What about SAM?
by bigblue777 on Mar 12, 2010 9:54 AM EST
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There has been a lot of discussion and focus on what the Giants will do about the middle linebacker position. This discussion is warranted due to the departure of Antonio Pierce. However, middle linebacker might not be the only question mark in the linebacking corps. The consensus opinion is that second year player Clint Sintim is likely to get the chance to start at the SAM position. The hope is that Sintim is able to turn all of the potential he has into something much more than what was seen out of him last year. Last season Sintim was impressive stuffing his hand in the dirt and rushing the passer, but he looked stiff and lost when attempting to play in space.
Looking at the current roster of linebackers has to leave fans somewhat concerned about the possibility that Sintim can't put it all together this year, or if he does put it together that he might get hurt. The reason for this concern is that Sintim appears to be the only prototypical SAM on the team. It's difficult to say how big an issue this is not knowing what system new defensive coordinator Perry Fewell actually intends to run, but if the system calls for a bruiser SAM the Giants do not appear well prepared at the position (if the system is more Tampa 2 and calls for a more athletic SAM our projected starter does not seem like a good fit which is a whole new issue). Currently the Giants have three WILLs on the team: Boley, Wilkinson, and Kehl (with Boley being a solid starter and the other two having not shown much to be impressed about), a Mike in Jonathon Goff, a special teamer in Blackburn who can handle some reserve duties at WILL and Mike (a classic small physical talent huge heart player), and a long snapper in Zak DeOssie who is technically a LB but not expected to really see any time there.
Assuming the Giants address the middle linebacker position early in the draft, which seems to be a popular expectation, what do they do about the SAM position? Are the Giants going to need to look at taking two linebackers in this draft? Is there anything remaining on the free agent/restricted free agent market that fills the need? Furthermore, the immediate reaction to Antonio Pierce leaving is that the Giants biggest need is instantly middle linebacker, but when one evaluates the linebacker situation closely it is revealed that there are not one but two linebacker positions where young unproven players are expected to step into a starting role. This begs the question is Clint Sintim anymore a guaranteed solution at SAM than Jonathon Goff is at Mike? If the answer to that question isn't clear, which it isn't to me, it makes it difficult to clearly state that middle linebacker is far and away the Giants biggest need. If Fewell moves to a more Tampa 2 oriented system do we even have a starting linebacker for the strong side? We've talked a lot about Mike, but what about SAM?
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Kehl is a SAM actually.
Like Sintim, he was a 3-4 OLB in college. He’s another one that needs to get healthy.
Agree, I don’t think we’re set at SLB….but with Sintim/Kehl at SLB, really….when are these kids gonna get a chance? Fk Danny Clark
Master of the squeegee
6'2" 237lbs.
Kehl is not the prototypical bruiser SAM. I’m pretty sure all the game time he has seen for the Giants has been at the WILL. I know he got a couple starts at WILL even. I’ve never seen him play SAM for us.
Yeah, not a SAM
Just did a quick look and it looks like yes all his time for the Giants has been at WILL. He played in a 34 in college, but as the WILL. He was not a rush LB. He had a total of 7 sacks his entire college career. Kehl isn’t a SAM (at least not the traditional definition of a SAM like Sintim).
He's backup up both spots
Sam and Will
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 12, 2010 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Kehl was a starter at Will
during training camp last year while Boley was nursing his injury
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 12, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
Kehl is a SAM
He played WILL because of injuries to Boley and Wilkinson. Like Blackburn, Kehl suffers from a lack of speed. But he plays hard, and is worth his roster spot.
“backup of both spots Sam and Will”
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 12, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
Hes a sam in theory but he doesnt have that mentality
plus he is agile so wil is a better fit
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
meaning he could...
which is why he’s backed up there a bit…and probably should we go a bit more of a Tampa 2 style, he’d fit in better as a SAM, maybe more then Sintim.
Regardless…he’s a LB. He’s not tiny either (I think he’s bigger then his listed weight, like Goff and Boley…where the hell do they come up with these?) and he deserves a chance.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 12, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
If we go Tampa 2
I’m worried we don’t even have a potential starter at SAM…
because we were primarily cover 2 last year...
and now we’re bringing in another Cover2 DC.
Look…. Tampa2 is not necessarily a bad thing….
I for one could care less if our Safeties are next to one another or playing a traditional Strong and Free.
but I do not want to see our Corners in Zone Coverage….PF can put our Corners in Man and still play a Tampa2…and i think we’ll be successful.
but to think that this guy is not going to run a Tampa2 because all of a sudden he’s a Giant doesn’t hold water IMO.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Man corners does not equal Tampa 2
The Tampa 2 is built on a cover 2 where your corners are essentially always in zone coverage. The Tampa 2 basically consists of the one cover 2 play out of a couple formations with mayb some stunts or mixups on the line. Essentially it is about running one play to perfect execution rather than having a miriad of plays to confuse the offens with.
What you are describing is 2 man under, a base play of a standard 34 team. In 2 man under you play two safeties in deep zone and play entirely man underneath. The general theory of 2 man under is that you can have your corners play press and they have safety help over top if they get burnt playing tight and physical. Spags used 2 man under.
yes, this is true...
again, this is what I want PF to run…and while I should not have referred to it as “classic” tampa2, it is a variation of that….in a way…and i think something that is very possible to take place here in NY considering PF has mentioned on occasions that he likes his corners in Man Coverage.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
I'm willing to bet that we will run multiple schemes
We already have been running a hybrid as is pretty much everybody nowadays. We’re based on a standard 4-3, but our 4 Aces package is a common 3-4 alignment, shifting the DE in to DT and having one OLB with his hand in the sand. Last year we ran alot of 1 high, 1 in the box, but really didn’t run the cover 2 very often, with one safety sneaking up at the snap.
The normal Cover 2/Tampa 2 is a read and react secondary, we were more of an attacking D, although less than Spags due to dropping half of the blitz package.
I think that the biggest issue we had scheme-wise is that we never really adjusted the two halves of the field to conform with eachother. We cut our blitzes but still brought our safeties up. We left gaps in our zones and didn’t pass our coverages off. Up front, we simply weren’t gap sound which left alot exposed. You can’t have zones and give more room for less players to cover without help.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I just think Sheridan was going back and forth way too much....
It’s one thing to make subtle changes here and there but I thought he was making drastic changes through the course of the year.
I thought that both Philly games and the NO game were almost exclusively Cover 2 Schemes …w/ both Safeties playing back.
I thought that ATL, SD, ARZ were more single high (man coverage schemes)….oh the 2nd Dallas game too when Rouse was playing in the Box all game.
for whatever reason, i honestly can’t remember what we did the last two week vs. Carolina and Minn….were those games cancelled????
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
4 aces is not a 34 package
I’m not sure where you are coming from linking 4 aces to the 34. 4 aces is about putting 4 DE type players on the field. 34 DE are more like DTs in a 43. The move you are talking about in the 34 is just a 34 team swapping into a 43 or ebing a ‘hybrid’. 4 aces is going a step further and attempting to put 43 type DEs on the field.
Actually, the 4 Aces is about getting your best pass rushers on the field
The reason I refer to it as a common 3-4 alignment(and there are several sources to back that up) is this:
Common 3-4 alignment
DE NT DE (Jack or Elephant OLB)
OLB TED MIKE
4 Aces on Giants
DE 3Tek DE SLB
WLB MLB
CB CB
S or CB
S
S
I didn’t put the secondary into the 3-4 as it’s a front used in alot of different situations. I know this because I played Jack in that alignment for years.
I never said it was a 3-4 package just a common 3-4 alignment and the 3-4 was designed to get at the passer. I’m sure that’s where Spags got it from.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Wow this thing aligns differently when you post it
3-4
DE……NT…..DE….Jack
OLB……TED….MIKE
4 Aces
DE…..3Tek…..DE…..SLB
WLB……….MLB
CB………………………………………….CB
S or CB
S
S
That should be better
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I get what you are trying to say
but it’s a stretch. 4 aces is just a 43 package with the DTs swapped for DEs. It had worked for the Giants because we’ve had a surplus of talent at that position It wouldn’t be possible for every 43 team. In the 34 package you’ve show you’ve got 3 large men who are better suited at stuffing the run and one rusher. In the 4 aces you have 4 rushers. When Kiwi was doing yes he ‘played’ SAM, but he was really still a DE, and Tuck sometimes ‘played’ DT but he’s a DE. So the 4 aces front was DE-DE-DE-DE in original form. Strahan is gone and players have changed so the package isn’t really what it was originally. You are saying that the 4 aces is a 43 team acting like a 34 package. I’d argue that the 34 allingment you’ve shown is a 34 team acting like a 43. In a standard 34 package the NT would be squared up on the center.
Actually in the modern 3-4
a lot of teams are going with 2 “jacks” and 2 ILB’s.
Look at the cowboys and steelers. the “other” OLB for them are Anthony Spencer and LaMarr Woodley, 2 smallish DE’s that were converted to linebacker.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 13, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
Yup
and depending on the team those guys play as DEs in nickel packages. Some teams go to a 3-3-5 for nickel which is another story, but some 34 teams just go back to a classic 4 man front for nickel. Pop those jacks onto the line as DEs, pull your NT out, and let those 34 DEs slide together and play as 43 DTs.
I think we're down to arguing semantics
and that has proven to be a slippery slope. So….whatever.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
True
I don’t want to be argumetative. I’m actually just enjoying having someone to chat ‘fooball philosophy’ with. I know things can come off different than intended over the net.
Yeah hes definetly more than 237lbs
He also benches the most out of the backers
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
Good there is lots of talent in this years draft!
That kid from Iowa would be a nice target for us as well as the kids from Penn State. I’m not sure if Sintim can shake that tweener label and Kehl needs to be able to stuff the run better. Does Goff have the mental ability to run the D? He seems to have the physical attributes of a solid MLB.
by Last year in Sec 127 on Mar 12, 2010 10:25 AM EST reply actions
DeOssie is also slated in as SLB
and he has the build for it. Maybe he’ll see more time with Clark gone. Either that or we just accept that he will never be more than a long snapper, even if he is a Pro Bowler at the position.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
He does have the build
but I’m pretty worried if we are actually depending on him at LB. He is a long snapper, and a great one at that. I have no problem accepting having a guy on the team for the primary purpose of long snapping. Many teams do.
Sintim
I really don’t know what to expect from Sintim, which is a very good thing. He could still be a very good player. We’ll have to see how he fares in year two.
by ChicagoGiantsFan on Mar 12, 2010 10:41 AM EST reply actions
Sintim will be fine
I have all the confidence in the world that this kid will revive the linebacker tradition in NY. (sidebar) I hate hearing this Tampa two nonsense, we will have certain things similar to a tampa two like every D does but we are too big of a team, that scheme is predicated on little players who fly around and cover certain areas of the field…….JR has spent yrs building a team full of pass rushers from the backer and End positions, this accompanied with man cover corners and safeties also directly do not mix with a cover two scheme. A C2 scheme would be a waste of our talent to be honest with you. Back to this linebacker thing!
Sam can be played by Goff and Blackburn as well, Chase has actually taken reps there before. Everyone called sintim stiff which he was but lets look at it carefully. Goff looked stiff too so i think its more of they were thinking too much and not reacting. It has nothing to do with them not being able to move. Sintim is special and if you cant see that you cant spot talent. I think we should bolster our LB positions period but I think all of linebackers for the most part can play either spot
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
I'm no bigger a fan of Tampa 2 than you
However, to have the team hire a defensive coordinator that has been so deeply associated with the Tampa 2 for such a long time and not question what that means for the future of the defense would be silly. Sintim is our only monster LB, so really are we that big of a defense that Tampa 2 is impossible? We aren’t monsterous on the defensive line either . We have pass rushing ends, smaller DTs (Canty is an overgrown DE). Those fit a Tampa 2. We already had centerfield style Kenny Phillips at safety now we have converted corner Antrel Rolle to lineup next to him, yup can fit a Tampa 2. I wouldn’t write off a ampa 2 or at least Tampa 2 influenced scheme.
As for Sintim. The dude is a heaping pile of athletic potential. The question is can he make the leap from amazing athlete to amazing football player. The potental is 100% there. I just haven’t seen enough to say he for sure can take advantage of it.
I see your point
I didnt say we couldnt play it, i said it would be senslesss, Tampa 2 to me is a scheme you play when your missing man cover corners and bigger players…… why play zone when you have the ability to lock people dwn man to man….. and we are monsterous compaired to Tampa and indianapolis two teams who are even moving away from that scheme. C2 is out dated. Perry fewell is not a C2 coach, Dick jauron loves that scheme and made him run it, he would rather man up and be aggresive and bump WR’s but jauron rather play off corners so fewell is excited to have the leesh off of him. Trust me we are tooooo aggresive of a team to play C2 all out. the only thing that we will probably do is always have the line going down hill instead of dropping DE’s into coverage ( which you still have to do time to time)
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
I hate Tampa 2
I’m not advocating for it for sure. All I know of Fewell is Tampa 2 with the Bills and Bears (the Bears Tampa 2 system is at least more aggressive). If he really wants to break out of the Tampa 2 I’m excited. I too think the system is out of date in the modern NFL. Of course I’m not a big fan of dropping DEs into coverage either. I guess only time will tell what the futue of the Giants defense will be. For a while I was thinking we were going to convert to 34 under Romeo Crennel, but that never panned out.
This is why
I have been banging the AJ Edds drum (by myself apparently). He is a “true” SAM LB from Iowa. He has good size and coverage ability and is just your typical Iowa football player. He is smart and fundamentally sound late 3rd or early 4th rd prospect. He would give us a little depth at the position.
I’m going to try and convert people like Free did for Spiller…..AJ Edds for SAM.
Clint Sintim is awesome
He’s physical, a hard-hitter, great raw ability, and very versatile. He just needs to get the technique aspect of the NFL figured out, and we got ourselves our 4-3 SAM linebacker of the future. Maybe we can line up in some 3-4 alignments next year to help fit Sintim’s strengths, hehe.
not having a good SAM is not a big deal
SAM is the most useless position on the defense, they are on the field only 35% – 40% of the time. Even if we have to put Blackburn there for the whole year I think we could still play great defense
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 12, 2010 6:56 PM EST reply actions
I think Sintim will be ready to take over on 1st and 2nd down at SAM
and then get into the pass rush rotation on 3rd and long etc.However as far as 4 aces I would like to see Sintim at LE at times,but never Kiwi inside..rather have a stud DT pass rusher and Tuck for that…there still has to be some size in there on 3rd down.Not that Sintim would replace Kiwi on 3rd but rotate him in accordingly.
That was the plan for Sintim all along, but they had to bring him up in the new position
before they put him out there for all 3 downs. Clark probably won’t be with us, so he’s the pencilled in starter.
I think Kiwi was never really the option inside. If they put him there last season it was because of injuries. Canty was supposed to be in that mix and he was injured. Half of Tuck’s game was gone with the shoulder in a harness, so you couldn’t move him inside.
You have several pass rushers on this team in Osi, Tuck, Kiwi, Alford, Canty, Sintim and Boley so there’s even more ways to get creative. That’s not even mentioning the DB’s who can rush or Kiehl, who can as well. If we get McClain, he seems to always be in the backfield.
We can definitely mix that group up with all the options both inside and out. Let’s hope for a healthy season, so we really know what we have.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Kiwi was inside
on the original version of 4 aces. The original lineup was Osi and Strahan on the outside with Kiwi and Tuck inside. There was usually twisting and stunting going on reducing the issue of not having a bulk player. It also helped all of those guys played very gap discilined for Spags. Usually Spags would ratchet things up even more by walking the linebackers down into the A gap.Someone would come someone would bail lineman would be twisting and stunting. Essentially mass controlled confusion would ensue making offensive lineman pee their jock straps and quarterbacks fall down. Man, those were good plays to watch.
It sure will be interesting to see what we do this year.
Looking at the SAM
if they do feel that cleaning house is (Danny Clark, Wilkinson, maybe Blackburn goes too)
Aside from AJ Edds who was mentioned, another one is Jermaine Cunningham. I doubt that he falls this far, but if the guy is there in the 4th, that’s a hell of a value pick.
Mostly played DE with the Gators and bulked up to 266lbs in the offseason, so maybe that’s not an option.
Looking at his combine numbers he’s no less athletic then Kiwi or Sintim (probably more so…actually), and if we’re looking at a big SAM..in the 4th, Cunningham would be a hell of a pick.
I might take him in the 3rd in the MTD’s live draft
Master of the squeegee
BTW...
McClain fell to #15, and I got Nate Allen in round 2.
Thinking about Linval Joseph in round 3, RB or OL in round 4, OL again in round 5.
Love to have it go
3) Cunningham for SAM
4) Linval Joseph (….with him on board, quite possibly..a 3-4 could be possible in the future, he’s a NT)
5) Ciron Black
6)RB
7) ? Punter?
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 13, 2010 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
on 4th thought….
I think I’ll go for Joseph in round 3. 6"5 330lbs dudes who bench 39 reps (34"arms…same as Mt. Cody) and run 5.09 40’s aren’t your everyday occurrence.
Should that happen..peep the 3-4 allignment!
DL
Tuck- I know…bad fit probably…but if Joseph is the real deal at NT…plenty of 3-4 DE’s have been pass rushers..see Marshall, Leonard
Joseph
Canty
LBs
Osi ..bad fit #2…….2 wrongs can make a right? DeMarcus Ware went from Troy DE to 3-4 monster. Osi likes to fly upfield anyway…
Insane McClain
Boley
Sintim
..and Kiwi, Kehl and Goff filling in. Maybe I get lucky with Jermaine Cunningham in round 4?
..not saying we do that (cuz 4-3 could/work too of course) but Joseph I think can be a steal as a NT
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 13, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
...probably start Kiwi over Sintim
…my post numbers are inflating.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 13, 2010 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
Kiwi over Osi
If I was going to convert the Giants into a 34 team (gave this a lot of thought when there was talk of Romeo coming to town) I’d be starting Kiwi over Osi. Tuck has played the 3 tech DT, so I think he could probably cut it as a 34 DE. Canty is a natural 34 DE. Like you pointed out we’d need to add a NT like Joseph. Sintim is a natural 34 OLB. Kiwi would be a convert, but he’s played SAM and DE so he has the combo of skills needed. Kehl becomes a more valuable backup as he played the 34 in college. Osi is pretty much the odd man out. I just don’t think he could make the transition. I’ve seen him drop during zone blitzes and it just isn’t pretty. You’d probably be lookin at shopping him if you made the transition. I really don’t think any of this happens now that Fewell is the coordinator.
don’t be so sure that its not in question with Fewell.
They didn’t do it with Buffalo last year, but when they drafted Aaron Maybin I remember they wanted to eventually do it, Maybin at 250lbs (and Schobel, at 250lbs) is better off as an OLB.
Buffalo’s going to the 3-4 now tho.
I doubt it, but should they get someone like Joseph after getting McClain, they’ll have pieces for it
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 13, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe after Osi is gone?
Who knows what the future holds, but Osi’s contract is up soon. You never know I guess. Reese has grabbed up a lot of pieces that would fit a 34. We did play a 34/43 hybrid before Spags.
Tyshovnytsky & Kevin Matthews are nagging at me from my board
Top half D bottom O with a trade down in the 4th for an extra 5th.
so far I’ve got:
1. (#10 from JAX)ILB Rolando McClain- Alabama
1(#15) to JAX for our 3rd & #15
2.(#46)to ARI for their #58 & #89
2.(#58 from ARI) DT Lammar Houston- Texas
3(#89 from ARI)) FS Major Wright- Florida
4(#112) to SD for #123 & #155
4(#123 from SD) CB Akwasi Owusu-Ansah- Indiana of Pennsylvania
5(#143) T Andrew Tyshnovnytsky- Fordham
5(#155) RB Deji Karim- Southern Illinois
6(#174) OC/G Kevin Matthews
7(#205) TE Nate Byham
I’d also like us to bring in Brody Eldridge as a UDFA for blocking TE competition as well as a host of others I’ve yet to get to.
I’ll eventually post with bio’s, numbers and my rationale, but this is the most recent. I’m having big issues with the 2nd & 3rd rounds and the trades were based on possible needs of partner teams and abundance of picks in their posession.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
that's a lot of wheeling and dealing...
I don’t think its necessary.
The Jags may want McClain for themselves too
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 13, 2010 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
Lombardi thinks so
Just saw on NFL.com Lombardi is projecting the Jags go McClain at #10.
Jags need picks and they're the most likely to trade down at this point
They don’t have a 2nd rounder, but have 2 in the 3rd. With those three they can maneuver to pluck Wunderkind Tebow and help their attendance problems.
The word is that they’ve been contacting teams already. It’s also right before Denver, who just released Andra Davis, picks.
This is just an early version and things will change as free agency unfolds. The reason for the deals was to regain the 3rd and add a 5th, so we could add depth at several positions of need and improve our special teams while maintaining the value of the picks. When I go to post it, in whatever state it is, I’ll give the rationale for each move.
So I got creative.
I take Lombardi with a huge grain of salt. Some of these Ex-GM types are pretty whacky. Him, Casserly and Brandt have got loads of wisdom, but sometimes not a lick of sense. They’ve come up with some odd crap at times.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Not bad
I don’t kow how I feel about using the 2 to bring in another 3 tech DE. If anything I feel like we need better depth at the NT spot than the 3 tech. Major Wright would add some good depth at safety. Would rather see a power back than another speed back. I understand the potential in the return game, but you’ve got another returner on your board and we have Hixon and Moss (ok so we have Hixon).
I gotcha and already thought about it.
There is an abundance of 3-4 teams that need NT help and only a few NT’s. I originally wanted a NT type for the depth, but we can use a big kid with pass rushing skills and we are currently playing Cofield and Bernard at NT in rotation. There was alot of issues with value at pick positions and this is the best value due to off the field issues bringing Houston’s stock down.
Karim is anything but a straight speed back and his value as a returner gives value. He can run, catch, block and return and accelerates like you wouldn’t believe. 5’9" and 210lbs is not the build of a speed back. He just happens to be very fast. He’s a great change of pace back that threatens home run every time he touches the ball and he has no problem breaking tackles. Remember, this is Jacobs’ Alma Mater and they run alot between the tackles.
Matthews is the son of Bruce Matthews. If you believe in the Manning pedigree, how about them Matthews boys?
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I love the Mathews pick
I am very concerned about our lack of depth at center. Bringing in a kid with that kind of pedigree would be a great pick. I’d venture his chance of being able to beat out one of the current OL reserve players is pretty good since we don’t have a single player that can snap a ball other than O’Hara!
Didn’t realize Karim weighed in at 210, that is bigger than I thought. Of course I’m still feeling as though we need a RB potentially higher up the draft board because I’ve lost my faith in Jacobs.
Cunningham's played OLB for the Gators too...
and dropped into coverage. I don’t think it’d be a problem to look at him as depth for SAM.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 13, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
back to the LB's
fact is none of us know enough about the 3 young guys we got. The whole situation draws astriking comparison to our WR questions of last year. I’ve heard almost everyone on here say they trust JR and Co…. well lets see if he was right again. We don’t need to sell ourselves up the river for LB help(weak or strong). Yeah drafting one seems pretty neccesary and so i say we do it when that LB is the best guy on the board and we’re up. No trades, no BS, just get what we can. JR seems to have a pretty good handle on talent evaluation lets give the young guys a fair shot at it and see what happens without selling the farm to try and fill a need we may have already filled with the last two drafts.
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