Daily NFL Draft Prospect Profile: Nate Allen, S, South Florida
by Ed Valentine on Feb 19, 2010 11:00 AM EST
in 2010 NFL Draft
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As we continue our series of NFL Draft Prospect Profiles let's look at a player who seems to be another in what shapes up to be a pretty deep crop of safeties likely to be off the board in the first half of the April draft.
Nate Allen of South Florida. Like Chad Jones of LSU, who we talked about Wednesday, Allen appears to be rising up draft boards.
To be honest, I can't recall ever seeing Allen play. I like a lot of what I read in the reports, though, about both his physical skills and his intangibles.
Let's take a closer look and see if he is a player who might fit with the Giants.
The video below is from back in 2007, but it gives you an idea of Allen's play-making ability.
Nate Allen Scouting Reports
Allen is a 6-foot-2, 206-pound free safety who could be available to the Giants in the second round.
Here is an excellent report on Allen from Draft Countdown.
Excellent range --- Outstanding instincts --- Great hands and ball skills --- Excels in zone coverage --- Technically sound --- Closes fast --- Tough --- Physical --- Reliable tackler --- Great motor --- Smart --- Hard worker --- A lot of experience --- Team leader.
Pure speed is just average --- Struggles when asked to match up with wide outs in man coverage
Classic center fielder who is renowned for his play-making ability --- Possesses solid physical tools and exceptional intangibles --- Leader of the secondary who functions as an extension of the coaching staff --- Profiles as a starter in the NFL.
From NEPatriotsDraft.com.
Allen is a fluid safety that tackles well and deliver big hits. He struggles matched up man-to-man against wide receivers, but excels in zone coverage where his instincts help him make plays. Great work ethic and leadership.
Pros: Fluid, Strength, Tackling
Cons: Speed, Man-to-Man
Verdict: 2nd-4th Round
From Fantasy Football Toolbox.
His strong senior season has silenced some doubters and Allen is one of the best free safeties available in this class. Allen has the size and speed one would expect from a free safety. At 6-2 and 205 pounds, he has the measurables that NFL scouts like to see and his ability to pick off passes and stop the big plays on the ground will make him a valuable player.
SB Nation's Mocking The Draft ranks Allen as the No. 3 free safety in this year's draft class.
Allen has the speed and athleticism to cover a lot of ground in the secondary. Allen doesn't have the best hands, but he can be disruptive when the ball is in the air.
Wes Bunting of the National Football Post ranks Allen ahead of both Earl Thomas and Travis Mays in his evaluation of the free safety draft class.
A well-built safety with good instincts, Allen always seems to play within himself. He takes good angles toward the football in the run game and is a solid wrap-up tackler in the open field. Allen isn't overly explosive and lacks elite range in the secondary, but reads his keys quickly and is always in position to make a play. ...
Diagnoses plays quickly and has the footwork to consistently put himself in position to make a play on the ball. Doesn't make many mistakes and looks like a solid starting safety at the next level.
Why Allen fits with the Giants
A play-making safety? Why wouldn't he fit with the Giants? Did you see any of those on the field for New York after Kenny Phillips went down with his season-ending, and possibly career-changing, knee injury? I didn't. Maybe you would like a little more speed, but he is reputed to be an excellent zone cover guy. And Perry Fewell is supposed to favor zone schemes.
Why the Giants should pass
The speed issue is my main concern with Allen. I will be curious to see how fast he times out at the Combine. And as the draft closes in I will be curious to see if more experts rate him at the top of the safety class.
(E-mail Ed at bigblueview@gmail.com. Follow Big Blue View on Twitter.)
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If speed is the main issue with this guy...
he’s got no issues.
He ain’t gonna light it up…but mid 4.5’s is more then likely his range. I could absolutely care less, he’s not just some chicken with his head chopped off that runs a 4.3 (AHEM! Taylor Mays)
Kinda like Chad Jones…I wonder, will he be there at #46? Or even better..is he worth #15? Right now? I say both can go in the late first and/or before #46..so what to do?
I really don’t care who is on the Giants amoung earl Thomas, Nate Allen or Chad Jones.
Thomas is the best cover guy. Chad Jones is the biggest and can intimidate, Nate Allen does all the above (and none of these 3 don’t do any of the above…even ET)
Its preference and better yet, who’s available.
Trade back PLEASE.
With you, Free
I would love for the Giants to grab any of the three. To be honest, trade back and grab at least one extra pick is fine with me.
by Ed Valentine on Feb 19, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Especially this year
Team needs:
2 safeties not one
MLB
and depth at:
RB, DT, OT
Thats 6 picks, and I discount everything after round 4. So we will get 4 guys and 2 projects to fill 6 holes.
by giantblue63 on Feb 19, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
But we will be drafting rookies
They won’t be able to just come to the team and automatically make an impact (especially in a Tom Coughlin coached team), so we won’t fill all our holes in this draft no matter what happens.
You don’t need every part of your team to play at an all-pro level. We could use another RB, but we can also have a successful season with our current RB’s. Maybe you could say the same for our DT’s if Canty plays like he did in Dallas.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 22, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
+1 for everything but
“…I discount everything after round 4.” There’s some steals down in the bargain basement. Dave Diehl, anyone?
I left my swagger in my other pants.
Thats true
But I don’t think they should plan on getting a starter after 4th round, the odds are too long
stolen thunder
Free I figured hey for once I can get my point accross firs without reading it from you..no such luck…lol If he runs 4.5 or better that plenty fast for me…I like his size and when I watched him play he was always around the ball….this dude is a football player,not to be confused with great athletes that play football ! he has real football instincts and they have allowed him to play at a very high level…if I ran a 4.2 with no instincts well that would be a waste of speed IMO..
Regroup refocus..retool...
This kid is a no-brainer definite pick..I don't care about his speed..
I like the quick reads, moves and angles he makes to the ball..that is how he has overcome his speed issue..and he can deliver bulldozer hits..not great at man coverage but he has the ability to greet the football and the receiver with huge punishing hits..He’s the kinda guy that makes a disruption in a receivers head..after he whacks you once you will always look to see where he is at while running your route, because he’s coming fo get you..He would be a great acquistion for our guys.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Speed isn't an issue until
Maclin, Austin or Jackson fly by a safety.
I don’t think 4.5 is slow, but if he runs a 4.6 or 4.7 is it still not an issue?
4.7 is OK with me...
you know, CC Brown ran a 4.48. Aaron Rouse I think the same.
…if a safeties running 40 yards down field…we’er in trouble anyway.
4.7 would probably be better cuz he’d fall to round 3.
For reals, I don’t think he’s running that. I’ve seen it said that he’s run in the 4.5-4.6 range, and that’s plenty.
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 19, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
I would bet there are equal number of guys that fail on either side of that equation
CC Brown or others failing in spite of speed is not an argument that a slower guy can get it done.
by giantblue63 on Feb 19, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
What?
Here’s a few that can or did get it done.
John Lynch, Brian Dawkins, Adrian Wilson,…plenty more where that list came from.
What matters is the brain and the instincts, not the straight line track speed.
As with CC Brown, its useless if you have no instincts.
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 19, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
not saying I'd rather have a slower player
but if the slower player is a better player…give me the “slower” player.
…cuz the fast player is slow in the brain and slow in actually playing football.
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 19, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
amen to that
we don’t need a guy who runs 2 tenths faster if it takes him half a second to figure out where to go.
Sounds like i was describing CC
He didn’t know where he was going until the ball was in the air. I’m tired of closing my eyes and hoping the S gets to the receiver before the ball does.
Sorry you didn't get it
I’m just saying that I bet at least as many guys fail to make it as DBs because of lack of speed as lack of skill.
Most guys that aren’t fast enough simply fail in camp and pre-season.
If you only consider guys that are either simply very fast or blazing fast then of course it looks like speed isn’t that important.
My original question was at what point does speed become an issue, not we should just draft a fast guy.
Speed at the combine is an overrated thing
the difference between a 4.5 and a 4.7 is only .2 of a second and that is over almost half the length of the football field. Don’t forget that Safeties line up like 15-20 yds behind the line of scrimmage as well.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 19, 2010 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
I would
much rather have a guy that runs in the 4.5s and has good instincts than a guy that runs in the 4.3s (Taylor Mays) that has 0 instinct or coverage ability.
Agreed
Pure athleticism is hardly the only thing that counts. Which is why forming opinions off Combine numbers is dangerous.
by Ed Valentine on Feb 19, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
All I'm saying is
That all the football skills in the world won’t get a safety to catch up with a guy that knows he can run past him.
If the WR and QB know, there is no way that guy can keep up, the reads get really easy and its like playing catch.
At some point, flat out speed matters. It may not make you a football player, but without speed you’ve got a bulls eye on your back.
And if he runs a 4.5 he has speed, maybe not elite, but that is damn fast.
The question is if he runs a slow 40, 4.6 or higher?
by giantblue63 on Feb 19, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
what matters is the cone drill.
His timed speed from 10yds, 20 yds, 30 yds.
what are those times?
What’s his acceleration?
For a S…acceleration >>>> 40 time.
Think Madden. If he’s running a 4.3 but his acceleration is for naught…he’s useless.
But if he’s running a 4.7 but he’s got say..a 99 for acceleration? Give me that anyday.
…of course, if he’s times high at both he’ll be drafted at #15 by the NYG’s.
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 19, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
**times low
low 40, low cone…low 10/20/30 splits
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 19, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
safety
think which ever safety except Mays falls to second round is fine.The safety position is strong this draft first pick has to be an impact linebacker which will make both passrush and secondary play better.
Well..He runs a 4.5..and he gets there quickly because he is extremely smart..
Nobody is going to run by that guy..because they will have grass stains on their ass and the ball will be on the ground rolling around. This kid makes phenominal quick reads and he takes the shortest distance between two points to get to the ball..His instincts are awesome…I only say this because since I live here I been able to see him play a few times..and was very impressed..but I qualify that by saying that a couple of games isn’t the deciding factor, so it is up to the scouts to give him his final grade
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
This is not a bad idea
Say (since everyone loves him), McClain goes #5 overall and Earl Thomas is out of reach, I wouldn’t mind the Giants going down 5 to 6 spots to pick up an extra second round pick. Hell, why stop there? Maybe the Giants can move down 6 spots again and get an extra 3rd (lol). Anyway, after we move down, we can get one of these under-the-radar safeties like Nate Allen or Chad Jones. Guys like Sean Lee (whom was a projected 1st round pick before knee surgery) or some other linebackers can easily be found with our other 2 second round picks.
The thing I love most about this draft is that there is no lose-lose situation. Every safety in this draft can start for any team.
Thats good to hear....as long as he ends up a Giant
If you’re a safety that has good instincts and take good angles you are going to be a productive player regardless of 40 time.
Exactly right..He is really really good from what I have seen..
I am not like Freebradshaw..That guy God Bless him knows about kids playing pee-wee football..I only have about a half dozen picks on my wish-list and Allen is one of them..I blame that on my up-bringing..I equate it to the Sears Catalog that when I was a kid, came in the mail before Christmas…and I would circle about 1000 toys and things in it and hand it over to my parents…On Christmas day…I’d be fortunate to have a half dozen of my choices under the tree, hence I think that is why I narrow my NFL picks down to a handful and Allen is on my list..Also after reading that interview with Goff, I rescind my hopes that our guys go after Dansby..that Goff kid with another camp under his belt seems like he is going to be a good MLB for us. I like his comments and humbleness..An animal on the field and a humble honest kid off of it..Sound familiar?…I’ll give ya’ll a hint..Harry Carson.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
I used to do the same with my Sears catalog :)
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 19, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
LOL!! yes I bet alot of us did back then..the Sears Catalog was like treasure back then.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Not to mention that it was "required reading"....
In many a poor household’s outhouse of yore.
Haha!!
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Tell me...
Where did that crazy quote come from?
by Great Gatsby on Feb 19, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
From growing up in a VERY poor family in rural Vermont....
We didn’t have electricity nor running water in my father’s house, and it wasn’t an uncommon situation for the rural poor back then. I remember when I was in elementary school Life Maginzine had a front page story “Look out world, here comes Granby” when Granby and Victory Vermont were finally getting electriciy in the early 1960’s.
Hmmm
Interesting story. I have only seen a little bit of Vermont and I live in Mass. I would like to find time to play golf up there, I haven’t been that far north up there either.
by Great Gatsby on Feb 19, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Vermont is a beautiful place..
When I was eighteen me and 12 others used to rent a house in Killington in the Winter for three months for Skiing..I tied many a load on at a place called the Wobbly Barn..It may still be there I don’t know..What I do know is if the temperature goes below 60 these days I start to break up..It is 63 down here right now and I have a sweatshirt and jacket on..Back then they would give you a blanket when the temps hit below 0..and when you reached the top the blankets were like solid pieces of frozen cardboard that they would lean up against the side of the lift shack..I could never do that now.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Remember, in Vermont....
At -30 degrees in Feburary, the Girl Scouts are still selling cookies door to door!
Wobbly barn!!
i was there last month.. great place!
Is it baseball season yet??
by Plaxico Burress on Feb 19, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Well I'll be daggoned..I used to love that place..
I’m happy to hear that it is still there..Man that place was a “chick-magnet” back in my days..I could say something about that place that Ed and Co. would consider too raw or crude soooo, I’ll make every attempt to refrain from saying it..but Ed knows me by now so I won’t guarantee that I won’t say it..
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
haha that place is certainly a chick magnet
one lucky lady that i met there and I got to know each other very well that night lol.. super fun place
Is it baseball season yet??
by Plaxico Burress on Feb 19, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Okay I give up..Sorry Ed I have to say it..lol!!
My most famous pick-up line that worked everytime at the Wobbly Barn..was: “Come back to my Chalet with me and spread your legs..We’ll talk about it tommorrow”…
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is it baseball season yet??
by Plaxico Burress on Feb 19, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
wobbly barn is still there
and expensive as hell. was there 2 weeks ago paid $90+ for two meals and a few drinks. great food though.
"Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Conway Twitty."
by Mother Tucker on Feb 19, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Damn..that's way more expensive than it was back when I
Would frequent there..haha..Fact is if I walked in that joint tommorrow , the patrons would think the ‘ol fart uncle of the ’ol fart owner just walked in to say hello..the only way I would have .0001% of a chance to pick up a chick nowadays is if I rented a ’cherry-picker’ from the local Rent’all place..This is no lie..Nowadays my wife has a rolled up Treasure Coast newspaper to whack me in the back of the head with to keep me under control..I have progressed from my famous pick up line..to Whack!!..“Get upstairs and knock it off!!”..“Yes Dear”..haha..and she makes a new one every week..I’m not sure whether she wears them out on my head or wants to make sure I keep up with current events…
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Outhouses..thats what my Grandparents had until..
One day my Grandfather came walking home with a big old cast-iron tub that he got from somebody and carried it on his back for about a mile and a half..then he went back and got the toilet and sink..that was their first official indoor bathroom..I was just an infant back then..So my Dad told me about it later on in life..but I did a home improvement job to upgrade a bathroom for some folks that had that cast iron stuff..and thinking back I don’t know how that man carried those things so far..unbelievable..I had all I could do to move one about forty feet..and the funny thing as the story goes, he didn’t rest at all..He went right back after the toilet and sink…but they finally had a bathroom.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
necessity serves as a good motivator!
Vermont is a beautiful place (except in winter), and even then it’s pretty as all getout, but it’s also stark and hostile and bleak. And each day the weather forecast is cold and grey with snow, today, tomorrow and seemingly until May. The other seasons are sublime however. But the “Vermont that was” is no more, there’s more people from “away” than natives now, and the only place where any of it once was is in the Northeast Kingdrom (extreme Northeast part of the state), which quite frankly, hasn’t much noticed our current economic difficulties, as the place never recovered from the Great Depression, but has just adapted to a simpler lifestyle. Just to keep this semi-on-topic, the Giants, back in the day, before Albany, and Pace University, used to train at St. Michael’s College in Vermont back in the days when safeties were people like Jimmy Patton (#20) and I believe Erich Barnes (#41?). The players kind of stood out if they ventured into town. Anyway, since they practiced nearby, and you’d occasionaly run into them, that’s probably why I became a Giants fan, and not the typical New England fan.
That is a nice memory..I am a bit
Feeling sorry that the locals have been replaced by out-of towners…that is one of the reasons we decided to start moving South..the furthest I ever went in Vermont was Lyndonvillle (spelling suspect)..It is right near the Canadian border..I used to chase blizzards to ski..We drove through a horrendous blizzard to get there..To this day I can’t figure out when/how we finally made it there my fan-belt was sitting on the passenger seat the next day..Plus I got so sick over making sure my two buddies got there safe that I couldn’t ski until Sunday afternoon..Even then I felt like crap..then we had to drive all the way back to NY..I’ve done some nutty shit in my life but that one trip is on my top 10 list of idiotic episodes..It took us three hours to get up a hill to the college dorm of a friend we stayed with and two nice guys in a Jeep towed us up there..When I walked into his dorm room I just laid down sick to my stomach….I was driving a little Vega GT that night and really thought we were going to be goners.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Allen
I know that a lot of us here, myself included, have been lobbying for this guy for some time now. In my opinion, he is the best fit for the Giants. His main weakness is that he can struggle to match up in man-to-man situations, but the only time we ask that of our safeties is against tight ends who will be slower than Allen anyway. Imagine two Kenny Phillips free to roam the defensive backfield?
Allen and Phillips can be the new AP.
This guy isn't Dunlap....
No motor or motivation problems. He’s fast enough (hey, if he was a track wiz, he’d be first on Oakland’s draft board), is smart and fills a position of need. I think it was Earl Weaver who said regarding the “pro level” , “The two things I can’t teach at this point are speed and intellegence”, and I think Allen is adequate in both. I’d love to see him there for the Giant’s natual #2 pick, but unless there’s someone super exciting on the board at #15, I agree that trading back for an extra pick and getting this guy and a bonus pick wouldn’t be a bad deal.
Rolle?
I know Rolle is not projected to go this high, but I listened to the kid a few times, very articulate and very mature for his age, what round is he projected to go, 3rd RD?
I had Rolle on my little list but scratched him off because I don't see him being on the board
For long..but you never know..the draft feeding frenzie is less than 9 weeks away and anything can and will happen, but yes he would be another good one.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
If..
If they take this kid in Rd 2, or Rd 3, I still want KP at free safety, not another youngster.
My personal feeling, not a great believer in having 2 youngsters starting at safety
(KP is like a redshirt sophmore, if you want to make a college analogy).
Who else do we trust alongside KP?
Michael Johnson?
C.C. Brown?
Aaron Rouse?
Aaron Ross? (not even a true safety)
Lets be serious!!!!!
I’ll take Nate Allen, Earl Thomas or Chad Jones as a STARTER over any one of the above guys. Look what Fewell did with the “youngster” rookie Byrd last season at safety…tied for the most picks in the league!
Now it’s another thing if you’re saying a good FA instead of a rook would be better than anyone on our roster, but it sounds like you’re just saying you’d rather have KP and someone on our current roster at safety, which is rediculous.
15 is a good number
by I_Formation27 on Feb 19, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Personally I see the situation being like that in 2008, where the rook
is the depth and someone else starts like with KP. James Butler and Mike Johnsons were the starters.
I’m thinking Fewell can make Johnson back into that player he was back in 2007-08.
I think its not impossible for the rook to start, just like with KP it probably should’ve started out that way.
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 19, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Well I think Allen could have a pretty close to an immediate impact..
But I agree for the most part that rookies are not going to start..although I would argue in certain cases that they can play a serious role..Nicks should have been in there sooner and Barden?..He should have been in there too not the last damn game..After they went off on a losing streak I would have liked to see certain players getting some game experience.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
it always seems a Giants rookie gets hurt in year one doesn't it?
I know that’s why Nicks and Sintim didn’t play early on. KP pretty sure too.
Can’t these friggin guys make it out of camp healthy?
What are they doing in camp that there’s always casualties?
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 19, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
That is a very good question..Everybody, we and more importantly
Our team expected to have guys play key roles and they got hurt..and most of the injuries were hamstrings..something is wrong here..Boley and Canty were never injured and they arrive here and get hurt..Ross?..I can’t believe these hamstring injuries take that long to heal..and they are easy to avoid in the first place. I’m sure alot of you guys have had them, I know I have..they don’t take long to heal but you can’t play when you have them..and I didn’t have trainers working with me..So why is it taking them so long to fix that shit?..I’ll just say that they need to srutinize the training staff..If I way back when could recover from a Hammy in 4 weeks on my own than I have a serious concern about an athlete that has a whole staff of trainers around him can’t..I don’t care how big you are it is a hamstring pull, and it can’t possibly keep you out for that long.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
ive said it before and ill say it again
yoga! get these guys on a serious flexibility program aka yoga.. dont need all the meditation and stuff that goes with yoga, but they should absolutly be implementing some kind of insane flexibility regiment
Is it baseball season yet??
by Plaxico Burress on Feb 19, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
I have read that rookies got injured in camp a lot
Because they press to make an impression, and the punishment is more grueling than anything they have experienced.
On day 3, or day 4 the hammies and other areas are too tight and they are afraid to say anything about it (given the tough guy culture)
You can blame the coaches a bit, they should slow the rooks down a bit (give ’em fewer reps till week 2)
especially Coughlin
It feels like he has one of the toughest training camps in the league
by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 20, 2010 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
NOPE!!!
Not impossible at all, rookies not starting are coaching preferences alot of the time not because they are not capable…..fewell like to play rookies ask jarius byrd who led league in picks. KP couldve started his rookie year but Dave Merrit is a really strict safety coach KP couldnt move off the has mark because merrit wouldnt let him and TC is the same way with rookies he doesnt like to start em. I think fewell however likes rookies that can make an impact from day 1
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
Personally
We need an in the box safety who can cover as well but if we take some of these safeties like thomas they will have to play free and KP would be the strong and to me thats counter productive so i would take rolle or kam chancelor in a later round. i think rolle will be special he has all the necessary intangibles and is a bigger kid.
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
well we have Aaron Rouse
Kam Chancellor’s no better then him out of Va Tech.
Maybe Rouse gets a chance?
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 19, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
I have no idea what Chancellor's upside is
Only one season at safety, but has played QB and other places.
I still think that the guys from the practice squad may open some eyes. That is my hope for maybe only needing one safety.
Rolle
I was a big Rolle fan when he was going to FSU, but he was a little disappointing at FSU. He doesn’t play that fast and doesn’t take the best angles.
He would be a good selection in Round 3 or 4, but not before then IMO.
KP played SS in college and Randy Phillips played FS. KP is better suited for SS anyway. His strength is in hitting people. Even though he picked off 2 passes against Dallas last year (one a lucky bounce and the other Romo through right to him), his ball skills and coverage skills are not elite. Thomas would be great because he is a great FS and KP could go back to his more natural SS position.
Thats fine
Rouse didnt play bad at all, he came in picked up a new system and played better than johnson, he is fine another yr should make him better but im warning everyone we have used a high pick on safeties and d linemen already we owe it to the LB corps to bring in some guys with major upside like back in the day! who wouldve ever thought the giants would be lacking line backers!!!
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
I disagree that Rouse did fine
When comparing him to CC Brown, yes he was fine.
When comparing him to how a starting safety in the NFL should play, he was not fine.
In Billl Sheridan’s system nobody played fine.
I think that Rouse at least deserves a shot in training camp
by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 20, 2010 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
I'm fine with giving him a shot
But I would not say that he played well last year.
A lot of these guys that played so poorly last year will have to get a shot out of sheer necessity.
Allen fills that bill Blue..and yes Rolle would be a good pick..but I think Allen has
Better leadership skills..I wouldn’t mind having him back there at all…I know we are talking safety prospects here, but I’ll maintain that we need a solid middle D-line..that is where a disaster starts..We can’t afford having QBs winging it unpressured downfield..A secondary should be the last resort not the first..They need to be more balanced and last year they were not at all balanced..Now I’ll get back to the injuries..we lost too many guys to injuries that are avoidable..they need to focus on that..You can’t play football with a torn hamstring..Tuck got leg whipped and hurt his shoulder but still managed to play his heart out (thanks Flozell)..but these hamstring injuries and lack of recovery is really concerning.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Very True
Conditioning injuries are dis heartening Bobbi, and your absolutely right about the middle D line, im fine with a DT or MLB but S in the first round doesnt matter if we cant get pressure for sure. I have never really seen the Allen kid but ill take your word for it, Motivation was also an issue i cant tell you how many times i saw us go dwn by 7 points but the looks on the players faces were as if we were dwn by 40, and not once did i see a coach get in any ones face everyone just let it happen game after game and that is something TC will have to adjust……… we needed the old TC last year LMAO
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
This is the type of safety we really need
All of our corners are press-man coverage guys (as opposed to w/e the hell Asante Samuel calls what he does on the field), so we can afford (need?) to have the kind of ballhawking center fielder (like Darren Sharper or Ed Reed) we lost when KP went out. IMO we have to assume that KP’s not coming back as the same player he was before.
We don’t necessarily need blazers IF we can get in the QB’s face. I’m praying to the defensive line gods for the next couple months, cause that’s the only thing that has a chance of improving the d-line. There are no good FA DT’s and rookies (other than Kevin Williams) need a year or 2 to adjust.
Allen has been the #1 safety on my board from day 1
I’m not as concerned with man coverage issues with him, nor am I as concerned with straight ahead speed. Man coverage can be coached up, instincts can’t. I also don’t even want to consider one of our safeties having to chase a receiver down that got by them. We already had a couple of those types of players on last years roster. This kid plays very, very fast. Quickness semms to be the catch phrase of the day. He seems to never be out of position and you see him near the ball most of the time on the film I’ve seen.
I agree that he would be better off to not be thrown right into the fire. We should grab George Wilson in free agency(I’ve actually heard that is the plan) and grab this kid to groom for eventual starter. Our dime package could feature 3 CB 3 S, which is the mix I prefer.
Just a note: 4.5 speed is very good for a FS and I hope he runs no faster than that at the combine or we won’t have a shot at him in the @nd round.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Your right with this kid..He is on my wish list..and has also been my number one
Safety prospect..but he could possibly be a quicker impact player on the field next year..He is one of a few players that I think could get on the field quicker and make a difference..I hope he slows down at the combine and runs a 6.0 so we can grab him..We need somebody to tie his shoes together or something.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Pay my flight and hotel to Indy
and a ticket to the combine and I’ll bring my blow dart gun with me. A little marine toad toxin and he’ll feel like he has the flu and drag his azz in the 40.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Well yeah I think he'll be gone..but to be honest I don't really have any decent knowledge of him
However they are thinking he’ll go high in the draft..but we have all seen those “busts” before.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
I could also set McClain up with a transvestite hooker and....
… we’ll be flayed in the press for taking him at #15. “What were the Giants thinking?”
Bleeding Blue since 1962
LOL!!..Just have him consut with Tiger Woods
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
This guy is not a first round pick.
Absolutely not at 15. Slow and not great in man coverage is not what the Giants need. There are a lot of good TEs in the east and safety that can’t cover is a liability.
Wilba..this kid can cover any TE with ease..
And we don’t need a safety man on man with a wideout but he will deliver a very nasty hit when called upon..This kid hits people and he gets to them very quickly..again from what I have seen of him. There is nothing worse in a recievers mind than watching out for a guy that is looking to blast you doesn’t have anything with speed if he gets there he is going to hurt you, then your screwed up for the rest of the game..A guy like Allen will play on a recievers mind when running their routes..He is a destroyer…
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Nobody was saying....
…to pick this kid in the first round and “sometimes struggles in man coverage” is not “can’t cover” and nobody said he was slow, just maybe not a blazer.
Watching the tape of him, he is always around the ball and has great lateral speed, fluid hips and is a sound tackler and ball hawk. I’d say he’s better than anyone on our roster at the position, save KP.
Definitely a sound pick at #46. We’ll have to wait until 3/5 to know if we’re still in the market for any of the players we’re all drooling over.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
By the time the 47th pick is called there needs to be another safety on this roster
doesn’t matter if its this guy or chad jones, morgan burnett….. doesn’t matter which of these 3 men but one of them needs to have ny on the side of his helmet in 2010
by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 19, 2010 9:33 PM EST reply actions
It could be G Wilson
and a deeper look at what we already have on our roster and taxi squad. I’d be ok with that. Sha’reff Rashad has potential and needed some time to make the adjustment to the NFL. This might give us the freedom to be more flexible by getting a reasonably priced veteran to help coach up the rooks. There are still some pretty attractive players who will be available in the 3rd-5th rounds.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Ok, Bobbiblue
I was just restating what the scouting reports said. The fact that they say man coverage is his weakness scares me but I don’t watch a lot of college ball so I don’t personally know him. I agree that a tough, physical safety can impact a WR all game long. I remember Andre Reed having alligator arms in the super bowl after getting blasted a few times.
he's a safety...
Safeties aren’t always lined up with man coverage. And Kenny Phillips is actually pretty good at that anyway, as is (supposedly) Mike Boley.
Also, Fewell likes to use his safeties in zone coverage, so since the scout report actually says he’s better in zone…..makes Nasty Nate an ideal pick.
If this was a CB…man coverage would be a concern.
For a safety? Someone who’s supposed to be reading and reacting anyway? Allen’s skill set is perfect for the type of safety the Giants want.
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 20, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
I know that we're going on the premise that KP won't be ready
but let’s say that he is. Let’s say that after all the junk the Giants went through in 2009, they get a karmic break in 2010 and Phillips is A-OK. If the Giants draft Earl Thomas or Nate Allen, they’re drafting a FS. That’s Phillips’ position. Would they switch Phillips to SS and have the draft pick be the new FS? Would it not matter in the Tampa-2 scheme?
I ask because Phillips likes to play FS. He enjoys the freedom it gives him to make plays and cause turnovers. That freedom is what hampered him as a rookie and what excited him as a 2nd-year player. He’s a team guy but I doubt he’d like switching positions.
I don't know what exactly they're doing with the safeties...
but the way I see KP is that he can do both, he’s versatile. Nate Allen seems like a KP clone, so maybe he can too?
Versatility with your starting safeties? Adds to the confusion for the offense, which is a good thing for the Giants.
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 20, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
In that scenario they go for Nate Allen
While he’s not the ballhawk that Thomas is, he’s built to be a better SS than Thomas. I’m always reading about Coughlin liking versatile players. Nate Allen is the choice for the Giants then.
Freedom
I doubt anybody is getting real ‘freedom’ in a Perry Fewell defense. His rep is that he wants guys to play their assignments, not freelance, which KP likes to do. That is something to watch if KP is healthy.
by Ed Valentine on Feb 20, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Curious discovery
I just found something curious in the 2009 Buffalo Bills’ secondary depth chart. The two 5’10" safeties were the SS and the two 6’0+ safeties were the FS. That could bode well for the Earl Thomas pick, if Fewell is not adverse to smaller guys playing SS.
KP is listed as the SS
Then again, the Giants under Spags and Sheridan have sort of used the FS and SS interchangeably. I’m sure Fewell will let KP run wild in the secondary once the two are comfortable with how they play/coach. But I don’t think this precludes the Giants from taking a guy like Thomas at #15. If they can’t/don’t get Thomas, then Allen sounds like the next best guy for them IMO. I do like his intangibles as a leader and hard worker (I’m sure Coughlin would love that), and I like that he’s had a lot of starting experience as compared to Chad Jones.
"The good teams don't come in and say 'could have'. They get it done. Alright? It's that simple."
That is a mistake
KP was switched to FS and Johnson to SS at the beginning of the ’09 preseason/camp. If he is listed at SS it is a mistake.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
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