Putting Teeth on the Argument of McClain v. Weatherspoon
I want to thank Ed Valentine, CJMulrain, and the other editors and posters for putting together some of the best NFL off season information and opinion the web has ever seen. If it weren't for the Big Blue View, I wouldn't know half the stuff I do right now about the Giants' prospects heading into the draft this year.
Now I understand McClain might be taken before the Giants draft at #15 in a little over a week, but after watching highlights of both Rolando McClain and Sean Weatherspoon (highlights provided in links), I decided that having an honest, open discussion on both of these guys is the only true way to understand how they could contribute to the Giants vision this year. I know everyone seems to have their favorite, and it's understandable, but hopefully a guy like me (who generally had no clue until watching little more than 8 minutes of film on each player...still not much of an analysis at all) could contribute just a fraction of what the editors do.
From what I saw on the film of McClain, he uses his vision primarily. He regularly waits at the line of scrimmage for the play to develop in front of him. He's an opportunistic tackler and uses quickness to shed blocks regularly against slower and larger bodies. Has a harder time shedding nimble blockers (TEs, FBs, etc.). Puts himself in position to make plays. Strong upper body for blocking and tackling. Grasps schemes and knows where defense is on the field. Good coverage skills. Not often a blitzing LB. Strong presence against the run. Above average tackling ability. Tends to use his physicality to block and tackle in gaps.
Sean Weatherspoon relies on speed and agility. He's an attacker and is often used in blitzing schemes. He can make plays across the field. Aggresiveness can lead to overpursuing. Strong coverage skills. Above average tackling skills. Uses quickness to shed blocks. Can find seams to make plays from behind and stop gaps in line of scrimmage. Can defend all areas of the field. Regularly sacrifices the body in tackling. Can be an enforcer.
Honestly, after watching the films and developing these assessments (albeit uneducated layman assessments) I think that having both of these guys would be awesome. Taking McClain in the first and Weatherspoon in the second would be very surprising but it might instantly upgrade the unit and turn weakness into strength. I don't know if either would be available by the time the Giants draft in the first and second rounds but it certainly would make an interesting draft.
We already knew that McClain was the more natural Mike (ILB), while Weatherspoon looks more comfortable as a Will (WLB). With Goff, Sintim, and Kehl being the other young possibilities to start, we could really see some growth and development in our LB corps this summer. We know we need it. Why not?
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Just to add...
Fewell is moving to a Tampa 2 and needs his LB unit to cover a lot of ground. That would probably give the edge to Weatherspoon.
In Reese We Trust
first he is not moving to a full tampa 2 some plays will be tampa 2 but we r not running a real tampa 2
second the only way both mclain and spoon would work is to have spoon play SAM because boley is set at WIL
but heck that would be a beastly LB group
SPoon mclain boley
by shenkthetank592 on Apr 13, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
our new defense
I think it is premature to say what our new defense is going to be or who will fit it. People overestimate the need for speed in a Cover 2 – many teams have used it or similar defenses to make up for a lack of speed to cover man-to-man. I would rate intelligence as the most important factor in a zone scheme.
With a new coach, anything can happen on defense. A lot of starting positions could be up for grabs. Boley has not done enough to be handed the job. He started off well last year but I was disappointed in him at the end. No big plays.
hold on a sec. boley needs to get some love ..
guy had 84 tackles in 11 games…and i saw flashes.. you are correct about not seeing much at the end ,but what did the guy have to work ? no AP ,clark! and a bunch of other guys that mailed it in..i think boley earned his keep
starters
I see three starters on D with safe jobs: Rolle (by default), Webster, and Tuck. Everyone else has to play/practice for it.
Terrell Thomas' job is safer than Webster IMO
…Of course Webster is a starter and I’m not dumping on him just because of 1 down year but he was defenitely abused on several occasions and T2 had a great season, not many lapses in coverage.
Just gimme some playmakers
by I_Formation27 on Apr 14, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Well Terrell Thomas was always matched up against #2's
Webster was going against higher quality WR’s
by mclaren_is_the_best on Apr 14, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't say "always"
I remember several occasions when #1 WR’s lined up in the slot to take advantage of match-ups, and T2 shut them down. He didn’t cover #1 WR’s nearly as much as Webb did, buthe did do it, and did it well. I think he has the ability to be a shut down corner IMO.
Just gimme some playmakers
by I_Formation27 on Apr 15, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
it's moot....
AR will never challenge Cweb.
AR should be looking over his shoulder for the Johnson boys before they take his #3 spot….that is if he’s not looking down at the ground while he’s sulking around and kicking rocks….
but let’s not forget the work that Cweb put in….he’ll bounce back….dealing w/ these knuckleheads @ Safety and Sheridan…and the knee….dont’ worry….Cweb will bounce back.
the one thing i can say about Cweb that i can never say about Ross….he’s resilient and a fighter, you can’t keep him down.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
I love
C web, and especially since he made the pick against Brett Farve in OT in the NFC Championship in 2007
thank gawd for spags...
if it wasnt’ for him Cweb would probably have been a zone corner his whole career and would still be riding the pine….
if this guy Fewell doesn’t put our Corners in Man coverage I’m going to be pretty disappointed.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
+1
Webster is going to give up some catches to the like of B. Marshall and V. Jackson. Every CB does. He had no safety help last year. Also, as the year went on we played more and more zone. I HATE zone. Unfortunately Fewell has been mostly a zone guy. Hopefully he is not too proud to change it if it does not work.
Yeah
Webster had good coverage on Marshall all night but when the QB isn’t getting any pressure in his face and the WR is 4 inches taller than the CB there isn’t much you can do.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Apr 15, 2010 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Nothing Webster could do on some of those catches
Just plain old outjumped Webster
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Sintim?
as nice as spoon mcclain boley sounds.. i really really want to see sintim step it up this year and beast people.
Dear God: Please fix Carlos Beltran. Thank you.
by Plaxico Burress on Apr 14, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that both can be starting MLB's in the NFL
McClain is a natural MLB and definitely the better player but Weatherspoon has a nice foundation and he can too grow to be a starter as well
by mclaren_is_the_best on Apr 14, 2010 1:04 AM EDT reply actions
I'd view the chances of McClain being available at #15 pick...
at about 30% or so, and the odds of Spoon being available at #46 at less than 5%, and the odds of Reese trading around to take the two of them in the first two rounds at less than 1%. I think there’s way too much polarization regarding McClain vs. Weatherspoon, as the fact is both are good players and if we get either one of them, we’re going to learn to love having them in blue if they play well, and hate them if don’t. It’s fine to have a favorite, but neither of these guys is chopped liver, and I’m guessing that if the Giants didn’t have a glaring need at MLB we’d be viewing McClain as a consensus top 15 draft choice and Weatherspoon as a concensus pick for the second half of the first round. Both have the potential to be major upgrades from what we saw at the position last year, and both could fail to make the transition in whole or in part to the next level. But I can’t see a likelihood of both being available to the Giants in the first two rounds, nor the need for Reese to ignore all other positions to focus on linebackers with the first two picks.
i agree
If MLB wasn’t a position of need weatherspoon wouldnt even be in the conversation at 15 based on value alone. I dont see us moving from that spot. Jerry will take the best player that lands on our lap IMO, i dont see us taking a linebacker in round 1 with McClain off the board
Interesting Debate
i like weatherspoon’s high motor and he’s a speedy aggresive gap penetrator. McClain spends hours watching film and is a true ILB with smooth laterall movement especially for his gigantic size which is usefull at the MIKE vs the run. ……Morgan,Spiller,McClain
Theres the reason i like McClain over Spoon
“McClain spends hours watching film and is a true ILB”
always nice having a high motor guy running all over the place making hits (spoon), but for a 4-3 MLB, you NEED that quarterback of the D. and when that QB of the D is as big and athletic and downright good as mcclain is you have the perfect combination.
i would absolutely love to have Spoon playin LB wit the gents next year, but as a OLB. Just let him run around and hit.. dont make him think too much. Leave the thinking to McClain, and thats what the Giants need… AP type brain, with Ro’s ability.
Dear God: Please fix Carlos Beltran. Thank you.
by Plaxico Burress on Apr 14, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Putting teeth on it? You're more likely just fanning the existing flames.
It’s just not a realistic argument to consider taking a player who does not suit the position and is not rated even in the same tier at the #15 spot. McClain is in the consensus top 10-12 players, Weatherspoon is, by most sources, in the low to mid 20’s. We can argue this ad nauseum witrh little conclusion, but the facts are certain. We are going into this season with Sintim as our starting Sam and Boley as our starting Will linebackers. McClain has a realistic chance of starting in 2010. Spoon, having to learn a completely different position and never running a complex defense, doesn’t.
I’m of the school of thought that if you draft in the top half of the first round, and it’s not a franchise QB, the player better be able to start by the end of the first quarter of the season, if not sooner.
Conjecture and “if’s” shouldn’t enter into the conversation at this point. You don’t start with project players until later in the draft..
Bleeding Blue since 1962
LOL...
yeah, kinda fanning flames. There’s no doubt that McClain is our guy. I just found Weatherspoon as an interesting playmaker who could, as you said, develop into one heck of a mike. He would definitely not look like AP playing mike the past couple of seasons.
Just to clarify, I would not pick ‘spoon at #15 if McClain was gone. I would probably find best available first round, and if Weatherspoon is available or dropped a couple slots in the second for us to pick up using a fifth rd. pick or so to get him, I’d be all for that.
In Reese We Trust
If we don't take Spoon
He goes at 19 to Atlanta I’d wager.
yeah if that .01% hits and they got both
they’d be a Terrence Cody away from playing a 3-4!
(duck and cover)
You play to win the game!
if we can get rolando in 1 and spoon in 2
terrence cody will def be there in the 3rd.
Dear God: Please fix Carlos Beltran. Thank you.
by Plaxico Burress on Apr 14, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I haven't had a lot to say about the draft.
I don’t watch college games. I don’t know college players. I have been reading everything posted about the draft on BBV and will stick an oar in the water (given my ignorance, very tentatively.)
Who JR will select in round 1 is a pure guess , as we all know. I don’t think it will be McClain, because he won’t be available and JR probably won’t trade up to get him. To me, that means defensive BPA will probably be Morgan. He wouldn’t be a bad choice, but choosing him would probably mean that Osi or Kiwi would be traded. Anyway, that scenario matches what some BBVers have predicted.
I'll predict that all 4 DE's stay on as well.
With Kiwi being able to stand up and play SAM, somewhat..so he could backup at SAM if need be.
I don’t think anyone’s going anywhere..at least for now.
Running AMOK
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 14, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
for now, meaning this season.
Running AMOK
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 14, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
From my POV, that's the
best case scenario, at least with Kiwi and Osi (unless Osi heightens his early Shockey MO)
the problem is that Osi/Kiwi's value drops significantly if we draft a DE in the first
Because everyone knows that we will need to trade them so nobody will give us good value for a trade
by mclaren_is_the_best on Apr 14, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm all for...
a Morgan as our pick. I wouldn’t say McClain is definitely not available, however. I think he might. We don’t know what Reese is thinking but we definitely don’t know what Kansas City or Denver are thinking, either. We’ll just have to wait, see, and hope for the best.
In Reese We Trust
No comparison to Late Shockey,
but a certain vibe of Early Shockey, enough to make many BBVers uneasy. The hope is Fewell wil get him back on board the team bus. That’s why I’d like to see O and K stay around another year if we do get Morgan. Yes, Tollefson would be gone, but we could get a late rounder for him, I believe. He’s a competent journeyman who gives his all.
And Kiwi or Osi are as good as gone if we take Morgan.
If not,who knows how the loser of the battle for starting RE will behave.
Kiwi backs up Osi for RE
Morgan backs up Tuck for LE.
Elite depth..and sorry to the Dave Tollefson bandwagoners.
Both stay, QB’s on the menu again…all game and all year long. So now if Tuck’s tired..we got new Tuck to take over for a minute.
Running AMOK
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 14, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Birds fan here, and I really hope
we get Wheatherspoon, he’s got that Dawkins bad ass quality we missed last year
"I don't have to worry about the Washington Redskins, I have to worry about the Philadelphia Eagles."- Andy Reid
good thing Weatherspoon's not fat enough to be drafted in the first round by the Eagles.
and he doesn’t play CB either.
Highly doubt Andy goes that route…whether its smart or not.
Running AMOK
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 15, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't see Kiwi taking being a backup too well esp. in a contract year.
If we get Morgan why not trade him?And yeah ‘Spoon does have that bad ass quality,so hopefully Philly doesn’t get him.
I really don’t like being forced to move one of our DE’s.Do you guys think that forces us to go with Morgan if he’s there,no matter who else is?
We won't get much from Kiwi
if we draft Morgan, because teams will now that we need to offload him ASAP. Nobody will give us a decent deal
by mclaren_is_the_best on Apr 15, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't buy that....
Other teams are more interested in improving their team, rather than tucking it to the Giants with a lowball offer. If you want a player being traded, and there’s more than one potential market for him, someone will pay fair value as they WANT him more than to play games.
Harder to find a top flight 4-3 DE than MLB,S,RB,OL,DT
or rather more important to us to be top flight at that spot going forward.

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