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AP is gone, now who will follow?

firing squad

Antonio Pierce is no longer a New York Giant. We expected as much, so we can't say it's a surprise.

Pierce was an outstanding player for the Giants for several seasons, and as much as we loved to criticize him his last season or so we all need to remember that. He was a key part of a Super Bowl-winning team, and should always be remembered fondly.

Mike Garafolo had a pair of excellent posts on Pierce Wednesday. One on his release. Another on his plans to continue playing.

Star-divide

Speculation on where Pierce ends up has already begun. SB Nation bloggers for the St. Louis Rams and Oakland Raiders (yes, Oakland, the team AP trashed during the season) are already discussing adding Pierce to their teams.

I wish Pierce well, but his time had come and gone in New York. Now that the Giants have begun the deconstruction of last season's disappointing 8-8 team, who else will be joining AP in looking for work? I think it is pretty safe to assume that the 2010 roster, especially on defense, will look a lot different than the 2009 one.

Here are eight guys I think have little to no shot at being back with the Giants in 2010. Let's call them the Erasable Eight. I am not going to bother explaining why each guy is on the list -- I think we have already done enough of that.

There are probably a couple of other guys who should be added to this list. But, I have to admit that I really liked the sound of 'Erasable Eight,' so I didn't even try to go any farther than that. Feel free to add or subtract whoever you want.

(E-mail Ed at bigblueview@gmail.com. Follow Big Blue View on 'Twitter.")

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Wish Goff could do it

but not sure anyone thinks he can

So a FA like Dansby or a high pick that can start immediately like McClain seems to be the easy answer.

Prefer McClain but that means trading up. If needed I would hope to see JR give up players not extra picks, but…

by MSP Giant on Feb 12, 2010 7:15 AM EST reply actions  

Add Koets

or anyone else and they become the “Nervous Nine”

by G Fan in England on Feb 12, 2010 7:54 AM EST reply actions  

Or ...

the ‘No-good Nine.’ Yeesh … I need to get a life! LOL!

by Ed Valentine on Feb 12, 2010 7:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Wilkinson should stay for another year. Especially if we play Tampa 2 he could find himself a nice niche at strong side LB

by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 12, 2010 7:59 AM EST reply actions  

The only niche

the guy has ever found is on the injured list. Can’t keep waiting for guys who can’t get on the field.

by Ed Valentine on Feb 12, 2010 8:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Enough!

Gerris Wilkinson’s reign of terror is over! hehehe

by wilddre22 on Feb 12, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Everybody but Clark and Bernard

Dockery, Wilkinson and Moss become RFA’s with the lack of a CBA, although Dockery was a RFA last year, which I don’t know if it changes things or not.

Bleeding Blue since 1962

by sunlion333 on Feb 12, 2010 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

If Robbins and Bernard

are both let go that would indicate FA or multiple draft picks at DT even allowing for Alford’s return as we know the Giants like to carry DL to keep them fresh.

If one or both stay then the first round pick moves to another position. If McClain and Berry are gone the other LB’s and S may be considered reaches at 15….which leads us back to OT with our pick.

The last few years we have picked late and missed out on the top tier of OT available. However, this year we are in position to have a choice from a few good ones.

by G Fan in England on Feb 12, 2010 8:31 AM EST reply actions  

this is why we should take a look at Wilfork… we’ve all talked about plugging up the middle, well i think this guy fits the mold

by Flynner on Feb 12, 2010 9:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Two comments

First, AP’s disc problem may be the cause of his poor play in both 2008 and 2009. If so, he should retire.
Second, I would not be so quick to dump Danny Clark. He was brought in as an insurance policy at SLB and fulfilled his role. His play may not have impressed anyone but the fact is that the Giants had no one better. Imagine what it would have been like if he hadn’t been there. Since we still don’t know if Sintim can play the position, I would consider bringing Clark back as a veteran backup.
BTW, I believe Rocky Bernard is the only one on the list who is under contract for next year.

Mickey C

by Mickey C on Feb 12, 2010 8:32 AM EST reply actions  

It was discovered this season

but may have started developing last year. Just trying to figure out why his play slipped so much last year. When Tony Kubek retired in 1965 with back and neck problems after three years of declining performance, the doctors pointed to the bad hop grounder that hit him in the throat in the 1960 World Series as a possible starting point for his problems, even though there were no visible symptoms.

Mickey C

by Mickey C on Feb 12, 2010 9:33 AM EST up reply actions  

True, it flared up this year and...

…he didn’t know exactly when it happened, but it most definitely would have surfaced last year as well. I know this because I have 2 herniated discs in my neck and the term “bulging” is commonly used to define this condition as it was on my report from my Orthopaedist.

His performance started to drop because AP has played above his physical abilities for years by using the muscle between his ears. He actually lost weight last offseason to increase his speed and it was noticeable this year. He was also largely exposed by poor DT play.

Bleeding Blue since 1962

by sunlion333 on Feb 12, 2010 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Somebody..

Maybe it was J.R. who read my post yesterday, said Pierce should be gone and ‘lo and behold, he is. Let’s add Rouse to that list, and possibly McKenzie?..I also think the Plax incident played a small underlying reason, why A.P. is gone.

by Great Gatsby on Feb 12, 2010 8:32 AM EST reply actions  

Can't agree on McKenzie...

   And I’d give Rouse a chance in camp to make the team. McKenzie was hurt, but played decently when he wasn’t and either as a starter or a reserve, he has value and can play, though probably not as an ironman anymore. Rouse switched teams in mid-season, wasn’t great, but had some positives and I’d give him a chance knowing the system to see what he can do. Clark might also have value, but in a reserve role.

by Cranky50 on Feb 12, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

McKenzie

has a couple good years left in him and was in the upper end of RT’s performance-wise, believe it or not. Rouse is still under contract, so we lose nothing by having him at vet mini camp and training camp, to see if he’s got anything. He’s not a bad back up, but I’m hoping Anderson or Rashad can take the next step and make the squad.

Bleeding Blue since 1962

by sunlion333 on Feb 12, 2010 9:03 AM EST up reply actions  

One other thing..

IMHO, the Giants do have a tendency when DRAFTING linebackers, to let them play special teams, and wait about threee years to figure out if they can start. Look USC
(not Steve Spurrier’s USC, the one on the left coast) had 3 linebackers drafted in the first round, all were starters, one a Pro Bowler. If the Giants wind up with a LB at #15, he better be able to start immediately that early in the first round, don’t you agree?

by Great Gatsby on Feb 12, 2010 8:42 AM EST reply actions  

The only problem is

that McClain is the only value LB at #15, so we would have to move up to be sure of getting him. I really believe that JR won’t want to give up enough to move up and actually prefers to draft from the lower part of Rd. 1 to get top value at a high Rd. 2 price. With the CBA fallout looming, he’ll want as many draft picks as possible. Trading down is the simplest way to accomplish that. This draft is loaded with Tackle talent on both sides of the ball, LB and S have a pretty big drop in talent from the top guy to the next player and there is good value in Rds 2-3.

JR seems to shy away from high priced rookies and likes to work from the bottom of the first round. Now this could very well be just a byproduct of where we sat in the rd. for his first few drafts, but he’s made comments to that effect and I’ll believe different when I see it.

Bleeding Blue since 1962

by sunlion333 on Feb 12, 2010 9:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Good list Ed.

None of those guys should stay. Bernard was useless this year. He was healthy the whole year as far as anyone knows, all he did was get fatter. I dunno how he’s got any chance of coming back

Danny Clark might come back. I’d think Sintim’s gonna get the starting spot anyway, so its probably good to have a vet like Clark on the squad (as AP’s gone now).

Fred Robbins is just like AP, sad to see him go but its probably time. Or maybe they give him a minimum offer to come and try and prove himself. He had the microfracture surgery in the offseason too.

The rest should’ve been cut before Sheridan

Bye, AP :(

by FreeBradshaw on Feb 12, 2010 8:43 AM EST reply actions  

The only non UFA's are

Clark and Bernard. The rest are goners. Clark is a stable utility guy, but I doubt we make him an offer. Bernard was a waste of space unless the injury affected his play. We’ll have to let the coaches figure that one out.

Dockery was tendered for last year and didn’t distinguish himself one bit. The Moss and Wilkinson experiments are over and unsuccessful. Robbins is just done, even if he recovers farther from the injury. C.C. Brown is going down. Whimper has never really stepped up, but has great measurables. If Flaherty can’t make this guy valuable in 3 years, then he’s of little worth to us. Too, bad, I had hopes for him.

Now, with the lack of a CBA, Dockery, Wilkinson and Moss become RFA’s. I’d be very surprised if any of them are tendered.

The question is if Dockery being a RFA last year affects his status or ability to make him restricted for a second year. He might have some market value, if even for a later round pick. Spags seems to like to pick from our vine, so……….

I know, wishful thinking. They’re all toast.

Bleeding Blue since 1962

by sunlion333 on Feb 12, 2010 8:48 AM EST reply actions  

Clark, Robbins and Whimper are all UFA's

Moss, Dockery RFAs
The rest are under contract

by giantblue63 on Feb 12, 2010 9:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Whimper is only a 3 year vet

Without a CBA, the requirements for UFA increases to 6 years, not 4, which makes Whimper a RFA.

You’re right about Clark, he wasn’t on the UFA list I was working from.

Bleeding Blue since 1962

by sunlion333 on Feb 12, 2010 9:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Thats true, Scouts Inc either knows something we don't or they posted incorrectly.

On a side note I expect Cofield to get a 2nd round tender, and if another team signs him and they get an extra 2nd rounder, I wouldn’t be mortified.

by giantblue63 on Feb 12, 2010 9:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Cofield deserves and will get another contract, but....

maybe you are on to something as with the uncapped year also comes the possibility of a lockout, so why do long term deals.

He was our best DT last year, so we can’t even take a chance of losing him.

Bleeding Blue since 1962

by sunlion333 on Feb 12, 2010 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Great List ED!!!! but

I dont believe Kevin Dockery should be on it i think we will give him a 1 yr contract just like derrick ward’s last yr. think about it if ross is healthy we have webby,A.R., thomas and dockery as the dime back. he is a quality player who plays bigger than his size i would love to see him stay and round out a great cornerback 4 some.

But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!

by Blue Gates on Feb 12, 2010 9:19 AM EST reply actions  

Dockery was tendered last year

and did nothing to distinguish himself or earn a spot on the roster. Bruce Johnson outplayed him and had his issues as well. That doesn’t bode well for a veteran, when a UDFA outplays you.

Bleeding Blue since 1962

by sunlion333 on Feb 12, 2010 9:24 AM EST up reply actions  

bs's system may also have effected his play

b johnson was an UFA.. so he was coming in with no prior schems to transfer from in the nfl.. dockery had to learn bs’s style of d and imo it just didnt fit well with him.

mayb b johnson is a better player, but dockery is not terrible by any means.. hes came up big in games before and i’d give him another shot

by semsemma on Feb 12, 2010 9:30 AM EST up reply actions  

HUH!!!!

He was in a system that no one in the backfield played well bruce johnson outplayed webby on some sundays so let me guess we gotta get rid of corey as well???? lol man k. dockery is fine you will not find a more aggressive dime back he is clearly an asset

But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!

by Blue Gates on Feb 12, 2010 9:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Ok, then who do we dump?

With Webster, Ross, Thomas and B. Johnson there’s little room for Dockery. If the team tenders a RFA they are looking to get one more year out of him while other team members develop.

That was last year. This year is different and a thank you, but no for Dock.

I think you guys give too much leeway to players by saying it was the scheme. As a DB you either play Man or Zone. A nickle or dime have different roles. The nickle most often covers the Slot receiver and the dime plays hybrid zone. You get beat, you get beat. This usually is where Dockery would get called for DPI. That is simply undisciplined play. He’s toast. Butter him up and dip him in egg yoke.

Our secondary was victimized by poor D-line play. A D-lineman misses his assignment then the LB’s become exposed, pulling them off of their guy thereby overloading the defensive backfiled. Do you remember how many times we saw our defenders chasing opposition players from behind?

Bleeding Blue since 1962

by sunlion333 on Feb 12, 2010 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

wouldnt

managaement keep more than 4 cbs?.. i mean, we had cwebb, ross, thomas johnson and dockery.. injuries happen right? im pretty sure 5 cbs will be on the roster.

thee only way we rid ourselves of the worst of the group is either by drafting a player with better talent/upscale or grabbing a FA. iif dockery is our worst cb..then im happy w/ that. our unit lacks speed, and dockery is the only one with it.. not sure about b johnsons speed.

by semsemma on Feb 12, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Dock i believe will be back

last year was his worst by far.. in my eyes, from prior years.. kevin dockery was this years bruce johnson.. he adds speed to our slower cb position and has played the ball well in the past.. i give him another year to show his talent.

if we’ve given moss this much time, i think kdock deserves another year lol

by semsemma on Feb 12, 2010 9:28 AM EST reply actions  

Dockery

He was serviceable when our D was on top of it’s game. I would not include him in anything great. Did you see the Carolina game? Smith ate him up. I’d hold on to him and hope his game improves.

by Last year in Sec 127 on Feb 12, 2010 9:36 AM EST reply actions  

true

but in that respect, it was bs’s defense on the field.. and were talkin about s.smith.. he’s pretty good..

our d made vincent jackson look great. with cwebb on him at that.

s/n…im still one of those who hasnt jumped on the v.jackson fanclub

by semsemma on Feb 12, 2010 9:40 AM EST up reply actions  

UMMMMMM!!

Please tell me your not talking about Steve Smith the all pro who eats everybody up, LMAO that does not mean dock is not good he ran into a hell of a WR no one said he should be a #1 but a dime back cmon give him some credit

But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!

by Blue Gates on Feb 12, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Right BG...

…but Smith had his worst season last year and had some rook throwing him the ball. I’m still sore over that game. Should’ve had some sort of help on Smith. Heres hoping that Fewell rights the ship. Like I said, I’d hold onto him.

by Last year in Sec 127 on Feb 12, 2010 10:15 AM EST reply actions  

I see your point

Yes sheridan made some grave mistakes in scheming but what mistifies me is that we still had the #13 ranked D, so did sheridan suffer from key injuries to his best players or what?? the guy might have actaully been a good DC but he just was a lame when it came to motivation i guess…………………..just interesting

lets go PERRY!!! bring back the aggresive nature we r used to seeing

But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!

by Blue Gates on Feb 12, 2010 10:29 AM EST reply actions  

Disagree on Whimper

I would put Koets on the there over Whimper.

Whimper has an NFL body and is a capable backup I would think (although how would be know since we never see them play). Koets is overmatched and to me doesn’t have the build to make it work.

by dubsrub on Feb 12, 2010 10:30 AM EST reply actions  

Probably both should go

Neither one of them has done anything to help this team. Nor are they likely to.

by Ed Valentine on Feb 12, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Replacing AP

With AP officially gone, and the D official in need of a Veteran leader, I don’t see how we do not end up with Brackett or Dansby. Forget trying to MAKE Justin Tuck be the leader by putting it in the paper – the guy does not have the makeup.

I’m not thrilled with Goff from what I have seen, and like center, wouldn’t it be beneficial to have a veteran guy running the D from that spot?

If we end up with McClain, then fine. But I like the prospect of picking up a vet for that spot to call the D and then getting a DT in the Draft. Osi needs to go for a pick or two by the way.

by dubsrub on Feb 12, 2010 10:36 AM EST reply actions  

Brackett

Highly unlikely he gets out of Indy. Lots of talk there already about making sure he does not get away. So, don’t count on him being available.

by Ed Valentine on Feb 12, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Its an Uncapped Year

Its uncharted territory. I don’t think any of the usual assumptions apply. What it will come down to is which teams ownership is really committed to winning a championship?

By these rules, Dan Snyder will probably end up getting everyone. But, in an uncapped year, when a team says "we need to do what it takes to keep him:.. Yeah, until the number reaches WHAT?

Teams like the Gmen are making money. They have a franchise QB and so many of the pieces in place. I would argue that the time to act is NOW to win championships – especially with the current state of the NFC. Back in the days of Dan Reeves, Kent Graham et all, if we had this situation I would say Do Nothing, we don’t have enough important pieces in place to justify the expenditure. But to me, with this core, a move up for Suh, trading OSI or a couple of big pickups in FA would say alot about our managements committment to winning more championships.

by dubsrub on Feb 12, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Every team has like 4-5 tags. Most of the actually useful UFA’s won’t even get to know how much $$ they would command on the free market.

by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 12, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Off topic but!!!!

Do you guys think the Giants are letting their traditon hold them back??? by this I mean do you think we are too focused on running the ball when we have the highest paid QB along with smith, nicks, manningham, barden, boss and beckum i mean cmon why have all of those to just line up in i formation all day. Look at the colts and saints they play to their strenght and i love our running game but i think we can really air it out like arizona and green bay but TC is too traditional. what do you think?

But dont tell em i told you that !!!!!

by Blue Gates on Feb 12, 2010 10:38 AM EST reply actions  

Its the coach not the tradition

Fassel installed a pretty aggressive passing offense, and so did Allie Sherman.

But Giants seem to eschew the high percentage passing that many other teams feast on. If someone else has gotten a good fix on why let me know.

The focus of the offense the last 2 training camps has been big plays, deep throws. I hope this year is the Red Zone and short yardage.

by giantblue63 on Feb 12, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Also the location

Parcells used to say that, if you or going to play in the northeast in December, you have to be able to run because the weather and the wind can cause real problems for the passing game. He also used the running game to control the clock, use up time and keep his defense off the field (keeping them fresh). Coughlin, as a former Parcells assistant, has cloned the game plan.

Mickey C

by Mickey C on Feb 12, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Because KILLdrive

is a terrible OC

thats why they continue trying to throw it deep on 3rd and 2.

by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 12, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

They need to FOCUS on their tradition

Running the football, playing defense and playing mistake-free football is the foundation to success in this league. That has not changed despite what anyone says.

Airing it out is completely overrated in my opinion. It curries fan favor because its “exciting”, but Giant fans have to remember. Gilbride had Eli throwing 50+ times in the Buffalo game in sideways rain and gale force winds – we have already been there and done that. Its not what brought us our success.

Teams MUST move the chains and control the clock to keep the defense rested and the other teams offense off the field. The Parcells Giants, the Steelers, the Ravens et al already proved that this formula can topple any of the High Flying passing acts in the league.

Finally, the one thing I have to say about this is that ELI struggles mightely throwing the ball in wind or adverse conditions – its his (an our) achilles. We must recognize this and realize that we have to play a game that will not be overly reliant on him for that reason. We have to be balanced.

by dubsrub on Feb 12, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Pass,pass,pass!Pass rush and ballhawkin' all day when we get the opponent in straight pass mode!

I think Moss will be ok somewhere else….maybe underneath on a team like Hou. or Det.
Whimper and Koets,who cares.Dock should have to earn it.Clark is ok as a run down back-up.Robbins and Bernard probably are done.C.C. and Wilk as well.No way on Mckenzie that smells like scapegoating and you won’t find an FA as good as him or a rook to beat him out right away.

by Shaunthegiant on Feb 12, 2010 11:41 AM EST reply actions  

Interesting enough....

…Pat Traina over at inside football brought up RFA Demeco Ryans as a good fit for us. Even if they tender him at first round level or even 1st & 3rd, he’s a bargain.

I’m just not sure he’s a 3 down backer.

Bleeding Blue since 1962

by sunlion333 on Feb 12, 2010 12:00 PM EST reply actions  

I wouldn’t give a 1st and a 3rd for any single player currently in the NFL except the likeliest of All-Pros.

by mclaren_is_the_best on Feb 12, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Slip of the keyboard.

I meant to say that at #15 he’s a bargain. 1st and a 3rd is too much and JR won’t give up a pick in the first three rounds unless he has extra picks.

Bleeding Blue since 1962

by sunlion333 on Feb 12, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

If...

If the Giants were ever going to make moves on draft day, last year was the ideal year to do so, with 10, count ‘em 10 draft picks. What did they do, moved up five picks in the 5th round I believe to draft a project out of Cal-Poly..The kid might be good in a couple years?…My point is the Giants typically aren’t wheelers and dealers on draft day, the exception would be Eli of course…As much as I dislike
him, Belichick is good at getting the most bang for his buck in the draft.

by Great Gatsby on Feb 12, 2010 1:01 PM EST reply actions  

CB's

I agree with Sunlion regarding Dockery. There’s only so many roster spots. Webster, Ross, Thomas and B. Johnson are locks. JR will most likely address CB somewhere later in the draft. I would assume we will run with 5 CB’s considering our injury history.

Also there is no way we move up to #1, this game isn’t won with the huge splash, it’s year after year hitting on the “value picks.” There will be great value at positions of need for us later on.

by buckyyo on Feb 12, 2010 4:04 PM EST reply actions  

ehhh...

i don’t wanna want to see robbins go, I think he still has some tricks left. And sinorce I think needs a chance at wr. Yes I said it, and call me crazy especially with the wr’s we have, but I think moss could be an addition threat. Everyone else on the erasable eight I wouldn’t cry over.

by g-gats81 on Feb 13, 2010 8:11 AM EST reply actions  

Ok, you're crazy

Moss stinks.

AP hurt his neck against Arizona. They thought it was a stinger but it never got better and they found the bulging disk weeks later. I have 2 in my neck and still train with heavy weights. A bulging disk doesn’t make you fat and slow. I’ll always love AP for his contributions to the team but his time was up.

by Wilba on Feb 13, 2010 10:48 AM EST reply actions  

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