Giants Off-season
by ny12giants92 on Feb 18, 2010 4:09 PM EST
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PrintThere are some ludicrous suggestions about what the G-men are going to do this off-season. Tell me when was the last time the Giants signed a BIG name player? Chris Canty? I hardly think so. Sam Madison? An aging corner. Antonio and Plaxico are the first two that come to mind, otherwise, they don't try to sign high-profile players.
So why is it suggested that the Giants might go after Joey Porter or Richard Seymour? I think it's good for them to go after Dansby, but that is not as big an acquisition as Porter or Seymour. But its insane to see that reporters and fans think that the Giants should give up a 1st and 3rd for Houston LB Ryans.
I think they'll sign Dansby and try to draft the BPA in the draft because there is nothing wildly attractive at 15. We don't need a DE despite how great it is to have another pass-rushing DE. We have Tuck and Osi there and Kiwi is unhappy, rightfully so, to be sitting and Osi doesn't want to sit.
What do you think?
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I'll put it in order of...
1) Dansby
2) Dratfed DE
3) Spiller
4) Seymour
DNQ) Porter.
I just leave Joey Porter as completely irrelevant to the Giants.
Dansby if he can play MLB will be signed as soon as possible…will not be on the team if they don’t think so. We know he’s interested at least.
Drafting a DE is a good idea, its all about getting to the QB. WHEN? Who knows. I wouldn’t doubt they get at least one at some-point, and that definitely includes round one
Spiller’s a possibility. For all the reasons I care not to get into
Seyour probably no. If my March 5th he’s a UFA, then I’d love to spend the money on him instead of Dansby (both would be OK)
I AM SOFA KING!!!
-Wei Todd Ed
We have Tuck, Kiwi, and Osi
When you consider we have gaping holes at MLB, DT, and S, and also that we may need to draft someone for the OL, drafting a defensive end anywhere before the fourth round would just be dumb.
you think its dumb...cuz you can't see the logic in it....
This isn’t just about 2010…its about 2011 and beyond.
What if Osi is just let go next year? What if they don’t re-up Kiwi?
What if they don’t care because they have 2 DE’s who are equally adept at rushing the passer and stoping the run?
Its all about that pass rush on passing downs…cuz that’s was reason #1 they sucked…
Kiwi-Tuck-Morgan-Osi
Pass rush.
AND…those 2 in the middle can stop teh run if need be too.
I AM SOFA KING!!!
-Wei Todd Ed
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 18, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
No, the #1 reason they sucked was pass COVERAGE
After Kenny went down, they couldn’t cover a damn thing.
I will vomit if I ever see C.C Brown or Aaron Rouse on the field as Giants again.
They clearly need a S, especially with Phillips health.
Then you look at DT.
Robbins is getting up there in age and declining, Bernard will be released, Canty and Cofield were terrible last year, and who knows what will happen with Alford.
Need.
Then you look at the O-line, which is aging and declining for the most part, need.
Heck, even RB is a bigger concern with Jacobs’ performance in 2009 and Bradshaw’s durability issues.
I’m sorry, but along with WR, defensive end is the LAST thing we need at this point.
Who's talking about need?
I’m talking about best player available in the draft
I AM SOFA KING!!!
-Wei Todd Ed
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 18, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
OK so its not the pass rush
Then how come Gibril Wilson and James Butler the star safeties on the 2007 team haven’t exactly torn it up elsewhere?
Because its the pass rush.
We had 10 less sacks than last year
That’s a drop off, but not an enormous one.
You know what is?
The fact that the completion percentage against our defense went from 58.1% to 63.1% , the fact that the Y/A against our defense went from 6.8 to 7.4, and the fact that we allowed 31 passing TDs, compared to 17 in 2008
The pass rush was a problem, but our pass coverage was the real problem last year and that’s undeniable.
Yea....
tell me the completion % didn’t go up cuz QB’s could sit in the pocket and eat Thanksgiving dinner back there. Turkey and side dishes.
They had time to eat everything. Even wash their hands, put the kids to bed. I know McNabb even had time to fix himself a late night snack and send it to Desean Jackson.
There’s a reason why simply total sack number doesn’t tell you the whole story, and the 2009 Giants are a prime example. Osi had a not so bad 7 sacks…but I don’t think many Giants fans who sat through this whole season would say that they “thought it was more then that”.
I thought he had about 2 sacks.
Pass rush was definitely a problem last year.
The safeties sucked..yes. I’ve been saying it since KP went down, that safety is the Giants main need in the offseason. That doesn’t mean you reach by an entire round on a safety if you can get one in round 2.
I AM SOFA KING!!!
-Wei Todd Ed
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 18, 2010 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
Pass rush = easier job for the corners and safeties.
Yes..if the secondary can cover, it can also give the pass rushers a ‘coverage sack’.
Coverage sacks are extremely rare.
But incomplete passes caused by a QB having to make a decision before he wants to is not and probably the biggest reason the Giants won the SB in 2007 and were a top 5 defense in 2008.
I AM SOFA KING!!!
-Wei Todd Ed
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 18, 2010 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
agree..but
taking a DE with the 15th pick wouldn’t solve the big holes in this defense (safety, MLB, and DT). The Giants should take the best player available that fills a need, and if they dont see any player worth it at #15, then they should trade down.
agree..
I’ve always been in favor of trading down.
…its not so easy tho. I’m sure a team would be OK to just swap first round picks, but what are the Giants getting out of it?
If they stay put…I’m definitely not in favor of drafting based on need. They’re drafting too high for that. Why reach for a safety or a MLB if they aren’t worth the #15?
No where will I say to draft a DE just to draft one. But if you can get an All-Pro at DE and merely just a starter at S or MLB…your cheating yourself if you just draft based on need.
Getting after the QB is a need. DT or DE helps that.
I AM SOFA KING!!!
-Wei Todd Ed
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 18, 2010 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
covering receivers to give the pass rush more time to get there is also a need
So is stopping the run and defending against short passes.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 18, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
as is winning games and scoring more points and stopping the other team from scoring more points.
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 18, 2010 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
I'll take my chances with a defense that gets to the QB
Shakes him up, gets the clock in his head ticking a bit faster
That is job 1 on defense in the NFL
- Number of sacks is an almost meaningless stat.
- Defensive Passer Rating is a bit better
- What you need to know is can a team get to a QB if they have to.
Last season you only need to review the close games to know the answer:
AZ – could do nothing to disrupt Warner’s rhythm at end of first half
SD – could do nothing to rattle Rivers (a low end thinker who makes awful decisions when rattled)
Philly game 2 – McNabb felt no pressure, ZERO
those 3 games were the difference between 11-5 and 8-8. If the pass rush was there they make the playoffs and no one talks about the sky falling.
Just to be clear
I am not saying that S or MLB aren’t needs, or that they shouldn’t be addressed in the draft, but the best way to improve the team is to get the BPA.
If its a DE, so be it.
by giantblue63 on Feb 19, 2010 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
You can get to the QB with pressure from the DT or LB blitz though
by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 19, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
obviously theres no point
if they just swap first round picks. the only way they would trade down is if they got some more picks out of it.
well i mean if earl thomas or even better mclain (by some miracle) is there im sure you would agree that the giants should take one of them
I just don’t see the room for a DE on this roster..kiwi tuck and osi are good DEs who underperformed last year.
by ddhamaka814 on Feb 18, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
sigh.....
its not about Kiwi, Osi and Tuck.
Drafting is not about an immediate impact either.
And I’m not talking about an Osi or Kiwi type DE, I’m talking about a Derrick Morgan type DE someone who’s played all over the line and could line up as a pass rusher.
What if Osi’s gone after next year? Kiwi?
If Morgan is the BPA at #15, it makes sense.
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 18, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
i think
we should agree to disagree..but in what order do you rank these players based on the Giants needs: mclain, earl thomas, morgan, dunlap, and spiller
by ddhamaka814 on Feb 18, 2010 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
on needs?
McClain, Thomas, Morgan, Spiller (not even ranking Dunlap).
…based on best player available…and the fact that a safety comparable to Thomas may be avaiable in round 2, and also added that McClain’s probably not on the board at #15
…its Morgan vs. Spiller. That’s up to JR.
I go with Spiller.
But is he gonna do that?
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 18, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
FB we want to know what you think about it not who JR thinks is bpa or who JR wants to draft.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 19, 2010 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Actually...no disrespect to my man free
But I would give my left um…kidney to know where JR stood right now
sure
but does fb really have to wonder what JR will do in every post about the draft? I’d rather read what he thinks about Morgan vs Spiller or McClain vs Price or Nate Allen vs Myron Rolle or whoever else it is
by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 19, 2010 1:50 AM EST up reply actions
FB you cant just randomly put DE's at DT and expect them to work
if it was that easy everyone would do it.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 18, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
who's doing it randomly?
Morgan and Dunlap actually have done such a thing at points in their career.
I AM SOFA KING!!!
-Wei Todd Ed
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 18, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see
The Giants taking any of those players you mentioned. Unless “he can play MLB” like Free said. Seems as though ppl are forgetting we have Boley (who missed games due to injury) and Sintim who only played part-time. They are a decent duo of outside LB’s, we just need to fill that MLB spot whether its Goff, FA, or a draft pick. Sintim may have not proved his worth yet but I think we’ll learn a lot about him next season.
15 is a good number
Would you send the Giants #1 and their #3 to Jags for the 10th pick
you might have to throw in the 5th rounder too.
Thats what would get it done.
LBs
Sintim at SAM
Dansby or draft pick at MIKE
Boley at WILL
Backups would be Kehl, Goff and Blackburn
I know I know – TC does not even like to play rookies much less in a position where they quarterback the D.
McClain might make him change his thoughts.
BPA
Hppe we pick up Dansbury in FA . Draft BPA AT #15. Imo it is CJ SPILLER. Then draft
BPA on Defence 2 though 7
Spiller isn't BPA
if he cant run between the tackles
He would be Reggie Bush without the power
by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 18, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
what if he can run between teh tackles?
I AM SOFA KING!!!
-Wei Todd Ed
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 18, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
then he would be pretty good
especially if he is there when we trade back
by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 18, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
I hope the phins sign dansby so mcclain has a better shot to fall to us
by MIKES92 on Feb 18, 2010 5:50 PM EST via mobile reply actions
And it makes more sense
Dansby would fit fit right into Porters old spot, and they wouldn’t be over drafting a MLB.
And I think that Dez Bryant has a good chance to go to Bronco’s. Marshall is a nut case from the word go. They could trade him with Bryant on board. Or perhaps Spiller, based on what Pats got out of Faulk, I’d think Spiller would be well used by McDaniels.
hmm..
i dont know if we should even bother with dansby…hes younger than pierce but dansby isn’tall that younger,an he isn’t a long term solution. i think drafting mcclain or spikes, and letting them grow into the system works the most
Honestly the best bet is to sire up the backers and secondary. How many times last season have we seen the line just miss a sack only to see the pass completed to and open receiver or tight end. We know dansby can play coverage that would be a perfect fit and then the number one pick could be dedicated to getting a guy like Thomas or price. We could afford to give time to develop a dt so Seymour would be a move even if we were going to use him in a 3-4.
Sign dansby
Williams or price in the first
jones* or rolle* in the second
*I have a really both of those guys are gonna be drafted higher than they are ranked
by Dfence on Feb 18, 2010 10:10 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Btw
Porter could be a leader in the locker room bit he could also become disgruntled very quickly. We want to avoid those player.
by Dfence on Feb 18, 2010 10:14 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Dansby
would simply be the best LB on the team at strong, weak or mike. Period. That’s why they should sign him. He’s the best available UFA at LB and that’s a huge need on this team.
Get it now?
* with what Wilba says.
I think Dansby can suit up and start making plays from his first game in
pre-season. I see JR making a serious run at him. Let’s hope the price is close to being reasonable.
LarryHarryCarlPepper
by gr8kicks on Feb 19, 2010 1:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
My question about Dansby is he more than a 2 year fix
He hasn’t been a standout so far in his career. He’ll be 30 in 2 years. If the team signs him to a 4-5 year 40-50 Mill contract, the cap comes back and now we have Pierce part 2.
A guy that plays well for half a contract, goes into decline, causes team to pass up younger more talented player in draft, causing team to look at another older over priced free agent in 2014.
Free agency in the NFL is a vicious cycle. And I remember when Adalius Thomas coming off an ALL PRO season, at about the same age, signed in NE and faded to obscurity.
Who says that Dansby is guaranteed not to fail that way?
by giantblue63 on Feb 19, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Drafting a MLB at #15
is not an option, most likely any LB we get at #15 will not be ready to start right away and run the defense. If we sure up our D-Line, our young LBs we have now and who else we get will be fine. The defense feeds off the line (refer to 2007), a strong dominant line will help out the LBs and DBs.
you can never have too many DEs.
I Disagree!!
The mike backer we draft at 15 and we will draft one, will be ready to start, you typically can start a mike as a rookie we see it all the time, willis, beason, lofton, etc….. also if you dnt believe me perry fewell also started a rookie mike backer in one paul pusluzny and he did well before breaking his arm so i think we will draft McClain if he is there and plug him in come day one…………………side note i am against drafting a DE. we have a log jam there already as well as sintim who can double as a DE. i really hope they dnt draft a pure lineman, if they want another pass rusher then someone like kindle is the way to go but we need a mike backer.
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
drafting a MLB is a great idea.
WHO!
McClain is the only one worth it. He’s gone at #15?
Absolutely friggin not does a MLB at #15 make any sort of sense.
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 19, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Well...
Do you think McClain can start as a rookie MLB?
by Great Gatsby on Feb 19, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
I think Darrly Washington…or quite possibly, Brandon Spikes could too.
…they’d be drastic reach arounds at #15 tho. Washington’s probably there at #46
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 19, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Ok My man
I follow Cfootball, but not like reading publications, going online to read where they decide to go to to school, etc. I follow the college games (some weekends, much more excitng than NFL imho), and the players I see on TV or if i read about them before the draft…I have heard lot good good reports about Washington and I have seen Spikes enough
by Great Gatsby on Feb 19, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
McClain is just that special and
very well could be there at #15. Bucky Brooks from NFL Network/NFL.com has him going to us in his mock 2.0. If he’s not going to be there, I doubt we trade up to get him. I believe that the Dolphins are in the Dansby Derby and will most likely get an ILB in FA, hopefully letting this guy fall to us. Maybe just wishful thinking, but a man can dream, can’t he?
I agree with those that say to give Goff a shot, but this kid is just super special and would be a big upgrade, probably better than Dansby out of the gate.
I also agree that Spikes could start, but not Washington. I think he would need some time adjusting, but I do like him.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
and yes you can have too many DE's
We are dealing with it now our we already have a 1st rd, 2nd rd and 3rd picks at DE, that is enough. we can barely keep these guys happy
But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!
I still think that McClain could fall to us at 15
In the 3-4 MLB is not a high value position, NT and OLB are.
How many top level guys are in the draft at those positions. All of sudden they are in high demand, as teams shift to 3-4. Which OLB in free agency settles things for a team?
If Seattle is a 4-3 team, with 2 picks ahead of Giants has Tatupu, Bears have Urlacher
Jax is a maybe, but Durant played well for them. Dolphins need OLBs bad, an ILB would be a luxury pick (Porter is gone and Taylor might as well be).
We are evaluating McClain as if other teams need an MLB as badly as the Giants do.
damn 49ers might take him if they are going BPA….. if they have both P willis and McClain I’m going to freak though. That will just not be fair
by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 19, 2010 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
If JAX is going to draft Tebow
We really should just trade with them and get it over with
by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 19, 2010 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
Based on what I saw at Senior Bowl
Jax might get Tebow in the 3rd round, he’s at 62 on DBI, 58 on Scouts Inc, so we are only talking about 12 or so spots.
How do you take him before 2nd round?
by giantblue63 on Feb 20, 2010 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
The Jags are simply not dumb enough to draft Tebow that high.
Selling tickets, for one season…is one thing.
But Tebow’s a project and if he busts it could really send the team into a downward spiral.
They don’t have a 2nd round pick either, so they need to get a good player in the 1st who can contribute.
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 20, 2010 7:52 AM EST up reply actions
Well..
Ask him if he thinks he is a quarterback too?
Give Dansby the $$$
I think that they’ll go after Dansby regardless of the price and talk him down. He isn’t going to get $30M anywhere. They’ll give him $15-20M probably. I like what Free was saying. They can’t go after a DE specifically I don’t think because you can through Tuck at DT and then start Kiwi and Osi at DE since they both don’t want to sit.
Then they can draft a DT and do a rotation like 08. I like that idea best because then you can throw Tuck at DE occasionally to put say Price at DT with Canty and rotate Alford in.
So for the D-line:
Kiwi, Tuck, Canty, Osi —> rotate to Kiwi/Tuck, Price/Alford, Canty, Osi
Then hopefully maybe even put Kiwi to LB on occasional plays.
LBs:
Sintim, Dansby, Boley
*Maybe draft a LB in the 3rd.
I just don’t see them spending that kind of cash for Porter or Seymour. I also don’t see JR drafting Spiller because they’re not going to give up on Jacobs or Bradshaw that quickly. I like the idea of Spiller, but I just don’t see the Giants drafting him.
Why do people keep putting Dansby at MLB
MLB in 4-3 is not the same as ILB in 3-4
Has he been a signal caller before??
Are we sure that Sintim won’t be ready??
I could be persuaded to want him, because he definitely makes plays, but I just don’t see Dansby as a slam dunk for this team, right now.
Giants should take Spiller!
I hope Spiller is available at 15. They should definitely take him. He’s a threat to score every time he touches the ball. When was the last time Giants had a RB like that? They get a good DE in the late rounds and get LB in the second round.
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