New York Giants News & Notes: Coughlin on the Hot Seat?
by cjmulrain on May 31, 2010 8:21 AM EDT
in New York Giants News
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PrintIs coach Tom Coughlin back on the hot seat? If you believe former Giants linebacker Antoni Pierce, than yes, he is. Pierce makes some good points, and the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league, but unless the Giants have an awful season this year, I just can't see them firing Coughlin. They were patient with him a few years ago, when everyone was calling for his head, and he rewarded them with a Super Bowl team. If the Giants get off to another slow start, look for the "fire Coughlin" calls to start up again, but for right now I think he's still pretty safe.
One of the biggest topics of the offseason has been the status of Osi Umenyiora. Now that he's here to stay, the Giants are expecting big things out of him. I've been critical of Osi over the past couple of months, but he's still one of my favorite players and I'm really rooting for him to prove the doubters wrong this upcoming season. If Osi and Justin Tuck are both healthy and playing up to potential, the defense will be Super Bowl caliber again.
Giants fans have gotten pretty used to a starting offensive line that has remained pretty static over the past few years, with the same 5 guys starting 38 consecutive games prior to a few missed games in the middle of last season. There have been signs, however, that there might be an actual shakeup on the line this year. Offensive line coach Pat Flaherty says that nothing is concrete.
New QB coach (and former WR coach) Mike Sullivan faces a difficult task: trying to make a Pro Bowl/Super Bowl MVP even better. Sullivan did a great job with the receivers over the past few seasons, and Eli is a guy who seems willing to continue to learn, so this could be a great setup. I won't be upset if he just helps Eli maintain the level he's already at, because that's pretty darn good.
Speaking of Giants receivers, here's some more on second year receiver Ramses Barden. Considering how good the Giants receiving corps was last year, it's almost scary to think how good they could be if Barden has a breakout year. The defense and running game are key if the Giants want to win the Super Bowl, but even if they both stink, the passing game promises to be very entertaining.
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Flaherty does mean that aside from the All_Pros, nothing is contrete
right?
Is anyone waiting in the wings that’s better then Chris Snee and Shaun O’hara? There’s not many in the entire NFL better then these 2.
Sa da tey? OH, cole me down on the panny sty!
I agree
think they want to keep these guys on their “toes”, after last years’ debacle…I doubt he was
including those two, coach speak, nothing more.
His mother has a tattoo that reads, "Son".
"I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.
Stay thirsty my friends."
by Great Gatsby on May 31, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
McKenzie
If the Giants think he can last one more season I would expect they keep him at RT, insert Beatty at LT, move Diehl to LG and make Seubert a super sub.
Some feel Beatty goes to LT, Diehl goes to RT and moves McKenzie out. In 2011 Petrus moves Seubert to super sub.
Still others think the OL stays intact one more season and then Petrus moves to LG. Beatty to LT and Diehl to RT in 2011.
Option 2 looks pretty good.
That's what
I have been saying, regarding option 1…I don’t think option 2 is a good idea, Diehl has not played RT since his rookie year…Seubert (G/C), and Petrus at G, with either Boothe (if healthy)
or I guess Whimper if not, as backups at tackle.
His mother has a tattoo that reads, "Son".
"I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.
Stay thirsty my friends."
by Great Gatsby on May 31, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Option 2 is probably most likely
at least if Beatty wins his spot. Diehl hasn’t played RT, but he’s played LT all these years, so he’s more accustomed to the outside. RT is usually an easier, and more “power” position as well..where Diehl probably is better off anyway.
But it’ll be tough. Cuz McKenzie ain’t gonna go down without a fight. Either will Seubert.
Beatty’s not gonna be given the job, and if he’s starting at LT..you know he beat out Diehl’s best effort for the job.
As for Diehl at LG, I don’t think you’re gonna see it. He’s too tall for the Giants liking to be a OG.
Sa da tey? OH, cole me down on the panny sty!
by FreeBradshaw on May 31, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
All good
points, keep in mind the reason Diehl was moved to LT was because the G-Men
had enough of Luke (and his 25 penalties a year)…It was then Diehl was moved from
LG to LT, but they will all try to keep their current positions on that line.
His mother has a tattoo that reads, "Son".
"I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.
Stay thirsty my friends."
by Great Gatsby on May 31, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Osi's hip injury
I don’t understand the Giants. Honestly, I don’t. Osi should’ve had surgery on this thing years ago. Every season he tries to rehab it. Why didn’t he get the surgery two years ago along with the knee surgery? It’s not like he was going to miss extra time. He missed the entire season.
It’s like when Justin Tuck didn’t undergo surgery to repair his bone spurs – a minor procedure – and they flared up at the end of 2008. Brandon Jacobs could’ve had in-season surgery on his knee and come back but he tried to just rehab it. That was also the plan for Kenny Phillips. Just manage the pain. Thank God they stopped the insanity before the damage was beyond repair.
Going under the knife is not somthing most players want to do.
Thats why you see players trying to rehab the injury if they can.
by Late for Dinner on May 31, 2010 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
What is
wrong with Osi’s hip? I did not hear about that, guess been following baseball so much?
His mother has a tattoo that reads, "Son".
"I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.
Stay thirsty my friends."
by Great Gatsby on May 31, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Coughlin should get to stay the Giant coach as long as he wants
He pulled an absolute rabbit out of the hat a few years ago and his ability to adapt to his players is what made it possible. Unless he starts losing his mind, he should be able to retire from the Giants when he wants to.
I generally agree with that
with the caveat that they remain a competitive team as long as he’s coach. If they go like 2-14, then he’s gotta go.
2009 Did Not Happen
Coughlin is capable...
and deserves to choose his retirement date. A head coach is like a CEO, and when he has capable underlings the company succeeds. The team failed to motivate Spags to stay, and you really didn’t need a crystal ball to see what was going to happen. They lost an ENGAGED coach and tried to replace him with an also ran. When he went to StL he made both teams worse… PETER PRINCIPLE.
If Coughlin is replaced by the guys with pitch forks and torches, then there’s a good possibility that’s what they end up with. There are maybe three guys that might improve the Giants, and continue GIANT FOOTBALL as we know it. I don’t think any of them are listening to offers.
The bottom line is Tom has done a very good job, we’ll see how Fewell fairs. Keep your fingers crossed.
NHL 500... Let the Less Filling vs Tastes Great debate begin!
by JPinVA on Jun 1, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
Against all odds, against all circumstance were you don't have a shot, you succeed
-Michael Strahan
All you hear about is the past, the past... the past is the !@#$ing past, this is the present.
THIS IS TEMPORARY! A CHAMPIONSHIP IS PERMANENT
-Same as above
Coughlin is done.
He should have been out in 2007. Lucky for him Plaxico saved his ass in the championship. Tyree, Manning and the defense saved him in the SB. Dispite wins in the playoffs, championship and SB of that season,Coughlin was out coached in all of them. Out of the total time he has been with the Giants, he had two good years: 2007 & 2008. He can identitfy and develop player’s ability but locker room dissent has often found it way in to the spotlight and he was always on the wrong side. Time for the Giants to move on and start fresh. Coughlin has done all the he can.
Fan's Creed: (Play well+Win=Praise) (Play Well+Lose=Praise) (Play Lousy+Win=Criticism) (Play lousy+Lose & Bandwagon Jumpers=Off with thier heads!)
by LoNJDTechnology on May 31, 2010 10:22 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
LOL
"What's your plan?? Rob Fort Knox on elephant back? That's the dumbest thing I ever heard....."
by FreeBradshaw on May 31, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
no offenese but who’s gunna coach us after coughlin? People say Bill Cowher or John Gruden, who says that they are even going to come back and coach? Also think back to the Jim Fassal days and then look at Coughlin and tell me what you think.
I don't know.
You are right in that Cowher and Gruden may not come to NY. But that leaves the question of: do we stay with Coughlin and except mediocre play from the players and head scratching plays on the field. I understand injuries play a role but a coach is supposed to over come that. Bellicheck, Ryan, and other coaches do it all the time and bounce back.
TC is a better coach then Jim Fassel who was a bum of a coach. He had ONE year in 2000 when he to the Giants to the SB. they might have won but it was clear that the Ravens were the superior team. I will never forget that 49ers game though when the Giants were winning by a score of I think 45-6 at half time and the 49ers came back and won the game in the second half. To make matters worse TO caught the winning TD pass.
There are few coaches oit there right now but If the Giants stick with TC after his contract is up, I don’t see anymore SB titles coming to NY.
Fan's Creed: (Play well+Win=Praise) (Play Well+Lose=Praise) (Play Lousy+Win=Criticism) (Play lousy+Lose & Bandwagon Jumpers=Off with thier heads!)
by LoNJDTechnology on May 31, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
your out of your mind
Ummm basically all of our key players and new additions were injured last year and we still ended up 8-8. When Tom Brady went down with an injury in 2008 Bellicheck didn’t make Matt Cassel play extremely well…Matt Cassel did that all on his own. The Pats also didn’t make the playoffs that year either.
Rex Ryan has been a head coach for one year and all of his players were relatively healthy for most of the season minus Kris Jenkins.
The team had very bad luck last year. On paper we have all the pieces to be very good next season. Everyone just needs to stay healthy and play.
I am just calling it how I see it.
You are entitled to your assessment of my sanity but I think that my criticism of TC is warranted. The guy has not proven himself to be a better coach than those who I have named and iothers that I have not. The changes that we have made this offseason have yet to prove themselves so your assertion regarding aspect is invalid. Coughlin has had a ton of talent during his time with the Giants and only has one SB to show for it. That is unacceptable. When I see a more comeplete season from his teams then I will give him credit until then all he will get from me is criticism.
Fan's Creed: (Play well+Win=Praise) (Play Well+Lose=Praise) (Play Lousy+Win=Criticism) (Play lousy+Lose & Bandwagon Jumpers=Off with thier heads!)
by LoNJDTechnology on May 31, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW, the Ryan I was talking about is the Eagles head coach.
Fan's Creed: (Play well+Win=Praise) (Play Well+Lose=Praise) (Play Lousy+Win=Criticism) (Play lousy+Lose & Bandwagon Jumpers=Off with thier heads!)
by LoNJDTechnology on May 31, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
other then Bill Belicheck
there’s not a better coach in the NFL. If any of these other TV guys were any better, they wouldn’t get passed over for all these new jobs anymore. Or at least if they wanted to coach (and I still doubt they’re any better anyway. They’re “names”…wow.)
You can look for greener pastures..but by the time you’re done circling the earth, you’ll be looking at your own lawn.
"What's your plan?? Rob Fort Knox on elephant back? That's the dumbest thing I ever heard....."
by FreeBradshaw on May 31, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Maybe “noone is better” in hyperbole, but no one is much better but Belichick.
Besides him, the “gains” wouldn’t be worth the change.
Almost Every coach has had some bad seasons, especially the ones you hear as possible replacements. Unless Belichick wants to come back to the Meadowlands, Coughlin’s our coach (unless of course we shit the bed).
Against all odds, against all circumstance were you don't have a shot, you succeed
-Michael Strahan
All you hear about is the past, the past... the past is the !@#$ing past, this is the present.
THIS IS TEMPORARY! A CHAMPIONSHIP IS PERMANENT
-Same as above
Did you watch the games?
It doesn’t seem like it.
How was Coughlin out-coached by Gruden? If you had watched that game, you’d know that the Giants didn’t get a first down in the first quarter. They looked terrible. However, from the second quarter on, they were a different team. It was the Giants who adjusted and went on to bully the Bucs. The Bucs were something like +15 in turnovers for the season and lost the turnover battle 0-3 in the playoff game.
How was he out-coached by McCarthy? The Packers kept playing Plax in press coverage and he burned time after time to the tune of 11 rec. 154 yards. Plax had more than 50% of the team’s receptions for the game. There were no adjustments made to go to a soft zone.
How was he out-coached by Belichick? Belichick is the genius who couldn’t adjust to block the Giants’ D-line. He was also the genius who put Ellis Hobbs on Plax in one-on-one coverage in an all-out blitz. Where was Asante Samuel? He gave Plax the entire back of the end zone with that terrible defensive call. He gambled that the Giants wouldn’t be able to block it – Jacobs picked up the blitz nicely – and Eli wouldn’t be able to get the ball out – he recognized the defense immediately and changed the play to score the TD. The Giants controlled the clock and kept Brady and Co. off the field. They had it for 10 minutes in the first quarter. That sounds like smart coaching by Coughlin and a whole lot of bad coaching by Belichick.
I will rest my case with this.
He should have been out in 2007. Lucky for him Plaxico saved his ass in the championship. Tyree, Manning and the defense saved him in the SB. Dispite wins in the playoffs, championship and SB of that season,Coughlin was out coached in all of them.
Tampa Bay vs. NY: I will concede (could not find supporting info) so there is no point in trying to advance this claim.
TC played a key role in the resigning of Lawrence Tynes. There is no need for me to go into Tynes’s performance over the past several years. The supporting info above gives some insight as to why I think this was a bad idea.
As the supporting info shows, and aside form the Tamp Bay game, nothing that I said in my intial comment is without merit. If one were to go over Giants game while Coughlin was head coach, one will find more instances in which his coaching seemed to be lacking. I apologize for the Andy Reid mistake. Typing at work from my cell phone does not afford me the ability to switch from screen to screen to make sure that my info is accurate. It was a simple mistake nothing more.
I gave him the 2008 against my better judgment. Even without Plaxico, the Giants still had the talent and ability to win another SB.
Fan's Creed: (Play well+Win=Praise) (Play Well+Lose=Praise) (Play Lousy+Win=Criticism) (Play lousy+Lose & Bandwagon Jumpers=Off with thier heads!)
by LoNJDTechnology on May 31, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
old news day?
Coughlin is fine, I really dont think Pierce knows what he is talking about. Coughlin has been taking the Giants to the playoffs on a consistent basis and he won a superbowl.
Its going to take more than Osi and Tuck being a full strength to get the defense back to a “superbowl” level. We need a secondary who can stop romo, mcnabb, and kolb from making every game a shootout. Sure having both of them at full strength is awesome but I really dont think it was the D line that was the real problem.
what the hell is a justin bieber?
Best way to stop a shootout
Is to make sure it never starts. Pretty hard to throw while you’re eating grass.
have you heard of a doubleteam?
and how often does a pass rusher get through every time?
what the hell is a justin bieber?
pretty sure that's the point of having all these pass rushers
DT one or 2 of them, then someone’s going one on one.
"What's your plan?? Rob Fort Knox on elephant back? That's the dumbest thing I ever heard....."
by FreeBradshaw on May 31, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Coughlin stays
Coughlin is a great coach who, over the years, has def won the respect of his players. You can’t control the plethora of injuries they had last year. No coach can really overcome those kind of obstacles. As long as the team is competitive and makes the playoffs I think his job is very secure. If we have another season where we miss the playoffs again I think you will see Coughlin step down. This team is too good to not at least make the playoffs.
Overall, an improved and healthy defense will positively change this team’s fortune next year.
Antonio Pierce is a little bitter
Sure he has a better understanding of the inner-workings of the NYG organization then the fans but I really think he is upset with how things went down last year. The defense collapsed under his leadership (due to injuries and dismal play) and then his season was cut short by a frustrating neck injury. That would leave any former defensive leader a little sour. On top of that, I really think he still wants to play but no team will touch him unless he surgically repairs his neck (which is not something I think he evens wants to do).
Coughlin on the 'hot seat'...Your kidding right?
Look at coaches that are considered ‘iconic’?..Holmgren, Cowher..Gruden?..You guys are nuts to not think Coughlin be considered one of the top Coaches in the league..The guy was coaching a bunch of wounded soldiers, plus has made assistant coaching adjustments that all make sense…Shit Cowher retired after he finally got the SB win, but prior to that had a very dismal career..You really want that guy?..Holmgren all those years with GB and Seattle..1 SB..What makes him greater than Coughlin?..One could argue that Shanahan is top-notch (we’ll see if he still has it) and obviously Payton is an up and comer..Gruden?..Give me a break..I’ll stick with Coughlin coaching a group of healthy players anyday…
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
I'm not sure how free agency
Along the offensive line looks for next season, so I’ll go on things based on the 2011 NFL Draft. We need to be thinking of a replacement for Shaun O’Hara and so far there are three maybe four 1st-2nd round projected players if you include Florida St.‘s OG Rodney Huson to that mix. You have Mike Pouncey from Florida, Stefan Wisniewski from Penn St. and Kristofer O’Dowd from USC who would be viable candidates. We really need to make a slash in next years draft along the oline because we have skill and solid depth at every other position outside of LB. I think this will be addressed with two early selections, a G/C and a swing T. Now youth and talent would be served on the oline.
by Robin's-meats-and-vegetables on May 31, 2010 1:07 PM EDT reply actions
You're right
if Dillard or Goff or maybe even Micha Johnson can hold down that MLB spot pretty well, look for that O-Line to get very young after the 2011 draft.
On another note,
I read on profootballweekly.com that Jarrett Bush may be getting a pink slip out in Green Bay. A mostly CB/S would be excellent depth wise for us. This guy is a 26 year old veteran who would compete with Bruce Johnson for that 4th or 5th CB position and give us that added depth that we need at the position. Its the seemingly minor moves you make that end up making a world of difference which is why I even state this potential release.
by Robin's-meats-and-vegetables on May 31, 2010 1:46 PM EDT reply actions
Coughlin is on the hot seat.....i guess
if the giants absolutely tank this year….but let’s be honest, any coach in his situation…in NY, would be on the hot seat after 2 bad year. We’re all shocked after we finished 8-8. If we put up another 8-8 year than yeah….people are going to start looking at coughlin.
BUT. if this team plays to it’s potentialy, and IMO that’s a playoff seed and a deep run into the playoffs I think Coughlin will ride out his contract.
but what’s that statement even mean “hot seat”??? it’s like if you consistently get bad results….what are we supposed to do? pat you on the back and say job well done? NO.. you get fired.
i like coughlin he has brought a SB ring to NY. only 1 man ever did that before. He’s safe for now, but if mediocracy keeps up than yeah, he’s on the hot seat
"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708
Everyone saw the actual interview?
Watch it in entirety before we judge. I believe this is it
When he said it, it didn’t feel like to me “Coughlins going to go on the first bad thing hot seat”.
More of that everyone “Everybody is on high alert” (from pierce himself) and that great things are expected.
I agree completely with that assessment.
Against all odds, against all circumstance were you don't have a shot, you succeed
-Michael Strahan
All you hear about is the past, the past... the past is the !@#$ing past, this is the present.
THIS IS TEMPORARY! A CHAMPIONSHIP IS PERMANENT
-Same as above
Coughlin's hot seat spot
is on the fence. If the team plays poorly, then there will be chatter about Coughlin going. If the team plays well, then the chatter will be about how much longer we’re going to keep him.
Yes he is the coach, but we were seriously decimated by injuries at key positions last season; those who blame Coughlin for that are similar to people who blame a gun manufacturer because their kid was killed by SOMEONE carrying a gun that the company made. Just makes very little, if any, sense.
The ability to adjust to changing conditions is paramount, but there are times when the hill is simply to high to climb. Last season was exactly that.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
was
the hill too high to climb or did our players just lack the motivation to climb it? Now i do know that injuries were huge last year, but watching the last 2 games was a disgrace. There was obviously no effort from our team, flat doesnt discribe how we played in those games. more like crushed or demoralized
I think it was a combination, but it began
with the injuries. So, when your #1 guys are injured and your subs make a few mistakes, or they just don’t know their assignments, or they simply fail, it doesn’t take much of that to bring a team to its knees. Or as you said, a point of complete disgrace.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
Eli and the WR's have to carry this team early
I believe in Fewell but I think it will take 5-6 games until he finds the right chemistry on the field and the players starting playing in the system w/o thinking.
Eli is getting Top 5 QB money and I think he has to start delivering on a QB rating of 100+ in each game. That’s right. I don’t want to hear “we’re a run first team” because those RB’s and OL is getting a little older. Plus, lets admit that the East Conference has some really good defenses in the Eagles and Cowboys and both DL’s are tough – I expect the Redskins to get better as well.
If we can average 88 on the run game and 300 in the air I believe that we can go 3-3 in the first 6 games and from there the schedule is hard enough.
You can do it Eli -
Let's all remember
…how bad it was when TC cam in and he coached the team to 4 straight playoff appearances. Parcells do that? No. Did any Redskin coach? No. Andy Reid….well yes but no SB’s.
Remember how bad it was and let’s remember that this guy knows bad players and policy and can right the ship. I’m sure he can get this team in the right direction again once he has a solid cast of coaches and a healthy lineup.
What the hell did the Jags do after he left. LOST
Do we really want to compare Coughlin with Parcells?
In my opinion Bill is one of the top five coaches of all time. He was able to turn around the Giants when they were mired in a twenty year losing streak. He did the same at the Patriots, Jets, and even Dallas where he likely would have won another Super Bowl had Romo not missed that snap.
I’m not knocking Couglin but maybe we should create a post just to compare the two.
by giant fan since 57 on Jun 1, 2010 6:12 AM EDT reply actions
well you really can't compare them, not because of the jobs they've done
more so since Parcells has been all over the place as a HC and whatever the hell he is in Miami now.
Coughlin’s been 2 places. And he quickly made the expansion Jaguars into a solid club (who the hell was Mark Brunell???) And quickly turned the Giants into a team that considers an 8-8 season a sure sign that the apocalypse is near.
Parcells won 2 SB’s with the Giants didn’t he? 86 and 90 right? Well…Coughlin won in 2007. Seems like now’s the time.
"What's your plan?? Rob Fort Knox on elephant back? That's the dumbest thing I ever heard....."
I see Tuna
as the Lombardi, Allen, Shula type as opposed to the Owen, Shaughnessy, Hickey and Walsh type. The latter, in addition to enjoying success in terms of wins and losses were innovators as well.
P.S. That's why
I picked Owen over Parcells as All-Time Giants coach (along with his thirty plus years with the Giants organization.)
It'll be a short thread...
Because the two do not compare.
The only area that Coughlin would get the nod would be for producing more constipated looks per game or having a redder face……..
I have never liked Coughlin, and wish we would go in another direction. He is NOT the disciplinarian everyone makes him out to be and he has to be accountable for moves like promoting Sheridan etc… I think Chucky is the perfect Mantra for the Gmen – he loves pounding the rock, playing D and he is a QB mentor – plus he has the NY glamour factor, he and Rex would make the papers and talk radio enjoyable. To me he is the best fit out there.
Cowher is vastly overrated. If he did not win that SB with Ben, he would have been fired for having so many talented teams and going nowhere with them…..
Absolutely,
57. No denying Parcells is an All-Time Great Coach. I particularly like what he’s doing in Miami. As GM with the Jets, he didn’t quite get what he was aiming for and abandoned ship after guiding it into an iceberg. Belly decided not to go down with it as well.
Watching Tuna as GM in Miami makes it obvious that he learned a lot from his GM tenure with the Jets
Well, Tuna has bailed occasionally.....
When he left the Giants he said it was for health reasons…..financial health reasons I guess…..
Of the new coaches in the game today I think Mike Tomlin, Mike Singletary, and possibly Rex Ryan all have a chance to be great.
by giant fan since 57 on Jun 1, 2010 3:58 PM EDT reply actions
I think he bailed the Jets
because he knew the team had nowhere to go but down. He tried for the George Allen philosophy of “Win it now,” and it didn’t work out. Belly wasn’t about to take over that mess.
New coaches—good choices.
and that's why its a good idea to keep Coughlin
him and Accorsi/Reese have built a team that is talented enough to win now, but young enough to sustain it.
Draft busts aren’t merely due to the GM and scouts who find them, but the coaches who teach them how to play in the NFL.
"What's your plan?? Rob Fort Knox on elephant back? That's the dumbest thing I ever heard....."
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