Bill Sheridan fired
by Ed Valentine on Jan 4, 2010 5:54 PM EST
in New York Giants News
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PrintRalph Vacchiano just broke the news we have all been waiting for. Details, and more discussion, later.
[UPDATE: My quick thoughts on the Sheridan firing are below}
To me, this is a move that simply had to be made. No choice, even before CEO John Mara's disparaging comments Monday afternoon about everyone not named Tom Coughlin or Jerry Reese.
Poor performance is one thing, and we obviously saw way too much of that. But, when a unit completely lays down the coach cannot be retained.
One other note about this. Coughlin said a few times that hiring Sheridan was giving the players what they wanted, system continuity. They can forget that now. All indications are there is no chance anyone from the current staff will even get an interview for the job. More likely, many of them will get pink slips.
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Thank god!
Music to my ears
by haakeem the dream on Jan 4, 2010 5:57 PM EST via mobile reply actions
No choice on this one
Even if TC had wanted to keep him, with John Mara’s tirade today there was zero chance of keeping Sheridan.
He is the obvious choice
I will probably list a few other possibilities in the morning, but I think the job is Jauron’s if he wants it.
Jauron
If they hire a new DC like a Jauron or a Capers, does that mean a clean bill of coaches on the entire defensive side of the ball? Or can we expect to see some of the coaches, i.e. Waufle, back next year? Who ultimately makes that decision, TC or the new Defensive Coordinator
all part of the negotiation -
If there is someone they REALLY want for DC – he might get to select a bunch of his coaches. Someone with less power might have to take whoever is given to him. Most decisions would be in between. TC, Reese, and new DC all have opinions. Ultimately Reese has to buy off on any decision
According to WFAN...
Top choices are
Kirk Olivadotti. Others to watch are Haslett and maybe Jauron
I definitely like the idea of bringing in a seasoned guy like Jauron. He has a tough demeanor and while he’s obviously not a head coach in waiting type (I think his shots at head-coaching gigs are over) he seems like the type of coach that makes an excellent coordinator and not a great coach. Seems to me that he would be a great fit for Big Blue.
They mentioned Jack DelRio on ESPN
provided he no longer in Jville
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
no problem with that idea either...
I don’t think if there was a former HC out there..regardless of his record as a HC, that you can go too wrong.
There was a reason a HC is a HC..and its probably because he was an excellent coordinator.
N8 !
Jauron Terrible option
While the Jags DC they finished near the bottom in points allowed every season.
read below...
there’s a reason why its a good idea to take every sort of stat with a grain of salt.
There was logical reasons for that..
And no..in his 3rd and 4th seasons, they were right around the middle.
No where near the talent of the Giants D either.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
Stats
agreed we can take stats with a grain of salt. But 4 mediocre years should be a good enough sample.
take the grain of salt...
cuz he was working with an EXPANSION TEAM.
Even when they were 11-5 and had a mediocre D……they still didn’t spend any money and had those same retreads, rookies and young players.
….they’ll have young players here in NY..but I dunno about you, go click on those rosters I linked to…the players Jauron hand in JAX were piles of crap.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 5, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
YAY!
sigh…kinda feel bad for the bloke.
I pretty much agree with the coaches…it really wasn’t all him…but you just couldn’t keep him after this season.
1st year DC probably should get a second year…but the D can’t be this bad…
N8 !
I also think Mike Zimmer's contract is up at the end of the season
He has done a great job with the Cincinnati defense the past few seasons.
I thought that too BUT
It’s been reported Shanahan wants to bring him in at Washington. With that said I woud not mind taking a look at Wash’s old or soon to be old DC he did a decent job.
George Blache
I wouldn’t mind him at all.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Excuse me
Greg Blache.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
meh...
in WAS..they have the luxury of a MLB in London Fletcher, who’s a lot like AP, except he’s still got “it”.
I wouldn’t be against getting Blache if he’s fired however…
N8 !
No Blache!
I live in DC and have watched every Skins game for years. Blache is not the man that we want at the helm of our defense.
by NY Football Giants on Jan 4, 2010 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
What does he do bad?
I’m asking because I really don’t know.
From what I know, the Redskin’s defense has been the one thing sustaining them this year
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
that's my thoughts too..
I see the defensive rank..so I think they’re OK.
then again..aren’t the Giants “ranked” 10th in defense this year?
N8 !
Yeah the rank is not indicative
Everyone in DC knows that the rank is a joke. The reason the rank is so good because the Skins have turned the ball over so much the past 2 seasons that teams have short fields, which doesn’t allow them to rack up yards (which is probably the ranking you are talking about). Also, the skins are usually behind and teams play a bland offense of running the ball and punting since the skins aren’t capable of scoring much. When teams need a game winning drive against the skins, they almost ALWAYS get them. Trust me, Blache will frustrate us to death.
I live in DC too
His defenses are very UNaggressive. They sit back in coverage and play a “bend but don’t break” type of coverage. My friends (all skins fans) hate him more than Zorn.
To be honest I'd take a bend but don't break D
over the lay down and get runover and thrown over D the Giants had this year . . . LOL!
by Landeta on Jan 4, 2010 9:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Haha, that's true
Blache is better than BS, but if we are striving to be Super Bowl Champions again I don’t think he is the answer.
Strahan's commentary on SB42
he promotes “bend don’t break” constantly…
maybe you’re thinking Blache was “break don’t shatter”
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 5, 2010 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
Stats
Those stats are also very misleading. Teams have gotten up early on them and then put it in cruise control because the Skins offense is so anemic that teams just play the clock and field position against them. They know Campbell isn’t going to come from behind so they really just shut it down. That said, they’re defensive unit (DC included) is better than ours this year.
by NY Football Giants on Jan 4, 2010 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
...to all of you...
fair enough.
F Blache.
I always thought those in DC were talking about Andray Blache who they hate.
N8 !
Mara sealed it
Ed’s right – Mara put TC in a corner.
But the guy should go. Jauron or Capers. Any other nominations? The Giants are a cornerstone franchise. Can they lure a DC from one of the league’s better defenses? Maybe the guy from across town?
Across Town?
Mike Pettine? He’s the Jets DC but lets face it. The real DC is Ryan.
No Groh!
As a UVA alum I am extremely happy about his firing I can say we don’t want him in NY. He’s a 3-4 guy anyway.
by NY Football Giants on Jan 4, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
packers wouldn't let him out of contract
he’s only been there a year. haslett has been an abject failure pretty much everywhere he’s been, i don’t see him coming here. zimmer will most likely go where the big money is, washington. jauron is the most logical choice so far.
Haslett certainly did not do well as a HC ...
but I’m assuming he got those jobs due to a good rep as a DC. We really just need a DC who could stay for years and not be hired away like Fox and Spags. And one who won’t take any shit from the players, and can fire them up on the sidelines. Haslett may well fit that profile.
Haslett did plenty fine with NO, minus the disastrous Hurricane Katrina season...
…where he was forced to take on a much greater role than the job description entailed. Strip away that 3-13 season which lead to his ouster, and he was 42-38 in five seasons with one playoff victory. Not great, but not bad for a historically abysmal franchise…
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 4, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
Who would of ever guessed it...
I know that I did dating wayyyy back to the preseason, he just didn’t even start out on a good note, the whole disagreement with coughlin about being up in the boothe then the Osi thing, I’m just glad he is gone and I don’t feel bad we were ok on D yardage wise but we couldn’t tighten up in the red zone… I don’t care who we get just as long as they get us back to a top notch D!! Go Giants 2010!
time to root for whoever plays the Eagles and Cowgirls… go Eagles this weekend?? i guess.. screw them both! lol
In football, you can always maim a person if you wanted to. -L.T.
Perry Fewell
Did more with less than Jauron did.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Let's remember what we liked about Spagnuolo.
Coming from the Jim Johnson School Of Etiquette And Maiming Quarterbacks, Spags used to dictate what was going to happen. (Sorry for the sports cliche’.) The other guy always had to react to him. Seems to me, Sheridan did it the other way ‘round. Whoever we get, I hope he’s all about attacking.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
that was Tim Lewis vs. Spags
the D Gameplan that Tim Lewis installed was all about “Read & React” and the team really hated that. When Spags came in and installed an aggressive, attacking D the players really took to it and responded with a high level of play.
I just don’t think that the read/react style works in the NFL where everything happens so quickly.
nor is having
Chris canty in coverage 35 yds downfield.. yeah he may be in the right spot but how do you expect him or any of our lineman to make plays in the secondary
Reese made a great point:
Sheridan can’t tackle anybody. Players were in position to make plays, countless times, and FAILED. That is not Sheridan’s fault, though, as I’ve said, he has to go. This team needs a “character” infusion. It doesn’t have any right now. Lack of Sheridan will not bring it back. Don’t know if the total answer is replace the DC. It is part of it. But far from the whole.
It was a big part.
Reese (and you) are right – pride is on the players. It doesn’t take great coaching to stop an up-the-gut running play, it takes will. It takes 11 guys saying, “I don’t think so. You ain’t goin’ this way, son.” But having some kid from Backwoods State Tech trying to remember a bunch of signals instead of remembering to “Hit Man With Football” is not acceptable.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
Sheridan...
I don’t think he’s the worst DC ever.
But there was no way the Giants could keep him. I truly believe we wouldn’t give up 400 pts next year if BS was here. But it seems the players don’t respect him, and we can do better.
I agree with the people above, you win by dictating to the other team, and forcing them to react to you, not the other way around. QBs can’t throw the ball 50 yards down if they’re on their back.
In Chess, In Battle, In Football, you win by making the other team react to you.
Once you do that, you’ve won half the battle.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
he was close
Rod Rust was the worst i can remember… Read and react. ya mean wait til the play develops then try to chase down the guys with the ball that’s 20 yds behind you
by Flynner on Jan 4, 2010 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rod Rust LOL
He was the worst . . . AWFUL, BS and Tim Lewis were better than him.
Rust took one of the best Defensives ever and turned them into alo rans. Did you ever here Banks go off on the read and react D it’s priceless.
But you've gotta ask yourself ...
why would Giants management go from two of the best agressive DC’s we’ve had (Belichick and Fox) to two “read and react” disasters, and then go from super-aggressive Spags to the meeker Sheridan ? There does seem to be a trend here, no ?
Football (hell, most sports) is a game of aggression. On O and on D. If you can’t remember that, you’re f*#k’d.
by Shofner85 on Jan 4, 2010 7:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sheridan was supposed to run the same
system as Spags down to the T.
Now…the question is, is Sheridan just not as ‘instinctive’ as a leader of the D, someone they rally around like Spags?
…or has the defense that Spags himself put in just run its coarse?
Would Spags have adjusted? Did Sheridan just “do what Spags did” and not adjust or come up with anything?
N8 !
I just remember way too many 3rd and longs ...
where he dropped into coverage, with no attempt to bring heat, or at least bluff it. The play book may be identical, but the play calling was way more passive, until the last 3 weeks, when the season was pretty much lost anyway.
I think its just whatever Sheridan did..it didn't work.
They rushed with 4..like the GIants did with Spags…it didn’t work.
I remember they blitzed a lot on 3rd down too…it didn’t work.
They tried zone blitzes with the DE’s in coverage..it didn’t work (and this is nothing new for NFL D’s and the Giants…this is pretty common).
Nothing worked. Whatever it was…it didn’t work.
The bottom line is…the Giants basically had to save face by getting rid of Sheridan, but the REAL problem was players not being smart or tackling.
N8 !
This is a pretty good point...
…did you think people were starting to figure Spags out towards the end? I did.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
I agree 100%
Everybody lionizes Spags because he was was DC when we won the Superbowl. And that year when he had Strahan and Umenyiora and a secret weapon in Tuck that nobody knew about and Kawika Mitchell and a still functioning AP, the D was pretty good. By the end of 2008, however, the D without Strahan and Umenyiora stopped being effective. Teams adjusted to his blitz packages and without Strahan and Umenyiora the defense faded badly down the stretch.
Reese gave Sheridan a lot of weapons, but they were all broken. Canty, Boley, Bernard, Sintim. I honestly don’t think Spags would have fared too well with this patchwork defense. Strahan always got double teamed, leaving Tuck and others one on one. Now Tuck gets the double teams — and you can’t expect him to consistently beat them — especially with a torn labrum, and none of the other lineman can consistently (or even frequently beat their guy). No pass rush, and the weakness of the linebackers and secondary is exposed.
I’m not defending Sheridan. He may be a horrible DC, but what I saw most of the season was a defense that couldn’t tackle, that couldn’t shed a block and that took horrible pursuit angles. That’s not on him. Next year, most of these guys will be back, hopefully they;ll be stronger, healthier (maybe a little more dedicated too) and some new DC will look like a genius.
by Tucker Fredrickson on Jan 4, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
yea.
its funny how that works.
Many will be still blasting Sheridan for ‘wasting 2009’.
Especially if all the players are miraculously healthy?
N8 !
All good points
but tackling is an effort thing and we saw lack of effort under BS, I think that was the difference between late last year and this year. Guys like TT, Webster, Ross, and even Michael Johsnon seemed to tackle better under Spags to me for whatever reason they just gave a dam more with Spags.
Last year they were beat up a bit and figured out against the Eagles in the playoffs but they still forced a Saftey, picked off McNabb twice, and shutdown Westbrook and Jackson. Eli threw for a pick that was returned to the one. That D was only resposnsible for 16 points that day sure they were not what they were at their peak in 07 but they were playing their guts out, they never did that this year and thats part of the coaches job too and thats where BS failed. If the D was bad but improved and showed effort BS might have been able to come back but it just got worse it seems. Spags may of struggled with this D but I highly doubt they would of layed down like they have most of this season with him.
I hear what you're saying Landeta
And I quit on this team around the Denver game because it did look like they weren’t giving effort. But in thinking about, I find it hard to believe that these guys really quit (before the Minnesota game). I can’t imagine a whole team of professionals not playing hard in the Denver and Carolina games when the playoffs were still very much within reach. If that doesn’t motivate you, I can’t imagine anything a coach says making you play any harder. If anything I think the lack of someone like Strahan or AP who could get after guys right on the field and who inspired the kind of respect that players inspire in each other might have been some kind of factor.
I think these guys were trying, but that through injuries or lack of talent, they just weren’t able to get it done. Where I most blame Sheridan was in the one on one attitude that seemed to be prevalent. I think guys started freelancing a bit and he didn’t control that well enough.
by Tucker Fredrickson on Jan 4, 2010 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
Some good points
I especially about how our D was fading in 2008. But when you talk about poor angles, tackling, and shedding blocks it is on both the players and coaches. Not just the D Coordinator, but all the D coaches. Angles can be taught. Tackling and shedding blocks are definitely techniques that can be taught. So I think its a combination of players not executing and coaches not coaching and/or demanding results for their players.
yea I think they freelanced
becasue they did’nt believe in the system and that was part of the problem. Hell look at the Cowboys last year Brian Stewart was the DC they played poorley and lacked effort week in and week out then Wade took over late last year and this year they are a top 3 D . . . sometimes it’s just the players buying into the coach and thats what this new DC must do.
Scape Goat
I dont think this was entirely justified given all the injuries on the D, especially after only one year….but I just hope we dont get stuck with Jauron
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Crennel is all but signed in KC.
Pioli would like to surround himself with proven commodities from his past success in NE.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
We need and aggressive DC
a DC like Spags with the Jimmy Johnson(Philly) mentality, a lot of timely blitzes then supprise the O line with only four DEs as Spags did. that is has worked for this roster in the past
Mama there goes that MAN
How about Lovie Smith ...
if the Bears can him ?
Yeah, but I'm hoping that either a Fox or a Smith ...
if available, decides that a few years in NY as DC with a good team (with better than avg. coordinator pay), as a HC-in-waiting (you know, give them that “assistant head coach” label)for when TC is done, beats an immediate HC job with the latest train-wreck franchise.
Not all HC opportunities are created equal.
Actually Giants don't pay
coordinators well or as well you would expect. Thats a big reason they did not bring in Capers last year. Fox and Smith would command high salaries and I’m not sure Giants would pay it but who knows after Mara’s tirade maybe they will. And Mara loves Fox so maybe he would do it for him.
Yea but that was to keep him from going to Wash
and he just came off a SB so they kinda had too and he proved he was worth it that one season. I’m not saying they’ve never done it but the situation with Spags was very unique. It’s not there style when they bring outsiders in thats why they tend to promote from first time guys from within, Bellicheck, Jonny Lynn, BS or hire no-name first time corrdinators from the outside like Parcells, Groh, Nolan, Fox, Tim Lewis, Spags. If you look at there history they never seem to bring in a big name from the outside it’s usually home grown talent or young first time no-names and they’ve struck gold with more than a few of them.
That all being said I think becasue there is a past relationship with John Fox and Mara likes him a lot they would pay him but as we know it’s very unlikely he’ll be available.
Maybe that's something they need to re-think ...
As one of the top valued franchises in all of sports, they have an advantage in a capped NFL to not scrimp on the coaching staff.
Plus, if they only go with young up-and-comers, then they lose them when they succeed (Fox and Spags), and when they fail (Sheridan), no one wants them, including us.
True
but they still tend to skimp. The Mara’s don’t have money from other ventures like other owners so even though the franchise is highly profitable the Mara’s don’t have as much loose change laying around say as a Danny boy Synder or Jerry.
Wrong..
Look up Loews corporation. The Mara’s are billionaires from outside ventures. They are heavy into the Oil industry with offshore drilling. They just dont brag about it.
Really. I thought the Tishes owned Lowes movie theaters?
I had no idea the Mara’s had oil money? Well god-dam they better start paying for some coaches.
Tisch's not Mara's
Loews Corporation is a holding company run by the Tisch Family whose subsidiaries are engaged in the following lines of business:
* property and casualty insurance (CNA Financial Corporation, a 90%-owned subsidiary)
* the operation of hotels (Loews Hotels, a wholly owned subsidiary)
* the operation of offshore oil and gas drilling rigs (Diamond Offshore Drilling, Inc., a 54%-owned subsidiary)
* the operation of an interstate natural gas transmission pipeline system (Texas Gas Transmission, LLC and Boardwalk Pipeline Partners, LP wholly owned subsidiaries)
Absolutely correct.
The Tisches own half of the Giants, but the Giants have no part of Loew’s. Then again, half of the Giants’ ownership has big pockets. Then again again, is the money the non Giant half has available to the Giants? I assume the Loew’s Board of Directors would have to approve and I assume they’d give short shrift to the idea of being the cash cow for a football team.
Thats what I thought
I knew the Tiche family has money but I did’nt think it was used for the football team the way guys like Jerry and Danny use their personal money. I was always under the impression that the Mara’s only spend money that they made from football operations on the football team.
Tisch school of Art
At NYU.. They got big money and thats how Kate Mara got into acting… damn she is hot
In football, you can always maim a person if you wanted to. -L.T.
Tisch School of Art is personal
philantrophic money, not Loew’s money (although that’s it’s origin.) Would the Tisches treat the Giants as a philantrphical-worthy project? (I’m not suggesting you said they would.)
Good news?
Now we have to find a suitable replacement. I, personally would have preferred that TC & JR promote Giunta instead of Sheridan, last offseason, but apparently BS interviewed better as to what he wanted to do moving forward.
So here we are. I’d like Jauron or Olivadotti, as Capers is a 3-4 specialist(which we lack the talent for) and Haslett has never been a desired coach for my taste and never really successful. Olivadotti is a fresh talent while Jauron will get the most consideration, given his past with Coughlin. I just hope we keep Waufle and Giunta. I think Giunta exhibits the same intensity on the sideline that Spags did and Waufle has been great up until this year, when he had to coach the walking wounded. Merritt was doing a good job with Phillips, so he may be a keeper. Most of this is unlikely, with a new coordinator preferring a hand-picked staff.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I don't know who Olivadotti is
What’s he currently doing?
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
their lb’s are a good unit but ……. the last lb coach we hired as a DC was a bad fit LOL
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 4, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
could it be...
is that a light at the end of this dark tunnel i fell into in november? It’s been so dark in here… i, I feel like i can see again.
all kidding aside, i’m glad that expieriment is over. I had told several people that if he remained as d coordinator i was picking a new team and waiting for him to be fired before ever returning to watch another Giants game.
A Giant toxic cloud has lifted....
I have nothing against Sheridan in general, but he didn’t do the job, and probably shouldn’t have been given it as he was more exposed than CC Brown this year. It wouldn’t have changed much for this year firing him earlier and trying to change things in a third of the season, but I’m glad they didn’t do a waffle and waste a ton of time in a taffy pull over whether to keep him or dump him. Hopefully he gets another chance sometime in the future, particularly with either the Cowboys or Eagles. Now I hope they get someone who is both competent and a fiery motivator. My only worry about Jauron, is he seems rather emotionally removed too. But at least he might be competent. Anyway, a good first move toward cleaning up the problem, but as many, many others have said, Sheridan wasn’t the only problem and if a lot of the players had played to their potential, he’d have been exposed far less, and might still be employed. Somewhere on the player side, a heart transplant is in order.
it all boils down to i think..
it all boils down to i think the fact that he just couldn’t get the players to play at a respectable level consistantly , there were the flashes (few)of greatness(most recently washington game) but i bet that most coaches could do a better job adapting with injuries and getting players to play at a more intense level…his players constantly came out flat…granted no player leadership played a part but as the DC and coach you need to find another source even if it’s himself and he failed at that, maybe not by his own fault because he just may not have it in him…one thing i loved about spags(and most vocal coaches) he was always involved verbally in every play it seemed and got on his players for poor play which they seemed to respond to…thats my opinion from my couch and i bet if sheridan came over for dinner he would be able to make my head spin on defensive coaching and convince me to lay down in traffic for him
A winner
John Mara is a winner. He"s my man, a winner would not allow someone like BS in his team
very long. Now hopefully, in the future we can back to seeing the real Giant football.
Here's what pisses me off
The Giants should have demoted BS 4-6 weeks ago in an attempt to save the season. Please I don’t want to hear firing coaching mid-season doesn’t work. Firing head coaches mid-season doesn’t work. Coordinators are often demoted mid-season with varying results.
well...
varying results. That means it gets fixed..or even worse.
Maybe the Giants just didn’t feel they had to?
I get the general consensus that they didn’t feel that Sheridan was the biggest problem of the D. Take that for what you will, but maybe they just thought he could turn it around.
They may not have had an alternative either.
N8 !
could it
have gotten worse. I can’t envision anything worse than the last 2 games.
no..
it couldn’t.
I dunno..
Its hindsight..and at that time, it could be argued that either side was right.
Right now that is only hoping that a switch at that point would’ve worked.
It of course could’ve worked…it also could’ve turned out the same or even worse (6-10?)
N8 !
firing Mike Nolan and replacing him with Singletary mid-season worked...
…the Niners finished 5-4 under Singletary in a season where they were headed for a top 5 draft pick under Nolan.
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 4, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
Wait ...
I think they got the # 5 pick in the draft … Crabtree.
C'mon man ...
you don’t remember the whole Eugene Parker deal saying “he shoulda been # 5 and had to be paid as such” causing the big drama holdout ?!?
...which means 1-6 under Nolan.
Singletary helped turn that franchise around. The only missing piece now is a QB.
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 4, 2010 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
probably...
tho, Alex Smith is not all bad.
Given a TC as the undisputed starter, and Crabtree too (who’s pretty good for not having a TC) they could be very good next year.
They beat ARZ twice…
They also have 2 top 15 picks this year ( and I doubt one’s a QB)
N8 !
Yep
a lot of promising players on their roster – Pat Willis, Crabtree, Frank Gore, Vernon Davis…. If they make the right picks in the draft this year I can see them getting in the playoffs.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 4, 2010 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
I think they should pick Tebow.
If he’s around in the 3rd? On a Singletary-coached team? Backing up a guy who came from the same system as him? SF is one of the only places where he has a chance to thrive as a QB.
Pat Willis = BEAST.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
often times
coordinators are stripped of their duties mid-season without an announcement also. we really have no idea what happened this season in the coach’s offices.
if sheridan had been demoted or replaced though, what good would it have accomplished? TC grew up on the offensive side of the ball, you’d have to promote someone from within who is just as inexperienced as sheridan was.
the system would remain the same, because you can’t expect players to re-learn on the fly, you’d just be stuck with a new playcaller that doesn’t know the system as well.
had to be done
I’m glad Mara forced TC’s hand on this one…
I had so much expectations for BS at the start of the season, everyone kept telling me that the switch to a new DC would impact the Giants greatly and I kept defending BS outside BBV. And though the Giants’ D was injury riddled, good enough DCs know how to game plan and inspire his so called “troops”. He didn’t have it in him…He tweaked Spags D so much that it didn’t help his D, either during game day and/or to buy into his so called System with “wrinkles”. After weeks of checking out his post game interviews, I’ve noticed that he “BS’d” alot, and I don’t know if he’s just a bad interviewer, but I’ve always got the impression that things coming out of his mouth was more like it came out of his ass. Sorry to put it as such, but that’s just IMHO. I just wondered if he interviewed like that with TC last year…
Opus smart , lascivio magis , intereo gauisus...
how about?
how about bud foster from va tech. guys one of the best D minds in the game at any level. i know he just resigned with tech but hes worth a call. hes tired of living in beamers shadow
Spags
Can’t they beg him to come back then tell him, look when TC retires the team is yours??? Just a dream
you would think
that that idea and situation would have been considered before they let him get away.
There’s a lot about present day NFL culture that I really just don’t like, or even respect. The high turnover rate for coaches and players is a serious detriment to building and definitely keeping a squad of coaches and players who feel pride and take it upon themselves to give some loyalty to their team. A legacy team like the Giants should command the respect and dedication of it’s players and coaches. I think Tom Coughlin has it. I know he has it.
There’s too many guys on our team though, that sure as hell don’t have it and it ticks me off, lol!
Bloozer
Thats why there are not
any great teams anymore in the NFL just good teams that get hot. Seriously I think this years Colts or Saints don’t even compare to the SB champs of the 90’s 80’s and 70’s. They would get embarrased by most of those teams.
The trade off though is more competative seasons and playoff games. Remember back in the 80’s when you were’nt worried if the 1 seed would win but rather by how much? The NFL likes it better know becasue it’s better TV ratings and it generates more fan interest. But yea the caliber of play is not nearly what it used to be and a lot of that has to do with what you say lack of continutity and loyality.
and the salary cap
as well as the crazy amount of money 1st rounders want now-a-days
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 4, 2010 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
the money
is killing the game too. With all the dollars flying around there’s just no reason to even entertain the idea of sticking around with any one team when you know you can get your agent to shop you around the way they do.
It’s more than that though. Football is losing it’s aggressive edge with all the rules about hitting and tackling. The Tom Brady type player is ruining football, as far as I’m concerned. Then you have guys who don’t go all in on every play because they’re afraid of injury and the subsequent drop in value. It sucks man.
Bloozer
Gotta bring in a badass DC next year.
The D needs an attitude; an identity and a Rex Ryan, Mike Tomlin type is what’s required. I’m not sure who’s out there but I do like Fewell.
Perry Fewell is big on fundamentals and has a lot of experience teaching DB’s which is a big need for our backfield. He was assertive and seemed confident as HC in his few games at
Buff. He wouldn’t be a bad pick but I trust Reese and TC to find the right guy.
Thanks for the good years as our LB coach, Bill and I wish you well in your career.
by gr8kicks on Jan 4, 2010 8:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions
First interview question ...
Do you see yourself coaching from the sideline, or up in the press-box ?
Second interview question ...
a multi-choice question. Fill in the blank in the following sentence.
______ is the best form of defense.
a) attack
b) sticking your head up your a***
c) believing that you are competent when you are not
He was like a god walking amongst mere mortals. He had a voice that could make a wolverine purr and suits so fine they made Sinatra look like a hobo.
nothing...
but people immediately make the connection to coughlin b/c they were together in Jacksonville. And w/ Coughlin being as loyal as he is…..
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Yea Jauron is one of those NFL lifers
that has never accomplished much but is well respected becasue he’s smart (went to Harvard or Yale) and classy. He’s never done anything of distinction his D’s in JAX were not great at all. In fact JAX’s D improved after he left to take the Bears job and then Capers took over. I’m sure he’ll have a better feel for things than BS but the Giants had thei shot last year with both Capers and Greg Williams avaiblable they did’nt want to pay and it looks like their going the same route this year.
I think the last thing they need now
is another zombie on the sidelines. Jauron may be a decent DC, but to me he’s been a second tier presence in the NFL who seems to invite a lot of abuse. He reminds me of a punching bag.
No thanks. We can do better.
Bloozer
That's what I'm thinking
There is nothing impressive on his resume. The Jacksonville teams were known for their offense, not defense. There isn’t anything out there to tell you he will be a hit for us. I think we need to look to hit a homerun with this hire and I don’t think Jauron is that man.
Top priority
has got to be a motivator. I want an aggressive dude that’s animated on the sidelines and visibly invested in every damn play.
Bloozer
+1
If the defense doesn’t play angry, it doesn’t matter what plays you call. Swagger is everything, and if the defense is scared, its game over. Look what happened the first 5 games, the Giants knew they were the dominant team, but when New Orleans came, they were scared and it showed. And that’s on the DC.
by BigBlueIntervention on Jan 4, 2010 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
his resume
is pretty nebulous. he was with Jacksonville with TC for 3 years that they made the playoffs, with the lions he was hired as DC and promoted to head coach mid season. with the bears and bills as head coach he didn’t do much.
its tough to really tell because he was hired by terrible teams, but there’s gotta be something to the guy if he keeps getting opportunities, right?
He's kown as a very classy guy
and very intellegent, he went to either Harvard or Yale thats why he gets jobs.
he's a solid DC
He’s experienced, he’s well respected.
Really..there’s not many others out there who share that resume.
I doubt the Giants are going to be able and get the best DC in the game right now..cuz he’s probably employed in some fashion.
As far as available candidates…what Jauron brings is pretty good.
N8 !
Keep looking, there are better candidates
He’s respected cause he is a nice, smart guy. But he has not coached a team with a dominating or even good defense. I think taking Jauron would be settling. Big time.
alright...
I mean, I’m not 100% sure who’s gonna be out there.
Jauron I think runs a 3-4 anyway, so I dunno if that’s the best candidate (or maybe it is?)
I doubt I’ll ever get a full list of available DC’s for the job..or not the list that Reese (or Ed..) gets.
I mean…Jim Haslett’s out there..he DC’s the Steelers for a little while, tho right now he’s the DC or the Rams.
I dunno if I could 100% trust the team in who they hire after they basically are 1/3 for their last 3 hires….so we’ll see.
N8 !
haslett
was DC under scott linehan and took over before spags. think haslett is coaching in the UFL now.
for real?
…well, he’s definitely a fiery A-Hole type, and he’s had success as a DC (well..not in St.Louis, but that team’s a mess and that’s not Haslett’s fault).
I don’t think he’d be a bad choice.
Definitely a “name” tho…
I’d be interested to know if there are any ‘Spags’ out there. Some assistant well regarded by his staff who’s looking for a position. That may not be the best of ideas..cuz as soon as he’s any good he may leave the Giants like Fox and Spags did…
N8 !
Haslett was great in STL ...
his 2 wins that year were against the Skins and Boys.
Yea Haslett was a coach in the UFL
along with other legendary coaches Denny Greene, Jim Fassel and Ted Cotrell.
It’s wierd with guys like Haslett, he is a real nasty SOB that had some success but when I think of him I think looser and I don’t want any part of him. I mean I guess I feel the same way about Norv and Wade too and they are good Coordinators. Hell Cam Cameron was awful in Miami as HC and did well as Balt’s OC so who knows, I think I need to get over it.
I'm down with a quality DC ...
who failed as a HC. If he’s good as your DC, you have the postion covered for 5-10 years.
well here's some optimism...
Fox…Lewis.
Spags…Sheridan.
Seems every other DC is any good..well, in this case GREAT DC.
Seems were in the ‘good find’ section.
N8 !
It actually was
Fox – Jonny Lynn then when Fassel was fired TC hired Tim Lewis who was Pitts DB coach and Pitt had a terrible Pass D at the time so I’ll never understand that hire.
Well
this needed to happen and it happened, but I he’s still a human being and rejoicing it seems wrong.
Not rejoicing (well, I am really)
Part of the blame goes to the guy who put him there, presumably TC, BS was clearly out of his depth. However, I think BS must take some of the blame for not being more honest with himself and everyone else when he found out that it wasn’t working. How he can still believe that he has done a competent job is amazing, the man is either delusional or thinks we are all stupid. I blame him because he has been responsible for making me the laughing stock of my 17yr old son, who is a Saints supporter (maybe a slight exaggeration). The world has been turned upside down this year and I don’t like it. BS is to blame and I am happy that he is going to be moving on … I understand that Washington has an opening!
He was like a god walking amongst mere mortals. He had a voice that could make a wolverine purr and suits so fine they made Sinatra look like a hobo.
If Sheridan doesn't get another NFL job....
He can always look for a positon training Mastiffs. He has a lot of experience getting large bodies to roll over and play dead.
by Cranky50 on Jan 4, 2010 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and being the LB coach
on a SB winning team…..
he’ll get a job.
He may not ever get a DC job…or maybe he will?
He doesn’t exactly have a great resume…but I doubt that he won’t find a position coaching job….probably in St. Louis.
Who knows….maybe Sheridan will be the DC in St. Louis in 2011? He’ll coach from the booth..with all those unknown, unestablished players..and the Rams will lead the league in defense….
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know whether this is a stupid question (may well be)
Is there any real “left field” option. Looking from the other side of the planet I understand that coaching staff sometimes gets picked up from the colleges. Are there any gun DCs who are coaching college teams who would be able to do the job?
He was like a god walking amongst mere mortals. He had a voice that could make a wolverine purr and suits so fine they made Sinatra look like a hobo.
The transition from college and vice versa usually doesn't
go well. Pete Carroll has done wonders at the college level and so has Lou Holtz; both have failed miserablly in the pros (with the same team, the NY Jets.) Charley Weiss from Belly’s staff failed at Notre Dame. There are exceptions like Bill Walsh who was a great coach at San Fran and Stanford. Right now TCU has an awesome D. the coach is Gary Patterson. I doubt if he’d leave for a coord. job with the Giants.
Anyone for Rob Ryan?
Its possible he’s shown the door in Cleveland…tho its also possible if Mangina is sent packing, Ryan is named the HC.
He’s pretty much on par with his brother as far as DC’ing is concerned.
Probably a long shot…but if he just so happens to be on the market..Rob Ryan needs to be candidate Number ONE.
N8 !
I'm not a fan of Rob Ryan
he often puts his players in bad positions
besides he coaches a 3-4
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 4, 2010 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
yea...
just throwing it out there.
He’s actually not all that good…he’s just Rex’s brother and Buddy’s son.
He wasn’t all that good with the Raiders..and I thought the Browns D was better then it actually is.
Nevermind…
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
well
he was with the pats when their defense was pretty epic. and the problem in oakland the past few years has not been defense, they were pretty good on that side of the ball under ryan.
not sure if you can blame cleveland’s D on ryan, that’s just a terrible team right now. who’s he got to work with?
well..
in Oakland…I doubt anyone could work in that Org., especially during the Kiffen years. The D was miraculously 3rd in the league one year under Ryan.
Yea..the Browns stink…but they got Shaun Rogers?
I guess I dunno on Ryan.
If he’s out there (which is doubtfull), he should be a candidate.
Him a DC and his brother a HC, both in NY and the same stadium, would be interesting.
I don’t think it would be tough for Rex to give his brother some pointers?
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah...
there’s that dreaded 3-4 thing.
If we were running a 3-4, he’s pretty competent, and did well under the circumstances for Cleveland.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
I don't think they ran the 3-4 in Oakland did they?
no..they didn’t.
They kinda ran a 3-4’ish D, like the Titans did last year.
I think he’s more like Capers..in that he’d rather do the 3-4..but the 4-3 (or more specifically..the 4-6 like his daddy) is more what they run.
The whole ‘3-4’ thing is a bit blown out of proportion. If a guy knows defense…he knows defense.
You can run both.
Ryan runs the 3-4 in Cleveland cuz that’s who they have personnel wise.
I doubt that whoever the DC the Giants hire, pretty much regardless of what he’s run in the past..will run what he sees fit here for 2010 (going forward..who knows)
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
or maybe the whole 3-4 vs 4-3
was a bit of the reason for the friction in Oakland?
Its obvious that Lane Kiffen wanted to run the 4-3..but Ryan wants the 3-4?
I dunno…i just think that he knows defense given who his family is.
I don’t think he’s exactly had the team situations that his brother’s had with the Ravens and Jets.
Maybe with an org and team talent like the Giants, he could thrive?
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
does Bill Belicheck
have kids who are defensive assistents?
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
yes
rob ryan, romeo crennel, eric mangini….
McDaniels?
Weis?
How come all his kids are FAT?
I know McDaniels isn’t yet..but I remember when any of the above were with the Giants in the late 80’s, they were skinny…
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
Dick Jauron
is not the answer.
During his 4 seasons as Jax DC only 9 teams allowed more points. In that same stretch the best season the jags had was 16th in defense based on points allowed.
well...
his first season..they were an expansion team..so they had nothing but piles of crap on their defense. Evidence
His second season…rookies from their high picks..put the rest were POS’s
3rd and 4th seasons they were more mediocre 1997 1998
…point being…I wouldn’t take too much from his time as a DC in JAX. I mean..for heaven’s sake..in 1998 he had DAVE THOMAS AS ONE OF HIS CB’s!!!! I know you remember TOAST!!!
Jauron got HC gigs for a reason. He’s well respected and knows football. His claim to fame is defense…
He’s a lot like Coughlin, except for that defensive specialization.
I think the fact that he probably will not want a HC job any-time soon and will basically be around as long as Coughlin’s here as his right hand..mean he’s a good candidate.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
1997 and 1998
they had back to back 11-5 seasons.
THEN in 1999….
first season without Jauron they had the best defense in the league in points allowed.
Coincidence?
Incidentally the Jags DC in 1999? Dom Capers. Under Capers, the team went from 25th in 1998 to 4th in 1999 in total defense.
they signed Carnell Lake..
and EXCELLENT safety, from the Steelers..
Also, their other excellent safety, Donovan Darius, was a 2nd year player in 1999.
That’s an INCREDIBLE safety tandem.
They also signed Gary Walker, who seemed to help that D thrive. Kevin Hardy came of age in his third year.
Its impossible to say if the D under Jauron would be as good..but the pieces weren’t really there until 1999.
Look….is Jauron a GREAT DC? Probably not.
But there’s no doubt in my mind, that if Jauron could coach the D into the form that the 1997 and 1998 Jaguars were..which is basically average…this NY Giants team could be 11-5 too.
11-5 is good isn’t it?
And I’d go a further to say there is much more talent here then there was in Jacksonville those years.
ANd since Jacksonville…Jauron has had THREE Head Coaching gigs. He’s a lot wiser now.
Jauron is probably the IDEAL candidate…
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
another Dick..
Lebeau..is reguarded as one of the best in the game right?
Well in between his Steeler DC Jobs..he was the Bengals DC and HC.
Their defenses perrentially sucked balls….
If you don’t have the horses or the horses aren’t healthy…you aren’t gonna be good.
Dick Jauron had an expansion team’s talent for most of those 4 years in Jacksonville.
While the exact level of ‘talent’ here in NY is probably debatable…I don’t think there’s any doubt that these guys, with the right coach, could probably be a good unit again (they were in 2008….).
Jauron here in 2010..I dunno how they could do much better then that.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
Single Criteria for next DC
Coughlin thinks he is the best available guy for 2010 in making the D a strong group again.
No HC in waiting stuff.
Not 2011 on onward.
Best guy to take whats left, whats added, and have a strong D in 2010.
Because if the D don’t perform in 2010, TC is gone.
Good luck BS, you got a crappy hand. Hope you get another chance elsewhere and get dealt better cards.
Go get Haslett... I dont think he's too busy right now
His players loved him and played hard for him. He did a lot with few resources. Plus, you’ve got a guy you can slide in as head coach in 2 yrs when TC retires.
"Is everyone in my life freakin' bananas?" - Tony Soprano
that would be a dark day
a dark day indeed.
Buddy Ryan!!!
He’s available and likes an attacking D, right?
He may wanna work in same city as his kid.
And he does have a history working with the Giants Offensive Coordinator…
HAH!
I can’t blame him tho…sometime I wanna PUNCH Gilbride.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of Gilbride...
…is anyone else pissed off they only fired 1 coordinator today?
by helloooonoonan on Jan 4, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Can't fire KG
Americans with Disabilities Act.
He has a strange form of dyslexia where he interchanges “Jumbo Short Yardage” with “Shotgun Spread, 4 Receivers” anytime its 3rd and short.
Seriously though, would love him to be gone, but think they’ll wait to see if he gets a HC spot for him to save face and let G-men look good.
by Joshua4Giants on Jan 4, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
Not gonna happen
His offense was way too predictable this year. How many times did we see a man in motion lead to the entire defensive line shifting the the same side of the field Jacobs was going? Not only is his decision making questionable at best but his refusal or inability to make adjustments is inexcusable and should be a firable offense. I hope you’re right about him getting a HC offer, but not even Daniel Snyder is that stupid.
by helloooonoonan on Jan 4, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
+1
kg isnt going anywhere though… he is plain jane but this has been eli’s most productive season in his career and the giants offense has single handedly one a few games this year…
although our talent could be utilized better by a different coordinator… i dont see the giants taking a chance when the giants O has been under the radar from the malicious defensive play
don't be surprised tho...
I believe 100% that the decision, above everyone…is Eli’s on Gilbride.
N8 !
Never thought of it that way.
Sound idea. Watching them on the sidelines you get the impression they’re quite simpatico. Suppose KG goes to Oakland? Would you think that the same would be true? I don’t. He’d have a voice, but certainly not the most important one.
well..
Its Gilbride’s choice of course where his career takes him.
..his contract is up…The Owner, Mara is saying no one’s safe and no one’s spared.
There is a decision on Gilbride whether to come back or not…if he’s not a HC.
I think if Eli..pretty much the most important part of the team, is happy with Gilbride…I think that’s what matters most.
Or at least Coughlin..the one who will have final say, will take Eli’s thoughts into account above all else.
Bottom line..if Eli’s happy with Gilbride, they’ll make an effort to retain him.
As a fan…I wouldn’t shed a tear if he left. I don’t think his offense is the problem…but I do think there are some problems and that he’s probably been more of a detriment to Eli’s slow development to be what he is now.
N8 !
I don't want a retread
I want a young up and coming coach and I am hopeful that the Giants will have Perry Fewell in the mix.
The guy is relatively young and he has coached for playoff teams. He did a good enough job in a bad situation as an interim coach with the bad Bills that he would be considered for the job if Ralph Wilson wasn’t interested in making a big name hire.
He was a defensive backs coach when he was a position coach, an area that has been a weakness for the Giants for some time now.
Also, he worked with Tom Coughlin in Jacksonville from 1998-2002.
Even though he’s a youngish guy, he still has more experience than Spags had when we hired him. Plus he might be ready now to be a head coach so it would be good to have someone with head coaching experience/talent for when Tom calls it quits which will be sooner than later (or, if next year is like this one, is politely asked to leave).
i say ride this wave and let the ship sail....
lets wait.. wait mr walsh, reese and co… let the bottom feeders get some limelight and wait for the big fish to come out .( too much fishing analogy lol)
anyway.. i think we should keep contact with the ones that are capable of coming in right now and then wait to hear from the more experianced dc’s to show interest.
anyway.. i think we should keep contact with the ones that are capable of coming in right now and then wait to hear from the more experianced dc’s to show interest.this decision is BIG as bill sheridan has proved us, and the giants org. should interview every possible candidate.. that my opinion
First of all, WOOHOO!
Although, to some degree I can se ethe point of the few apologists we have. As I’ve said before, Sheridan was doomed to failure very early. He was undermined by TC by forcing him to be a sideline coach. He was undermined by AP in that mix as well. He was punked by Osi U. He lost his stud safety early and had shit back there all season. He had overpaid, underperforming DTs in what was supposed to be a vaunted D-Line. Spags had Strahan, a good secondary, a good D-Line, better linebackers.
Nonetheless, he was not up to the job, not respected by the players, and I’m glad he’s gone.
However I think most of you guys are stone crazy with your drooling speculation about Capers — who is UNDER CONTRACT, 0% possibility, and runs the wrong style defense for our personnel… DUH; about Fox, a quality proven NFL head coach who’s going nowhere from Carolina … about a lot of these guys. They are more than pipe dreams. They are a 0% probability. So are these silly names being bandied around like Haslett. We don’t need some dumb ego, either. The only high-profile name that makes any sense is Dick Jauron, who probably can’t get hired again as head coach and has ties to Coughlin. Whether he’s any good, I don’t know.
Fact is, they’re going to have to do this the good old fashioned way: Find an unproven guy with talent and fire who has the right system for the personnel, and give him a shot.
You play to win the game!
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