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New York Giants News & Notes: Ramses the First

Despite being the fourth player picked by the Giants in the 2009 draft, Ramses Barden was possibly the most talked about and hyped prospect at last years off season training camp. A physical freak with the name of a Pharoah, he wowed onlookers with his size and raw physical ability, and made a number of remarkable catches that had fans salivating at the thought of Eli lobbing passes to him in the end zone. Then, the regular season happened, and Barden only caught one pass for 16 yards in the three games that he played. Reality set in for the 3rd round pick out of the small school, who had trouble understanding the Giants play schemes and keeping up with the pace of the NFL, and his name has slipped off the radar a bit.

Ralph Vachianno profiles Barden, and the outlook is pretty good: "Maybe it'll all turn out to be a big tease again, but there does seem to be a genuine excitement about what Barden may be able to do for the Giants this season. Heading into their full-team minicamp this week, he has drawn nothing but praise from the coaching staff for how far he's come during the offseason program. And he's back to making his usual dazzling plays on the field.

The difference this time is that, according to Barden, things are happening more slowly for him. Last year he relied almost exclusively on his size and his athletic ability. This spring he's played with a better understanding of what's happening around him on the field."

If it's true that Barden is ready to play in an NFL offense, the Giants should be more loaded at the wide receiver position than at any point in franchise history, and would have to be ranked towards the top of the league in terms of receiving talent. Steve Smith has established himself as a star who will make every big catch, but he lacks the after-the-catch explosiveness that keeps a defense on its toes. For that, though, there's Mario Manningham, who is prone to drops but is explosive with the ball. As a rookie, Hakeem Nicks looked like he was well on his way to become the best all around receiver on the team, with a healthy mix of good hands and great after the catch ability, with some size thrown in. And then there's Barden, who has the physical skills to instantly become one of the premier red zone threats in the NFL. Of course there's also Domenik Hixon, who a year ago was supposed to be the Giants #1 receiver. Football is played on the field for a reason, and the Giants are going to need the defense and the run game to rebound to be legitimate contenders, but on paper, that at the very least looks like a receiving corps that's going to be very, very fun to watch.

Star-divide

  • Paul Schwartz of the NY Post profiles the perpetual Manning backup, Jim Sorgi
  • Ed's radio partner and writer at InsideFootball, Pat Traina, writes that there's "no doubting Terrell Thomas."
  • Michael Eisen writes about the Giants two new position coaches
  • Vinny DiTrani previews the NFC East
  • The NY Post reports that adultery-supporting "dating website" AshleyMadison has offered $25 million over 5 years for the naming rights to the New Giants Stadium. Personally, I think this is a publicity stunt non-story. I think there's literally no chance that the Giants & Jets would accept this offer, even if it was the best offer out there (which it likely won't be), but the website new the press would pick this up and give them some free advertising. That said, it's in the news, and I think it's a funny/sad commentary on American society, both that this website exists and that naming rights to a stadium have become such a big deal.
  • Finally, FromtheRumbleSeat is in round 2 of its "Best Sport City" tournament, and New York is facing off against Dallas. Once again, I'm not necessarily suggesting we spam their poll, but let's be honest, there's NO WAY New York should lose to Dallas. So do your patriotic duty and vote so those heathen Cowboy fans won't have anything to hold over our heads.

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I really hope the Giants aren't going back primarily run oriented team

that’d be a waste.

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 14, 2010 12:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

But, they have to be more effective when they do run than they were in 2009.

by Ed Valentine on Jun 14, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

true.

I’d be “disappointed” to see 2 1000yd backs, but if they could both get ~800-900, but still >4.0 yds per carry, that’d be nice

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 14, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's Remember

that the Giants have to have that mix as they’re not good enough to pass on people at will ala the Saints, Colts…etc. The WR crew comes together and makes the same progress as last year then I could be wrong.

I dont’ think the line has the youth to push as they did in the past.

I really hope to see Bradshaw gettnig more catches out of the backfield. We haven’t seen this since Tiki

by The Curse on Jun 14, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

They need...

to be much better. I believe that Eli has his best games when he is able to pass off good playaction schemes. Unfortunately, the running game needs to improve in order for the playaction to be effective. Smith, Manningham, Nicks, Barden, Hixon, Boss, Beckham, et al, comprise a very dangerous arsenal for an air attack. I think a well balanced offense will have us top 5-10 in league.

by CCE718 on Jun 14, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think a big part of our success in '10

is gonna fall on the big guys shoulders. Jacobs was a shell of himself last year, and he’s not the kind of guy that takes all of this criticism lightly. He’s definitely racking up the miles, especially brutal and impacting miles at that, but he has plenty of gas left in the tank to make a big difference for several years.

I hated how Prisco called him the most overrated player in the NFL, because at this point nobody is overating him. If we can lighten the load a bit and keep a fresh stable of healthy RBs, Jake can be the punishing battering ram we know and love him for and keep defenses honest, while slamming in 10+ TDs in the red zone or dreaded “green zone”.

- Mohamed Sanu: A Giant in Two Years-

by RealLT on Jun 14, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lots to look forward to, including

some interesting deals involving some Giants receivers? So long, Sinorice, it’s been good to know ya.

by blue gonz on Jun 14, 2010 1:00 PM EDT reply actions  

I WANNA BELIEVE

But what I can’t take is another year of getting excited about RB and then him not getting on the field. I like others get excited when they hear about this big physical thoroughbred who’s dominating camp. Then just about the time we are getting visions of TO or BMarshall dancing around in our dreams we see his name on the inactive list on game day. I did love reading the article about him working with SS and Eli this offseason. That should atleast get him dressed this year. Now we just gotta see if he’s really getting it. I can’t help but wonder though…if he was really that good how could the Gmen not atleast dress him most games last year. Can’t be that he doesn’t understand the game…I mean they let MM play

by Eli10 on Jun 14, 2010 1:01 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I like all these articles lately....

saying how Ramses is more polished, and he’s working harder, and he’s more dedicated….and trying to come up w/ all these reasons on why he didn’t play last year…..

the guy is the very same guy he was when he walked in here day 1….

He hasn’t started working harder recently….and he isn’t more dedicated….because he’s been dedicated and working hard since day 1.

I swear it’s getting to be like a cult following with this kid….Giants just need to get him out there already so I don’t have to read any more articles…..

"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708

by andiamo708 on Jun 14, 2010 1:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Have you been at practice?

There were lots of questions about some of his work habits last season. Coming from a small place he had a lot to learn about what it took to be an NFL player.

by Ed Valentine on Jun 14, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope...just camp....

I know that there have been questions about his work habits….and I think they’re all unwarranted.

if you have any evidence to say other wise I would love to hear it because everything that i have heard, seen, and read from Ramses up until and including now has been positive.

If it’s a matter of not learning the play book fine, (it’s not like Manningham is not part of the team) But what is with this lack of effort and work habits??? And if that really is the case why doesn’t TC come out and put this kid on notice….if he ain’t doing what he’s supposed to be than someone should tell him….like yesterday.

"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708

by andiamo708 on Jun 14, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have one issue regarding the WR corp...

Not really with the corp, its going to be maybe the best we have ever had. But answer me this…..

There is only one ball. What is the point of having all those guys when the teams return game/specials absolutely suck? And don’t give me the “Hixson is the man” thing. He is average at best.

I understand keeping Barden last year as a developmental prospect. But if Barden gets no playing time this year, then I will never understand keeping him on the roster when we could use that roster spot for a PURE returner. Hey, Moss and Barden contributed absolutely nothing to this team in any phase last year, few teams can afford that.

For me, I would have dealt Manningham in the offseason to improve our specials/returns. He’s a guy with potential, fairly young and thus we he has value in a trade, but I am not about WR’s that get open then drop the ball, or run out of bounds or whatever… I think Nicks is going to be a star, Smith is already a star. I think we could have given up some there to make another area better.

by dubsrub on Jun 14, 2010 2:26 PM EDT reply actions  

If last season has taught us anything, injuries happen

Let’s let the players play sort out who is playing what and when.

by Late for Dinner on Jun 14, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

100%

concur with you that there is a waste of space on the roster with some of these WRs. But, I think Hixon should be the first to go. He is a slightly above average returner, who is an inconsistent WR. Mannigham was hurt his rookie year, so this past year was his first real year of playing time. I am willing to overlook some of the drops and brain farts. I think he has some real talent that we should at least give another year. I think that a WR corps of Smith, Nicks, Manningham, Barden is going to be the best we’ve had. Another reason to hold onto a guy like Manningham, what if Smith or Nicks gets hurt?

by CCE718 on Jun 14, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree about Manningham...

It’s good to keep a guy on your roster who can make people miss, which is hard to do in the NFL. He juked a couple guys out of their socks last year. You gotta take the good with the bad in a player, and I think Manningham has a growing upside.

by WideRight! on Jun 15, 2010 6:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

no no, that dude named Moss needs to be the first to go

as a matter of fact if there was a depth chart for the who needs to go first position, he’s number one, two, three and four on it. As for the rest of our wideouts, i think they all now have a place on this team:

Nicks/Smith: it goes without saying that these guys belong, there our stars for years to come.

Manningham: He provides great depth if one of the top 2 get hurt. he showed that he can put up some numbers, and make some plays. if it wasn’t for the boneheadedness, he would’ve never lost his starting spot and probably would’ve touched 1000.

Ramses: Too much raw talent to even think of not being on the team. He is the JPP of the offense. i’ll eat my hat if he isn’t seeing significant snaps in the reg. season.

Hixon: I think unless we add some great return man to our team b/t now and Sept. 9th, Hixon isn’t going anywhere. I think you’re underestimating his return skills. i just rewatched that second game against the ’boys, his game clinching punt return was a thing of beauty.

Hagan: A good guy, for depth, and pretty good on special teams. Played the role of Tyree a cpl times last year.

Moss:…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

by wilddre22 on Jun 15, 2010 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

uhm

correct me if i’m wrong here: Hixon was 2nd in the NFC in kickoff ret yds and 2nd in the NFC in punt return ave w/ 1 TD. The only reason he didn’t rank higher in punt return yds is because he only had 17 returns and didn’t returns and didn’t qualify for that stat. Please explain how that is average at best.

by maculis on Jun 16, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

one ball

but 30-35 passes a game. So if Eli’s going good, he should be completing better then 20 passes a game, which he did plenty of times (and most likely would’ve done more if the Raiders, Bucs and Redskins mattered more enough in the 4th Q).

Also, Steve Smith caught 107 passes last year, so hopefully he gets that diminished by at least 20 or so, so there’s some more targets for the others.

One ball…plenty of passes. A WR averages 5 catches a game, that’s 80 catches per year.

Injuries, matchups, maybe Manningham’s still a bonehead, Nicks may have a soph slump. Lots of things can happen. Why trade depth before you even realize that you need it?

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit

by FreeBradshaw on Jun 14, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you on the not trading depth

This league is about how deep your talent level truly is when guys go down or don’t play well. This season I really believe the D-line and WR depth will have teams scrambling because the talent is there to dominate games at both positions. We can trade from that depth after they establish themselves and then get more in a trade for the 5th guy on the depth chart(Hixon) rather than trading a Manningham away before his talent fully matures.

Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...

by Major on Jun 14, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

First of all, I hear what your saying....

but trading Manningham for a Special Teams player is about as crazy as it gets.

second….we don’t know what we have with these young WR’s….yeah we know Smith is very dependable and reliable, but we also know Manningham is inconsistent, Nicks is injury prone, and Barden ain’t a special teams player….

it just sounds like you’ve already gone ahead and counted your chickens….which can be dangerous b/c I remember this time last year everyone calling our Defensive line the best in football….I doubt this time last year anyone could have imagined that we would end up drafting 2 Dlinemen with our first two draft picks….

"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708

by andiamo708 on Jun 14, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

More talk of trading Manningham

This time it’s for someone on special teams.

by GhostDini on Jun 14, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hixon ought to be a full time special teamer, returns and coverage

Its what he is best at, and when he did, the coverage and return teams were pretty good.

And as the 5th WR he is acceptable.

Its plenty of value for Hixon, and it upgrades a weak area.

Giants have had a reluctance to play rookie WRs and RBs since Parcells. Its not written in stone, but even a #1 like Hampton had to wait to get his shot.

Lets see what happens with Barden in first pre-season game. If he is buried again, we can grab the pitchforks and storm Albany!

by trueblue63 on Jun 14, 2010 4:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed 100%

Hixon is nothing more than a backup WR, but a really good kick returner. He showed it in ’08. Yea, he looked good over a few catches, but when it was time to really get busy he showed just why he was a backup all along……..it happens.

It’s too early to call Manningham anything, since last year was really his rookie year. Hakeem Nicks can’t be injury prone yet because, again, last year was his rookie year.

Although I was hoping some changes would be made on the O-line this offseason (bye to Seubert & McKenzie, moving Diehl to LG & giving Beatty a shot at LT), I’m not completely against it & just hope they’re healthy.

by Rev. Uniek on Jun 14, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Giants should use their strength

which is wr on offense, with the wr the giants have, they should pass more than run……..eli should be passing at least 25 to 30 a game

by Jermal on Jun 14, 2010 8:55 PM EDT reply actions  

IMO all of this wide receiver talk is predicated on this:

Our ability to run.
We shine within the play-action game, in part, because it is Eli’s strong suit, and, in part, because we have run effectively in the past. If we can’t move the ball on the ground, for whatever reason, our passing game will suffer.
 We could be an “establish the pass first so that we can run” team as opposed to an “establish the run first so that we can pass” team.
Either way, we still absolutely have to be successful when attempting to move the ball on the ground; if we’re not successful in that light, it may be pointless to have such talent at the wider receiver position.
Play calling quality, blocking quality, and passing/receiving quality all will be major factors.

We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.

by GAgiantfan on Jun 14, 2010 9:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Dollars-to-Donuts says Barden "positions" himself in the corner of the end zone

and catches jump balls!!!

Eli loftin a ball into the corner as he turns and looks at the ground he’s being drivin into isn’t the same thing. ( timing play…)

That needs to be a connection between the QB and receiver,

BUT how long do you have to work on one of THEE MOST SIMPLEST PLAYS
with a guy (Barden) who has a hugh advantage over even a 6’0 CB????

(unless of course you have a GENIUS offensive coordinator who doesn’t think
you can just throw the ball towards a taller receiver…. and have him catch the
 FUCKIN thing!!!!)

by NY17NE14 on Jun 14, 2010 9:46 PM EDT reply actions  

I was clamouringto see more of Ramses last year..

But I must admit…I admire the patience and pace the Giants have afforded him..I think he will be a huge weapon on offense for us this year..The group we were most concerned about (receivers)..turned out to be the least of our worries..throw in an educated Barden this year?..damn

"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"

by Bobbiblue on Jun 15, 2010 3:16 AM EDT reply actions  

Yes, kast year we worried about the receivers and it turned out we needn't have.

This year, It’s the D, especially the DB and DL. I think we’re all set with the DB and should be with the DL as well.

by blue gonz on Jun 15, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

i just can't wait to spring him on the rest of the BEast

maybe we can have the rest of the NFL saying “Dez who?”

by wilddre22 on Jun 15, 2010 8:37 AM EDT reply actions  

What strikes me

Is the size of his hands. The NFL football looks like a mini kid’s ball in his mitts. I have high hopes for him, now he has to be given the opportunity and produce results.

by UnknownJintsFan on Jun 15, 2010 9:18 AM EDT reply actions  

I'd wager

that no team has ever drafted two wide receivers with hands as big as Nicks’ & Barden’s in the same draft before. Both of them are monstrous.

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Jun 15, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

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