Giants By The Numbers: 80 Is For ...
by Ed Valentine on Jul 16, 2010 9:46 AM EDT
in Giants By The Numbers
93 comments
Oh, Lord! I'm not really sure I want to do this one.
I really hate doing it, but this number is for ... Jeremy Shockey. It has to be. There is a huge part of me that, sentimentally, wants to give this one to the popular Bill Parcells era wide receiver Phil McConkey. I simply can't do it.
I loved the guts of the 5-foot-10, 170-pound McConkey as both punt returner and wide receiver. The eye black, the frenzy-enducing towel waving, and the Super Bowl touchdown pass he caught that ricocheted off Mark Bavaro's hands are images etched in my brain.
I can't, however, deny the fact that as a New York Giant Shockey was a far superior player to McConkey, and pretty much everyone else who has ever worn the number.
- In six seasons with the Giants, Shockey caught 371 passes -- more than any tight end in franchise history.
- He went to four Pro Bowls and was named All-Pro in his rookie season of 2002 -- which would turn out to be the best individual season of his career.
Whether it was the change in regime from Jim Fassel to Tom Coughlin, or Shockey's own wild lifestyle and injury-prone body, he has never again lived up to that rookie season when he caught a career-high 74 passes and was a nightmare for defensive backs.
We all know his antics, both on and off the field, were sometimes not well-received. We all know Shockey's ending in New York was not pretty. Some of you are still disappointed he is gone, I'm sure. That stuff isn't what we are here to discuss today, though.
Shockey remains one of the most unique characters -- and most talented pass receivers -- in Giants' franchise history.
I can't see any way NOT to make him the winner here.
By the way, in five Giant seasons from 1984-88 McConkey -- a Navy graduate -- caught 67 passes, averaged 8.0 yards on 228 punt returns and 19.2 yards on 69 kickoff returns.
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McConkey had to be may favorite player when i was younger....
but it goes to Jeremy….
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
Agreed
Not only was McConkey my favorite, but I had the pleasure of meeting him a few times. One heck of a good guy and an inspiration for a young kid at 5’9" 170 trying to play RB. But, Shockey probably earned this one on the field over McConkey. Too bad Shockey couldn’t have had an ounce of McConkey’s personality.
Compromise
If you feel ambivalent about giving #80 to Jeremy Shockey, and can’t rationalize how Phil McConkey might deserve it, why not compromise and give it to John Mistler?
O.k. - Shockey gets #80.....BUT....
Remember the Giants (Parsells) traded McConkey, realized they’d screwed up and traded back for him. Nobody traded back to get Jeremy.
Cab Calloway
Not even a mention about him? He had a better career than McConkey, even if the Giants sucked during his years. 334 catches, 4,710 yards, and 27 TDs as a Giant, with the great Dave Brown throwing him most of those balls it’s a wonder he caught anything.
Geez
Nice catch. You know, I’m still taking McConkey just because of his place in Giants’ lore. But, yes I should have mentioned Calloway. Good receiver on mostly bad teams.
by Ed Valentine on Jul 16, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
heidi heidi heidi ho
I have a soft spot for Calloway because he was a bright spot on some bad Giants teams, particularly at a time at which I started going to more games and ended up with season tickets.
But numbers wise, he blows away McConkey, and is close to par with Shockey. Same number of touchdowns, yes with more games, but with, other Simms, UFL level quarterbacks in Dave Brown, Danny Kannell and Kent Graham.
Seems like through this list, the late 60’s-70’s guys who had noteworthy careers despite bad Giants teams have won out over marginal players on good teams. Here Calloway should have seen the same respect. Shockey never lived up to the hype, save for the late run in 2002 and the Philly win and in game.
heidi heidi heidi sloooowwww
Cab was a good tough player, but he was no burner. I don’t think he would make today’s teams
it was calloway
gotta be calloway kissel is dead on he did it wit the worst qb of the 90s by far lol
Like it
He was underappreciated, and certainly more deserving than the egomaniac.
"I felt completely out of whack…Once again, I didn’t give our team a chance out of the gate."…..I am Allan James Burnett, and I approve this message.
by Great Gatsby on Jul 18, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree it's Shockey based on stats ...
But there’s no denying he is and always will be a knucklehead. I do think McConkey far and away beats him based on personality and guts.
One other thing to remember about McConkey was that he was a 27-year-old rookie, having served four years in the Navy. Shockey went a got a bad tattoo and that counts as his patriotic duty?
Real life
Phil McConkey once had a great reply to a question about how scared he might be going over the middle to catch balls, knowing he’s likely to get slammed : “It’s nothing compared to landing a helicopter at night in a rain storm on the tail of a destroyer.”
This sums him up perfectly
Cocky and too stupid for his own good
why am i drawing a blank....
what game was this from?
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
This was actually
from a game the Giants managed to lose late. I remember that, but not who or how they lost it.
by Ed Valentine on Jul 16, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
This is the game they dominated Seattle in Seattle
but they missed the last second FG and it went to OT. I think they then lost it after a couple missed FG in the OT as well.
jay feely missed 4 game winning FGs
Albert Pujols + a glove = Ike Davis
by Plaxico Burress on Jul 16, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't believe it....but I'm still drawing a blank....
I remember shockey doing that stupid dance even, and remember him looking like a totally schmuck….but I swear to you I can’t remember the 4 misses….
I’m embarrassed.
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
I wasn't beating myself up for it....
in fact i was quoting will ferrel from Old School after he Re Gifted the present for Vince Vaughn’s son.
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
I've tried to erase it from my memory, too
but I don’t know how anyone could forget Jay Feely blowing three separate chances to win that game in Seattle. We were by far the better team and couldn’t split the uprights.
by YankeeDudeL on Jul 16, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
oh man that game...
I still get pissed when I think of that game in Seattle. Feely pretty much ended his Giants career that day. Oh and let’s not forget how many false start penalties we got. That game gets me almost as upset as when I think of the Giants vs the Niners in that wildcard game from 2002(?). Let’s not forget Shockey charging into Jullian Peterson(to score a vendetta) at the 2 yard line rather than avoiding him for the easy TD. Peterson stuffed him and we settled for the FG. Nobody really talks about that but I thought that was the turning point in the game. Especially since we lost by 1 pt. OK, now I’m mad. Let’s give it to Calloway. But wait? Didn’t Calloway fumble that onsides kick in that playoff game against the Vikes in that 1997 Wildcard game.
by uberfunction on Jul 17, 2010 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Shockey oftened got upset about not getting the ball
For all his antics and drops, he was right. The Giants don’t use the TE in the passing game nearly enough.
What I don't get is...
if you are not going to use the Tight End regularly then why get an good one? Why not average or below average?
Fan's Creed: (Play well+Win=Praise) (Play Well+Lose=Praise) (Play Lousy+Win=Criticism) (Play lousy+Lose & Bandwagon Jumpers=Off with thier heads!)
by LoNJDTechnology on Jul 16, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
thats true
And I don’t understand why we hate him so for suggesting what we speak of almost daily on here – if you have a talented TE, you use him! We say it about Boss all the time. And shockey knew he wasn’t being utilized the right way here. More power to him in saying so.
by wilddre22 on Jul 17, 2010 5:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Joe Walton
Ever heard of him? Way better than McConkey and should have at least been mentioned.
Did Walton wear 80?
Damn, him I’d take over Shockey. Not anyone else mentioned so far, but Walton? Yes. (I think.)
Guess I’d have to ponder it a while.
The Giants didn’t know how to deal with Shocley. The Saints, particularly Drew Brees, do.
Of course, Shockey’s history with the Giants rubbed some of the rough edges off his obnoxious personality.
Let me put it this way. Unless you know how to handle a jerk like that, you’re better off without him.
Waot a minute, Ed! Didn’t Shipwreck Kelly wear 80 for a while?
Walton
Wore No. 80 for the Giants from 1961-63. I never saw his name in the research I did for this. Yes, he should be mentioned.
by Ed Valentine on Jul 16, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Redskin and Calloway
He came over in a trade with the Redskins, don’t know for whom and was the first official Giant tight end, as that was the year they went with the three receiver set- Shofner, Rote and Walton.Played a tough tight end. Aaron Thomas (#88) replaced him mid-way through the ’63 season, though he was never a real tight end.
Good player- quit in ’63 when he was only 28, as he wanted to get into coaching, which he did.
Also agree with earlier post that Calloway should have been mentioned as well.
Sure, Shockey is the best to wear #80, good choice, but the others should get a nod.
Shockey and Tiki same feelings come with either's name
I loved both players when they were on the field, but after awhile the arrogance from both of them became to much. Both left on bad terms and turns out the team turned the corner without both of them in the locker room. I vote for Calloway for #80 however I agree with Ed Shockey was the most productive #80
by Late for Dinner on Jul 16, 2010 12:51 PM EDT reply actions
calloway
i think it should be chris not only cause we have the same name ) but really he was just a great wr with THE worst qb of the 90’s and his stats are great if u put him with a better qb……..eli to ss is basically wut would happen lol and i remeber him being a tutor for ike hillard and toomer when those 2 got here toomer actually credits cc with teaching him abt those sideline catches a while back i remeber a interview some where
Um,
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
You play to win the game!
Agree with the selection, and I still have two of his jerseys in my closet if anyone is interested, LOL
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Jul 16, 2010 7:05 PM EDT reply actions
i threw out my shockey jersey
and burned my burress jersey.
by GiantsReignSupreme on Jul 16, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
how come you didnt
Trade your shockey jersey and shoot your plax one?
by wilddre22 on Jul 17, 2010 5:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Shockey jerseys
You can keep ’em, Jim, but you just better not wear ’em.
by Ed Valentine on Jul 17, 2010 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions
i still have mine
It unfortunately has mildew stains that won’t come out. Or else I would still proudly rock it.
by wilddre22 on Jul 17, 2010 5:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Joe Walton
wore #80 from 1961-63 as a tight end for the Giants. From the era before John Mackey and Mike Ditka, when tight ends were primarily blockers, he was noted for his blocking – like having another guard on the line, it was said. During his three years with the Giants, he caght 95 passes and scored 17 touchdowns. He later became the head coach of the Jets and led them to the playoffs in 1985 and 1986.
Nevertheless, my choice for #80 is Chris Calloway, a tough player without great speed who was noted for his downfield blocking. I saw him beat the Lions in OT in 1987 with a 68-yard touchdown pass (from Danny Kanell, of all people). He had a better record for the Giants than either McConkey or Shockey.
Mickey C
I'll stick with my weak preference for Joe.
He was an ultra reliable receiver, although he didn’t have many balls thrown his way. YA had five guys to choose from:Shofner, Rote, Giff, Webster and Joe. All good receivers. Joe had a knack for making clutch plays and averaged around fifteen yards per catch for his career YA always went out of his way to praise him. Bottom line for me is that he was an important role player on the Giants team that enjoyed the three best years in franchise history. Not an entirely rational rationale, but my warm feelings toward outweigh the somewhat less than overwhelming credentials (for me) of Shock and Chris.
not wrong
You’re not really wrong about Walton- certainly more of a team player than Shockey. But you are wrong in that Tittle did not ever have both Rote and Gifford, together. Gifford did not play in ’61, and Rote retired after that season. Tittle did have Joe Morrison, of course those years.
Walton, as I mentioned above was actually replaced by Aaron Thomas during the ‘63 season, catching almost as many balls, but not as many TDs. Thomas wore #88, and is known for taking his Giant earnings and buying a seat on the NY Stock Exchange, which I’m sure he sold for a couple of million years later.
You're right about YA not having You're right about YA not having Rote and Giff together. I guess my statement could
be interpreted to at leastto imply that he did. And he did have Morrison, whose name I didn’t include.
Thomas came in as a rookie the same year the Giants traded for Walton. I don’t remember Thomas playing in the ‘63 championship game. Did he? Was Walton hurt?
To explain that defeat, I’ve always primarily focused on YA’s injury and the locker room drama surrounding it, although i could provide list other, less important factors. If Walton didn’t play, that’s another detail I could add to the list of reasons for the loss.
Thomas was no slouch, played with the Giants longer than Joe and I think made the Pro Bowl once or twice.
The two Joes turned out to be damn good coaches, although Morrison was a far superior player than walton.
You know your Giants history, Mickey.
I still wish he was on the team
even though he was a pain in the neck
If anyone remembers Shockey's TD catch over Dawkins
And you know what one I’m talking about if you do.
That’s how I’m gonna remember him.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 16, 2010 11:18 PM EDT reply actions
its maybe one of my favorite catches of his tito
Especially how he laughed in his bitch ass face afterwards like ‘good try little man.’. I hate dawkins.
Its either that catch, or the one where his helmet came off against the eagles, and he still was fighting hard for yards. Or any of his many catches against roy Williams. Those are his best.
by wilddre22 on Jul 17, 2010 5:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Guy was a loud mouth diva for sure...
But no one ever questioned his effort on the field. Gotta give props where props is due.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 19, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Man, there's some good stuff
in there.
“A Lifetime of Memories.”
Don’t miss it BBVers
(File under shameless plug.)
Thanks, George
Did you get your copy yet? If not, it should be en route.
by Ed Valentine on Jul 17, 2010 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions
my memories
McConkey never dropped a ball. Never muffed a punt. Never tried to field one he shouldn’t have. Knew when to let them go untouched, when to catch them. When to call the fair catch. No mistakes, the perfect Parcells player. No return ability, but we liked to move only 4 yards at a time back then.
Calloway was a good player. Unfortunately, since I was there, I will remember the onside kick against Minnesota in the playoffs. Not his fault, the luck of the bounce, but I remember seeing it bounce to him and then away.
Shockey always played hard. Talked too much, but on any other team he would have had more catches. And at least he got us a 2nd round pick in return.
McConkey was a great friend of a work colleague
of mine back in the day. The colleague spoke highly of his character. The colleague’s son hired Phil to work off season with one of the investment banks (Goldman or JP Morgan, I think.) Before McConkey’s time, when even star players needed a job off season, a lot of Giants’ players hooked up with Wall Street firms and many made a career of it . Today, it would be hard to believe a guy with Phil’s sterling qualities would rub elbows with the banksters, but things were different then, or at least i think they were. If they weren’t, fraud wasn’t as pervasive or obvious as it is today.
Shockey
He personifies the era of in your face celebratory nonsense that is in almost all of sports these days. I prefer the old school “act like you’ve been there before” type. So he bothers me, always did.
Screw the numbers, I’ll take McConkey on my team any day over Shockey. He brought a gritty presence that is an essential element in team chemistry in the NFL.
But I understand that based on the numbers Shockey should get it.
Right on, brother.
I think your Old School attitude isn’t representative of BBV majority opinion.
There has to be someone else.
The Giants were a better team without Shockey then they were with him. I’ll take Boss any day over Shockey. Yeah Shockey caught a lot of balls but was that a good thing? In my opinion it was not. You throw an 8 yard pass to Shockey.. you get 8 yards. You throw the same ball to a WR and you generally get a much better result. When the Giants were no longer forced to feed shockey (because of his mouth and contract) the WRs really blossomed. The only positive memorable play I can remember of shockeys was his trampling a Colts safety. Memories of drops, penalties and sheer stupidity crowd out the positive stuff, including his droping an easy TD pass that would have iced the 49ers playoff collapse. Yes Shockey has the stats. In my opinion all the negatives outweigh his stats. Pick someone who was actually of value to his team.
Early on
I think we all loved Shockey’s enthusiasm, fearlessness, and lack of regard for his body in challenging opposing defenses. But the injuries mounted up, frustrating the team and the player. He began to gripe about the lack of throws to him, and his antics of head shaking and arm waving in disgust after he didn’t get the ball were showing up his young QB.
Then he realized the Giants viewed the TE position as a block first position and they weren’t going to deviate very much from that plan in order to accommodate his skills as a pass catcher. The team/player relationship devolved to his non invitation to be with the team at the Super Bowl, and the relationship was irreparable at that point IMO.
All in all, I’m glad he’s gone from the Giants, in spite of his considerable skills.
Shockey was mismanaged
First of all, Ed made the right choice with Jeremy Shockey.
Second, the failure of Jeremy Shockey was a failure of Tom Coughlin and his staff. Coughlin is too rigid to conceive of the fact that Shockey needed a different structure than other players because Shockey was different. Nobody wanted to win more than Shockey. He failed in NY because he was wasted by the coaches and not given the direction that he needed. If you want evidence of how to manage a Shockey, think about how Bill Parcells managed LT and Keyshawn Johnson. Do you think for a second that Parcells would have wasted this guy 1 on 1 in blocking duty when he would have drawn a crowd of 2 (or 3) in routes? Parcells would have laid down the law with Shockey and told him to celebrate touchdowns, not first downs. He’d make a deal with him and tell him that it is his job to take care of his body, and in return for his health and his behavior, he’d get him the damn ball. A lot.
Amidst Shockey’s slide, I once heard a quote from this alpha-male which showed the insanity of his thinking: (paraphrased)“you’re not playing hard enough if you’re not playing hurt.” This guy was a pea brain allright. It is up to coaches to redirect that thinking and make a system of rewards for someone with his immense talent. He underachieved because he was mismanaged.
Third, the reason why Boss does so much better than Shockey within Coughlin’s style is because Boss has less talent and is willing to accept whatever role he is told to play. The truth of that matter is even Mark Bavaro has been quoted in the papers as being quizzical as to why Boss does not see DOUBLE the production. YES- as so many here have stated… the Neanderthal wasting of the Tight End asset, be it Shockey OR Boss. The only difference is that Boss keeps quiet and is a good soldier. Shockey knew the truth and got agitated. If Shockey had a Parcells-type of coach he could have gone to the Hall of Fame. Pound for pound, this player was the best talent the Giants drafted since LT. What a waste.
Fourth, don’t go blaming Shockey for the SF loss. The game was 38-14, and if F***el had any balls, the offense would have scored another 14 or 21 points to “ice” the game. Instead, he went into the ‘prevent’ offense and left the (Kenny Holmes injury, no DL) defense to be hung out to dry.
good write up Andy
I find it puzzling how whenever there’s a player/team dispute, the fans rally around the organization. There are always 2 sides to every story, but that usually gets lost in the sauce.
Shockey was not used correctly with TC, maybe because he has a steadfastness to him. But great coaches take the tools given to them and make the system based around the players, not the other way around. I always think of pat Riley in this situation. When he had magic and worthy and kareem, it was showtime. When he had Pat ewing, and oak, and mason, it was beat you up ball. When he had shaq and d. Wade, it was the 2 man game. Its called adaptation. TC never adapted to the fact that he had a tight end that should have been in the slot as much as he was in the 3 point stance. That’s a negative on the coach, and his philosophy.
by wilddre22 on Jul 17, 2010 5:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Player/Team dispute
Most fans are loyal to the jersey.
I root for the giants because my parents do and their parents did and their parents and so on. I don’t root for the player cuz of who they are, I root for them because of who they represent.
When a player disrespects the jersey he wears and the organization by extension, well than I lose my respect for them (barring a real injustice). Considering that the Giants are one of the classiest organizations in football, it’s easy to take their side over a prima donna (even a talented one at that).
Against all odds, against all circumstance were you don't have a shot, you succeed
-Michael Strahan
All you hear about is the past, the past... the past is the !@#$ing past, this is the present.
THIS IS TEMPORARY! A CHAMPIONSHIP IS PERMANENT
-Same as above
good write up Andy
I find it puzzling how whenever there’s a player/team dispute, the fans rally around the organization. There are always 2 sides to every story, but that usually gets lost in the sauce.
Shockey was not used correctly with TC, maybe because he has a steadfastness to him. But great coaches take the tools given to them and make the system based around the players, not the other way around. I always think of pat Riley in this situation. When he had magic and worthy and kareem, it was showtime. When he had Pat ewing, and oak, and mason, it was beat you up ball. When he had shaq and d. Wade, it was the 2 man game. Its called adaptation. TC never adapted to the fact that he had a tight end that should have been in the slot as much as he was in the 3 point stance. That’s a negative on the coach, and his philosophy.
by wilddre22 on Jul 17, 2010 5:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
1) I agree Parcells might have been able to deal with Shockey better than Coughlin. However Parcells was also one not tolerant of on-field mistakes so Shockey’s tenure with the Giants may have been even shorter then it was under Coughlin.
2) I agree the Giants are under-using the TE position at this time.
3) I can not agree with your assessment of Shockey’s talent. When he first came into the league he sure seemed like he was going to be great, but for most of his career he has just been OK. Whether that’s injuries, mismanagement, or whatever I have no idea. All I know is when he gets the ball he rarely does much with it anymore.
4) I am not blaming Shockey for that loss. I am simply stating that for me there were so many negative plays those are what stick in my memory about the guy.
by your assessment
Tight ends should never get balls thrown there way. Shannon Sharpe, Tony G, Dallas Clark, Jason witten…all are hurting there team, correct? All are detrimental to there team winning, and moving the sticks? What wide receivers did Shockey hold back? Amani toomer put up the same numbers before and during shockeys tenure. Plax put up plax numbers with shockey there. As a matter of fact, your assessment is off. If anything, it makes the wideouts better, as teams can’t freely roll there safeties over to double team the wideouts with another dangerous weapon on the field.
See this is when the not so nice wilddre comes out. When the bashing becomes the point of it, not to make an intelligent argument, but just to bash and pile on to the rest of the negativity. Something btw, ed asked you all not to do! As he did during the osi number, but I stayed quiet on that one. But I’m not on this one.
If your argument is intelligent, then fine, make it. But the ludicrous statements you made, deserved to be called out on the carpet.
by wilddre22 on Jul 17, 2010 5:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No, teams should use their tight ends. The TEs role is to force the D to cover the whole field, to make sure there’s room for your WRs to get open. Getting 60+ catches a year is a good use of the TE. I don’t believe Shockey’s after-catch abilities warranted him getting more touches. But Shockey wasn’t happy with 60+ catches a year. He wanted more. Why he wanted more is a matter of opinion. My opinion would be his love of personal accomplishments. TEs demanding the ball and going into onfield histrionics and whining to the media just isn’t good for your team. In my opinion the Giants forced balls to Shockey for non-football reasons which just isn’t the best for the offense. I am not saying Shockey was holding anyone back but rather the offense functioned better when no one had to get the ball. Boss took over Shockey’s job in name but Steve Smith got the catches that would have gone to Shockey.
Shockey
You’re wrong about only 8 yards if that’s wear he caught the ball. Especially in his first (and best) season he was always a threat to break away from tacklers, and was known for that in highlight films. Maybe he didn’t do it as much later, but he always fought for his yards.
In the San Francisco play-off game he jumped up to get that TD pass, and it went off of his fingers. The ball was thrown high, and was not an easy catch. He should not be faulted for it.
What he should be faulted for was his attitude the last two years with the team. That the Giants didn’t throw him the ball enough was true, as it has been and is now with their tight ends, but he made a real pest of himself about it, bearing down on Eli Manning and the coaches. Also, he told Visanthe Shiancoe not to leave the team, that he could take over as #1 tight end after he (Shockey) was gone, maybe by the next season. I guess he could feel that the Giants were fed up with him, and he was right, but it took his broken leg (and the realization that the Giants were actually a better without him, in addition to Kevin Boss’s emergence) to finally sever the tie. A team player in a team sport he was not.
my 2 cents
I am SO sorry I got to this discussion late. As some may know, shockey is one of my favorite Giants of all time. And to sit here and watch the bashing once again, its maddening. Only because I know that every Sunday he put on that blue helmet, he was willing give all his blood, and sweat for us, and this is how we thank him. Ill save the negativity for another day. Instead, ill go head and tell you why shockey EASILY is the best to wear the number.
Forget the numbers; they speak for themselves, and if not for injury and TC’s fool hearty approach to using his tight ends, would be even more superior. That is not why I fell in love with number 80. It was the fact that when he got a 1st down, and moved the chains for US, he was gonna let the other team know about it. It was for the fact that when guys tackled him, and lingered on top of him, taking there sweet time to get up, he flung them asunder, and dared them to say anything about it. It was for the fact that when our team needed a first down against the eagles, helmet or no helmet, Jeremy shockey’s getting that gat damn first down.
He bought us passion every Sunday. He desired nothing more than victory, and if we didn’t get it, he was pissed, as we complain daily that our players in any sport aren’t. ‘Why is such and such laughing in the dugout or chopping it up with the other team on the court when were getting blown out?’
That wasn’t shockey. When we lost he was mad, and you can quote him on it. Is that a negative? No. That’s what I want out of my ballplayers.
Was his injuries a negative? No. He was oft injured BECAUSE he went out there and tried to bully foot the enemy every down. He desired contact. He loved it.
So am I to assume that we wanted a player who shied away from contact and didn’t get in the enemies face whenever necessary? No sir. Not me. That’s pussy talk that I’m hearing. This is football, the manliest of games. I need men to play for the teams that I root for. And shockey was a man.
Did shockey have warts? Sure, don’t you? Tiki the golden boy sure did. But no ones perfect, not even 80. But ill tell you this, and you can scream bloody murder at the top of your lungs if you’d like. JEREMY SHOCKEY IS THE BEST GIANTS TIGHT END. EVER. Quote me on it. He made Eli a better quarterback by toughening him up, and oh by the way, by being a helluva target for Eli to have for some years. And if you don’t think he contributed to our latest ring, your a new fool.
I watched shockey go up with his team during the espy’s last week to accept the team of the year award, and I smiled. Coming off his SECOND ring, and being on a team that truly appreciates him, and a fanbase that loves his brashness, and winning attitude, made me happy for him. Happy for a man who left everything on the field, for a fanbase who could mostly care less.
by wilddre22 on Jul 17, 2010 5:51 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
my 2 cents
I am SO sorry I got to this discussion late. As some may know, shockey is one of my favorite Giants of all time. And to sit here and watch the bashing once again, its maddening. Only because I know that every Sunday he put on that blue helmet, he was willing give all his blood, and sweat for us, and this is how we thank him. Ill save the negativity for another day. Instead, ill go head and tell you why shockey EASILY is the best to wear the number.
Forget the numbers; they speak for themselves, and if not for injury and TC’s fool hearty approach to using his tight ends, would be even more superior. That is not why I fell in love with number 80. It was the fact that when he got a 1st down, and moved the chains for US, he was gonna let the other team know about it. It was for the fact that when guys tackled him, and lingered on top of him, taking there sweet time to get up, he flung them asunder, and dared them to say anything about it. It was for the fact that when our team needed a first down against the eagles, helmet or no helmet, Jeremy shockey’s getting that gat damn first down.
He bought us passion every Sunday. He desired nothing more than victory, and if we didn’t get it, he was pissed, as we complain daily that our players in any sport aren’t. ‘Why is such and such laughing in the dugout or chopping it up with the other team on the court when were getting blown out?’
That wasn’t shockey. When we lost he was mad, and you can quote him on it. Is that a negative? No. That’s what I want out of my ballplayers.
Was his injuries a negative? No. He was oft injured BECAUSE he went out there and tried to bully foot the enemy every down. He desired contact. He loved it.
So am I to assume that we wanted a player who shied away from contact and didn’t get in the enemies face whenever necessary? No sir. Not me. That’s pussy talk that I’m hearing. This is football, the manliest of games. I need men to play for the teams that I root for. And shockey was a man.
Did shockey have warts? Sure, don’t you? Tiki the golden boy sure did. But no ones perfect, not even 80. But ill tell you this, and you can scream bloody murder at the top of your lungs if you’d like. JEREMY SHOCKEY IS THE BEST GIANTS TIGHT END. EVER. Quote me on it. He made Eli a better quarterback by toughening him up, and oh by the way, by being a helluva target for Eli to have for some years. And if you don’t think he contributed to our latest ring, your a new fool.
I watched shockey go up with his team during the espy’s last week to accept the team of the year award, and I smiled. Coming off his SECOND ring, and being on a team that truly appreciates him, and a fanbase that loves his brashness, and winning attitude, made me happy for him. Happy for a man who left everything on the field, for a fanbase who could mostly care less.
by wilddre22 on Jul 17, 2010 5:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
my 2 cents
I am SO sorry I got to this discussion late. As some may know, shockey is one of my favorite Giants of all time. And to sit here and watch the bashing once again, its maddening. Only because I know that every Sunday he put on that blue helmet, he was willing give all his blood, and sweat for us, and this is how we thank him. Ill save the negativity for another day. Instead, ill go head and tell you why shockey EASILY is the best to wear the number.
Forget the numbers; they speak for themselves, and if not for injury and TC’s fool hearty approach to using his tight ends, would be even more superior. That is not why I fell in love with number 80. It was the fact that when he got a 1st down, and moved the chains for US, he was gonna let the other team know about it. It was for the fact that when guys tackled him, and lingered on top of him, taking there sweet time to get up, he flung them asunder, and dared them to say anything about it. It was for the fact that when our team needed a first down against the eagles, helmet or no helmet, Jeremy shockey’s getting that gat damn first down.
He bought us passion every Sunday. He desired nothing more than victory, and if we didn’t get it, he was pissed, as we complain daily that our players in any sport aren’t. ‘Why is such and such laughing in the dugout or chopping it up with the other team on the court when were getting blown out?’
That wasn’t shockey. When we lost he was mad, and you can quote him on it. Is that a negative? No. That’s what I want out of my ballplayers.
Was his injuries a negative? No. He was oft injured BECAUSE he went out there and tried to bully foot the enemy every down. He desired contact. He loved it.
So am I to assume that we wanted a player who shied away from contact and didn’t get in the enemies face whenever necessary? No sir. Not me. That’s pussy talk that I’m hearing. This is football, the manliest of games. I need men to play for the teams that I root for. And shockey was a man.
Did shockey have warts? Sure, don’t you? Tiki the golden boy sure did. But no ones perfect, not even 80. But ill tell you this, and you can scream bloody murder at the top of your lungs if you’d like. JEREMY SHOCKEY IS THE BEST GIANTS TIGHT END. EVER. Quote me on it. He made Eli a better quarterback by toughening him up, and oh by the way, by being a helluva target for Eli to have for some years. And if you don’t think he contributed to our latest ring, your a new fool.
I watched shockey go up with his team during the espy’s last week to accept the team of the year award, and I smiled. Coming off his SECOND ring, and being on a team that truly appreciates him, and a fanbase that loves his brashness, and winning attitude, made me happy for him. Happy for a man who left everything on the field, for a fanbase who could mostly care less.
by wilddre22 on Jul 17, 2010 5:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
my 2 cents
I am SO sorry I got to this discussion late. As some may know, shockey is one of my favorite Giants of all time. And to sit here and watch the bashing once again, its maddening. Only because I know that every Sunday he put on that blue helmet, he was willing give all his blood, and sweat for us, and this is how we thank him. Ill save the negativity for another day. Instead, ill go head and tell you why shockey EASILY is the best to wear the number.
Forget the numbers; they speak for themselves, and if not for injury and TC’s fool hearty approach to using his tight ends, would be even more superior. That is not why I fell in love with number 80. It was the fact that when he got a 1st down, and moved the chains for US, he was gonna let the other team know about it. It was for the fact that when guys tackled him, and lingered on top of him, taking there sweet time to get up, he flung them asunder, and dared them to say anything about it. It was for the fact that when our team needed a first down against the eagles, helmet or no helmet, Jeremy shockey’s getting that gat damn first down.
He bought us passion every Sunday. He desired nothing more than victory, and if we didn’t get it, he was pissed, as we complain daily that our players in any sport aren’t. ‘Why is such and such laughing in the dugout or chopping it up with the other team on the court when were getting blown out?’
That wasn’t shockey. When we lost he was mad, and you can quote him on it. Is that a negative? No. That’s what I want out of my ballplayers.
Was his injuries a negative? No. He was oft injured BECAUSE he went out there and tried to bully foot the enemy every down. He desired contact. He loved it.
So am I to assume that we wanted a player who shied away from contact and didn’t get in the enemies face whenever necessary? No sir. Not me. That’s pussy talk that I’m hearing. This is football, the manliest of games. I need men to play for the teams that I root for. And shockey was a man.
Did shockey have warts? Sure, don’t you? Tiki the golden boy sure did. But no ones perfect, not even 80. But ill tell you this, and you can scream bloody murder at the top of your lungs if you’d like. JEREMY SHOCKEY IS THE BEST GIANTS TIGHT END. EVER. Quote me on it. He made Eli a better quarterback by toughening him up, and oh by the way, by being a helluva target for Eli to have for some years. And if you don’t think he contributed to our latest ring, your a new fool.
I watched shockey go up with his team during the espy’s last week to accept the team of the year award, and I smiled. Coming off his SECOND ring, and being on a team that truly appreciates him, and a fanbase that loves his brashness, and winning attitude, made me happy for him. Happy for a man who left everything on the field, for a fanbase who could mostly care less.
by wilddre22 on Jul 17, 2010 5:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
my 2 cents
I am SO sorry I got to this discussion late. As some may know, shockey is one of my favorite Giants of all time. And to sit here and watch the bashing once again, its maddening. Only because I know that every Sunday he put on that blue helmet, he was willing give all his blood, and sweat for us, and this is how we thank him. Ill save the negativity for another day. Instead, ill go head and tell you why shockey EASILY is the best to wear the number.
Forget the numbers; they speak for themselves, and if not for injury and TC’s fool hearty approach to using his tight ends, would be even more superior. That is not why I fell in love with number 80. It was the fact that when he got a 1st down, and moved the chains for US, he was gonna let the other team know about it. It was for the fact that when guys tackled him, and lingered on top of him, taking there sweet time to get up, he flung them asunder, and dared them to say anything about it. It was for the fact that when our team needed a first down against the eagles, helmet or no helmet, Jeremy shockey’s getting that gat damn first down.
He bought us passion every Sunday. He desired nothing more than victory, and if we didn’t get it, he was pissed, as we complain daily that our players in any sport aren’t. ‘Why is such and such laughing in the dugout or chopping it up with the other team on the court when were getting blown out?’
That wasn’t shockey. When we lost he was mad, and you can quote him on it. Is that a negative? No. That’s what I want out of my ballplayers.
Was his injuries a negative? No. He was oft injured BECAUSE he went out there and tried to bully foot the enemy every down. He desired contact. He loved it.
So am I to assume that we wanted a player who shied away from contact and didn’t get in the enemies face whenever necessary? No sir. Not me. That’s pussy talk that I’m hearing. This is football, the manliest of games. I need men to play for the teams that I root for. And shockey was a man.
Did shockey have warts? Sure, don’t you? Tiki the golden boy sure did. But no ones perfect, not even 80. But ill tell you this, and you can scream bloody murder at the top of your lungs if you’d like. JEREMY SHOCKEY IS THE BEST GIANTS TIGHT END. EVER. Quote me on it. He made Eli a better quarterback by toughening him up, and oh by the way, by being a helluva target for Eli to have for some years. And if you don’t think he contributed to our latest ring, your a new fool.
I watched shockey go up with his team during the espy’s last week to accept the team of the year award, and I smiled. Coming off his SECOND ring, and being on a team that truly appreciates him, and a fanbase that loves his brashness, and winning attitude, made me happy for him. Happy for a man who left everything on the field, for a fanbase who could mostly care less.
by wilddre22 on Jul 17, 2010 5:55 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
my 2 cents
I am SO sorry I got to this discussion late. As some may know, shockey is one of my favorite Giants of all time. And to sit here and watch the bashing once again, its maddening. Only because I know that every Sunday he put on that blue helmet, he was willing give all his blood, and sweat for us, and this is how we thank him. Ill save the negativity for another day. Instead, ill go head and tell you why shockey EASILY is the best to wear the number.
Forget the numbers; they speak for themselves, and if not for injury and TC’s fool hearty approach to using his tight ends, would be even more superior. That is not why I fell in love with number 80. It was the fact that when he got a 1st down, and moved the chains for US, he was gonna let the other team know about it. It was for the fact that when guys tackled him, and lingered on top of him, taking there sweet time to get up, he flung them asunder, and dared them to say anything about it. It was for the fact that when our team needed a first down against the eagles, helmet or no helmet, Jeremy shockey’s getting that gat damn first down.
He bought us passion every Sunday. He desired nothing more than victory, and if we didn’t get it, he was pissed, as we complain daily that our players in any sport aren’t. ‘Why is such and such laughing in the dugout or chopping it up with the other team on the court when were getting blown out?’
That wasn’t shockey. When we lost he was mad, and you can quote him on it. Is that a negative? No. That’s what I want out of my ballplayers.
Was his injuries a negative? No. He was oft injured BECAUSE he went out there and tried to bully foot the enemy every down. He desired contact. He loved it.
So am I to assume that we wanted a player who shied away from contact and didn’t get in the enemies face whenever necessary? No sir. Not me. That’s pussy talk that I’m hearing. This is football, the manliest of games. I need men to play for the teams that I root for. And shockey was a man.
Did shockey have warts? Sure, don’t you? Tiki the golden boy sure did. But no ones perfect, not even 80. But ill tell you this, and you can scream bloody murder at the top of your lungs if you’d like. JEREMY SHOCKEY IS THE BEST GIANTS TIGHT END. EVER. Quote me on it. He made Eli a better quarterback by toughening him up, and oh by the way, by being a helluva target for Eli to have for some years. And if you don’t think he contributed to our latest ring, your a new fool.
I watched shockey go up with his team during the espy’s last week to accept the team of the year award, and I smiled. Coming off his SECOND ring, and being on a team that truly appreciates him, and a fanbase that loves his brashness, and winning attitude, made me happy for him. Happy for a man who left everything on the field, for a fanbase who could mostly care less.
by wilddre22 on Jul 17, 2010 5:55 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
WOW, my bad fellas!
that’s what i get for trying to get into a BBV discussion from the woods of Wenonah, NJ.
Thanks for the $0.12.
If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.
There should be a way of stuffing 10 cents change back to you after you gave your 2 cents.
Also, please look up Mark Bavaro.
Don't have to
I know exactly who he is, and watched him for his entire brilliant career. But I stand by my statement…while Bavaro’s best season is better than any of Shockeys, he really only had a 3 year window of production. the rest of his career was avg. to sub par seasons, from a TE’s perspective. And i’m taking into account that his era was not the era of tight ends, as it is now. Shockey however, has consistently put up 50+ catches and 6-800 yards every year, for the majority of his career. and while we love the romanticized memories of Bavaro running with whole teams on his back, the reality is that Shockey, for his career, is better overall and a better Giant. there’s no denying it; numbers, and my memory don’t lie.
I think we all like to look at the olden days, and wax poetic about it. babe ruth is better than this guy, wilt is better than shaq, bavaro is better than Shock. i’ll choose to heed the words of my deceased pop pop, who was on here for 80+ glorious years, and said to me “these young guys would kill the guys from my day. there stronger, and faster, and bigger.” we all like to say they don’t make blank like they used to in my day. Shit i’m 30 something and i’m starting to say that(old foggie i am). the truth is, sometimes that’s not true.
so, while we all love Mahk Bavahro, and he is still my favorite guy ever from Mass., Shockey is clearly, and EASILY, better.
Yesterday and Today
Of course todays best players would be better than the best of yesteryears. They would tend to be stronger, faster, and had been better nourished, trained and coached. They could also be “smarter” players if only because they had the benefit of learning from the experiences of older players in their positions and benefiting from their techniques.
Would Andy Robustelli and Roosevelt Brown still make the Hall of Fame if their 22 year old selves could be time warped and start their careers today? Probably not considering their playing weights and the training procedures that they grew up with, but I’ll bet they would learn fast if they still wanted to play, and they’d still do very well. If they both were born much later, and were 22 year old rookies at this training camp, I’d think they would still stand out from the crowd and have great careers, giving up whatever 50+ years / two generations plus of “human evolution” might have done for the other rookies.
Since time machines don’t exist, and considering if Babe Ruth would still be so great hitting against Roger Clemons and then Mariano Rivera in bigger ballparks during night games will always be bullshit, you have to simply consider only how players played against the competition they played against. There’s no other choice. You might argue about sadly shortened careers, their performance in big games they had the privilege of appearing in, or considering careers that didn’t overlap for that many years, but that’s it.
Mark Bavaro didn’t play in the “olden days”, and wasn’t drafted even a full generation before Shockey; his career is still clear in most Giant fans memories. He had better career statistics than Shockey, and was undoubtedly a more important player to the Giant teams he played on.
If Mark Bavaro also wore #80, the number would be his.
Statistics
After comparing Bavaro’s and Shockey’s statistics for another Giant number, I honestly have to admit that Shockey has better numbers overall.
I now think that if Bavaro also wore #80, as I joked in my last sentence of my previous entry, he should share it with Shockey. I still think Bavaro was the better TE, was more important to the Giants, and that of course he’ll have his own number coming up, #89.
He was, clearly IMO,
the best Giants TE ever. Devastating blocker. Great hands. Could get downfield. Harder to stop than Shock. Much harder, and Shock didn’t go down easily. Ttotal opposites in terms of personality, though.
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