Breakout Player: Barden Or Beckum?

by Ed Valentine on May 27, 2010 7:00 AM EDT in New York Giants News

Ramses Barden and Travis Beckum, the New York Giants' 2009 third-round draft selections, were complete non-factors in their rookie seasons.

Barden, a wide receiver, caught just one meaningless pass in the final regular season game. Beckum, a tight end/H-Back, caught just eight, only three of which came after the season's fifth game.

Which player do you think has a better chance to be the 2010 version of Mario Manningham? Remember, Super Mario was a 2008 third-round pick who went from four catches and one memorable fumble as a rookie to a breakout season of 47 catches and lots of big plays in his second season.

So, Barden or Beckum? Which of these two talented young receiving threats do you believe has the best shot at being a breakout player for the Giants in 2010?

Ramses Barden

#13 / Wide Receiver / New York Giants

Height: 6-6

Weight: 227

Born: Jan 01, 1986

College: Cal Poly

My money ... if I was betting on it ... would be on Barden. The reason is simple, and it has nothing to do with which player I think is better. They both have pass-catching skills I am sure Eli Manning could find ways to exploit.

The reason is this. Opportunity. Plain and simple. I think Barden's path to playing time, and a clear role in the Giants' offense, is much more identifiable than is Beckum's.

Let's explore Barden's path to playing time.

In 2009, Barden was a rookie from a small school (Cal Poly) who was viewed largely as a developmental project. At 6-foot-6, 230 pounds he had the size and strength to be a weapon. He didn't have the knowledge or route running ability to separate from experienced corners. Without a role in the offense, he also did not have the special teams ability to force his way onto the field on game days. He was the sixth, or maybe seventh, wide receivers on a game day roster with room for only five.

I doubt that will be the case this season. If Barden shows the advancement in maturity and understanding you should be able to expect after a year of more or less sitting and learning, he should be able to at least work his way past Domenik Hixon on the wide receiver depth chart and into the regular rotation as the fourth receiver.

Here is Barden discussing his comfort levelfollowing a recent OTA.

"I don't want to say it's night and day, but it's definitely different," Barden said of the difference from last year. "There's an understanding for the offense, for the scheme, for the concepts, with the plays and the teammates there's a lot more comfort. I'm able to focus more on the details as opposed to the basics and a little bit more let football become natural again.

"Instead of worrying about what I got on each play I can say 'What is this guy's tendencies? How can I beat him? What can I do to set him up?' It becomes more of a game," he said. "It's more fun when you don't have to worry about the basic concepts. It gives me an opportunity to show my ability outside of what people have seen thus far."

If Barden convinces the coaching staff he is ready for a role in the offense, and not just on the scout team, there are plenty of obvious ways the Giants can utilize him.

His size, strength, huge hands and leaping ability make him an obvious threat for fade routes and other passes in the red zone. How about on short-yardage throws in traffic over the middle? On on those long post-routes down field that often turn into jump balls, and that Plaxico Burress used to win consistently.

Steve Smith believes the Giants will give Barden every chance to show he can make an impact in 2010.

"I see him getting on the field this year and catching some TDs in the red zone and making some plays for us. He was a third-round pick, so I'm assuming they want to get him on the field to see what he can do."

I see no reason Barden can't develop, at the least, into a situational receiver who will be more useful on the field than Hixon. His skills, to me, would provide an excellent complement to Manningham, Smith and Hakeem Nicks.

Travis Beckum

#47 / Tight End / New York Giants

Height: 6-3

Weight: 243

Born: Jan 24, 1987

College: Wisconsin

When it comes to Beckum, I have no problem with the skill set. He is a pure pass catcher, not a traditional tight end who can be up on the line as a blocker. He is an H-Back type, a guy you move all around, put in motion, line up wide or in the backfield and throw the ball to.

Beckum had more opportunities than Barden last season, and early on it looked as though he might become a regular part of the passing attack. After a couple of costly mistakes, however, Beckum found himself back on the outside looking in for most of his rookie season.

"Last year, everything I learned was new and fresh to me and this year it's much easier to understand just because I've done it before," Beckum said. "It's just easier to go out and play when you know what you're doing. The only reason you don't play full speed is your lack of knowing what to do.

"It was my rookie year and you never know what to expect," he said. "You never know what coaches have in store for you. Of course I would have liked to play more but I'm not going to look back on it and dread on it. It was my rookie year."

Mike Garafolo talked with Beckum recently, and the second-year pro sounded optimistic about his chances to have a bigger impact.

"I think it’s going to be a great season for us and for me as well just because of my knowledge now," he said. "It’s just so much easier for me to understand the playbook, read the hots and read the defense. I feel so much more crisp.

"I picked it up toward the end of last year as far as what I knew, but the reps still didn’t come in the game. It is what it is. I’m just looking forward to getting better, having a great year and us having a great year as well."

I know there is a tendency with Beckum to put the blame for his lack of use on offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride. It's old "He has different skills, and Gilbride has no clue how to use him" argument. If I have heard it once, I have heard it dozens of times. And I don't buy it.

KG has run every type of offense there is in the NFL from the conventional Giants' approach to the Run 'N Shoot days in Houston. He knows what Beckum's skills are.

Put yourself in Gilbride's shoes for a second. How do you get Beckum on the field?

Let's use a four-wide receiver set as an example. You have Smith, Nicks, Manningham and Barden or Hixon. And you have either Boss at tight end or Ahmad Bradshaw lined up in the backfield.

Who comes off the field? Not Nicks. Not Manningham in most instances.

Are you going to take Boss, an excellent receiver, off the field? I thought we wanted more Bossman, not less. KG would get killed for doing that -- because it would be the wrong thing to do.

Would you take Bradshaw off the field and put Beckum in the backfield? He can't block for beans, so you would be announcing pass to the world and inviting the opposing defense to rush the house and kill Eli. That doesn't make any sense, either.

So, your choice is really simple in most cases. You have to choose between Barden, Hixon and Beckum. If I'm making that choice, most of the time Beckum is staying on the sidelines.

There might be some red zone instances where that changes, but that is about all. I would advocate a four-receiver set of Smith, Nicks, Barden and Beckum inside the 20, getting the smaller Manningham and Hixon off the field. Along with Boss, that would give Eli several big, physical targets to make plays in red zone traffic.

In most scenarios, though, I don't see how Beckum gets on the field unless someone else who should be out there is not.

So, for me, Barden has the better chance at a breakout 2010.

Your thoughts?

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Comments

Barden

This is a tough one, because Barden has some good WRs ahead of him. I think he could make it to the #4 WR, possibly #3 if Mario drops some key balls again, but Im hoping he has that worked out. It is scary how good and deep our WRs could be!

But I kind think Beckum might get some more touches, especially with Boss going under the knife, I know he will be back for the season, but the Giants might look to give him some plays off.

either way it will be nice to see how both of them progressed in a year.

by BigBlue82 on May 27, 2010 7:14 AM EDT reply actions

If Barden does the right things........

I think Barden can be a better faster Plaxico. The apple of opportunity is dangling in front of a real hungry, talented dude and all he has to do is show a Rice-like work ethic and determination. Not easy but definitely doable

by snowmeow on May 27, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions

I go with Beckum

Barden is probably at best the #4 WR, with a very slim chance of beating out HAM for the #3 spot (and of course there’s always the injury thing)

Who’s our backup TE?

Also, Beckum got on the field last year, meaning he’s ahead on the overall receiving depth chart. I thought the reason he didn’t play more was cuz he was hurt and not practicing.

I think/hope that both at least see the field more often, both get about 15-20 catches a piece too (offense wasn’t on the field as much as it should be last year)

But I gotta go Beckum. More polished. Beckum’s as polished as Nicks, HAM or Smith coming out of college. If he’s improved his blocking at least marginally (and he’s strong enough, and look at our Philly rivals who have a similar styled college TE in Brent Celek doing well now) he’ll get even more opportunities as a traditional TE.

sadah tah

by FreeBradshaw on May 27, 2010 7:20 AM EDT reply actions

agree....

man just think of the WR battle we are gonna have, Mario and Barden battling it out for the #3 spot! And Smith and Nicks battling it out for the #1 and #2 spots. I bet Eli cant wait to get going!

by BigBlue82 on May 27, 2010 7:28 AM EDT up reply actions

I don't think there will be a battle

Smith is a clear #1 and Mario is also way ahead of Barden. I doubt that will change until next year

by mclaren_is_the_best on May 27, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions

I think if Nicks toe is good to go he's a better option on the outside than smith....

not to say he’s the better overall WR….because i think Smith is clearly better in the “overall” category. but when it comes to size, speed, and YAC… Nicks has way more potential.

It also took Nicks all of a 3/4 of a year (in which he was also injured) to take Mario’s job….if Barden goes hard he could do that same.

Mario could also keep him on the bench if he decides to step up his game….

i think it will be interesting for sure.

"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708

by andiamo708 on May 27, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Beckum

Problem is, he is not really a backup tight end. You can’t put him on the line of scrimmage and ask him to block. He can’t do it. He is a pass catcher, and who comes off the field when he is on?

by Ed Valentine on May 27, 2010 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions

well you said Gilbride does know how to get em on the field

I’m sure he could figure it out.

As for his blocking, I doubt it ever gets to Boss’ level, but blocking can be taught..need only see Boss as an example. He’s got the size, strength and athleticism to at least give a defenders something to think about.

sadah tah

by FreeBradshaw on May 27, 2010 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions

I seem to recall

Reese saying they would never expect Beckum to be used as a blocker. Why push a square peg into a round hole?

by Ed Valentine on May 27, 2010 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions

Best way to use Beckum

would be in a single back formation with Nicks and Smith @ WR and Boss and Beckum as your tightend on either side

by #56 4life on May 27, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions

I think your approaching the getting Beckum on the field all wrong

instead of putting him in for a wideout or RB, how about having him in there for the hedgecock? line him up as a fullback on play action plays, that would at least have to keep the D honest. they can’t fully sell out to the pass. or use a lot more motion with him. again, in the I or split I formation, and motion him out the backfield so he’s got a running start going into his pass route. that’s def. giving us a extra set of hands over maddy on pass plays.

and i agree with Free. why can’t someone learn to block better? that’s what great players do, they improve the weak parts of there game. in a sense, everyone has to have some semblance of blocking techniqued when there on the field. if Trav genuinely wants to get better, and get on the field more, he’ll spend extra time with the coaches and looking at film of say, Mark Bavaro, and hone his technique.

by wilddre22 on May 27, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions

I think you're the one approaching it wrong

You can’t put a skinny finesse guy like Beckum at full back and have the defense believe they will run the ball.

by mclaren_is_the_best on May 27, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions

That isn't exactly how the H-back works

Usually the threat is that you will pass the ball, to a hybrid TE/WR so the other team takes a LB off the field, which opens up the running game.

At least that is how I’ve seen the Skins do it to us.

And Beckum at 6-3 245 is more than big enough to block a safety. Most of the time on a running play the H-back isn’t the lead blocker like a fullback. It is really a different design, than pluck the FB and use the H-Back.

What I like about it is that its a very different look from the regular power sets the Giants prefer. I hope that it makes some teams uncomfortable.

by trueblue63 on May 27, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions

yeah i think skinny is the wrong way to describe him

he’s right about avg. with speedy receiver type TEs. he’s only 10 lbs lighter than Boss, and Boss is actually 3 inches taller, so he’s packing more poundage per inch.

your right about the finesse part, but once again i don’t want to use him as a traditional fullback, just line him up back there with big boy or ahmad. and you can use him as a blocker, in motion, or on a sweep, to take on the lighter LB or safeties/corners, like trueblue63 says. i mean, he’s not totally inept as a blocker. this is from nfl.com’s scouting report on Trav:

Provides an initial pop and willingness to sustain as a pass and run blocker.

So while you may not have him punch it through the middle to take on a nose tackle, using him on counters, sweeps, or as a decoy, in a play action situation, i think there is something to that. NFL.com compared him coming out of college to Randy McMichael, so if he can be half of that, i’d be satisfied.

by wilddre22 on May 27, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Dustin Keller

is on the smaller side and also isnt much of a blocker. Jets running game certainly didnt seem to suffer. He is a weapon in the passing game.

by Giants56 on May 27, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Keller is a similar style player

“steretyped” as a finesse player, but his strength and size say he could develop into a complete TE. That’s what Beckum is. He was just a “finesse” player in college…cuz that’s how he was used. You can’t be come a great inline blocker if you’re never used that way.

Technique can be tought. Kevin Boss was considered a liability as a blocker, he’s pretty good now. Giants have a good TE coach…let em coach.

sadah tah

by FreeBradshaw on May 27, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions

+1

by wilddre22 on May 27, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree but don't understand

how and why don’t Gilbride just put Barden in the game on redzone drives and just throw the ball up in the corner of the endzone and let him make a play………his 6 6 and if he can’t then why the hell did the giants draft him?

by Jermal on May 27, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions

Relax, Jermal

You will see some of that this coming season, I’m sure. We were not at practice last year, remember. Barden simply had not mastered the ability to get off the line of scrimmage and get open against good corners. He was not ready. This year, maybe a different story.

by Ed Valentine on May 27, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions

I've asked the same question as Jermal many times...

…and Ed’s is the first good answer I’ve seen. If I hear “he wasn’t good at special teams” one more time, I’ll rip the head off of my Donovan McNabb voodoo doll. Oh, wait. I’ll probably do that anyway.

But seriously – as bad as we are in the red zone, it’s worth a try.

I left my swagger in my other pants.

by HughG16 on May 27, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions

he's a rook and came from a tiny football school

that’s 2 strikes right there. The third strike is he couldn’t figure out how to play special teams, most likely cuz he’s never done it.

If this was Sinorice Moss, who was a big time playmaker from Miami..then OK, he may be on his way to being a bust.

But they couldn’t even activate him cuz they had to keep Hagen and Hixon activated to play ST

sadah tah

by FreeBradshaw on May 27, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't know if it's fair to say he can't figure out to play special teams....

i hear what ur saying, and yes it’s a problem of his….but i don’t know if it’s something that necessarily can be corrected.

it’s like saying a pitcher never learned how to throw 95 mph heat….either you got it or you don’t.

sure barden could probably get better form on his blocking but at that size I just don’t see him as a big contributor on special teams. He’s just so tall and lanky….I feel like on defending Kick Returns/Punt Returns he’s totally useless. Maybe blocking for our return team…but that about it.

"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708

by andiamo708 on May 27, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions

"can be"

absolutely.

But he couldn’t last year, so that’s why he didn’t play

sadah tah

by FreeBradshaw on May 27, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions

well here's to hoping that requirement has been lifted....

b/c i honestly don’t see Barden being a big impact on ST. and even if he did get better….will he be better than Hix and Hagen? I highly doubt it.

If Barden gonna make an impact it’s going to be at WR only IMO. Hopefully though….after this draft we’ll have enough position players/Special teamers that we can justify having Barden active w/out being a ST guy.

"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708

by andiamo708 on May 27, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Special Teams

I think he is a guy who is an odd size for coverage teams, and he just is not comfortable/good at it. And you can’t exactly use his to block FGs off the edge.

by Ed Valentine on May 27, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions

long snapper???

LOL….but i agree, i don’t see him on special teams on coverage duties….

"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708

by andiamo708 on May 28, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd guess the way to not tip off that its always a pass with Beckum in there

is to run. They do a lot of single back stuff. Put Becks in at fullback, send him in motion, then let Jacobs run at someone

sadah tah

by FreeBradshaw on May 27, 2010 7:43 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree

if he is the motion guy he just needs to shield the defender rather than be at the point of attack to still be effective.

by G Fan in England on May 27, 2010 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions

yes...

beckum said this the other day….he’s not a TE…he doesn’t play Boss’ position….they won’t interfere w/ one another.

"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708

by andiamo708 on May 27, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions

+1000

Beckum only has one guy in front of him, so if he is working hard he should have an easier time getting on the field than Barden. I like Barden a lot but I have to agree with a lot of posters on him, unless Ham does nothing this year at best he is the 4th reciever.

by Late for Dinner on May 27, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions

See, I disagree

that Beckum only has one guy in front of him. He is not a traditional tight end. And, basically, putting him on the field takes a wide receiver off in most cases . I hope the guy catches 30-40 balls, I’m just not sure how it is going to happen.
As for 4th wideout, there are lots of four-receiver sets during games.

by Ed Valentine on May 27, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions

Id like to see Beckum

get time when its not a 3 or 4 wide set. Although he was a rook last year, he made some grave mistakes against players that checked him. (mostly db’s b/c he was in against dime package defenses). I’d rather have him get a lot of burn when we are in a two TE set with the option to pass or run. His skillset would best be used against a slower LB in coverage. Being that he isnt that tall (boss) and isnt a blocking TE, I just dont see the adv of putting beck against a DB.

Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do

by semsemma on May 27, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions

I'm assuming both Beckum & Barden are working hard

Football a lot of times is a numbers game, I am just pointing out that Beckum will probably get his opportunity faster than Barden because there is only one guy ahead of him on the depth chart. Granted Beckum is a pass catching TE but if he wants to see the field on a consistant basis he needs to learn to block, and blocking can be taught. The best example of that is Boss who was not known as a blocking TE.

Barden has 3 guys ahead of him. I know we often bump heads over Gilbride, but I am wondering how he is gonna get the ball to Nicks, Smith and Ham let alone working in a 4th reciever regularly.

by Late for Dinner on May 27, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions

I think Beckum

Will be the “TE” in obvious passing situations, 2 minute drill, 3rd down etc….not every time obviously, but i think he will take some snaps from Boss in those situations when they go 3 wide.

by Giants56 on May 27, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Beckum seems to be a backup

He plays if Boss does not.

Really can’t see it any other way except for those Red Zone 4 wide sets you mentioned Free.

That means with a little luck The Pharaoh is the fourth WR and gets more playing time.

Beckum appears to be an example of drafting BPA, but not knowing what to do with him. Unless a Boss backup was always the intention.

But I like the Celek analogy.

by MSP Giant on May 28, 2010 7:05 AM EDT up reply actions

I am hoping that

the breakout player is Sintim!

If the two B’s do not have great numbers our offence will do well.

If Sintim has good numbers then our defence is doing really well. If Sintim struggles then our D may be as well.

There is an article on pass rushers on NFL saying those that don’t improve in year 2 generally are busts. Well SIntim did get a sack in limited play last year so if he can get near 8 I would be more than happy wit that.

If not Beckum is more likely to have the breakout given his TE/HB position.

by G Fan in England on May 27, 2010 7:31 AM EDT reply actions

Well, sure

But I was thinking of this as a comparison between the two receivers.

by Ed Valentine on May 27, 2010 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions

Just me

as usual throwing in a curveball!

by G Fan in England on May 27, 2010 7:43 AM EDT up reply actions

LOL!!

We will do more ‘breakout player’ stuff thru the off-season.

by Ed Valentine on May 27, 2010 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions

:) would be great!

Esp. in this Defense where the Mike and Wil get more opps to tackle and zone coverages – this should free up their use of Sintim in more pass rushing plays.

Opus smart , lascivio magis , intereo gauisus...

by 27Tango on May 27, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions

This is an easy one to mugwump on.

There are so many imponderables.
FB makes a good case for Beckum, but your response to 82 pushes me toward Barden.
Didn’t a lot of us think Beckum’s best use would be as H-back? What are the chances of that happening?

by blue gonz on May 27, 2010 7:46 AM EDT reply actions

Beckum

Like I said, I love the skills. The real difficulty is who comes off the field while Beckum is on? Especially if Barden steps up and gets regular snaps this season.
It’s a quandary. Of course, injuries (which we don’t want, of course) could always make it a moot point.

by Ed Valentine on May 27, 2010 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions

I'll go with Barden...

He’ll be like a tree falling fom the 10 yard line into the end-zone.

"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"

by Bobbiblue on May 27, 2010 7:48 AM EDT reply actions

I think Beckham will get more touches, plain and simple. We’ll probably be pretty glad to have him, too. I suspect Barden will have a similar year to Nicks last year. Nicks didn’t get the ball an awful lot, but man, when he did he left his mark. I don’t expect Barden to be as slippery, but I think those ups will prove to be a value on more than one occasion.

by YankeeDudeL on May 27, 2010 8:15 AM EDT reply actions

Good question

I’d lean towards Barden.

Let’s hope they both break out.

Against all odds, against all circumstance were you don't have a shot, you succeed
-Michael Strahan
All you hear about is the past, the past... the past is the !@#$ing past, this is the present.
THIS IS TEMPORARY! A CHAMPIONSHIP IS PERMANENT
-Same as above

by Willgfass on May 27, 2010 8:22 AM EDT reply actions

I'm going with Barden....

because I think that if he is used in a 3 or 4 wide set, the D’s top cover guys will have to focus on Smith and Nicks giving Barden some room to operate. Still, this is a tough call.

by njgiant on May 27, 2010 9:31 AM EDT reply actions

I have to go with Beckum as well...

agree with what has been said concerning Beckum. Although I do think Barden will get his chances more in the Red Zone and will be able to convert for the most part. But Beckum will just have more touches, he is ahead of the pace as far as getting on the field more last year. I think a combination of some lingering injuries last year, his newness to the team (not just in terms of being a rookie but the new position [H-Back] that KG needs to incorporate into the Giants offense) and a couple of rookie slip ups cost him last season. But, I have this irking feeling that they just needed a little time to iron out those wrinkles. I think KG will have a better idea of how to use him wisely in this offense and hopefully, Beckum also had some time improving his blocking, b/c that’s what makes him more invaluable if he does. Just for the simple reason of not being able to give away the play (that it’s a passing play only). They get this going along with some running game reminiscent of 2007 or even 2008 and they will be explosive with the given maturity of their already deep WR sets. Barden will get his in more of a limited way, esp. in the Red Zone or short yardage packages.

Opus smart , lascivio magis , intereo gauisus...

by 27Tango on May 27, 2010 9:36 AM EDT reply actions

With H. Nick's toe being a constant factor...

I see Rames being on the field more then Beckham as more probable. This toe was an issue when Nicks was drafted and it is still a topic of concern as of late. Also Manningham’s performance began to tapper off considerably towards the end of last season. If this inconsistency continues, it will only serve to reinforce my theory that we will eventually see more of Rames. Even if the two aforementioned scenerios don’t materialize, he ca be brought in on third down to help the Giants with thier third down conversion problems. Open S. Smith; give Brandon less of a wall to run through; make jump ball type catches that Plaxico use to make; etc.

I am not completely sold an Beckham because of the problem with his blocking ability. IMHO, it dosen’t matter where you put him. If the play isn’t designed to get him the ball, then his ineffective blocking will always be a liability. His speed could also be a factor in whether he should go in over Rames; providing that they both are on equal footing in regards to understanding the offense and thier roles in it.

Fan's Creed: (Play well+Win=Praise) (Play Well+Lose=Praise) (Play Lousy+Win=Criticism) (Play lousy+Lose & Bandwagon Jumpers=Off with thier heads!)

by LoNJDTechnology on May 27, 2010 9:39 AM EDT reply actions

Barden better tuck that jersey in too...

It shouldn’t get him down, but could def. slow him some for a gang tackle.

Opus smart , lascivio magis , intereo gauisus...

by 27Tango on May 27, 2010 9:45 AM EDT reply actions

Put yourself in Gilbride's shoes for a second. How do you get Beckum on the field?

I would resign immediately….

but seriously….

All signs point to Beckum having a better year….he’s a Hback, he won’t step on Boss’s toes, they’ll draw up plays for him…as an Hback….

but at the end of the day, he won’t be used as an Hback…..Gilbride will line him up wide….more like a WR or a traditional TE.

Barden is a WR….Gilbride loves throwing to WRs….even though we’re deep at that position my money is on Barden b/c Gilbride i’m convinced is still trying to figure out exactly what an Hback is…..

"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708

by andiamo708 on May 27, 2010 9:46 AM EDT reply actions

Barden but...

I have high hopes for Barden, have not seen him play much, just read about him. Was hoping to see more of him last year, especially when games were out of reach. I think it was a mistake not to give him the learning opportunity but that OC is gone, thank goodness. Hope TC/Gilbride better about using him this year. He is certainly an imposing figure a la Plax as many have said. Fade route as mentioned. Beckum needs to prove himself after some mediocrity. But a backup is needed for Boss (may he make 50 catches + this year, throw to the guy!). I don’t know much about Pascoe (open for comments on him), have not seen him much either. I am not sure why Beckum cannot block, it is a learned skill, he has enough size, takes effort and desire. That is part of proving himself. All in all, quite a stable of receivers, I cannot wait to see the 4 receiver sets. Tough for anyone new trying to break in during camp!

by UnknownJintsFan on May 27, 2010 9:56 AM EDT reply actions

My mistake..

OC is still here! Duh! What was I thinking.

by UnknownJintsFan on May 27, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions

This debate

is really interesting. I’m glad I posted this. There are terrific arguments on both sides, and I think we would love to see both guys have good years. I guess we just have to see what happens once they get out on the field.
Shoot, at least we aren’t talking about Sinorice Moss!

by Ed Valentine on May 27, 2010 10:05 AM EDT reply actions

Moss is a 4 letter word

Nothing against the guy personally but he is taking a roster spot that could do better elsewhere. How about a poll, what player should be in Moss’s spot? :)

by UnknownJintsFan on May 27, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions

yea

the best of both worlds is both.

Actually..one of them would be nice cuz that means that Eli’s got a new weapon. And considering the size of both these guys, and athleticism, it means a new red zone threat

sadah tah

by FreeBradshaw on May 27, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Barden

Ramsus should see a good amount of action this year. Imo the offence will be a top ten unit. Even if Barden comes in on goal line situations only he will be in the game an awful lot. Beckum cant block i just dont know how we are gonna use him with any regularity.

by costanza! on May 27, 2010 10:12 AM EDT reply actions

Absent an injury...

I think you’ll see more of Barden, who has a natural spot on the team that he can move into. Beckum has a shorter line to the field (an injury to Boss and we’ll see lots of him), but there’s no preexisting position or job description where Beckum is superior to the present option. I’ve posted a few times previously that the drafting of Beckum, while he DOES have a skill set that would justify where he was taken, was a head-scratcher, as he was chosen by a team that had better options at the available positions, and even more importantly, YOUNG better options who’ll be around for awhile absent injury. Hixon will stay on the roster as he has special teams value as well as being a depth receiver, but Barden could pass him on the receiver depth chart. Overall I see Barden as a player the Giants had a plan for and a role they wanted him to grow into, while Beckum is more of a nice insurance policy who’ll need a reworking of the offensive scheme or a “risk event” to give him steady playing time.

by Cranky50 on May 27, 2010 10:14 AM EDT reply actions

Really good article

Gunna say Barden just because with the other 3 WR’s we have, no one is going to expect Ramses to be getting any passes this year. oh and by the way Ed, must have taken some guts to defend a guy who is popularly called Killdrive on here

by #56 4life on May 27, 2010 10:21 AM EDT reply actions

Gilbride is protected here....

there are some of us who really give him hell like Cody.

and others like myself who just want to see some creativity and innovation….i mean JR gave this guy a ton of toys to play w/ and we still stall in short yardage situations….

I mean, Ed’s supporting Gilbride but he’s basically saying that Beckum going to be used as a Wideout…not a Hback….and he’s right. So while he’s putting a positive spin on it …. it really says a lot about Gilbride and his inability to work w/ the talent he has….at least IMO.

"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708

by andiamo708 on May 27, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions

Guts

Nah, my stance on Gilbride is well known by anyone who has been here for a while. You want to call KG names and rip him all the time you won’t find an ally here. I know he’s not the best OC in the business, but not everything that goes wrong is his fault, either.
In terms of Beckum, I don’t think it had anything to do with not knowing how to use him last season. I think it had to do with not TRUSTING him. He made a couple of bad mistakes that cost Eli interceptions.
If you can’t be sure the guy is going to run the right route and be where he needs to be, it’s tough to have him out on the field.

by Ed Valentine on May 27, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions

Between the 20's he's fine.

But when we get into the red zone, he’s the most predictable, least creative OC there is. When everybody in the stadium knows it’s going to be Jacobs up the gut…don’t run Jacobs up the freaking gut! That’s why god gave us play-action!

I left my swagger in my other pants.

by HughG16 on May 27, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions

I think beckum

KG needs to get him in there against these small 3rd and 4th corner backs.. not only is he tall, hes 245 pounds… he’ll be running over CBs and Safteys like its nothing.

I see Barden more as a jump higher then you and go get the ball guy… i see beckum as as a huge mismatch guy that if you get him the ball in space its going to a real bitch getting him to go to the ground. he should be able to easily beat the press and over power any cb on the feild. hes pretty fast too… they need to work real hard to get beckum on the feild as much as possible

Albert Pujols + a glove = Ike Davis

by Plaxico Burress on May 27, 2010 10:29 AM EDT reply actions

plus with that combo of size and speed

he should easily get free from linebackers covering him.. there really should be one person on the D that could cover Beckum play after play.. hes too big for CBs and too fast for LBs

Albert Pujols + a glove = Ike Davis

by Plaxico Burress on May 27, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions

Shouldnt be one person***

Albert Pujols + a glove = Ike Davis

by Plaxico Burress on May 27, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions

Tough call

My guess is that neither of these players will have much of an impact this year, but if I had to pick, I’d say Barden — if they have the confidence to use him as a red zone threat. I’ve always thought the selection of Beckum was curious to say the least. He’s not a back up for Boss because of his lack of blocking skills, and we have never really used an H-back type player much. In fact, we underutilize our very skilled tight end as it is. I hope Gilbride has some ideas about finding ways to use beckum, but I’m pessimistic about that. And for the most part, if we’re going with 4 wides on any given play I’d rather have any 4 of Smith, Nicks, Manningham, Hixon and Barden on the field rather than Beckum.

by Tucker Fredrickson on May 27, 2010 10:53 AM EDT reply actions

Beckum

He had about 6 plays specifically designed for him last year so i look for about 10-12 this year because he is the definition of a mismatch, Beckum should see the field way more than Barden (who I hope sees the field alot as well) and Beckum has just as good of hands as Nicks, Boss, Smith believe it or not………….I look for him to make the same leap HAM did from year 1 to 2.

Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!

by Blue Gates on May 27, 2010 10:59 AM EDT reply actions

If we play our game.. Beckum

The stats from Eli and the WRs last year were largely the result of playing from behind. They had to chuck it from the beginning of the 2nd quarter on, in quite a few games.

If our Defense improve, like we all think it will, we should be in a much better scenario to run some clock and play a little more conservatively. Words I don’t particularly care for, but it is what traditional Coughlin and Giants football is.

This should spell fewer opportunities for a guy like Barden, and more for a TE like Beckum. Some mentioned a double TE set, I agree with both TE having the ability to get open this should loosen up the defense against the run, keeping them honest so we don’t have 8 and 9 men in the box on 1st down. therefore I think Beckum will see a good number of snaps this season.

What Travis does with those snaps has yet to be seen, and maybe Barden just becomes a guy you can’t deny, or cover, but if we’re winning games, and winning them the way we all know TC wants to win games, then I say Beckum gets a lot of chances to excell this season.

by Flynner on May 27, 2010 11:54 AM EDT reply actions

The complete Giants O needs the big man

We have talented recievers, but to compliment Eli’s sometime erratic throws would be the huge target that might develop better with Barden. With Boss at TE too, it fits Eli’s style without total reliance on precision passing.

by SJBBfan on May 27, 2010 12:48 PM EDT reply actions

Neither

In a few years, neither of these guys will be on our roster.

Barden is not going to get a sniff with our current crop of young wideouts. In additon, the Giants were not even willing to give him shots at the goal line with his size… Thats telling.

Beckum is just another undersized TE that won’t be able to make an impact because our wideouts are good, Boss is good and there is only one ball. I think if the Giants knew how our current crop of wideouts would pan out, then never would have drafted Beckum.

by dubsrub on May 27, 2010 1:11 PM EDT reply actions

Beckum is a better receiver than Boss

So I can see them doing some stuff with Beckum as the only TE in passing situations. For example a 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB set where you will likely pass it but if they put a corner back on Beckum you can do a little sweep and Beckum will be blocking a scrawny little CB

by mclaren_is_the_best on May 27, 2010 2:58 PM EDT reply actions

I don't think Beckum has proven to be a better receiver than Boss.

Not saying he might not be, but he sure hasn’t chown it.

by blue gonz on May 27, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions

You're right

But looking at what they did in college and why they got drafted, I’d say that Beckum has way more potential as a receiver.

Also I thought Beckum did a pretty decent job last year when he played but then he got unfairly blamed for the Asante pick (which I thought was Eli’s fault) and didn’t see the field again all year. Or did he get injured?… I forget

by mclaren_is_the_best on May 28, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions

Barden

Mainly because he should be a red zone threat

Beckum may get more catches, but I could see Barden getting 5 or 6 TDs if things go his way. Also, the Giants really struggled in the red zone, so an improvement there is worth more to me than raw #’s.

by trueblue63 on May 27, 2010 3:01 PM EDT reply actions

My Opinion on Ramses should be well known

He’s one injury away from being an impact player.

What Would Matt Szczur Do?

Fact on Villanova Sports

by Hoyadestroya85 on May 27, 2010 5:00 PM EDT reply actions

Yeah...

And Rob Zatechka would have been a Pro Bowl lineman if he ever could have beat out Greg Bishop for a starting spot….

Please.

What is all the Barden speculation based on? A couple of preseason reps against third teamers and praise from this college coach?

I am convinced some people will just never get over the loss of Plaxico – Barden must be some physcological compensation for that. He never even SNIFFED the field. If you want to say he can make the rotation and beat out Hixon or Hagan as a developmental player, fine. But to say he is going to step in an be an impact player is a complete FARCE. He has NO chemistry with Eli because he has no reps with Eli, and with Smith, Nicks, Manningham and Boss Eli is not lacking choices.

by dubsrub on May 28, 2010 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions

BARDEN/BECKUM

GUYS,GUYS
ALSO LOOK AT IF WE GET PLAX BACK FOR THE 20014 SUPERBOWL SEASON OUR CHANCES ARE EVEN GREATER FOR THE BIG DANCE!
SORRY, LOYAL FAN OF GMAN PLAYER WHO DID WHAT COULD TO HELP THE TEAM BUT VICTUM TO A MISTAKE HE REGRETS AND IS PAYING FOR!
BUT ANYWAY IM HIGH ON BARDEN PLAYING WITH HICKS AND SMITH!
MARIO SEEMS TO DROP ALOT OF PASSES AT THE WRONG TIME!

by BIGPHIL737 on May 27, 2010 6:06 PM EDT reply actions

Easy on the All Caps, Big Phil

Why do people think Plax will still even have a career by 2014. He will be an old man in football terms by then.

by Ed Valentine on May 27, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions

A good thing for Beckum right now

is that Boss is out till training camp. I think Boss will be fine when he gets back, but Beckum now gets some run with the first team. And as that primary blocking TE, he gets all the reps. Could probably go a long way into developing into at least a decent blocker.

sadah tah

by FreeBradshaw on May 28, 2010 7:21 AM EDT reply actions

I was reading up on that situation

and it said that Bear was getting the 1st team reps at TE. So I don’t know if Beckum is really affected by Boss’ absence. Beckum needs to work on his blocking and he will be good money. Blocking can be taught, and like you said he is a very strong guy so I think he should show some improvement in that area this season…then he will see the field more. If he can’t catch and block, then his presence on the field will always telegraph that we’re running a pass play, or he just won’t be able to seal on running plays. But I still think Beckum will get more looks than Barden.

Goff or Dillard? That is the question.

by I_Formation27 on May 28, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Beckum said it himself....he and Boss do not play the same position.

I would probably blow a gasket if i found out Beckum was playing TE w/ the first team….as a traditional TE.

"Throw the damn ball to Kevin Boss" - Andiamo708

by andiamo708 on May 28, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions

I think Barden will be in our top 3 WR’s this year after getting a season under his belt to learn what it takes on this level.

I would also like to ask why everyone is always so down on Moss? When given an opportunity (from what I have seen) he seems to come through for us quite often. Ham on the other hand (who I think might be semi-retarded) has had a number of blunders and yet is somehow considered by most to be worthy of or top 3. Many people acknowledge that KGB doesn’t have a clue how to exploit talent but somehow Moss ends up being called a bust. I personally would hate to see him go to another team (especially one inside our division) because I think he could be great in another system (or under another OC) and would kill us if he did.

I would love to see us go 4 wide with Smith, Nicks, Barden and Moss!

by BigBlueBallin on May 28, 2010 8:00 PM EDT reply actions