HW. They specifically signed him on what he was a while ago and have not a single clue on what’s happened to him and why he wasn’t playing last year.
…you scurred!
by FreeBradshaw on Aug 21, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
prob just want 1-2 years out of him
the contract is clearly to get his engine revving again…lets see what he can do…
he sucks, he’s gone, simple as that…
as far as everyone else on the line…I just see more competition and possibly good depth in this signing…
I’m sure we’ll be drafting 1-2 OLs next draft. Rounds 1-3 if this year’s crop runs into a little trouble and Petrus & Beatty don’t meet expectations, Rounds 3 and beyond if they are ok. Unless a really good OL is at our first 2 picks.
"Talent wins 9 games
Discipline wins 11 games
Leadership = World Champions"
-2010 Giants Philosophy
I'm not reading into it so much
We bagged T Cliff Louis for him. http://twitter.com/giantspathanlon/status/21660857775
"‘cause he’s worried about everything, and he tries to win all the time."
-- Francisco Cervelli on Alex Rodriguez
If Shawn Andrews doesn't work out, no one will remember it
But if it does work out to its potential, it will be the number one argument for JR in the debate of who was greater: George Young or Jerry Reese. Can you imagine if the combination of having had enough time to let his back heal, an older somewhat wiser outlook on life, different teammates that give him a clean slate, panic that he will be unemployed and poor, and the desire to not want to be remembered as a failure and headcase? A first round pick and three time pro-bowler 300 pounder who has good enough footwork to be a pulling guard?
Shawn, this is your chance to rewrite your whole life and your whole legacy. Jerry is giving you a chance to make it into the Hall of Fame. Drop all of that other stuff. Leave the toys of a child to the child that you were. The Giants are giving you a fresh start to rethink how you want to be remembered. Most people don’t get the chance to hit the reset button and do it right the second time. Give us your effort, we will give you our love. We are all pulling for you to become the man you can be. You have the chance to end this story with “Didn’t he have some problems for a couple of years?”
by Spider Lockhart on Aug 21, 2010 1:21 AM EDT reply actions
Ashley Fox from the Philly Inquirer summed it up nicely. You should read this piece.
The New York Giants must have been getting their Michael Phelps on early Friday morning when they decided to scratch Shawn Andrews a check. It’s the only explanation for why the Giants would agree to pay the former Eagles offensive guard anything north of $1 to take up space in their locker room. That, or they needed a singer. Or their trainers needed something to do. Or general manager Jerry Reese just felt like lighting money on fire.
I know you’ll all say we’re just homers and what not… but this guy is useless. I can’t believe anyone would buy into this fantasy that he’d magically come back from more than two years sitting in his apartment in California making youtube videos, bizarre ustream rants, and eating Caifornia Pizza Kitchen for breakfast, lunch, and dinner(that’s not a joke BTW) and become an even serviceable NFL player again. When has that ever happened? Ricky Williams maybe? Money does not motivate this person. He’s freely admitted that football has never been an important thing in his life. He’s said he was forced into football and won’t allow his son to play the game when he’s old enough. Even as late as college he would leave the field crying because he couldn’t bear to be there. I’m not joking about that either, you should all read this New York Times piece.
Perhaps most revealingly, Andrews said he believed that, to some extent, he was forced into football as a sixth grader because he was big, not because he particularly loved the sport. He said he had not watched a complete professional football game unless he was playing in it.
Go back google some old articles of him talking about how difficult fame is for him. You’d have to be as crazy as him to think that’s magically gone because the Giants signed him. Be careful if you are a doubter of his though, because he reads message boards and blogs and admits that it stresses him out. So he very well might be reading this.
And if the head stuff isn’t enough, how about the multiple back surgeries? I’m sure there’s a long list of NFL players who came back from that… He’s missed half of his career now. He’s played only 3 seasons since coming into the NFL in 2004. Two of those years were great, one was average at best. This nonsense you hear from him about how motivated he is now and how everything is better… We’ve heard it all before. We’ve heard it many times before. Doctors have said his back was totally healed more than once…
I don’t think Shawn Andrews is a bad guy. He’s just not a football player. Not then, not now.
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The fact that you guys over at BGN are so heated about this signing.
Really says it all.
"my vow of silence is over..... I’m sick of it….and I hate that dopey bastard"
- Highly revered BBV poster andiamo708 on his vow of silence regarding negative comments directed towards New York Giants Offensive Coordinator Kevin Gilbride after the first pre-season game of 2010.
by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 21, 2010 5:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Heated? What does it say?
Facts are facts. If you guys want to put on the homer blinders and ignore what a total mess this person is… be my guest. Just don’t say we didn’t warn ya.
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Injuries, Injuries
bad luck is one thing but this is a massive trend over the last three years. Guys really showing up to camp in bad shape? Bad medical staff? – doubt it.
Not sure where to put the blame but it’s something the staff is doing wrong or not doing
Please get Phil Simms in the Hall of Fame
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