Grading The New York Giants After Four Games
by Ed Valentine on Oct 8, 2010 9:33 AM EDT
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The New York Giants are a quarter of the way through their NFL season, and stand at a pedestrian 2-2. Could be better, could be worse.
I looked at the Giants as a whole Thursday over at SB Nation New York. Check that out if you haven't done so already. Today, let's look at individual performances through the first four games of the season. In general, we all have an idea who we think has been good, and who we think has not. For some clarification, we will of course turn to the grades supplied by the hard-working folks at Pro Football Focus.
Before we start, a quick note about PFF. If you are not familiar with how PFF rates players, each player is graded on a scale ranging from +2 to -2 for every play he is on the field. There is, of course, some subjectivity and I always caution you take the numbers as a guide, not as gospel. The grades, however, are a good indicator of who is playing well and who isn't.
So let's get started.
I will break this down into offense, defense and special teams.
Offense
Through four games the Giants player with the best offensive grades is probably going to stun you. Right tackle Kareem McKenzie, a guy many of you have been begging the Giants to get rid of for a couple of seasons, has a +7.1 grade thru four games. McKenzie did have those two unforgivable unsportsmanlike conduct penalties against Tennessee, but otherwise has played well. The 10-year veteran is still a dominating run blocker, as evidenced by his +6.0 on run plays. Right now, only three tackles in the league grade out better than McKenzie.
The worst offensive player among Giants who play a significant number of downs? I bet you can guess this one. Left tackle David Diehl has a -11.5 rating, including a -9.7 in pass blocking. According to PFF, Diehl has given up five sacks, five quarterback hits and 10 pressures. The only tackles who grade lower are Denver's Zane Beadles and San Diego's Brandyn Dombrowski.
Other notable offensive numbers:
- Quarterback Eli Manning is +6.9. A good number, but it places him just 15th in the league.
- Ahmad Bradshaw is +5.2. A lot of that is his running, but he is also a surprising +3.4 as a pass blocker.
- Chris Snee grades out at +4.6, which places him sixth in the league among guards.
- Rich Seubert is playing better than I thought he could, and has a grade of +3.0 thus far.
- Hakeem Nicks has a +2.5, the best grade of the Giants wide receivers.
- Smith Smith has a -1.2, which is surprising. I wonder what the PFF analysts see that they don't like.
- I have been harping on the futility of the Giants using Madison Hedgecock, and his -8.6 grade bears out how badly he has been playing. Only Tennessee's Ahmard Hall (-10.4) grades worse among fullbacks. Houston's Vonta Leach, who the Giants will see Sunday and who they tried to sign a few years ago, has a league-best mark of +5.7.
Defense
So much for the Giants not having any linebackers who can play. The best two grades from PFF for Giants defenders belong to Keith Bulluck (+7.0) and Jonathan Goff (+6.5). Michael Boley is +1.1.
The worst Giant defender thus far? Aaron Ross, and it isn't even close. Ross has a -4.1 score, and he is the only defender other than Bruce Johnson (-0.4) to have a negative grade. I would guess teams have figured out that Ross is the guy to target in the secondary.
Among defensive lineman, Barry Cofield is +5.7, Chris Canty +5.1, Justin Tuck +3.9 and Osi Umenyiora is also +3.9.
In the secondary, Terrell Thomas is +5.5, Antrel Rolle +2.8, Corey Webster +2.4, Kenny Phillips + 1.9 and Deon Grant +1.7.
In limited snaps (just 53 in four games) No. 1 pick Jason Pierre-Paul is +0.4.
So, a lot to feel good about on the defensive side of the ball.
Special Teams
You would suspect these numbers would be ugly, and they are.
- Matt Dodge is -3.5, and only two punters are worse. One of those, Washington's Josh Bidwell, is being replaced this week.
- Lawrence Tynes has been better on kickoffs, this season, but still ranks -2.9. I think, though, that is largely due to poor coverage costing the Giants field position.
- Darius Reynaud is -2.5 combined on kickoff and punt returns. That is worst in the NFL, according to PFF.
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Pretty damn good analysis.
Just based on watching the first four games I would have said:
Snee is awesome, Diehl is not. Suebert has surprised.
Eli’s stats are average, but if the recievers step it up he’ll be tops in the league where he
belongs.
Ahamad is showing his worth as the number one back.
The defense as a unit has been legit.
Our special teams as a unit is as bad as it gets.
These stats reflect all of that to a T, very good.
Thirty-nine seconds left...Manning lobs it, Burress alone, touchdown New York.
by tito (eight and oh) on Oct 8, 2010 9:44 AM EDT reply actions
AB has been impressive
with his pass protection too. Aside from that one cut block penalty, which I think was BS anyway, he always gets his man. I think that’s why Jacobs has not been in either. I can remember at least 3 times that he has let a guy go right by without even chipping him. It’s almost like he has blinders on and didn’t even see him so it’s not even like he whiffs on the block. I don’t think he understands the protections sometimes.
Ugh!
Sorry, keep hitting the wrong keys! LOL
Anyway, I was going to say, who the hell has been worse? Hard to believe somebody has gotten off to a worse start than him.
Cofield
HE has been the #1 surprise to me this year. His burst off the line has been awesome.
I don’t like Tynes. He gets no air under the ball as well as being short on kickoffs. It exposes a weak ST crew. If any team needed a kicker who was strong on kick offs it’s us.
Reynaud has been a disappointment thus far. It reminds us that those desperation trades often back fire. That blow out of Hixon’s knee is really snowballing.
Credit Coughlin for demanding the RB’s know the blocking schemes before they get on the field. Compare him to Forte last week, who missed a ton of pick ups. Forte played from day one as a rookie and maybe that is why he is now having these troubles?
Eli deserves a better #. Those tip interceptions are killing his early numbers but I have to feel it will even out in the long run.
Special Teams
Just more evidence that special teams coordinator Tom Quinn needs to be fired immediately.
Very worried about the specials this week...
…THEY need to step up and make big plays. But I’ll take some solid play. I want to see more JPP blowing up the line.
by Last year in Sec 127 on Oct 8, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
special teams:
Step up and DON’T SUCK just doesn’t have the same ring to it
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Oct 8, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Cause & Effect
Maybe we stop wondering why Dodge is a mess and Reynaud, who used to be good in Minny, can’t get past the first guy… maybe its the COACHING. If the fish can can their ST coach after one debacle, why oh why oh why does Tom Quinn have a job?!?!?!
Rich Seubert is playing better than I thought he could, and has a grade of +3.0 thus far.
I’ve been saying this for the past 2-3 weeks…he looks rejuvenated out there, and I’m glad Ed posted his grade.
in regards to Steve Smith (aka No YAC….that’s what a buddy of mine calls him), he’s hasn’t had enough plays to outweigh the “No YAC” and the Drops.
"We need to get him some more game experience and see him make decisions on the run. But I think he's earned the opportunity." - Eli Manning
"If I'm curt, then I apologize" - Newman
Love Smith
but I agree with your buddy. He hardly gets any YAK.
"I don't do many endorsements. I'd rather get doused by Gatorade than bust my butt selling it." - Bill Parcells
This.
Thirty-nine seconds left...Manning lobs it, Burress alone, touchdown New York.
by tito (eight and oh) on Oct 9, 2010 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions
there's no room for him to get it
He’s usually running to a place that’ll have 2 or three defenders converge on you after the catch.
All you hear about is the past, the past... the past is the !@#$ing past, this is the present.
THIS IS TEMPORARY! A CHAMPIONSHIP IS PERMANENT
-Michael Strahan
This is true.
Thirty-nine seconds left...Manning lobs it, Burress alone, touchdown New York.
by tito (eight and oh) on Oct 9, 2010 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Glad Ross's grade got posted....not glad about the score....but
Fans should realize that getting 1 sack is not better than getting beat on 3rd down….
"We need to get him some more game experience and see him make decisions on the run. But I think he's earned the opportunity." - Eli Manning
"If I'm curt, then I apologize" - Newman
say what you want about McKenzie....but he can still run block with the best of 'em
Diehl….oh goodness….what an atrocious grade
"We need to get him some more game experience and see him make decisions on the run. But I think he's earned the opportunity." - Eli Manning
"If I'm curt, then I apologize" - Newman
Diehl
He looks like he stepped in the cement they poured for the new stadium before it dried this year.
Speed rushers are destroying him and the schedule has a bunch of similar match ups for him this year. Oh boy!
Seriously,
It looks like Diehl just kinda pats his guy. “Hey man, how you doing? Whoa, you leaving already? Alright, cya! We should do this again sometime.”
he should be in a hyperbaric chamber
"We need to get him some more game experience and see him make decisions on the run. But I think he's earned the opportunity." - Eli Manning
"If I'm curt, then I apologize" - Newman
he's Matt Dodge status....2nd worst at his respective position
it’s THAT bad
"We need to get him some more game experience and see him make decisions on the run. But I think he's earned the opportunity." - Eli Manning
"If I'm curt, then I apologize" - Newman
concrete sneakers
is what Diehl looks like he’s wearing. He is so slow against an outside speed rusher it isn’t even close. I think his other problem is that if he does try and cheat to the outside, he just gets ripped to the middle and either has to hold or let the guy go. He really has lost about 10 steps, not just a step.
concrete sneakers
good analogy
"I don't do many endorsements. I'd rather get doused by Gatorade than bust my butt selling it." - Bill Parcells
paging Shawn Andrews
Shawn Andrews to the LT spot immediately. Once again, Shawn Andrews please report to the LT position.
With the exception of the titans game
Kareem has been nice. I paid special attention to watching him against the bears and he did a fantastic job IMO all game long. Just gotta keep a cool head. It was odd to see him go off the deep end like that.. i dont think the veteran will let it happen again.. if he stays healthy he will be our top RUN blocker (with Sneeof course) this year…
pass blocking is another thing.. hes just decent at that i thinkl
by Plaxico Burress on Oct 8, 2010 10:26 AM EDT reply actions
Giants using Madison Hedgecock, and his -8.6 grade "bears" out how badly he has been playing
Funny you would use the word “bears” in that sentance because thats exactly who will be taking his spot
by Plaxico Burress on Oct 8, 2010 10:27 AM EDT reply actions
I think
he should get beared out of town, maybe they should pick up Jerome Johnson who was in preseason with them to have another fullback on the roster. They can keep Pascoe at FB, and also line him up in two tight ends format. BTW, Leach is a beast with the Texans, too bad we couldn’t sign him a couple years back. Also, what happened to those kickoffs in the preseason that were going into the end zone Mr. Tynes?
"No one played more for the Giants, while being coached less".
Ex-Giants coach, Steve Owens, talking about Mel Hein.
by Great Gatsby on Oct 8, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
What about JPP?
Sometimes they use a tackle as a 2nd TE. What if we put JPP in at fullback? That should scare the shit out of someone.
"The Cowboys Still SUCK"
can he run block?
then why the hell not… probly have to change numbers tho.
does anyone play both sides of the ball anymore? the last guy i can remember doing that is Prime Time Deon Sanders.
by Plaxico Burress on Oct 8, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Deion Branch
Think he picked off someone playing defensive back when he was with the pats
All you hear about is the past, the past... the past is the !@#$ing past, this is the present.
THIS IS TEMPORARY! A CHAMPIONSHIP IS PERMANENT
-Michael Strahan
Oh and vrabel
would routinely line up as a TE on goal line stands.
Like every reception he’s had was a 1 or 2 yard touch down
All you hear about is the past, the past... the past is the !@#$ing past, this is the present.
THIS IS TEMPORARY! A CHAMPIONSHIP IS PERMANENT
-Michael Strahan
Vrabel
I don’t think too many players have ever had this stat line for a career
9 receptions 9 TD’s 1.3 yards average… that’s awesome
Having Pascoe at fullback...
…gives our O some nice options. Predicting a goaline td for Pascoe. Bear gets lost in the pile, gets up, BEAR WIDE OPEN IN THE ENDZONE…..TOUCHDOWN GIANTS!!!! That was my Bob Papa.
by Last year in Sec 127 on Oct 8, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
the best bob papa, unfortunatly is,
Tiki Babaaaaa
by Plaxico Burress on Oct 8, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
end zone kickoffs
right?!?!?! every kickoff went in the endzone in preseason now he cant make it to the 10 yard line. very frustraing watching our D have to defend a short feild every single time tynes kicks off.
what about the FB that the jets cut? he wasnt bad at all… not John Conner (unless he got cut too then sign him!) … the other one. Leach is an absolute beast i would kill to have him on the team right now. hedgecock just aint doing it anymore. we need a hole clearer and right now hedgecock is a hole filler….. thats what she said
by Plaxico Burress on Oct 8, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
The Terminator
Conner is still with the Jets.
"I don't do many endorsements. I'd rather get doused by Gatorade than bust my butt selling it." - Bill Parcells
Richardson?
Isn’t he like 38? The man is, in NFL terms, a walking fossil. Does Hedgecock play ST? Cause Richardson sure as hell doesn’t.
I just want to point out to all the doom and gloomers out there
THAT DIEHL’S RATING IS ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE.
Week 5 vs: Mario Williams
Week 6: Kyle Vanden Bosch
Week 7: Demarcus Ware
9: Chris Clemons (4 sacks)
10: Ware again
11: Trent Cole
12: Aaron Kampman
13: Brian Orakpo
14: Jared Allen
15: Cole Again
16: Clay Matthews
17: Orakpo again
Good grief, I didn’t realize how bad it was going to be until I started going through the schedule. May God have mercy on us all.
The hope
is that Andrews will be able to play LT by then – he won’t be any worse than Diehl.
by G Fan in England on Oct 8, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
He would
be better, much more athletic, by the way, goody schedule, play Cowpokes twice in three weeks, before we play Philly or the ’Skins even once?
"No one played more for the Giants, while being coached less".
Ex-Giants coach, Steve Owens, talking about Mel Hein.
by Great Gatsby on Oct 8, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
that just depressed the fudge out of me (keeping it BBV clean)
Baetty needs to come back, or dehil needs to get better… something has to happen because eli wont be able to walk by the end of the year if deihl goes one on one with all those guys each week.
by Plaxico Burress on Oct 8, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Why
is Boley rated so poorly?
Not that KG knows what to do with the TE but how do Boss and Beckum grade out?
by G Fan in England on Oct 8, 2010 10:36 AM EDT reply actions
he has a (+) rating
so it’s not poor…
but if you must know….. surprisingly he’s had some trouble vs. the pass this year where he usually excels in that area (I’m sure he’ll turn that around though).
he’s also just not stout enough against the run, which hurts him
"We need to get him some more game experience and see him make decisions on the run. But I think he's earned the opportunity." - Eli Manning
"If I'm curt, then I apologize" - Newman
come to think of it Gfan....I think Boley was (-) Negative until this past weekend:
Check out this stat from PPF in regards to TE catching passes vs. the Giants:
Michael Boley (-1.1) has been the main culprit, giving up eight receptions on ten targets for 82 yards
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/10/03/pff-primer-bears-at-giants/
"We need to get him some more game experience and see him make decisions on the run. But I think he's earned the opportunity." - Eli Manning
"If I'm curt, then I apologize" - Newman
PFF > PPF
"We need to get him some more game experience and see him make decisions on the run. But I think he's earned the opportunity." - Eli Manning
"If I'm curt, then I apologize" - Newman
IF ya ask me
We got ourselves a team that is competitive, which is a step in the right direction over last season, and a team that is improving in almost all phases from week to week.
For me the whole thing will click once the O-line is set. Get Beatty back out there at LT, keep Pascoe in at FB worries diminish result improve.
Defensively, keep doing what they are doing. Now that Fewell is learning who he has at his disposal and the base of our Def is working the way he likes, the wrinkles will come and things will only get better once he can disguise a few plays
Have a feeling
that Beatty may not be coming back, why would they bring Whimpering Guy Whimper in for a look
see? Either O’Hara or Beatty will probably wind up on IR, if they go ahead and sign Whimper.
"No one played more for the Giants, while being coached less".
Ex-Giants coach, Steve Owens, talking about Mel Hein.
by Great Gatsby on Oct 8, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Goff
I don’t particularly like stats being used to measure a players abilities, but Goff got himself a positive rating on this board, and I fully agree.
Dude was everywhere v. the Bears, his performance was sort of lost in the excitement of 10 sacks
I think we may finally have a MLB worthy of starting each week
kids looking like the MLB no one thought he could be
except a few of us on this board… even still not many of us thought Goff was the answer. hes looking better and better every week… he looks strong, fast, mean, and he looks like he knows what hes doing which is a huge plus. Goff all day!
by Plaxico Burress on Oct 8, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Stats
Flyneer, I know that these ratings are not a perfect way to measure a player. For me, just another piece of useful data to confirm or rebut what my eyes are telling me.
BTW, Linval Joseph had 7 snaps vs. Chicago according to PFF
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/10/07/re-focused-week-4-bears-at-giants/
"We need to get him some more game experience and see him make decisions on the run. But I think he's earned the opportunity." - Eli Manning
"If I'm curt, then I apologize" - Newman
patience to a fault
Looking at these numbers I give high marks for TC sticking up for special team coach and for the players on the special teams. He has not thrown anyone under the bus and he has absorbed much of the flack thrown toward those players and the special team coach. I hope his patience is at an end if this group ( special teams) does not perform well against Houston. If they stink it up again and TC does nothing then he is at fault for not pulling the plug on this group and letting the season go down the drain. He has givin his punter,punt returner,special teams coach and coverage guys enough time to fix the horror show we have been watching. One more bad game and TC had better do the right thing,if he doesn’t…….its ALL ON HIM.
Tynes has been better on kickoffs?
He got one into the endzone last week, but that was only after a penalty moved him up.
Simple way to help the O-Line.
Get to the line of scrimmage earlier. There’s at least three or four snaps during the course of a game where the play clock is at zero, giving the d-line an advantageous release (this does not include our obligatory delay of game penalty). In fact, Jacob’s fumble last week was in large part due to an opposing tackle in the backfield disrupting Jacob’s focus – and this snap, if memory serves, happened at zero.
If Gilbride can’t quicken his decision making, perhaps the scoreboard operators can shut off the play clock behind Eli so the d-line can’t jump the snap.
by hedgecockblocker on Oct 8, 2010 12:23 PM EDT reply actions
Eli's grade
doesn’t surprise me. Too many drops and INTs (not his fault). He didn’t play well vs Colts and the 1st half vs Bears.
"I don't do many endorsements. I'd rather get doused by Gatorade than bust my butt selling it." - Bill Parcells
Good analysis...Very interesting...
I am also going to start calling Steve Smith “Smith Smith” for the remainder of the season. This was a typo that will make my life better. :)
Or at least will give me something to do as I am forced to watch the sure-to-be-exciting Bucs-Bengals matchup. I hate NFL coverage maps.
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