New York Giants notes: David Carr, other free agency stuff
by Ed Valentine on Mar 4, 2010 7:40 AM EST
in News
85 comments
A little birdie has been telling me for a while that there was a good chance backup quarterback David Carr would not be a New York Giant next season.
Looks like maybe the little birdie had good intel.
Ralph Vacchiano has a look at the rather unattractive list of options to replace Carr if he leaves. My money is on Mark Brunell, who was Tom Coughlin's quarterback in Jacksonville and will have no issue with a pure backup role.
- Ralph Vacchiano of the NY Daily News and Mike Garafolo of the Star-Ledger both have free agency previews this morning. Both are saying the same thing -- do not expect the Giants to throw money around like the Mara family suddenly morphed into the Steinbrenners.
- SI.com's Don Banks has some predictions for where the big-name free agents will end up. If you are on the Karlos Dansby bandwagon you will love what Banks said.
Where he [Dansby] will sign: New York Giants -- With six years of NFL service under his belt, Dansby is one of the few big-name free agents who is perfectly situated for this year's unrestricted class. In New York he would be the centerpiece upgrade of a defense that is now led by new coordinator Perry Fewell, and would walk into the middle linebacker role vacated by Antonio Pierce's departure. Miami has need for an inside linebacker as well, and the lure of playing in a Bill Parcells-style defense could be strong. Expect Washington to be in the bidding, too, especially if the Redskins don't land Peppers.
Where he should sign: New York Giants -- As they move into their new Meadowlands stadium, the G-Men should be poised for a big bounce back on defense next season, with safety Kenny Phillips healthy and Fewell getting more out of that underachieving defensive line. Dansby would be a big part of the improvement and there's nothing like success in the NFL's largest media market to really kick-start the second half of one's career. - According to Vacchiano, the Giants seriously considered releasing a trio of veteran linemen but won't. At least not yet.
Time may be catching up to Kareem McKenzie, Rich Seubert and Rocky Bernard, but the dreaded "Turk" hasn’t caught up with them yet.
It appears that none of those players - - despite their age, expense, or recent injuries - - will be cut by the Giants before the free-agent market opens at 12:01 a.m. on Friday. Though all three appeared perched on the bubble, two sources familiar with the Giants’ plans said it’s "very unlikely" any of them will be released any time soon. - Mention Taylor Mays around these parts, and you are guaranteed to get what I will call a "mixed" reaction. Some love him, some hate him as a prospective safety for our Giants. Your reaction to SB Nation's summary of Mays Scouting Combine performance will depend on which side of the argument you are on. I pass it on because it clearly summarizes the dilemma that is Mays.
At the NFL combine, Mays reminded us once again that he must be some sort of extraterrestrial sent to our planet to make Todd McShay's life complete. Mays was unofficially clocked at 4.24 seconds in first 40-yard dash at the NFL Combine, which, if the time holds, would tie Chris Johnson's record of a few years ago.
Of course, for all of his big hits and eye-popping workout numbers, Mays isn't exactly good at football. Poor angles, bad coverage and dropped interceptions are a staple of his game, as he demonstrated at the Senior Bowl. He's just a faster liability.
Say hello to your next Oakland Raider.
UPDATE: His official 40 time came in at 4.43. His alien status remains intact, however.
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If you are looking
at McKenzie and Seubert going the Giants will have to go OL in the first round.
The Giants could go one of two ways – draft a top OT to play RT with Diehl moving to LG and Beatty playing LT or
Diehl moves to RT where he has played before, Beatty moves to LT and we draft Lupati.
Personally I would go with a top OT such as T WIlliams or Bulaga.
by G Fan in England on Mar 4, 2010 8:07 AM EST reply actions
Agree G Fan
IMO Diehl is a near All Pro gruard – LG
Beatty has big upside at – LT
McKenzie may have one more year – or a high draft pick at – RT
Seubert should become Ruegemer and be a super-sub at G/C
Rocky Bernard was injured in 2009 – unknown to most of us. He should come to camp and prove he has the goods – or get cut then.
I suspect Bulaga and Trent Williams will be gone before pick 15
As opposed to mock drafters, real GMs wake up in a cold sweat seeing their QB take a Theismann hit. So they crave LTs much more.
Both those guys are legit LTs, could man that position for 10 years.
Assuming that they aren’t there, they can look for a RT in round 4
Should get a good shot at both.
Bulaga has a very Robert Gallery’ish arm length at 33", meaning he’s probably a RT. Some team may think he’s a LT tho.
Trent Williams is not a LT. He may have run a 4.88, but Sam Bradford will tell you that Big Trent is not a LT.
..again, some team could think they are LT’s…they’ll still end up with a half dead Theisman if they do tho (not so much Bulaga…but Trent Williams definitely is not a LT..he’d be a good RT tho :)
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 4, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Round 4
suggest project and we tried and failed with Koets and Whimper.
Will 4 OT go before 15th pick – all depends on it Bradford and Clausen are taked in the first ten picks – if so an OT will fall to us.
by G Fan in England on Mar 4, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
I have to laugh...
Exactly how is Deal “a near All Pro guard”?? What is that based on, since Deihl hasn’t played Guard in years and one of the reasons he was moved from Guard to tackle is that he lacks the mobility to pull and hit guys in space as a guard.
You can count the number of great 6ft-6 guards in the this league on a couple of fingers and the huge squat DT’s will get under Diehl and give him trouble.
He can’t cut off DT’s in run blocking, please explain how he is going to pull, run thru the hole and hit a LB on the second level. Its not happening. If he moves to guard, it will be a downgrade over Seubert who is much better at pulling and hitting guys in space.
Going along with this, I like Beatty as a prospect, but those clamoring to shove him in a LT are crazy. If he plays there, Coughlin better have Jacobs on that side of the field to chip for most of the season until he learns the position.
I’m good with Brunell. I think Carr would be smart to go to Arizona, Leinart definitely doesn’t have a stranglehold on anything..and if Carr could get a shot there? With those weapons? He might actually be good!
I like what they’re doing with the geezer OL’s, I don’t think any really deserve to be cut. They deserve a proper training staff to rebuild them.
Dansby…meh.
Mays?
Of course, for all of his big hits and eye-popping workout numbers, Mays isn’t exactly good at football. Poor angles, bad coverage and dropped interceptions are a staple of his game, as he demonstrated at the Senior Bowl. He’s just a faster liability.
…music to my ears
Master of the squeegee
Ourlads
has us taking Thomas and they are good at getting picks right.
MSNBC has us taking Mays….
by G Fan in England on Mar 4, 2010 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
if we're gonna do anything
I think we gotta do it fast.
The only thing I’m hopin for at this point is if we get someone on Def. that he’s is that leader type that this team has been missing since Big Mike left. Pierce more or less checked out after the whole Plax incident and I feel like thats a big reason why we got guys all out of place on D.
Whether it be Dansby, Rolle, Morrison, Peppers, or any other FA that got has got to take the reigns on the field and help Perry to get his people in a good position to win.
Much like Mays the measurable can’t be the whole story
In Jerry we trust…. go get us a good one
Free Agency
Most of the ‘good stuff’ always happens the first weekend of free agency. Uncapped year or not, that will probably be the same this time around.
Peppers a "leader type"?
Never heard that one before. I’d be extremely wary of that guy and would not sign him.
by BigBlueDeadHead on Mar 4, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
BRUNELL
We all better prey Eli keeps that 87 starting game streak going. I pretty sure Brunell is 74 yrs old with the mobility of a fence post.
I think the hope would be
That Bomar take the 2 spot, with Brunell as more of a worst-case scenario, veteran influence type, like when the Jets dragged Vinnie T back from the dead every year for the inevitable Pennington shoulder injury.
I think Brunnel..would be okay....
I would rather them sniff around to see if Kerry Collins may be available…Maybe could get Peyton Manning to back us up…
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Not sure
on Peyton – he does make bad throws and that one in the SB…
by G Fan in England on Mar 4, 2010 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
Plus
he is a total statue… no mobility. Also, he has had those knee surgeries. I say pass.
There is a 3rd brother
I think he plays for one of the New York teams.
by G Fan in England on Mar 4, 2010 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
It is either
the Islanders or the Giants..
by G Fan in England on Mar 4, 2010 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
Yes there is a younger brother...but I can't recall his name
Actually, I thought he was playing football..
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Actually, he is the older brother..Cooper is his name..He played for 'ole Miss
He never played professional sports..
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
why,
was he a MINI COOPER?
GUFFAW
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Mar 4, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Congenital heart defect.
They say he was more physically gifted than both Peyton and Eli.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Oh I didn't know that...that's a shame
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Cooper was the WR I think.
6"5…sort of like an Ed McAffrey (why did we get rid of him?)
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 4, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Haha..Think about the potential...They could re-enact clips of "All in the Family"
And show them on the trons during time-outs and reviews for the fans…Archie Manning could play well, Archie…and Osi could play the ‘meathead’…
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
KIRK MORRISON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHY ISNT ANYONE SPEAKING ABOUT KIRK MORRISON FROM OAKLAND!!!!
HE HAS HAD MORE THEN 115 TACKLES IN THE LAST 5 YEARS WHICH IS BETTER THEN DEMECO RYANS AND HAS HAD MORE THEN 130 THE LAST TWO YEARS!!
HES TENDERED AT A 3RD AND HIS CONTRACT IS 2.5MIL FOR NEXT YEAR!!!!!!
BE FREAKING SERIOUS THERES NO WAY THE GIANTS DONT TAKE THIS MAN TONIGHT!!!!!and on a smaller note they should go get Tommie Harris from Chicago if he gets cut if the Bears sign Peppers! Go Giants GO GET KIRK MORRISON!
+1, but he just got tendered yesterday and JR likes his picks, so I don't know unless they work a trade
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Go Get Kirk Morrison
I understand Jerry’s thinking but you think he rather go get a linebacker thats going to be way over priced instead of a tackling MACHINE! for a 1/4 of Dansby! this teams needs players that are ready now!!
what makes you so certain Morrison is more ready?
Sure..he’s a veteran and likely is more ready then a rookie.
But didn’t we sign a few young veterans this offseason, Boley and Canty…to our team..and they didn’t exactly look “ready”.
I’d say our rookie first rounder, Hakeem Nicks, was more ready at his craft then Canty and Boley.
And Nicks was injured in the preseason too…so that’s not really an excuse.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 4, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
take it easy....
Basically all of BBV knows about Kirk Morrison. I dunno why we’d all have to ask everyone if they “did what Kirk Morrison did” this morning.
He’s had more takles then those guys….but that just means the Raiders defensive line sucks..which it does.
Morrison is a solid player…he ain’t Ray Lewis. And there’s other teams in the NFL that would love his services.
I’d love to get him, given the 3rd round tender…probably #1 on the list
Agree with Sun..I don’t think JR wants to give away those picks….if something goes on here, we could be looking at making Osi a Raider.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 4, 2010 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
Kirk Morrison
The only thing that I can go on is history and his history clearly states that hes a MONSTER! and yeah peopl get hurt what can we do yeah we might find the next Patrick Willis in the draft but we might also find the next Jamarcus Russell, so of course nothing is for certain but hes definitely a better chance to take!
I agree, I’d like to get Morrison too. Much more then I’d want to get Dansby, who’s not exactly a good fit in the middle, and cost a whole lot.
…Dansby is not exactly the type of player I’d be guaranteeing $30 million to either…he’s no better then Morrison..probably Morrison’s better
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 4, 2010 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Morrison racked uop tackles on a poor run defense
So is he good, or just there 4 yards downfield
either way, he made tackles.
So if the Giants DL is good…I think Goff could be good back there. Morrison’s a vet, so I don’t think that’d be an issue.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 4, 2010 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
I just checked
Raiders were 32nd in rush attempts against in 2009, 2008, 2006 (2007 they were 28th)
That means that other teams had a lot of confidence running the ball against them, that they gave up tons of points so other teams didn’t have to stress.
I’m not anti-Morrisson, I just have much tempered expectations. A 3rd round tender says we don’t really care if someone else signs you, it is a lower tender than we gave Sinorice Moss
Raiders just don’t think he is that good (they may be wrong), but it tempers my enthusiasm
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not painting Morrison to be sliced bread either. I know he’s not.
Compared to alternatives and cost, he’s the best option.
Guys like Ryans and Ruud are better players, but the cost is entirely too much to give up for a MLB.
Dansby might be OK too, but the cost and the fact that he’s not a MLB…make it a bigger concern then Morrison.
Morrison may not “be a MLB” either..but he’s played there his whole NFL career there…including starting as a rookie.
Whatever he is, he’s a starting NFL MLB. He’s young and hasn’t missed a game in his entire career.
I don’t even care if he’s just an average MLB…that’s all we need.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 4, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Raiders are questionable
in their ability to rate talent.
I would not put a lot of stock in where they tender Morrison
I think the Raiders have some damn good talent
They just have shit for coaches because nobody wants to be under the reins of Al Davis.
The Cards aren’t exactly good run stoppers either, yet Dansby has a lot of tackles.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 4, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
and the raider would suddenly have a D-Line
bookended by Osi & Seymour
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Mar 4, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Go Get Morrison!
Look they just reported on ESPN that we’re going to get Dansby but what if we just go after Morrison also and move Dansby to the Strong side and Morrison in the middle, move Sintim to D-line and if possible trade Osi for to the rams for there 3rd pick!! look guys Kirk is 2.5mil!!!!
Morrison is not $2.5 million. Not unless they offer that and want to see him go to the Eagles.
If we want Morrison, we’re gonna have to offer him a whole lot more then what the Raiders are offering.
He’s a RFA…not an indentured servant. The only difference between him and a UFA is that the Giants would have to give the Raiders compensation unless they work out a deal.
Probably moot, as its still a lot less then Dansby..but Morrison’s more likely looking at $5-6million a year
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 4, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Kirk Morrison
we’ll have to offer say 5 mil whatever, imagine what we have to pay Karlos
Are you
by any chance Kirk’s agent?
by G Fan in England on Mar 4, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Kirk Morrison
Kirks Agent hahahahah no Im just a really passionate fan just like you guys and I just want to speak to my fellow Giant brothers(and sister) about options to impove our team!
I am on
the other side of the pond and I can hear you!
I have read on a couple of other sites that all the tendering at low values is a way for all teams to keep salaries down for 4th and 5th year players and that we will not see many bids for RFA’s – call it a gentlemen’s agreement between the owners.
by G Fan in England on Mar 4, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Count me in on Dansby
at the right price.
He will get a great package from someone. If JR can come up with a reasonable contract I am OK paying for this guy.
If not, pray for McClain or someone like Angerer to be high performer at a lower pick.
“If not, pray for McClain or someone like Angerer to be high performer at a lower pick”
thats not what Im trying to do because Kirk is for real! and he will fill in the middle Oaklands D-line sucks and hes still getting 130 tackles!!!! why is Dansby so much better! why not get both!!!
OK w Morrison
Prefer Dansby.
I never watch the Cards so don’t ask me why I feel that way. I just recall the chatter about Dansby for the last three years and he has continuously been rated very highly by NFL pros that know way more than anybody on this board. And franchised a couple of those years.
So…I see him as more of a sure thing in a world where there are no sure things. More costly? Yes. But you get what you pay for.
Would I welcome Morrison – absolutely! Anything to beef up the Giants D. He is a quality player. But IMO I see the ROI for Dansby being better.
It is a matter of good and better. Both would help.
I actually really like this idea
Morrison Dansby Boley with Goff and Sintim rotating
Giants Off Season
Go Get Kirk,Karlos, and Earl Thomas or Trent Williams! Draft Lamarr Houston in the 3rd!
Here's one I thought of while showering (in case one needed to know that)
Osi for Morrison and a 2nd round pick. Maybe since its Undead Al, we could finagle that 1st rounder instead.
Maybe throw in a 4th rounder or some virgins for Al to sacrifice…
..its not like Al hasn’t traded a top 10 pick and a MLB for a former star malcontent before.
Remember, Al traded the #7 (or 8?) + Napolean Harris (former first rounder himself) for Randy Moss.
Is Osi, Randy Moss? No, but he’s a pass rusher and The Raiders could use one (plus..I don’t think we’d need to insist on that first rounder)
Osi still probably runs that 4.5-4.6 …., plus his name is Osi Umenyiora, Al’s heard of him..he’s a great player.
Master of the squeegee
Free
Do you recall one of my fan posts called trade options.
I suggested Osi is traded to the Raiders to move up in the first to get McClain.
Well if we can get Morrison instead I would take that as with our first we take Thomas.
by G Fan in England on Mar 4, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Kirk Morrison
YES BEAUTIFUL!! YOU SHOULD TAKE SHOWERS MORE OFTEN!! LMAO! iM DOWN FOR THAT AND THEN YOU CAN STILL GET KARLOS DANSBY AND HAVE A 1ST AND TWO 2ND’S!!! WOW!!!!
easy with the caps!!
..and yes that’s the thinking.
…well, I don’t need a shower to say no to Dansby then. He’d be useless and a real waste of money if we had Morrison.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 4, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
in the shower
Damn Free… You really need to get a job with the giants. They could use someone as dedicated to the team as you
Wondering?
Where is Carr going to find a starting job after sitting on his butt for three years?
Mark Brunell, is Y.A, Tittle still available as a backup?
Dubious?
I don’t see that, didn’t draft Leinart to sit on HIS butt for his entire career. If they wanted to really find a veteran, it wouldn’t be Carr, more like McNabb.
by Great Gatsby on Mar 4, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
The story about Carr
Originated out of Arizona. They are looking for a fallback option in the event Leinart falls flat on his purty little face.
So, here's the plan....
We’ve established that our biggest needs are at Safety and MLB. The Raiders had the short sight to tender Kirk Morrison at a 3, while the Rams are rumore to only be tendering Ashiomogho Atogwe at a “first right of refusal” level.
We give up a 3(I doubt JR goes for it, unless they can trade, say, Moss of some othewr deadwood) and we have a very good MLB to fill the void left by AP and a very good Safety for nothing more than the effort and money to sign him.
Now we have the freedom to go strictly BPA in the draft.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I don't get this about David Carr
Why would the team possibly want to get rid of a reliable backup QB like David Carr? This is something I have been hearing the rumors about for a while and it still doesn’t make sense to me. Brunell is not as good as David Carr or as young as him. Carr knows the system and has accepted his role as a backup QB to Manning. Carr has plenty of game time experience and he seems to be a good locker room guy. With so many other positions to fix, I can’t see why this is an issue for the team. Other then this being about money, this is a bad move in my opinion.
GO NY GIANTS!!
They don't want to. His contract was up and you gotta give a guy a chance at starting.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Carr wants to be a starter again.
He told them the beginning of last year that he’d back-up Eli again if they’d let him take a shot with another team in 2010.
Carr
The Giants don’t WANT him to leave. He is an unrestricted free agent, and all they can do is offer him a contract and hope he stays. They want him to stay, but it is his choice.
I see
That makes much more sense guys. The rumors I’ve been hearing were all over the place. It didn’t make sense to let a reliable guy like Carr go but now if it is him who wants to start somewhere else, that makes sense. I hope we stay away from Delhomme and Brunell if Carr leaves.
GO NY GIANTS!!
Gotta love
how all the talk is about picking the Raiders apart because Al would never know the difference.
i’m with Free offer him some sacrificial virgins and a bottle of Geritol.. that should net us his three best players… oh and he can have Moss too
Morrison
just spent some time on the raider blog, which if you have some spare time it’s well worth it for the laughs…. makes me happy I’m not a part of that world.
Anyway, fanposts would seem to indicate that morrison may not be a natural MLB. They say he gets lost on plays and is not a leader. I don’t know if we really need another special needs kid on the team, were already working with a couple of them
I hear you
Think of it like this. There’s been many all of a sudden on the Sean Weatherspoon bandwagon for MLB. Well..he’s not a natural MLB either. I’d have no problem getting him for that, but that’s a 2nd round project type thing.
Kirk Morrison is basically Sean Weatherspoon 5 years from now. Maybe not “a natural”…but he’s there.
Looking at all the football outsiders stuff and his generic stats (tackles..passes defended) he’s doing something right.
If all he is, is a solid MLB that’s gonna cost the Giants basically Antonio Pierce numbers…who cares if he’s not a superstar?
If we get Dansby..it will be the same thing. Except he’s never done it before…and they’d be guaranteeing him probably 3x as much money.
And is Dansby any more of a physical talent and football player then Morrison? I highly doubt that.
Master of the squeegee
Rolando McClain
I just watched a pile of tape on him sinced the Rolle move now makes him a viable target:
1) How do you judge an ILB who never gets touched? I mean, if you watch the tapes, the Alabama front four occupies everyone and all McClain does is try to see the ball and run to it. He never gets engaged by guards, so how can you tell if he can shed blocks?
2) He stands completely upright, which to me is troubling for and ILB. Most of the very good ILB get in a crouch with big knee bend. To me, I would wonder if he plays too high.
3) Lot of arm tackles.
Overall I was not impressed. I maintain we need to draft an impact DT.
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