Giants Grades
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 25, 2010 9:26 AM EDT
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PrintOverall, I give them a B+. While most of us can probably agree, these guys are mostly boom or bust (even for rookies) I get the sense these dudes all have good attitudes to where they will more likely fulfil their potential..or at the very least not be so black and white as to boom and bust. I think most will be solid contributers.
All of these guys, while raw, stood out on game tape for the most part. So its really not like while they're raw, they'll just doing nothing.
These guys get by on pure physical ability, so even if they don't know what they're doing...they still have natural ability that can help do what they do.
Jason Pierre Paul DE- unquestionably the most raw player in the first round. But also, quite possible the most athletic player for his size in the first round. Is it a homer to say that JPP’s got as much potential as any player in the draft? Maybe..but think about it. The things that he’s got in his favor like a quick first step, good head on his shoulders, high motor, as well as a sense that he’s gotta work hard (instead of a sense of entitlement) shows this boom or bust dude, probably ain’t gonna bust. Grade B simply cuz of his college experience
Linval Joseph DT one of if not the strongest player in the draft, the Giants hopefully get that athletic monster they’ve been missing from their DL since Fred Robbins wore down at the end of 2008. But he’s also a bit raw…little less so then JPP, and while he can’t do back flips…The Anvil is a bit of an athletic freak too Grade B+ raw player, smallish school
Chad Jones S as with the top 2 picks, Jerry Reese brings out his inner Al Davis and drafts an athletic freak. Jones is not a full time punt returner, but he did return one for a TD in a college game. He’s got excellent hands. HE’s also a baseball player who hasn’t focused on football as much as most of these prospects. Even so, Dreadlocks of Doom was that dude all over the field during LSU’s games knocking heads. Grade A- Jones was excellent when he was on the field..yet he’s still raw. And there were safeties that went ahead of him in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Jerry “The Watcher” Reese strikes again
Phillip Dillard MLB apparently, this was the Giants man for their MLB spot once McClain didn’t fall to them. The passed on Sean Lee, Brandon Spikes and even Darryl Sharpton in the 2nd and 3rd rounds..all cuz they felt Dillard would fall to them. He was in consideration for the third round as well, but they opted for a player higher on their board. Grade A If this dude was their #2 MLB, and they just sat back and waited till the 4th round? That’s genius right there even if the internet scouts aren’t as high on him
Mitch Petrus OG him an Linval will cause earthquakes in practice with all that strength (44 reps to Linval’s 39). Nasty bastard, who’s fits the Giants pulling OL scheme to a T. Could be a starter as a rook if he earns it. Or at least a goal line FB or a blocking TE. Love it. Grade A brings back some nastiness to the Giants running game
Adrian Tracy OLB/DE they brought him in for a visit, produced a ton of sacks over his career..but is going to be converted from DE to OLB. Other then that…no clue. Competition for Sintim at least, most likely special teams fodder..but I think he makes the squad. Compared to a former Giant, Reggie Torbor..which is a good thing for a 6th rounder. Grade ? B+ I guess. This was one of their targets and they got em**shrugs
Matt Dodge P With the news taht Feagles may retire, this was a need pick. This guy is rated by many as the best punter in the draft. Another ECU player, so the Giants got a 2 for one with him and The Anvil Grade A+ to get the consensus best punter in the draft, when its a need..and when other punters went ahead of him? OK
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Right on target..
You hit it pretty much on the nose on all seven.Is it possible some of these guys wont do anything?Of course it is but the Giants clearly got who they wanted and I have to say on the new gaurd Petrus I was reading somewhere that he excels when he is pulling which is very important in the Giants running game. Sometime in the near future him and Chris Snee as our two starting gaurds is going to be real sweet.
The best Giants pick
Is Mitch Petrus imo.
I was hoping he would fall to the Eagles in that round. I’m not sure he fits in with the Eagles pass-first scheme, but seeing as the interior OL was a need area for the Eagles and Petrus was the best OG on the board by far, I would’ve liked to have seen him taken by the Eagles.
As for the other players the Giants drafted… JPP, Joseph, Jones, Dillard. All are very solid players at positions that the Giants value and/or positions of need.
As an Eagles fan, of course I’m going to like the Eagles draft better, just by sheer mix of quality and quantity. But the Giants had another solid draft.
+1
for being a civilized, non-combatative eagles fan…a true rarity
not shocking:
A guy with “troll” in his sig-line giving a backhanded compliment on another team’s blog.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Apr 28, 2010 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Little too optimistic
and a bit unrealistic too
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Apr 25, 2010 10:28 AM EDT reply actions
I completely agree
Love Linval Joseph and Mttch Petrus. I also like Chad Jones but he is also boom or bust. He is physically gifted and hits but so was CC Brown. But, in the 3rd round I have no problem with it. I dont like Dillard, IMO (i know Free they dont matter to JR…but it doesnt stop you) he is another backup. He hasnt hit on a late round LB yet and I dont think he starts here. I would have ratrher gone RB depth in the 6th than another project LB. I like the punter they drafted, Feagles was great but its time to replace him.
I would give this class a C maybe even C+ with unlimited potential for a higher grade.
Yeah my bad
I should never bring that name up again. Good call.
by Giants56 on Apr 25, 2010 7:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Even the pick you despised beyond belief, the Pierre Paul pick, you rate a B
very questionable. I guess the giants coulda picked the punter in the second round and that woulda been a nice pick too…
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Apr 25, 2010 10:29 AM EDT reply actions
I guess I can't be a debbie downer for eternity
I didn’t like the pick before, didn’t like it during..and now that he’s a Giant, I still didn’t exactly praise it did I? Or did I..dunno..I don’t think I did..but apparently now I’ve done a compete 180 and am calling him the next Bruce Smith.
Whatever man….
Either way, my sentiment all along was disagreeing even with the internet scouts. JPP was widely regarded as the best pass rusher in the draft, even if he’s raw. So maybe I was wrong about him as the internet scouts..and the Giants scouts, are right about him.
He’s on my team now. I save the hate for the other teams.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 25, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Definitely the right approach.
We all can’t be on a constant negative bent like a handfull of posters on here(You know who you are) that constantly state that this players sucks or that player sucks.
Hopefully(an sometimes questionably) we are all NY Football Giants fans and will get behind the team and root for the new guys as well as our veterans. I get so f’n tired of all the negativity and doom and gloom some portray on this and every other site that indiscriminately permits content from all walks of life.
I somewhat agree with all of your grades, but here is my take:
JPP: (B) He only gets a B because DE was not as glaring a need and he was plan B. He’s shown enough potential to draft
Joseph: (A) Tremendous value that will have a huge impact on run downs. This puts every DT on notice
Jones: (B+) A little raw, but tremendous upside once he’s 100% playing football and a second round value.
Dillard: (B) Also a plan B, but if JR says he was their 2nd MLB on his board and a 3rd Rd. value I’m with him.
Petrus: (B) From what I’ve seen, he has all the things we look for in O-line depth and potential. A nasty streak addition.
Tracy: © I really don’t know how many projecting players we can use and I’m not sure this wasn’t a wasted pick.
Dodge: (B) Considering the news about Feags, this was a need pick. I’m just not big on drafting any kind of kicker.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I think one of the points of Tracy
and even Dillard and Jones…probably even JPP and Joseph as well, is about Special Teams.
Lets be honest, aside from I guess MLB, there’s really not a ton of starting spots..regardless of if they had 10 first rounders, I doubt they were starting.
The Giant special teams sucked. As bad as the defense they were. All these guys are big and fast and like to get their noses dirty as far as mixing it up.
All are competition at their spots of course, and maybe even some are good enough to beat out someone on the roster, but even if they don’t all these dudes are the types that can make the special teams a strength of the squad.
That can’t be underrated.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 25, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
1,000% agree.
I had that as an underlying theme in my mock for that exact reason. Although we didn’t get the type of returner I would have liked, we definitely improved our ST coverage & blocking corps. I magine the look in the eyes of a returner with JPP bearing down on him at warp speed. Priceless!!!
Bleeding Blue since 1962
While you must be able to play special teams to make it as a backup (See Ramses Barden), you must also be able to mke it as a backup to play special teams (See David Tyree). Who on our current LB core (now with the addition of Dillard) are you removing from the roster so that Tracy can play special teams?
they removed Antonio Pierce (MLB) and probably Danny Clark (SLB)
So that’s 2 spots. Wilkinson comes back so maybe that’s one spot.
Who knows? I woulda cut Wilkinson a long time ago, but they’re giving him a chance.
There’s spots for em. I dunno if I have to remove anybody. Maybe they go with a young dude instead of Blackburn?
Who do you let go?
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 25, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not ready to cut Blackburn
He has been a solid special teamer for us (didn’t he go to the pro bowl for ST?), and a great reserve LB filling in at every spot. The guy plays with 250% heart too, so a rookie would have to be very impressive to get his spot to me. Wilk I too am surprised is still around with all the injuries, but sadly as we come out of the draft with just Dillard, Wilk is the best MLB on the team. I think we are praying he stays healthy and starts there.
Sorry forgot to say who that means we let go
that would be Tracy. I don’t think he makes the team.
It all depends on the number of spots.
Last year the LB’s they had were Clark, Sintim, Pierce, Goff, Boley, Kehl Blackburn and then DeOssie.
Clark and Pierce are gone, Wilkinson, Dillard and Tracy are in. So while I agree with you, its likely that Tracy may be cut.
But Kehl hasn’t exactly been a star has he? Wilkinson if he’s healthy could make Kehl expendable, or maybe they just IR him to keep him?
Or since DeOssie is nothing more then a LS, maybe Jay Alford can take that roll full time (I know DeOss is Pro Bowl caliber…but c’mon…..)?
No one’s really safe. I don’t even think Boley’s safe.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 25, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
LS is important
Alford did it admirably for a bit, but I’d rather he focus on being a terror up the middle. Your LS often can win or lose the game for you (well more like lose if he screws up and give the opportunity to win if he doesn’t).
I guess Kehl would be the most likely of existing to go if Tracy is something more than I think he is. Kehl has been another square peg in a round hole since he was a 34 OLB. I guess if you are going to make room for a new square peg you get rid of the old one.
lol
square peg.
Coming from the “draft Weatherspoon” dude.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 25, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Moving a guy from Will to Mike
is nothing compared to moving a guy from DE to LB. You gotta give me that. Reese and co. apparently have no issue with taking a guy who played at Will for the Mike either since Dillard started 8 of his 12 games last season at Will, so for all the crap I took for wanting Weatherspoon the Giants went ahead and drafted a Will to play Mike, just a far less talented one.
in the 4th round
vs. the 1st round, something I had no problem with doing in the 4th round (or even the 2nd round which I had no problem with Darryl Washington there)
And many SAM’s in the NFL have done exactly what Sintim’s doing.
Tracy’s a 6th rounder too.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 25, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah
because they appear so worried about the risk of a player making the transition in the first round right? JPP is a risk to play football period, Spoon would have been a player for you somewhere. They decided to go JPP and that is their choice. Obviously they had him ranked high enough and thought the potential reward was worth the risk, but don’t feed me a line about being worried about the “risk” of moving a player from Will to Mike.
I don't think they even considered drafting Spoon
for the reasons I said about the transitioning, and also possibly for the reason that his character turned them off (judging by all their picks..I’d say so)
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they "consider" everyone
He obviously didn’t grade out ahead of JPP for them at that spot for whatever reason they had, and there may have been other players that graded out ahead if JPP had been gone. There is no way to know or say.
If your going to take a gamble on a 1at rounder
Then do it at a premier position. In the 4-3 MLB isn’t a high priority. The draft is a crapshoot, why roll the dice on Spoon to play MLB when it’s not his natural position and due to that most likely would be average at best. MLB prospects were not very strong this year, that’s why they fell. If Sean Lee and Spikes were so dominant, then why didn’t they get drafted in the first. We went best player available at a position the Giants value DE. I bet my ass off that when Reese drafted JPP that he thought he would bust. If you have any doubts about a player busting, you don’t draft him.
.......seems to me that
we are trying to resurrect that “Blue Storm” pash rush we had in 07 that made Tom look like Carol Brady. Im seeing mngt. predict correctly that nfc east will slowly transition from smashmouth to more vertical, {cooper to eagles, Shanahan&McNabb to Skins, Bryant to Boys} thus the quest for speed rushers & depth there, over a premier run stopping ILB, which Im not sure there was one after McClain……lets face it, if it hadn’t been for our DE’s/DL harassing Brady all game, we would have lost SB42 by 20 or more imo. Dilliard reminds me a little of London Fletcher with his size, motor & relentless pursuit. Tough to know how much “run-around” Suh helped make him look good. I like our draft, now its time to coach em up…….wonder if AP would be interested.
I think they simply went best value for them
think they wuldve taken spoon but I think if JPP was gone it was another 3 or 4 players before they wouldve taken spoon at thatpoint
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
they had JPP #6 overall in the entire draft
who knows where they had Spoon, but the value of an OLB, when you have 2 young OLB’s in Sintim and Boley..is practically nill.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Give me a "project" at a position he can play
then a player who can’t play a position, any day.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
By project
that means he currently can’t play ANY position and may NEVER play any position at an NFL level.
I don't understand what you mean sunlion
I think everybody here is def a giants fan and I’m positive we all want JPP to succeed, but that doesn’t mean we think he will. Also, we were 8-8 and gave up 40+ points 5 times so we obviously have some players that SUCK.
We all come here to discuss the Giants, are we supposed to pretend CC was ok or Michael Johnson played well? I I can teach ya. Basic moves are very easy. Strategy is the hard part. really get what you mean.
by Giants56 on Apr 25, 2010 7:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Disregard the last sentence
Accidentally pasted part of a chess txt message
by Giants56 on Apr 25, 2010 7:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It just gets irrationally brutal sometimes on here as you must agree.
I was more referring to the folks who just say something sucks without giving any support to their argument. There are also plenty of posters who just like to see their “name in lights”, so to speak, and those who just want to stir things up.
We’ve got a pretty good community here. It’s a shame some are just bent on spreading misery.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Yeah I would agree some people
Are irrationally negative at times which is unproductive. I hope I’m as wrong about JPP as I was about Steve Smith. I can admit I didn’t want to draft him I wanted Dwayne Jarrett which is embarrassing to admit.
by Giants56 on Apr 25, 2010 7:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Jarrett is just one reason I never get really down on the picks.
Besides, it’s rare that a rookie comes in and blows it up.What, maybe 4-5 players per year are studs right out of college? It takes seeing them on the field sometimes just to know how to best use them.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
We are always going to be more critical!
Overall the reception of the picks has been positive, and like us, most writers have the expectation that Jerry Reese knows what he’s doing. This year we can better grade last years picks, while next year we can do the same for this years draft. I wasn’t excited, but I believe we filled needs and built for the future. It is so difficult to draft players that effect the upcoming year, unless they are lottery picks. Free agency is used to address present needs and the draft is used build for the future.
Ya gotta root for the kid now
I thought we did well, was a bit surprised we stayed put for all 7 of our picks. Was kinda hoping to trade Sinorice for a 7th and take a flyer on Blount. You worried we didn’t get any RB depth?
I Am Tobikan Judan
RB depth
I guess it just shows they feel Andre Brown is gonna come back healthy. Kinda like McClain, the RB’s after Spiller..and maybe Ryan Matthews and Jahvid Best, probably just didn’t thrill them enough to take over the dudes they selected.
I think like basically all 32 teams, they completely crossed Blount off their list.
I am worried about it…Jake, AB and Brown’s injury history concern me, and Danny Ware and Gartrell Johnson have done squat.
Hopefully their injury luck is a whole lot better then last year.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 25, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
me 3
he was projected to be a 2nd to 3rd round pick before a lousy punch? i would’ve gotten him late, and especially when he became an UDFA. but it is what it is, i’m confident in what we have.
if anything can be said good about Andre’s injury, is that it happened basically a season and a half ago. so he’s had plenty of time to recover.
I give it a C-, maybe a D
The first three picks were Al Davis picks. What do I mean by that? They all are described as “raw” rough around the edges" “lacking technique and experience” but are “great athletes” “physical specimens”. Reese went 3 in a row picking athltes instead of football players. Hopefully, the staff can tunr them into football players, but taking that risk with all top three picks is foolish. Add that all three picks are at positions that are “supposed” to be set, and these guys are just going to be backups. We spent big money on S this year, big money on DT last year, and we already have too many guys wanting to start at DE and those are the three spots you go in the top 3?
Another late round backup LB yippee skippee. Dillard himself isn’t a bad pick in the 4th as a backup and special teams player. He is a bad pick for the giants though because we already have too many of those guys. We really didn’t need another. I don’t buy that he was the #2 MLB on their board. If he was they suck at making boards. Reese seems obsesed with thinking he can find a diamond in the rough LB. He’s failed how many times over?
Petrus, ok I actually like this pick. Quality OL depth. Maybe bcomes more. Good goalline blocking TE option.
Tracy, WTF! Come on, obsession #2 of Reese, playing DEs as LBs. First it was Kiwi, then he drafts SIntim, now Tracy. Did Reese not play with that toy where you put the shapes through the holes when he was a kid? Square pegs don’t fit in round holes.
Punter, ok if Feagles is going to retire I’ll give you this one.
half right, half wrong
These guys are Al Davis types, but none were overdrafted. That is the big difference. All of these guys went where the talent boards had them. JPP needs experience, Joseph better coaching, Jones no longer has to worry about baseball. Dillard was highly rated, more so than Kehl or Goff.
These negatives you point out are reasons they did not go higher. Did you expect 7 rounds where we would get players with 1st-round grades? No one on ESPN or NFLN had a problem with these picks. Joseph is a beast. Everyone loves him. Dillard was rising up the boards recently. Most people had Jones in the 2nd, and Petrus earlier than 5.
I pointed out in another post here that a lot of us wanted Chaney in the 3rd or 4th. He went in the 7th. So it looks like none of the professionals agreed with us armchair QBs.
I wouldn't mind
taking one or even two gambles on the high risk/reward type players out of the top three. Jones being the one I feel best about because the 3rd round is a good place to take that gamble. However, what I find irresponsible is to gamble all top three picks. People will talk about how these guys might have huge potential after coaching and a year or two of experience. That’s all well and good, but I’m of the philosophy that you need to get at least one player out of those top three picks who is going to make a contribution to the team sooner rather than later.
I didn’t expect 7 first rounders. I expected a mixture of quality high chance to contribute early prospects, projects, backups and speical teamers. We skipped the first one.
By the way, I was one of the ones saying it would be a reach to go for Chaney in the 3rd or the 4th.
Every player is a gamble in some fashion
How many of even the first rounders turn into good football players? JPP can be called a gamble. But I have not seen any of the other guys referred to in those terms. They are not risks, they are still “growing” or whatever you want to call it.
I cheered every pick in rounds 2-5. Because I thought those picks were needs, and I was glad that the Giants saw the same needs as I did, and picked the solutions that they thought were best.
the first overall pick of this draft is considered a gamble by some
outside of Suh, and maybe McCoy, i’d say the remaining 200+ players were gambles. that’s what makes the draft so much fun. they all have warts, but what combination of player/team/coaches will burn them off, and keep them off.
Not football players?
These guys have dominated in the little time of college productivity. More exposure, good coaching, or did you forget we ain’t the effing Raiders. Coaching gets you places in this league. Didn’t TC lead us to a victory over an undeafeated, everyone best team ever, Patriots. Weren’t there alot of rookies on that team that contributed alot that year?
the Raiders can be good if they actually had a QB
and especially with Cable there..who I think is a decent enough coach.
Sometimes being a productive “football player” in college, means your maxed out and won’t dominate when you aren’t the best player on the field?
Looking at the NYG’s….I really don’t see many physical freaks out there..do you? Do we have any 6"5 330lbs dudes running sub 5.0 40’s? What about dude’s that can do backflips (its funny of course..but think of the athleticism it takes).
We got a bunch of blocks of clay. Supposedly we got some good coaches. Let em do what they do.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 25, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
He ain't bad,
But years of low quality head coaches, which is due to bad ownership have kept big name coaches who have already established themselves away form Oakland. The Skins will be a playoff caliber team within a few years with Shanahan. Oakland we will see what happens. Bad number 1 QB picks can be disasterous though, there’s no denying that.
Need athletes
I think the focus on guys with monster athletic skill was the right approach for this draft. Last year we had guys like Pierce, Clark and Blackburn at linebacker much of the time. They’re football players, but watching them struggle to shed blocks or cover people was depressing. Cofield and Bernard at tackle — football players yes, but not the most athletic guys on the planet. Michael Johnson, Aaron Rouse, same thing. This team needed an infusion of fast, tough rugged players and that’s what it got. I’m sure not all of these picks will pan out — they seldom all do, but I feel pretty confident we’re going to end up with at least three guys who start or at least get significant playing time within two years.
I agree that Tracy was a wasted pick. I’m not a big fan of trying to convert players to new positions and there were lots of other positions where we could have used some more competition — but 6th rounders are a long shot anyway so this didn’t bother me too much.
Given what they’ve done, I’m not really too worried about the middle linebacker situation. With a beefed up D-line there won’t be much pressure on that position and whoever plays it is likely to only be a two down player anyway.
by Tucker Fredrickson on Apr 25, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I really can't wait to see
how Perry Fewell develops Chad Jones. He made Jairus Byrd a rookie sensation last year, and I have a feeling he can really bring the best out of CJ.
- Mohamed Sanu: A Giant in Two Years-
This was an extremely deep draft
I see no reason why these guys won’t be starting within the next few years. JPP based on sheer talent and tools to dominate. Linval is massive, 330 pound run stuffer. We needed one of them. Chad Jones is KP insurance, and with Fewell back there coaching him, there’s no reason to not like his chances. Reese seems to regard Dillard very highly, feels he can compete to start, if not, it will motivate Goff to step up. Everyone here seems to think Petrus can start very soon, he will be learning alot that first year, but he will get spot duty like Beatty did last year. And Dodge, with Feagles possible retirement this is an issue of need. We got the best one in the draft. I’m not listing Tracy because Sintim is going to dominate this year.
I think Tracy we're gonna really like for ST's duty.
He was a team leader at W&M and seems to be one of those dudes that want to be the first one down the field on a punt or kick.
Either way, he seems like a hard worker. So if Sintim does what we all want him to do, give some credit to Tracy.
Competition is always a good thing and that’s what Tracy is.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 25, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I get ya but I meant starting
If you consider ST starting well I can see your point but competition is always good. I don’t get why everyone thinks that said player can only play one position when he can be taught how to have multiple responsibilities. Don’t you want your TE to be able to block, pick up the blitz, have great hands and field vision, Excellent speed and size. Some are coachable( the first 2) some are just pure talent or ability(2nd 2). Well expect these guys to learn first, a new system and terminology, their assignments so to say.
Even though
i didnt like this draft at first, due to JPP, i turned out to really like it. picks 2-5 all satisfied me and i have a feeling all of those players will contribute to the giants a lot. And after bashing JPP on draft night, i have to say i am kinda starting to like the idea of having him on our team. He is really athletic and we do have a lot of people at the DE spot in case he doesnt do what we expect him to. i hope he is the next Michael Strahan, he just better not hurt himself doing one of those backflips
Right on
That’s the same grade i gave the giants in an earlier post…..B+ all the way
Still don't like the JPP pick
But he’s a Giant so we all have to give him a chance. Rest of the picks are solid. I love Joesph and Jones could be a pretty damn good safety. I really hope Kenny Phillips can in someway contribute this season, that would be sick.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
most all internet scouts
are giving the gmen the 3rd best grade in the nfc east, and about 11th-12th overall, but we’re basically the only ones where they say has room for A+ potential.
Introducting: Jason Fear-Paul
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 25, 2010 6:42 PM EDT reply actions
and that's all that really matters doesn't it?
If these guys pan out, we may just have the best draft of them all.
Looking at our 2007 draft grade..it seemed most said all our picks were reaches, not starters and was basically a “meh” draft that did nothing but fit needs.
I’d rather have a C+ or B- draft, simply cuz its “boom or bust” that has the potential to be an A+
much better then a draft that’s a B that only has the chance to be a B+
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 25, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly what I had in mind,
I mean, what’s the point in this whole thing if you’re just aiming for mediocrity?
Introducting: Jason Fear-Paul
by BigBlueIntervention on Apr 25, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Mediocrity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone busting
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
odds are not everyone will bust though
we can easily sign mediocre free agents any off season. If JPP becomes what some people think he can become and everyone else fails to become anything more than depth we’ll be in a better situation than if everyone was mediocre.
I doubt everyone's busting
Of course I doubt everyone’s a super star, but I mean…the biggest busts are those dudes required to start right away.
All our top 3 picks, we got a lot of players to throw in the mix, so its really not like if they go out there and stink up a play…that they can’t be taken out and yelled at..or something like that.
You know..I’d say that if the Giants drafted Ro McClain, he’d have a better chance of busting…simply cuz he’d most likely be forced to start regardless of whether he’s ready or not.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 25, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Def
And JPP will be in an environment, where there will not be pressure to produce immediately. Plus defensive players dont have the pressure and scrutiny that offensive players have to endure. I think that everyone has the expectation that JPP will need time to progress to the level he is capable of. Plus our weakest defensive position safety, might potentially be our strongest this year.
Look at the teams that always draft safe players
Teams like jacksonville. They dont take enough risks. They are a perennial 6 to 9 win team and their fanbase never has anything to be excited about.
The Colts
have always drafted based upon football talent rather than height/weight/workouts formulas and they’ve done pretty well. I’d say the Patriots are another team that goes after football players more than raw athletes and also does quite well.
That's cause the Eagles had a bajillion picks and Dallas had Dez basically fall to them
We quietly went about our business. And with good coaching this potential could be excellent.
Hence the basically
I know they traded up. But Dez fell to #24. And a four spot move up will not kill you.
Eagles draft was strange
Yeah, they picked some good players. If you don’t take into account their roster. Who is the starting CB opposite Samuel? Is Andrews healthy enough to start? Because he has to. How many roster spots will DEs have? Will they keep 6-7? Their DEs had 30+ sacks last year. Picking all these guys basically means Cole will be sitting more. Fine by me.
I guess Hamlin from Clemson is Dallas’ FS by default. Free is the LT whether he is ready or not.
Giants at least attempted to fill all important holes. I know you don’t draft for need, but you do have to fill those needs.
They played their game....and did it well
I’ve always admired how the eagles draft. They move around alot, but always seem to get the guy they wanted…..Obviously, when you trade back you risk losing a player you covet, but they seem to strike a good balance.
For example, they were pretty high on Graham and thought we and other teams were too, so they moved up and paid for it….
But then they started trading back…..repeatadly…… and they turned the 55th overall pick into:
- Daniel Te’o Neshaim
- Mike Kafka
- Clay Harbor
- Ricky Sapp
- Riley Cooper
- 2011 5th round pick
Thats amazing….As much as I hate saying it. Kudos to them.
I'd give this draft a B-
of course things will change as the players actually get on the field and as they (hopefully) mature but this is my first assessment of it.
I was a bit disappointed that they focused so heavily on defense, just like last year most of their picks were on offense.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Apr 25, 2010 9:39 PM EDT reply actions
agree on the offense thing
woulda been nice to see something like Dixon in the 5th, then maybe Petrus falls in the 6th? I guess they feel Andre Brown’s gonna be fine, which they’d know more then all of us.
I think they signed a blocking TE too, so they got that where it should be..UDFA. Or even Petrus can be that if he’s not the starting LG.
And I think you also gotta count Beckum and Barden as ‘redshirt’ dudes from last year, so even without drafting them this year, they added basically 3 players.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 25, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Mike Matthews got cut by the Lions too
I wonder if the Giants tried to get him off waivers. He went to Buffalo though.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Apr 25, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
MY Giants draft eval
I’m not getting sucked into alphabetical grades….we all agree they’re dumb…With that said, for better and worse this was a quintessential reese draft…Sure we would of all loved to snag McClain, but he was taken earlier than expected and given his absence they stuck to their board.
I woulda loved to see Reese and Co. move around a bit, but thats never been a large part of their game-plan….and i can live with that
In regards to JPP… while DE is obviously not a position of need, IMO they saw a potential star at a position they covet and are taking a calculated risk. He’ll be given the time to learn behind the best group of DE’s in the league. It’s a perfect scenario for him. Lets see how it plays out.
I don't think DE is a "need"
but the overall idea, pass rush, is a need. For whatever reason they didn’t get there last year, and JPP while of course raw, was regarded as the best pass rusher in the draft even if they just put all these guys on the field.
Could he play 3 downs like Brandon Graham or Derrick Morgan right away? No, I don’t think so.
But to let dudes like Kiwi, Tuck and/or Osi play 2 downs..then just figure how to get him out there and pin his ears back…sure, why not?
Maybe a dude even in 2010 with JPP’s current skill set, is better for the team then someone like Morgan or Graham?
He’s a situational dude right now and I don’t think he’s gotta develop into that. His development is becoming more complete as a run defender.
So maybe he could actually contribute right away more then we thing? Who knows?
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 25, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
One good thing is
JPP can learn from 2 of the better pass rushers in the league. Osi was very raw and relied on his speed rush and developed counter moves from Strahan. Tuck was also raw and learned from the master.
by Giants56 on Apr 25, 2010 11:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He will learn from all of them not just the pass rusher
He is a complete DE who can learn from Canty, Tuck, Kiwi, Sintim, Bernard all of them, Pass rushing knowledge doesnt have to come from a pass rusher
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
What counter does Osi have??
Ive never seen it, he just wins with one move more times than not in my evaluation
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Screw "Needs"
You dont bring your Depth Chart to the draft especially in rounds 1 and 2
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
You dont buddy especially when your a good team
Your a fool if you do because then you really really reach for players to fill needs even when there are waaaaay better players at other positions of not so much need, why am i explaining my self when it just took place…
Example:
If we brought our depth chart we wouldve probably selected Sean lee or Spikes @ 15 because they were the next best MLB’s and we would seem to “need” one to most! but we went with JPP someone who plays a position where have bickering all ready and not to mention 3 very very good players.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Marc Ross said that you get in trouble drafting for need, so "you don't bring you depth chart into the war room"
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Maybe that's his belief
other folks obviously believe differently. You can get into trouble ignoring need as well. Only time will tell if this draft works out or not for us, but let’s not pretend like teams don’t go into the draft thinking about their needs.
Of course
but Need does not trump talent when the talent is faaar above the need player, but believe what u may.
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Giants had needs all over the field one year
they had a stacked LB corps, including this LT guy. What did they do? Draft Carl Banks #4 overall of course. Turned out alright I guess.
Drafting for “need” bites you in the ass more so then drafting a better player. And why are we still even worried about this?
There was no player in teh first round that fit their need, which was MLB. In 2nd round, they had Usain Bolt sprint in there to get that pick in so fast….and no, it wasn’t our MLB..in was Big Anvil. That’s how high they rated him.
They even had the finger on the Phillip Dillard trigger in the 3rd. What did they do? Select the higher rated player of course. Who knows how high they had Chad Jones…but it had to be high.
They knew what their need was. They knew damn well that MLB spot is a hole.
They got their #2 rated MLB in the 4th round.
Maybe they played with fire a bit by not getting him in the 2nd or 3rd round…but they got him in the 4th.
Even tho JPP is a “project”, he’s not a reach for them. #6 overall player, at #15..is a steal. But just since he’s not experienced, they got a B+ cuz that’s your first rounder.
But the 2nd round and beyond gets an A+++++. You bypass your highest rated MLB on the board..twice, yet still get him in the 4th round?
For real?
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Carl Banks played opposite of LT
so they weren’t that stacked.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Apr 26, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
But they WERE pretty stacked with LT, Carso, Reasons, Headen and Hunt.
The point is there was no need at LB before the draft but Banks value was too much to pass up.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I've heard the same quote, almost verbatim from some legendary ex-GM's
The big difference is that every teams draft board are tailored to different parameters including position value, scheme and roster needs. Pass rushers tend to be a universal theme, especially the way the league is trending.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
PR statements
and guys have been on here justifying the JPP and Joseph pcisk as needs, so whatever. We’ve gone over this too many times already before the draft on BPA vs need, so no point in starting it up again. I think we are all not naive enough to believe that need plays no part in the decision making for the majority of teams and I’ll leave it at that.
and what would we have said if they drafted Dillard in the 2nd round?
Would a collective WTF groaned out among us?
Aint that similar to the WTF groan the Jags fans did when Tyson Alualu got drafted #10 overall?
We don’t know going into the draft, what the board looked like. But you can get a sense after, and especially JR and Ross’ words after show how they worked the draft board.
The Giants rarely draft a complete bust in the top 4 rounds since JR’s been here. Guy Whimper really. The others really just have been injury prone like Ross or KP.
They know what they’re doing
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
disagree completely...heres why
Despite what may be said, i doubt any team takes a “strict BPA” approach to drafting. More often than not, teams look for players that have good value at a certain pick range. Then they weigh that with their teams need, the depth of talent at that position, and the overall positional value (LT>LG, CB>S, QB>all, etc…).
This is generally why we hear teams talk about their draft board in “tiers” or “rows”. Essentially, its an ordinal form of measurement, not cardinal. By doing so, it provides teams flexibility and maneuverability in selecting players.
If teams, say us, took a strict BPA approach, I’d doubt we’d have selected Nicks or Phillips. But we did, and did so wisely, because these guys provided surplus value that we’d realize (and other teams would not) because of the specific needs of our team.
I could go on and provide plenty of other examples, but i think the point is clear.
JR of course said it best
its a balance.
You balance value with need. Most would say teh linezbackaz is our need…but well..there’s no value there in the 1st round.
DL was a need. Improving that is a need. Maybe LB was as glaring a hole as it was to some fans (I ain’t one to say LB is a glaring hole tho…) but the value of the players at those spots…was not there.
The value of JPP and Joseph in the 1st and 2nd outweighed the value and need over any single LB in the 1st 2 rounds.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 27, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
I think that the giants situtation for JPP is one of the few scenarios that make sense for him. A team with a need for DE, would probably be pretty peaved in selecting a project. he is first round talent that will have time to develop into something nasty!!!
they were real high on JPP
I could see that they too had him as a top 10 pick.
And just like with Nicks last year..stolen (hopefully they really did steal the right player again..)
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we may do some of that too
not permanent of course, but throw him out there and let em pin his ears back
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
They did the Titans
wanted nicks and JPP badly they have made no secret about that but Britt and Morgan are very very solid players, they are just not the potential dominators that nicks and JPP will be
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Think that your grades are pretty on
One thing you noted but didn’t highlight
Many of these guys are nasty and Giants played a bit soft last year.
I think that an unspoken theme of this draft, bring in some guys that will smack the opposition in the face and say, get ready for some of that all day.
defintely.
Even JPP, he seems like a happy go lucky kid, but really when he gets those pads on..kinda like Tebow..he goes nuts. Joseph, Jones, Dillard and Petrus like to knock heads. Even Tracy tho I ain’t to sure of him, I think he was a team captain on W&M, so there.
And Matt Dodge will actually try to hit you on ST. I’d love to see him hit DJAX on a return (hopefully not after a long return tho)
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea
We takin heads off, I think there was a premium on toughness and aggressive attitudes in this draft, look at all of our picks thats what they have in common, aggression and toughness something we lacked
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
D+ overall
Maybe your one of those people who dnt watch college football, just grades drafts but its ur opinion, if we got a D, give me 5 teams with a higher grade from you??….. im just curious to see!!!
Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!
Give us why you think we had such a poor draft
Just giving us a D+ does not make sense. Explain how you came to this conclusion otherwise I’m not buying it.
You're not buying what?
Who the shit are you? You want a quick run down?
JPP – Risk, little experience. Unnecessary position to draft.
L. Joseph – DT is fine with me, but I still would have gone ILB.
C. Jones – Awesome.. a safety. I mean, we didn’t sign Antrel Rolle or have Kenny Phillips coming back this season. Depth is good, but when you still need LB’s.. not a smart choice.
P. Dillard – Well, what do you know. We drafted a linebacker.. in the 4th fucking round.
M. Petrus – OL depth is fine with me.
A. Tracy DE/OLB.. yay, a project. Poor man’s Kiwi.
M. Dodge A punter. We need one. Fine.
Happy? This draft sucked. I love the Giants, and I’m glad you do too. I, however, can look at this team from outside of my boner-colored glasses.
I'd assume if they drafted LB's in the top 4 rounds
you;d be happy?
What about if they just said JPP is a LB, Linval is a LB and Chad Jones is a LB? Is that better?
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
well..who then?
We’re assuming that MLB is the need spot right? Sintim and Boley aren’t exactly All-Pros, but there’s no reason to give up on them is there? Or is there?
Weatherspoon was the name out of most peoples mouth in the first round…but he’s not a MLB. He’s Boley. THAT is a waste of a pick.
2nd round? Spikes? Glaciers are quicker and faster. I’d have jumped off the Verezano if they drafted him
Sean Lee? Mr. Glass is more durable. He may be good. But we’ll be seeing Goff more then him anyway all he does is get hurt.
Pat Angerer? I don’t get him in the 2nd..and him including and up to Dillard..I don’t think any are all that much better if at all then Dillard as a potential prospect.
It was McClain…or basically someone like Dillard. Anything else would simply be drafting a LB for the sake of drafting a LB.
I didn’t exactly love the JPP pick. But I’ll take JPP every day and twice on Sunday over someone like Weatherspoon…someone who’s not even close to the best player available and doesn’t play a position of need…and really can’t play the position we’d be projecting him to.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
So you were on board with draft a DE in the first round since McClain wasn't there?
Come on… seriously?
absolutely.
I would’ve drafted Derrick Morgan if the draft fell to me this way..but that’s me. I haven’t done a spec of the research the Giants have done on this.
But absolutely. DE was fine with me. A DT like Dan Williams was fine…but I thin the JPP/Joseph deal is better then a Williams..whoever else in the 2nd.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure that Linval isn't a better prospect than Williams
Williams hasn’t demonstrated any penetration pass rush ability
Joseph has flaws that need to be addressed, but he is quicker and nimbler and has the potential to disrupt with more than bulk.
I was thinking Morgan to
DE is a huge value to the Giants success. What can’t you understand about that? We didn’t have all pro LBs when we won SB42. We did have all pro lineman though. One was a future HoF. We are using that method of success. Do you not comprehend that if our Dlineman win the battle in the trenches, the pressure it takes off our LBs & DBs. JPP>Spoon based on value. A SLB/WLB is not valued as much as a DE in the 4-3. Joseph>Spikes or Lee. Spikes and Lee would not start for the Giants. Joseph will get plenty of snaps. DT>MLB in terms of value. So we did not reach. You don’t know what Reeses draft board looks like. Neither do I, but I get the emphasis we place on winning in the trenches. So that leaves Dillard in the 3rd. We clearly had CJ ranked much higher than Dillard, or Reese was confident he would be there in the 4th round. CJ is KP insurance, and if KP comes back we then have a guy who will be able to fill in at times.
and how is Chad Jones not a smart choice?
it was either Phillip Dillard or Chad Jones in the 4th.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
that's why I corrected it
Dillard or Jones in the 3rd.
But they got Dillard in the 4th. That’s what we call a win. Or not cuz we didn’t get teh linezbacka in the 3rd round
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
You're acting like I'm the only person who didn't like our draft
when it’s actually the majority thought.
You're the only one here.
And while I don’t really go for the player, JPP…I have no problem whatsoever with the idea that they had.
I wanted the MLB in the first round…but soon as Ro McClain was gone..I knew there was one.
Those complaining either say they don’t like JPP or they wanted teh linebacker.
I can side with those that don’t really like JPP. I’m liking it more and more taht I hear about him..but I can see this side of it.
But I disagree 100000% with those wanting the linebacker over anything else. There just was no one there to draft for LB, especially in the first.
And while I wouldn’t have minded Sean Lee in round 2…I can see why they passed on him. And he was really it, there were no others I would’ve been OK with.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
and the thing
about chad jones being taken in the third, sorry but thats a bad arguement, Perry Fewell likes to use 3 safties at times and KP is coming off what some might consider a career threatining injury so we definatly do want to draft a saftey. Plus just because we signed Grant doesnt mean squat. he is old, solid depth at most
how so?
We 1/2 of a safety with KP coming back..the rest are nothing.
Rolle was signed, that makes 1 1/2 safey. So they signed Grant for a backup and drafted Chad Jones for insurance.
Also given the fact that Fewell likes to use 3 safeties a lot……getting a dude like Chad Jones not only was a need, it was a pressing one.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 27, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
1/2 a safety?
That argument is weak sauce.
Rolle, Phillips, Grant. You’re confusing “need” with “depth.” Then you called it a “pressing need.” No, replacing Antonio Pierce was a NEED. Finding a DT was a NEED.
DE and S were not needs.
JPP, nice player.. nice upside..
not a need.
Trade down and get Dan Williams or Jared Odrick if you have to. Draft Sean Weathersppon.
They got Linval Joseph
better upside then Williams, and Odrick is overvalued as a pick because he’s a 3-4 DE.
As a DT for us, he’d be 2nd or 3rd rounder.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 27, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
you can't just say trade down and get this guy
the draft just doesn’t work that way
yea..you can rely on KP being 100%
the Giants are doing the smart move and drafting insurance and depth.
And…the hell is the point on Chad Jones? They either draft Dillard or Jones in that spot. And they got both. Do you not understand this still?
Sean Weatherspoon is the water of sauces. It does not get any weaker then that idea.
He’s not a MLB, he does NOT solve the MLB spot at all…all he does is make a guy move out of position, or force us to cut Michael Boley..creating another hole.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 27, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
x
Sean Weatherspoon is the water of sauces. It does not get any weaker then that idea.
He’s not a MLB, he does NOT solve the MLB spot at all…all he does is make a guy move out of position, or force us to cut Michael Boley..creating another hole.
Then you trade down, and acquire more picks. You don’t blow our most important pick on “high upside, raw” players in a position that’s not a need. We had a few needs coming into the draft, and you know how many we filled by picking JPP? Zero.
wrong.
main need going into the draft = improve team.
Giants bread and buttter = pass rush.
JPP = pass rusher.
Giants improved. Check – yes. Mate? We’ll see.
Also, you can’t just click your heels like Dorothy and trade down. Doesn’t work like that.
Weatherspoon, an OLB, doesn’t improve the team.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 27, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Giants bread and buttter = pass rush.
JPP = pass rusher.
Nice argument. No, I’m serious.. were you on a debate team?
Also, you can’t just click your heels like Dorothy and trade down. Doesn’t work like that.
It could have been done.
Giants improved. Check – yes
How does JPP improve our team next season? Do you feel as though JPP will be better than Osi, Tuck, or even Kiwi next year?
Just so you know
Trading down isn’t as easy as we make it out to be. Someone else has to want to trade up and give enough back.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
We got 10 minutes to shop that pick
I’m sure Reese fielded several offers, and there wasn’t one that he liked more than taking JPP.
Why are you so offended that I didn't like our draft?
You have no effing idea what you’re talking about.
How am I supposed to take you seriously as a sports fan when you say things like:
I get the sense these dudes all have good attitudes to where they will more likely fulfil their potential
The things that he’s got in his favor like a quick first step, good head on his shoulders, high motor, as well as a sense that he’s gotta work hard (instead of a sense of entitlement) shows this boom or bust dude, probably ain’t gonna bust.
You know for a fact he doesn’t have a sense of entitlement? Are you close buddies with JPP? That’s called conjecture.
Grade A If this dude was their #2 MLB, and they just sat back and waited till the 4th round? That’s genius right there even if the internet scouts aren’t as high on him
What the hell did you just say right there?
Also, if he "probably ain't gonna bust"
then stop calling him a boom or bust prospect. They’re all boom or bust, and as much upside as he has, he’s a risk too.
Free is offended if you disagree with him period
It really matters not what you disagree about…
Honestly, I'm sorry I slammed you.
You’re probably a nice guy. Didn’t mean to get all huffy and puffy about it.
its all good man
I can sort of understand where your coming from..and I take nothing personal.
I just feel that the overall defense is what needed an infusion of talent…not just a particular group of players (LB’s).
That’s all.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 27, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
you should read a bit about JPP's background
Its hard to get a sense of entitlement in a Haitian neighborhood with gangs
Safety was a huge need
Did you see Michael Johnson, or Rouse last year? Were they even visible? They had no impact at all. We got Rolle and Grant who are healthy. Ideally KP comes back but we must plan that he won’t be ready, because it’s safe to do so. So our 2 starters are Grant and Rolle with MJ and Rouse. I don’t think I’m the only one who does not want to see MJ or Rouse getting snaps. So yeah safety was a need or did you forget how many 40 spots we gave up last year?
Jerry takes the long-term view
Like Ed says, we can’t judge this years draft until somewhere down the line, maybe 2012. But we can grade the philosophy. In 2007 Jerry went for immediate impact players because we had lots of holes, and Eli needed someone to throw to. Smith, Boss and Bradshaw were immediate impact offensive players. In 2008 we could alread start to invest in the future, and we took guys like Thomas and Manningham that needed a year or two to develop. In 2009 we took guys like Barden, Sintim, Beckum, and Beatty that will take 2 to 3 years to develop. In 2010 we took Juniors that may take 3 years or more to develop, as the roster is getting pretty full. And where would we like these juniors to learn and risk injury, in college or under our coaches?
In most cases you cannot wait until you don’t have an MLB to pick the next one, they need time to be able tolearn to read NFL offenses. I can only think of Patrick Willis recently as an exception. Our mistake wasn’t this year, it was in 2006 when we took Moss and Wilkinson and Whimper instead of a stud MLB who could learn under AP.
This year 2010, I would give a very strong B in philosophy.
The 2006 draft I now feel like I can judge, and it was a D- for not getting us a MLB that AP could groom
by Spider Lockhart on Apr 26, 2010 9:21 PM EDT reply actions
you really grade the 2006 draft a D-?
why didn’t they at least try to get one to groom? They drafted Gerris Wilkinson that year. Obviously Moss sucks, Whimper too. But Kiwi and Cofield have been players and starters either they’re whole careers or are starting caliber. Not exactly an A+..but I can’t see how a draft that gets 2 starting caliber players doesn’t at least get a B+.
And its not anyone’s fault then Gerris himself and bad injury luck that he’s been hurt all the time
And actually…Gerris was a big part of the Super Bowl run…so I wouldn’t call him a bust at all.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
IMO the 2006 draft was a C
Kiwi is average, S.Moss sucks (and we traded up for him), Wilkinson has been hurt and hasn’t done anything, Cofield is a decent starter, and then the rest of draft was a bunch of training camp/practice squad fodder
by mclaren_is_the_best on Apr 26, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Well a C from you
is probably a B+ in reality, so I’ll take that.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd give 2006 a C+/B-
Only 2 players, but they are at important positions.
But to be fair it was not a very strong draft.
The next pick after Kiwi was.....
DeMeco Ryans, Defensive Rookie of the year, two time pro-bowler in 4 years. And it was our true need position that year, not a tweener
by Spider Lockhart on Apr 26, 2010 9:46 PM EDT reply actions
They signed Pierce in the 2005 offseason.
there is not a single reason to rationalize drafting a MLB in the first round with a freshly signed veteran MLB.
Would Ryans or even Beason in the first, look golden on the roster now? Sure, of course. But why?
It would be like we just went out there now, signed Demeco Ryans..they drafted McClain in the first round.
And why is Kiwi labeled a tweener? Dude’s 6"5 265lbs. He’s a DE. The only reason they moved him to OLB was to get him on the field. That’s not like someone like Sintim, who was a Rush OLB in a 3-4 in college.
They never intended to move him to OLB when he was drafted.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 26, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
For MLB it would be great to sign a vet with a couple of years left and draft his replacement at the same time
I think I grade it so low becuase the draft didn’t seem to have been forward looking enough. Every draft brings some starters. The difference for me between B and D is the number of long term starters in positions that you anticipate to have needs at the moment that the players mature. Undrinkable wine in its first year in the bottle is okay, as long as when it has matured it is excellent. It does not seem that there were any pro-bowlers from that year 2006, and quite a few less than adequate, or already used up. Kiwi is very good, but not a home run.
But what my real point is I guess, is that since taking over in 2007, there does seem to be a multi-year strategy. Recovering from the previous drafts has not been easy. I love Eli and wouldn’t trade him for the world, but Rivers(Rothlisberger) + Merriman + Kaeding on the roster would have created a lot more flexibility in the following couple of years drafts. I like that JR looks ahead. With Sintim and Kiwi and Joseph and Tracy, he even seems to have anticipated that one day a defensive coach may want to go to a 3-4
by Spider Lockhart on Apr 26, 2010 11:24 PM EDT reply actions
but on the other hand...
I appreciate the emphasis on character. My stupid brother thought he was being nice when he bought me a Shockey jersey a few years back. Never wore it.
by Spider Lockhart on Apr 26, 2010 11:37 PM EDT reply actions
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- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
- Having finally landed, Kellen Winslow looks for a fresh start in Seattle
- Tim Tebow teased with chants of ‘Lolo!’ in Jets locker room
- The Shutdown Corner Podcast: Greg Cosell on the NFC South Draft
- BREAKING: Tim Tebow did not become a great quarterback today
