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Around SBN: Is Adebayor About To Become A Full-Time Spur?

New York Giants Notes: Reversing the Spell Edition

Thank you Ed Valentine, for letting the cat out of the bag that I have been bad luck since you brought me onto to this big blue ship. I had the same effect on R.A. Dickey this past summer when I picked him up for my fantasy team after he started out something like 5-0, and then suddenly his knuckleball stopped knuckling. I released him and he returned to being awesome. More on the supposed "Farley curse" later, but let's get to some serious Giants' business--namely, can they stop fumbling the ball and can they beat a suddenly and extremely competitive Jaguars' team at home Sunday? They can't slip to 6-5 again like last year when they lost to San Diego, and the season became desperate. Anyway, here is some pre-Turkey fodder....

If Ahmad Bradshaw and Eli Manning can't hold on to football, Tom Coughlin may lose grip of job
Now, just two weeks after the Giants were declared by many the best team in their conference, Coughlin has to do more than make a symbolic last stand. Coughlin has to coach his brains out to turn this thing around, to lead a reeling, injured club back around toward a playoff spot. Or else, he may not be coaching here next season. Yes, somehow, we are back to that again: Six games left for Coughlin to prove he deserves another contract extension beyond next season, if he even wants one.

Very true. The fumbles are not TC's fault, but the losses ultimately will be if they continue to mount. 

Eli Manning Has Quietly Become Giants’ Most Frequent Fumbler - NYTimes.com
For all of Coughlin’s pleading consternation about fumbles over the years — most famously with running back Tiki Barber and most often with subsequent backs like Brandon Jacobs and Ahmad Bradshaw (who fumbled against the Eagles, too) — the biggest culprit, quietly, has been Manning.

Indeed, Manning has seven fumbles, one more than Bradshaw.  The article also mentions that Eli has 59 fumbles in 99 games while his brother Peyton has 57 through 202 games.  Yikes.  I wonder what the conversation will be at the dinner table Thursday.  "Hey, Eli," will say Peyton.  "Pass me the potatoes, and DON'T drop them." 

New York Giants' Eli Manning must prove once again whether he is truly an elite NFL quarterback, like his brother - ESPN New York
It's time for Eli Manning to prove once again whether he is truly an elite QB. That's because the Giants haven't suffered the one injury that would truly end their season. Manning might be throwing too many interceptions and diving when he should be sliding, but he's still healthy -- and as long as the franchise quarterback is standing in that pocket, the Giants' season continues to breathe, no matter who is blocking in front of him and who is catching his passes.

Enough said.

Star-divide

 

Giants DT Chris Canty rips Eagles guard for two 'dirty' blocks | NJ.com
"I don’t play that way. I never have," the Giants’ guard and tackle said. "There’s a difference between cutting somebody and cutting somebody from behind late like that and going after somebody’s legs. I think it was a dirty shot. If you’re out in the open and cut somebody from the front, that’s legal, when you see them coming. But when their back’s to you, we all know that’s blatant." Attempts to reach Herremans through the Eagles’ media relations department were unsuccessful. Herremans was able to get in touch with Canty after the final whistle. "I said something to him. He wanted to speak to me after the game," Canty said. "I said, ‘There’s no place for that, no excuse for what you did. It’s not acceptable. It’s not.’"

One thing that  kind of slipped through the cracks after Sunday's game were those two penalties on Eagles' guard Todd Herremans.  He was flagged for clipping and for an illegal chop block on Chris Canty. The article says the first one was called tripping but should have been a clip. I remember it as being called a clip, because I also remember not having heard that called in about 20 years. Can anyone clarify? Anyway, Canty is not happy, and it should be interesting when Herremans visits the Meadowlands in a few weeks.

Ascending Jaguars are in postseason hunt | jacksonville.com

There surely won't be any knocks on the Jags here this week. And well there shouldn't be as they are 6-4 and leading the AFC South.  Well, they're tied with Indy but technically ahead of them because of that ridiculous 59-yard field goal by Josh Scobee that knocked me out of my survivor pool.  Ugh.  Anyway, our own Ed Valentine had this to say about the Giants' desperation for a win Sunday.   

And now, as Ed mentioned Tuesday, he is blaming me for the bad luck the Giants have suffered these last few weeks. Let me say for the record that I am not a witch and I am not bad luck. However, I did read up on how to break the spell that seems to have coincided with my being brought on board.....

Voodoo reverse a hex spell | Doktor Snake's Voodoo Spells And Conjure Shack
If someone has been poor mannered enough to hex you, you might like to send their bad work back to them with this voodoo reverse a hex spell.You’ll need a skull candle, which you can get from spiritual supplies stores. You’ll need to get everything ready in advance as the working is done at the stroke of midnight. This is what you do. Burn some Jinx Removing incense and anoint the skull candle with Uncrossing oil. Light the skull candle as the clock strikes midnight.

Remove Curse And Stop Bad Luck
Curses are no fun.They can ruin your life.You can remove a curse. I call the process Remove Curse or Reverse Curse. There are many kinds of curses from the everyday anger we project on someone or something else to the professionally constructed and projected curse from someone practicing black magic. Sometimes we do not even recognize we are cursing or that our own cursing is what most leaves us open to being cursed.

How to Get Rid of Bad Luck
If you’re going to learn how to get rid of bad luck, scroll no more – here you will find aggressive, slightly bizarre strategies for reversing your luck and reclaiming your mojo.

This one is particularly hilarious. I mean, look at the guy who is writing the blog. He also mentions having intercourse with an ugly person as one of his methods. That of course, is something former baseball funnyman Mark Grace used to talk about. See below ...

The real definition of a 'slumpbuster' - Kansas City News - Plog
(Mark) Grace cured his hitting woes and losing streaks by, well, here's exactly how Grace defined a "slumpbuster" on a 2003 episode of Jim Rome's TV show, Rome is Burning. "A slumpbuster is when you have to take one for the the team," Grace said. "It's finding the biggest, nastiest, fattest broad, and you put the wood to her to come out of your slump. Also known as 'jumping on a grenade for the team.'"

Funny that Grace mentions the word "grenade," as that was the word Ed mentioned in his Kudos and Wet Willies Monday morning. Coincidence?  I think not. 

Enjoy your Thanksgiving, guys!

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I'm glad someone else wrote about Herremans' dirty play

His penalties did not escape my attention when I chimed in on the K&WW thread. The first one deserves a nasty fine, as he was completely out of the play and rolled up on Canty from behind in order to keep him from stepping up and making a big play. Canty is lucky to have escaped that clip without an injury.

I know what Dawk said, re: Herreman’s rep, but twice in the same game is unconscionable, and I hope this is considered when deliberating the league’s elite offensive lineman for honors at the end of the season.

by Step up and make big plays on Nov 24, 2010 7:46 AM EST reply actions  

Herreman

is far from an elite lineman!

When asked if he is scared of the Redskins..
" I am scared of 3 things, spiders, snakes, and the IRS".

Bill Parcells

by Great Gatsby on Nov 24, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Herremans

put a target on his back for Dec. 19. Canty is one guy I would not want to mess with

by BigBlue82 on Nov 24, 2010 7:51 AM EST reply actions  

Let’s be fair though, you might not be as worried about messing with Chris Canty if you yourself were 6-6, 321…

Follow Bleeding Green Nation on Twitter & Facebook

by JasonB on Nov 24, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Hate to agree with a bird

but when you’re 6-6, 321, there’s not too many humans that can put fear in your heart.

by njgiant on Nov 24, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

on a football field.

Details of the operations of an interstate dog fighting ring were revealed, with some portions involving drugs and gambling. Gruesome details involving abuse, torture and execution of under-performing dogs ... He admitted to being involved in the destruction of 6–8 dogs, by hanging or drowning...

by Simms-McConkey on Nov 25, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

So Mike..

Will you post pics of the “GRENADE YOU THROW YOURSELF UPON”
You know for proof???
Nothing R rated please I have been sick to my stomach enough already

You can see a lot just by observing-Yogi Berra

Step up and Free FREE BRADSHAW!!

by greg a on Nov 24, 2010 8:01 AM EST reply actions  

Oh, boy

Not sure Mike’s wife would appreciate being referred to as a ‘grenade.’ LOL! Hey, Mike, hope the Mrs. doesn’t read this stuff.

by Ed Valentine on Nov 24, 2010 8:06 AM EST up reply actions  

she doesn't

but she would probably laugh at this too

by Mike Farley on Nov 24, 2010 8:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Farley Curse

Mike, if the Giants lose again this week we are officially changing your icon to a black cat.

by Ed Valentine on Nov 24, 2010 8:12 AM EST reply actions  

I think it all goes back to the...

…David Jacks affair.

He joined the BBV community on Dec. 21, 2009 — right before we lost two of the worst games in recent Giants history by a combined score of 85-16 to officially drive the nail in the 2009 coffin. When taken with the two losses after Farley’s arrival this season, one can only begin to wonder…

Be this a lesson — writers brought it from the outside bring their bad mojo and are responsible for losses. ;)

by Step up and make big plays on Nov 24, 2010 8:50 AM EST up reply actions  

i think David Jacks was put into witness protection

his new name? Mike Farley.

Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
FREE RORSCHACH44!!!

by wilddre22 on Nov 24, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

ESPN NY

I disagree that Eli has to prove he’s elite. The Giants didn’t give him that huge contract to be elite. They want him to win. Raise your hand if you won’t take a win from Eli any way he can’t get it done. If that means 20 of 30 for 190 yds with 2 TDs and 1 INT every week then so be it. As long as he comes thru in key situations.

Maybe that’s what elite is. Just winning. I haven’t read a clear definition of what is an ‘elite QB’ and I know there’s been some strings on this blog debating the term and whether it applies to Eli. Since the measuring stick seems to be guys like Brady, Peyton and Brees, elite most likely means 30-45 for 370 yds and 3 TDs, while keeping total control of the offense, not making bad decisions, and consistently leading the team down the field.

Is that what it means? I don’t know. More importantly, I don’t care. I want Eli to win. Whatever that means for him. We are a run first team with a great defense. That type of team requires a safe, smart QB with the guts to get it done when it’s close in the 4th quarter. That’s what Eli has been most of the time and that’s what he needs to get back to.

We don't play for the wild card around here kid

by Jaybat on Nov 24, 2010 8:42 AM EST reply actions  

4th Quarter game winning drives define elite QBs, IMO

Eli isn’t known for rallying the troops from behind in the 4th quarter and I think that’s what is so frustrating. Yes, he did have a come from behind Super Bowl drive that we will always be thankful for (aided by a hailmary helmet catch and a dropped INT), but I’m looking at the full body of work. Look it up, he doesn’t have many.

by ggggmen08 on Nov 24, 2010 9:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree

He may not be the total package of what the Giants ask of him yet. But I also don’t think their expectation was ever for him to be in the ‘elite’ top 3 QBs. They locked him up because he was the right QB for their team. A solid, teachable guy they develop and build a supporting cast around.

We don't play for the wild card around here kid

by Jaybat on Nov 24, 2010 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

elite qb.

Eli is a good QB ! he is not great and he in not an elite QB.and never will be.

by Salvatore L Trentacoste on Nov 24, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Whoa, why not sal?

Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!

by Blue Gates on Nov 24, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I did look it up

And, according to the numbers, he is. As of this article last year, with numbers from Pro Football Reference (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/):

Topping the list is the New England Patriots’ Tom Brady, who has converted 21 of 33 comeback opportunities (64%) in his 10 years in the NFL.

No. 2 is Ben Roethlisberger of the Pittsburgh Steelers, who has had 16 comebacks in 31 opportunities (52%).

The Colts’ Peyton Manning may have better career numbers than his younger brother, Giants’ QB Eli, but Eli trumps Peyton in clutchness. Eli, third on our list, has converted 13 comebacks in 27 opportunities (48%) to Peyton’s 29 in 65 (45%).

I’d say 13 is enough to qualify.

Favre has 29, and Kurt Warner has 8, they made the list behind them.

Obviously you like talking without doing your due diligence. And, obviously you like to jump on the Eli bash-wagon. To each their own.

by prmmover on Nov 24, 2010 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

nice

even the haters gotta recognize, when there’s 2 minutes left in a half or game, and you’re down, that’s exactly when you want Eli…

Details of the operations of an interstate dog fighting ring were revealed, with some portions involving drugs and gambling. Gruesome details involving abuse, torture and execution of under-performing dogs ... He admitted to being involved in the destruction of 6–8 dogs, by hanging or drowning...

by Simms-McConkey on Nov 24, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

thank you

My head was about to explode after hearing Eli was no good in the 4th Q. Nice Work.

"Sack-Forced Fumble-TD against any QB in the history of the NFL.... honestly, It would probably be Eli because I see him in pratice and we can't touch him (laughs)" - Justin Tuck

by The Always Well Dressed... on Nov 24, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

NP

I’m tired of pretty much everyone just blatantly bashing, or using useless and error-prone stats to “prove” that he sucks.

Is he perfect? No. Does he make stupid plays here and there? Yeah. Do I yell at the TV when watching the errors happen? Yep.

Would I trade him for any other quarterback in the league? Nope.

Why not? Because he fits here perfectly. He’s got the demeanor to weather the NY media (and fan) storm. He has the trust and respect of his teammates. He’s a great QB, who has his moments of bad execution. He’s a winner, period.

That’s all I can ask out of a QB, is to give it the best you can, and try to put the team in a position to win. I’d rather he fumble or throw an interception trying to make a play to keep us in the game than not try and we lose anyways.

by prmmover on Nov 24, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

+1000

how could ANYONE say eli isn’t freaking clutch

by Nfpdawg on Nov 24, 2010 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

+1000

even when Eli was inconsistent in the begining of his career…..he was always clutch and people never gave him credit for it.

Peyton May Have The Wins!!
But Eli Will Have The Rings!!!

by Blue Gates on Nov 24, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Take a deeper look. I did do my research.

Eli is given credit for 11 comeback victories in the 4th quarter since the beginning of the 2007 season. My point was Eli’s ability to drive his team down the field for a win in the final minutes. They are few and far between. Here are all 11 of those game he is given credit for “leading” comeback victories:

Chicago in 2007. Droughns runs in game winning TD with 1:33 left. Eli finishes the game with under 200 yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs

Jets in 2007. Eli throws go ahead TD with 8 mins left, Aaron Ross returns INT to seal it. Eli finishes with 185 yards, 2 TD and 1 INT.

Chicage in 2007. Droughns runs in game winner with 1:33 left. Eli has 190 yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs.

Dallas in 2007 playoffs. He finished the game with 160 yards passing and Jacobs ran the game winning TD in with 13:29 left. Not really last second.

Green Bay in 2007 playoffs. Corey Webster picks off Favre deep in Green Bay territory and Tynes kicks game winner.

New England in the Super Bowl. Eli throws an INT that goes right through Samuels hands, fumbles the ball while running and falls directly on top of the fumble, and a Hail Mary that Tyree catches against his helmet. Later throws game winner to Burress.

Bengals in 2008. Giants blow 4th quarter lead, kick GW field goal in OT. Eli played well in this one.

Pittsburgh in 2008. Giants got a saftey with 6 mins to go to tie it, Eli TD to Boss later to win it. Good game by Eli.

Carolina in 2008. AKA the Derrick Ward game. Ward carried that team and Jacobs scored with 10 minutes left to give us the win.

Dallas in 2009 – Eli plays the best game I’ve ever seen him play and leads the Giants to a GW field goal in the final seconds.

Atlanta in 2009 – Giants scored their last TD in the game with 10 mins left, blew the lead, and then kicked a GW field goal in OT.

Here are a few games off the top of my head that he has blow in the 4th quarter. Keep in mind that we haven’t had many close losses recently.

Arizona in 2009. Threw last minute INT to Antrelle Rolle.

Philly in 2010. Threw last minute INT and had last minute fumble.

These are the facts. Infer what you will. My inference is that I don’t see a lot of games won in the final 2 mins. I hope this is enough due diligence to satisfy my opinion that Eli doesn’t win a lot of games in the final few minutes.

by ggggmen08 on Nov 24, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

you left out a lot of big comebacks

2004 Dallas – losing but Eli lead the team downfield for the go ahead TD with no time left on the clock. Run by Tiki. Eli’s first win as a Giant.
2005 Denver – losing but Eli lead the team downfield for the go ahead TD with no time left on the clock. Pass to Amani.
2006 at Philly – losing by 17 in the 4th…. Long pass to Plaxico but he fumbles it then Tim Carter recovers it in the endzone TD. Amani “Toe” catch in the endzone reviewed and called a TD. Leads the drive for a game tying field goal. In OT throws the game winner to Plaxico.

"Sack-Forced Fumble-TD against any QB in the history of the NFL.... honestly, It would probably be Eli because I see him in pratice and we can't touch him (laughs)" - Justin Tuck

by The Always Well Dressed... on Nov 24, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I know these are pre 2007

but you can’t leave them out… also you listed the Bear game twice

"Sack-Forced Fumble-TD against any QB in the history of the NFL.... honestly, It would probably be Eli because I see him in pratice and we can't touch him (laughs)" - Justin Tuck

by The Always Well Dressed... on Nov 24, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I did from 2007 on for 2 reasons:

1. By 2007 Eli was an established QB and had enough experience under his belt

2. I have a job (that I’d like to keep) and that was a lot of work as it is

The point I was trying to make was not whether or not he is a good QB, because he is obviously a very good QB, but that there are not a lot of late game heroics in there.

by ggggmen08 on Nov 24, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

it is annoying to go back more years

     it does take more time but my point was those were literally “last minute” games and that Philly game was one of the best comebacks I have ever seen. (note for that game… the OLine gave Eli no help, he was sacked about 8 times)
     prmmover below made all the other points I wanted to say too.. you cant punish a QB for a defensive collaspe, or the kicker getting the final points (or missing them). Eli still has to drive the length of the field to put the kicking team on the field. Thats apart of the clutch 4th Q plays Eli does.
     Now correct me if I’m wrong…. but I have a feeling you are saying all this because in the last 6 weeks, the other QB/team that shares the stadium has 4 victories that took place in the final 2 mins/OT?

"Sack-Forced Fumble-TD against any QB in the history of the NFL.... honestly, It would probably be Eli because I see him in pratice and we can't touch him (laughs)" - Justin Tuck

by The Always Well Dressed... on Nov 24, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

fair enough

just asking

"Sack-Forced Fumble-TD against any QB in the history of the NFL.... honestly, It would probably be Eli because I see him in pratice and we can't touch him (laughs)" - Justin Tuck

by The Always Well Dressed... on Nov 24, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

You're as inconsistent as you claim Eli to be

In your first post:

Eli isn’t known for rallying the troops from behind in the 4th quarter …
but I’m looking at the full body of work.

In your subsequent post:

My inference is that I don’t see a lot of games won in the final 2 mins.

The 4th quarter, and the final 2 minutes, are completely different things. Game winning drives and comebacks don’t always have to happen within the last 2 minutes, and win the game on a pass into the endzone as time expires. He could be responsible for a comeback in the 4th quarter where they take the lead on his last drive, and then the defense can’t hold on, not getting a chance to get back on the field.

And, you’re using a flawed interpretation for most of your “evidence”.

Just because Eli doesn’t throw the actual touchdown that wins the game, doesn’t mean he’s a useless body standing out on the field, and he isn’t instrumental in driving the team down the field.

For instance, in the GB game in ‘07, I remember at least once Eli drove the field to get within field goal range, just to have Tynes miss the potential game winning kick? There were many opportunites where games could have ended with a field goal but didn’t (i.e. 5 times in Seattle for instance).

To your subsequent post below, heroics aren’t just throwing the ending touchdown pass. Usually you have to drive more than 10 yards to make that last final score. To me, heroics is the ability to sustain a long scoring drive, with proper clock management, keeping the chains moving and getting the team in a position to win. Sometimes it’s a touchdown that’s needed, sometimes it’s a field goal, but either way, I think he clearly has what it takes to make great comebacks, and continuing to do so. That’s why I dispute your statement.

by prmmover on Nov 24, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh dear
New England in the Super Bowl. Eli throws an INT that goes right through Samuels hands, fumbles the ball while running and falls directly on top of the fumble, and a Hail Mary that Tyree catches against his helmet. Later throws game winner to Burress.

A giant fan discrediting his superbowl. *smh

All you hear about is the past, the past... the past is the !@#$ing past, this is the present.
THIS IS TEMPORARY! A CHAMPIONSHIP IS PERMANENT
-Michael Strahan

by Willgfass on Nov 24, 2010 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Not discrediting the Super Bowl

I’m not sure why people get so sensitive about this. That Super Bowl was the greatest game of my life. But in the context of how clutch Eli was that game, he was up and down. We had a little luck on our side to win that game. That’s not discrediting the Super Bowl win. Teams need luck every year to go that far.

The impression I get on this site is that if you are not a typical homer fan that says your coach, QB, and players are the best in the league and you wouldn’t trade them for anyone, you are gonna get piled on by anyone and everyone.

by ggggmen08 on Nov 24, 2010 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Not about being a homer

it is about how consistent your argument is. First you say Eli isn’t known for rallying from behind in the 4th quarter…. when the facts show he has many times. Then you changed your argument to Eli doesn’t win a lot of games in the final few minutes…. passed on the defense giving up leads or FGs kicked/TD runs instead of Eli throwing TD passes in their comebacks.
People get piled on when they ignore certain facts or change the points they are trying to make. I hope no one has a problem with good discussions or debates here, but you will most likely get criticized if the point your trying to make is inconsistent.

"Sack-Forced Fumble-TD against any QB in the history of the NFL.... honestly, It would probably be Eli because I see him in pratice and we can't touch him (laughs)" - Justin Tuck

by The Always Well Dressed... on Nov 24, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

'minutes…. passed'

should be ‘minutes….based’. My bad

"Sack-Forced Fumble-TD against any QB in the history of the NFL.... honestly, It would probably be Eli because I see him in pratice and we can't touch him (laughs)" - Justin Tuck

by The Always Well Dressed... on Nov 24, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

My argument wasn't intended to be inconsistent

maybe I misspoke earlier. The point of my original comment was that it has been few and far between when the Giants have needed a score in the final minutes and gotten. I’m not talking about scoring a TD with 13 mins left. I’m talking about having the ball in your hands on the final drive and scoring to tie/win. I did my due diligence to show how each of those 4th quarter comebacks really reflected on Eli’s ability to lead his team from behind.

I’ve also been very consistent in my views on this site that I believe Eli to be a top 7 QB in the NFL. With numerous games being won each week in the final minutes, I started thinking about the last time the Giants have had a thrilling come from behind victory.

Maybe I’m clouded by the INT last year against Arizona and the INT and fumble this week against the Eagles. Obviously on a Giants blog there are going to be more people that disagree with my assessment than agree with it. But I stand by my original comment that the Giants do not come from behind in the final minutes to win many ball games. Part of that has to do with the fact that most of our recent losses have been blowouts.

Sorry if there was confusion in my statements. A lot of my posts during the day are done quickly from my phone while at work. I don’t take a ton of time, and for that reason I may have misspoke.

by ggggmen08 on Nov 24, 2010 8:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I hear yah

even going back to last year. Most Giant wins have mostly been blowouts and most Giant loses have been blowouts. Same can be said for these first 10 games. Since these games are the recent stuff we go by, its easy to say “Giants have not come back”. Believe me, I would love to see another Eli comeback, lets hope we get one… GO BLUE

"Sack-Forced Fumble-TD against any QB in the history of the NFL.... honestly, It would probably be Eli because I see him in pratice and we can't touch him (laughs)" - Justin Tuck

by The Always Well Dressed... on Nov 24, 2010 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Now I think we can agree
I started thinking about the last time the Giants have had a thrilling come from behind victory
Giants do not come from behind in the final minutes to win many ball games. Part of that has to do with the fact that most of our recent losses have been blowouts

I tend to agree with those points. We do seem to either blow out, or be blown out in recent times. And, usually most end-game drama with us has been where we’re up by some points in the 4th, and the defense plays that crappy “prevent”, and then we’re biting our nails with a few minutes left to play.

I don’t think Eli is the “most bestest since sliced bread” quarterback in the league either. But, lately it seems I’ve seen way too many people trying to argue that he sucks, pull things out from anywhere they can to prove it, and never give the guy any credit for what he has been able to do (not a jab at you, you have pointed out positive things in this thread).

I hate posts that seem inconsistent in their arguments anywhere – here on the board, at home, at work, etc, just a pet peeve of mine. I have no issue agreeing to disagree on some things. I just want an honest, even debate on it based on realities, that’s all.

I think this turned out OK from where we started. Thanks for explaining better your positions, and I hope you can understand mine as well.

by prmmover on Nov 24, 2010 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Enjoy your Thanksgiving....

thanks Mike and same to you and your family and also to the entire BBV family.. LET’S GO GIANTS AND TURN THIS THING AROUND.

by rbman3 on Nov 24, 2010 8:44 AM EST reply actions  

Only way of reversing the curse

is to stop going to Albany for training camp.
we loose too many people with Hamstrings alone.

by NYGFan777 on Nov 24, 2010 9:47 AM EST reply actions  

Nicks injury

I’d be interested to hear what the other NYG fans that are surgeons and orthopods have to say — but I’m a little shocked that they are giving Nicks a 3 week recovery from his fasciotomy. Typical surgical approach is two long vertical incisions on the medial and lateral aspects of the leg, leaving it open to allow the muscle to decompress — then primarily closing it with sutures in 2 weeks, maybe 1 week. Another approach is a single incsion and taking part of the fibula (unlikely for him) — even if they closed him primarily with the initial operation, I can’t believe they would let him resume full contact in 3 weeks with a new incision. Perhaps it’s not exactly what I read, or perhaps they just did the operation on a smaller scale, as they are prone to do for athletes. Thoughts?

by chingy1998 on Nov 24, 2010 9:52 AM EST reply actions  

I thought the treatment

was going to be, rub some dirt on it

by BigBlue82 on Nov 24, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor

… not a… oh, wait.

Damn.

Details of the operations of an interstate dog fighting ring were revealed, with some portions involving drugs and gambling. Gruesome details involving abuse, torture and execution of under-performing dogs ... He admitted to being involved in the destruction of 6–8 dogs, by hanging or drowning...

by Simms-McConkey on Nov 24, 2010 9:55 AM EST reply actions  

Eli's fumbles

The one on Sunday was obviously ridiculous, but I bet most of the others came off a rusher coming in clean right past Diehl off the left side (the one forced by Ware in Dallas immediately comes to mind) where Eli had no chance. If he doesn’t see the guy and it’s not a situation where he held onto the ball for too long, you can’t fault him. It’s not like he should be employing the Tiki Barber hold onto the ball method standing in the pocket. There was also one forced by Peppers coming in from the right side where he had no chance. Peyton has been great at avoiding getting hit, that’s why he doesn’t fumble, but I don’t see how even he could avoid it on some of these protection breakdowns.

by Mount17 on Nov 24, 2010 9:56 AM EST reply actions  

Most active fumbles

Another stat I found:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/fumbles_active.htm

Take a look at the list, but also note the ratio of QB’s to any other position players. Seems to me that QB’s have a much higher propensity to fumble, which makes sense since they touch the ball so much more, and have a whole bunch of defensive players looking for nothing better than trying to strip-sack the ball like Osi.

BTW – look who’s tied with Eli – one Michael Vick

Yeah, Eli fumbles, but take it in perspective with the rest of the lists, and who is on it. Is 59 high? Sure, I’d agree. But compared to the rest of the QB’s there, I don’t really think he’s horrible.

by prmmover on Nov 24, 2010 10:51 AM EST reply actions  

That's an interesting list

Most of it is who you would expect- quarterbacks and running backs who get a lot of touches. The ones that I think are inexcusable are the players like antwaan randle el, and josh cribbs, who don’t see nearly as many touches, but still manage to fumble as often.

by P. Gibbons on Nov 24, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

I agree with the low amounts of touches/more fumbles line. Those, I think, are much worse of a situation.

by prmmover on Nov 24, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Giants goose cooked AGAIN!!!!

sorry to be a pesamist but i stated three weeks ago that the Gmen will not win another game this season.well so far they have lost 2 and counting. they have a bad second half.They have all these injuries and it makes me wonder if the strength and conditioning needs to be looked at and drastically changed.

the season is over and the final record will be 6 and 10.

by Salvatore L Trentacoste on Nov 24, 2010 10:59 AM EST reply actions  

Geronimooooooooo!!

"Sack-Forced Fumble-TD against any QB in the history of the NFL.... honestly, It would probably be Eli because I see him in pratice and we can't touch him (laughs)" - Justin Tuck

by The Always Well Dressed... on Nov 24, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Say hi to the birds...

on your way down the canyon. Nice to know you.

by prmmover on Nov 24, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I will admit that I used "Feng Shui" after week 3 the organize my "man cave"

removed all unnecessary, non football related, items…furniture and TV placed in locations that allows a positive energy to flow through…unobstructed. No clutter…a chaotic space welcomes chaos.

I don’t know what happened 2 weeks ago but…I’m pretty sure shaving my beard on the Saturday before the Dallas game has caused all that we are witnessing now. I’m trying to “force grow” my facial hair but it’s not working.

"18 and 1...write THAT down!!" -- AP at XLII

by nywins42 on Nov 24, 2010 10:59 AM EST reply actions  

Jacobs starter Sunday

AB benched for fumbles.

All the Giants should play like Mark Bavaro.
Why is Tom Quinn still ST coach?

by UnknownJintsFan on Nov 24, 2010 11:56 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

hit_hard

Ty for the comeback ratio status. After the last 2 weeks its easy to point fingers, but let’s not forget what we’ve. Gotten from the TC/Eli combo. Eli has been in the league 7 yrs and started 6 of yrs. Out of though 6 he’s been in the plays offs 5 of though yrs. One nfc. championship and a superbowl mvp. Anyone. can say what they want but eli is ELITE! He makes mistakes yes , but if I remember correctly in 2007 he played in a historic game. Matched up against Tom brady questionably the greatest QB of his time. Eli came away with a superbowl ring and mvp if I remember correctly. A superbowl by the critic we should have never been in. Eli played a huge part in. the run by not turnover the ball but once in. that run. We all know the difference between now and then. Sure smith and nicks are great but we have no deep threat. D’s play us tight zone and man to man. Eli has to hammer it in with tight cover and safeties over the top. Which equals tips and picks or no ones open. These aren’t excuses for eli he does need to make better choices, take the sack throw it away. Live play another set of down. Just my thought. Have a great Thanksgiving tomorrow everyone.

by hit_hard on Nov 24, 2010 12:17 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

In a sense, Coughlin should be more on the "hot seat" ...

than a typical coach at 6-4, with a major rash of serious injuries. Why ? Because he always talks about the “mental” aspect of the game, and how he strives to instill discipline in a team. When he was hired, he eveb went so far as to suggest that the rash of IR cases the Giants had experienced in Fassel’s final year were “mostly a mental thing”. Really ?

Yet, year after year, I don’t see a terribly disciplined team (in the Parcells/Belichik mode). We routinely get rashes of penalties and serious injuries. One year it’s false starts (thanks, Luke). Then it’s the stupid 15 yarders after the whistle (thanks, Plax). Where is the discipline that TC speaks of ?

As for fumbling, I thought that he did a fantastic job with Tiki, even arguably saved his career. My question, though, is how does he ever let another RB go even 1 pre-season without making “high and tight” a complete habit ? Were Tiki’s issues somehow unique ?

Frustrating.

by Shofner85 on Nov 24, 2010 3:39 PM EST reply actions  

The good news ?

In the current age of relative “parity”, there are incredible ebbs and flows in a team’s fortunes within the season. After 2 early season losses, all looked bleak. Then, 5 straight wins and we’re the cream of the NFC. Then we get “creamed” in two straight.

Bottom line, all but the Indy game were very win-able, if we hadn’t self destructed. At this point, we have to hope we get a wild card, and get healthy and hot for the play-offs.

by Shofner85 on Nov 24, 2010 3:56 PM EST reply actions  

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