So, who is the next defensive coordinator?
by Ed Valentine on Jan 5, 2010 5:00 AM EST
in News
208 comments
Bill Sheridan is gone to the bone yard where failed coordinators are buried. Who will Tom Coughlin turn to in an effort to fix the broken New York Giants defense?
Lets take a look at several potential 2010 defensive coordinators.
1. Dick Jauron -- The former Buffalo Bills, Detroit Lions and Chicago Bears head coach is the first name that is usually tossed out in reference to the Giants job. He has never succeeded as a head coach (60-82 career), but Jauron knows defense. After three failed head-coaching stints, he isn't going to get another shot to lead an NFL team. Running the defense for Tom Coughlin might be the best opportunity available to him. Jauron was TC's defensive coordinator in Jacksonville from 1995-98, and was also DC in Detroit before becoming head coach. He would be a solid, Coughlin-like choice. Besides, doesn't he look a little bit like TC?
2. Jim Haslett -- I heard this name being bandied about on 'Twitter' last night. Not sure I like it, or understand it, but I will put him on the list. Haslett has been an NFL head coach twice, in New Orleans and St. Louis. He was defensive coordinator in Pittsburgh from 1997-99. He has no career connection to Coughlin, and the Giants would likely be switching to a 3-4 if they brought him in. I don't see Haslett as a likely choice.
3. Kirk Olivadotti -- To be honest, I did not know who Olivadotti was until Monday afternoon. So, who is he? Olivadotti, 36, has been a defensive assistant with the Washington Redskins for 10 seasons, surviving a myriad of coaching changes while there. He has coached linebackers for the past three seasons. Does the profile sound a lot like the last really successful defensive coordinator the Giants had? By the way, Olivadotti's father, Tom, was linebackers coach for the Giants when they won the NFC Championship in 2000. If TC wants to roll the dice, and if Olivadotti finally wants out of Washington, his is an intriguing name to watch.
4. Mike Waufle -- Tom Rock of Newsday reported yesterday that no one on the Giants staff will be considered for the job. However, Waufle is a name that should at least be on the list of possibilities. He as been the Giants defensive line coach for six seasons. Seemingly well-respected, but has never been a coordinator at any level. Sheridan's failure as a rookie coordinator, and John Mara's current state of agitation toward everyone except Coughlin and Jerry Reese, makes a promotion for Waufle highly unlikely.
5. Peter Giunta -- He has been secondary coach/cornerbacks with the Giants since 2006. Giunta was defensive coordinator in St. Louis from 1998-2000, so he does have experience running a defense. The Giants did go out of their way last off-season to make sure Giunta stayed after Sheridan got the coordinator job, for which Giunta was apparently runner-up. As with Waufle, though, I do not see the Giants promoting from within considering Mara's state of mind and the poor play we saw this season. It's probably more likely that Giunta winds up looking for work considering how badly the secondary performed.
6. George Edwards -- Who? Edwards is the Miami Dolphins linebacker coach. What is it with the Giants and linebacker coaches, anyway? Edwards name was uncovered by Mike Garafolo. Edwards has been linebackers coach in Miami for three seasons, and was defensive coordinator in Washington for the 2003 season. Honestly, that is all I know about the guy.
6. Steve Spagnuolo -- I put his name here only because I know many of you are wishing we could turn back the clock. In fact, a reader e-mailed Monday afternoon to ask if an offer to be DC/head-coach-in-waiting would be enough to entice Spags to return. We can wish for it, but it isn't happening. Spags just finished the first season of a four-year deal, and he isn't going to bail on the Rams. Besides, would it really be fair to Coughlin to hire his replacement already? A Spagnuolo return is a pipe dream.
(E-mail Ed at bigblueview@gmail.com)
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Juaron
He has that intesne Coughlin stare.
Hey Ed do you think there would be any chance they wait a bit to see what head coaches get fired or which staffs are not retained and try and go after one of those HC ie Lovie Smith type or a DC on one of those staffs? Also are there any other Deffensive coaches that have been out of the league for a year or two that might fit the bill?
To say Jauron, "has never succeeded as a head coach" is a little disingenuous...
…he did win AP Coach of the Year in 2001 after posting a 13-3 record with the Bears. Mind you, the Bears were one and done in the playoffs and Jauron never had another winning season with them. Still, that is enjoying some success at the HC level — only one coach out of 32 coaches is awarded that distinction annually.
Still, his entire body of work leaves something to be desired. Were he a perennial winner, he would still likely have a HC gig in this league. My vote is to wait and see what becomes available rather than pick the low hanging fruit…
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 5, 2010 6:27 AM EST reply actions
That's a little stupid
He has built great defenses wherever he has gone. Even when the Bears went to the SB the year after he left it was him that built that defense and the Jags always had a competitive defense. Even look at the defense he built in Buffalo.
I like this choice as the players will respect him from day one.
Jags always had a competitive defense
They did? Under Jauron they were mediocre to below average. The first season after he left Jax under Capers the Jags were #1 in points allowed and #4 in total team defense.
Oh yeah.. those 13-3 Bears
If I remember correctly, Jim Miller (former backup Giants’ QB) got injured in the first few minutes of that playoff game and pretty much sealed his team’s fate. His career with the G-men might of been shorter than that time in that game.
But for Jauron, he’s taken over teams that were way over his head because of the lack of talent provided by management of those teams. I mean he was in the same division as the Pats and Packers during his HC years. But one thing you can say he’s a good defensive coach.
by uberfunction on Jan 5, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
The safe choice
is Juaron, I don’t think his defense would be as aggressive as Spags, but I think he would make the defense respectable, and thats fine with me ,I beleive the offense will be a top teir scoring offense for the next several years and an average defense might be all we need to contend for the championship, if we had an average defense this season, we would still be playing.
None of these people impress me...
I know past experience as a DC is very important when looking for a replacement but I really feel the Giants need a DC who is an aggressive, motivating figure. I think the mental attitude and overall demeanor of the Giants defense this season shows that the new DC needs these necessary characteristics. There is no leadership in the defensive unit so the new DC must fill this void.
Although Jauron is the most logical choice I don’t think he can be the kind of guy who is going to pump the Giants up. Forget past track records, forget about the new defensive schemes a new coaching candidate brings to the table…I think we have learned that is half the battle when trying to get your defense pumped to play. Bill Sheridan was supposedly good with the X’s and O’s but his unit weren’t motivated by him…he couldn’t motivate them to go to war for him.
The Giants need to do their homework and need to find a “new school” DC. Someone young with experience who can relate to these guys on the team.
+1
This is a poopoo platter of Defensive Coordinator candidates.
Jauron’s personality is described as nice and laid back. Do we really want him leading a defense that is in desperate need of some fire? I know that I don’t.
Doesn’t Coughlin’s fire offset Jauron’s approach?
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by MattRichWarren on Jan 5, 2010 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
One thing about nice and laid back
so was Spags that why players liked him. He never got upset and yelled at his players he listened to them, would make changes based on what they were saying and was calm on the sidelines during defesive huddels. Yes he was cheerleader and showed some emotion and seemed a lot more involve on gameday unlike BS but he was a very calm guy that never got on guys too much thats a big part of why the players liked him compared to Tim Lewis who was very harsh and critical of guys. Corey Webster credits his emergance becasue Spags would listen to him and would allow him to play the way he was used too unlike Lewis who was harsh on Webster for not fittng into his “scheme” and scrwed with his confidence.
But after what I witnessed this year I don’t think these guys deserve calm and laid back, they deserve a little fire and brimstone that SB performance was two years ago and as great as it was they can’t live of it forever they need a change.
Wishful thinking, but...
…I wouldn’t mind if Carl Banks came down from the booth to the sidelines.
He has spent the last few years dissecting and analyzing this team and knows the personnel well, and he is respected throughout the organization, from the players up to the top brass. Something tells me he could command players’ attention…whether or not he could draw up an effective scheme on defense, though, remains to be seen.
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 5, 2010 7:49 AM EST reply actions
Fox isn't going back as a DC
not going to happen
John Fox
Did the Panther’s made it official that Fox will continue to be the head coach.
Not yet
But I think Fox is angling for a long-term deal there. If he does not get it, maybe this list changes.
its been rumored
2011 will have a lot more coaching changes. its likely that fox will wait it out in carolina and see what opens up down the road. oakland and cleveland if no changes are made this year, seattle possibly, dallas is always in limbo. jaguars, bears, houston could all make changes next season too.
can't wait to see
the look on Wade Phillips face if they go 1-and-done in Jerryworld
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 5, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Doesn't Miami use a 3-4?
What about Perry Fewell?
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
That's why I was confused about George Edwards
Perry Fewell uses a 4-3 I’m 90% sure of
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
George
He actually has used both, but not sure Tom likes he very much being that he turned down a job for us not too long ago… See i’m friends with Mr. Edwards down here in Florida the best escape is 4 wheeling in the everyglades, George and his son ride with me and my pops plus a few other friends. He is a good guy and me and my dad had been begging him to go fix our defense… Hope he is in consideration because he won’t be with the dolphins next year and can hook me up with some good tickets for games i’d actually go to!!!
In football, you can always maim a person if you wanted to. -L.T.
LOL!!
Selfish reasons for a coaching change. Gotta love it! So, when he gets the job you are going to hook me up w/a nice one-on-one interview, right? A little scoopage for the fellas here at BBV.
For sure...
He would most definitely do that for me… If he gets it… He told me that he is sick of being the only hold over left(He was there pre-Tuna) and that he pissed someone off so he’s outta there..
In football, you can always maim a person if you wanted to. -L.T.
Not entirely true
Justin Tuck would be a great DE in a 3-4 and Clint Sintim proved in college that he is a stud coming off the edge in a 3-4. Kiwi would also be well suited for an OLB spot since he has dabbled some at linebacker in his Giants career while mainly playing DE. The main ingredient we would be missing is a NT.
I agree
Yea our main ingredient missing was DT this year so missing one NT won’t be that bad… I like that idea but i’m totally comfortable staying at 4-3, Specially for when I play Madden 2010, I don’t know how to play with the 3-4 lol
In football, you can always maim a person if you wanted to. -L.T.
+1
Our 4-3 D sucked a** this year, so if ever there was a time for a radical overhaul, it’s now.
I don’t like the “we don’t have the personnel” excuse — if the organization believes that a 3-4 would give us the best chance of success, then it should go about acquiring the personnel to make it happen. Even if it it took a year or two to adjust and bring some new peopleein, our O should theoretically be able to score enough points to keep us competetive.
All I am saying is that all options should be on the table and up for consideration.
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 5, 2010 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
Another thing to consider with a 3-4 is not only NT
but ILB’s. Thats a tough transition. Vilma could not do it with the Jets. Ray Lewis struggled with it in Baltimore for a year. Most of our LB’s are barley good special teams player let alone starters that can’t grasp a 4-3 that they’ve played in their entire carrerres. I highly doubt Goff, Blackburn, or Boley would be any good as an ILB in a 3-4 they suck as LB’s in a 4-3. Also Tuck is our best player and he’s our best pass rusher. In a 3-4 he’d be more of a guy that takes on blocks and stuffs the run while the OLB’s rush so you’d have Kiwi who has been an average player thus far and Sintim who is an unkown as our playmakers on D whil Tuck is a Fred Robbins type. And say what you want about Osi but I rather have him on the field rushing the QB on third down then Kiwi or Boley or Goff. That does not seem like your’re putting your best players in position to win with that type of stratagey.
our LB's suck as 4-3 LB's too, though
we pretty much need a complete overhaul at LB and DT anyway, so this seems like the perfect time to switch to a 3-4 (if that’s what the Giants decide they want to do). Honestly, I’m coming around to the idea – our best defenses ever were 3-4, maybe it’s time to switch back?
2009 Did Not Happen
Those Parcells D were
our best ever cause we had LT, the best defensive player ever.
85 Bears 2000 Ravens 70’s Steelers all ran 4-3’s. 4-3 works you just need the players and the right coach. 3-4 does not guarantee success.
by Landeta on Jan 5, 2010 11:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hell, we had a pretty stout D last year
294 points allowed, 42 sacks. All with Dave freakin Tollefson rushing of the end in our nickel packages.
Just need a DC that knows what he is doing and players that play inspired football
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 5, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Don't forget
we also lead the league in sacks in 07 with a 4-3
by Landeta on Jan 5, 2010 11:26 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
3-4 is ridiculous with this personnel
if you don’t get it, try googling 3-4 and 4-3. We have a buttload of 4-3 tackles under long-term high contracts. CANTY is a 3-4 end. Not Tuck. Not Kiwanuka. They would be undersized. 3-4 linemen must be run-stoppers. GO ahead and suggest again, whoever you were, that Osi should be a linebacker. It’s asinine.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 5, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
and we have a major shortage at LB, yeah, let's add a starter to THAT mix
long-term, I have no problem with 3-4. Frankly, if all this buzz about the league becoming pass-first is true, it may be a good option. Bu the Giants just made a HUGE commitment to 4-3. Hello? Nobody remember 2009 pre-season? It would take some time to switch. I don’t care if they do, but it’s not a simple, “okay, move this guy there” kind of operation. Let’s leave this stupid talk alone for another 2 years and see if they’ve positioned themselves to do it.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 5, 2010 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
It's also not as difficult as you make it seem
Tuck plays inside occasionally in a 4-3, so what’s to say that he can’t play DE in a 3-4? Canty would be the other DE in this scheme. Therefore, all we would need on the line would be a NT. Why not take Terrence Cody with our first round draft pick and sure up a mammoth of a tackle?
As for the Outside Linebackers: Sintim played in a 3-4 all through college. He was a sack master coming off the edge in a 3-4, so I would say he is a good fit and would already know the scheme. Kiwi has been used as a hybrid DE/OLB already. Isn’t that exactly what DeMarcus Ware is? Why couldn’t Kiwi play that role to a slightly less successful extent?
Inside Linebackers: This is where it gets a little dicey, but thats why there is a draft and free agency. Boley could take on of the inside backer spots. He is a smallish linebacker anyway. It wasn’t like he was stellar this year in a 4-3. That leaves one spot left to fill through either the draft or free agency.
I’m not saying it is the way we should go. But I also don’t think it is asinine to consider.
You have to be big to be ILB
in 3-4. Harry Carson was a D-lineman in college
by Landeta on Jan 5, 2010 11:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Tuck only plays inside
on passing downs not running downs to rush the QB
by Landeta on Jan 5, 2010 11:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
So in other words,
All we need is the second hardest position to find in all of football, and two inside linebackers. Gotcha. I’m looking forward to seeing that.
Also, players in their positions at college are usually undersized for the same position as pros. Tedy Bruschi was a college DE.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 5, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Nice sarcasm
Terrence Cody is sitting there for the taking at #15 overall.
We have Goff and Boley to play the inside linebacker spots. Plus possible draft picks or free agents. It’s not any different from them being average in the 4-3.
Not sure who you are referring to, but Sintim would not be undersized as an OLB in a 3-4. He’s 260lbs of muscle.
Boley
is too small for ILB. He’s more suited to weaksideOLB with better speed than the others. With current guys, it would have to be Goff and Blackburn inside, but i wouldn’t be happy about it.
He is small whether in a 3-4 or a 4-3
But the key to the ILB position in a 3-4 is speed, which he supposedly has.
agree speed is a +
The best ILBs are fast, like the Urlacher-type, but he’s too little to be a consistent run stopper. Strength is more important there. Watch for the run and blow up everyone who enters the area on pass plays (TEs, RBs, slot receivers) to throw off their timing/routes. (Once again you’re relying on a good pass rush to make sure the ends of those routes are meaningless.) If they have enough speed for true coverage that’s a bonus. Majority of the plays put Boley on the outside falling into coverage. Sub him out when you want both OLBs to rush.
Harry Carson was probably the best ILB ever
He was by no means a speed demon.
LOL at the 3-4
Kiwanuka and Osi would most likely have to transition to OLB. That would mean they would have responsibilities to cover in space. Like Simms-McConkey said, imagine Osi covering in space. Yeah.
Also, like Simms said, our ends minus Canty are undersized. If we can’t stop the run as a 4-3, how the hell are we going to make any progress in the 3-4. If we really want to switch, we need to draft an NT, a pass rusher that can cover in space (maybe we could train Sintim?), as well as bigger ends and ILBs.
The reason for switching to a 3-4 is simply better protection against the pass, as well as having more versatility in terms of blitzing schemes. But what the whole Giants defense is predicated on is pressure by a four man rush. We couldn’t generate any this season and was the reason why we failed, its not cuz there are any inherent deficiencies in our 4-3 scheme.
Jerry Reese = Omar Minaya?
by BigBlueIntervention on Jan 5, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
yea...
the idea that Tuck would be an excellent 3-4 DE is way off.
..he’s very good as a situation pass-rusher as a DT in the past..
…key word, situational.
As an every down 3-4 DE..essentially a DT, Tuck’s entire game would be a waste.
I’d rather make Tuck a OLB…..would that work? Hint : No.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
you did say "great"
sorry if I didn’t quote word for word….
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
I never said he would be a "great" DE in a 3-4
This is what I said…
“Tuck plays inside occasionally in a 4-3, so what’s to say that he can’t play DE in a 3-4?”
sorry to be an a-hole...
but
Not entirely true
Justin Tuck would be a great DE in a 3-4
and Clint Sintim proved in college that he is a stud coming off the edge in a 3-4. Kiwi would also be well suited for an OLB spot since he has dabbled some at linebacker in his Giants career while mainly playing DE. The main ingredient we would be missing is a NT.
by ggggmen08 on Jan 5, 2010 8:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
My apologies
I can’t remember what I did 5 mins ago, much less said.
I don’t agree with my own statement. I think a 3-4 DE is an unglamorous position and is tough for anyone to look great.
exactly
so why put our best player in a position where he cannot make plays?
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 5, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
I DON'T WANT TO RUN A 3-4!
I’m just trying to say if we had to transition I don’t think it would be as horrible as some think. I believe Tuck could hold his own as an undersized 3-4 DE if we needed him to.
there...
I agree with you.
IF THE HAD TO…based on a new DC’s preference..I think they could be OK.
..I mean, I have no doubts that if they were mediocre this season, they’d be 11-5 at least.
Whatever the scheme next year, as long as its middle of the pack and gets off the field SOMETIMES…it doesn’t matter.
As long as the offense stays the same or (hopefully) gets better.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Canty
You could also make the same argument that our highest paid free agent was picked up to play a scheme that he hadn’t played before. I played in a 3-4 in college under Groh and did the same for the Cowboys. So why pay him so much money to play out of position for us?
because a 3-4 end has the same responsabilities as a 4-3 DT
and he was the best available in FA
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 5, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
that's where
the signing was more of a ‘potential’ type of signing. They saw a young, never injured 6"7 305lbs behemouth who was supposed to push the pocket and be basically a Hayensworth type presence for them.
I think the injury in the beginning of the season hurt Canty’s learning experience switching over from the 3-4 to the 4-3.
I don’t think there’s doubt the talent is there with Canty.
He’s healthy next year for TC and preseason…and given his brief experience this year, he’ll be a lot better and part of the solution.
…of course, people will be saying..“damn, Sheridan sucked if he couldn’t win with this guy…”.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
That's not how the 3-4 is run
Kiwi wouldn’t have to cover in space. He would be used like DeMarcus Ware. Does Ware ever cover in space? No, he just spins his ears back and goes after the QB.
not all the time...
Ware does stop into coverage.
Yea, Spencer or whoever else usually rushes instead…but 3-4 OLB’s have to cover at times.
Kinda like when Osi dropped back this year, except a bit more often.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
But hasn't Kiwi done that before as an OLB in a 4-3?
Notice how I’m not using Osi’s name. I think if we go 3-4 he is done as a NY Giant.
That depends on the variation of the 3-4 scheme
Ware does not cover much because he is such an excellent pass rusher to assume Kiwi will be that good is a leap of faith.
The Steelers on the other hand use Woodley and Harrison more interchangably and each guy has to be able to cover and play in space. That was a huge adjustment for Woodley coming out of college where he was a 4-3 end. Not saying Kiwi could not develop into that cause he could but he could also turn into Vernon Gholdstien who was a 4-3 end at Ohio State and has struggeled mightely even under Ryan.
by Landeta on Jan 5, 2010 11:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
they have Sintim.
and Canty. That’s 2 guys who probably would be good.
Kiwi…probably cuz he was decent as a 4-3 SLB.
but that’s it.
Maybe the DT’s like Cofield and Alford would be decent….
but Osi and Tuck…regardless of their 2009, are still the best players on the D. They do not fit the 3-4.
Not to mention….they’d have to get 2 starting ILB’s (and backups..) out of Boley, Kehl, Goff and Blackburn.
Is there ONE starting ILB out of those guys?
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Our linebackers aren't good in a 4-3 either
What is it that makes Goff and Boley so good in a 4-3 but not a 3-4? I don’t get that mindset at all. They can be just as average in a 3-4 too.
sure..
they can all be average.
The main point..is supposedly Tuck, Osi and Kiwi are the best players no?
Only one of them has any experience at running a sort of position that they’d run in a 3-4, and that’s Kiwi.
Tuck would be out of place. Osi too (tho he may be gone anyway..).
The primary reason its a no go is cuz of Tuck. He’s the best player on the defense if he’s healthy.
He’s not a 3-4 player..plain and simple.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
I'm all for staying with a 4-3
I would rather play a 4-3 considering our personnel. I just don’t want us to rule out a defensive coordinator because they run a different scheme than we are use to. I’m playing devil’s advocate trying to defend how we could survive during the transition.
With that being said, it seems like the best defenses of recent years have run a 3-4 (Patriots, Pitt, Baltimore, Jets).
more-so this year...
really, in 2009, there’s really not one great defense in the league. The Jets are good I guess tho, but we’ll see in the playoffs.
2008 there was the Giants and Eagles, both 4-3’s.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
NE's D has struggled the past few years
as did Pitts this year and Dallas’s last year. The Jets took awhile to successfully transition they’ve been a 3-4 since 06 and this is their first really good year on D. Dallas transitioned back in 03. I think the point is it takes time to successfully transition the success you’ve seen this year of 3-4 teams has not happened overnight. Even Balt was a 4-3 team when they won the SB they transitioned over time. I just think their is a better chance of improving the D in 2010 if they stick to a 4-3
by Landeta on Jan 5, 2010 12:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
the common thread with Sintim and Canty...
…is that they played 3-4 under Al Groh at UVA.
Hire Groh as DC, spend a year or two adjusting to the system and aquiring the right personnel, and make the conversion to 3-4. If ever there was a time to switch, it’s now. I refuse to believe it pssibly be any worse than our 4-3 base package this year.
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 5, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
This isn't the year to adjust the defense
TC’s job is on the line now. If we miss the playoffs again he is as good as gone.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 5, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
TC is signed through 2011...
…so in two years he is likely as good as gone in any case. I have difficulty seeing him coming back after his contract expires, given his age and family commitments.
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 5, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
if we don't make the playoffs
you think john mara would even bring him back for 2011?
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 5, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Tuck would not be a 3-4 DE
he is way too small, he will get destroyed in the run game and 3-4 DE’s are only there to occupy blockers in the pass defense
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 5, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe Tuck can..
Play Saftey… Would be the hardest hitting Saftey in the league!! All kidding aside, Boley sucked in the 3-4 thats why ATL let him go… Osi is probably done here anyways, hopefully not specially if we stay 4-3…
Just one thought, if they want to go 3-4 and i’m not saying they do or that I really care but why let one player on your team Dictate what defense you play, there are 11 starters on D, if they really want to change it they will and if Tuck don’t buy in or find a way to get good then guess what, hate to say it too, but bye bye Tuck.
This is the NFL contracts aren’t garanteed it’s why this league is so good, cut them take the cap hit in most cases and bang next year is uncapped anyways… If JR and TC get a D cord that goes 3-4 I’m on board.. But i do agree 4-3 is what we are built for.
In football, you can always maim a person if you wanted to. -L.T.
And that's really the point.
There was a HUGE shift into a serious 4-3 commitment THIS YEAR.
There is a great 3-end combination right now, this recent performance aside, but I still have faith in Tuck/Kiwanuka at ends with Osi spelling them as a rusher. And there’s Tollefson. NONE of those guys is a 3-4 DE. The closest size-wise would be OSI but he sucks at occupying OLs and stopping the run. The closest talentwise would be Tuck, and he’s undersized, yet probably stronger than Kiwi or Tollefson.
Cofield, Robbins, and Alford are classic 4-3 DTs. They do not fit well into a 3-4 line, period. You might make a case for one as an end, but again, not really. Canty is a classic 3-4 end at 6’7 305. Compare that to Osi at 6’3 260 and Tuck at
6’5 275. In the linebacking corps you’d be horrifically exposed. You need fast guys who can rush and cover. While it was claimed Boley could cover we’ve seen little evidence of that. And the rest of these guys, frankly, are backups. At least for now. Keep them on the field in as few numbers as possible. In this lot it is claimed that Sintim and Boley would work. I won’t argue it, because there is no evidence one way or the other.
But right there you can see there would have to be a drastic overhaul that flies in the face of everything the Giants have geared for:
1. Sign free agent NT in excess of 350 pounds.
2. Dump Osi Umenyiora, Justin Tuck, Matthias Kiwanuka, Jay Alford, and Dave Tollefson.
3. Sign 2 3-4 DEs in addition to Canty.
4. Dump Goff, Blackburn, Kehl.
5. Sign 3 3-4 LBs.
Not a simple process.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 5, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Now compare to a real 3-4 defense, say one by a former Giants DC
NT: Vince WIlfork, 375 pound beast. / as opposed to: FredRob, 315lbs, avg. 4-3 DT
DE: Ty Warren, Richard Seymour, both 6’5+ and 305+ pounds over: Tuck/Kiwi = 275 each
OLB: Pierre Woods (250), Adalius Thomas (270) yet both comparable in speed and athleticism to what we have in smaller, less athletic guys compare to: Blackburn? Clark? Kehl?
ILB: Jerod Mayo, a fast as hell, stud playmaking beast. And some schmuck who will be replaced next year.
THAT’S a 3-4 defense. And they picked up Ron Brace out of BC to back up Wilfork.
What BB does so damn well is pick up players who work in the system he runs, and pays to their strengths. I’m afraid we did not do that with our FA signings of Canty and Bernard, but Canty may pan out better next year. Let’s hope so.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 5, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Kiwi and Tuck
Would have to go the OLB like Ware and Adalius Thomas, maybe lose some weight get faster, but yeah i see your point not really worth it, if Eagles can keep a 4-3 doing very well every year then we should be able to as well.. problem is Eagles have had their coaching staff for decades we cant keep coaches for more then 2yrs… thats what hurts our D in my opinion(and injuries)
I’m just hoping for the best next year regardless of who is our DC, I’m leaning towards Kirk Olivadotti these damn italian(and i’m italian) last names that i can’t pronounce always seem to do good on defense. Another Spags in waiting, but keep this guy at all cost if he can do it for us…
In football, you can always maim a person if you wanted to. -L.T.
I have nothing against the 3-4 in theory
but, it’ll take some years to get there… probably a new head coach, not just DC. I think they’re years away. When it happens, I’ll look forward to it. In fact, from my limited understanding, the 3-4 offers more protections against strong passing attacks, which seem to be coming to the forefront of NFL offenses these days. If this Colts/Saints/Pats thing catches fire with offenses around the league, the 4-3 could widely fall out of favor!
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 6, 2010 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
these things go in cycles don't they?
It usually follows a SB, then everyone tries to copy it.
The Giants won with their pass rush..so everyone tries to get a pass rush. Also the Pats went undefeated with this Shotgun offense..that spreads around.
2008..the Cardinals..and yea..the Steelers, are this pass happy O that can tear up and D (Cards DID rip that vaunted Steeler D a new one).
This year..who knows.
I bet if the Packers win it all…you’ll see some more 3-4 teams show up out of the woodwork.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 6, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Not on my list
because I haven’t seen or heard his name mentioned yet. It’s early, though, so anything is possible.
Check the DC Rankings you sent out
Don’t know much about him, but Fewell sits in the middle tier.
From Pro Football Weekly
13. Perry Fewell (interim head coach) / Bills — The Bills have taken more defensive snaps than anyone and have dealt with more injuries at linebacker and safety than anyone. Yet they still have been competitive defensively. SCOUT’S TAKE: “Fewell is a hell of a coach. He’s a very good teacher, and it’s difficult to find guys who can (correct) technical flaws the way he can. The defense has not been the problem there. If they can keep him (as defensive coordinator), they should.”
I am probably dating myself here...
…but every time I hear the name “Perry Fewell” I seem to confuse him with the singer from Jane’s Addiction…
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 5, 2010 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
if that makes you old,
then Nothing’s Shocking to me…
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 5, 2010 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
If Elmer Fudd were talking about Jane's Addiction, yes.
“Been cawght steewin!”
I left my swagger in my other pants.
Help me out here:
What was Jane addicted to?
a little something we call
“Ritual de lo habitual”
Sorry Gonz, that’s an album name. Jane’s Addiction was the band name. Nothing’s Shocking was another album. A very musically talented band, yet too aggressive in lyrics and imagery for mainstream popularity … their first album had to be sold brown-bagged on the shelves because of the cover art. The second album was released with a second, alternative cover art so it could be sold more widely. Both included nudity. Also, their singer and main creative force was, I believe, a heroin addict. However, they enjoyed some radio success with “Jane Says” and “Ted, Just Admit It” (In reference to serial killer Ted Bundy) and later (on Ritual) with “Been Caught Stealing.” and at one point my band covered “Stop!”
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 5, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Never heard of them..and am glad I haven't..
We might as well keep an eye on that guy that thwarted the attempted take down of flight 253..and I was thinking maybe trying out the terrorist for SS, because he must have some set of balls, then realized since he had his package taped to his “package”..He no longer has any balls..Oh well back to the drawing boards for a safety, I guess..but the guy who jumped over seats to tackle him?..Sign him up..
I was just goofin'
My youngest kid is a guitarist in a heavy metal band, so I at least recognize names that most my age or even a lot younger don’t recognize. Heavy metal’s rough sledding in the US. His current group, just starting out, is his fifth. I told him to head for Germany of Scandavia where they love heavy metal, or pack it in, head for Nashville and settle for being a studio musician. He’s not crazy about either idea, especially Nashvilee, although they have damn good guitar players there.
Perry Fewell
Someone just mentioned him above. He was on Coughlin’s staff in Jacksonville as DBs coach when Jauron was DC. I think Fewell might end up in NY or Chicago as DC or DBs coach. He’s worked with Lovie Smith, too.
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And yes he run a 4-3. He’s mainly been schooled in the Tampa 2 but I’m sure he could adjust to a traditional 4-3. He’s a hell of a coach.
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by MattRichWarren on Jan 5, 2010 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
What was the perception of Jauron in Buffalo?
Was it really his fault there that they couldn’t do better then they were? OR was it more of the guy buying the groceries, injuries..
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think it matters a whole lot to your conversation. Jauron has done a good job as DC in three different places.
In Buffalo Marv Levy acted as GM for one year then transitioned to Jauron being the head personnel guy. He didn’t scout but heh ad final say over the roster so he has nobody to blame but himself. Of course he was in over his head on that front which is why the first thing the Bills did was hire a GM last week.
A lot of people in Buffalo really disliked him. Thought he was a walking corpse both in appearance and sideline demeanor. I would rather have an even-keeled guy myself that doesn’t let emotion get in the way of a good or bad play.
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by MattRichWarren on Jan 5, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Juaron
Talked to my buddy whos a Bears fan and he just laughed at me and said good luck…
In football, you can always maim a person if you wanted to. -L.T.
See. That was when he was a head coach. He did well enough as a DC in Jacksonville to get hired in Chicago.
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by MattRichWarren on Jan 5, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
RIght know I think I would like to see
Perry Fewell, seeing as if he gets dissmised from Buffalo, he seems like a young guy up to the challange that might turn out to be something special.
Something tells me Fewell, despite his recent limited success, is nothing more than...
…a Rooney Rule candidate, a way for the Bills to tick that box. Cynical, yes, but perhaps true.
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 5, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Almost every single interim coach gets to re-interview for the full time job. Plus the Bills are reportedly going to interview Ron Rivera who would also satisfy the rule. They both can’t be sham Rooney rule interviews.
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by MattRichWarren on Jan 5, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Yahoo sports is claiming more firings to come
Absolutley horrible article they listed Kevin kilbride as the o.c for the Giants
Gilbride's job is on Eli...pretty much.
If Eli says he likes Gilbride…NO ONE will be able to tough his job.
N8 !
Gilbride's...
Contract is up he can go if he wants so we got no choice on him, its all up to Kevin what happens with our OC now.
In football, you can always maim a person if you wanted to. -L.T.
I doubt KG wants to go anywhere else
unless its a HC job.
Since his contract is up…and Mara himself said all aside from TC and JR are not safe…its up to Eli.
If KG accepts a HC job (why he’d get one…I dunno) then so be it.
Other then that situation, its up to Eli. He’s the man right now. If he says that he’d be OK to go in a different direction, they will.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
I have to agree.
If KG doesn’t get a HC job and wants to come back I agree that Eli will have a huge say as to whether that happens or not.
One thing for sure though they better not let Chris Plamer go anywhere. I think he deserves a lot of credit for Eli’s improvement the last couple of years.
weirdest thing
This year won me over. I don’t want KG leaving… as long as we can have a running game next year.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 5, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Running Game
CJ Spiller could fix that.. just sayin’ ;)
KG might just get a HC job, maybe the Raiders, and I hope he stays as well.
In football, you can always maim a person if you wanted to. -L.T.
Credibility required
TC can’t afford to roll the dice. He needs someone who can walk in the door and have instant credibility with the players, the other coaches, and (especially) the Maras. He needs someone who can coach the 4-3 because he hasn’t the time to change personnel and go 3-4. Bottom line – the team has to win in 2010 or he is likely unemployed. Sounds like Jauron or equivalent – an experienced DC who has shown he can run a winning defense.
In TC’s situation, anything else is just too risky.
Mickey C
I dunno why people gotta bring up Jauron's past jobs....
Was he the architet of great defenses? No.
….was he the DC of an EXPANSION team with EXPANSION players? Yea.
Did that defense of retreads and rookies become middle of the pack and help that team become 11-5 in the final 2 years? Yup.
I like Fewel and Jauron. I’d rather have Jauron on the staff as the lead, DC..and have Fewell as a position coach, preferably DB.
Then…..if/when the OLD PEOPLE leave…Fewel can take over.
I’d much rather go for an experienced dude like Jauron.
Yea, Fewell may be the young, fiery guy…but who the hell cares…Having him AND Jauron on the staff is better.
…This Ollividatti guy sounds like a Spags type tho. Football lifer. Position coach for 10 years with one team. The LB’s were pretty good in WAS no? Orakpo, LFB, Rocky McIntosh? Lot better then the Giants can every get out of their LB’s.
I
N8 !
Bradshaw
as usual, I agree with you on most of this
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 5, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Props.
…I’ll add, many people wanted Dom Capers in hindsight did any of you all not?
Capers is basically Jauron.
The talent is here..regardless of what Zillag says.
With Jauron, he’d be orchestrating a D that had more talent then any place he’d been in, aside from Chicago.
And of course…..if the Giants luck does a 180 (it seems to do so come draft time…) and Rolando McClain falls to them, they will allow Jauron to be reunited with a Brian Urlacher type MLB.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Ollividatti
I really like him alot and would love it if he became our new D Cord, I could deal with Juaron to though.
In football, you can always maim a person if you wanted to. -L.T.
yeah olivadotti
is my number #1 choice. Fewell is #2 and Jauron #3
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 5, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Doesn't matter as long as tc is there
The one common denominator is tom coughlin. Nothing will change. Spags won the super bowl not coughlin. what is coughlins home playoff record? anyone? players who dogged it need to be cut. send a message loud and clear.
What is """Spags""" playoff record?
They lost in 2008 cuz of Spags just as much as they lost cuz of Coughlin.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
Neither won the super bowl...
The players did. If you’re gonna say Spags won the super bowl, then would you also say that Spags has something to do with the fact that he’s the head coach of arguably the worst defensive team in the NFL?
Exactly!
If it was all Spags then his Rams’ defense should be #1 regardless of what players he has.
Bottom line is the players share in this blame too. If there was as much talent on the D as everyone says than anyone on this board could have been D coordinator and had at least an average defense.
Then I guess
Sheridan went 8-8 this year and not TC
You can’t not give him credit for the SB then blame him when they lose in the playoffs and go 8-8
by Landeta on Jan 5, 2010 11:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Team
The ’07 Giants won the Super Bowl as a TEAM! That means players, coaches, GM, the collective organization. Yes, the players went out there and got it done, but it starts with coaching!
agree
it’s a full organization effort. but i like to think it starts with making plays (or not making plays) – and from that, coaches will take the credit or get the blame.
i know i’m in the minority, but i really believe that everyone is making too big a deal about who we hire here. no system will work with players who don’t cover, tackle, or get to the QB; any system will work with players who do.
i could be wrong, but to me, sheridan’s D looked strangely familiar to spags’ D — the differences I noticed were that we never got any pressure with the front 4, whiffed on blitzes or let receivers get behind us quickly when we did blitz, and constantly got beat in the middle of the line of scrimmage in the running game. who does that all really fall on?
according to my calculations, it’s 8.333% bill sheridan’s fault.
+1
it starts with making plays (or not making plays)
indisputable.
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 5, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly
I think a big difference is dropping a DE into coverage cause of a blitzing LB, S, or CB. Nice to do it one or two times a game, but not as frequently as it was happening. And that comes down to the blitzing player getting adequate pressure to either a) sack the qb or b) rush the throw. Neither of those were happening this year. Let’s face the facts, our secondary was weak, which was compounded by the fact that our front four got no pressure.
I would go a bit higher on the Sheridan fault meter, say 51.387%, as he is in charge of the defense, getting them prepared and ensuring execution.
we'll agree to disagree
that coaches can ensure execution. i’m not so sure spags did that with the rams D this year.
8.333% = 1/12…. the remaining 11/12 are the 11 players on the field.
Spags was the man on the defense for the Rams...
you don’t have the players..which the Rams don’t…you’re not gonna succeed.
While I guess we’ll never know what Sheridan would do…you gotta fault the players the most here.
I’m not sure its lack of talent…but more so lack of talent due to the talent being injured (either on IR or on the field in a shell of themselves).
I don’t have too much doubt that the defense would’ve taken a few steps back this year anyway if Spags was in place of Sheridan.
There were too many injuries. Maybe they player more mediocre instead of horrific, basically cuz they liked Spags.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Jauron..is the only guy I see worth looking into...
The rest just don’t jump out at me..Olivadetti maybe worth a risk, but I don’t know that we can afford risks at this point..I think Land made a really good point..In the next few days, maybe a week…There maybe other candidates that surface…I sure would love it if John Fox came back as DC/Assistant HC..Tom Coughlin won’t be doing this forever and Fox could come in fix the defense and eventually succeed TC.
there's enough Blame for everyone
If I were a Mara I would gut this team from top to bottom, Keep TC and JR but get a new offensive coordinator to go along with the New DC. And then start reassessing which players to keep and who to keep. I go into next season with EVERYONE knowing no ones’ guaranteed a starting spot. He who earns it gets it , and keeps it based on performance
therer is definitely a chance they go with a new OC.
that’s definitely in play.
…dare I say? Brian Billick for OC?
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
eh
would you really want that at this point? do you really dislike Gilbride that much?! To me he’s always seemed like a pretty good fit for Eli and the rest of this offense.
I agree with that
I just wish KG would utilize the playaction more and design some plays for Boss. Plus, let’s institute a no huddle for some drives, get the defense on their heels a bit. I am not saying to do it all the time, but definitely on the first drive or two to wear down that D a bit.
no..
I don’t dislike Gilbride THAT much..
…I don’t really have a preference either way with KG.
If he stays..he stays. He goes, he goes.
Well..as long as the replacement is any good.
I think the offense was what it was mainly cuz of Eli..not cuz of the playcalling being all that great. It was good here and there, but it was really Eli’s decisions that were all that good.
I really think it could be better tho. I think the offense is good with KG…but I don’t think Eli’s really been put in his best position by KG.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Nice idea
I kinda like it and i read someone also mentioned the no huddle n play action, this guy will do both and plenty of it… Not sure he would want to be OC under coughlin, i think that guy wants HC again but if KG leaves damn right i’d take Billick!!
In football, you can always maim a person if you wanted to. -L.T.
I also wouldn't mind Mara pulling Parcells away from Miami to fix the defense defense in role much like he currently
Has in Miami..His contract there is open-ended..He and TC goe back along ways and could work together on getting this ship righted, plus he is a master motivater..Be mice to see the Tuna stalking around again…
Tuna is in Fla for good.... he's old now! Old people love Florida! Just ask JRS
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 5, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
As long as we're stealing from the bills...
Their special teams coordinator wanted out and quit. If we get Jauron, I’m sure he would come to the giants since he seems to really respect him.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
field position
That’s right, hire Bobby April and a good kicker. Better kickoffs and coverage would definitely help the D lower the points against.
Bobby April would be a great addition to any staff.
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by MattRichWarren on Jan 5, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
coaching wish list
If the D sucks again next year, we know TC is a goner. By then Shanahan, Cowher, and Gruden might all be off the market. Is anyone on here in favor of replacing TC now?
No...
and Shanahan’s probably off the list.
Cowher’s overrated…
Gruden..meh, probably the only one from the list I’d take..but there’s probably better candidate’s other then those with a ‘name’.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Shanahan
Probably is too late for Shanahan, but i’d love to see him as HC and OC. Get rid of Gilbride and promote Palmer to asstOC. Juaron and Fewell both look good to me as DC candidates.
Shanahan
is more overrated then Cowher…
I don’t go for any of these big ‘names’.
Shanahan got run out of Denver for a reason, cuz his team CHOKED away a 4 game lead in the final month of the season.
He has won a SB…but that was over 10 years ago.
Let the Redskins get him and fire him in 3 years.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
don't make him the GM
Shanahan’s stock dropped after he was GM and completely ignored the defensive personnel. He made pro bowlers out of average backs with his offensive scheming and that’s what i want to see. (Terrell Davis was his only real stud back.) With durability issues to both Jacobs and Bradshaw we really don’t have a number 1 back.
Fox's contract is up in 2011
as well
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 5, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
That's who I'd want.
1. I’m fine with TC for a while longer.
2. I’ve learned to hate Gilbride less…but wouldn’t shed a tear if he left.
3. It’s going to be Jauron. No question.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
gruden
runs the west coast Offense i dont think that we have the right personel for it.
by casual observer on Jan 5, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Well, i'm a little late on all of the discussion
But i will say, none of these DC’s jump out at me. Also on second thought, like alot have already said, Jauron does seem to have a calm demeanor about him? I’m not so sure that is what we need.
Who knows, i guess the bottom line is getting the players to buy into what your selling and putting players into the best possible situation to succeed!
what's so bad about a calm demeanor?
I don’t get it…..
Spags wasn’t some loudmouth a-hole who ripped them at every second. He was just a guy they rallied around.
Jauron is a lot like the other Dick…Lebeau.
Yea..he hasn’t had that sort of success…then again, look at the teams and the players he’s worked on. When he finally got some good players, in Chicago..they were very good.
Calm demeanor..doesn’t matter.
Someone who the players can respect….more important.
I also don’t get how anyone can look for someone who ‘stands out’. If there was one of those out there…they are a HC or DC already somewhere.
Think of jauron like Dom Capers last year. Don’t pass up that opp. again.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Lots of good coaches have calm demeanores. e.g.,
Belly (well, maybe he;’s a stone face?), Bud Grant, Bill Walsh.
Rob Ryan
Why is nobody mentioning Rob Ryan. This guy plays a very aggressive style of defense I think would work well in NY. I’m also not going to give him a bad rap for Cleveland because that cubbard is bare of good players.
I think his attack style could work but I’m not sure how well he would mesh with TC.
Just putting it out there since Holmgren will blow away that coaching staff.
Too much ego tho...I
I think Ryan..or even Mangini, could be good.
But Ryan and Mangini have too much ege to fit in as a Coordinator here.
This is why Jauron is probably the best choice..probably will be the choice.
Him and Coughlin work well together.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
If you ever suggest Mangini again
we will have nothing to agree on ever again
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 5, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
I was replying to Bradshaw
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 6, 2010 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
I don't see Mangini getting fired..He got a Gatorade bath..Looks like he finally is beginning to win over his players.
..And Holgram was never a weak ballerina head coach, so the two may very well hit it off over coffee and plenty of donuts.
Free I posted before you came to you're senses about Mangini
also he was a D-Coordinator for one year with the Pats in 05. (He was handed the keys to a porshe and did’nt crash it) He was hyped up as a boy genius becasue he was qurikly like his mentor BB so the idotic Jets hired him thinking they were getting the next Geius coach. Then Browns hired him right away for god-knows what reason. He’s awful, eveything about him is awful.
by Landeta on Jan 5, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They hired mangini because they're the browns
Herm Edwards suggested him, and the management didn’t even interview anyone else.
That was a major no no.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Mangini?!
If the Giants hire him it should be to collect tickets at the gate in the new stadium!
He’s never had success as a coordinator and is a product of Bellicheck hype.
Not a chance in hell, I would be enraged as a Giants fan if they drafted that clown.
LOL!
ALRIGHT!!!!
Let Mangina rot elsewhere….
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 6, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Professionals
You would think that they could be professionals but I would put Rob Ryan underneath Jauron for the position.
If they hire the DL coach then I might have to strike and be a Jets fan for a year.
Is there anyone who has been working under Rex Ryan that would be a candidate?
3-4 defense
I don’t think any coach is married to a certain system. If the personnel requires 4-3 then wouldn’t the coach design a system that best utilizes the personnel available? The Giants have so many D-linemen and presumably will add 2-3 Linebackers so that amoeba look might be the way to go.
Sheridan did not scheme the D-lines’ speed correctly. The ends were always running up field to space not stunting and running inside to the QB. How many times did Spags use Tucks speed and get him running full speed at a center? That is the beauty of Spags system. This year Tuck and Osi just ran up the edges leaving gaping holes for running backs and screen plays.
also sheridan
kept insisting on using the 4 DE look with tuck – kiwanuka – tolefson – umenyiora that never ever worked.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 5, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Osi was clearly doing that on his own
That’s what got him benched.
kirby smart
the guy has a good D mind and he also was C-webs secondary coach at LSU. he could help bring that youthful, NCAA energy that we see from bama. he also would most likley make web his go too D captin, which will force him to become a leader and i thinkl he will flourish in the role. its a win-win. a new scheme and a young guy stepping up and becoming a leader
Hello, 57, where are you?
How can you refrain from a 3-4 discussion?
this is how i would imagine our current defense is a 3-4
DE Justin Tuck
DT Terrance Cody / Dan Williams / FA
DE Chris Canty
OLB Mathias Kiwanuka
ILB Michael Boley
ILB Jon Goff
OLB Osi Umenyiora
CB Terrell Thomas
SS Michael Johnson
FS Kenny Phillips
CB Corey Webster
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 5, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
I like everything
except for Osi and Michael Johnson.
I think unless Osi can turn it around he couldn’t fend off the blockers or fill a gap. He likes to speed rush.
I think Michael Johnson in the Nickel back and I’d put Ross at FS and Phillips at SS.
bad bad bad
1 bad DE
rookie NT?!
2 out of position OLBs?! an average and a poor ILB? You’d have to dump Osi and promote Sintim in this scenario
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 5, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Ed: Slight Quibble
Mara is pissed at EVERYONE and the leash for Coughlin AND Reese just got shorter. I think that Coughlin will likely make a somewhat conservative choice here knowing how short the leash is and the magnitude of this decision. Consider this: Coughlin has two years left. The GMen won’t allow a lame-duck coach w/ one year left on his contract. So I say if the Gmen stutter through next year and suffer another patented Nov/Dec swoon, Coughlin is gone. I don’t see the Giants prolonging TC with another extension nor would anyone think him deserving of it. So TC knows and understands the magnitude of this decision.
The timing of the years remaining on Coughlin’s contract is a big deal and no one has paid enough attention to it.
good point...
so maybe if they do hire someone like John Fox, or even Perry Fewel, 2 guys who probably will be future head coaches if they aren’t so in 2010…then maybe then can take over for Cough. intsead of leaving after one year?
N8 !
Yeah I made that point about Fox earlier..
He hasn’t embraced coming back with Carolina (probably a contract ploy)..but it would be perfect for him to come in as DC/AHC and eventually take the reigns when TC retires..Whoever we get needs to be smart and fiesty..This defense needs intense emotion just as much as it needs talent and a good game plan to operate with each week..
intense emotion is nice...
but it fuels off of making plays consistently and being confident.
Confidence>>>>>>Emotion.
N8 !
Yes but confidence comes from a Coach that is smart and emotional..Shows the players he's in there with them.
Not some inanimate body on the sidelines..Spags was always waving his arms barking out orders..Fox was the same way..Always pointing at his head with his index fingers shouting at them to think..Parcells, same thing plus they all groomed leaders out there on the field..I could go on and on back to the early sixties..The only coach we have doing that is TC..I hope they fire all of the rest of them.and do it fast because draft day and FA is right around the corner.
I took that Daily News poll today and was amazed that the majority of fans agreed on who should go and who should stay but it didn’t go deep enough into the coaching staff..The promising thing is that we pretty much all can conclude that from a player perspective, there really aren’t alot of players that need to get the boot from the Turk..Also, we have talked some about installing a 3-4 defense..Frankly, we can’t unless you all and I want to witness another dismal defense next season..This team has been built on a 4-3 and we have nobody on the roster that can pull off that switch by September 2010 or by 2011 for that matter..It ain’t gonna happen..We need a coaching staff under TC that can tweak what needs to be tweaked and go from here forward..Your not going to transform our current group into a 3-4 defense period…Nor do they have to..Just fix what is broke. If you all want a 3-4..Then get ready for a couple more years of what we just witnessed..and Cody made a very good point concerning TC..He is the first guy that needs to soul search and come to grips with what has to be changed, including him..The last time he did that, we won a Super Bowl….He needs to do it again..Time is of the essence here.
Bob Sutton...
Jets LB Coach looks like he is at the top of the list for the Giants. Check out this article in the National Football Post detailing some of the Giants’ problems: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/DMN-John-Mara-puts-Giants-on-alert.html
I don't like Sutton....
He was the Jets DC already….and they sucked with him.
Yea, he’s their LB coach and they got good LB’s…David Harris into a Pro Bowl MLB…yadda yadda.
The Jets defense is good cuz of Rex Ryan, and someone like Bart Scott who’s certifiably insane when he puts that helmet on.
Can we please NOT get a Linebacker coach?
N8 !
I meant
a LB coach on another team to be the DC…
of course a LB coach is needed on the Giants…and yea, Carson or LT would be great (probably more-so Carson…Lord knows what LT is up to these days).
LT would probably kill somebody after one bad play…
N8 !
Okay Gotcha..Yes Carson would be perfect for them and they need to groom a smart MLB.
Taylor would teach them how to be mean, nasty and relentless..
tho the article brings up an excellent point
with the GIants selecting big LB’s with fast 40 times…instead of smaller quicker LB’s.
And that sort of thing has killed them. Guys like Goff, Kehl and even Sintim are all big guys with pretty quick 40’s…but there are big and not very quick….interesting stuff.
N8 !
Someone needs to come in and teach our LBs..
How to be more horizontal than vertical when they play the run..They are always running upfield instead of making read and traversing the field to catch the runner..We have always drafted big and fast at LB..I don’t think that’s the problem..I think is is the way they are or have been confusingly coached.
Next DC
We don’t need a big name DC as much as we need someone who will get our defence fired up, no more of this sitting on the bench sad puppy dog BS. This was the worst Ive ever seen the Giants defence, even in past years when they didnt play well at least they had some heart, if a the new DC can bring even a quarter of the intensity spags brought with him they’d be a much improved group, and if Jauron can do that Im all for it theres still alot of talent on this team yes a few changes need to be made but overall the talent is still there they just need DC and a couple veteran free agents to bring it out.
What about Greg Blache
It would seem to me that the upheaval in Washington might just make this guy available. The only decent thing about the Redskins over the last 4 years or so has been the Defense. I would absolutely try to lure this guy away.
Blanche is not who we want
I have a lot of friends that live in the DC area, and they all think Blanche’s D was smoke and mirrors. Not sure he would be the guy I want in here fixing this mess
by Late for Dinner on Jan 5, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
He would fit great I think,
He is consistently putting the redskins in the top 10 in overall “D” each year. He is consistent whether it’s smoke and mirrors or not…
Another Problem
This talk about the defense is all well and good, but what about the aging and weakening O-Line?
by LT not Tomlinson on Jan 5, 2010 5:51 PM EST reply actions
And O'hara isn't getting any younger
And Diehl has finally shown his lack of size.
by LT not Tomlinson on Jan 5, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Lack of size?
I thought it was he was too slow for speed rushers.
You don’t think a guy is a natural guard if he’s too small to be a tackle
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
I think we have to stick with the guys we have for next year
Beatty – Diehl – O’hara – Snee – McKenzie
If McKenzie gets hurt again we move Diehl to RT and Seubert / Boothe takes over LG
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 5, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
depending on how they work out next year
we can completely re-do the line for 2011 ( if there is any football then anyway )
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 5, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
Nothing wrong with that...
I think they should sign a FA RT (not a fart..a RT…)
Kinda like the Eagles signing Stacy Andrews.
Just to get a RT with experience. Preferably one that’s a similar size to McKenzie….and definitely younger.
Not really to take over, but more for competition.
N8 !
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