Free Agency: Looking at middle linebackers
by Ed Valentine on Mar 1, 2010 7:00 AM EST
in News
171 comments
Free agency starts Friday, and we know our New York Giants will be on the hunt for help, especially on the defensive side of the ball.
Each day this week I will break down the players available in at least one position where the Giants could use help. I figured we would start with middle linebacker, the position that has drawn the most off-season discussion in terms of free agency.
Walter Football has the complete list of free agent middle linebackers, both restricted and restricted. Follow the jump for my list of names to keep an eye on
- Karlos Dansby -- We have, of course, been discussing Dansby for a while. The Arizona middle linebacker is 28, unrestricted and headed for a huge payday. I am not sure it should be with the Giants, though. Teams like Miami and Chicago are rumored to be willing to pay Dansby $30 million or so. Dansby is good, not great, and has never played the middle in a 4-3. I think the price tag is too high for the ability level, to be honest.
- Gary Brackett -- By the end of the week, the Indianapolis middle linebacker might be off the market. The Colts are expected to make him a long-term contract offer. Our friends over at Stampede Blue are a bit indignant about Brackett's status as a UFA, though, and seem to think Indy is the ONLY place for the 30-year-old.
"The Colts are the only place where a 30-year-old Brackett can start at MLB and have an impact on a winning team. The Colts have all the leverage here and they do not have a reputation for being "cheap" with players. So, it's a pretty safe bet Gary will be in blue next season."
I would beg to differ. I don't believe the Colts will let Brackett get away. I do think the Giants would happily put Brackett, "the quintessential Tampa 2 middle linebacker" in their own blue uniform for 2010. - DeMeco Ryans -- My friend and Blog Talk Radio co-hort Patricia Traina of Inside Football is leading the "Bring Ryans to the Giants" bandwagon. It's a bandwagon I can't get on. I love the 26-year-old Ryans. He is a two-time Pro Bowler and has at least 112 tackles in each of his four seasons. But, he is a restricted free agent and I don't think the Giants can give up first- and third-round picks for the guy.
- Barrett Ruud -- The Tampa Bay linebacker, just 27, is another guy who has the skills to fit nicely into a Perry Fewell defense. But, he carries that first- and third-round tender and that makes the price just too high. In a year where there weren't a half-dozen or more middle linebackers in the draft capable of contending for starting job I might feel differently about Ryans or Ruud. But, the Giants can't give up that much.
- Derrick Johnson -- This guy is a five-year veteran RFA who seems to have fallen out of favor in Kansas City. Yet, Pro Football Focus rated Johnson a +12.0 in 2009, better than Dansby or Ryans. In fact, the guy has received 'plus' ratings two of the past three seasons and has experience inside and outside. Here is a little about Johnson and his standing in KC. I really don't know a lot about this guy, but somehow he seems like the kind of under-the-radar guy Giants General Manager Jerry Reese loves to target.
Any of these guys appeal to you? Anyone else on the Walter Football list you like? Or, would you pass on these guys and wait for the draft?
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Johnson
I watched D Johnson for a few years at Texas and he is a stud. Not sure what happened at KC. If the Giants can get the old DJ back – get his old form – he is very very good.
I still like Dansby – think he can play MLB and play well for 3-4 years – but the price may be too high.
Drafting a MLB is still the best option and TC will have to play McClain pretty quickly if he gets him.
Goff may surprise in camp but I think he is a career backup like Chase.
Ryans first, Johnson second..
Ryans is #1 and Johnson #2. I think MSP is on the money. D. Johnson is a stud and would transform our LB corps overnight. We have the guys to win now, so giving up a first and a third for Ryans is not that big a deal when you have a proven talent, instant pro bowl level of play and roughly 6 more years of high production. We’ve tried the draft and we’re not good at picking LB’s. I say lock the position up long term and concentrate on other areas. We don’t like playing young guys anyway.
berlioz1222
I think the problem is that linebackers seem to be very hit and miss lower down in the draft, probably like any other postion. Seems like we haven’t drafted a linebacker high forever!! I would be happy trading up to get McClain, been a long time since we had someone like LT. Call it smash mouth foooball!!! Either that or a safety like Thomas, Washington in the 2nd round, and then DT in the third.
Tender values
It does happen that a team will take less than the tender value in a trade although I cannot recall any off the top of my head.
Does Johnson fit in a Tampa 2 scheme?
I cannot see Houston letting Ryans walk.
Brackett may fit our scheme but he is also 30 so the price/risk needs to be considered.
Dansby does not seem a true fit to our system.
by G Fan in England on Mar 1, 2010 7:29 AM EST reply actions
Foote
Another seemingly good under the radar option. And, he is unrestricted. I should have included him. Guys like Johnson or Foote are, to me, much more likely signings than Ryans or Brackett.
Johnson’s probably the more talented…less productive version of Dansby. He was a former 15th overall pick…but he was always an outside backer and was only an inside backer in the 3-4…just like Dansby.
If we’re thinking about doing such a move, taking a 3-4 ILB and making him a 4-3 MLB, I’d choose Johnson over Dansby. He’s actually much more athletic then Dasby even at just about the same size.
i’d go
Brackett
Foote
Johnson
Dansby
I haven’t seen that Ryans has been tendered yet…so if he’s not I’d go balls out to sign him. Derrick Johnson seems like they aren’t even gonna tender him! either.
But Larry Foote is just the sort of vet. presence this team could use. Unlike Pierce…he’s still some semblance of athleticism and was actually quite good on the Lions last year.
Master of the squeegee
Foote
Is he not more a 3-4 guy after all the years with the Steelers?
He comes as an old, cheap fill in and I would say no.
by G Fan in England on Mar 1, 2010 7:51 AM EST up reply actions
I would’ve thought the same thing.
But he transitioned seamlessly into the Lions 4-3.
In the 3-4 the 2 ILB’s usually are completely different. One of them is much like a WLB in the 4-3, this is why players like Dansby and Johnson go there and fit.
Foote was the other type…the ILB that’s more like a 4-3 MLB (also…this is more like Rolando McClain’s spot too…)
Master of the squeegee
What about
his pass coverage skills – will he be a liability especially if we play the Tampa 2?
by G Fan in England on Mar 1, 2010 8:01 AM EST up reply actions
According to PFF he was no worse then Dansby against the pass..actually better.
I dunno if we’ll really have to worry about it..if he’s a 2-down MLB I think that’s really all they could ask for.
I know creativity and the NYG’s is basically sacrilege…but maybe that’s part of Fewell’s game?
For the pass coverage on third down, what it they go with Boley and a S like Rouse as the 2 “rovers” ?
Master of the squeegee
I agree
he may be a two down player – but given we play against Witten, Celek, Cooley/Davis let alone the WR’s that Foote may be a liability on first and second down.
The Giants moved quickly in FA last year so by this time next Monday we will know what the team was thinking and it will give us a better insight into the draft.
by G Fan in England on Mar 1, 2010 8:20 AM EST up reply actions
Wow
Derrick Johnson had a monster game vs Denver in the season finale. 6 passes defensed, with 2 picks. Very impressive. Maybe he doesn’t fit the 3-4 Kansas City is using? Very under-the-radar, indeed
Dansby might be the only free agent really worth it.
If they miss on Dansby then they may as well just draft a MLB. Foote and Brackett are just as old as Pierce so how much more do they have in the tank? Derrick Johnson and the others don’t jump off the page at me. I mean some have good numbers but we are talking about Middle Linebacker for the New York Giants and they just don’t move me.
looks like our best option
is to pillage Arizona… Rolle and Dansby. best ufa’s i see for our needs. then we can go shopping in the draft for the best defenders avaliable
give them their due
’08 NFC Champions, and won at least 1 playoff game this past year…
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Mar 1, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Speaking of Larry foote
I just met Mr. Rooney owner of the steelers today, he trains in palm beach with a trainer in the building I work at, and he talked to me or 15 odd minutes about his family. Really class guy and you’d never expect him to be worth 3+billion.
Larry foote though, I think he’s past his prime and a bit of an overrated player just because he played linebacker in the steelers 3-4, which seems to make a player seem better than they are. Though he had a decent season in Detroit I wouldn’t trust him to do the same here.
I think Barrett Ruud is the absolute best choice, he’s amazingly athletic and would add a sense of speed and playmaking ability to the middle linebacker spot that the giants haven’t had in ages.
The thing is, not only does he make plays but he’s smart and consistent. He knows what to do in all situations.
by ianwestpalm on Mar 1, 2010 9:33 AM EST via mobile reply actions
If Foote can play well in the Detroit's defense
why wouldn’t he be able to do well in the Giants’ defense?
Detroits pass defense was the WORST in NFL
So I’m not sure how anyone can say they had a good season in that sieve
That's my point
Foote played well despite the incompetence around him. If he could do that in Detroit, it’s only logical that he could do it with the talent in NY.
Foote's an URFA
If he is the best one out there that isn’t demanding ridiculous $$ I’m all for it
I’d see him as a replacement for Chase Blackburn, to give Goff real competition for job in camp.
I’d still draft a MLB high if the right one was there, and cut someone if need be. That is the beauty of Foote, he could be cheap enough to walk away from if you have to.
The Giants would have to give up a 1st and a 3rd for Ruud. I don’t do that…Ruud ain’t no friggin Ray Lewis
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 1, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
well
i loved d.johnson in madden.. he was so FAST. LOL
but with johnson.. i would go there first.. he has the athletic ability for the fuel mlb.. that doesnt mean drop mcclain off the draft board. if we can get him.. get him.. b/c djohson can play outsidet too.
Johnson is the proto-typical Reese signing
He is young, and has something to prove. Plenty of athleticism, and flexible. But KC still has to decide, on the tender (i only want Johnson if he is URFA)
But if we are talking URFA, Rolle is the logical starting point. He was a Pro Bowl player at a position of need. After playing CB he looked mighty comfy at Safety. He was physical and playmaker, and might be a return man too.
Agree on Johnson being the ideal "Giant" signing
but we’ve yet to know what KC is going to do regarding his tender. It would be relatively cheap for them to slap a 1st Rd. value on him at $2.26M. I’m relatively sure that JR won’t burn our #15 on him as he has the ooportunity to turn that into 2 draft picks, therefore 2 young players. Now, if they put a $2 on him I’d jump. We can see what we can get for our #15, possibly getting an extra 2nd rounder and a late 1.
The word is that the Dolphins are going to go heavy for Dansby and Rolle, so I doubt we’re gonna come out of the bidding process with either of those players. I’m sure they’ll make a cursory offer that will fall way short of the final deals each of them will receive. We were, allegedly, over $20M short on our offer to Haynesworth, but that has never been confirmed and actually denied by JR.
It is looking, more and more, like the RFA rules for this uncapped year are making it way too easy to keep players from changing hands with no real , iron clad, committment from the teams. My guess is that Reese and company will be very cautious and wait it out if considering a RFA. Now, if Johnson is left exposed as a UFA, he will get snatched up.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
why not give up a 1st and 3rd for Ryans?
Ryans is a proven commodity, with 1st round talent. so in essence, all you’d be given up is a 3rd rounder for him. sometimes we get hung up on draft picks when they really are unproven commodities. if we draft a bust, we’ll be kicking ourselves in 4 years when demeyco is going to his 5th pro bowl game. like i said, it’d be like basically giving up a 3rd rounder only. yeah, i don’t like losing draft picks, but we’d still have a decent second, and our other picks. and we know JR is a wiz at finding talent deep.
if it were for an older player, i’d say no day. he’s 26, not even in his prime. go for it. i don’t know why houston is even making this an option, they have the chance to have 3 all pros in there front seven for the next decade.
OK, I'll bite
I love Ryans, and think he is great, but at 26 with 80 + games under his belt, he isn’t unused.
The downside, Ryans may have 2-3 years left at Pro Bowl level, then at 28 he becomes good, and by 30 he has become a liability. Then what if it takes him a year to fit in, or even worse isn’t a great fit into Fewell’s system. Now we have 2 less draftr picks and merely a very good MLB.
Nothing is a sure thing, and the clock stops for no man. So in addition to the 3rd rounder you have traded away 4 years.
still pass. He’s not worth a potential starting safety/future OL/future DT etc.
He’s just not worth it. I won’t give a crap what he does even if they draft a bust in the 3rd round…as long as they find a MLB. More power to Demeco if he makes the Pro Bowl.
It would be against all sorts of NYG principal to go head and get him. It would be extremely nearsighted as well.
Yes..Ryans is 26. But a rookie MLB would be 22 and a rookie OL would be 22.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 1, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
also you’re hinting that we “need to go 1st round for a MLB”…an idea that I wish would just die.
Like Ed says…this is a very deep draft MLB wise, whether its for natural MLB’s or cover 2 style MLB’s.
They could potentially find a starter in the 2nd round…all while finding an elite starting RT or whatever else in the first round.
I 100% pass on this idea of trading for Ryans.
Like you say…JR is a good drafter. Why take his tools away from him in the 3rd round?
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 1, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
if your argument is that we could find our future mike in the second or third
then that’s the best argument. if your argument is that we’re trading away 4 years of a career, i’m not buying it. GB63 don’t let AP cloud your judgement. every backer doesn’t hit the wall at 30. AP at his best was never what Ryans has/can and will do in his career. he doesn’t have 80+ games under his belt, only 64(4 seasons) and has never had a major injury.
here’s a list of linebackers that had plenty of productive seasons from 26 on:
- Kevin Greene played til he was 37 – and had 12 sacks that last season!(12)
- Mike Singletary was an all pro at 33, and a pro bowler every year before(8)
- Ray Lewis is 34 and led his team in tackles. doesn’t seem like he’s ready for the old age home yet (9)
- Jesse Tuggle had 5 productive seasons after 26, making the pro bowl at 33(5)
- Keith Brooking just had a surprisingly good season for the ‘girls, and he’s 34(7)
- Harry Carson made all pro at 33, and a pro bowl at 34(7)
- Our beloved LT had his last productive season at 31(+5)
That is an average of 7.8 years of productiveness from 26 on. So from that admittedly unscientific approach, demeco would be giving us value on his way to his 34th birthday.
he’s a proven commodity. i’d take something proven that’s a few years older than the unforeseen that may be a 22 year old bust. Remember, 1st round draft pick doesn’t mean hall of famer. And we’d still have our 2nd rounder, where we could address all those other needs free.
Plus if we were to sign Sharper, that would negate the need to draft a safety HIGH. that would mean 2 of our major problems addressed via free agency(the Giants did say they would be proactive this period). that leaves 5 rounds for the wizard of draft(J Arrah) to fill remaining holes(OL, DL, RB depth, etc.) that’s a done deal in my book.
Once again, i hear you on the youth angle. but it doesn’t matter how young you are if you suck. and if it does take you a year or two to acclimate yourself, well guess what? Giants are built to win. NOW. Ryans is a now player.
another argument to which I don’t like.
“the Giants are built to win now”.
They are very young…believe it or not.
Basically the only spot they are “old” is OL…which is why I want that third rounder to pick there.
My argument is not 4 years of Ryans. Its the multiple positions to which he’s not All-Pro enough to give up for
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 1, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
2nd rounder addresses one thing.
the 1st and 3rd can address another.
Simply pass. JR’s not doing this anyway…he’s smarter and not nearsighted enough to do something like this either.
Antonio Pierce showed that you don’t need an All-Pro or Pro Bowl caliber player on the NYG’s if you have Tuck, Osi, Kiwi et. al beasting.
Get a player who makes tackles. I don’t give a crap (sorry historians..) about the past LB’s and getting the next LT.
F that.
Lets worry about who’s here. They need the next starting MLB..not the next Harry Carson/Peppper Johnson.
MLB is not a big enough need to give up a 1st and a 3rd round pick anyway. Ryans is not Ray Lewis…so it doesn’t equate.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 1, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
its not near sighted
he’ll be a quality backer for years to come. near sighted would be trading a 1st and 3rd for a 30 Y.O. established player.
how do you know hes not the next ray ray? hes only in his 5th year. he hasnt had a down season yet! i know your good FB, but even you dont have a crystal ball.
he is a player who makes tackles. his stats speak for themselves.
i thought about there age when i wrote that. There young but not an inexperienced young. there not a Houston Texans young all over ready to be good in 2-3 years. There a young just recently coming off a championship and division title young. therefore, built to win now.
we get a stud in the 1st, regardless of position, he may not be ready for 2 or 3 seasons. then again, he may make a sudden impact like Nicks. that’s a chance i’d rather not take, given the fact that our stud is already in Houston, waiting for a contender to show off on.
agree to disagree.
I’ll be happy when they don’t do anything of this sort.
MLB is not a 1st and 3rd round need, I’d be surprised, disappointed and fairly pissed and highly doubting Jerry Reese’s credibility if he did this sort of trade.
The Giants don’t do this.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 1, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
If you weigh JR's tendencies to this point with common logic
then a 1 and a 3 is worth Ryans or Willis AND a 2nd Rd. pick.
Draft picks not only give you an unknown quantity but a youth commodity. Regardless of the risk/reward scenario, we all know how much Reese likes his “pieces”.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
J Arrah does like his pieces
and i wouldn’t be upset either way. but if it is true that Ryans can be had, i’d be upset if he didn’t put on a blue uni.
Ryans is a very good player
And he would be a huge improvement over Goff
But you are elevating him to best player in game level in your arguments, you have compared him to LT, Ray Lewis, and Mike Singletary.
As much as I like Ryans he is not in those players class. Not remotely.
Big difference between a game changer and an excellent player.
Ryans is an excellent player, he doesn’t roam the field scaring the the opposition.
You forgot to mention Jesse Tuggle, and Keith Brookings
Who i purposely put in the list because i knew someone would use that argument, that i’m only comparing them to all time greats. The point i was trying to make is that you can be productive past 30, he’s not simply guaranteed only 4 more good years. If you’ve got talent, there’s a chance it will sustain itself well into your 30’s.
And i don’t know about you, but i’d love to have an excellent player quarterbacking a very good D to some playoff appearances and hopefully another title.
Draft picks are unproven, we are all assuming that whoever we get will be an instant star in the NFL. Hakeem Nicks is fresh on everyone’s minds, but we’re forgetting the William Josephs’ of the world. Its a crap shoot, why not go for what we know as opposed to what we don’t?
Besides, all Shockey haters should be happy to have him here. He slammed Shockey on his ass in a scrimmage game last summer!
Whatchu talkin' 'bout Willis?!
Nobody is comparing Ryans to Lewis, I wouldn’t compare ANYONE to LT(there will never be another) and I guess you could compare Ryans style of play to Singletary, but he’s got a long way to go to even be mentioned in the conversation.
He’s not even in the top 5 MLB’s, but he is a very good fit for our D and is about the most attractive RFA if the price stayed within reason.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
my response was to wilddre22
i like Ryans very much, i just think the 15th pick in 1st and 3rd rounds are overpayment
Nicks and Barden for Ryans?
Phillips and Manningham for Ryans?
I can see it, but its just not the move I would make.
I didn't see anything about Ryans being compared to
those guys. The point being made was that alot of players had very productive careers into their 30’s and the examples given were of that variety.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Yes you are right
some of the best defensive players of the last 30 years played well into their 30’s.
Since I wouldn’t call Ryans a player of that caliber, I’ll also say its unlikely that he will play at a pro bowl level well into his 30’s.
I would expect that Ryans if brought in would be excellent for 5 years and then OK for 2.
As an URFA thats a no brainer, but for a 1 and 3, not for me.
So you think that Ryans has been playing at a Hall of Fame level?
Because in your counter to the age argument you named 5 Hall of Famers, one who is considered the best defensive player of all time.
As much as I like Ryans, I don’t see him as a Hall of Fame level player. He doesn’t single handedly change the outcome of games.
As for Tuggle, I wouldn’t trade a 1 and a 3 for 5 years of Tuggle.
And for most LBs the best years are 23-28, its not only a calendar thing. Even the immortal LT had slowed down around 29 because of the punishment of playing the games. That is when he went from Olympian performances to merely Hall of Fame caliber performances.
I would say Ryans is better than we're giving him credit for
he doesn’t get pub like that because he’s on a sub .500 team who isn’t a big market team and has no history. but his rookie season they were all over him, he changed alot of games then. or at least attempted to.
Remember, up until they drafted Mario Williams, he was basically playing with c-level talent. i think his big play ability(if he stays in Houston) will show now that he doesn’t have to carry the load himself with Williams and Cushing.
And were we saying that the other backers in that list, save for LT were all timers after there 1st 4 years? we don’t know what Ryans will be until his career is close to done. he’s only got started. Remember, up until he started blowing kisses to the crowd, Tiki was judged after his first few years as nothing more than a third down back/punt returner. And Demeco has already showed his potential early, i think he hasnt reached his ceiling yet.
and the main point is, who are we drafting? the next LT? Or the next Andy Katzenmoyer? the next Bruce Smith? or the next Will Joseph? the next Ed Reed? or the next Shaun Williams? We don’t know.
but we do know what Ryans is.
Question for you(whoever)
would you consider Ryans in the top 5 of young linebackers in the league? i think we’d all agree that Willis is the quinttessential number 1. i think if you go through the league, anyone b/t 2-5 years of exp., Ryans is top 5. in the league. no?
Willis and Beason are probably 1-2 in that regard.
Actually…I’d say Ryans is right in line with Ruud, David Harris on the Jets, Kirk Morrison. I don’t think you can say he’s any better or worse.
Talking about MLB’s too…cuz I’d rather have Ryans’s teammate Brian Cushing…
If like was mentioned down below..Morrison is a FA, its basically a moot point on Ryans.
Kirk Morrison is right in that tier and wouldn’t cost anything but money.
Master of the squeegee
Read my response on Kirk M.
No i disqualified Cushing and those with only 1 year(Clay Matthews, etc.) it’s not a body of work, he could be a one year wonder(he won’t but you get my point) that’s why i said 2-5 years.
Right, willis, probably beason, ruud, harris, ryans. that’s top 5.
So why wouldn’t we not want a top 5 (at any position)YOUNG never injured guy on our team?
because it’s at the price of potentially our future RT..or RB..or whatever.
You say JR’s a good drafter…well, let him draft!
We’re not getting Ryans. JR’s not paying the price. The Texans aren’t letting him go.
If he’s a UFA..this is a different story.
Other then that this is completely moot as I’m 98% sure that JR’s not doing this.
Good for Ryans if he’s a top 5 MLB.
The Giants can get their own version of him..or James Lauranitis or Maualuga if JR drafts a MLB in the first 3 rounds.
I’d rather they go in a different direction with that first rounder and find the MLB later on. If the defensive line is beasting again…Jon Goff WILL be effective anyway….
Master of the squeegee
I am letting him draft
“With the Giants first round pick, they select DeMeco Ryans from Houston!”
(crowd goes wild!!!!!!!)
Also true that Texans have right of first refusal
so even if they are willing, they would have to pay huge $ to back off the Texans
its a long shot
But if it could be done, I would do it.
by wilddre22 on Mar 2, 2010 8:47 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ok
I believe we should either call up Tampa and offer osi+3rd for ruud or
sign foote, draft a 2nd-3rd round MLB and let them groom under him, I know foote isn’t great as I said before but I want a better player than anyone lower on the MLB chart than mcclain in the 1st. After the 1st they’re all gravy.
by ianwestpalm on Mar 1, 2010 10:55 AM EST via mobile reply actions
A 1st and a 3rd is too much to give up for ANY player
barring the second coming of LT.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Sun you'd only be giving up a 3rd
consider it like this: your 1st round draft pick WOULD be Ryans. doesn’t seem as bad if you look at it like that.
it does when you consider they can get a starting caliber MLB in the 1-4th rounds.
They can address 2 separate positions with those 1st and 3rd rounders as well.
When you look at it like that…trading 2 picks for one player makes no sense.
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 1, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Agree, and we just know that JR would never do it. Thank the powerrs that be for JR
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Free...
can a team like the Giants trade down in the 1st right now instead of waiting until the draft and then sign the RFA? Say they could do a deal now to trade down to late 1st and pick up another 2nd. Then if they sign a RFA they lose the late 1st and the 3rd, but have two second round picks. That way they don’t have fewer pieces; they get the RFA and 2 second round rooks instead of the 1, 2, and 3 rookies. What do you think?
I think so, like a draft day trade? I think they could do that.
I’d be 100% for making a trade such as this if the Giants had more then their 7 given picks (which they don’t…)
If they traded back. then moved picks for someone like Ryans…then yea, OK.
I’d still rather keep the picks….but I’d hate it less if they had still 7 or so picks in the draft.
Master of the squeegee
you can't send any old pick
it has to be yours, otherwise teams would sign free agents and then trade for picks in the late 20’s/30’s
Unless there was a major player to trade the pick for
Still not likely until draft day. JR trends towards players for extra picks or picks for extra picks. I think he’s a bit smarter than the average bear in that regard.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Once a while back I analyzed JRs draft success
Tracking guys simply on the roster
Guys starting
Guys in important roles (Like Steve Smith before he became a starter)
Reese’s success rate is very very high. I worry that its been too high and the law of averages will catch up. Certainly the injuries to Ross and Phillips are part of it.
I have never seen a Giants draft pick and said what was he thinking.
K.C & the Giants
K.Mitchell was a great pickup from K.C dare we strike lightning twice..hmmmm I like johnson more than Foote or Dansby….Rudd/Ryan aint gonna happen ..But Johnson and lets say A.Rolle that would be a great off season….then we can draft two takles..1 on O & 1 on D then use our other picks on LB depth and S depth..but what do I know !
Regroup refocus..retool...
I like that Larry Foote guy and also Brackett...but
I think we’re selling our own Goff a little short here..We need to give the guy chance. They didn’t get him to warm the bench.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
+1 on Goff
I like Larry Foote for a year or so but I really think Derrick Johnson would be a great pickup too.
"I'm not a scratch golfer. I don't know how to bowl. I can't read the stock market. Hell, I have a hard time rememberingmy wife's cell phone number. But I can call 'Flip right double X jet 36 counter naked waggle at 7 X quarter' in my sleep" - Gruden
by I_Formation27 on Mar 1, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Goff
goff will need competition in camp…a vet or rookie doesn’t matter…Now if the giants think he is the answer..then I say go get A Rolle and use the draft for OL DL and over all Defensive depth…then we can draft ZOLTAN….also I would love javid best…
Regroup refocus..retool...
FA statrs Friday...(Midnight)
So J.R. and Coach, roll the ping pong balls and decide who you want, among
Dansby, Sharper or Rolle (really their 3 options I think).
I disagree
i dnt recommend getting rolle or dansby too costly, I would go with a mike backer in the first round, everyone keeps saying wait till the 2nd and 3rd round but i think the top teir ones will be gone by the 2nd round. what happened last yr will ot happen this year Brandon Spikes will not be there he is the best fit for fewell system and for the last time we will NOT be running a Tampa 2 scheme, that is not the way are team is built……we are tooo big of a team for that scheme we dnt have small super quick players across the board and that scheme is not an aggressive one so JR, TC and fewell will not be using the tampa 2.
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
Spikes is not a good fit for a cover 2…dead that idea.
He might be a good player..and a good fit…but he’s not a top tier LB and not worth the #15
Master of the squeegee
We are not a cover two!!!!
WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE GOING TO PLAY COVER TWO!!!!!, LOL that is what dck jauron wanted fewell has clearly said he is more of a man press cover d coordinator and how does someone with 6 picks not a good in space backer???
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
Why do you think we’re not?
Who told you we’re not? It hasn’t been said they’re doing anything yet.
Master of the squeegee
i think it has
i remember hearing somewhere that Fewell isn’t married to cover 2, that he’d adapt to his players if necessary. don’t ask me to attribute that tho. i just remember hearing or reading it.
exactly.
Basically..nothing has been said yet.
All I was saying is how the hell could anyone say Spikes “fits our scheme”.
We don’t have a friggen scheme yet.
For all anyone knows, they could be drafting Dan Williams in round one and be doing some 3-4 looks.
Master of the squeegee
Either Spikes is a good player or he isn't
A first round pick at 15 should be good
I am not sure that MLB is as important as Safety
The amount of passing done now, your top 2 safeties are always on the field, and in on almost every play. When it was a run first league, it was the MLB that had that role.
WHY!!!!
why do people insist on trading for a mike backer or safety……am i the only one that sees that this is a defense rich draft……this draft has the most skilled defenders in a long time and we need to take advantage of that. in free agency i would go get a player like ryan clarke and sign him to a 2 yr deal as well as aquire a SS in the draft. we dnt need a DT in the first round there are a bunch of quality ones as well as we can trade for a player like Glenn Dorsey who would excel in our scheme and KC would give up because he is not a 34 DT at all.
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
the only reason Ryan Clark is even relevant in the NFL
is because he can play off Troy Polamalu.
The Giants don’t have a 1st ballot HOF safety sitting back there…do they?
Master of the squeegee
Clarke!!!
did u just compare Clarke with CC brown and coverage inept……how many times did u see ryan clarke get beat he is very smart. u dnt play in that secondary unless ur good. Clarke is solid, cheap, hard hitting and intelligent……as for why i wouldnt go with S in the 1st round is because there are some real good ones in the later rounds. i cant say that about impact MLB’s for our scheme
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
He is not cheap
He should be but he isnt. I read that he is looking for a payday…and a payday WITH the Steelers because he does not want to test free agency. read it on nfl.com I believe
"I'm not a scratch golfer. I don't know how to bowl. I can't read the stock market. Hell, I have a hard time rememberingmy wife's cell phone number. But I can call 'Flip right double X jet 36 counter naked waggle at 7 X quarter' in my sleep" - Gruden
by I_Formation27 on Mar 2, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Kirk Morrison
i heard that the raiders are letting him walk if so ill take him over everyone
mine top would be
Kirk Morrison
Gary Brackett
Derrick Johnson
Larry Foote
any of these guy would fit great
by hotshot5568@aim.com on Mar 1, 2010 3:11 PM EST reply actions
yes.
Morrison’s another one who’s probably better off being an OLB…but at least he’s played MLB in his career so he’d be an incredible pickup if that happens.
Master of the squeegee
Free your getting too caught up on outside vs. inside
the fact is there are many LB’s that could make a transition from one to another. ILB in a 3-4 share the same responsibilities of a middle 4-3 backer. yes there are differences, but i wouldn’t say for instance morrison would be much better than Dansby because of it.
Fact is, if you read any Raiders websites, blogs, etc., the word on the street is that Morrison is quite overrated in the middle. that he is not a true MLB, and that he actually isn’t very good at it, although he still makes many tackles. his ability to read plays and make stops(tackles for loss) are questioned; alot of his tackles are 5 yards past the line of scrimmage. So again, i wouldn’t be mad if he became a Giant, but i’d say “buyer beware” just like peppers, sometimes stats don’t tell the whole story.
give me the player who played MLB anyday over the player who "could play MLB.
Responsibilities are much different for the two ILB’s in a 3-4.
Geno Hayes was the Cards ILB who’s more akin to a MLB in a 4-3. Dansby was a ILB who’s more like the WLB in a 4-3.
I’m getting caught up in it cuz just cuz someone playes ILB doesn’t mean he’s a MLB.
Master of the squeegee
you mean Gerald Hayes
and i do agree there, but it’s not to say that he can’t do it.
they share those 2 gaps on both sides of the center. so anyone who runs inside is hitting one of those gaps. and Dansby is responsible for one, he has to be adept at somewhat stopping the run.
I wouldn’t oppose Kirk M. Matter of fact, i’d place him over Dansby. one because of age, 2 because of salary(he won’t command 30 mil i don’t think). But as i said, why isn’t he untouchable? Decrepid Al shouldn’t even let him hit the FA market if there weren’t warts there that we don’t see on the back of his baseball card. Go to the Raiders blog one day, read some of there thoughts on Kirk. might cool you a lil on him coming here.
I’ve checked it out a few times.
Actually..it was on Antonio Pierce going there..and they basically said all good things about AP, so their assessment of talent is a little flawed.
like I’ve said..if our DL is beasting..simply a MLB with a pulse is A-OK.
I think anyone who thinks MLB is a primary (1st round) need is selling Jon Goff entirely too short.
He was possibly the most athletic MLB in his draft class..THE smartest, and given his special teams efforts…likes to knock the snot out of people.
Again..I’m 100% against signing someone that costs 2 picks. Against trading up too.
I’d be OK with drafting someone like McClain or someone in the latter rounds, cuz they could either compete at MLB or provide depth.
I just don’t think its necessary. Goff needs a chance. He may just be the answer. The defensive line sucked last year. Let those guys get healthy.
Master of the squeegee
Goff
To me Goff should be the first one off the bench at all of our linebacker positions, he should play nickle and still play special teams but him starting in the middle when we have a chance to draft exceptional talent would rub me the wrong way but i am a goff fan, i like him alot actually just not better than the 1st round backers in this draft.
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
McClain isn't dropping to us
Are you saying to trade up?
i’m not sold on Goff. Quite honestly, i’d be mad if week one he was the true and only MLB there. i’d rather us draft a MLB and push him for the job. or Sign a MLB and give him significant time as his backup. But Goff on his own? he’s showed me nothing yet to warrant that confidence.
And i didn’t read the same posts about AP as you. From what i read, they was still on some F—- him for calling us a scrimmage type talk.
Nope
and i wouldnt reach for him either he is not that much better than some of the other backers especially when it comes to effort
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
Yeah on that i agree with Free brad
it is a deep MLB draft. so we shouldn’t jump off a bridge to get him. but once again, the draft is a crap shoot. Ryans is a given.
It’s kind of like lets make a deal. i’ve got 10,000 in my hand, but i can trade it in for what’s behind curtain number 2. could be 100,000, or it could be a pig. i’m not the gambling type. i don’t wanna draft a pig.
The whole team showed nothing last year. The defensive line sucked.
That’s why. Everyone else sucked so it would be pretty out of line to go and blame Goff for anything…cuz he wasn’t the only one. The whole team quit.
Goff will not be the only MLB on there on opening week.
I can assure you of that. Just as much as I’m sure that Demeco Ryans, if he’s a RFA and they have to give up 2 picks…will not be on the team.
Its a pipe dream. A moot point, and not happening.
Master of the squeegee
Yea
I dont know who if anybody is worth a 1st, a 3rd and a big contract extension….. seriously who is worth that i dnt think i would do that for any mike backer or any position other than QB but thats just me
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
i never blamed Goff for anything
i just said when he finally got his starting spot, he didn’t shine. i wasn’t impressed.
And I’m saying no one shined. Tough to smell like a rose when your surrounded by 10 piles of crap
Master of the squeegee
+1
It’s not fair to judge his body of work from a Bill Sherida run defense! CWebb and Osi also had off years, but we know they are capable of being studs as they have performed very well in past seasons…under a different DC. Maybe if he put up similar numbers under Spags than we could say “He didn’t shine”. Unless we pick up a FA MLB, Goff will prob be the starter next season, unless the coaching staff knows something that we don’t.
"I'm not a scratch golfer. I don't know how to bowl. I can't read the stock market. Hell, I have a hard time rememberingmy wife's cell phone number. But I can call 'Flip right double X jet 36 counter naked waggle at 7 X quarter' in my sleep" - Gruden
by I_Formation27 on Mar 2, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
After McCLain blows off the combine 40
not sure i want him
What’s he got to hide??
Some reading material
From Silver and Black pride: http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2010/2/15/1311685/the-time-is-right-raiders-should
Read what the author writes about Kirk Morrison. Kind of sounds like the same thing you’re saying about Dansby. Still absolutely sold on Kirk over Karlos?
Yes.
I saw that already.
And yes..still sold on Kirk > Dansby.
Kirk played MLB behind a very Giants 2009 caliber defensive line his whole career. Give him a healthy Giants line and he’ll be fine.
Master of the squeegee
OK i hear that
i’m there with you. kirk over karlos. but i’d heed the warnings of fans that watch 16+ games a year of there players. i wouldn’t quite poo poo what raider nation is saying about da raiders….
Just Depends
actually it all depends on what kind of 34/43 you came from and are going to, i think everyone confuses the schemes with being identical, AZ 34 is similar to the cowboys 34 and the chargers 34 but is different from GB 34 and Pit 34……it all depends on the requirments of the scheme no matter 43 or 34 they are not all the same.
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
absolutely right BG
that’s why i think Free is too caught up on outside/inside. there’s no such thing as vanilla 3-4s anymore. there hybrids of one thing or another. Inside linebackers in 3-4s are asked to do alot more now and therefore i feel that dansby on natural ability alone would do fine here.
yes..there are hybrid...
but what you all fail to realize is that when they go to the 4-3 look…Dansby’s on the outside…..
Hayes is in the middle. Not Dansby.
Hybrid look OK…but they guy’s not a MLB. Plain and simple. We’d be taking a risk on moving a player to a different position if they signed him.
Master of the squeegee
Again…behind the Raiders DL.
He was a Mike. Played Mike.
Dansby is Not a Mike. Never played Mike. Played WLB when his team was a 4-3, and when his team uses the 4-3…he’s a WLB.
This is not the same. I"m getting “Caught up” in it cuz your dismissing it like its nothing.
Its not nothing. Its a position switch.
Might as well make Boley teh MLB and Dansby the WLB. Boley at least knows our defense.
Does that make sense? I don’t think so…………….but it makes more sense then making Dansby the MLB.
Master of the squeegee
He's a mike backer because of process of elimination
they had no one else who could do it. They basically plugged a round hole with a square peg as you like to say. He’s as much a fit in the middle as dansby.
Soft in the middle. that’s what they described him as. well that’s not a ringing endorsement.
Direct quote
our “MLB”, Kirk Morrison is a sure but soft tackler who isn’t a true MLB (can’t intimidate or direct play) but either a misplaced ILB in a 4-3 set or, more likely, a 3-4 OLB forced to play Middle by default in a 4-3 scheme.
isn’t that what you’re saying about Dansby?
Dansby hasn’t done it. That’s what I’m saying.
Experience is what I’m saying.
Morrison might be “out of place”. But he’s been “In Place” his whole career.
Morrison’s averaged 125+ tackles every year…so if that’s a soft tackler…WTF is a “good tackler”? That’s bullshit if you ask me….
Dansby has never played MLB. He’d be doing it for the first time with the Giants.
Morrison costs less, less of a risk. Has produced while he’s """"out of place""" as well.
Produced more then Dansby…I might so just happen to add.
Master of the squeegee
again we agree on morrison over dansby
i don’t know why you’re arguing that moot point.
and we all know tackling stats are a gift and a curse in itself. it doesn’t tell the whole tale….did he get the tackle because he was out of place, missed an assignment, or made the tackle 8 yards later. as they said, sure tackler, but soft. that’d have me worried a little.
btw
PFF had Dansby as a better overall backer this year over morrison, save for run D. however, he had only 3 less stops(tackles for loss) than morrison, who had 12 more total tackles.
That said, i still agree with you.
that’s OK.
Rankings I couldn’t care less for. I want a solid, starting MLB.
If one doesn’t have to cost a draft pick…even better. If he cost one draft pick..OK.
If he costs 2 draft picks…F that, you fail as a GM if you need 2 picks to get a MLB.
Master of the squeegee
you're satisfied with Goff in the middle tho
not i. that’s a fail as a GM as well.
If we can get Morrison as an UFA, that is obviously our first choice.
but if we don’t get him, then i’m all about Ryans. and obviously i’m not the only one if Ed is having the same argument with Patricia Traina.
I would be satisfied with Goff in the middle if he beat out the competition.
I said Goff deserves a chance AND competition. Whether that’s by draft, a veteran FA…whatever.
But I never said he’s the sole MLB starter..yes, that would be fail on JR’s part if that happened…which its not going to
Ed can have that argument too…..I don’t care.
As long as anyone who makes that argument knows its unreasonable and not going to happen…I’m good.
Master of the squeegee
i thinks it's a reasonable argument to have
there has to be some precedent on these types of trades, or else it wouldn’t be part of the RFA agreement.
most likely it’s not going to happen, but i def. think it’s reasonable and a good move to get a bonified player for 2 question marks.
more reading
go to this link. they do a fine job of breaking down 3-4 and 4-3 backers. http://kan.scout.com/2/393649.html
here’s one of the quotes: “Most linebackers that play inside in a 3-4 scheme can usually translate well to the middle and weak side linebacking positions in a 4-3.”
that proves both our points. but obviously the giants will have already scouted karlos and decided whether or not he’s a better fit for a will or mike backer. and if they feel he can handle it, they’ll pursue him.
Wrong
He can fully play mike backer and excel at it, the reason why dansby is on the outside in their 43 look is because he brings the quickest pressure on the qb from outside, u gotta remember they dnt have real pass rushing DE’s so they have to manufacture pressure else where and he played inside as well, dansby is a baller at any position actually but i wouldnt go after him 30million gauranteed, naaaaah not when i can get a young version of him for cheaper.
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
i agree
kirk over karlos, younger and cheaper. but scroll up about a half a twirl on the mouse….click that link and read what raider nation wrote about Kirk. Basically he’s a displaced 3-4 ILB forced to play 4-3.
Same argument being had here.
But he’s done it.
Dansby has not.
He can’t be out of place if he’s done it for 5 years…..
Master of the squeegee
I have read nothing bad about Morrison
I think he would be a solid player, and as an URFA definitely
Just like Rolle, the team needs to be patient, vets will pop free!
I feel you Free
he can play inside but the best position for him would be Boley’s in our scheme and we all know thats not gonna happen. Michael has our WLB position on lock like rikers island
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
SPIKES LMAO
im gonna keep saying it, would be a dream for us, leadership, meanstreak and play maker. i just know JR thinks likes you guys tho and were gonna pass on him and then dallas will take him to replace brooking in the future lol
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
LMAO
True but i dnt think they have any real needs in their POV so i think best player available will be their pick but you know Dallas and Oakland have a very weird veiw on who is the actual best player available LOL
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
that’s be OK.
As long as its Spikes in the 2nd round..or they trade back for Spikes.
Spikes at #15 is unreasonable and a reach around.
Master of the squeegee
Is it??
thats what they considered james laurinitis to be!! i just think the dropoff from the top two mlb’s in the draft to the rest is way more significant than the dropoff btw the top 2 Safeties and DT’s to the rest of their position so based on that i dnt view him as a reach but i see ur point. just not the way i would look at it.
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
Lauranitis was a 2nd round pick....
? What the hell are you talking about.
I’d take Hakeem Nicks anyday over Lauranitis.
Brian Price is actually not far off of McCoy or Suh…not as much as anyone really thinks.
Brian Bulaga is not far off the top OT’s…either is Tony Davis.
Earl Thomas is not far off Eric Berry.
…but Spikes is not as good as McClain..not close really. Spikes isn’t all that much better then Micah Johnson….actually.
Master of the squeegee
Spikes not as Good as McClain
may i ask you why?? and duh i know laurinitis was a 2nd round pick smart ass but he played good enough to be a 1st round pick meaning he wouldnt have been a reach. do you follow now
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
Sure..Lauranitis wouldn’t have been a reach….the Giants took a better player tho..so Fk Lauranitis and everyone who looks like him.
Spikes is not as good as McClain cuz he’s not nearly as good an athlete. Not as smart, nots as good a tackler (goes for the big hit vs. wrapping up the ballcarrier like McClain), not as good in coverage.
Overshadowed by his teammates while McClain stood out like a sore thumb. Injury prone (always has an ankle injury..tho he plays with it).
..anything else?
Master of the squeegee
nicks over laurinitis
what are you talking about??? of course whos debating that we needed a WR last year silly, do you remember the whole plaxico gun thing and armani toomer retiring…..hmmm what the hell else would we have drafted lol
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
And it was quite obvious…“sillly” that the Giants didn’t need to draft Nicks this year…wasn’t it?
HAM and Smith were perfectly fine..and they were already here. What else should they have drafted..I’d rather not go there.
Master of the squeegee
Ham & smith
You really think they can hold a torch to nicks???? honestly cmon free i valued ur opinion till that remark, nicks is clearly the better of the 3 even tho they are all good, hakeem was the best player on the board and we filled a need. HAM hadnt shown much until this year so we couldnt rely on that.
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
Since they out produced him…Uh, yea.
Hold a torch? Maybe in time…but you can’t act like Nicks played better then Steve Smith in 2009.
If you act like that…you might as well get fitted for a straight jacket.
Master of the squeegee
Nicks vs Manningham
Manningham got to Start in more games than Nicks(Ham 10 – Nicks 6). So he was allowed more opportunities since he was in the base 2 WR sets. I also think Nicks suffered more injuries than Ham did overall even though they were both injured at various points in the season.
I would agree that Nicks is the better of the 3 (SS/Ham/Nicks) talent-wise and his production was not far off from Ham. Free you are right in that Nicks didn’t play better than Smith last season…but I think we all know who will be the number 1 WR eventually.
"I'm not a scratch golfer. I don't know how to bowl. I can't read the stock market. Hell, I have a hard time rememberingmy wife's cell phone number. But I can call 'Flip right double X jet 36 counter naked waggle at 7 X quarter' in my sleep" - Gruden
by I_Formation27 on Mar 2, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Please tell me?/
What have you seen Mcclain overly excel at?
he doesnt give as much effort as spikes, for his size he is not really a devastating hitter, spikes is!, they are both good in coverage but spikes is a little better and spikes makes way more big plays…………………..now free what have you seen that makes mcclain sooooo much better than spikes??
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
for fear of repeating myself…right up a few.
Devastating hitter cuz he goes for the big hit…but doesn’t make the ones he’s supposed to.
You can continue trying to talk up your boy Spikes…but don’t try and pull taht BS that he’s better at anything.
He’s not.
McClain’s in another class.
Master of the squeegee
once again why???/
how many big plays have u seen Mcclain make, and who gives more effort and ive seen them both miss makeable tackles. you said spikes was no where near mcclain but your not answering why. i think you just listen to mayock and those guys but at least they have reasons!! ur just saying hes not good. just like u said a safety with 90 tckles and 3 picks was the same as CC brown
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
do I have to copy and past it?
Go a few spots above.
Here.
Ryan Clark Sucks
McClain >>>>> Spikes = Washington, Angerer, Micah Johnson, Sean Lee for chrissakes
We’re done.
Knock yourself out and go wild.
Master of the squeegee
oookaaaaay!!!! nevermind LMAO
I see you rankings but u have no substance as to why they are ranked that way. i dnt know what Mcclain showed that sets him soooooo far apart to you but cool, maybe you should get a job with the eagles, skins or boys they could use you
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
please FB
now you’re just trolling
Spikes is not = Washington (WLB just like you say about Dansby), Angerer (not a good player), Johnson (too big and stiff aka 2 down player), Sean Lee (injury prone)
I would say its something like McClain >>>>> Spikes >>> Lee >>> Angerer > Johnson
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 1, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
nah…
Dansby never played MLB, Washington at least plays some sort of MLB (kinda like Sean Weatherspoon).
It would be a move, but in the 2nd round I’m OK with getting a player who’s switching positions somewhat….not a FA for $30 million.
You must have something against Pat Angerer….did Iowa beat your college team? So sad….now that’s trolling by hating on Angerer.
Lee is injury prone.
I wasn’t ranking the non-Spikes ones…but
McClain >>>>> Weatherspoon >> Washington>> Spikes =Angerer =Johnson> Lee
Master of the squeegee
Washington even said that he would prefer to play Will in the NFL
But no I don’t have a college team, I don’t care who Iowa beat but all I know is that Angerer is very much overrated by you.
Spikes was the team captain for one of the best defenses in the nation and the #2 MLB by almost every expert and he would be a great fit for our defense
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 1, 2010 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
so no…with the MLB’s..there really isn’t any more or less a dropoff from the top 2 vs. the others.
Not even close.
McClain to Spikes might be big…but Spikes is bascally as good as everyone else.
Master of the squeegee
LMAO WHY????/
You keep saying it but why?? is there such a big drop off in your opinion?? i dnt see it and i told you why
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
Holy shit...
Sure..Lauranitis wouldn’t have been a reach….the Giants took a better player tho..so Fk Lauranitis and everyone who looks like him.
Spikes is not as good as McClain cuz he’s not nearly as good an athlete. Not as smart, nots as good a tackler (goes for the big hit vs. wrapping up the ballcarrier like McClain), not as good in coverage.
Overshadowed by his teammates while McClain stood out like a sore thumb. Injury prone (always has an ankle injury..tho he plays with it).
..anything else?
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 1, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Master of the squeegee
Mcclain
he did all that?? more athletic ur right, more intelligent, just a bit because nick saban made him seem that way but okay, thanks for the intagibles but big plays in big games that goes to spikes. Mcclain is more athletic from a combine standpoint but does he play more athletic than spikes no way. does he give half the effort no way…………… and who overshadowed spikes?? tebow lol
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
Cunningham, Hade, Jarvarris Jenkins, Will Hill, even Dunlap…Spikes was not the man on that defense.
You’re inventing things now. Doesn’t give the effort? The hell does that come from?
Big Plays and Brandon Spikes?
Wow.
Have a good one.
Master of the squeegee
You have a good one 2
Let me guess Mcclain was the only one on his D right?? LMAO and we will see who has the better career
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
6 yrs
thats a long damn time for someone to wait before becoming an UFA, by then ur NFL career may be over…….i can see why the players asociation isnt cutting any deals these owners are cruel
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
and i kept asking you WHY beacuse ur reasons do not indicate a big drop off, they indicate that MCclain may be a lil more ready but the way u made it seem is as is spikes couldnt hold a torch to mcclain and shouldnt even be mentioned with him
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
Guys, guys cool it
And yes, I am talking to ‘Blue’ and ‘Free.’ You both have your opinions, and that’s fine. Fact is, neither one of you KNOWS a darn thing. Neither do I. We’re fans, and we are talking about what we think. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong and there is no way to win or lose these debates.
So, keep it cordial.
Last I knew, there are no professional scouts or GMs who post here — just a bunch of rabid fan ’wannabe’s’ who like to believe they are ‘experts’ but aren’t.
Oh, and as I always say in the end all we want is for the Giants to win. We are on the same side.
I wouldn't want DJohnson from KC
He is a typical bust. A great athlete that could dominate in college against weaker competition but in the NFL he struggles. Not the kind of guy I want on our redeem defense
by mclaren_is_the_best on Mar 1, 2010 5:51 PM EST reply actions
These are the guys that often are the best FA acquisitions
A great athlete that gets motivated after signing a sub par contract, on a better team can show big returns.
Rarely do big name free agents show rewards, and frequently the rewards are short lived. Remember that the cap will come back, so a 5 year 80M contract for a guy like Dansby, might be the hurdle to getting the guy you want in 2011 or 2012.
I don’t dislike Dansby, and I think that he could play MLB, but at the $$ he wants, he has to be exceptional, not just good.
if the player has a RFA after the name
If the player has a RFA after his name I hope the Giants don’t bite. Why waste the draft picks. I see the Giants taken care of the DT, ILB / MLB, OLB, and Maybe the DE in the draft. As for the DB’s hit that in free agency with a few picks in the draft for Backups at DB positions.
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