'Kudos & Wet Willies,' Super Bowl edition
by Ed Valentine on Feb 8, 2010 8:05 AM EST
in Kudos & Wet Willies
90 comments
The ultimate 'Kudos' goes to the Super Bowl champion New Orleans Saints, 31-17 victors over the Indianapolis Colts Sunday night.
Let's do a quick Super Bowl 'Kudos & Wet Willies.'
Kudos to ...
- Drew Brees -- Earned the MVP with a terrific 32-of-39 effort for 288 yards and two touchdowns. In a shootout with Peyton Manning Brees could not afford mistakes. And he did not make any.
- Sean Payton -- The Saints coach showed the guts of the young Bill Parcells when he coached our Giants. The onside kick to start the second half set off one of the wildest in-game scenes I can recall in a Super Bowl, and turned out to be a brilliant tone-setting move. Of course, we all know that if Indianapolis recovered that ball we would probably be calling Payton an idiot this morning.
- Tracy Porter -- Turned himself into a football immortal with his Super Bowl-sealing interception and touchdown return in the final minutes. Football games generally turn on a few big plays, and Porter made one of the biggest in Super Bowl history.
- Jeremy Shockey -- The thoughts that ran through my mind when Shockey caught the two-yard go-ahead touchdown pass from Brees in the fourth quarter were the kind I would generally yell at you guys for if you wrote them here. So, I won't write them. But, they were not pleasant. Regardless of my personal ill-will toward the former Giant tight end, though, he caught the pass that ultimately provided the winning score. Good for him. I'm sure he feels vindicated now.
- Dwight Freeney -- Playing bravely on one good leg, the Indianapolis defensive end was still a force. His one-handed throwdown of Brees in the first half was a Lawrence Taylor-esque play. The Colts certainly can't use Freeney's injury as any type of excuse.
Wet Willies to ...
- Peyton Manning -- This was not supposed to be how it would go for one of the best quarterbacks in the history of the game. Manning was supposed to lead his team to a game-tying drive late in the fourth quarter, not throw a Pick Six that doomed his team. Question is, what does this do to Manning's legacy? It certainly puts some type of dent in it.
- Jim Caldwell -- While Payton was showing the heart of a riverboat gambler, Caldwell was asking the 900-year-old Matt Stover to try and kick a 51-yard field goal in the fourth quarter. C'mon, Jim! You were in the Super Bowl, this wasn't a pre-season tryout for Stover.
Be sure to stop by Canal Street Chronicles to congratulate Saints fans and Stampede Blue to see how Colts fans are coping.
(E-mail Ed at bigblueview@gmail.com)
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Overall
I was not overly impressed with the Super Bowl this year. Yeah, I know, close dramatic game, but it felt overall dry to me. There were some good plays. Maybe it is because my beloved Giants were sitting at home or in luxury boxes instead of on the field. Somethings did surprise me though. The lack of references to Katrina and Haiti, no shots of Kardashian, one shot of Eli and the Mannings. Was pleased with how all of that played out. And yes, Ed, many, many expletives came out of my mouth once Shockey caught the TD pass. I will have to say, moments later, I said out loud, “good for you Shock”.
Since SB 42
nothing measures up. That game ruined SB’s for me. Agree though a bit boring despite all of the passing yards. It was all short underneath stuff it was like two teams who ran the ball and controlled the clock. No big pass plays or anything.
I got sucked in last year
but this one just never felt like a great game to me. Maybe part of it was that I really didn’t want the Saints to win and I felt like once they got rolling, they had it. Last year I wanted the Cardinals, but I wasn’t really against the Steelers winning it – I liked both teams. And that was such a see-saw, back and forth game.
2009 Did Not Happen
I actually thought Steelers Cards was borining until the 4th
Outsdie of Harrison’s pick the first half was boring and after the third it was 20-7 Pitt it did not look good going into the 4th but after that it was great, it reminded me of the Titans Rams SB.
Couldn't agree with you more!
I logged on specifically to write about all of these points, and lo and behold, you nailed it with the first post. Nicely done!
Yeah Ed
Maybe now Shockey will quit the damn whining!!! Peyton is human after all and he carred the team throughout the year. Otherwise congrats to Saints.
where is all this whining exactly?
Shockey doesn’t speak about us until media folks stick there tape recorders in his face and ask the dumb questions. You can’t fault someone for answering what is asked of him.
The only 2 times I remember him talking about us when they played us, and the super bowl. And he came up big in both games! Maybe that’s what’s burning your asses about him, that he’s having a modicum of success in another color.
Here’s the point of it all. Shockey isn’t worried about us, he’s moved on. Yet, we act sometimes as spurned lovers as fans, and that’s not just BBV, that’s the FAN and newspapers alike. Get over it. He’s gone, he’s not worried about you stop worrying about him. We look bad when we continue to cry over spilled milk.
by wilddre22 on Feb 8, 2010 10:00 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
No love lost for Shockey
Wilddre we are spurned lovers, nobody wanted shockey to leave, and to this day nobody understands what happened and why all of a sudden the guy who we all rooted for turned his back on us. Having said that I will not boo or say bad thing about him, however i will root against him for the rest of his career.
The Giant organization has moved on from Shockey and we are set at tight end so no worries.
by Late for Dinner on Feb 8, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
i was one of them
i never wanted him to leave, Boss or no Boss. so i’m there with you. i just think it makes us look bad to obsess over a player who has moved on, and rightly so.
I like Shockey
and what he can bring to the table as a TE but I had no problems with him leaving. Eli’s progression has a lot to do with not having Shockey’s ego in the huddle. IMO, our receiving corps is better without Shockey’s ego and antics.
Fair opinion
could be true, but who will never know. I can tell you this. he doesn’t seem to be negatively affecting Drew, their wide receiver corps, or the NFL world champions….
That's because
he hardly plays because of all of his injuries. Dave Thomas is more a part of their offense than Shockey. Plus, I guess you forgot about the blowup he and Brees had on the sideline last year.
IMO, Shockey has no one to blame about what happened with the Giants (SB and how left) but himself. But have you ever heard him say anything like, “Maybe I could have handled things better”? No, and you never will until he grows up. If he ever does.
Really?
PLAYER G REC YDS YPG YPC LG TD
Jeremy Shockey 13 48 569 43.8 11.9 66 3
David Thomas 12 35 356 29.7 10.2 37 1
With all his injuries, he managed to play one more game than Thomas, and had a better year statistically ACROSS the board. not to mention the little game winning catch he had yesterday. Want to continue to tell me how much more a part of this O D.Thomas is?
SHockey's like the 5th option on that team
Behind the three wideouts. Reggie Bush Piere THomas and that other TE SHockey is not much of a factor on the Saints. On the Giants he was the #2 option in the passing game and in his prime
Refer to above post when reading this Landeta
Shockey is not the 5th option on the Saints. he was 3rd in receptions, and 4th in yards this year. He had more catches, yards, YPG, YPC, than both reggie bush and pierre thomas, and had just as many TD’s as either in the air. and they both played 1 game more than him. and refer up to see how “that other TE” stacked against Shock.
Good points
I did not realize he was third in receptions, it just seemed to me from the games I watched he was not as big of a part of their game plan as he was with the Giants when he would grab 60 or 70 plus receptions a year. Maybe thats casue Brees spreads the ball so well but Bush did miss like half the season and he usually has more receptions than 48 so when he was in the lineup I think they did throw to Bush a bit more than SHockey but again your point is well taken. I think the point I was trying to make is with or without him the Saints O is fine kinda like the Giants O has been. He’s a nice to have not a need to have on your team like he thinks he is.
Bush actually played one more game than Shockey
but yes, i do agree that Brees spreads the ball around to his many weapons. but to not acknowledge Shock as one of them is just something i had to squash a little. from the games i’ve seen this season, it seemed like Shockey got involved early, catching 2 or 3 early ones, then got phased out later in the game as Brees started picking defenses apart. don’t know if that was Shockey’s fault, Drews fault, defenses taking him away, but either way, he is a valuable tool to the Saints. i think most guys on CSC would agree with me on that one(they love him btw!)
Not trying to be a jerk here
But have you listened to any of Shockey’s interviews since he left NY! He throws the organization under the bus and he acts like the Giants did wrong by him becasue they won the SB without him. Yes some media types suggested the Giants were better without him and that pissed him off but it’s not like Eli, TC, or Mara said it. He also blames the Giants for not letting him stand on the sideline durring the SB which no players on IR were allowed too. He still holds a grudge becasue the Giants private charter that flew all players on IR to the SB from NJ did not stop in MIami and pick him up. He’s an immature jerk that caught 3 balls for 13 yards yesterday he did not come up that big yesterday.
I like the Saints and had no problem with them winning but Shockey is tough to root for. I’m not obsessing over him or anything but he’s tough to root for and he was the last guy I wanted to see catch a TD.
From Ralph Vacchiano's Blue Screen Twitter feed
“Every Saint and Colt has come and gone from the interview area except for 1. Any guesses on the 1? Good to see success hasn’t changed him. "
Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't
gets in trouble for passing on the media, then gets called a whiner by us when he sits and answers there dumbass questions. And we wonder why he demanded a trade….
He demanded a trade becasue the Giants won the Super Bowl without him
and he was to immature and selfish to handled that so he looked for reasons to force a trade. I could care less if he talks with the media but the way he handled himself after SB 42 was immature and childish kinda like TO. I always liked him until then casue I always believed his antics were contained to on the field nonsense which I can deal with but once you become a distraction outside of that it’s an issue. The Giants wanted him back and JR was willing to keep him casue the Saints were inquiring on draft day but the Giants did not pull the trigger untill SHockey continued with his antics in the offseason.
Let me ask you what did the Giants do that wronged Shockey? won a SB while he was on injured reserve. Treat him like all of the other IR players. Draft a quality backup TE that played well in his absence. THe media and only the media suggested the Giants O was better off without him, nobody from the Giants organization uttered those words in fact JR said numerous times he wanted to keep him. He was a good, not great injury proneTE, who thnks way to highly of himself and threw the team I root for under the bus cause of his ego, I’m sorry it’s for me to root for a guy like that.
As i've stated before, we don't know what went on behind the scenes
So i’m not going to offer my opinion on exactly how or if the Giants wronged him. From everything i’ve read and heard, it’s hard to find fault on the Giants. But there is always 2 sides to the story. And i think it’s assuming alot on our parts as 3rd parties who were nowhere near the offices and locker rooms and practice facilities to blindly place blame solely upon anyone’s feet without firsthand account as to the true story. I’d liken some journalists, and journals as hearsay, and hearsay is not admissible for a reason.
+1000
I actually felt good for Drew Brees because he is a hell of a player and I always wondered what the hell the Chargers were thinking in drafting a QB when they already had Brees. But Shockey… Just can’t root for him, kind of like if Tiki came out of retirement and was in the big game, I would have a hard time rooting for him.
by Late for Dinner on Feb 8, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
One last Brees point
I wonder how charger fans feel watching Brees win the SB, knowing that the organization traded away to QB’s who both have won the big one, mean while Philp Rivers still has nothing but individual stats to show for his career.
by Late for Dinner on Feb 8, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Funny thing is
to me it seems like we are way more tame to Tiki, who really threw this organization and staff under the bus. with no prompting, no mikes in his face. yet he seems to never get a mention, or not as much i should say, than number 80. weird….
great point wilddre
I did not jump on Tiki iin 05 like most after he threw TC under the bus. I think Tiki was more respected than Shockey as a leader and considered a smart guy,while Shockey came off as well nuts and not that bright so he took more heat initially. To be honest though I really did not have a problem with either until after they left and made some comments. I just did not like the way Shockey made issues out of none issues to get traded because he was mad the team won without him.
by Landeta on Feb 9, 2010 1:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
didn't come up big?
Lan, he caught THE GAME WINNING TOUCHDOWN yesterday. how is that not coming up big? he caught everything thrown his way, he blocked down the field during some of those runs, and he bought that same passion that each and every one of us used to applaud whenever he caught a pass, and got up and pushed the guy off of him. how can you call that not big?
I defy anyone to find me anything in print where Shockey blatantly says, i have no love for NY, or the Giants. I hated my time there, or i hated my teammates. if anyone can find that, i’ll eat my words. it doesn’t exist. does he say what he feels about certain situations? sure. but who doesn’t? does that means he’s throwing ppl under the bus? i love my girlfriend, but i hate when she doesn’t run water on dirty dishes. and i just told that to all of you. did i throw her under the bus? maybe. does that mean i love her less, or i’m talking ish about her? not in my book.
Thing about it is, we’re(the fans) and the media are the only ones who hate him. his teammates don’t. Strahan was just interviewed about Shockey and said we loved him. His teammates loved him. and that’s coming from the horses mouth. and Stray has no reason to pull punches anymore.
Ownership loved him too. That article that Ed posted up here earlier this week said as much; he continously demanded a trade and they continually said they wanted him and he was the most popular Giant. And he was one of the only players that Mara(i think?) wanted at his bedside before he passed.
So what am i missing here? Am i too loyal? Or are you guys too fickle? Him demanding a trade, who knows why that happened. none of us are behind the scenes. him boycotting the parade, the presidential visit? yeah, that was dissappointing. Shockey is not a choirboy, i agree there is fault there. but now that the break up is done, can we move on w/o jabbing the dude everytime his name is mentioned? doesn’t his legacy here at least owe him that?
It was a two yard screen pass!
He caught 3 passes for 13 yards. My point he’s a piece in what theySaints do they’d be fine without him like the Giants were and he was not woth the headache that he and only he created. And Shockey bad mouthed the Giants organization, not his teamate but the organzation it’s been chronicaled numerous times, I don’t have time right now to look it up casue it was in 2008 but he did it was all over the major New York papers about how pissed he was about not being picked up by the team Charter in Miami and not being flown to Arizona and how he was not informed about the parade, I mean come on everybody in NY NJ and CONN knew the where and when of that parade but Shockey did’nt give me a break. He has taken the high road since comming to NO but he forced a trade. I was able to find this piece from Nola.com and it only took me 5 mins, hell he admits to holding a grudge and he says the Giants crossed him?, give me a freaking break.
BITTER TASTE
Jeremy Shockey holds grudges, he’ll admit.
He doesn’t forget about the people who’ve betrayed him, the general managers, the coaches, the teammates, the media, the friends.
He remembers all of them.
And though he tries to hide his disdain for certain people and certain situations, Shockey can’t always hold back.
“Bitter taste in my mouth” is how Shockey described it. "Things that happened between some people and myself, that bitter taste will always be in my mouth. It’s just something that if you cross me once - it’s hard enough to gain my trust as it is - and if you lie to me and if you say something behind closed doors between that person and myself . . .
“I needed change in my life. I needed change in the situation and scenario I was in because they were making a big deal out of nothing.”
It still eats at him how he departed the Giants, where he at times served as a bombastic emotional barometer for the team.
Giants General Manager Jerry Reese, who verbally sparred with Shockey during the months leading to the trade, is not a favorite of Shockey’s.
It’s upsetting to Shockey that after breaking his leg while playing for the Giants in 2007, he said the team didn’t fly him to Tempe, Ariz., for the Super Bowl.
Instead, he footed the bill. And when he arrived, he wasn’t allowed to stay at the same hotel with his teammates or even watch from the sideline (he viewed the game from the press box).
Shockey said none of this would have happened if former Giants owner Wellington Mara, whom Shockey had developed a bond with, was still living.
“I was very close with the owner, " Shockey said. "He passed, and I was at the funeral. I believe, and I know in my heart, if those guys were there some of this stuff would have never happened. And I would probably still be playing there. But everything happens for a reason. It happened, and I’ve moved on. I know they’ve moved on, and I’ve moved on, and I feel great about the situation.
“I thought I had a successful six years there, and I did some things to help the organization, marketing-wise — I know they made a lot of money off of jersey sales and the things I’ve done for them. Going to the Pro Bowl four out of six years is a very big accomplishment, and I was expecting a little more respect than I was receiving.”
In Shockey’s eyes, he could do no right when it came to the media in New York, who chronicled nearly every move of the breakup between Shockey and the organization.
“If you look back at all the articles ever written and all the hoopla and all the media people, I never really commented, " Shockey said. "They kind of speculated. And that’s the thing I didn’t like.
“It was all this speculation, and people were always writing articles about me, but the guy who the article was about never commented. I just never commented.”
from Nola.com
Again, where is the lambasting of the Giants organization?
i never said Shockey isn’t a vindictive SOB. Im sure he has alot of ill will towards certain members of the staff. who doesn’t, when they leave a job in anything less than amicable? but does he have issues with certain people, or does he call out the Giants?
“Things that happened between some people and myself, that bitter taste will always be in my mouth. It’s just something that if you cross me once – it’s hard enough to gain my trust as it is – and if you lie to me and if you say something behind closed doors between that person and myself . . .”
again, this statement is aimed at certain people, not the organization. he felt someone was being a snake to him. Was he right? or was he off on that? who knows, that info will never be for public consumption.
"I was very close with the owner, " Shockey said. "He passed, and I was at the funeral. I believe, and I know in my heart, if those guys were there some of this stuff would have never happened. And I would probably still be playing there. But everything happens for a reason. It happened, and I’ve moved on. I know they’ve moved on, and I’ve moved on, and I feel great about the situation.
Another statement, in which he actually praised the relationship b/t him and our former owner, and felt the winds of change when he passed. He still wanted to be a Giant, but something in the relationship changed for him. And he’s moved on, but we won’t.
Again, this article points to the fact that Jeremy Shockey had some beefs with some Giant personnel. but at the end of the day, he never utters a bad word about the New York Giants; and he never will because he loved it here, he loved the situation until the situation changed. He was loved by his teammates, he was loved by his owner, but for some reason, the fickle fans won’t remember why we loved him, and let him move on….
No Porter caught the game CLINCHING touchdown
Shockey caught the game winner. The Colts never scored any points that exceeded the points that Shockeys score did. and back to Landeta’s point about it being a 2 yard pass that he caught? Brandon Jacobs 2 seasons ago ran a measly 1 yard TD in against the Panthers in the last game that clinched homefield for us. does that take away from the impact it had in the game for us? do you get more points if it’s a 50 yard catch versus a 2 yard catch?
he caught it. he caught anything thrown his way on Sunday, and he did that on a bad wheel. he wasn’t demonstrative when he caught it, and if Porter’s INT didn’t happen, he would’ve been on NFL films reels for the rest of his life for catching the final TD of the game. On this one, let him have it. he deserves it.
Whining is part of what got him in trouble here.
Luckily he’s not with us anymore. Initially he let his playing do the talking. But, as fate would have it, a little success went to his head. He’s a good player, but like I’ve said before – he went from “tough as nails” to “tough as paper sack” in no time. His time spent nursing injuries outweighs any value he might’ve had. No love loss here and no hurt feelings. Glad the Saints have him!
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
Shockey, that is.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
Maybe he whined when he was here
he hasn’t whined since. all things considered, i’d say he’s done a yoman’s job of avoiding talking bad about the Giants. or talking period.
ever consider that him being so tough as nails out of college turned him into the walking IR that he is now? some correlation there i believe.
I think the Saints are glad they have him too.
for hating a guy so much
you guys sure do talk about shockey on awful lot.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
I thought it was a good game
I guess the last 2 were 2 of the greatest games ever so maybe that’s why this one felt like a let-down to some? No late game heroics by a QB, instead fail by the GOAT QB and an INT TD that seals it?
Good for the Saints, I rooted against them b/c some of their fans got on my nerves…but there’s 98% of their fanbase that are good people and deserved this. Good for Brees, whatever to Shockey. Good for Vilma (one of the only Jets I liked), good for Colston (Hofstra!)
Peyton will get his chances again. If anyone thinks this Colt team was truly a strong one…they missed the fact they have basically a NYG’esque injury problem in their secondary and their missing a few weapons on offense. And Peyton still got them here.
So it may dent his legacy…but only for the time being. I think they’re going in the right direction under Caldwell. They seemed like a tougher team then I usually see them…no 270lbs DT….
Can’t wait till the Manning Bowl this season. Hopefully there’s a part 2 in the beginning of 2011!
Rectum? Damn near killed em!
Stover
was wide left not short – if he made it would anyone be complaining!
It would have still forced the Saints to go for two or a FG at the end forces OT.
I think Peyton lost confidence in Garcon and Collie and went back to Wayne and Clark and the Saints were ready for that.
I have a good firend who has been a Saints fan as long as I have been a Giants fan (28 years) so I am really pleased for him given all the bad times he has had over the years.
by G Fan in England on Feb 8, 2010 9:21 AM EST reply actions
Wet Willie to me
because I thought early in the season the Saints would be the first of the unbeatens to lose (they weren’t) I thought they had feasted on back-up and rookie QBs (well they did, but then they beat Favre and Payton), and their defense was smoke and mirrors (it wasn’t). Rarely have I been so wrong about a championship team, but I was probably a little sore about the way they had whooped the Giants. Congrats to Drew Brees and the Charg… errr, I mean the Saints.
good for my man Big Shock
He’s still that dude that brings the passion on every play, still has the heart that we loved, and now can always lay claim to catching the game winning TD pass in a super bowl. I’m happy for him, Vilma as well.
by wilddre22 on Feb 8, 2010 9:52 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Best post SB moment ever.
Brees holding his son with teary eyes was beautifully caught on TV. It seemed a genuine and unstaged moment even to my otherwise jaded and desensitised mind. Kudos to CBS.
LarryHarryCarlPepper
by gr8kicks on Feb 8, 2010 10:05 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Go Big Easy!
Will the Beck/Limbaugh axis now say the win was a conspiracy to make us feel good for people who we shouldn’t be feeling good about? Far fetched? I wonder….
They’re just jealous cause they can’t handle their liquor
DB
by DukBudr on Feb 8, 2010 10:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
leave the political bs at home
This is a NY Giants football blog. You wanna whine about beck/limbaugh, go to Olbermans blog.
by jerseybillfromva on Feb 10, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
What's going on BBV
I’ve been gone for a couple of weeks and I’ve got a lot of catching up to do. First let me give a kudo to Ed “Godell”, I see that you had to do a little house cleaning last week. Thanks for keeping this site classy.
Kudos to both teams. Well played game with some nice twists and turns. Thanks to Sean Peyton for coaching the Saints as if he’s playing Madden 2010, the guy is fearless and wide open.
Wet Willie to Donovan McRibs. “Colts by 17”….really Donovan, what were you smoking? I was fine with the Colts being favored, but by 17. Maybe he forgot the thrashing the Saints put on them earlier in the year.
Good game by Manning but he probably takes a back seat to Montanna for a while as the greatest qb until he gets another ring.
Bitter sweet to see the season end but I’m ready to get our defense fixed and reclaim that trophy.
I think Donovan ...
just copied the point spread from Super Bowl III.
Pierre Garcon??
If he doesn’t drop that pass, the Colts go up 17-3, and the game is OVER.
And Reggie Wayne deserves a wet willie too for running the laziest slant pattern ever and being a total non-factor.
http://newyorksportsjerk.blogspot.com/
by New York Sports Jerk on Feb 8, 2010 10:25 AM EST reply actions
Good game...
…I just want to see better ball than that Pittsburgh-Seattle snoozer. This one had a good pace. CBS did a great job. Simms and Nantz were very good. Was every replay in slow motion? I’m glad that they actually had replays this game. One of the wild-card game was replayless. Freaked me out. Let the withdrawls begin.
by Last year in Sec 127 on Feb 8, 2010 10:30 AM EST reply actions
The game moved at a very brisk pace
it was almost like the Saints and Colts wanted to get it over with ASAP.
Colts had the ball for almost half the first quarter
very few incompletions for Brees too. Not many punts. The only turnover was a pick 6, so not much time for commercials.
Rectum? Damn near killed em!
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 8, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Was there a game yesterday??
I watch ‘em but I can’t get excited about a Super Bowl without our lads.
I thought that Peyton looked like a choker almost the whole game. Not his usual self. Instead of the calm, business like approach, he seemed like he popped a hemorrhoid right before game time.
Not only the pick six, what about the 3 running plays before the half,leading to an ez Saints FG. That is Tom Coughlin, not Peyton Manning. Seemed like they were playing not to lose, and if you get the accolades as the de-facto offensive coordinator, then you have to get the arrows when you fall flat.
This seems to settle the Peyton – Brady debate.
Peyton threw one bad pass
granted it was a big one and he deserves to be a goat but come on he was throwing the ball great until that throw. He had that brilliant pass to Clark. He converted a buch of third downs if Garcion holds on to that pass in the second quarter that was right on the money maybe they score and it’s a different game. Don’t tell me when Peyton was leading them down the field you did’nt think they were going to score. What had Peyton done that was that horrible up to that point to make you belive hewas going to make a big mistake?
Also
I think you could argue that the int was more Wayne’s fault than Peyton’s. It looked that way watching the game and Steve Young said as much after the game.
Plus, if Hank Baskett comes up with that on-side kick we are probably having a different conversation. Woulda-coulda-shoulda – ha!
Yeh he played pretty well actually
but that pass into the endzone sucked too. The one that was almost picked.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
The Pats went 11-5 without BRady
the Colts would be 7-9 without Peyton, until 07 Brady was never asked to do as much as Peyton in regards to winning games. The Patriots have had more complete teams than the Colts have. The Colts drafted Peyton to be the franchise and built around him. The Pats drafted Brady to be a backup and when he became the starter they asked to not make mistakes and be effiecient but they were building a great team. The Pats got lucky that Brady happened to be a great player. If Peyton had what the pats did in 03 and 04 he would have multiple SB’s.
2001-2010
Brady > Peyton
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Feb 8, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Disagree
Peyton had a better winning percentage than Brady over those years. Brady is 2-1 in super bowls compared to Manning’s 1-1. This debate will be settled in 2025 in Canton, when all the stats are in. Again, in my opinion, Manning has slight edge because he has a higher winning percentage in that time frame.
Brady actually won 3 superbowls
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Feb 8, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
and Manning's one
came against a one-dimensional Bears team at the peak of the NFC’s mediocrity, when he won perhaps the least deserving MVP award in Super Bowl history.
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Feb 8, 2010 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
You can argue it either way I'm not going nuts
Brady is a HELL of a player but I just hate the argument that becasue he won more SB’s he’s better. I mean is Troy Aikman and Jim Plunkett better than Peyton? Is Jeff Hostetler and Doug Williams better than Marino? Brady had a D that won a SB for him in 2001. Brady did not do much more than what Jeff Hostetler did in SB 25 look up the stats if you don’t belive me. Peyton never had that and it was NE’s D that proppeeled them past Indy twice in the playoffs not Brady as much. The one playoff game that was more of a shootout style Peyton won in 06.
Like I said I hate the argument and it amazes me that not only football writers but guys who played football at that level, ie the pregrame guys, make it (maybe just to get ratings). I mean put Peyton Manning on the 04 Pats are you telling me he does not win the SB?
The problem with guys like Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, and John Elway (early in his carrer) is that their talent is so good teams just ask them to win games for them instead of building a great team and overall system because they could win 11 or 12 games just becasue of who their QB is. Montana was a third round pick, Brady a sixth while the the other three were #1’s and two of them were #1 overall don’t you find it wierd that SF and NE built a great team system becuase not as much was expected out of Brady and Montana while Indy, Denver, and Miami got guys that were expected to be great and each of these guys exceeded their great expectations by year 2 thus all of the responsibility was put on them for winning while Joe and Tom stepped into great systems. SF and NE became dynastys well becasue Montana and Brady were a lot better than what was expected. SF and NE still would have been competative without them, probabbly not as successfull, but good I don’t think you can say that about the Broncos, Colts, or Dolphins.
I mean this was the first year the Pats really did not have a good D, how did Tom Brady fair in the playoffs? After the Niners won SB 19 their D slipped how did Joe Montana do against the G-Men in 85 and 86 in the playoffs? Hell Montana stunk it up in 87 too when they loss to Minny, Walsh pulled him for Steve Young in the second half. If anything I think winning the way guys like Peyton, Marino, and Elway (early on) did is more impressive than the SB wins for guys like Montana and BRady becasue those teams were great while the Colts, Dolphins and 80’s Bronco’s were not great teams but competed at a high level. I mean the Niners won a SB 55-10! Marino could not of QBed that team to victory, really?! Maybe not Dave Brown, but I think Marino could of handled it. Look at SB 32, Elway had a great highlight real run but outside of that he played poorley, the Broncos won casue they did not need him too. Terrel Davis and the Broncos O-line dominated that game and the Broncos D forced Favre into a few turnovers. The Broncos became a great team and Elway was a part of it unlike in the 80’s when Elway was team.
well said
Football is a team sport and no one player can ever put the team on his own shoulders and win it all. A sound system where the players believe and put forth the effort required is what it takes to win a Championship. Some luck along the way helps too.
LarryHarryCarlPepper
brady > peyton
Superbowls, 3-1
Overwhelmingly best statistical season: Brady …
Best yards in a season (2007, 4,806)
most 300 yd games in a season
TD passes in a season
Completion percentage is within 1 point of each other, so stats padding can pretty much be written off to more attempts by Manning and Brady’s missing year — which averaged between 2007 and 2009, would give hime around 40 TDs and 4,000 yards…
Statistically, they look pretty similar. That’s why it comes down to rings.
And honestly, the whole Trent Dilfer argument is stupid. We all know these are both great quarterbacks.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Feb 8, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
also
if I had to draft one for next year, I’m taking Peyton because Brady seems to have flaked and gone soft
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Feb 8, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Brady did not flake and go soft
his TEAM is not nearly as good as it’s been and the Colts had a better team so Manning looks far superior. THats my point! NE’s D was not good at all this year and they could not run the ball, they were all Brady and what happened in the playoffs when the only thing they could rely on was Brady? One and done and he looked very average just like Peyton did when his Colt teams meet up with superior teams in playoff games.
I think you proved my point your telling me you like Brady better but when he plays on on average team for the first time in his carreer your saying you’d take Peyton casue Brady did not look as good or as you said gone soft what your really saying (to me at least) is the Colts will be better next year and the Pats are now a bit soft and have some competition in their division.
he might have flaked
I’ve heard him referred to as “an underwear model who plays quarterback”
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Feb 9, 2010 7:36 AM EST up reply actions
I think, right now
Brady=Peyton. I am going to wait until 2025 to re-engage in this debate.
I never brought up Dilfer
but your right it is stupid thats my point it’s absurd to say one individual is better because his team won more SB’s than the other, to me it sounds just as silly even when you compare guys on equal levels like Manning and Brady. Again look what Brady did in the 01 playoffs. He got the tuck rule to go in his favor vs the Raiders, he got knocked out of the championship game and Bledsoe led them to victory and he did not lead one sustain TD drive in the SB and yet the Pats still won the SB. THat was a team win as was the Colts in 06 when Peyton was not great either. My point is just becasue the Pats are a better team than the Colts that does not make Brady better than Manning on that fact alone.
I will say at least you backed up your claim with some statistical facts and are not saying well it’s all about the rings. I don’t think it’s stat padding on Mannings part I think that is he needs to throw for all of those yards and TD’s in order to win while Brady never had to do that until recently and he was one and done in the playoffs too with an average team behind him Peyton has done more with less over the years. Manning has to be great in order for the Colts to win and it’s been like that his entire carrerr, while for Brady it’s only been like that for a about a year or so. For Brady he’s had a great D that always keeps the Pats in games. The Pats D has shut down the Colts twice in the playoffs and the great Rams O, name the great O that any Colts D has shutdown in a playoff game?
Just think of it this way would the Pats not of had won 3 SB’s had Peyton Manning been their QB instead of Tom BRady? Do you really think having Peyton Manning would have hurt their chances?
Brady had a great D
that’s true. what’s also true is that he won three rings with an offense that included Antowain Smith, David Patten, Bethel Johnson, and David Givens.
the notion that Peyton has done more with less is laughable – Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Bob Sanders (when healthy), Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Jeff Saturday, Tarik Glenn and the best pass-blocking offensive line in the league for a decade – he’s not exactly lighting a fire by rubbing two sticks together.
everyone blames the Colts’ D for Manning failures, yet look at what Peyton’s offense has done in their playoff losses:
2002: 0 points
2003: 14 points
2004: 3 points
2005: 18 points
2007: 24 points
2008: 17 points
2009: 17 points
blaming the defense is a common misconception.
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Feb 8, 2010 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"blaming the defense is a common misconception"
Seriously having an average to below average D for your entire carrer that has never ever had a big playoff game vs a top flight O or QB is a misconception of why Peyton Manning and the Colts have not won more SB’s? To me thats the only reason why Peyton does not have more SB’s, he has to score 30 every game for the Colts to win and thats tough to do once you get up against playoff competition. PLease name the great offense that the Colts D has shutdown in a playoff game like the way the Pats have done several times and even the Steelers and Giants did in their runs of late? It sure was’nt this weekend vs the Saints and Brees.
What did TOm BRady and the Pats do this year in the playoffs as a one demensinal team with Randy Moss and without a good D against a team with an average O? The same thing Peytons teams always do. And how did the Pats fair when they were a scroing machine with an average D in 07, they lost the SB. Ever since the Pats have morphed from a great team to a great QB and O they’ve struggled like the Colts have. What did the greast offense in league history do in the SB . . . 14 points and they lost
Yea Peytons O’s have struggled in playoff games but again thats the point if the O struggles the D should pick them up like the Pats D has for Brady and the Colts D has never ever had a big performance against a good O or QB is the playoffs, while the Pats held Warner and the Rams to 17 and forced 3 TO’s and they got the best of the Colts O 2 out of 3 playoff games, Peyton has to score 30 points to win even when they finally did beat the Pats. Tom Brady has won playoff games when the O has sputtered. They beat the Titans 17-14 in 03. In the SB vs the Rams the Pats O was only responsible for 13 points and they were set up by turnovers, I mean name a game in which the Colts could afford to only score 13 points and have only slight over 200 yards and win vs a great O.
You’re right the Colts do have talent, I’m not trying to say that they don’t but they’ve never had a really good D that can take over a game while the Pats have had that. I mean you list those games above but Tom Brady has won playoff games and SB’s when his O has been less than impressive, for Peyton and the Colts the O has to be great to win, to me that is much much tougher to accomplish casue when your in the playoffs your going to face really good D’s and more more balanced teams. I think Peyton get’s killed casue he’s so good and he so much of a reason why the Colts win unlike many QB’s in the leaguethat when his team faces equal or better teams in the playoffs and the Colts don’t win he gets killed. I mean big Ben was terrible in his win vs Seattle and the Steelers still won, can you imagine a game against a team with a good O in which the Colts can win with Peyton playing like that?
Lets look at our Giants this year. Was Eli better in the 09 regular season or in 07 or in 05? I think we know the answer but based on the logic that most people use when comparing Brady to Manning the answer would be 05 casue they won the division and won 11 games but we know thats not true. Same thing holds true when comparing Tom and Peyton one guys has been a big part of a great team while the other is the team. And now Tom is the team for the Pats and they don’t look as good as they used too do they?
Manning's going to take a hit
and he deserves it a butthe same time unlike Montana or Brady (I’m to young to have seen Unitis) he is his team. I mean let’s be fair here Montana and BRady were never asked to do as much as Peyton is they always had very good D’s and some sort of a running game. In Tom Brady’s first SB he did very little. The Pats scored one TD on D, and 10 of their points were off of Rams turnovers deep in Rams territroy. Brady did not deserve that MVP Ty Law or somebody from NE’s D did. Brady played ok vs the Eagles and was great vs the Panthers. I mean in 84 and 89 SF could of played with Kerry Collins and they would of won the SB I mean they outscored their oppents in 3 playoff games in 84 82-26 (included is Dan Marino and his 5,000 + yards and 48 TD passes)and in 89 119 – 24. I mean when the hell has Peyton been on a team that dominate? Montana only needed to be great in one SB vs the Bengals in SB 23 and his O kept squandering scoring opportunities if not it would have been a blowout. I just get annoyed when great players are killed for losing team sports. I know I know Peyton did have a terrible pick yesterday so yea he deserves a hit but man outside of that pick he was throwing the ball great, I mean that one pass to Dallas Clark was awsome he had one horrible throw and outside of that he was great.
Well said.
Completely agree with you here. Peyton had a great game minus one throw. He didn’t get much of an opportunity in the 2nd quarter thanks to his defense. He was on pace for super bowl records until the Indy D decided to start giving up first downs let and right.. Yes, Peyton gets a ‘wet willie’ for the game, but the dude is still the best QB in the game right now. And that is in my opinion, so don’t attack me for the absolute.
Peyton is the best in the game
but the moment may have gotten the best of him during the 4th quarter. He seemed to make incorrect reads late in the game. Maybe the Saints did manage to confuse him or perhaps, he lost confidence in his rookie WR’s. When the Colts were down by 14 with 2 mins to go and 3 TO’s in hand, he drove them down to the Red Zone like everyone expected but had some un-Manning like decisions with time management and hurried throws into coverage. I expect so much from Manning because he plays at a level I have never seen (I never saw Unitas play) during the regular season, but has proven to be human in the biggest moments. I am still a big fan and hope to see him square up against Eli in a Super Bowl someday.
LarryHarryCarlPepper
I wonder
If the loss will make Peyton willing to take less money on a contract extension in order to get more help lol.
Peyton didn't even mention a contract
The owner flat out said he was goin to break the bank. I really don’t think the money matters at all to Peyton. He seems to just work to much to spend it anyways.
Peyton didn't even mention a contract
The owner flat out said he was goin to break the bank. I really don’t think the money matters at all to Peyton. He seems to just work to much to spend it anyways.
you know who takes less to better the team?
Tom Brady
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Feb 9, 2010 7:37 AM EST up reply actions
Is it me or....
did the refs not seem to throw flags for anything? I mean it just seemed like the Saints D could do no wrong. Unless it was blantantly obvious they got away with it.
Also if you read Peter King’s article he states that Payton told the refs he might be trying on onside kick and to look out for it. Is it really fair for a ref to be hearing this? I mean doesn’t it throw them off during kickoffs that this might happen? I just don’t like it.
Also what did you guys think of the 2 point play? I think it was kinda BS since he didn’t control it all the way thru. It’s like that Raider TD all the way back in week one.
I think he did control it.
He broke the plain and was down but then after that the DB kicked the ball out of his hands
by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 8, 2010 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
play over the moment he carries the ball across the plane. He had possession twice, once to break the plane and he also regained control after the bobble. I thought it was a well officiated game. Too bad the NFL only has 6 good officials
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Feb 9, 2010 7:39 AM EST up reply actions
Shockey was one of my favorites
And perhaps Im missing something, sure he was pissed that he was so easily usurped by Boss, but he played his ass off for years here, so I was happy for him, to see him get a ring that he actually participated in
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I don't know about the wet willy for Peyton.
Reggie stopped short in his route, and it was a great play by Porter.
We never should have attempted the 51 yard field goal. Stover’s accuracy ends at about 38 yards, we should have punted.
Hank Baskett muffed the onside kick; I will be giving him a wet willy and doubt to see him on the team next year. In fact, it was the film Payton had of his backing up that gave them the idea to try the onside kick.
Garcon’s drop was probably a momentum changer and the last play for us of the game, Reggie seemed more concerned with not getting clocked than he did catching the ball.
All in all, the Saints played a heck of a game – they were definitely the better team on the field Sunday. Payton’s play calling was brilliant. Caldwell was a tad conservative for my tastes, but I think he’ll learn for next year.
And truth be told, our window was supposed to have been closing this year. We had essentially 2 rookie WRs and 2 rookie CBs for most of the year. What this team accomplished with all of the change and injuires (no Bob Sanders – again) was nothing short of fantastic, imo.
I think Peyton will get another chance at a ring, tbh. And as far as the Brady-P. Manning debate – look how well Brady did with no defense in the playoffs this year. I truly believe those 3 rings should be credited to the Pats’ D those years moreso than Brady. But, then again I am extremely biased.
Is it September yet? ;-)
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
I have to agree with those defending Manning
The route by Wayne on the pick was Manningham-esque, Peyton, to me, threw the ball where it was supposed to go and Wayne didn’t get there. Props to the Saints D fro disguising the coverage and jumping the route. But it’s not like the pass sailed over his head or went behind him. I put that pick on Wayne and the Saints D before I blame Peyton. And let’s not also forget, Wayne dropped a TD on 4th down on their last drive! It hit him right in the hands and he alligator-armed it because he was about to get popped. I can’t believe more people aren’t haring on that play. Granted they still need to recover an onside kick, but if they do they have 30 some seconds and two TO to try and get position for a last shot, and then it’s a completely different game.
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Feb 9, 2010 9:27 PM EST reply actions
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