Giants By The Numbers: 85 Is For ...
by Ed Valentine on Jul 20, 2010 7:19 AM EDT
in New York Giants By The Numbers
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PrintHow can it not be? The greatest single play in New York Giants' history, quite possibly in Super Bowl history. How can I give this award to Del Shofner, who was a far superior player statistically? Can't do it.
Tyree is the most important, memorable 85 in New York Giants' history. Thank you, David, for a memory that will last a lifetime.
I really don't care about the fact that Tyree made only 54 regular-season catches in six seasons. I really don't care that he was, for the most part, known only as a special-teams standout.
I care about the Helmet Catch. I care about the play that ultimately doomed the unbeaten New England Patriots in Super Bowl 42. Make a play like that, the number gets reserved for you when posts like this are written.
Apologies to Shofner, a five-time Pro Bowler and five-time All-Pro, three of those while with the Giants from 1961-67. You were the best player to ever wear this number for the Giants, with 239 receptions and more than 4,000 receiving yards.
Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for us Giants' fans, you are not the most important Giant to ever wear the number. That honor goes to Tyree.
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Agreed!
Definitely agree with the whole article here. Tyree will always be the man amongst us Giants fans. I still hear from Steelers fans here in Pittsburgh that the Santonio Holmes TD catch in Super Bowl 43 was better. Silly Steeler fans…lol.
Also can’t forget Stephen “The Touchdown Maker” Baker here! How can you not love a receiver that was 5’8" and 160 pounds lol.
Baker
True. Probably should have at least mentioned him.
by Ed Valentine on Jul 20, 2010 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions
TD Catch too
Don’t forget that there was a planed play in Super Bowl for Tyree that he caught a touchdown on. Eli’s comments afterwards of “We knew that if David was in there, they’d bite harder on the Playfake and he’d be open in the middle”. David’s Blocking skills tricked the Patriots on that play (Dare I say nice call Kevin Gilbride??)
As I mentioned in the Jeff Feagles posts, I loved watching Feagles to Tyree punts. Tyree must have caught more punts on the fly inside the 5 than he did important Eli Manning throws.
When it comes to my love of all aspects of football, especially special teams, Tyree is my Hero. And that is all before The Catch!
I can't believe it
I saw it when it happened, saw it again on tapes and now. Still cannot understand how he did it without industrial velcro. Must have super strong arms to be able to hold on to that ball. Also have to give Manning credit for escaping clutches of defense. Most incredible play ever. Shofner was great, saw him, another old time pro the memories of this catch are the single greatest of giant history in my mind.
by UnknownJintsFan on Jul 20, 2010 7:39 AM EDT reply actions
Tyree is The Catch to me.
SB XLII was the 2nd Giants game I watched – the 1st was the NFC Championship against the Packers (what a start btw).
Let’s watch it again.
Hmmm
I suppose for a post like this, giving credit to what I would agree is at least the single greatest play I personally have ever seen is completely called for. I also think it’s worth mentioning that his best contributions came on special teams. I just wouldn’t go retiring his number. With exception to one catch, I consider Tyree to be a bit of a dissapointment. It’s also worth noting that he was only half of that play. It’s like people forget the insanity that took place when Eli miraculously emerged from that cloud of smoke like Bugs Bunny in a wrestling match. I also find Tyree to be an incredibly annoying person.
Ok that’s all for me, I’d like to thank God for allowing me to write this blog comment.
FreeCC!
by pataroons on Jul 20, 2010 7:43 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Tyree
Based on his contribution at that point of the game, give him the nod. What is annoying about Tyree, have you met him? I find this Free CC to be annoying!
"I felt completely out of whack... Once again, I didn’t give our team a chance out of the gate."..
I am Allan James Burnett, and I approve this message.
by Great Gatsby on Jul 20, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
didn't mean to hurt your feelings
First off, I agree with this ‘nod’, as stated (and that’s coming from a huge Shofner fan).I have not met Tyree but of course there has been plenty of media exposure for me to form my own opinion. Its just that- an opinion.
I can assure you
didn’t hurt my feelings, just stating my thoughts. Don’t believe everything you read.
"I felt completely out of whack... Once again, I didn’t give our team a chance out of the gate."..
I am Allan James Burnett, and I approve this message.
by Great Gatsby on Jul 20, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
We are talking about 85 not 10.
Eli got his credit, now give david his.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Jul 20, 2010 11:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Tyree is famous because of the catch thrown by Eli on the left side of the field. If the ball would have gone in the right side it was a TD.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Who Was On The Right Side?
I just looked at the video clip on the top of the page again, and at the distance that Manning threw the ball, the right side of the field seems empty of players. I have a DVD of the TV broadcast and will check that to see if they show more, or hopefully the whole field.
Manning didn’t exactly get the chance to set up before he threw, and he wasn’t that accurate. I always thought that if Tyree wasn’t the target it must have been someone further down the field behind him. If that was the case, and Tyree didn’t put his hands up into the flight path, it was probably interception and game over.
I will look at the end of the game again and I did see some blue jersey on the right side. Not too deep but was there and it did into look like it was going to be that hard to run by defender.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
tyree
was a class act. He cleaned up his troubled past, become close with his religion of choice and dedicated himself 110% to the giants.. never made stupid comments.. always outshined on special teams.
He did underperm, if you expected a #1-2 WR.. but role players make plays when they are needed… and he did that pretty good.
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
Good point
He was just a role player, 6th rounder, so I’ll give him that.
As a man of faith, I don’t appreciate him suggesting that God had a hand in that Super Bowl victory. I would consider that to be a stupid comment, as the God I follow doesn’t watch sports. These are just my opinions based on my faith, and I am aware that I may be taking these out of context. I haven’t read his book, so I haven’t gotten a good explanation about those comments.
Another stupid thing he did, Giants related, is that he was late for a team meeting and fined $10,000 by Fassel. After apologizing, and thanking Fassel for “a lesson in maturity”, he sold weed out of his car in order to recoup the $$.
Now we all know about his history with booze, drugs, women, jail, etc. and I am willing to look past all of that. I am only pointing these two examples out because I feel they are Giants related and as a Giants fan I am entitled to form an opinion based on these facts.
Why not , Giants Are God's Favorite Team
Lol Iam messing with you now.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
God's Favorite Team?
I hope not.
If they are, it’s only because God wants some poor Giants fan to re-write the book of Job to tell how we have suffered.
If God is omniscient
doesn’t that by definition means he IS all sports?
We need more toilet paper, I'm taking my talents to South Beach.
by bigbluethruandthru on Jul 20, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Gutsy call, Ed,
particularly since a good argument can be made that Shof was the best WR the Giants ever had. The distinction you make between best and most important carries weight even if it smacks of altering the unwritten “rules” a bit more than heretofore.
No complaints here. It’s your game, your rules. It does occur to me that, even rejecting more important considerations, the same approach used retroactively could be extended to a few others, most obviously, Steve Owen.
And Eddie Price (#31)
But, as you said, it’s Ed’s game and it’s Ed’s rules.
No doubt, though, that Shofner is the the best #85 for the Giants – ever.
And, no doubt that the helmut catch is the greatest in Giant history, period.
You know your numbers, Grange
Eddie deserves a shout out, much more so than Baker.
Eddie Price
You guys need to tell me more about him. Not a name I really know at all.
by Ed Valentine on Jul 20, 2010 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Eddie Price
He played for us 1950 to 1955. He played 63 games.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PricEd00.htm
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Price wore Jersey number 31
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Price wore Jersey number 31
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Pro-Football Refence
I’m not going to try and repeat what the above site says, but, Price was All-Pro, first team, twice, a Pro Bowler one other time. He led the league in rushing one time and he led the league in attempts twice. In those 63 games over 6 years he gained nearly 3300 yards and caught 75 passes. By gaining over 700 yards three times in 12 game seasons, he actually in today’s 16 game world would have 1000 yards three times.
Almost everyone who posts on your site went with Jason Sehorn, who was a fun player, but for #31, as I stated when you were doing that number, there can only be Eddie Price.
Sehorn would get honorable mention.
Agreed, George
Yes, I probably altered the rules a little bit here. I just felt it was impossible not to honor the greatest play in franchise history. Shofner, no doubt, had the best career of any player to wear 85. And Stephen Baker was a better player than Tyree.
I just felt like this was the right thing to do, though your point is well taken. When I put this all in book form perhaps I will approach this number a little differently.
by Ed Valentine on Jul 20, 2010 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Shofner VS Tyree
I knew Stephen baker had no chance over Shofner but Shofner loses to Tyree? Well, that play was just incredible but why do folks forget that without Eli avoiding that sack this play would not have occured.
Here we are discussing the best players ever in NYG history to have ever worn a particular jersey number. It is in reference to a whole career with the team and not just one game or even one play. Baker’s play in superbowl that he played in was good too and helped maintain a drive.
I would have picked Shofner or both shofner and Tyree for that matter. But then there is Baker too. So how about make it a tie and give the honor to Shofner and Tyree.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
I'm actually stunned
That I’m being criticized for honoring the greatest play in Giants’ history. To be honest, I did not think twice about this one. Maybe that’s a little bit of ‘my house, my post, my rules’ but for me this one is Tyree. Can one play override a career? When it is the greatest play in franchise history, and it is the play that sets up a Super Bowl victory the answer is yes — for me.
by Ed Valentine on Jul 20, 2010 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions
And not just a Superbowl victory...
but a Superbowl victory against “the greatest team ever” – at least that’s what I’m sure they would be labelled by now if it wasn’t for that Tyree catch…
Being from the UK and being of the younger generation I can’t comment on the older guys but do find it hard to believe that people can’t support Tyree at this number. That play gives me goosebumps everytime I watch it and that’s what greatness surely is?
Great play
Yes Jonah that was a great play and we all love that play. Then there are Giants fans who can make the case that Shofner was the best receiver we ever had.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
it is a tough decision...
I understand that Shofner was a great, great Giant. But the Giants didn’t win the big one with him. They won the big one BECAUSE of Tyree’s contributions in the big one. Not saying that Tyree was equally as talented (that would be pretty darn absurd) but when it mattered most, Tyree made the Giants winners. I think that should mean enough to all of us.
In Reese We Trust
Ed
Ed we love you and not criticizing you personally. You are an asset to us Giants fans. Maybe some of us were expecting a post about greatest players and not the greatest plays. The greatest plays in Giants history could be a whole different article while this series is about greatest players. As for the importance of Tyree play, Baker’s play was equally important and good. That play led to superbowl winning score too and he wore the same jersey number.
Tyree pick is fine but I would have loved to see as Shofner the co-honor of this jersey number.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
I am with you Ed.
That catch made it possible for Giant fans to walk taller amongst fellow NFLers. The Giant emblem move up several notches in terms of the respect that it carries from fans of other teams. David did something that can’t be ignored or foegotten and no amount of elite statistics can over shadow. If any one says otherwise they are just hating. Bottom line.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Jul 20, 2010 11:44 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, you didn't say Tyree was the best,
so, as I already said, I have no complaint. You did change your rules, but you’ve done that before (to a far lesser extent.) As far as I’m concerened YOU can change YOUR rules. They’re your rules after all. When you write your book, look at Steve Owen again. Did any Giant have a greater impact on how the game is played? considering that, can any Giant Be considered as important, yet alone more important?
The rules are
whatever I say goes. LOL!! Actually, it’s a bit refreshing to see some of the regulars — and especially the old-timers — disagree with me. That doesn’t happen often.
by Ed Valentine on Jul 20, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
We can make it happen more often
if you want! LOL!
Most of your choices have been beyond question. Usually we have disagreed with you only when there was someone before your time that we feel you might have overlooked or undervalued, like Len Younce or Willie Young. This is different; you are comparing a play (Tyree’s catch) with a player (Shofner) and ruling in favor of the play. Sort of like saying that Bucky Dent’s home run against the Red Sox in the playoff game gives him priority over Phil Rizzuto.
Mickey C
Perfect!
I was trying to find a comparable sports scenario to illustrate the absurdity of Tyree over Shofner.
One is on a list of great plays / dramatic moments, the other is on this list of best Giant players to have worn each number. The lists should not be mixed up.
Bucky Dent's homer means:
No Yankee fan will ever forget him.
No baseball fan either.
No sports fan ever.
He’ll never be forgotten, not for one hundred years
A thousand
Never, he’l never be forgotten, not even in the dim, distant future when archeologists discover traces/clues of a strange game played back in the twentieth century, so similar to the skullball game played by the ancient Mayans (when men were were real men) Yes. the game will be forgotten, but not the mysterious name Bucky Dent who at last we know earned his demi-god status by performing some heroic feat in this strange sport called by the natives, as can best be determinerd, pibagl.
If you had watched Shofner play like we did you would think differently. He was a game breaker many times over.
by giant fan since 57 on Jul 20, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, he'd make the team right now
The only Giant who compares to him in terms of stretching the field is Homer Jones. Both Nicks and Manny have the potential to be as good or better, but they’re not there yet.
At least a mention...
I completely agree with Tyree as the pick for #85. I still get goosebumps watching that play. We would not have won the SB without that catch and I am tired of hearing that Plax caught the game winning TD. The dude was wide open, I sure hope he would make that catch. Tyree on the other hand was simply amazing. Don’t forget, those discussing Shof, Tyree was a heck of a ST player, going to at least one Pro Bowl for that reason.
I am surprised Ed that you did not at least throw Stephen Baker “The Touchdown Maker” into the alernates.
The entire team won that game.
David just made the most memorable catch in sports history. Dosen’t mater who caught the game winning catch if it had not een for the efforts of all of those involved in that drive history would not have been so kind to us Giants fans.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Jul 20, 2010 11:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Rookies
Oh, and what about the contributions from rookies in that drive. Bradshaw, Boss and Steve Smith. Who did I miss among rookies in that drive?
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
On that drive...I think that covers it.
Jay Alford was another rookie that got a huge sack late in the game though.
And was Zack DeOssi a rookie that year? If so he made a great special teams play to pin New England back deep in their territory on the kickoff following Plaxs TD.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
No one wanted to be responsible for losing that game.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Jul 20, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Teamwork
It was one of the greatest team efforts for sure. It took every single one of them to give more than 100% of themselves to each other and the game. The patriots thought we will just roll over and hand them the trophy. Did you see how disciplined our players were even when they made mistakes?
Great preparation by the coaches as well as the players. You could see it in the eyes of the players when they came to the field. Our guys were there excited and having fun while the Patriots looked very serious and somewhat concerned. When I saw how each team entered the field I knew we had won the game already. Yeah but still was a nail biter lol.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
I have never...
…Screamed so loud at 3 oclock in the morning. Best game ever, even after the rollercoaster NFC champ game 2 weeks before.
remember the play, the smile comes, followed by the goosebumps and then a sly tilt of the head and a feeling of emmense satisfaction and accomplishemnt. Then a little chuckle as you remember the face of all those patriot fans as they realised it was going to be 18 and 1.
LOL @ 18-1
That superbowl was played in the metro area where I live. The Giants were staying at a resort about 50 miles from my house while the Patriots stayed at a resort hotel just over 5 miles from my house. The Patriot fans were all over town with 19-0 shirts.
There was this guy who used to stand outside the Patriots hotel wearing Giants colors holding a poster board with 18-1 on it. The hotel security told the guy he could not stand on that spot. So he moved to another spot they would move him fro there he would go across the street still holding the 18-1 sign. On the days he could do it he did it for some hours daily. Oh, I remember now. That guy was me. LOL. I had decided that instead of going to the Giants hotel I will go to the Patriots hotel daily.
Funny thing is that on the superbowl day I had to work my store and many Patriots fans were coming and buying poster boards from me (from the motel next door). Most of them wrote 19-0 with magic markers they bought from me on poster board I sold them. I was wearing my Giants colors and I found all of them to be very respectful and friendly and some of them even said that after that last game of the season the Giants were the only team they did not want to face in the superbowl.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Last Sentence
I love your last sentence, that some Patriots fans said, “that after that last game of the season the Giants were the only team they did not want to face in the superbowl.”
I read that just after “that last game of the season” Bill Belichek was quoted as saying, “These guys are good.”
"Oh, I remember now. That guy was me. LOL."
That cracked me up. Thank you.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
Tyree catch
I love that play like the rest of the Giants fans and it is my favorite football play and I have it on my laptop and play it few times a week. Every time I see the Tyree catch I see him catching the ball with both hands and then later when he is falling towards the ground is when he brings the ball to the helmet to secure it more since his other hand is away now. I see a lot of hype by some people about the play as if he caught the ball with one hand with the help of his helmet. I have even heard some commentators say he caught the ball with one hand to his helmet. I have played that play hundreds of times and I see the catch made with both hands then the helmet is used later. Even on the picture towards the top of this article it is clear that ball has both his hands on it as well as the helmet. Actually he caught the ball above his helmet not on his helmet. It is still heck of a play and we Giants fans will cherish it forever. Giants history is incomplete without that play. But I am an equal fan of the Eli escape as well as the Tyree catch on that play. It was a great play but it was a two part great play.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Should be Shofner
I am sorry to have to say this, but until now you have been very fair with your selections Ed. you have thrown out emotional attachment, and made choices that a younger generation may not know, but would respect (given the stats and such). In this case though, you plain and simple went the wrong way.
Don’t get me wrong, this play will be my signature play to remember as a Giants fan, but one part skill/part amazing/part luck play (yes, there was a definitely noticeable degree of luck on that play) should not erase a player who is likely the best WR the Giants have ever had.
Emotions
Yes, this IS the one case where I allowed emotions to enter into my choice. I’m not ever going to say Tyree was a better player than Shofner — he wasn’t. As I’ve said, perhaps I will frame this number differently when I convert all of this material into book form.
I’ve been a little surprised by the amount of support for Shofner here, but that is informative and another reason to enjoy the community we have here.
For a change it is you guys making me look at the big picture rather than the other way around. That’s cool.
by Ed Valentine on Jul 20, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
More series
Ed, after the Giants By The Numbers series is over how about you help us out with some of these series:
— Best player in a position such as best WR etc.
— Top 20 plays in Giants history.
— Worst players we have had in different positions. It is opposite of the first one above and we can leave it to you whether you want to do this one of course. I am curious to know if there were worse QBs than Dave Brown and/or who was the worst WR etc.
— Our top 10 or 20 number one draft picks.
— Our worst 10 numbber one picks
etc etc.
I will post more ideas as I get them.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Agree, Should be Shofner
Tyree is an emotional choice of the heart because of just one play. It is not a choice made after a thoughtful and objective consideration of each players entire career and how important they were to the team, as all of the other choices have been. Emotional reasons were given in many of those choices, but they were used as “tie-breakers” or “reinforcements” when the selection was close, on a level playing field. No matter how memorable the one play was, it should not tilt the field.
David Tyree should be named at the top of the list of greatest Giant plays ever, followed by plays made by Jason Sehorn, Jim Burt, Mark Ingram, Mark Bavaro, Lawrence Taylor and others. It would probably be much better as a list with videos clips, since words can’t fully describe what happened during each play.
What we have been following is a listing of the best Giant players ever to wear each uniform number, and Del Shofner deserves #85 more than any other Giant.
Apologies to the older genertaion...
But who the hell is Del Shofner? Honestly, I don’t really care.
EVERYONE knows Tyree. And everyone WILL ALWAYS know Tyree.
Just like Dwight Clark for the Niners, Tyree will never ever be forgotten. He and Eli’s amazing play will be shown for the remainder of NFL history.
Absolutely the right call Ed.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 8:47 AM EDT reply actions
Tito,
You have to realize that Giants were established in 1925 and had won the championship in their 3rd year. Then over decades we have had some great teams, players and as as plays. Shofner played for us from 1961 to 1967. Yes we were a terrible team during those years but Shofner was one of the few right spots we had.He was very reliable and was the most gutsy receiver we have ever had.
Like you I did not get to see a lot of those old players but I have studied my Giants and watched a lot of footages of games. Tyree play was great and we all love it but we don’t want to dishonor our other great players too. It is possible that some day even a better play than Tyree could be made and then some young guy from that era may ask who the hell was Tyree? How will you feel then?
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
I would say dude, turn on the NFL Network.
Because I’m only 22 and I know who Dwight Clark is, I know who Franco Harris is, I know who Jim Marshall is, and who Ernest Byner and Joe Namath are…and it has nothing to do with how great their careers were or weren’t, and everything to do with the fact that on one day, they did something great (or in Byner and Marshalls case terrible) that will live on in football lore until there isn’t football. Which is exactly the case with Tyree. He carved his name alongside Eli into NFL history for the rest of time.
Besides that, I honestly think these old dogs are getting a lot more credit than they deserve. How is anyone calling Shofner the greatest reciever in Giants history? He had over 4,315 yards for his CAREER…NINE other players have more than that.
Quite honestly, I’m still kind of upset Toomer didn’t get 81…he leads the Giants in EVERY CATEGORY as far as receiveing is concerned. So what if he didn’t get a Pro Bowl, he helped the Giants get to two Super Bowls in a league that is far more competitive, with far more talent than anyone could have thought existed back when they were still perfecting the “art of the forward pass”.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
He had over 4,315 yards*
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Understand
We understand where you are coming from Tito. There are many players who have been mentioned and honored who were before many of us even watched the games. Our team has a great rich history which gooes back to 85 years.
Those old dogs you mentioned played both sides of the ball, that is they played offense and defense and then even came to play the special teams. Many of them played the entire game. They wore leather helmets and had much less protection. They played outdoors and braved the weather. They have left some great games in football history books. Some of the stats do not look a whole lot since they did not play 16 games those days. It used to be 12 games or 14 games seasons. Some seasons were less than 12 games. So stats were low.
We cannot not ignore players from previous generations. They were our players too and it WAS our GIANTS team. Good thing about Tyree is that people like him always rise to the occasion and add to our Giants lore. We cannot not write Giants history without mentioning Tyree play or the Baker play both of whom made incredible plays and those plays led to the winning score(s) in their respective superbowls they played in.
Actually, it is easier to dig up info on our old Giants teams and players nowadays then it was for me. I learned about Giants from library books in the 1980s. There was no ESPN etc or there was no internet. The pcs did not have modems those days.
You can read about how i learned about the Giants and a fan of the team on my comment towards the end of this page:
http://www.bigblueview.com/2010/7/6/1554051/fan-essays-its-time-to-hear-your
Tito, I am happy to see your generation as emotionally involved with our team as we all are. You will be there rooting for the team and remember the players you watched over the decades when we are gone.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Read it BB
Great story.
I hope to hear more from you when we create some history of our own this upcoming season.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Ty
Thanks young man. Welcome to Giants lore. I will be here and looking forward to your input on these posts too.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
I think both of you guys are right.
this credit deserved problem has more to do with the league’s selective exposure of great acheivements by players then the fan’s selective perception. It is a problem that i don’t think will be fixed. It ashame though because the contributions of many great players are suffering from this surpression.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Jul 20, 2010 12:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Tito, when you look at stats going
back to when Shofner played you have to take into account that the season was only twelve games and ther wereno playoffs (except in the event of a tie in one of only two divisions.) Far less chance to roll up total yardage figures than today.
Despite playing far fewer games, guys like YA and Jim Brown set total yardage/TD figures that lasted for decades after longer schedules and playoffs were introduced. Fewer teams and smaller rosters meant that marginal guys who (mutatis mutandis) could have never played then can find a roster spot now. And no, I’m not saying the players then were better players now, although I have no doubt that, by and large, the elite guys then would be elite guys now.
I understand it was a different game.
But since you bring up the point:
And no, I’m not saying the players then were better players now, although I have no doubt that, by and large, the elite guys then would be elite guys now.
How would the elites of today fair in the league you just described?
What of the more finess players like a DeSean Jackson, would he even have a roster spot?
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
The elites of today would be competitive with the elites of yesterday.
Yes, I believe DeSean would havwe a shot. Buddy Young exceeled as an RB, PR and receiver. He was 5’6" and weighed about 180. He played two ways when he entered the league. I saw him stop Marion Motley, an HOF running back with great size 245-250) and speed, with great size. Gino Marchetti said he was one of the toughest guys to bring down because he bounced off tacklers. He was one of the fastest men in the league. It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, but…, etc.
Toomer
is not a Hall of Famer. Andy Robustelli is, and he was also named All Pro six times. Toomer was never named to a Pro Bowl. Giants fans loved him, but he did not carry that reputation around the league. Robustelli is one of the best DEs to ever play, and Michael Strahan is the only DE in team history in the conversation with him.
by Ed Valentine on Jul 20, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I know Ed
And I guess since most the elders were in agreement, I can’t argue that you made the right call, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be upset about it…
Think about it from my point of view, I watched this guy be nothing but a team player, solid competitor, excellent locker room presence, and cosistent playmaker ever since I can remember…he spent his entire career with the G-Men, and I was fortunate enough to see it from beginning to end. He not only broke every meangingful Giants receiving record, but demolished them.
I know all this and I come to this site like I do every day because I have great interest and respect for the opinions of everyone who contributues here, only to find out that it’s a “no-brainer” that he doesn’t get to be considered the greatest Giant to wear 81.
Not only does this shock me a bit, but it makes me a little envious that he could be cast aside for someone that I never even heard of.
This is what’s great about the Giants though, and after reading BB1156’s post that he just shared I definitely respect it that much more. We have been a great franchise for a VERY long time, and we will continue to be a great franchise for a VERY long time. It must have been great to have been able to see every generation of players thus far, and I can’t wait to see what the future brings.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Superb, absolutely superb.
I couldn’t have articulated it any better. I believe that a lot of Toomer fans agree with you 100%. I know I do.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Jul 20, 2010 12:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No doubt Lo
You were the first to make a mention of Toomer in the “81” post, and I was there to agree with you.
Really what I’ve learned most from these ‘Giants by the Numbers’ is how rich this history truly is. We have arguments going across entire generations here for multiple numbers, how many fan bases would be that passionate that far back into history?
The Cowboys, for example, don’t even have a history dating back before the 60s. Really does make this fan base special.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Your not alone Tito
Really what I’ve learned most from these ‘Giants by the Numbers’ is how rich this history truly is. We have arguments going across entire generations here for multiple numbers, how many fan bases would be that passionate that far back into history?
As your slightly younger than i am, i’ll be 39 shortly, and this numbers series bring’s out a lot of players from different era’s. Players i’ve never heard of or seen. I think that’s what makes it more difficult to persuade someone with only statistical data. We can only rely on stories with mutal backings.
I think it’s great that we have in-house historians. They bring out something that may never had been seen, heard or searched for ever. With saying that, the more we distance ourselves from the past, the more likely it may be forgotten!
"..every generation of players thus far...,)
Can’t be many guys that old.
Anyway, I understand where you’re coming from. Unless you’re steeped in Giants’ history, a guy your age is likely to be shocked by what looks like Toomer’s being dissed. On the other hand, to guys like me, trying to compare a guy who in the final analysis was a rather ordinary player (not even one Pro Bowl, yert alone All Pro) despite an accumulation of stats over time, comparing a guy like that to a Giants’ legend and HOF is just as, (or perhaps even more )shocking.
Exactly where the genertaion gap is clearly present.
Toomer to someone of your genertaion – A rather ordinary player.
Toomer to someone of my generation – GOAT.
And it’s only because of the simple fact that I’ve never seen anyone do it more consistently, or with more class than “well dressed” Armani Toomer.
20 years from now, who knows where I’ll see Toom. Hopefully behind Smith, Nicks, and Ham…
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
GOAT?
What does GOAT mean?
I can’t figure out the acronym, but although it looks bad, the way you use it, it must be very good.
The normal usage, in lower case, would be the “goat” that Bill Buckner of the Boston Red Sox was in 1986.
GOAT
I believe was first used (in this light) to describe Ali if I’m not mistaken…
Greatest of all time.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
BUT.........
you have to understand this sport has been played much longer than your 22 year and longer than my 50 years. The NFL wasn’t created in 1988. You weren’t even born with the Giants won their first Super Bowl. I mean no offense. Only trying to make a point.
With more than a few of the numbers I’ve argued for the older guy. It’s too easy to give to a more recent player. Our memories are short. The game, especially when it comes to offensive numbers, has drastically changed. Look at the QB ratings from the 60s and earlier. They pale in comparison to today’s QB ratings. Does that mean those QBs weren’t as good as the QB in today’s game?
LIke many Giants fan I liked Toomer. He made some incredible catches and some big big plays. At the same time he had the tendency to drop the easy ball.
Best Every Ten Years
To keep everyone happy why not just give the best Giant to wear each number in each decade? You’d have from 2010 back to 2001 ( still to be determined ), then from 2000 to 1991, then 1990 to 1981, and so on. We might even divide 1990-1981 into two unequal parts so we wouldn’t have to chose between most of the players from two Super Bowl winning teams.
No player from the 50’s would have to compete against anyone from any other decade, and all of the good players from the teams in the wilderness years of the 70’s would finally get the recognition they deserve.
That would keep us going for a long time, and many of us wouldn’t have to bother thinking about players they didn’t know anything about.
3 Eastern Championships ...
Tittle, Shofner & co were in 3 NFL championships in 61, 62 and 63. Granted, the rest of the decade was terrible …
BB "...a terrible team...?
The Giants got YA and Shof in ’61. Thanks to them we morphed into the best O in the NFL and went to the championship game from 61-63
Not Me
If you are referring to me then I do not remember posting that. I think it was someone else.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Correction
blue gonz, you were correct in reprimanding me. I finally have been ale to read the whole page (up to now.. lol) and yes I did write those words. My bad.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
I'm getting goose bumps just reading about the play.
I love the NFL Network commercial where they show Strahan pumping up the O-line on the sidelines before the drive, then they show the catch. My wife tells the kids to shush whenever it comes on, just awesome.
By the way, can someone please come up with a consensus designation for the name of the play? These are all great, “The Flee to Tyree,” “The Glendale Grab,” “Hail Manning,” “The Miracle in the Desert,” “The Great Escape,” “The Play,” “The Helmet Catch,” or one of my personal favorites from NFL Films “The Double Miracle.” Any thoughts on coming up with a definative name for this play?
Charlie: I'll just regress, because I feel I've made myself perfectly redundant.
There was also "Catch 42"
And my personal favorite “David and Elioth”
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 9:21 AM EDT reply actions
The moment I fell in love with the game
I started to actually watch football every Sunday in the 2007 season and living in New York, the Giants were always on. I had always said I was a Giants fan before then, I was 14, but this was the first year I seriously dedicated myself to watching them. The rollercoaster season starting 0-2, and then the Packers regular season game showed me what football was about: players like Eli and the rest of our Giants leaving it all on the turf. In the NFC Championship Game in Lambeau, I fell in love with the team. After Tynes kicked the ball in overtime, it seemed like it was spinning in the air for an eternity. My heart dropped as it looked like it was going to go wide left. This season of dedication couldn’t have possibly ended seeing Tom Coughlin occupying Andy Reid’s reserved spot on the Pro Bowl sideline. Then, just like the entire Giants season, the ball curved back and just barely squeezed in between the goal posts. At that moment, i can say I fell in love with the Giants. Only two weeks later I saw this play and watching Eli get away from the multiple sacks and Strahan gluing Brady to the floor. This play, and this whole drive really, made me into the football fan I am now. I am now a fan of the game, and a student of the game. I fell in love with Steve Smith on this drive, I never doubted his ability, and was repaid for my faith in him this past season. This play represents everything that this sport is about. The dedication of the Patriots’ defensive line in getting multiple men on Eli, and Eli’s even stronger persistence in escaping the clutches of defeat. His constant focus in knowing where Tyree was as soon as he got half a second to breathe, and then Tyree’s strength in holding on to the ball. Harrison’s desire to break up the play up until the last second. The immense joy that came with being a Giants fan at this very moment, and the even greater sense of urgency that all Patriots fans felt in the idea that this perfect season was all for naught.
You made the right choice Ed, you might have opted against picking one of the best Giants recievers ever, but you did so to honor a play that represents the sport, a play that is the most impressive of all time, and a play that means much more to Giants fans than Shofner.
Welcome Jerry.
Good post.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
indeed.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Jul 20, 2010 12:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
LOL!!
Where’s ‘SBakertheTouchdownMaker’? I’m ducking under my desk to avoid the projectiles!
by Ed Valentine on Jul 20, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
No need to duck, Ed.
In my formative years, Shofner was the king of the 5-yard square-out pattern, and that was something a little kid could comprehend, allowing me to become a fan more easily.
The Tyree catch, however, still stands as the greatest play in Super Bowl history (although half of that play is all Eli), so I guess I begrudgingly agree that Tyree as # 85 will likely be most revered and remembered today, and 50 years from now.
Maybe
for some numbers with a controversy over a modern day player and an “old dog” there can be 2 choices for a number. One for the pre Super Bowl era and one for the Super Bowl era. The game of football really was a lot different in the early days and in some cases it cannot be compared to the game now a days. We really can’t compare a player from the 60’s who was a steady workhorse for a few years to a player that didn’t put up the steady numbers but will always be remember for being part of the greatest play in Super Bowl history. I don’t think anyone is taking away what either of these two players did for the franchise. I am part of the younger generation so my choice is Tyree (also because I watched him play at Syracuse for 4 years)
Best For Every Ten Years?
To keep everyone happy why not just give the best Giant to ever wear each number in each decade? You’d have from 2010 back to 2001 ( still to be determined ), then from 2000 to 1991, then 1990 to 1981, and so on. We might even divide 1990-1981 into two unequal parts so we wouldn’t have to chose between most of the players from two Super Bowl winning teams.
No player from the 50’s would ever have to compete against anyone from any other decade, and all of the good players from the teams in the wilderness years of the 70’s would finally get the recognition they deserve.
That would keep us going for a long time, and many of us wouldn’t have to bother thinking about all of the players that they didn’t know anything about.
Mixed Emotions
Ed, I understand your choice. I can’t say I disagree.
At the same time with many numbers we/you used certain criteria. HOF, Pro Bowls, longevity etc. There’s no doubt Shofner deserves the number but 10, 20 years from now we’ll still see the Tyree catch.
Tyree was involved in the greatest play in franchise history...
but he was wearing Shofner’s number when he made it.
perfect
You summed it up perfectly.
Shofner was the best #85- ever.
(Did you know that the number he wore in college and with the Rams had to be changed when he went to the Giants? It had been #29- Webster’s number.)
(And did you also hear the rumor back then that Shofner was drafted by the Rams in 1957 with the pick they got from the Giants for Robustelli?) Seems incredibly ironic.
Classic
This my friend is classic : (And did you also hear the rumor back then that Shofner was drafted by the Rams in 1957 with the pick they got from the Giants for Robustelli?) Seems incredibly ironic.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Looked it up
It is true. I looked it up. The Rams drafted Jon Arnett, no slouch himself, as their normal #1, and then Shofner at the end, as the one from the Giants, so the Rams had two #1 picks in that draft.
By the way, they held that draft in November, 1956- before the championship game.
Odd, eh?
David Patten
Was his era’s Tyree or Dominik Hixon, in terms of being a fourth wideout. Had a good run as one of Tom Brady’s gang of nobodies as a receiver in New England.
Yes Patten and some more
Yes Patten was ok ut not great for us. Some of the other players I found who wore #85 are:
Don Herrmann, Bob Schnelker, John Andrew Mistler, Don Hasselbeck ( didnt his son play for us as as a backup QB just a few years ago or am I mis-spelling here), Jonathan Carter, Alfred Pupunu, Keith Crawford nd Derek Dorris. Many of these guys played only one season and none of them made any significant contribution. I am sure there were very many people who wore that number and we cant list those here. I thought I would mention these names that I found. I promise I will not post series of numbers on every post. lol.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
IT SHOULD BE NOTED
That Tyree did make a Pro Bowl!
Not just a one play wonder were talking about here guys…always an excellent contributor on special teams.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 11:25 AM EDT reply actions
Yes
He made the Pro Bowl for his special teams play. He was a valuable all-around Giant for a few years, not just for that one catch and one TD in SB 42.
Yes
Yes Tyree did make probowl.
This is how I see all this now: If it would not have been for Shofner , Baker would have owned #85 and if it would not have been for Shofner or Baker it would have been Tyree. Just like without Robustelli #81 was for Toomer for sure. I am glad that we retired some jersey numbers we did otherwise it would have been hell to figure out some of those numbers. As for the retired numbers I agree with all of them except for one. One of those numbers was probably retired emotionally.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
On that subject...
With this last decades crop of players I see only see one jersey number being retired without a doubt, and one well on there way…
#92, without a doubt, will be retired.
And I’m always the first to argue, that without injury, Eli will go down as the greatest QB in Giants history. I have a feeling he will be the last GIant to wear #10.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Time will tell
We will know later what happens. I do see them holding off #10 for a while at least.
I was hoping that they would retire 21 for Tiki but he goofed it up with his behavior in his last season and after his retirement.
Yeah jersey # 92 is headed to retirement. The only thing to hold it back would be the concern of not to run out of the numbers in that series for that position. A solution would be then if a number is needed again due to too many retired #s they can start issuing something like 11A of 11.5 for retired numbers like in this case I mentioned 11 for Simms.
I gota go folks bbl.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Tito, you are a very good debater but Eli being the best QB in Giants history.......I don't know.
I will leave it at that.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Jul 20, 2010 12:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ohhhhhhhhh Lo my man...
Please tell me you’d like to discuss this further, I would LOVE to share with you my opinion on the enigma that is Eli Manning, and where I think he will end up in the history books.
For now I will leave you with a question…
Name three QBs who have thrown for over 3200 YDs, and for over 20 TDs in each of the last five seasons.
Consistency is key my man, and we have the rock of gibraltar at QB.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously that question should end with a question mark.
Looks a lot like this: ?
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course putting it in the form of a question might warrant said mark.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
?
Are you having a conversation with yourself as you think about what you wrote?
Correcting my grammar mistake.
Then corrected the correction that didn’t need correcting.
Yafollow?
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL. Damn Tito, why did I get you get statred?
My answer: John Elway, Sonny Jurgensen and Dan Marino. I don’t know what it is about Eli but he dosen’t seem to have the fire that his brother has. I guess that everytime I hear his name, I think about his brother’s acconplishments and think they are one and the same in ability.
A game of Chess is like a sword fight....you must think first....before you move.
by LoNJDTechnology on Jul 20, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Hahaha had to man...
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 21, 2010 7:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it will come down to the single season sack record.
With an acoolade like that, on top of everything else he accomplished (Super Bowl HOF) you’d be hard pressed not to give him the honor.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
We'll have to see.
There are other great players who haven’t received the honor. They are running short on numbers. A good solution might be to hang banners form the upper deck with the names of outstanding players. they do that in Buffalo. I’m not sure if they reserve it excusively for HOFers.
That's actually a great idea.
Theoretically they will have to stop retiring numbers at some point, which hardly seems fair for guys like Strahan who have earned it.
Banners would clear up the numbers, while still properly honoring legends of the past.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
#40
If it’s #40 and Joe Morrison you are referring to, you’re correct.
I forget the exact circumstances, but there was a press conference where something was being announced ( ? ) and the speaker said that #40 was going to be retired in honor of Joe Morrison. The Giants brass supposedly knew nothing about it beforehand, but they decided to not renege what was aannounced and retire the number. I think Morrison died rather young, and think this was just after his death, but am not sure.
The other possibility is Al Blozois, but retiring his number was more than just emotion. He played extremely well with the Giants, but he left them because wanted to enlist in the Army during WW II. He became a lieutenant, wanted to go to the front, and was killed a short time later in France. I am fuzzy on the details, but his story is easy to look up.
Blozis
Yes I was referring to Al Blozis and his retired nu,ber 32. He died in World War 2. I do know that he had made immediate impact on the teams success as soon as he arrived to the Giants. So retiring his number was ok then. I take back my comment.
The other Giants player who died in the 2nd world war was Jack Lumus. Lumus is an interesting story. He was at Iwo Jima and was among those soldiers who hoisted that famous flag. The pic we see is a leter reenactment for a photo session. Lumus was killed by a gun shot after he hoisted the flag. There is controversy on who was actually there to do so but I include Lumus in what I call Giants Lore as one of the guys who put the US flag at Iwo Jima.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Blozis
I was curious to learn more myself, and looked him up on the Georgetown University website. After reading what they wrote I had to post these last four paragraphs :
“Blozis played for the better part of two seasons with the Giants before leaving for the war in Europe. During that time he was an outstanding performer, being chosen All-Pro, and given special acclaim for his ability to obliterate would-be kick returners in the open field. For his exploits, Blozis was named to the 1940-1949 “All Decade” team.
The saddest aspect of Al Blozis’ life was its brevity. Endeared to this country, Blozis sought long and earnestly to obtain a dispensation from military height restrictions. He finally received his wish when inducted into the United States Army on Dec. 9, 1943. During infantry training, he again exhibited his outstanding physical ability by throwing a hand grenade 284’-2 1/2" (95 yards) —nearly three times the previous distance of a normal throw and demolishing the previous record throw easily. Yet, in the end, this attribute did nothing to protect his life. On his first patrol, less than two months after playing his last game on the Gridiron, Lt. Alfred Blozis was killed in the Vosges Mountains during an encounter related to the Battle of the Bulge. Al Blozis was 26 years old.
Blozis’ premature death robbed football of a standout player, track and field of a virtually certain Olympic gold medalist, and Georgetown of a devoted alumnus. If it is any indication, he received just recognition of his talent while alive. Most notable is a UPI award selecting Al Blozis one of the three outstanding athletes of 1941.
If you were wondering, the other two were Ben Hogan and Joe Louis."
He must have been an amazing athlete, with an amazing heart.
More on Blozis
He was a popular player and made difference for us. He became a legend after he died and there was a comic that came out in his honor: Human Howitzer.
http://pages.prodigy.net/revmoran/Blozis%20Comic.htm
It is possible that his grenade throwing record may still stand.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
maybe
You all may be correct about the emotional decision to retire #40, but, gosh he was special. Never missed a game in 14 seasons. Played at least 6 offensive and two defensive positions- as a fill in starter in most cases ( like the ’62 Championship Game as a safety.
Smart player, good, not great runner. Good to great receiver, but not a lot of speed- tremendous blocker, and he bled Giants blue.
Plus, later, a great college coach, died at 51 of heart failure. He would be 72 if alive today.
Wonderful player. I always thought his number should have been retired. It was the right thing to do ( as should #81 and #79 and , really, #70).
#s
I think that since they haven’t done #70, #79, #81 already, and maybe #53 too, there won’t be many more numbers retired. These #’s all certainly deserve it.
I think that #21 retired too soon, in addition to burning his bridges, and while #92 might deserve it, how can they retire his number for him without adding #81 to the list? As for #10, he doesn’t merit consideration yet, but I hope he does in the future ( especially my future! ) because the better he plays, the better the Giants will become, and the more good games I will get to see.
I'm lost, 77
who was # 40? I’m guessing Joe Morrison?
yes- Morrison
The writer, as it turns out, was talking about the player you knew as a kid- Al Blozis, which you also caught, above my post, though it should have come after.
Damned confusing this e-mail, post world.
These things don’t go in the order in which they are sent for some reason ( maybe my bad in posting…).
number of posts
Ed, I have been following these numbers since #1- and isn’t this the largest number of posts on any one number to date?
And the posts have run all over the place ( not unusual), but, jeepers, what a lot of emotions on this number.
#?
More posts here than at #80 for Shockey? That one ran all over the place.
Could Be
But, hey, discussion is what it’s all about. I like to think I’m right far more often than I’m wrong … but generating discussion, learning more about the history of this great franchise and enjoying this team are what it’s all about.
by Ed Valentine on Jul 20, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Couldn't agree more.
Bridgeing the gap between generations.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
You are absolutely right
but it should be Schofner – I can’t see five all-pros and five pro bowls being offset by one play, even if it is a play I can watch over and over.
Mickey C
Lets beat him
Well let us post more and beat that shockey dude. We have three heroes in number 85: Shofner, Baker and Tyree
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Gotta be someone better then Tyree.
The catch was “The Catch”, other then that he was a special teams demon. Aside from that whole playoff run where probably as miraculous as the catch itself, he actually caught the ball, the guy had stone hands his whole career.
SS12 being out the whole year, as the slot WR Tyree’s stone hands hurt the Giants more then they helped.
Never saw Shofner or really Baker, but they were better players.
Go New York Go!
And there were better ST players.
I’m thinking particularly of Mickey Walker, a total madman, mentioned by many HOFers in their bios.
even on the Giants
Renee Thompson for example….one of the better ST players I can remember.
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
Walker played his whole career with the Giants.
he ws the first STer to get any ink, by far more than any other since.
Always learning more about the Giants wow
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
I stayed outta this convo
but I think FB is right (among others).
If Ed ever makes a book about the best #‘s…..can you imagine the look on people’s faces when they flip through it and see David Tyree representing #85???
Yes, his catch was one of the best ever….but his career was not….
Shofner get this number….and the Touchdown Maker takes it above Tyree….
I’m sorry David.
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
Perhaps we should look at it a little different than...
Obviously no one here is arguing that he was statistically the best player to wear 85.
But who did more for the franchise overall?
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Shofner
Shofner did for several years. Then Baker then Tyree.
I know tomorrow is not going to be this busy in here and I know one guy who will not get picked is derek brown
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Come on guys.........
I’m not even gonna write anything, I’m just gonna put what Ed wrote again because he said it best.
I really don’t care about the fact that Tyree made only 54 regular-season catches in six seasons. I really don’t care that he was, for the most part, known only as a special-teams standout.
I care about the Helmet Catch. I care about the play that ultimately doomed the unbeaten New England Patriots in Super Bowl 42. Make a play like that, the number gets reserved for you when posts like this are written.
Apologies to Shofner, a five-time Pro Bowler and five-time All-Pro, three of those while with the Giants from 1961-67. You were the best player to ever wear this number for the Giants, with 239 receptions and more than 4,000 receiving yards.
Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for us Giants’ fans, you are not the most important Giant to ever wear the number. That honor goes to Tyree
Tell me one great memory that you have from the illustrious 6 year, 3 time Pro Bowl career that Shofner had with the Giants, and I’ll think twice about it.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
interpretation....
it’s all about interpretation….
but the best playER to wear #85 was not Tyree.
it’s like picking your All Giants team…..would Tyree be there? would Shofner?
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
Neither would be there.
Because both players looked to be basically average.
And while I completely agree with you that Tyree was not the best player to wear number 85 based solely on stats (even though everyone loves to forget he too was a Pro Bowler) I don’t see how anyone could make a case that Shofner was more importnant to the franchise.
He gave us our “Immaculate Recpetion” he gave us our “Catch” and he was one of the biggest pieces in helping the Giants win the greatest Super Bowl in NFL history.
So yea, agree to disagree, if you’re fieilding a team Shofner was a better average player than Tyree, but if you’re writing a book, you’d better have Tyree at 85.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
i'll give you baker
he was average….at best….but definitely had a better career than tyree….
but shofner….5 time ALL PRO….tha’ts ALL PRO, not just Pro Bowl
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
But only 3 with the Giants...
Which is what we’re discussing.
And I honestly don’t know how much stock to put in the All Pro argument since I don’t know how the system was back than, and there wasn’t nearly as much competition. Tyree could have been a five time All Pro player too had there only been 14 teams in the league.
What I can say for sure is I’ve never heard his name before today, and I come on this site and others like it everyday. No one has ever said “Look at Steve Smith go! He’s the next Del Hofner!” On top of that, 10 years from now, people will still be seeing Tyree’s catch on NFL Network, while Hofner falls farther to obscurity.
This brings me back to my initial response.
Tell me one great memory you have of Del Shofner, and I’ll think twice.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
How did a great memory become the test?
I can’t tell you a great memory about Robustelli, Katcavage, Grier, Moduleski (sp), Connerly, Tunnell, hell even Huff….
But that don’t mean they weren’t legends….
the 14 teams and less players back in the day is a good point…and something I have brought up in the past, but still….
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
no to mention
i’m sure Gonz, Cranky, True….or one of those guys could give you an ear full about shofner…..
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
I'm sure they could.
And here is where i’ll digress…
I was simply trying to make a case that Ed has it right.
Sometimes there’s more to football than stats.
Everyone thinks Shofner deserves this number because he had better stats, which were, in my eyes, not that spectacular.
Tyree had one moment that changed the course of NFL history, and to me, that makes me feel like he can have it. That is all.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
we are allowed to disagree
nothing wrong with that….
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
But of course
As I’m sure we’ll be on the same side of the fence more otften than not once relevant football discussion is brought to the table.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
14 teams?
Another aspect of the league being much smaller “back then” is that there were many less football players. Maybe the NFL was just starting to become the game it is today ( after Giants – Colts 1958 ), and certainly the salaries were not as high, but if you wanted to play football, there was much more competition for much fewer roster spots.
Unfortunately, even though David Tyree could do several things, which was still important then, he was probably not good enough in any of his skills to have even made the team that Del Shofner was on, much less become a multiple All-Pro.
Probably...
Del Shofner probably couldn’t make an NFL franchise today.
Speculation is moot.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
More Probably ....
Shofner would have a much better chance of making the Giants team today, or in any other year, than Tyree would. He was elite in the entire league five times back then in a bigger category, called “Offense”, which I think trumps being selected once for “Special Teams”.
But, as you said, “speculation is moot”, so we’ll just have to rely on statistics and reason, which are good enough in this case.
And yet...
Only one name sits atop this post.
And that name is Tyree.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
And Yet ....
Look how many postings have been put up by all of the more knowledgeable fans to point out this sacrilege.
Hopefully the “editor” will see reason and truth, and finally change it.
If not now, certainly later if a book on the Giants numbers is to be published.
No need to change it.
He qualified his choice significantly and acknowledge that Shof was better
And thank you for that Old Giant
Knowledge is afterall, power.
So next time someone comes up to me and asks who was the greatest, or the way I have been looking at it, most important Giant to wear number 85…I’ll remember Del Shofner played six seasons, and went to 3 pro bowls, and put up over 4000 yards for this team before I firmly and confidently answer “David Tyree.” Because it was he, and not Del, who forever changed Giants, and or that matter NFL history with one catch.
Del was undoubtedly the better of the two recievers in his era, no one is arguing that. But not even his fine play over six seasons can trump the greatest play in Giants history, in my mind anyway.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Alas ...
I guess you’ll just be happier living with your delusions. And, that’s OK, because in this case, no one else will be hurt.
No need to get cranky Old Giant
Just because someone doesn’t agree with your opinion, doesn’t make them “delusional”.
I’m sure I could swap Giants knowledge with you all day until we’re both BLUE in the face (see what I did there) but just because I view one play as more important to this franchises history, than six seasons from someone I’ve never heard of before, never heard mentioned by anyone on this site, or any other site like this before, does not make me delusional.
And once again, top prove that point, look no further than the top of this post, because I am not alone in this thought.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Cranky Note
A good thing about this list is its’ educational value, that we all can learn about players that we’ve never heard of before, or more about who we knew or have forgotten, and put it all into perspective. We can all then agree or disagree, and have different value judgments.
You chose to think that one moment can out weigh everything else.
I can’t think of a good enough analogy, which is unusual. The best I can think of now is, What’s more important, a great kiss or a great relationship?
You have to have experienced both to decide, but you may regret it if you put all your faith into the great kiss.
Completely agree.
This list has been great for educational purposes. I’ve learned a lot about the tradition of this team I never knew before, and for that I thank Ed, and Blue Gonz, and you Old Giant, for sharing a part of what makes this team better than any other.
However, I don’t “chose to think that one moment can outweigh everything else” but simply feel that this moment outweighs, by all accounts, an already forgotten former player. So to play on your analogy I’ll use a quote from earlier in this post..from a man whose handle happens to be shofner85:
Tyree as # 85 will likely be most revered and remembered today, and 50 years from now.
50 years is an awfully long kiss…
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
50 years?
Hopefully both will be overshadowed in Giants history in 50 years, but Shofner will be easier to look up.
I would hate to tell you who I think will still be remembered from this era in 1000 years or more, if we are still able to understand history.
Again...
Juat quoting what Shofner85 had said, I agree with his opinion, but he wrote it first.
Also, I would love to hear who you think will still be remembered (lets dial it down) 100 years from now. Please share.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
1000 years
I like the big view. At that time they will probably curse us for many things that we and our society did without thinking about them, and hopefully the work to correct what we did, and will still do, will be mostly in their past.
Their knowledge of history will be much like your knowledge about the Giants, not going back too far, but they are sure to know of a few names and “accomplishments” from our times without having to look them up somewhere. Some would be obvious, like the first moon landing or Einstein, but others might be a surprise. I would rather not write what I think because it really reflects badly on human psychology, and this is not the forum for it.
I do know that in 1000 years they will probably not remember much about David Tyree’s catch in SB 42, but Del Shofner will still be thought of fondly as the first great Giants wide receiver.
Just don't see how the next generation
Will remember Shofner more fondly than Tyree.
I’m pretty sure my knowledge is above, if not on par with most of my buddies, and not one of them could tell me a thing about Shofner.
However, Tyree’s catch…much like Dwight Clarks, Franco Harris, etc, etc, don’t go away…Tyree will be remembered as long as they have NFL Films.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry
What does that prove? Your buds probably couldn’t tell you anything about dial telephones, camera film, vinyl records, carburetors and points, or cathode ray tubes either.
It proves that certain things are forgotten about...
And certain things aren’t?
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
More Sorry
I wonder if you and your buds know anything about many others from before your time, like Lyndon Johnson, Franklin Roosevelt, Albert Einstein and Thomas Edison? You’d probably only know of Lincoln and Washington from asking whose pictures those were on the money.
Come now
We all know that life begins when we become aware of it and that everything before that is ancient history, of little interest to most people. Our younger friends should not be disparaged for not knowing as much as we do about things that happened before they were born; we have memories that are just not available to them.
Even if we have been unable to convince them of the justice of our cause (Shofner over Tyree), they have been willing to listen and consider what we have said. That should be enough.
Mickey C
One more WR
You are doing great friend and may I suggest that you look at Stephen Baker too. He wore #85 too and made a very important catch and then he twisted and turned and got out of some more tackles and got the chain moving. He helped to prolong that drive which let to the winning TD in a superbowl win too. That used to be my favorite play till That Troy Aikman sack by LT then Seahorn came along and did his flip interception return for TD. Then of course then came Tyree who gave us the best play we have in our Giants heritage.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
BB I'm young...
But I’ve actually met Steven Baker the touchdown maker at a charity basketball game. He was one of my fathers favorite players. The only reason I have left him out of this discussion is because he really doesn’t have much of a case considering Shofner has the stats, and Tyree has the play.
Thank you for bringing him up though, he was always a fan favorite in our household.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
"..forever changed...?"
and, ..“.NFL history…?”
Wow!
Suppose Eli had never broken free?
Suppose we had never scored the TD after the catch?
Hey, it was a fantastic play, maybe the league’s best of all time, BUT. as someone already said,
Tyree didn’t win it, the team won it.
Say It Again
You can’t say that often enough, and that will still not be enough to make them listen.
18-1 would have been 19-0
Had it not been for Tyree’s helmet catch.
That’s kind of a big deal in the NFL.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
And yet…
Only one name sits atop this post.
That’s a Meaningless point! The name sitting on top of this post is the OPINION of one man. Ed! That doesn’t make it the right choice..
If your argument is Tyree’s number deserves the nod base on one miracle catch that’s OK.
But don’t disparage the ‘ordinary’ stats of Shofner. You’re contradiction yourself. Shofner’s stats are ordinary yet Tyree’s stat pales in comparison.
Little late to the party Frank
Come back tomorrow when I try to prove that Ron Dixon was a better Giant then Lionel Manuel…should be a blast.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope
You bring your popcorn.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope
you spend your night studying Giants history while realizing They have a rich history prior to your 22 years on this earth.
That's why I read here though...
So many posters here have a seemingly infinite amount of knowledge of past Giants teams. It truly is a pleasure to read there posts and learn something new everyday.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Very eager to learn about history.
Even more eager to see what the future will bring.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
for a guy who you admittedly know nothing about
how can you say that?
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
Me?
I’ve followed the Giants since I was a little boy, remembering the 1956 title game against the Bears, Pat Summerall kicking in the snow, Raymond Berry checking where the field was wet so he could remember where to cut against the Giants, Gifford getting zonked by Chuck Bednarick, and much more of that stuff. I remember when Del Shofner came to the Giants, taking over #85 from Bob Schnelker, and I remember how he and Tittle changed the Giants game. I also remember that Charlie Conerly still had to help out Y.A. a few times in his first year.
I was just pointing out how pointless it is
to speculate on players making teams from different eras.
Because that is what it is, pointless.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Then a comparison between Shof and
Tyree is meaningless.
If so, haven’t we anthing better to do.
I do
Not better.
A dental appointment at 3
EST?
My clock says 3:31 lol better hustle…
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahhhh
Explains it.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
All Giants
They were all Giants players and so are we all Giants fans.
Is this not nice or what?
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
With only 14 teams and far smaller roster,
Tyree woudn’t have played at all. Shofner was a star, nor an “average” player. So was Eddie Price.
I wonder if shofner is reading these or other players (especially former) for that matter. Do they read these posts espcially aout themselves. It would be nice if someone like like shofner posted at this post. I mean Shofner himself and not a fake or clone nic.
If I was TC or JR I would print these pages and post on the ullten boards or make it mandatory to read for the roster.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
my b key is stuck grrrrr
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Shofner's importance to the franchise
The Giants went to NFL championship games in 1961-63. Without Shofner, they probably don’t.
Not noted above is the fact that he is in the NFL 1960s All-Decade team. Given the arc of his career (he was hurt in 1964 and was never the same), it was because of his contributions to the Giants in 1961-63.
Not a “basically average” player.
Mickey C
Basically Mickey...
For me what it comes down to is who was the more important Giant to wear this number.
Now, after today, I will probably remember Del Shofner. But ten years from now, I probably won’t. Is Tyree ever going to go away?
I doubt it.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
As long as you specify important, you're not wrong, although, as I
already said, IMO, you’re blowing out of proportion the importance of that one catch. albeit the most spectacular play in NFL histoery. Most of what you’ve said has been geared toward proving T was better than S. He wasn’t. it’s not even close. Now, your intention might not have been to prove it, but that’s what i heard/read. Many others as well, I believe.
Similarly, many who’ve debated with you seem to be motivated by what they consider downsizing S’s accomplishments because of Ed’s radical change in his own rules. I have no objection to his changing his own rules. That doesn’t mean I agree that T is “more important” than S. In some ways i can see why some might arrive at that conclusion. In other ways i can see why others might disagree. It depends on how you define importance.
EXACTLY
If you read every post I’ve posted today I’ve done nothing other than OPENLY ADMIT AND AGREE that Shofner was the BETTER PLAYER. But Ed wrote:
Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for us Giants’ fans, you are not the most important Giant to ever wear the number. That honor goes to Tyree.
Which is really all I’ve been trying to say. I FEEL, in my OPINION, that Tyree’s catch was more important than Shofners career.
I can see why those who saw Shofner play would disagree, but that play, that play will live on in NFL lore FOREVER. That will be what people identify with when they think of the 2007 Giants, the only team to beat an undefeated team in the Super Bowl.
And that’s just my opinion, how anyone can say it’s wrong or delusional is just ridiculous…because it’s an opinion, and everyone is entitled to one.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Call Shofner!
Wherever he may be, I hope Del Shofner reads what it says in that blue box, or someone sends it to him somehow, so he can respond.
It would be great if he could see this whole entire unending blog and know that he is not forgotten by informed Giant fans.
Which is great Old Giant
Its great to have informed Giants fans because in fifty years when I try to explain who Jeff Feagles is to someone, they might not even know what a punter was, let alone what it meant to have such a consistently accurate player at the position. But you better damn well believe that if they don’t know who he was, they will after our conversation. Which is what you and others just did for me with Del Shofner. Former NY Giants WR #85. A five time all pro who could stretch the field, and represented us 3 times in the Pro Bowl…a player who should never be confused with avereage, and more importantly, one who should not be forgotten.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 21, 2010 10:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Memories
It will be part of Giants lore but will get filed in the memories like other big plays. It will end up being raked in the top ten Giants plays and may be in the top somewhere.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Shofner
Del Shofner could very well be on an All-Time Giants team, and if not starting at wide receiver, certainly on the 53 man roster.
I think records are made to be broken, that athletes and competition are always getting better, and you can’t reasonably compare one era to another, but I have a brain, and in this case it is easy, a “no brainer” even.
- belongs to Del Shofner until someone wearing that number out performs him.
All other human problems should be so easy to resolve.
All decade team
Shofner is in the all decade team for his era.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Again
Tyree is an emotional choice because of just one play. His choice could not be made after objectively considering each players entire career and how important they were to the team, as all of the other choices have been made. Ed gave some emotional reasons when the differences between players was close, but the playing field was level. No matter how memorable Tyree’s one play was, it should not tilt the entire field.
David Tyree should be at the top of the list of greatest Giant plays ever, but that is another topic and another list.
What we have been following is a list of the best Giant players ever to wear each uniform number, and Del Shofner deserves #85 more than any other Giant.
Curse you, Red Baron
The most memorable play I can think of with Shof was his when he was wide open in the end zone in the ’63 championship game against the Bears and dropped a YA pass. Doug Atkins, the Bears HOF DE said, “I could have caught it.” The Bears were shocked. theGiants were shocked, the crowd and the TV audience was shocked. Above all, Del was shocked Rote dropped a critcal pass in that game as well, and, I berlieve, so did Giff. But glue-fingered Del. NO! IMPOSSIBLE!
Well, there you go
He did do it in another championship game. Read all about it in Ed’s Maple press. (Forgive yet another shameless plug.)
Good
I was wondering where you were all this time. lol. Now where is ghostdhani?
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
his opinion would be interesting
that guy keeps me on my toes….
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
He usually hangs out at the espn beast site
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
I guess his other moniker is common knowledge
I’m over there a lot too….except I try to avoid Mosley as much as possible LOL
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
Aaaaah
Mosley can not accept the fact that any team before the cowboys could be great. I got tired of argueing with him that the 1956 team could be better than the 86 team. When people are like that then how can I even bring the topic of 1961 and 1962 teams. He disregards that we won all those championships in the past.
Then people try to make the point that older teams played in smaller leagues etc. But look, Those teams played 12 game schedules. That is only 2 games less than Dolphins perfect season.
Another stupidity over there are the trolls from other teams who hate Jints. They are jealous of our legacy.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
we've obviously crossed paths....
are you Bill in DC?
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
no
my nic in espn is the same as here bb1156. My avatar there is a baby panda pic (san diego zoo). I am the one who posted you the Spider Lockhart patch the Giants wore during the 1986 season. Rememebr now? lol
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Yw
You may also remember me from my article : ‘World According To Dallas Cowboys’ Fans’. Who better to write that than me, someone from Dallas. You cannot go thru the day in that city without hearing that teams name at least a 1000 times and seeing that ugly blue star all over town. Newscasters and anchors come on tv wearing that ugly blue thing. aaaarghhhh.
Anyway, you all went to my blog and got a kick out of it. I am not going to post my url here since I am not here to promote my blog. This is not about me but the Giants.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Dunno
I dont know of it is common knowledge but I just happen to be able to catch his nic there and here are two different ones which is just fine and i will not post the other nics here or there
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Lumus
Ed, can you please mention Lumus when you revise number 29. That is the jersey he wore. He was the other Giants player who got killed in the 2nd world war (Iwo Jima). Thanks.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
See www.jacklummus.com
or the Wikipedia article for all the details. I knew he was killed on Iwo Jima but I didn’t realize he was awarded the Medal Of Honor!
Mickey C
Wow!
That I didn’t know. Highest military honor of all, given to few, most of them KIA, like Loomis.There was a Medal of Honor winner in my outfit when I served. A very nice guy and a total fuck up, getting promoted, then busted in a continuing cycle. On parades or any occasion requiring full dress uniform, he wore his medal and the officers had to salute him. That was a sight to see. He kept cycling from branch to branch in the military, Navy to Army to Marines to AF.
More
I did post more about Lumus somewhere on this page and it is probably above this post. He was one of those original people who hoisted the flag at Iwo Jima. He was later killed by a Japanese sniper. The famous pic that we see is an enactment by other soldiers for the photograph.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Ditto Shof #85
My view: (stealing some words from above) body of work vs single play….
on a side note
has any other # generated so many comments?
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
nope
this ones been fun.
A true debate between what should be put on the pedstal, stats or nostalgia.
Eli Manning vs. Tony Romo if you will.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
You two need an unbiased mediator ...
Allow me. It’s Shofner.
Allow Ed.
His post.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
na, all in good fun
I think tito and I are agreeing to disagree on this one….
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
Will the Real
Will the real Shofner stand up please. lol
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Keep up?
I’m worn out. I hope #86 is a unanimous choice.
I thought #75
would be a day like this….instead it was dead quiet.
Leave it to #85 and David Tyree to bring out 200 comments…..in the off season!
un real….maybe Tyree does deserve the number??? HAHAHAHA
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
Haha
I don’t think anyone will argue that one goes to Ron Dixon.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL....oh man, tomorrow is gonna be another long day.....
Lionel Manuel > Ron Dixon
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
I don't man...
He had the FIRST KICKOFF RETURN FOR A TD in Giants playoff history!
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
who cares....
lol, he was a punk. Fassel had no control over him….
Manuel also had a 1K receiving year for the Gmen
lol….this is like back to back special teams players….no way Dixon takes that #
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
Except you?
Are you just getting warmed up now, that his kick off return in the 2000 season Super Bowl was the Giants best play ( and only good memory ), so he should get #86 regardless of what any other Giant ever did?
That was your ploy today. Please try some other tact tomorrow.
Oh NO ! !
I was right! Here comes Tito for Dixon!
COME ON GUYS!!!!
Wheres the fun if everyone agrees on one player???
This post would have been dead at 25 comments if I hadn’t given ya’ll a reason to stick around. Thanks for playing along though, makes work go by much quicker!
I’ll do some research on Dixon and make sure I have a compelling case so we can go at it again tomorrow…it’s like preseason for posting!
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
pre season for posting....clever....
it’s all in good fun tito….
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
For some more than others I guess.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
You had fun during work today, Tito?
I hope your job has nothing to do with public safety or air traffic control.
Actually...
I’m in charge of Public Safety here at the Air Traffic Control Center in Atlantic City…
:/
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Ed, a suggestion:
Instead of shoehorning Tyree into a spot on he best player./jersey # list, Include a special section honoring him for his miracle catch. Better yet include a list of the most memorable Giants’ plays, say five or ten. Include your crtieria. E.g., I could argue that Summerall’s kick was more important because that impossible kick actually won the game and a championship with only minutes or seconds left (I forget which.) I bet that there are such lists somewhere on the internet, or you could poll BBVers for their lists and use that to formulate your own.
Damn, I think maybe someone already wrote a book about memorable Giants’ plays. Well, that was a while ago and in light of Tyree’s grab alone, could use updating.
Absolutely!
The idea of a separate list of great Giant plays has been mentioned several times today already, and it makes more sense each time. Tyree should be on one, and Shofner is #85 on the other.
The play you mention is another good choice for that list, close to the top because of what it meant: beating the Browns that game sent the Giants into a playoff with them, which they also won and went on to play for the NFL championship. When Pat Summerall came off the field after that kick, not having seen for himself that it was good as the ball disappeared into the snow towards the goal posts 50 yards away, Vince Lombardi hugged him and said, “Don’t you know you can’t kick it that far?”
Lol
Please do not post till I have caught up reading al the posts in this one. lol
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
That might take a while
See, regardless of my choice I did what a blogger is supposed to do. I created discussion. Of course, maybe one that will never end, but still …
by Ed Valentine on Jul 20, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Having seen both Shofner and Tyree play...
I’m glad BOTH were Giants. I think a lot of the memorable arguement above involves much of why we remember sporting achievements in general. Some of us, of an age, saw both players on the field (along with many others) and feel fairly certain that picking one over the other is a pretty easy task. Others, of a different age, saw only one play. The younger folks who only saw Tyree’s great catch are loyal to him, as he made the impression on them. The older folks who aren’t still with us and saw only Shofner would have no interest in Tyree, but of course they’re not here to comment. Most of us can’t remember what band opened for our favorite group at a concert, or maybe even what we had for breakfast last Friday. Still, we know where we were when Tyree made his catch, but just as importantly, and as noted many, many times in wonderful stories on this blog, we know where we were and who we were with for Sunday after Sunday of Giants football. Both Shofner and Tyree are part of the same movie, the movie of our lives if you’re here reading this. One had several scenes, one a memorable cameo appearance. One persons memory isn’t more or less than another’s and as this is blog is Ed’s, and adequately explained his thoughts, I have no beef with him. But while Shofner to me was far the better player, both are memorable to those who saw them play.
by Cranky50 on Jul 20, 2010 9:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 20, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Niners Nation
is now doing Niners by the Numbers – Ed is a trend setter!
Of interest to us – YA Tittle is their #14 as well, although they note that his best years were with the Giants.
Mickey C
Crazy people
One lucky play means more than someone who made five Pro Bowls and who was the main receiver for the Giants for many seasons. You people need your rationality examined, especially the writer of this article.
Its hype
It is hype from the media and tv etc
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Depends where the all went
Ball goes to the left and Tyree catches the ball
If ball went to the right TD
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
I understand both points of view.
Shofner was an exciting, game-breaking receiver for the Giants during one of their golden eras. Tyree was one half of what was arguably the greatest play in team history.
What I don’t understand is someone who “resents” the worthiness — in essence, the very existence of — a player who is unknown to him. What should be resented is chanting in the temple of ignorance.
THE Catch
The thought and any video of this still gives me shivers everytime i watch it. Greatest play in super bowl history hands down. I still cant believe it is sometimes compared to Harrison’s full field interception in 08’ the following year. Not taking anything away from that play by any means but within the circumstances it cant be compared to. Under 2 minutes in the biggest game of the year against possibly the greatest team in nfl history and a strict special teams contributor who catches maybe 10 balls every year pulls in a pass like that is nothing short of a miracle. Tyree is no longer with us, but he will always be a giant for life.
by Bigbluewreckingcrew25 on Jul 21, 2010 4:57 PM EDT reply actions
I'm not going to debate Tyree getting the call here
I just wanted yet another chance to say, “I will never tire of watching that highlight”. Greatest sports moment of my, and I’m sure all of us here’s, life.
Hail Tyree
And the main reason that he is the #3 best #85 is that he made a spectactularly unusual catch of what was basically a “Hail Mary” pass from a scrambling quarterback, who had just spectactularly escaped being sacked, during the winning touchdown drive very late in the 4th quarter of SB 42.
He had a good five year career, mostly as a one time Pro-Bowl special teams player, but he also contributed as the 5th or 6th wide receiver; he scored the Giants first touchdown in SB 42. David Tyree’s career statistics do not compare with those of Del Shofner, or Stephen Baker, but that one catch in SB 42 will always distinguish him.
Agree OG
We have remembered Shofner and Baker (as well as Tyree) these last few days in here. I have argued in favor of Shofner all along and was there right at the start among the first 2 or 3 posts who favored Shofner. In fact I was bracing myself to fight for Shofner just in case Baker would have got the nod.
At this point I do want to comment that Tyree was a good player for us. His contributions at his own level were all very good. He was a good guy for us and had great attitude and knew the axe was coming after he got out of IR. He kept good manners and was supportive of our system and left with honor.
Honestly, I was disappointed to see our hero go. We should have kept Tyree instead of continuously carrying over Moss on the rosters like we do. Grrr don’t get me started.
JR, how about promoting Moss to a former Giant and recovering Tyree back for us. Tyree is a Giant.
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
Lets Us Start A: Bring Back Tyree and Get Rid of Moss Movement!
Being a New York Football Giants fan or a player is not a label but a calling!
You now have two votes on that!
Our special teams could use a little help, and it might be good for the Giants to have another WR to come in under the radar and then snag another memorable catch when need one.
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