OK, This is it! McClain or Weatherspoon?
by Curtis Sexton on Mar 11, 2010 12:41 AM EST
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PrintOK, Let's put all other positions aside for a moment. I have one question for Giant fans. Mcclain or Weatherspoon?
I personally don't understand why Mcclain is ranked so much higher than Spoon. McClain has the size advantage yes, but that is all. Mcclain played on a better defensive team but Spoon still held his own. McClain isn't too slow for the NFL but I think he is too slow for us,(especially with the running backs in Dallas and Philly) and now we find out he has health issues.
Spoon is faster, stronger, just as smart, has good hips and can play all three positions, McClain certainly cannot. (Reese and company loves versatility) Spoon has more personality (which is always a plus in NY). They are both really good tacklers and can read and react very well. In my opinion Spoon will be the better NFL player out of the two. If we can trade back to pick up Weatherspoon and an extra pick, great. However, that will not happen. Weatherspoon will not make it out of the top 20. McClain will fall out of the top 10. They will both go between 11 and 20. I have been watching tape on this kid and he is the truth. I'm tired of people saying 15 is a reach for Spoon, that's ridiculous.
I saw McClain's workout and have to say I was not impressed. After not working out in the combine. He needed to blow away his pro day. He didn't. I want Spoon on our team and I have been saying this since before the draft but now I ask you all. McClain or Weatherspoon?
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However
I will stand behind whatever Reese decides. He is a great GM. And has done an outstanding job so far. Let’s go blue!!
I don't know the details of Spoon's combine
How did he do? I’ve mostly been paying attention to picks before and up to the Giants’ #15, but the last time I checked he was going at the end of the first round. Isn’t #15 a bit of a reach for him? How much of the negativity regarding McClain is the result of over analyzing a prospect who is constantly in the limelight. Top prospects face scrutiny 24/7 and sometimes scouts say negative things simply because they don’t want to repeat themselves.
I don’t really care about their personality beyond their desire to “go our there like a bunch of crazed dogs” and lay some wood on some offensive players.
34 bench reps, 4.57 in the 40. all his times were better than mcclain. Scrutiny? I haven’t heard anything bad about Suh!
Actually with Suh...
I’ve been a little bit confused. A month or so ago everybody was saying that Suh was the best DT prospect in 10-15 years. Now, despite beasting his combine, you’ll see the occasional mock draft putting Gerald McCoy above him. I’m not talking about Joe Schmo’s mock either, some pretty prominent mocks have been weird as of late.
I’m not saying the criticism of McClain is unwarranted…I am saying that 24/7 coverage of the months leading up to the draft combined with everybody looking for the smallest thing that separates prospect A from B is bound to have a bit of a bias you know? Sort of the, if you look for something wrong, you’re gonna find it concept.
The difference is simple
Weatherspoon is 6’1, 239 per the wiki, while McClain is 6’4, 258. Size matters at the linebacker position, bigger MLBs have an easier time shedding blocks from centers/guards coming down to block on the second level. Not that size is determinative – just as 6’1 Ray Lewis or 5’10 London Fletcher or even the 6’1 Patrick Willis – but bigger is an advantage. Plus, are we sure Weatherspoon can play MLB in the NFL? I thought he was supposed to be more of a space player and less physical, a Michael Boley type, but I am working only off what I’ve read on the internet so I’m far from certain.
This is the modern NFL
The 6’1" 230-240lb linebacker is going to become the desired size over the larger backers. Offenses are running a lot more 3 or 4 wide sets, a lot more screens, and in generally a lot more fast paced plays. The beast of a 250-260 lb MLB that only had to come up and stuff the power run game are dwindling. Those types of players end up only being 2 down players. Ideally now you want a more athletic backer that can still lay some wood. Weatherspoon is that type of player. He is athletic and has very smooth hips. He does play in space well and could easily handle the Will, but he’s not limited to that. He packs a wallop. He tossed up the 225 35 times. He’s got the strength, and you can see it when he plays. He has the skillset and smarts to play MLB. He played Will in college but had the play calling duties usually assigned to the MLB. The great thing about Weatherspoon is he is a true 3 down player. He can play in the base, nickle, and dime packages. He can also play any of the three linebacker spots which give amazing versatility in case someone gets hurt and shuffling needs to happen.
McClain.
Weatherspoon I’ve heard has a bit of a “me first attitude” and seemed to rub coaches and scouts the wrong way at the combine and pro days (and senior bowl). Also his 34 bench reps are misleading, he has 31 inch arms (pretty short for a 6"1 dude)
I’m impressed with McClain’s workout. He’s still battling a hamstring injury and still ran 4.69.
If he falls to us…McClain still.
If not, I pass on Weatherspoon still. IF we want a workout warrior (who of course is a good player too) I’d rather go with Jamar Chaney.
I like Weatherspoon, and would not complain if they drafted him. Given his attitude, I have doubts they will.
…..SO I say McClain if he drops, he did nothing to sway me, and I was impressed as he did all this with a hamstring injury and his Crohns acting up.
Or Chaney if McClain doesn’t fall. That’s our MLB. He’s actually played MLB in a 4-3. His cone drill was 6.90, which means he ridiculously quick. He ran the fastest 40 for the MLB..so if he has to run 40 yards down field, he can do it in 4.5 seconds.
He’s 6"1 242. 33 1/2 inch arms and 26 bench reps (more impressive then Spoon or McClain’s numbers actually). And while he produced very well at Miss State, other then Eric Norwood, he wasn’t among many very good players.
Jamar Chaney. Our MLB…most likely. Boom.
Master of the squeegee
I dunno...
I got Miss State mixed up with South Carolina.
…so Chaney played with basically on his own there…
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 11, 2010 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
Where do you get your info?
Your claims about rubbing coaches the wrong way is absolutely NOT what I’ve heard. WHat I’ve seen around the net is that coaches love this kid. Everyone was very impressed with him at the senior bowl, the combine, and his pro day. I’ve heard he has the attitude of a charismatic leader, not a “me first”. People rave about his knowledge of the game.
Seriously with the Chaney badnwagon still. The guy is projected as a 3rd or 4th round pick. I’m not sure what your love affair the Jamar Chaney is, but I don’t get begging for a 4th roudn caliber guy over a clear 1st round caliber player.
been searching for a video, but I know Charlie Casserly said just what i said.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 11, 2010 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
Charlie Casserly
is really old school and everything rubs him the wrong way, ive heard the contrary, i heard his attitude has him flying up draft boards
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
Casserly probably thinks he has a bad attitude just because he wore the white tights. Just because a kid has some ‘attitude’ doesn’t mean he has a ‘bad attitude’. Swagger is not a bad thing.
From what I remember,
he wasn’t stating his opinion, he was stating the opinion of other coaches/scouts.
Now with a coach like Tom Coughlin….is it too hard to think that Spoon fit right in with Coughlin?
I’d still pass on Spoon and am 50/50 on him. Whatever they do when the Giants pick and he;s on the board…I’m not gonna complain.
I ain’t gonna say he’s our “savior” at MLB. But I ain’t gonna say its a bad pick at all.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 11, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
I saw that stuff on NFL network
they ran out of stuff to talk about and started talking about non-sense
Spoon isn’t vanilla, and some teams will definitely shy away from him. But Giants have had no problem with Stray, Pierce and other vocal guys that are positive. Which is what he is.
by giantblue63 on Mar 11, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Coughlin wants a team player
I don’t think Coughlin hates a little swagger. Does Coughlin himself have that? No, but he doen’t hate it in a player. What he hates is someone who isn’t a team player. Strahan had swagger but was a big time team player. Does Brandon Jacobs have an attitude? The impression I get from interviews I’ve seen and comments from evaluators I’ve read is that Weatherspoon has swagger and charisma, and he is a team player. He could be that vocal leader on defense we haven’t had since Strahan left. That to me is more valuable than any physical attribute.
I don't care about arm length
26 is not greater than 34 regardless of arm length.
Arm length is very important for shedding blocks.
You don’t want to let the offensive lineman get into your body.
sure it is.
Shorter arm length..especially a midget’esque 31 inches, helps you immensly getting up 34 reps.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 11, 2010 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
I can attest to that.
I’m 6’5 and have long arms. Bench press is not as easy for me as it is for someone that is 5’10.
Free is referencing a difference between two 6’1" guys with a mere difference of 2" in measured arm length and claiming that difference accounts for an 8 rep difference. Yes a dude at 5’10" will have a much easier time than a 6’5" guy, but the size difference Free is talking about doesn’t account for the rep difference he is talking about. I haven’t even bothered to check if the measurements he is giving are even accurate.
McClain and I don't even think twice about it.
If for some reason McClain wasn’t there at 15 and we traded back to get Weatherspoon later in the 1st round I’d be okay with that. But Weatherspoon is not worth the 15th overall pick IMO. He had a better Junior year than Senior year.
Why isn't he worth 15?
Really, I’ve heard several folks try to claim this, but they’ve got nothing to back it up with. The absolute farthest Weatherspoon will drop is 24. There is no way he makes it past the Eagles there. Most analysts are now saying that his workouts have escalated his stock and they don’t expect him to get out of the top 20. You are going to balk that a player pegged not to get out of the top 20 is being reach for at 15. A 5 pick difference? Are you crazy? Add there is no way you can assume that you can trade back those 5 spots and still get him. Heck, there is a good chance the person wanting to trade up wants to come up to take Weatherspoon.
Call me old school
But I don’t get that excited about the workouts. I get excited about what they do on the field in college. McClain was without a doubt the better college football player this past year. I’ve seen both of them playing many times. I like Weatherspoon. I think he is a good player. I think McClain has the potential to be an all-pro.
Don’t forget: McClain QB’d the best defense in college football. Weathersoon QB’d a bad defense.
I’d flip your statement about the quality of the defense they played on around on you. Yes, McClain played on the much better defense, making it much easier for him to look good. When a player is surrounded by a great group he can excel far more easily. I am much more impressed with what Weatherspoon was able to do without the same caliber of a supporting cast. Look at our safeties last year. Michael Johnson looked good playing next to Phillips. He looked like garbage once Phillips was out. It’s far harder to be THE guy than one of the guys.
And I will flip that one more time back to you
I will take a guy that was taught by Sal Sunseri, Kirby Smart, and Nick Saban over a guy that wasn’t. He has been taught by the best defensive minds not only how to play defense but how to run a defense. He will be ready to contribute sooner due to the knowledge he picked up working with those guys.
It's about capacity to learn
If a player is smart he will learn the new playbook. Both players are going to have to learn a new playbook. I care less about the quality of the playbook they already know how to run and more about their capacity to learn a new one. Now it is absolutley impossible for us to judge that from what we have to view. The coaches will have to evaluate that in one on ones.
It's not just workouts
I watch them both play too. I like Weatherspoon on game tape. You can’t compeltely ignore workouts either. They aren’t the whole picture, not even the majority, but to ignore them is foolish.
I'm not ignoring workouts.
But a 240 lb man should run slightly faster than a 260 lb man. And that is all he did…run slightly faster. I don’t think that blows McClain out of the water like you are trying to imply.
Where did I imply that?
Where did I imply that I was basing my evaluation on just the 40 time?
Free already explained to you...
how it is easier to bench press more times when you have short arms versus longer arms.
Did you watch McClain’s pro day video when he was performing drills? He looks great out there.
Again what?
You are all over the place on me here. You throw out just the 40, then jump on the bench press. I watched the vids. He didn’t look bad, Weatherspoon looked better. Read carefully here. I am not claiming based on any one single workout drill that Weatherspoon is better. I am stating that based on everything I have seen of both players including game tape, workouts, and drills, I think that Weatherspoon is the better and more complete player. I feel he can come in and play any LB position, play all three downs, and play at a high level. I don’t think McClain can play all three LB spots, and I don’t think he is a 3 down player in the NFL. I thnik McClain is off the field in nickel and dime packages. Based on modern NFL offenses you are in nickel and dime often. I want a LB better suited to play in those packages.
I re-read your comments regarding 40 times and bench press
That’s why I brought up the bench press, since I already addressed the disparity in 40 times.
I don’t think the Giants need to look for someone that can play all 3 LB spots. We are in need of a MLB. We drafted an OLB last year and picked up another in free agency. I also believe that McClain is a 3 down LB.
If you like Weatherspoon better, that’s great. I like McClain better. We will find out in a month who Jerry Reese likes better.
Versatility is gold
I like players that can play multiple roles because it gives your team options. The Giants staff has stated they have the same outlook on players many times, and have held true to looking for players that fill that description.
Let’s for example suppose we go into the season with Boley, McClain, and Sintim as our starting LBs. Boley gets hurt, what do we do? Most likely Chase Blackburn is now your starting Will, and we are going to be in rough shape in nickel and dime packages. Let’s now suppose we go into the season with Boley, Weatherspoon, and Sintim as our starting LBs. Boley gets hurt. We can slide Weatherspoon to Will and use a combination of Goff and Blackburn at MLB. This gives us more options and puts us in a better place.
Not sure why you are so positive he is a top 20 pick
Both McShay and Kiper had him going #31 to the Colts just yesterday. Don’t try to skew the numbers to fit your argument.
He was also considered a fringe 1st round talent until the combine….meaning he was a fringe 1st round talent based on his football skills.
I'm not skewing numbers
Before the combine is before the draft season really starts. Before the draft season prospects from big schools are ranked high and lesser schools not so much. Once Draft season really kicks in and further evaluation occurs there is a lot of movement in player standings.
Mcshay and Kiper
also said Tyrell johnson is way better than KPon draft day, kiper also blasted Bmore for trading up to get flacco as well as saying that gholston was a sure thing….. they are good but they make bad judgements like everyone else
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
Question for Curtis Sexton...
Did you watch either of these guys play in college or are you basing it strictly off of their workouts?
I watched film of them both.
I’ve seen a few live games of both of them but my opinion is based on game film, workout drills and comments of coaches and analysts.
by Curtis Sexton on Mar 11, 2010 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
I'll throw this in there...
Bucky Brooks like Brandon Spikes the best out of every LB in the draft.
…that in itself, is enough to not draft him at all.
Master of the squeegee
LMAO
he is a highly touted talent evaluator and he did not say that, he likes Mcclain the most but consensus from every body. kiper, mcshay, brooks, mayock is that spikes is the #2 inside backer and i agree
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
you ever seen a Bucky Brooks mock draft?
He’s a blithering idiot.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 11, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Yes
But most mck drafts have been throwing me off, the kindle thing is starting to anger me
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
BTW..he’s got Spoon #31 (basically every mock has Spoon at #32 or so)..Jason Pierre Paul at #3 overall.
And Ro McClain to the Giants (so maybe he’s not so dumb?)
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 11, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
LOL
I like the Mcclain part but JPP at #3, never……………..maybe hes just throwing options around, no one wants to have the same mock all the time i guess
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
JPP is possibly the biggest "boom or bust" pick I have seen in years
Risk/Reward says he could be the most talented pass rushing DE we have seen since Reggie White or he could be a Brian Bosworth, all workout wonder and no substance. As Deion Sanders would say, “I could work with that”. I don’t agree, but someone in the NFL will.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
and I hope its not the Giants who try.....
If we were 8-8 cuz of say…Eli Manning being hurt even tho we had a solid D, absolutely JPP is worth it.
I don’t mind the Giants playing “safe” with that first rounder.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 11, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think this is a sum of the parts vs the whole issue
Trying to find individual reasons to pick one player over another will get you nowhere.
The reason that McClain is the consensus best LB by a wide margin is the total package he brings with him.
1. The physical attributes, size, athleticism, reaction times are superior. Straight ahead speed is only a test of acceleration and effort. Sideline to sideline speed and lateral quickness wins every time as a LB. Watch game film, not highlight reels from YouTube, and you will see him around the ball on every play. You will also see alot less of what people call “arm tackling”, when that’s only when someone is trying to get around him. It’s actually kind of wild to watch him coming up on a player that trys to juke him and he strikes to his side with that big upper body. Once he gets to the bigs, you’ll see less of that, anyway.
2. This kid is about as NFL ready at MLB as any player coming out in 10 years. He practically ran a pro style defense under Nick Saban and he appears to anticipate plays like a pro. This is a VERY complex defense and will give him an instant advantage towards starting early in his career. You see him on the sidelines during every offensive position back with Saban tweaking the D and then going out and lining up his teammates and making adjustments. He lines up in all 3 positions at times and is so quick to change up it’s just a beautiful thing to watch.
3. His attitude, excitement and the way he carries himself as a leader. He can handle anything with a positive outlook and he’s only a junior. The fact that he came out and performed with a nagging hammy and inflamed bowels has to tell you something about character. The fact that he revealed that he played since October with it at such a high level has got to be a comfort to Giants fans after watching Ross sidelined nearly the entire season.
4. His performance and production in the toughest division in the NCAA. Face it, this kid was one of the 3 best defensive players in the SEC, if not the best. I’ve been fortunate to get DVD’s of every game he played in. He’s just remarkable to watch. Someone said he has an inconsistent motor? The only time I didn’t see him right in the middle of things was when they were zone and safety blitzing and he dropped into short zone. There is a reason he’s consensus #1 by almost every personnel guy out there.
Yeah, Weatherspoon is a gem as a WILL, actually a protoypical on. Spikes is a very good MLB at the college level. McClain is just a rare package you only see once every 8-10 years.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d816df8a7/Alabama-pro-day-report
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I havent seen Spoon alot
so I cant compare the 2. I do strongly believe that McClain is overrated. I think he will be a “solid” MLB but I dont think he will have the impact Urlacher, Lewis, Beason, or Willis did. I definitely disagree that he is a once every 8-10 years type player. I think McClain is the safe pick because i think he will be a solid player for a long time, but based solely on the scouting reports I have read, it sounds like Spoon has more upside. Again, I havent watched him play alot so I cant say for sure.
I do like AJ Edds as a 4th pick. He is a true SLB with the ability to cover. In addition to a starting MLB we need depth. Time for Wilk and Blackburn to be replaced.
You know, I wasn't completely sold until my mail came in last week and then
got to see him in the drills. I spent the weekend pouring through Tide games for the last few years and I saw some things that just pulled me right in. McClain was not only IN that defense, he WAS that defense. He was as much as a hub I’ve ever seen in a very good college defense. Usually you see more from players who aren’t surrounded by talent as they get a little lost in the sauce. He still stood out like a sore thumb.
I’ve got alot less film on Weatherspoon, but he’s special. Weatherspoon is a more gifted athlete than McClain by a small margin, but Rolo is the better football player, in my opinion.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Maybe you should watch more Spoon?
Honestly, if seeing more tape on McClain is what sold you on him, and you haven’t watched an equal amopunt of tape on Weatherspoon don’t you think you should? Perhaps like you needed more tape on McClain to be sold, more tape on Spoon might show you the football player he is.
The film is not as available on Weatherspoon
Bama had alot more coverage. I’m sure the coaches and scouts have access to it through the school, but I ain’t one of them.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Film on spoon at senior bowl is pretty impressive
you can see that he is a guy that knows how to use his athleticism to get results. Uses his hands and quick feet to not let OL tie him up
Saw McCluster on the wheel and recognized and got to speed FAST.
I just think that if the choice is between them, McC has the bigger upside
by giantblue63 on Mar 11, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
I saw that and he IS impressive, just a good notch below McClain on the field
Bleeding Blue since 1962
The question about McClain, is he too big
McClain at 4.7 is a very good number, and with the whole crew there, hopefully making sure it is a legit time (not downhill or short or something), it bodes well for him.
But at his size, if he isn’t very agile, teams are going to test him day one on wheel routes and others where he is in space covering a back.
For Spoon, that is likely to be a strength. But Spoon being smaller will get tested head on, and especially on plays where he has to string out the RB.
I have no problem with either of those guys. I suspect McC has the bigger upside, and now that we can see he isn’t lame, I slot him ahead of Spoon.
And while I agree that MLBs are getting smaller/faster, if McClain is enough of a force against the run, the team will need less safety/cb support, and they may be able to help him in coverage. Plus at a solid 6-4, in a zone he’ll be harder to throw over.
by giantblue63 on Mar 11, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
I think you'll see a very agile player if you watch the drills.
I’m pretty damn sure that if he’s available, we’lll take him. Especially with him playing with a hammy through the last 3rd of the year and the senior bowl and performing at the pro day. My understanding is that he blew coaches away on the marker board in interviews recognizing pro offenses and tendencies and coming up with alignments to counter.
The only hope is that other teams take a pass as I can see 4 teams ahead of us who could very well pick him. Are we going to have him up to the Meadowlands for a private workout? I think we’ve been pretty deceptive about this in the past, so it could go either way.
Anyway, we’ll see in April.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
He's pretty fast, too. Too bad he's a little small and he tweaked his hammy at the combine.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
he is a nickel back / kick off specialist at best
Too small to be covering #1 WR in the NFL
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 12, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Last 2 years
some incredibly talented players became Giants because other teams were cowards.
Phillips (couldn’t make make big plays WRONG), Manningham (so stupid he can’t tie his own shoes, WRONG), Nicks (too slow, just a possession WR WRONG), Bradshaw (criminal malcontent, WRONG)
I am starting to hope that McClain falls to us. One up side to the Crohns, the maintenance requires very healthy eating habits, and maturity. 2 traits that can only help a young pro athlete.
we’re in a good spot at #15. I dunno if trading down is going to be an option..nor if its a good option if they are targeting say..Spoon.
But between McClain and Weatherspoon…regardless of what anyone says (including me) these are good prospects and football players.
Maybe “targeting LB” isn’t such a bad idea…as I’d place it at near 98% that either McClain or Spoon falls to #15.
…..I guess the debate would be if BOTH fall (…trade Osi for #16 and get both!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 11, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
this debate could be pointless as it could very well be the case that only one or the other is there. In that event you take who’s there. The debate is only valiud in the rare event that both actually are there which actually might be slim because we aren’t the only team that would love to have one of these guys. The scary thing might be what do we do if they are both gone. Wait, wait, I know you are going to tell me Jamar Chaney :)
LOL!
There’s others in addition to Chaney, but yea him.
Maybe I’ll do a “sleeper” fanpost saying why I ain’t BSing with him?
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 11, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Personally I like a LB early and again later
Blackburn, Wilkinson, DeOssie, Clark, Kehl
I’d like to bump a sub with some fresh blood
Deossie is on the team to snap
not play LB.
yea, a 5 or 6 or something like that.
Unless they do trade back, targeting Spoon (or **sigh…Spikes) they could get someone like Chaney in the 3 range.
Tho should miraculously Wilkinson not be on IR….he could help. Kehl maybe as a 3rd year guy takes that next step?
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 11, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
I’m kinda hoping guys like Goff and Kehl are developing so slowly because they had a hands-off, dispassionate (need i mention terrible?) d-coordinator after their rookie season. Maybe with a proven motivator and teacher like Fewell, we’ll see some actual progress from super athletic, intelligent players…
And as long as we’re hoping for miracles, I’d like a pony and for the demons of hammy injuries to leave new jersey and pay a visit to arlington…
Some hammy injuries
need to go up in philly as well!!
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 11, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
and torn larbrum's or whatever they are that Tuck and Seubert had
Lets see how good Trent Cole and Desean Jackson are when they play with 1 arm
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 11, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Don't forget Tony
lets see how he does with Plantar fasciitis.
He “toughed out” that pinkie injury, lets see how he does when he can’t walk without pain to drain the whistle in the morning.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 11, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
yep
it pisses me off how everyone thinks they are now an elite team, while in reality it was 1st string players going up against 2nd string guys a lot of the time.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 12, 2010 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
I still have a mancrush on McClain
If we take Spoon at 15 due to Rolo being picked well no big deal, but in my eyes JR and TC could very well move up to get him. I have a buddy who’s a big Jags fan. He said he would accept Osi and our 15th for a 3rd and the 10th pick… any thoughts on that trade?
Your buddy would get run out of town if hes was the GM and made that trade
JAX has no 2nd Rd. pick and that’s where Tebow will probably grade out. JAX + Tebow = ticket sales. No ticket sales = The Los Angeles Jaguars.
Also, with the Kampman signing, I doubt they’re looking at anything other than the draft for a DE.
I say Hixon is our trade bait. He could be a #2 on alot of teams that could use a speedster and he’s wasted on out squad. We could get a couple KR/PR types in the mid to late rounds. Owusu-Ansah CB from Indiana of Pennsylvania and Deji Kareem RB from Southern Illinois could be good pick ups as depth at CB and explosive change of pace RB.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I say!
Ship Osi and #15 to KC for Glenn Dorsey and their pick…..draft McClain and call it a day lol….boom we got our DT who would excel being back in 43 instead of wasting his time in that 34 and we get our linebakcer. lol i know it will not happen but just a thought.
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
No trading Osi...you guys act like he is garbage....how will you act when he has 16+sacks and 5+forced fumbles?
Hixon is useless and has no trade value at all.Glenn Dorsey would be OK to pick up but it should be on the cheap or not at all.Tebow a 2nd rounder c’mon does anyone but JAX really want this guy before the 3rd round.He could even make our team at all.He’s like Andre Woodson at QB!
I think you'll be surprised how far up Tebow moves after his Throwing session and private workouts.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I wouldn’t put too much stock into that throwing session. He was supposed to have an improved motion before his junior season IIRC but after working on it all winter he quickly went back to his old terrible motion in the games with the pass rush in his face. Tebow will be a project regardless of that and someone will draft him for the future because of his intangibles and overall success he had in college not because of his current of the field production.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 13, 2010 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think we have any "stock" top put into it.
The talent guys know what to look for and will be making the judgement, but mark my words, he’ll move up after that showing.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
There are a lot of people that will want to see him as more than he is and will cling to any small improvement they see in these sessions as proof that he can be that great QB. I don’t think it will be true that he can actually be a great QB, but I do think you are right that he will move up in some evaluators eyes based on even the slightest sign of improvement.
As far as Spoon and Mcclain go(that sounds like a good cop bad cop duo doesn't it?!)...
If JR,TC,and PW are on the same page as to the way they want the DEF to work as a unit and what fits their vision then we shouldn’t worry.For example how the DL system will work as a unit(more stunting and twists etc. or more power)and how deep the LB will be in coverage and working w/ the DB’s will go a long way in determining who fits the scheme.Are we really going cover 2?Both seem to make very good leaders.Spoon does seem kind of annoying but atleast he is seen as being very smart and looked very good in coverage in the Senior Bowl.Mcclain is a beast but lets remember he was covered by Cody and Co.!It wwould be really sweet if we could drop down for extra picks and still get Spoon.
Spoon could go to the Steelers at #18. Farrior’s ancient, and Spoon being an WLB would probably be a good bet to take over for Farrior when they put him out to pasture.
It’d be kinda scary for the Steelers to continue their LB ways (Spoon, Timmons, Woodley are all very young…Harrison’s in his prime). They should probably go elsewhere..but its a possibility
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 13, 2010 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
lets hope they don't go OL so Big Ben gets creamed even more!
Maybe we’ll go OL(RT) in the 1st, you never know.Any RT’s in the mid rounds you really want pushing our run game and protecting Eli,FB?And what do youy think about Trent Williams?
Trent Williams is good for the Giants
he’s gonna be a bust IMO as a LT (lacks the instincts for it) but as a RT, I think he’d be good.
As for the middle rounds, we’re really in luck since we have Beatty who can be our LT. Finding a RT isn’t the toughest thing.
John Jerry or Ciron Black would be find picks as RT’s for us. May be better off as an OG, but at RT I think both could be find, they played as LT’s almost their whole careers.
Roger Saffold played LT his whole career, but is big (6"4 315lbs) and strong enough to be a RT, very athletic too.
It really all depends. Hopefully Beatty wins out that LT position. Then what they do with Diehl is anyone’s guess.
I hope he’s our LG, which could happen as they did keep Mckenzie.
But I’m not gonna leave it out of the question that they cut McKenzie, move Diehl to RT and then draft Mike Iupati to play LG
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 14, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Diehl can play anything but center
so it gives you a lot of options. I agree Beatty is the LT of the future, then the question is just where does Diehl go and what hole does that leave to fill. Diehl is going to man either LG or RT, and for either remaining spot we do have someone that can play it now but could be upgraded and won’t necessarily be there in the future. Where the coaches see Diehl as best fitting determines our more likely direction for OL drafting.
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