Talking draft, just a little
by Ed Valentine on Jan 9, 2010 9:10 AM EST
in New York Giants News
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PrintI won't begin full New York Giants draft coverage for a while yet. There is plenty of time, and plenty of other things to do first. But, this morning we have to talk draft just a bit.
That's because our friends over at SB Nation's draft site, Mocking the Draft, have posted a couple of stories that should grab the attention of Giants fans.
First, MTD posted a look at Giants team needs heading into the draft. I have a couple of MAJOR bones to pick with their analysis.
Here is the first MTD statement that practically made me spit up my breakfast.
"They have a lot of money invested in the defensive line so using a pick there might be a waste."
WHAT? Because they spent a lot of money there last off-season they don't need to try and improve the position this off-season? Did you guys watch Fred Robbins, Rocky Bernard and Chris Canty play? Or, at least, wear Giants uniforms? I'm not sure you can call what they did actually "playing."
Do you understand that they may have a difficult time keeping Barry Cofield, who is (sadly) their best defensive tackle? Did you remember that Jay Alford missed the season with knee surgery, and we have no clue what to expect from him in 2010?
To say the Giants should not "waste" a pick to improve possibly the weakest position on the team simply because they "have a lot of money invested" is nonsense.
Besides, last I checked NFL contracts are not guaranteed.
My second complaint is with a comment made about offensive tackle William Beatty, the Giants second-round pick a year ago. MTD says Beatty "hasn’t completely blown away the coaches."
I'm not sure where that comes from. The Giants never hesitated to play Beatty as either an extra tight end, or at tackle when injuries struck. If they didn't have confidence in him he would not have been on the field. Not to mention the fact that he played well in his limited opportunities.
MTD also came out a couple of days ago with its first Mock Draft. Many of you will be happy to note that MTD founds Alabama MLB Rolando McClain sitting there for the Giants, and snatched him up.
I won't argue with that pick at all if that is what ultimately happens. We will get into this in much more depth later, but I see DT and MLB as needs 1 and 1a for the Giants. I won't complain either way.
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i dont think any D would be a waste
but of all of the positions i would say the D line should be lastly addressed. I would say the D line is far from the weakest postion on the D, look at the secondary or the linebackers? I guess they all look weak but I dont think the D line should be the sore thumb that sticks out with this bunch.
oops I crapped my pants!
D-Line
The thing is that a good line can cover up our weak secondary. We haven’t had a good secondary in years but we’ve still been a devastating defense. That was Reese’s plan this season. Add Canty & Bernard to the line to add some more depth alongside the returning Osi, and the line’s rotation keeps them fresh all game long. With our D-Line dominating, it would help cover up a weak LB corps and secondary. That plan could have worked had Canty and Bernard lived up to their contracts. Personally I’m not opposed to this idea at all. I’d certainly love some new secondary players, but I’m not keen on drafting another linebacker who will pretty much be playing as though its his first year. Goff is just getting his feet wet and Sintim never had a start. I’d prefer we spend our time focusing on other positions and at worst pick up someone in the FA. Goff & Sintim still have too much potential to overload that position.
What about safety?
The Giants were thin at safety to start last season (sadly, it’s already last season for us Giants fans) and we see how hard it was to get someone good during the middle of the season. With the uncertainty of KP’s arthritic knee, the Giants can’t be thin at the position again. I suppose they could try free agency but I’ve seen many mock drafts saying that the Giants will go for Earl Thomas of Texas because McClain will be gone. Denver is a threat to take him.
My take on our S and DT's
Like you said with KP, it’s uncertain of his future. So we cannot go in the direction with CC, Johnson and Rouse as our only remaining S’s. There is absolutely no playmakers amongst them. Not to mention that CC will probably not be re-signed. Preferrably, i agree too, we should look at FA for a quality veteran WITH coverage skills. Also, without question, we need to use the draft for a starter-quality player. We saw what happened without proper depth!
With our DL, lets assume that an off-season will allow everyone that returns, to be rejuvenated and at 100%. This includes our DE’s: Tuck, Osi, Kiwi and Tollefson; our DT’s: Alford, Canty and Cofield (if modestly re-signed). Though they collectively played poorly, the talent is still there, unlike our S’s!
just wondering
since denver had the same record as us and beat us, shouldn’t we have a higher pick than them? i don’t understand why they would be picking 4 spots ahead of us
They have the Bears pick.
Cutler trade remember? They actually gave up a 1st rounder for that fool.
Denver would have another one, but they gave up their own for a midget CB in last year’s 2nd round.
Hopefully there will be dumb teams that allow the Giants to make moves.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 10, 2010 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
Safety at #1
perhaps.
LB? No. Good evaluators of talent SHOULD be able to locate solid NFL linebackers at rounds three and lower. Of course Kehl, Goff, Wilkerson are questionmarks still.
DT. Yes. What Ed said.
MLB
I dont think the giants should waste their first round pick on mcclain when they can easily grab Penn State MLB Sean Lee in a later round. He was hurt this year but when the kid plays he is easily the best MLB in the game and is a perfect fit for the Giants defense. Also Strong Safety is to big a need to not grab one in the first round.
Oh GREAT
Just what the Giants need, another defender who has the possibility of being hurt… Take McClain if they think he is the BEST LB available at our pikc, Not take a LB in the first round is the dman reason we have no stinking LBs… We need beast not Servicable Little White Boys… Sick of them.. Guy is 6-2 236pds.. MLB ??? Trust me that aint happening anymore…
In football, you can always maim a person if you wanted to. -L.T.
If McClain is available at 15, then take him.
Sean Lee is coming off an ACL tear. I don’t see how you can rely on him to be your future MLB.
I agree that the Giants should get a stud safety. Monte Kiffin told John Lynch that Eric Berry will be a no doubt, Hall of Famer. I don’t know why I even mentioned him because the Giants aren’t sniffing him. I just felt like dreaming. Taylor Mays is terrible in coverage and we just went through that this past season. No one wants to see that again. I suppose Earl Thomas is the safe bet for FS but he’s not an SS.
At DT, there are many options:
Dan Williams (Tenn.)
Jay Ross (East Car.)
Brian Price (UCLA)
Jared Odrick (Penn State) – his stock fell due to arrest in March
Arthur Jones (SU) – his stock fell due to surgery
Vince Oghobaase (Duke)
Some of these guys are very good players that the Giants could get late first or early second round. If there is a stud available at 15, then go for him. However, there are options later on at DT. There aren’t many options later on at safety.
I think that's a good value pick for Price.
However, I don’t think McClain at 15 is wasting a first round pick when the LBs haven’t distinguished themselves at all.
Darryl Washington
I’ve said it a few times, I think he’s has every bit of the talent that McClain has. I don’t know where he’s projected to go but if McClain is gone i would not be suprised or upset to see us take this guy in the1st…. or preferably the 2nd.
Agreed
On the face of it the draft is deep at DT, and you would think the Giants could get a good one in the second or third round, even. But, really, as long as the draft is heavily defense oriented I am not going to complain.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 9, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
but don't forget
at least one more guy to back up the OL. If we can pick up another guy in beatty’s league for future potential, it would be a strong pickup
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 11, 2010 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
You know Ed
the problem with some of these “experts” is they have very superficial knowledge of the Giants as compared to guys like you and the rest of us who live for this team so they they see they spent money at DT and Beaty did not start so they make those assumptions without watching many Giants games nor reading what the local beat writers say.
It’s like durring a telecast when you hear Moose Johnson or Aikman say something about the Giants that was an issue a year or two ago with the team and bring it up like it’s relevant today and you just want to throw something at them.
One thing about DT though, If Cofield comes back and they have him and Canty along with Alford the Giants might not make it priority #1 in the draft thinking all 3 guys will be healthier in 2010 and that 2009 was more injuries and bad luck than anything. Considering most of the LB’s and Safteys on this team would make a nice UFL team they might adress those positions first BUT they do tend to put more stock in D-line than LB or S thats for sure.
That trend has got to stop
We have been drafting DL earlier in recent drafts while taking LB’s in the middle rounds. It’s catching up to them. This goes without saying about Ross and KP in the first too, (though they’re injured, bad luck). If the Giants can land a can’t miss LB, they shouldn’t hesitate. Though there are a few in FA that could be signed too, which is another trend the Giants usually do!
these experts at mocking the draft
say that injuries and LEGAL TROUBLES will be the reason for not having AP back and drafting McClain
seriously legal troubles?
right on Landeta
I don’t see DL as a big issue, honestly. There’s undeniable talent. I still like Tuck, Kiwi, Osi at ends, and I could see Cofield, Canty, and Alford getting the job done at DT. Definitely dump Bernard though, that guy is invisible.
If I was Jerry Reese… well the Giants’d be perennnial basement dwellers, but beyond that, I’m focusing on the secondary as the biggest issue, LBs second, OL third, RB 4th, and DL fifth.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 11, 2010 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
LEADERSHIP
What the Giants need is a great leader: Tim Tebow. He’ll put some fire into those players, coaches, management, and owners. Forget that Manning will be the QB; use Tebow in other positions. He will still be around in the middle of the first round. Let’s get some character into the Giants’ team.
congratulations
I think you just won the “most ridiculous suggestion of 2010” award, and it’s only January 9!
Draft Tim Tebow with the 15th pick? Because he’s a leader? I really, really, really hope this was a sarcastic post.
2009 Did Not Happen
lol
why don’t we just trade up to the first pick and take Dr. Phil. He’ll be able to smooth out any fueds going on in the locker room
He DID play football in his youth
I say we pull the trigger on this one
I don't need birthdays. I buy myself everything I need and because of my drinking its often a surprise
Always remeber about the draft
a lot of teams priorities change depending on what happens durring Free Agencey. Some of these holes, LB, S or DT could be adressed in FA so the needs to the team can shift come draft day.
Free Agency
Of course. And it is very difficult this season because we don’t know yet whether it will be a capped or uncapped year. The way I understand it that will make a huge difference in which players are actually eligible for free agency. So, we really just don’t know.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 9, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Yes that is a very good point...makes FA very foggy at this point..Do you think they'll make
…some sort of a decision before the draft?..If the league doesn’t then the draft has to be focussed on as more key than ever..Not so much because our organization historically ever go after many FAs, but because the draft could be more competitive amongst teams and the picks.
FA
They have to make a decision by March, I believe.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 9, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Tebow
They’ll be talking about Tebow five years from now, let’s see how many of the others will be around then.
yea...
they’d say he was the biggest waste of the 15th overall pick and the reason why Jerry Reese got fired.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 9, 2010 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
*licks finger, holds up in air*
Yup. Thats a burn
I don't need birthdays. I buy myself everything I need and because of my drinking its often a surprise
MLB/DT/S
Are all needs in FA and the draft. This D is weak up the gut. A big strong offensive guard or tackle with a nasty streak is desperately needed too.
McClain
If he is still there at 15 we should take him
He was a proven leader at Bama
and a big reason why they won the BCS
He has the ability to make a huge impact like Orakpo or Cushing
and if we keep AP he would benefit from his knowledge whoever the DC ends up being
and not to plagerize i think he could “Step up and make big plays”
no plagiarism
in the pending absence of the original SUaMBP, we all have to fill in the blanks by doing just that
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 11, 2010 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
Rolando McClain is probably a pipe dream...
but its a good, purple haze pipe dream. McClain is for real…possibly the next Urlacher at worst and possibly the best MLB prospect since P.Willis.
Yes..you should be able to find a starting caliber MLB in the later rounds or undrafted…but they won’t ever posses this kid’s smarts. And he’s 6"4 258lbs too. And runs a 4.5. And is quick.
For real, I dunno how a team could pass on McClain..IMO he’s right up there with Berry and Suh are far as impact defenders go.
Also..yea, I dunno where the hell that poster was going with on the D-Line thing. I’d go Safety, LB then DL…but probably DL and LB are interchangable.
Brian Price is a Senderick Ellis type (remember him…top 10 pick to the Saints out of USC). Actually..if Price played on USC…him being a top 10 pick would be a no brainer at this point.
He’s probably right up there with Gerald McCoy for that #2DT in the draft..maybe better, cuz Price doesn’t have an entire front 7 destined to be in the NFL, like McCoy was surrounded with at Oklahoma.
McClain, Price, Earl Thomas, Morgan Burnett.
Those should be the 4 they look at in round one.
Round 2? Possibly…whoever falls to them from these 4 (unless both safeties are on the board at both spots).
But they should get Ryan Matthews, RB Fresno State. Ultra productive (…that sounded too Kiper’ish…), 5"11 220lbs, runs a 4.5 and is a workhorse back.
They need to replenish this running game as much as any other single position. Matthews would be a good 2nd rounder.
N8 !
Johnson and Brown
I liked what I saw from Gartrell in the brief chances he had and I loved what I saw from Brown before he blew his Achilles. I wouldn’t mind taking an RB in the 4th or later, but we have too many needs that need to be addressed early on… S, MLB, OL, DT.
Put me down for Spikes or McLain in the first.
First offf...
Spikes…he’s slow and not all that quick. Basically, he’s a younger, bigger (less fat too) version of AP. I mean that’s pretty good…but personally I’d rather go for a different type. Someone who’s very fast for a MLB?
Greg Jones from MSU would be a good 2nd rounder for that idea.
As for RB…Gartrell, I dunno how you can say you can count on him to do anything. And Brown…achilles injury is possibly the worst for a RB..so who knows there.
Running back is a lot like safety. Even the guys who are probably coming back, there’s some pretty big questions. Jacobs and Bradshaw…knee surgery for Jake and all sorts of foot and ankle operations for AB.
Yea..they can come back. But will they ever be the same?
What if a new, young RB like Matthews would be all they need?
With Jacobs and Bradshaw, they need a 3rd RB in that mix cuz those 2 are gonna get hurt if they are the only 2..and probably will anyway.
Out of Ware, Gartrell and Brown..I think there’s a chance that zero of those guys could be back, and really…I wouldn’t shed a tear if they drafted someone like Matthews..or if they are really lucky, Jahvid Best.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 9, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Best
I’m not sure where you think Best is going to go but after the combine he’ll move up the board. We’ve got needs on the D that far exceed my concern for a RB. RBs are a dime a dozen unless you’ve got a bonified stud (see Peterson or C. Johnson). The Bshaw, Jacobs, Brown combo will be fine with me if we get a late round RB that doesn’t pan out.
by NY Football Giants on Jan 9, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Best..
I’ve seen completely left out of the 2nd round…
but yea, I think he’ll be the 2nd or 1st RB off the board, so he’s really just wishful thinking…kinda like McClain.
I dunno why anyone says RB is not a need…Andre Brown, if he was a rookie..would be a concern. He’s not only still essentially a rookie…but the Achilles injury could be as much or more of a knock to his career then Phillips arthritic knees.
Bradshaw and Jake..for as good as they are…are NOT to be relied on. Yes..they’ll get surgery..but the way they run (or should run….) they’ll get hurt.
They need a 3rd back. Not just any 3rd back, but one that is as good or hopefully better then those 2.
FA is gonna play a part in it of course.
I think the best safeties are in the draft, no FA. But there could be plenty of LB’s and DT’s in FA.
I don’t think its wise to go after a RB in FA either…so drafting one…in the 2nd round, especially if its J.Best or R.Matthews, would be perfect.
Best is more of a complementary back anyway, tho yea..he may go earlier.
Ryan Matthews might be the most complete back in the draft. IF he’s there in round 2…they should pounce.
N8 !
The running game
If teams continue to disrespect our passing game and stuff the box then no one that we draft will be able to fix the problem. It will be up to KG to read that and allow the highest paid player in the league to throw the ball (please refer to San Diego and Philly games. That 3rd and 5 draw to Bshaw still makes me bitter) We didn’t lose one game because of our RBs. Am I pissed about Jacobs performance? Yes! Do I think we can average 4 yards a carry with Bshaw, Jake and Brown next year? Yes! I think that is good enough if we can move our 30th ranked defense to 15th by building through the draft and FA. I wouldn’t mind picking up a game breaking type RB like Holliday out of LSU (I have no idea if or where he is projected) who could also flip the field on special teams if we can get him later on. A third RB is not that big of a concern for me. I think we were spoiled in 08. That cannot be expected every year.
by NY Football Giants on Jan 9, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
re: Gartrell
Gartrell, I dunno how you can say you can count on him to do anything
you can count on him to have the longest hair on the team
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 9, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
time will tell...
…all of us on BBV would love it if he proved himself capable of doing just that. We gotta start giving our #3 back more touches first…
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 9, 2010 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
What the Giants need
O-line. Maybe a starter short. Assuming Beatty takes a tackle slot, Diehl can go either left guard or right tackle. Adding best LG or RT available allows the Giants to have Siebert and Kareem around as great backups at the end of their careers while the Giants solidify the O-line for years to come.
D-tackle. Need another healthy body in the middle.
DB. Too thin. I have not given up on what we have, I think this past year was worst case scenario for injuries and players on their own. But Giants were thin going in, and could use a young, potential future starter at both S and CB.
Fullback. Hedgecock is wearing. A great blocker with good hands would help the offense is so many ways.
Thats it. Use free agency to fill where you can’t draft.
Places I don’t think the Giants need much, where it seems many do:
DE. They have 3 starters, I’d like to see Osi with an extra year after surgery and how he performs before I write him off. If he has anything left, or is still a probowler, we should see it next year. He won’t hold anything back, so we’ll see all his cards. Tuck should also be healed up. And Tollefson is an excellent 4th.
LB. They have loads of young guys who were drafted, and barely saw the field. Silly to draft over them, unless an outstanding surething is around. Give Goff and Sintim the chance to join Boley, with Blackburn backing up, and the other fellows, and see how it works. To me, this smacks of WR last offseason, where most were panicked, yet the young guys they had were given the chance, some stepped up, some didn’t, but now its a strength.
BTW enough 3-4 nonsense. This team is SO not staffed to play that way.
AGREE
I believe the first round pick has to be invested in OT, cause the best ones are all gone early, and solidifying that is huge for eli and the running game. I believe other positions are easier to adress later in the draft
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jan 9, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Will Beatty...
says you can get that later on too…
If its the BPA..then why not.
But this is a deep OT draft too…just as deep for OG…and very deep for OC.
I’d like the Giants to get 2 from the above…
N8 !
Absolutely Disagree
I have no idea how anyone could watch this season – then say we need to draft an OT in the first round? Really, are you kidding?
If you said we were going to use EVERY draft pick we had on the defensive side of the ball, I’d say you were alot closer to being right than wrong.
Defense wins championships. We couldn’t win a Pop Warner championship with this defense. The OL is fine, and is being maligned in my opinion.
the running game was atrocious this year..regardless
if the numbers say it was average.
Of course, S, DT or LB should be higher..maybe even RB (Spiller!), but if JR has a OT rated as a top 10 pick and no one else…why not?
Drafting for the defense…really, that’s not realistic to think they’ll be the heart and soul of it in 2010 anyway.
Defense wins championships of course…a great running game can chew up the clock and help that defense (always want the offense on the field to end the game.
The running game was a big problem this year….that needs to be address and it may need a 1st round OL as much as the defense needs anyone.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 10, 2010 8:34 AM EST up reply actions
Defense, defense, defense, defense
This draft has to be all about defense.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 10, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I hope JR doesn't see that...
yea, defense would be nice…
but like last year, drafting mostly offense..killed the supposedly A-OK defense didn’t it?
Mix it up.
The running game for some reason is getting a free pass…but its just as big a culprit IMO as the defense (burn clock..less time for the D to see the field…ice wins..all a that good stuff).
They need to draft at least one OL and at least one RB.
Watching the Cardinals, Ravens, Cowpokes and even Jets…its evident that you need at least 2, maybe 3 strong runners..
Jake and AB can be that…but going into the offseason they are just TOO banged up to expect it.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 10, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
The D is already on the field for a short time
give up a quick touchdown and back to the sidelines.
But…. that isn’t a problem this year, our offense was on the field for the 10th longest time iirc
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 11, 2010 2:50 AM EST up reply actions
meh...
stats like that don’t tell you a whole lot.
The Giants D, when rated by the yards per game thing, was right at 16…not horrible…tho it was horrible.
THey had no running game whatsoever in 2009. They need to fix that.
Jacobs and Bradshaw are too banged up right now and get too banged up over the season to rely on them only. Danny Ware didn’t do anything. Gartrell Johnson….who knows. Andre Brown..who knows and he’s coming off a major injury.
They’d better be drafting at least one OL, and at least one RB.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 11, 2010 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
I don't care who we get
as long as it’s a gamechanging defender. That’s really all we need. Whether its safety, linebacker, or DT, we need a mean SOB with some heart.
I’m up for MaClain
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
+ 1
i dunno maybe I just like the colors
by Mr.Williams on Jan 9, 2010 12:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
as long as it's...
a gamechanging defender
a.k.a., a guy who can step up and make big plays?
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 9, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
I was trying to expand our vocabulary
but that works too
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
in the end, it all comes back to one thing...
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 9, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Getting more points than the other team when time runs out?
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
you never draft rb before the third round!
check history ,its the1 spot on the field u can draft later n get n impact player.draft is deep at DT. so go MLB 1st. DT 2nd. sign a safety darren sharper would be nice.or you can blow this up n sign seymour 4 DT. he can disrupt the pocket. can i dream?
the problem is...
2010 is a big need for one.
Bradshaw may have taken a step forward this year…but he got too banged up. Jacobs..may return to normal…he may be shot.
Brown…no one knows.
I doubt DJ/Danny Ware is back at all.
I just made an argument that there’s potentially not a single RB on the team that will be any good in 2010…considering Jacobs and AB’s surguries..it could happen.
Yea..you COULD find a RB in the 3rd round or below…but that’s a big risk to take if there is a big need for one, which there is.
The Giants took players like Jacobs, AB and Andre Brown, where they were, because they weren’t a big need at the time.
They had RB’s in place already.
I don’t think they can assume they have any RB’s in place at this point.
Yea..they should probably go with defense in the first 3 rounds.
But you can’t ignore needs. They should go BPA in the first 3 rounds, at their needs of course.
Nothing should be taken over anything.
If CJ Spiller is the top rated player on their board in the first round….take him. If a safety or DT is..take him.
N8 !
Not a big need
Running RBs are not hard to find… those that catch and block, that’s a bit more.
Jacobs and Bradshaw are hurt but coming back, Johnson is back as is Brown.
But you can always get a running RB.
Look what happened to the Packers the season they made a trade for the Giants castoff RB (Grant)… and how many yards he got.
by Joshua4Giants on Jan 9, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Unless a guy like Spiller or Best is availble to the G-men
they could take an RB in the 4th or 5th round that might help and who knows maybe thay can sign a low level FA that can contribute. The beatuy of the RB position is you can get a guy cheap that can be an impact guy for one or two years then move on. With all of the defensive issues the team has I say if they add a few RB’s it should be that way rather than a huge priority. They can band aid the RB position in 2010 and still be effective, the D needs to fixed for the long term.
Could we pay Seymour the salary he commands?
He was the highest paid player in the NFL a few years ago.
I think Seymour would like to get out of Oakland at all costs..Remember..
His response when asked about being traded there?..He said: “Well the weather is nice”..We could probably get him for Carr and maybe ’ol senile Davis will toss us a draft pick or two.
I don't want Seymour
I don’t want Seymour… He has a lot of miles on that body. I think people fail to realize that the DL would have been much more effective if we had a good crop of LB’s CB’s and Ss. The only defensive players (LB, CB, S) worth keeping are Kenny Phillips, Aaron Ross and Terrell Thomas. Corey Webster is an adequate corner but has a tendency of struggling against big time, athletic receivers… (i.e D. Jackson, B. Marshall). We have a couple of linebackers who could be used on special teams but they are adequate at best.
10 Draft
We need a) SS b) MLB c) coverage OLB d) another safety e) punter
by ChicagoGiantsFan on Jan 9, 2010 12:48 PM EST reply actions
+1
I pointed out the other day that he is going on 31, with probably 2-3 good years left, max. No sense in overpaying for that. If we go the FA route for a DT, we need to land someone who is going to step up and make plays consistently over the long haul…
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 9, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Don't know how I got shippings out of Spillers!!..but if he's sitting on the vine we have to snag him..
Doubt he’ll be there when we pick though..it would take some miracle magic for JR to pull that off…
I am not giving up on Webster..I think he'll work out fine..
I am more concerned about KP and that injury..We have to address getting a SS..Our backs are in the corner at that position..
Rolando McClain is a long shot
McClain probably wont get past Denver’s 12th pick. He’s not quite Patrick Willis but he is a leader and seems to be a high character guy. I think we get lucky if McClain or Joe Haden are still avail when we pick. We probably end up with Taylor Mays or Earl Thomas.
Terrence Cody impressed me in the BSC champ game. He is huge and can seriously upgrade our run-stopping game. Maybe we can trade down for someone’s pick in the 20’s and a 4th or 5th round pick for our 15th overall.
In JR, I trust. Outside of Ozzie, JR is the best at evaluating talent imo
LarryHarryCarlPepper
In any scenario that perhaps
In no particular order that McClain, Spiller, Haden or Thomas are gone for any reason, the Giants should trade down. But if they’re trading down at least 5 spots, i wouldn’t do for a 4th, but a third. If a team is willing to go up 5 spots in the middle of the first, then they see and want something. You got to figure, that fourth rounder would be somewhat later in the round and the value can start to diminish.
Maybe Spikes?
The guy I huge. I watched sports jobs and he dwarfed jr seau last night. Also was the leader of the D for Florida.
they don't need another slow as molasses LB.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 11, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
He's just not all that fast.
He’s big…probably better suited for ILB in a 3-4, but he’s not quick.
He may even run a nice 40, like 4.6-4.7, but its meaningless.
His quickness and coverage abilities are huge questionmarks. You really wanna go with someone like that?
He’s a name. A college FB star. People may even say he’s Rey Maualuga again and teams will pass on him…..but Rey Rey’s good cuz the other LB’s are faster then him.
Giants need speed. Getting someone with questions about his quickness…they should stay very far away.
Greg Jones, MLB Michigan State. Fast, quick….sure tackler. Should be a perfect 2nd rounder.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 11, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
McClain is slow too actually :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miJwMCgaxKo
look at this. I can’t imagine this guy being good in a 4-3
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 11, 2010 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
He ran down Jeff Demps from the middle of the field to the sideline.
..for a MLB that’s damn near impossible, and he did it.
I dunno where you saw he was slow…that guy’s all over the field. I really hope the GM’s from 1-14 see that and think that tho..that would be great.
And I took the time to go and look at the Brandon Spikes one. The only think I could think of was how much he looked like AP last year. I dunno if I want that.
McClain is a different sort of MLB. If he’s there they gotta take him.
Its really tough to get a great deal from these videos tho…Florida and UA’s defense are so much better then any single offense they play. I’d like to see Bama’s D go against Bama’s O. That would probably be the real natty champ and a good measure for McClain.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 11, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
Taylor Mays
The G-Men should draft this kid if he is available. I doubt he will still be around at the 15th pick but if he is, we should grab him. Safety is the thinnest position on the team right now and CC Brown and Aaron ROuse will be gone next year. I think they will address the LB and Safety position via free agency for some leadership but also look in the draft for those positions.
GO NY GIANTS!!
Taylor Mays has Roy Williams
from Oklahoma written all over him. Big Physical guy that can hit but will struggle in the passing game. We need guys that can cover and have range.
KP was that guy but he’s up in the air and even when he does come back, will he have the same speed and range? Not sure he might be better suited to be a strong saftey when he comes back if he never recaptures his speed so they need a cover athletic guy. Mays struggled a lot in the passing game at USC.
Bad Year
I think most will say that he simply had a bad year this season. I agree he had struggled in coverage but I believe there is enough promise there for them to grab him.
GO NY GIANTS!!
He's always sucked in coverage.
Him and Brandon Spikes should’ve came out last year.
I wish they did, cuz they’re both still gonna be in the discussion for the Giants pick..and the Giants should stay away.
Roy Williams ran a 4.5 you know…and while Mays will probably run faster, JR should still stay away.
…that is, unless the plan is to move him to MLB a la Urlacher.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 10, 2010 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
The kid got scared
he crumbled this year when he was expected to be the leader at USC. ESPN College Gameday did a think on him where he wasnt hitting but rather sticking his arms out there like he was afraid of contact. Oregon St attacked him all day.
2nd rounder.
Mays...
might be available for the Giants 2nd round pick.
Unless they’re thinking that he could bulk up and become a LB…they should pass then too.
He’s a waste for the Giants. IF they wanted a run stuffer as a safety…just re-sign Aaron Rouse.
N8 !
NYG 2nd round picks do better than their 1st
All these guys were drafted by the Gints in the 2nd round :
Strahan 93, Sehorn 94, Toomer 96, Tiki 97, Osi 03, Snee 04, Webster 05. Beatty, Sintem and Terrell Thomas all show promise.
LarryHarryCarlPepper
The 2nd round will be filled with great talent
If the Giants’ preferred players aren’t available at 15, then they should trade down and get more picks for the 2nd round.
Denver's Picks
I have a sneaky suspicion that Denver is going to take Tebow. You heard it here guys. I have a feeling that he is going to go a lot earlier than most people expect. Internally, I don’t believe Broncos brass thinks that Kyle Orton can win a Super Bowl. I expect him to go to Denver with one of those early picks.
The Giants should try to move up a few picks if possible.
by ChicagoGiantsFan on Jan 10, 2010 10:27 AM EST reply actions
No, no and no
No to trading up. With the issues on defense, the Giants need more picks, especially earlier the better. Considering DT, LB and S, OL and RB could also be considerations. Thats 5 positions right there and if they could pick up an extra third, that would be four picks in the top 100. Just that extra pick could go along way when entering the later rounds and who they pick!
wait...
why should the Giants move up cuz the Broncos might get Tebow?
If anything..the Giants need to be trading back.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 10, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Has anyone else noticed what I consider to be simply poorer writing over at MTD?
I don't need birthdays. I buy myself everything I need and because of my drinking its often a surprise
Safety First
All sophisticated GMs (and JR is certainly one) seem to adhere to “value” over need if it’s a close call (obvious exceptions, for example: Giants had to draft a WR in Round 1 last year). Having said that, they also prioritize need. I know Ed is big on drafting a DT, and we went back and forth on this a couple weeks back, but i still side with the “Safety first” crowd. Two reasons:
1. While I know this is open to debate, my evolving perception is a dominant safey is the most important player on the D side of the ball. They can impact a game in so many ways: lining up all over, blitzing, ball hawking. Look at Pitt with Troy P out, New England in the years that Rodney Harrison was out, Indy without Bob Sanders. Look at how Adrian Wilson gave Eli fits in the AZ game. I know an argument can be made for a dominant pass rusher, but even that type can be somewhat neutralized by double teams, shorter drops, etc.
2. When your safeties suck, as ours did, there is simply no ability to compensate. every other position can be compensated for in some respect (a weak DT can be helped out by a strong MLB, a weak corner can be helped out by a safety, a weak pash rush can be beefed up by fast LBs who can blitz). But, in the modern NFL, where most of the successful teams run just enough to be balanced, but really threaten you through the air, there is no place to make up for weak safeties. Unless you have two Revis’ at corner, teams with burners (like our good friends in Philly) are going to beat your corners from time to time, and if your safeties can’t cover, you wind up seeing DJack catch a 60 yd touchdown every game. We simply can’t let it happen again.
So, back to where i started: if the talent level is roughly equivalent, gotta go safety first. I’d also prioritize MLB over DT, but I think that really does come down to a value proposition.
by NorthwestFan on Jan 10, 2010 1:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Welcome to the
Safety first club, Northwest, not just in terms of recognizing need in next draft, but also in seeing that it has morphed into the most important poition on the D (SS, that is.)
I agree on the safety thing...
tho, the reality is on those DJAX 60yd bombs…..there isn’t a safety in the league that can cover a WR for 4-5 seconds.
Safety probably should be a need..simply cuz there really aren’t any on the roster.
But the pass rush needs to be fixed.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 10, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
we could use a guy like Dawkins
to lay a cheap shot on a defenseless receiver who doesn’t even have the ball, to end his season and send him elsewhere. Ike Hilliard.
If we can just find someone to do this to Desean Jackson, it will improve our matchups with the Eggs.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 11, 2010 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
lol
we don’t want to resort to crippling the other team. What are, eagle fans?
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
I'm sorry, I was cheering for a neck injury to a hall of fame receiver...
what’s that you said? Here’s a flare gun, fire it next time before you talk to get my attention.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 12, 2010 7:52 AM EST up reply actions
Hey don't point that down there! That's Santa Claus!
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Pass rush...," etc
Absolutely. In terms of priorities: S, #1; DT, #2. The priorities can be addressed via FA or the draft.
they should address either with FA.
I wouldn’t mind if they shored it up enough to where they don’t have to draft a S or a DT.
IMO it just makes no sense to completely ignore things.
Yes, the defense sucked. But the running game sucked too.
The only reason the pass O doesn’t need anything, is cuz they essentially get 2 draft picks with Barden and Beckum for 2010.
They could use upgrades all over the field. OL and RB are a big need too..the Giants couldn’t run for their life and Eli was running for his life too entirely too much.
In the draft…best player available who is not a WR, QB or TE.
DB, RB, OL, DT, LB…even DE (can you reasonably expect the 3 amigo’s to be any good…they weren’t).
Whoever’s highest on the board when they pick..needs to be picked. But they need to not skip over any of these positions.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 10, 2010 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
I know i'm dreaming
But if we were to land any combination of Atogwe, Bethea, Dansby, Morrison, Rudd or Ryans, that would help tremendously for what we could do in the draft. That would be alot less focus on S and LB.
It would almost seem to put the Giants back into the position of best available player other than, like you said QB, WR and TE.
We could use a:
RB, yes as injuries are frequent
OL, yes as we need to add youth to go along with Beatty
DT, yes and no need for explanation
CB, yes only for my personal opinion. Ross’ hammy issues and Dockery’s regression. A top rookie CB would be upgrades over Dockery and B. Johnson (though he’s not horrible, it would be an upgrade) At the very least, a quality extra dime back
Again, i know i’m dreaming, but it seems logical that just signing those two in FA would help. The Giants can still draft quality LB/S’s or decent prospects in the middle too, for depth!
their only focus should be BPA....
yea…keep needs in mind, but don’t shortchange.
The only focus should be improving overall team speed. Maybe not a WR or TE or QB…but nothing should be overlooked.
There is no rookie that will make the Giants go from 8-8 to 12-4. None of them.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 11, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
We're close on priorities. Here's mine:
DB, DT, OL, RB, LB
I agree can’t overlook any of these.
good assessments
but heres mine
1. DT / LB dont reach here..with the depth of talent at lb and dt.. we should get the better player available between these two positions at the #15 spot. i like mcclain but that’s wishful thinking at this point, too early to tell..
2. the second of the two above
3. OL – we have beatty who i believe will transfer to LT. which moves deihl inside.. so at this point we need to keep studs ready for the injury prone.. aka mckenzie.
4. S – why so low in priority? actually your right.. ill switch this pick with OL. kenny phillips is in my prayers for his recover of arthritis in the knee.. mjohnson is servicable at this point.. he looked great with spaggs but looked like a terrible angle taking. whiffed tackling strong saftey. so hopefully a new defensive scheme will adapt to his abilities better.
Mt Cody
in the 2nd? Get him in shape and leave him in the middle. Dont need him to rush, just take up space.
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