New York Giants News & Notes: Reaction to the Rolle Signing
by cjmulrain on Mar 6, 2010 12:00 PM EST
in New York Giants News
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PrintBy now you all know that the Giants have inked former Cardinals (and Miami U) safety Antrel Rolle to a 5-year, $37 million dollar contract, with $15 million guaranteed. ESPN's Matt Mosley is a fan of the signing: "If Kenny Phillips is fully recovered from microfracture surgery on his knee, he and Rolle should form one of the best safety duos in the league. They both played at the University of Miami and both possess excellent range. In fact, Rolle entered the league as a cornerback."
Walter Football, on the other hand, thinks the Giants made a bad move with the Rolle signing: "Really? The Giants gave $15 million guaranteed to Antrel Rolle? The same Antrel Rolle who blows coverages and whiffs on tackles? Jerry Reese is a great general manager, but this move leaves me scratching my head. Was safety such a big need that Reese felt like he needed to overspend by about $7 million in guaranteed money?"
My response: umm...yes, Walter, safety WAS that big of a need. If Walter Football doesn't recognize that, then I've lost quite a bit of respect for their knowledge of the game. In an uncapped year I'm not too concerned about the fact that they overpaid a bit. The Giants needed a safety, and Rolle, while not Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu, is one of the better safeties in the league and gives the Giants much more flexibility in the draft and the rest of free agency. I think it was a great signing. Of course, I also thought the Boley and Canty signings were great, so what do I know?
- To make room for Rolle, the Giants cut Aaron Rouse. Some people might wonder why the Giants would cut Rouse after tendering C.C. Brown, but my assumption is that the Giants think Brown is a better run stopping safety, and having Rolle & a hopefully healthy Phillips makes Rouse expendable.
- Mike Garafolo reports that the Giants could be taking it slow with middle linebackers, and mentions the Raiders Kirk Morrison as a potential top target.
- Aaron Ross married track star Sanya Richards at the end of February, and the NY Times has a nice article about their courtship.
- There are four big NFL stories not involving the Giants: the Chicago Bears signing of DE Julius Peppers; the Miami Dolphins signing of LB Karlos Dansby; the Baltimore Ravens trading for WR Anquan Boldin; and Pittsburgh QB Ben Roethlisberger has been accused of sexual assault for the second time in two years. I was never on the Dansby bandwagon, and I actually will be very happy if his signing with the Dolphins leads to Rolando McClain falling to the Giants in the draft. I'm also very happy about the Anquan Boldin trade, because my man Joe Flacco finally has a legitimate weapon in the passing game. I've been predicting big things for Flacco since he was playing football at my alma mater, and I think he's gonna have a breakout year next year throwing to Boldin.
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With this weak class of FA safeties and LB's
then there is no such thing as “overpaying”, only paying what is necessary to get the best value. It was the same stupid argument with Eli’s new contract. You have to pay what is necessary to get the best pieces, especially when there are not any better options available.
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Mar 6, 2010 12:04 PM EST reply actions
Safety was not a need?
Obviously they didn’t see those eagles games, and the saints game, and some of the vikings game. I guess the next thing they’ll say is the Redskins aren’t in need of an offense.
Walter doesn't understand
that it was not just about replacing CC Brown et al. It was also about Kenny Phillips – making sure we have a solid cover safety if Phillips is less than 100%
Mickey C
Exactly
Who’s to say that the Redskins wouldn’t overpay for any OL? Every year, with every position, there are going to be overvalued players that are preceived as valuable within a teams need! Simple economics, a low supply, perhaps a higher demand amongst several teams leads to a potential reach in terms of the amount accepted.
But the Ravens also signed that bum Stallworth
They should have signed someone like Kevin Walter instead.
----Warner----
-------13-------
by Scent of a Woman on Mar 6, 2010 12:16 PM EST reply actions
He gone...
Watler signed with the Texans, must admit, don’t know him.
Walter is kinda like an Amani Toomer
Not always spectacular, but someone you can always depend on.
He resigned yesterday
But Baltimore should have extended an offer to Walter, instead of signing that punk Stallworth.
----Warner----
-------13-------
by Scent of a Woman on Mar 6, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
I'm still a bit confused on cutting Rouse
and kept Brown, I thought Rouse was showing a bit of upside at points. I just hope we never have to fall back on ANY safety not from Miami again
Agree why couldnt we take
them to camp and let them compete under Fewells new defensive scheme
whatever that may be
how much cash could this move saved??
You can see a lot just by observing-Yogi Berra
Roster space I believe
Cj mentioned it above, however I thought the roster was allowed to expand after the season.
Also
Bad Bad CC Brown is a bad safety in coverage, but good at creeping up in the box and being a run stuffer
-Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Confused too
I didn’t realize there was a limit once FA started and with the current roster? Unless it only pertains inbetween FA and the draft, then you can max out to 80 once OTA’s and camps break?
now mlb
I like getting rolle and letting Miami get dansby. That probably means that Miami doesn’t draft a mlb and it gives us a better chance to end up drafting McClain at lb and he looks like a stud. We can hen use the rest of the draft on ol dl and depth. And maybe we could move Goff to olb
by robbparker on Mar 6, 2010 12:37 PM EST via mobile reply actions
But NowArizona needs a MLB
They could trade ahead of us, so could a coupl eof other teams… I want McClain, we do have a btter chance, but its still a little complicated.
it would take arizona's first, second and 6th pick to move to 14
i think they have way too many needs to make that move
Yeah
Each pick has its own value. I’m no tsure what the exact term is for it though. B-rod, where do you get the info?
True
I don’t think Reese will give away a pick just to move up maybe 2 spots. I don’t blame him
yeah but i wouldnt mind bringing in morrison or witherspoon..
than moving down in the 1st to get an extra 2nd rounder
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
AZ has got the "rule of eight" to deal with
So they can only sign free agents as they lose them(1 for 1) and only at up to 110% of the salary of the FA they lose.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Thoughts...
I agree that we will still need to trade up if we want McClain as our new MLB. Happy with Rolle over Dansby, could care less if the Maras and Tischs have to spend an extra mil or two a year.
I think we can now go BPA in the first, realizing that if it isn’t a MLB, we’ll probably have to grab one in the 2nd, unless, of course, they trade up for Rolando.
Also surprised about the CC over Rouse thing. I saw him as a 4th rd. pick, 2nd year player, with certainly much more upside than CC. Still very curious what the plan is with Ross too… is he gonna be a CB, a S, some sort of hybrid nickle back that does a bit of both? While not a big hitter, I thought he looked fluid as a S and definitely has enough range to pull it off. He’d be my backup plan if KP is still on the mend.
THE U!!!
Check out this…
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/06/giants-remind-rolle-of-hurricanes/
All's Well that Fewell
I think this signing pretty much signifies that we won't go with Earl Thomas in the draft
In that case I believe that Weatherspoon is the best fit for this team. Even if he isn’t completely ready to start at MLB at the beginning of the year he can learn while Goff is given another chance and they will both compete for the job in training camp. His energy and charisma will give new life to the defense. He played at MLB in the senior bowl as well. And he has excellent range and size for the middle.
McClain on the other hand is too big and even admitted he would fit better in a 3-4.
with Rolle, Phillips and CC Brown/Michael Johnson/Vince Anderson/Sha’reff Rashad I don’t think JR will take another safety because we already have a lot of players for that spot.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 6, 2010 1:44 PM EST reply actions
Yes
But I still like taking best OLineman with 15 and Spikes in the second. Jerry knows best with Tom and Fewell whatever they decide to do I will be happy, As long as it works lol.
All's Well that Fewell
Just a thought
If Reese was serious about preparing like Phillips won’t be ready to go then maybe just maybe we will go after a safety at some point in the draft, specially wiht the Safety depth in this years.
All's Well that Fewell
I was thinking
that if they’re moving forward like Phillips is a no-go, all this move does is put them in position to take a S in the draft at the best situation, be it 1st, 2nd, 3rd… that way they have 2 safeties, Rolle and Draft, with Phillips as a ?
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Mar 8, 2010 7:56 AM EST up reply actions
More likely a depth/development pick
We definitely need depth at S, but don’t count out Sha’reff Rashad. After a year on the taxi squad, he could put in a solid bid for a roster spot. Also, C.C. Brown was brought in to be a veteran, depth SS and really isn’t that bad. If you try to plug him in as a FS you’re gonna be in trouble, as we saw last year, but he’s very effective in the box. I think he was badly misused by Sheridan. He’s also a slendid Special Teams player.
I’m betting we don’t take a safety until at least round 3.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I think it will depend mostly who is on the board
They could take Thomas #1
Best thing about this signing is that it gives JR & Co some flexibility. No longer do the stars have to align and some 2nd rounder fall to round 3 for the team to be in good position.
It also makes JR more comfortable to trade down in the 1st
He has always stated that the best value in Rd 1 comes near the latter 3rd of the round. Let’s not forget how much Reese likes his pieces. I think he’s done pretty well so far using that philosophy. At the price you end up paying for higher picks, I am totally in concert with him.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I dont think the Giants spent
that much more than fiar market value. This was a weak FA safety class and S happened to be one of our biggest needs. Sometimes you have to over spend a little, The Eagles over spent for Asante Samuel. He gets picks, but he gets beat a lot and the next time he makes a tackle will be his first time.
Rolle isnt Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu, but he is a good young coverage safety that is leaps and bouns better than Rouse, Brown, and Johnson.
Well
Let’s hope the change of teams will energize him and it works out for us… Is Rolle any better then CC Brown, Rouse, Johnson or an unproven rookie(no one knows what a rook will do)?
All's Well that Fewell
Syler
I know your annoyed with Rolle and the money part, but it does come down to the point of mutal interest between players and teams. Sharper i believe wants to go back to NO for another shot at a SB, and coming off his productive season, we probably would be buying high anyways, plus how pryable would he be?
Atogwe? IDK, but perhaps this comes down to a recommendation from what Fewell may see? He is a secondary guy, so this may count for something? Atogwe vs. Rolle? As fans, we need to take trust in these transactions.
Sharper is looking for a SBXLIV and wants to remain a Saint who want him to stay
Lets just say we made an offer to Atogwe. The Rams have a week to match the offer and, if they do, that time would have seen both Rolle and Sharper off the market. Then we are standing there with our pants down
Bleeding Blue since 1962
CC Brown
Is AWFUL! If you took a poll of Giant fans and asked them which safety they would keep, I don’t think CC Brown would get 1 vote. What were they looking at? What did we miss as fans? If they put CC Brown on waivers, I do not think one single team would pick him up.
CC
Don’t be suprised if we draft a safety late CC is cut after camp.At this point I think he is just a body filling a roster spot at postion with no depth and he atleast as game experience.
All's Well that Fewell
i disliked him as much as most but he was asked to do more than he signed on for...he's a horrible coverage man but a hard hitter and can contribute on ST and can play the run pretty good,
correct me if i’m wrong but i don’t remember to many times complaining that he missed tackles, if he was in the area of the player with the ball he usually wrapped him up, its just a lot of times the receiver was already 10yards down field
by LT's Will Power on Mar 6, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
You know how there are some players ...
that people say “having him on the roster, just makes our other guys better”. Team leader, that sort of stuff. CC might be the reverse of that concept. Players will look over at him and start spending all their time worrying about the health of the starting Safeties.
This just in ...
Ross pulled a hammy walking down the aisle, and is out 3-4 months. Should be ready by camp, though.
Are you kidding?
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
That must be one frisky bride he married!!
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
It wouldn't surprise me!
Doctors can look at it cross-eyed and they’ll injure it!
I think Shof was feeling frisky in his comment?! lol
Never marry a woman who can outrun you
What are the Giants going to do with Ross, anyway? A #1 pick as a nickel back?
Mickey C
by Mickey C on Mar 6, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ProFootballFocus rating
Can someone explain why Rolle was ranked so low on ProFootballFocus last year. he’s the # 67 Safety (kinda low considering he’s now the highest paid safety). How much of an indicator is that of his actual value on the field.
a lot of their rankings don’t make sense at all
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 6, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Nice write CJ..I think we got a very talented safety in Rolle
And under Fewell…this all-pro will only get better..Geez if KP comes back healthy what an exciting turnaround in our secondary..they played together and know each others strengths..and will know how to communicate with each other because of that fact..
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Good point about considering Fewell in all of this ...
I’m already not stressing about the S position like I was a month ago, as we have Rolle and this position is Fewell’s wheel house. If he’s O.K.‘d Rolle, and sees more in CC than in Rouse, and even if we go S at #15, I’m fine with it all.
MLB is now keeping me up at night …
Plus
He will take the rest of the team better
by freakynjbifemandhubby on Mar 6, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Walter football hates all the FA signings it seems
except the Dansby and Chester Taylor ones. Oh well..I like that site usually but they can piss off for this one.`
Rolle wants to be here. From his interview, he says the Cardinals would’ve matched this offer…but he chose the Giants. That’s good enough for me (as is the fact the Giants made him a priority).
Whether anyone likes him or not…the Giants do, and that’s all that matters.
Maybe now that Ross married Richards now…she can give him her hamstring in exchange for the ring?
Garafolo usually has a clue, so him mentioning Morrison is a good sign he may be a target too
Master of the squeegee
Rolle money well spent
Rolle is a good cover guy and if he can slow down the QB getting the ball out a split sec. longer ..giving Tuck, Kiwi, and Osi a better shot at a sack …if all those QB knock downs turn into 4 maybe 5 more sacks…money well spent…
Plus I can see Rolle and CC on the field on run blitz and other 8 in the box short yardage run downs
by freakynjbifemandhubby on Mar 6, 2010 4:24 PM EST reply actions
Interesting.
Its a 2nd round tender I think. I’d match that…Cofield is better for 2010 then any DT the Giants would get I’d think in the draft.
Master of the squeegee
It would have to be one helluva offer with a poison pill for JR to let Barry go.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
its "only" a 2nd rounder...
so yea, I doubt that JR doesn’t match it.
Tho we gotta remember….if a team offers a crazy contract then maybe he just takes the pick.
I remember some crazy stuff with the Vikings and Seahawls a while back..like All of Steve Hutchinson’s $49 million contract would be guaranteed if he played a certain number of games in the state of Washington…which would stink if your Seattle.
Dunno if they banned that sort of BS. But if the Raiders offer Cofield a ridiculous contract…just in money terms, then well…I’d just take the pick.
Master of the squeegee
Yeah, you can't just match any offer ...
and that’s probably why they haven’t cut Bernard (plus the fact that he had a torn labrum part of last season might mean he’s not a total POS).
I guess with Canty, Bernard and Alford we wouldn’t be too desperate, especially if we get that 2nd rounder this draft. Bottom line, I suspect no one even signs Cofield and it’s moot.
It's not like he's a marquis player or anything. He has tremendous value
to US, especially in 2010, but probably not as much to another team. He was our best defensive tackle last year.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
they have Mike Waufle down there in oakland
so he knows all about Cofield
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 7, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
It doesn't matter what the tender is with regards to a contract offer
Ok, the second round pick price tag is one thing, but a prospective bidder for Cofield can offer whatever they want contract wise and then the Giants would have to match it of lose his services for the pick, which we both agree probalby won’t be as good for NY as a healthy, knowledgeable Barry. They could also include a poison pill, like a $15M bonus if Cofield plays more than 5 games in NY/NJ in 2010. That’s definitely not likely if, say, a team like the Broncos were the bidding team.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Also, if Oakland signs him ...
and we get their 2nd pick in this year’s draft (is that how it works ?), they pick #8, so it would be a pretty good pick.
It looks to me like there were way more 2nd round and 1st round tender offers this year. My guess is that a lot of teams tendered at the pick they’d let a guy go for. Might be the case here.
Something I just realized is that we're getting exactly what I've wanted and have been chiming about
A defensive backfield with 2 quality FS’s. The deep D is gonna be no-mans land.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Rolle was asked if he’d like an opportunity to throw passes out of the wildcat with the Giants.
“Absolutely,” he said. “I think that’s going to come from showing them exactly what I can do. Once I’m here with this organization, they will get a pretty good feel of what kind of athlete I am. I can throw the ball a million miles, I think everyone knows that at this point. Whether they are going to use me for that, I don’t know yet. I hope so because I think it brings another dimension to football. It creates a mismatch. It’s also something that can excite the fans and it can be a momentum changer.”
hehehhee
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
and I think those that want a “big hitter” need only to look at his hit on Kevin Boss. Not exactly a clean hit (..it wasn’t) but he likes to hit.
…and I know for a fact that Kenny Phillips likes to hit anything that walks.
So we have toughness and coverage ability. And we have a defensive coordinator who can coach up basically anyone.
I feel that Rolle’s stats prior to this year are largely irrelevant. Kind of like Chris Canty, I think he’s got a ton of potential left in there and would be utilized under our scheme..whatever it is (Fewell’s said its gonna be aggressive..so that’s good).
Hopefully he stays healthy, unlike Canty in his first year.
Master of the squeegee
Its that U attitude
If your from the U, most likely you live to hit.
I'm by the campus at least once a month and there's plenty there I'd like to hit
Oh, we’re still talking about football. Nevermind.
Really some of the hottest ladies you have ever seen. Alot of smokin’ Latinas.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I don't like girls who smoke
bad breath
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Mar 8, 2010 8:01 AM EST up reply actions
Adam Schefter on twitter about Kirk Morrison
The Raiders really want someone to sign Morrison; they could’ve tendered him for almost the same price ($2.5 million) at the round-two level. Oakland has never been satisfied with Morrison’s play in the middle, despite the fact that he’s annually among the NFL’s tackle leaders. Al Davis apparently blames him for the team’s longtime inability to stop the run. Morrison figures to garner some interest as a 28-year-old former third-round pick.Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter
by thebossandbenji76 on Mar 6, 2010 6:22 PM EST reply actions
Good, then release him, Al.
You put a Mike behind a swiss cheese interior and blame him for the results? Go ahead, make our day.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
that swiss cheese interior
is why Morrison has good tackle stats (though most are after a good gain)
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 7, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Morrison is a journeyman
Not a star or an emerging star
That said, the team has to have competition for Goff, you can’t go to camp with Goff and Blackburn as your top2 MLBs, that is a recipe for disaster
And let's hope Al Davis is as sharp on Middle Linebackers...
As he is on first round draft picks. I’d still like us to pick up Morrison. And if it makes Weird Al happy, give him Moss and a fourth and call it square.
so al davis is about the equivalent of glen sather?
id be a lot more happy about next season if we bring in morrison or witherspoon
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Moss is probably still fast.
We got Moss down for an original pick tender (2nd round) so maybe we can get Morrison + another pick?? for Moss
Master of the squeegee
Actually Moss would garner a 3rd.
Something to do with having other players at a 2 causing him to get a 3 for comp. Possibly the Cofield tender.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
That brings up an interesting question ...
When we “tender” the RFA’s, can we trade them before they sign the tender offer ? And when do they have to sign it by or essentially be retiring ?
Said another way, I’m not sure the crypt keeper can trade Morrison or that we can trade Moss at the moment. We each could sign the other’s guy, but not sure they are “trade-able”.
No. If they haven't signed the tender, technically we don't own their rights.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
And Moss is particularly FAST outside of the season....
Send Al some August highlight film
Morrison
The more I look into this guys stats, the more I like him. Maybe we trade a player and a 5th rounder for him. Even if we have to give up a 3rd I think he is worth it. If we do this then we could trade down in the 1st to pick up an extra 2nd . Then we go OT 1st, DT 2nd, LB 2nd.
What do you think Free
If we don’t get Morrison, what about Foote from Detroit (we would not have to give a pick)
So, I guess this ends all the Earl Thomas chatter?
We’re not going Rd. 1 for a Safety after this signing.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Hmmmmm...and we got Rolle with out giving up a single pick. Now what was the question again?
Bleeding Blue since 1962
There are quite a few analysts that would dissagree with that.
Lets just say he IS better. Is he 2 players better? If our front office shared your view of value we’d be the Redskins. Allstars who never make the playoffs.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
the Redskins overpay for a system player who doesn’t fit (AHEM!! ADAM ARCHULETA!)
Rolle is a CB playing safety. For a Perry Fewell…that’s a good fit.
F what Rolle did elsewhere. He’s a former #8 overall pick as a CB who doesn’t suck as a safety.
Dansby would be a Redskin move by your metric…..
Master of the squeegee
Let's not forget, different players work better in certain systems
I believe that, by now, Perry Fewell has a pretty good idea what type of athlete will work well in his system. Apparently, it’s an aggressive, cover guy that can lay the wood. Wait a second, that sounds alot like the other guy we have a Safety.
Some of us are pretty happy with the signing. Everyone else can get over it. You’ll have to, eventually.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I am over it
Rolle is a Giant, he’ll be a large upgrade over what we had last year, but we could have gotten someone better and cheaper, that’s all I will say.
Who?
If you mean draft picks over cash, that’s kind of ludicrous. It’s not your money or mine, and I’d rather have the two picks. If you mean Sharper, he doesn’t want to leave NO. I’m not that convinced the guy from the Rams is much better either. Who’s left?
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Mar 7, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Actually Atogwe has been a better player on paper
but, at the risk of not getting a player at all while waiting on the Rams to counter our offer, it was the best move on the board for the Giants. I have to say I’m a little astonished at those who don’t get it, so let me repeat it loud and clear:
THIS WAS OUR BEST AND ONLY REALISTIC OPTION AND HE GOT PAID WHAT WILL END UP BEING THE FLOOR OF SAFETY CONTRACTS TO COME, SO GIVE UP ON THE “OVERPAID” NONSENSE. HE GOT PAID MARKET VALUE, JUST LIKE ELI. IF YOU WANT SOMETHING, SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.
Sorry for yelling. I’d just like to put the nonsense to bed.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Oh ok...
NO, IT WAS NOT OUR ONLY REALISTIC OPTION.
RYAN CLARK, OSHIMIGO ATOGWE, AND DARREN SHARPER WERE ALL OUT THERE. THEY WOULD ALL BE CHEAPER THAN ROLLE, AND THEY’RE ALL OUT THERE. EVERYONE WHO HAS EVEN A SENSE OF SANITY KNOWS ROLLE GOT OVERPAID. THAT’S IT.
Its only overpaid if he doesn't perform
If he plays well and solves their biggest problem he’ll be worth every penny
Clark- would’ve been equally overpaid. Dunno why he’s considered “cheap”
Otogwe – we would’ve gone insane waiting 7 days for the Otogwe deal to go through. They needed to shore it up and be sure about it
Sharper- Agree, he would’ve been better. But maybe they want long term solution and not a stopgap?
With Sharper, they’d still probably have to find a long term solution early in the draft (The Saints have Bullocks and drafted Jenkins in round one in 2009).
If it saves us making an early pick…its a good move.
Also, I doubt JR goes out there and doesn’t get the best player in his and scouts who actually do this for a living, minds.
Master of the squeegee
Ok, a CB who's fastly developing as a FS has a Pro Bowl year
and you want to gamble on getting some other big name who isn’t a clear cut deal, regardless of the perspective talent level. Atogwe is a gamble, Sharper is a gamble, Rolle was a slam dunk. My kind of odds. I’ll take a #10 on a sure thing over a #8 on a maybe anyday.
To add to the bounty, Fewell, Merritt and Coughlin signed off on the deal. That’s enough for me. It should be for any Giant fan who has faith in the organization.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I have faith in the organization
But Rolle is average to below average, and he didn’t deserve anywhere near what he got. That’s it. There’s no arguing it.
I guess if you say so. NOT!
Get real. This was the only realistic move available to us and his contract will end up being the floor for future contracts with safeties.
If you’re gonna say that we should have offered a contract to Atogwe so that we can wait a week for the Rams to match it while Rolle goes somewhere else, or we should have gone after Sharper, who wants to stay in NO and will be getting way overpaid for a 34 year old that worked in a system designed around him or give a 4th and 7th for a poor attitude wielding Rhodes and a 5th, then their really IS no argument.
That would illustrate cluelessness on your part. A price is determined by many things, including supply, demand and what the market will bear. We needed a safety. Rolle was available, NOW. We paid what the Cards were willing to pay to keep him. He solves one of our biggest needs(but apparently not your fantasy picks) and paid the price. Deal done.
Get over it and move on.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Rolle is a bargain compared to
the average partners salary at Goldman Sachs
or
The CEO of Chrysler
(You can create a metric that makes anyone look over or under paid)
Personally I think that Rolle is a bargain compared to the $10M the Jets gave Rhodes last year (he isn’t even a cover safety) or Gibril Wilsons 8M for Fish.
love the signing now O-line or Lb help
Both o line and linebacker needs to be addressed next. Linebacker for obvious reasons such as age, lack of talent, speed and the lack of ability to cover. O line cause our guys are getting a bit old. I believe it was a big reason our run game was less than spectacular last season. Granted both guys had injuries but the oline constantly looked like it was being pushed around on run plays and short pass plas.
"The Mets are my favorite squadron." Apu
Giant D is alive
In all my 50 years of following the NY Giants, the present management is the best.
They talk the talk and walk the walk. Now it’s up to the coaching staff to orchestrate the players to be a championship team.
I thought some of you might really enjoy this
Combine numbers
Antrel Rolle Kenny Philips
Height 6’0" 6’2"
Weight 198 212
40 yd dash 4.48 4.48
Vertical 37" 34"
3 cone 6.68 6.97
20 yd shuttle 4.01 4.27
Now, remember these are numbers from the combine, so don’t get all over me for this. I just thought this was interesting.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Hmmm..they almost are clones...interesting
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
interesting stuff.
Rolle’s better 3 cone and 20yd numbers seem to be why he was a corner, while KP is a safety.
Also, Rolle’s 10lbs heavier right now (as a safety).
2 athlete like that playing safety? YAY!
Master of the squeegee
the problem with walter
Is they’ll get down on a guy and nothing they do will change their opinion. same goes if they love a guy.
They’ll have certain guys pegged early (like Carlos Dunlap) but completely misdiagnose other guys (Patrick Robinson).
in all honest its wishful thinking to think that kenny phillips is going to be as good as he was prior to this injury. microfracture surgery is no joke and the odds are against him that he can even get back to 80 percent of what he was regardless of how he says he feels
According to whom?
Maybe not by the start of the year, but if he is ahead of schedule why can he not be playing at a high level as the season progresses?
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Mar 7, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
go do some research on microfracture surgery. It ends careers
by EDDIE MURPHY on Mar 7, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
If your old, maybe.
Amare Stoudamire has been fine. Even Grant Hill has survived it. NBA players put waaay more strain on their knees too.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 7, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Stoudamire has definitely been affected by the surgery
But it also proves that you can come back and play very well
Absolutely true, but post surgery
He had lost some of the explosiveness in his first step
He used to simply blow past guys
Actually, maybe some further research is needed on your part as well
Most microfracture surgeries are to repair damage that is much, much more advanced than KP’s. At Phillips level, there is a higher than 95% success rate and it’s fairly easy to predetermine the outcome in the first few months from imaging results.
In Kenny’s case, the cartilage was not to the point where there was a gaping hole allowing bone to bone contact as has been seen with some athletes. Most sufferers of this degenerative condition feel friction and pain in joint movement before there is any reason to think it is anything more than just being sore from physical activity such as, in this case, recovering from the brutal sport of Football.
Luckily for Phillips, and Giants fans, he was not feeling pain or restriction, friction or tightness. He was just swelling up after games. His fortune is that his body signaled the problem before advance damage was done.
With the older approach towards this condition there was a 30% failure rate witrh advanced sufferers. With the new surgery, advanced damge has seen a 90% success rate. At Philips level, the numbers increase to 97%.. Chondromalacia pattella afflicts nearly 10% of the population, so it is one of the most common procedures performed by knee surgeons and has a large database to draw from and new procedures have come fast and furious.
In summary, I wouldn’t worry about KP, he’ll be fine. The front office being cautious is just smart business.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I hope you are right
Even if he can only play 5 good years before it goes hinky again, those could be 5 excellent years
Problem with Phillips
is that it isn’t just micro-fracture surgery. It is an arthritic knee condition. Arthritis does not improve, no matter what. The Giants might be able to manage it and get him on the field. He may even play well. I think there is little doubt, though, that his career will be affected, and likely shortened.
Ed, simply not true
Arthritis, when diagnosed early can be managed to the point of little to no advancement of the condition. Now that’s asking alot when you take into account that the patient in question is a professional athlete that plays one of the most brutal contact sports, but it’s absolutely doable.
I’m no doctor, but one of my best friends is and is on the med staff of a certain sports organization, so my info is coming from a very knowledgeable source. As you could expect, I was hounding him with questions when KP went down for the season. He, at the time, told me to relax and wait to see what happens with the surgery. The procedures for this condition have radically changed over the last few years and the procedure that Phillips had is 2 generations newer than the one performed on Stoudamire and his condition was way more advanced than KP’s.
Phillips should have a pretty good career, even if he only gets 8-10 more years to play. So, as I was told, relax and wait and see. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Wait and see
Is exactly what I think we all need to do. The guy is not even running yet. So, nobody knows. It’s still arthritis, and it doesn’t get better.
by Ed Valentine on Mar 8, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed. I think it's very promising that he wasn't experiencing pain, just swelling, though.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
He wasn't scheduled to run for 5 months after the surgery
so he is right on track with what the doctors told him when they did the surgery.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 8, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Kerry Rhodes isn't a Rex guy so bye bye he went.
Sometimes you have to get rid of good players because they don’t fit your sheme or don’t have the right attitude. I think it was attitude in this case.
Releasing Thomas Jones is the real head scratcher.
Yes its a bad idea to sign
The best player available at a position that you currently have zero starters (and the $$ are meaningless, slotting bonus for next year will likely mean they won’t count against future cap)
And it was his first year at safety, he should get better for us.
AND he played wildcat QB because they wanted to take greater advantage of his diverse play making skill set
SOUNDS like the worst idea I have ever heard
(Perhaps Walter Football is an AZ fan just squirting sour grapes?)
You can think that Rolle is bad
But to say that its a bad idea for a team to bring in the best available player to fill a position that absolutely sabotaged their prior season
That merits a bit of sarcasm
Saying it was a bad idea is akin to “I don’t know what they were thinking” which is a far worse charge than I don’t agree with that player evaluation. One implies stupidity the other a difference of opinion.
I would’ve rather went for the Rams S to which we’d have to make an offer, then wait 7 days as our bare bungholes flap in the wind hoping the Rams don’t match it.
Much better option IMO
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 7, 2010 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
wouldn't put much stock in that
I could’ve made the pro bowl in 2009
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 7, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
Walter Football
is usually a good, reliable source for stuff like the draft, but I’ve found that they aren’t so great at analyzing NFL teams themselves or players in the NFL. For example, they called Dansby the second-best ILB in the NFL, after Patrick Willis. But yeah, to actually ask if safety was that much of a need for the Giants….huh?? Had they watched any Giants games after the Oakland game?? Also, DT is not our #1 need, now or before we signed Rolle. Canty will be one of the starters next year, and Cofield is likely the other, and we could do a lot worse for depth than Alford and (maybe) Bernard. I don’t know if drafting a DT at #15 is the prudent way to go, but Walter Football seems to think so for some reason.
"The good teams don't come in and say 'could have'. They get it done. Alright? It's that simple."
I was on the verge of writing him an angry email
asking why he isn’t giving us Thomas in the draft
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 7, 2010 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
Low Down on Rolle
I’m sure most of you guys haven’t gotten a chance to see much of Rolle(except for the game vs NYG this past year which was one of his best), but as a Cardinal fan who watches every down of every game I will try to give you a fair synopsis of what kind of player you will be receiving.
Rolle is an above average tackler, although he is better around the line of scrimmage than he is in the open field. He can be a big hitter, but seemed to be lacking in that department this past year. Will make plays on the balls in front of him and once it is in his hands he has a good chance of taking it back all the way.. Is good on the blitz but rarely got the chance with A.Wilson at SS. Also, was starting to be worked into Wildcat formations with success, and the GMen would be wise to come up with a package or two for him on offense(was a former QB).
Now for the bad. Rolle is not a great decision maker and will take poor angles to the ball. Balls over the top and TE’s down the middle of the field have killed the Cards ever since Rolle moved to FS. What is most frustrating when watching Rolle is that he will have good coverage and just not make a play on the ball. And he will rarely make a play on a ball that he has to go back on. And although he is a playmaker with the ball in his hands, DO NOT put him back in punt formation. Cards tried it twice resulting in a fumble and a muff.
All in all, he is a good player, not a ProBowler regardless of what happened this year, who had his career saved by the move to safety(he was God awful as a CB, which is what he was drafted as) who I think could excell if he moves to SS. But if he is your FS for too long, you will soon enough find yourself screaming at your TV, “TURN YOUR HEAD AND FIND THE BALL FOR CRISSAKE!”
We’ve been screaming that for the past 10 years anyway
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 8, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
It's also possible...
that the Giants feel that with time and different coaching, any negatives can be improved upon and the positives amplified. I’m sure they didn’t get him if they didn’t think he’d be able to handle the job.
Frankly, the guy is still improving as a Safety
You just don’t go to a Cornerback and say “You’re gonna play Safety” and he automatically transitions with no learning curve. He made the Pro Bowl in his 2nd year at the position. Enough of the talk about who deserves to go to the All Star game, the vote come from felllow players, coaches AND the fans.
There’s always going to be some fan of the team we’re pillaging for players who is going to hack the hell out of one they lost to us. I seem to remember a KC fan who was on here when we signed Mitchell who went on and on about how he couldn’t tackle and what not. How’d that work out, anyway?
Bleeding Blue since 1962
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