'Kudos & Wet Willies:' Thank God it's over edition
by Ed Valentine on Jan 4, 2010 6:00 AM EST
in Kudos & Wet Willies
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PrintWell, our New York Giants completely embarrassed themselves for a second straight week on Sunday. Thank God this season is over. I can't watch any more non-efforts that make me ashamed to be a fan of this team.
That said, now let's get on with the final 'Kudos & Wet Willies' of the season.
Kudos to ...
Yes, believe it or not, I found at least a few performances worthy of 'Kudos' amidst Sunday's wreckage.
- Ahmad Bradshaw: I could care less about his final numbers (7 carries, 13 yards, two catches, 33 yards). What I care about is that Bradshaw, on two broken feet and two bad ankles, was out there playing his guts out. If the guys on the defensive side of the ball had tried that hard, maybe the Giants would not be a laughingstock right now.
- Steve Smith: 10 catches to put him at 107 for the season, the first Giants receiver to crack the 100 mark in a single season. Only 57 yards, though? C'mon, Steve, how about you work on 'catch and run' instead of 'catch and collapse?'
- Eli Manning: Again, this one is not because Eli was brilliant Sunday. He wasn't. This one is for surpassing 4,000 passing yards for the first time in his career. And for surviving some awful offensive line play.
- DJ Ware and Ramses Barden: First career touchdown for Ware, and first career reception for Barden.
Wet Willies to ...
- Bill Sheridan: The Giants finished a historically bad defensive season by surrendering more than 40 points for the fifth time. They surrendered 427 points, second-most in franchise history to the 501 surrendered in 1966. That was a 14-game season. The Giants need a bevy of changes on defense. Starting with a new coordinator.
- The entire defense: Pitiful effort. Every player on that side of the football should be completely ashamed not only of Sunday's loss, but of the entire season of ineptitude.
- Tom Coughlin: I love TC, and I have defended him a number of times. Carl Banks said repeatedly on the radio Sunday, that it was not Coughlin's fault that the Giants completely tanked the last two weeks. Yet, when a team basically quits the last two weeks of the season the head coach has to take a hit. TC talked about accountability last week, and he has to be held accountable when his team fails to give effort. Especially since it happened several times this season. Coughlin deserves to be back next season. But, the Giants have gone backwards for a year-and-a-half now. That trend needs to change.
- Offensive line: Awful work by David Diehl, who was pretty much a sieve on the left side. Will Beatty struggled on the right side, too. And there was no push in the middle, either. Thank God Eli didn't get killed.
(E-mail Ed at bigblueview@gmail.com)
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I'm on the fence now about TC and tipping
toward joining the let’s get rid of him voices. Recognizing there’s no way he’ll be fired (and perhaps deservedly so), I’m not going to waste my own and everybody’s time by entering the inevitable discussion re whether he should stay. The game demonstrated that we have more than the D to concern us. We need a real OLT and it doesn’t look like Beatty will be it. Diehl has done a decent job, but if we can find anyone to fill his spot I’d like to see him shifted back to G where he’ll excell. Problem is that the primary focus has to be the D.
Disagree on Beaty…that kid is gonna be a beast…Diehl @ guard wld help but even big booty boothe was better @ times than Rich S…
Our pick shld be in the mid teens
A saftey a DT , OL…in that order although saftey & dt can be flip flopped….
i dunno maybe I just like the colors
by Mr.Williams on Jan 4, 2010 7:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I dislike the idea
of saying ‘you have to take a certain position in a certain round.’ That’s how you end up drafting the wrong players. I think DT is the biggest need. But, as long as the Giants priority is defense in the draft I will be fine with it.
We're probaly better off
taking the best D player available, given we need help on the line and with LBs and DBs.
Last year I thought the biggest D priority was S, now T edges it out
Am I the only one who wants to trade up for Berry
Thats what smart teams do…..When a player of his caliber enters the draft they do whatever they can to get him.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 4, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
Ed has mentioned
how impressed he is by how familiar BBVers are with the rosters of other teams. I feel the same way, including as well familiarity with the draft pool. I have no idea who Berry is.
Berry...as in Fred Berry???
a.k.a., “Rerun”???
Why don’t we suit up Dwayne and Rog as well? They could probably play better than our guys on D at this point!
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 4, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Trading up
I am rarely a fan of trading up. I almost always prefer trading down and getting additional picks. The Giants need lots of help on defense, not just one specific player. I think, as usual, I would like to see the Giants trade to add more picks if they can. ‘Smart’ teams realize that the NFL is about depth, not 1-2 players. The Giants have always tried to build that way, and this year the lack of depth was exposed.
depth vs. quality
They had plenty of depth on the d-line after the signings last offseason, but it was a mediocre group at best. They also had depth at corner and LB. The only position on D without depth was at safety. Clearly, they have shown that quality is more important than quantity. Philips’ injury was devastating, but it would have been easier to take if they had a pass rush and a linebacker capable of covering someone.
I agree with your earlier comment that we shouldn’t look for a particular position in a particular round. Develop a list of needs and then select the best player available to fill one of those needs each time you pick. If you don’t have a good value to fill a need, then talk about moving down.
Amen to that, couldn't have said it any better
Besides, the Giants historically haven’t been a trade up team, At least in the first round. But considering Berry is a top 5 lock and the Giants are picking 15th, thats a ways to go for one player. Now, just think about what we gave up to SD for Eli? Though it was for a franchise QB and a few slots, what would we have to give up for at least a 10 slot move? Pretty steep probably!
yes...
you probably are.
He’s a good player…but the Giants need players. Emphasis on (S).
What if Berry gets hurt? Then they gave up a bunch of picks and players for nothing.
Trading down is a better idea.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Berry
I would NEVER trade up, or take a Safety, Guard or TE in the first round. First round picks are too important. Slow corners can be good safeties. Tackles who can’t play can be guards. TE is a complimentary position. Use first round picks on people that have to be pure at the hardest positions – CB, DE, OT, QB. Its not a coincidence that these are what is most in demand in the high rounds.
Personally, I think our biggest need is an impact DT If we are going to trade up, I would trade up for Suh and use OSI as a bargaining chip to do so.
Rephrase..
I meant I would never trade up for, or take a safety, guard or TE in the the first round.
Ed Reed & Polamalu
first round pick safeties.
The 2 best defenses of the 2000s?
Steelers & Ravens
You don’t think there is a coincidence?
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 4, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Earl Thomas...
S, Texas. 5"10, 200lbs.
Runs a 4.4. Is a playmaker.
The Giants could possible trade back for him.
I’d think this is a good choice, no?
N8 !
only question is...
as a redshirt sophmore, is he really ready and is he actually gonna enter the draft?
Talent is there…
N8 !
In today's NFL.
SS is the most important position.
Nice point
the Giants seem to buy into the certain psoition in a certain round thing. Sintim was the first LB they’ve drafted in the top 3 rounds In a very very long time I belive. The Giants seem to load up on WRs, DE’s, and CB’s in the first 3 rounds, no wonder those are the only positions we have players at.
D needs to be priorty 1 in both FA and draft but don’t be shocked if they go O-line or RB in the early rounds of the draft for a couple reasons.
There is some depth a O-Tackle in this years draft so they might be able to get a very good one where they are drafting.
This team seems to be about Eli not about building a well rounded team. A lot of their moves FA’s and draft since 04 have been to help Eli and might continue to be.
They might think that if guys come back from injury and they get a new DC the D might only need a few pieces instead of the overhall that we as fans seem to think so in their eyes the best way to stay competative for 2010 might be an explosive RB on O to make the running game complete so they can win with O in 2010 like the Colts do and the Pats do.
You mean nose tackle, don't you??
No better time than right now to take the plunge with the 3-4 defense. Did you see how Pittsburgh used it yesterday? With the right talent it is the best defense against the offenses we are going to see for the next few years.
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 4, 2010 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
We.dont.have.the.players.for.a.3-4.
Tuck cannot fit in a 3-4 at all, Umenyiora does not fit in a 3-4 either, we don’t have any ILB’s for a 3-4 either, AND a 4-3 is generally better against the pass
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 4, 2010 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
There's also Jay Alford to consider
W/ his absence plus last year’s free agency, I don’t think they’ll go after a DL first. To be honest, I think we need to go after some veteren leadership, more than anything else.
MLB
is as important as any of those positions … Goff showed some potential, but not enough to be considered THE guy. Though it is a position that can likely be filled via FA.
Anyway, Ed is right. Plus the Giants have shown that is their usual way of thinking, although last year they were obviously targeting WRs early.
I didn’t think Beatty was bad yesterday either. He got beat a couple of times, but not nearly as much as others (cough, cough Diehl) and made a couple of outstanding blocks (one on an Eli roll out).
I'd like to see Goff and another guy from the draft / FA
compete for the starting job in OTA’s and training camp
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 4, 2010 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
Beatty might just be the next Jumbo Elliot
Don’t forget he has only had very limited play. I think he is fine.
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 4, 2010 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
I think he deserves a shot in training camp.
I’m just not as sure about him as you seem to be. The point is moot, anyway considering all the holes in the D. We’ll probably go for no more than some depth on the O line, like late draft picks or veteran FAs who might have a year or two left. That worked quite well as a stopgap measure with Parker and Brown.
One thing about Beaty
It takes time to play O-line in the NFL, I think as Giant fans we can’t expect all of the rookies to come in like they did in 07 and be very good. Winston Justice was humliated his first NFL start, he’s turned into a nice player. D’Brichashaw Ferguson has struggled but is developing into a good player. I think we just have to sit tight and let these guys play and get better and live with the ups and downs for a season, we can’t just put band-aid on some of our issues
+1
As I noted above, Jumbo Elliot started out very slowly as well.
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 4, 2010 9:30 AM EST up reply actions
Telling Comment by Cofield
when he mentioned as a positive that Bill Sheridan stood up to some of the “intimidating, well-established” players in the locker room. Hmmmm… sounds like guys didn’t buy into his program this season. One of the many reasons to explain the defensive collapse.
On the other hand, when your season is on the line, after some piss-poor performances, you decline to show any effort at all, you as an NFL player need to be held accountable for it. You are after all drawing a paycheck for an expected level of competency. That is inexcusable and should show with some upcoming cuts.
I think that
Cofield even says “intimidating, well-established” players, you get the idea that the players didn’t respect him.
They thought their shit don’t stink. That actually sounds like an Osi tirade waiting to happen.
These guys are all still good…they just aren’t as good as they think they are.
Cuz that #92 guy WAS as good as he thought he was….and they were all great cuz of him.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
But explain this....
Ok, so he stood up the “well-established” players… You mean, the players that were on an impact defense that helped the team WIN a Superbowl? That KNEW what success was, felt like, and what it took to make that happen?
I don’t know, if you ask me, I am more inclined to believe that the “well established” players on this team WITH a ring were less of the overall problem than players like Canty, Bernard, Boley et all who came in from the outside as underachievers with other teams who got paid, and DON’T have a winning, successfull pettigree.
its more that they
bought into their own reputation too much. They didn’t want to try and work with Sheridan..as evidence by the fact he was constantly on his own, with the defensive playbook, with his own thoughts.
Maybe it was Sheridan..maybe it was the players not wanting to work with him? Not all the players..but it needed to be all the players.
N8 !
I think the most embarrasing
thing I saw a few times was Viking receivers catching the ball and falling to the ground and Giants’ defenders stood there within arm length’s distance and didn’t touch them to down them. They couldn’t even be bothered to bend over and touch them. I’m so disgusted.
Agreed, Pot
Cofield can say nice things about Sheridan if he wants. But that unit quit on him. They did not even give a professional effort on Sunday.
Yea I remeber a lot of guys on the 03 Giants
were saying nothing but great things about Fassel when they decided to mail it in that season too.
Well said, Ed.
I think your recap summed it up well. I have never seen a Giants team quit like that on the defensive side of the ball. It was embarrassing to say the least.
As for the draft, I’d like to see an MLB, safety, and OL come out of the early picks in some order, agree with Ed to take the best available, within reason (we obv. don’t need a WR in the first no matter who is available). Think we have too much money invested in Canty and Bernard to spend high on another DT. Especially with Cofield and Alford coming back, maybe they just need a better system/more time to establish themselves. Plus, you have to wonder if Canty’s hammy problem slowed him all year, same for Bernard’s knee.
When can we...
at least expect to see Sheridan fired? I hope soon, as in 20 minutes soon. This season was a disaster. That is about all I can stomach to write at this point. I hope we have a good weekend in April, because this team needs it.
im still feelin sick
from the past couple weeks.. everyone has stated that the D has quit on Sheridan.. I agree. It has been obvious. Giants need to rid Sheridan of DC. There is no reason i can fathom in why keeping him would be a good decision.
Tthomas looked like a nickel corner yesterday..and against Carolina.. ima ross fan and i thiknk ppl have forgot how good he was for us in such short time.. i hope his achilles heals properly.
Draft focus should be on dt and lb.. if no one is there trade down and get more picks.. or trade up and grab the guy u want. this team does not have many holes so we should go and get the “hole fillers” and be AGGRESIVE for once. in jerry i trust
You mean Phillips, right?
not Ross. Ross has a hamstring, phillips a knee. I don’t know of a giant with an achilles problem besides Brown, the rookie RB.
Bleeding Blue since 1962
Knicks are playing good...
given the Giants..as well as the Cowboys blowing out the Eagles..and the Jets blowing out the Bengals.
..the Knicks blowing out the Pacers was the only highlight of Sunday.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
more than the draft
I think it’s worth considering a trade up to get Berry. But from what I saw the last couple of weeks, I think they need to find an established veteran leader (more than one) in free agency to fill the void left by Antonio Pierce. They need someone who’ll hold the other players accountable, and I don’t think it’s a rookie. There are a lot of good individual players on that defense, but there was nothing holding them together, which is really an indictment of Tuck, Osi, and the other vets, who return to the sideline and stare at their feet while a game unravels.
last time Osi tried to be vocal
he got benched
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 4, 2010 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
Good point Blum..
Look how Dallas has played since Brookings showed up on the scene..Leadership on the field is very key, and a rookie is not going to provide that.
Can't we just clone LT?
Course, that alone wouldn’t help them. W/ LT, Harry Carson, and Carl Banks in attendance (among others) for their last game ever in the stadium that bears their name, w/ the playoffs on the line, they gave that gutless performance last week.
clark & rouse
i agree the entire defense deserves a wet willie, but i also think these two guys deserve special consideration. they were absolutely dreadful.
rouse – look at every touchdown the vikings scored and look for #26, what on earth is he doing.
clark – is a 10-year veteran yet still doesn’t know who to cover, he left shiancoe wide open a few times to cover someone elses guy.
Our secondary got whooped by a Master QB...
Favre with his head fakes and that arm..He left our guys with their pants around their ankles all day…I wonder how him and Childress is getting along today..
but...but...but Clark notched a sack!
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 4, 2010 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
Thank Gawd
Rouse & Clark will not be giants next season!!
by Late for Dinner on Jan 4, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Trading up has been 50/50 results-wise.
I think a player has to stilll be a steal at a draft spot for JR to even consider trading up in the 1st rd.
I think our biggest problem on our D has been the D-line, which exposed our LB & DB corps. We need to become more stout in the middle.
Our LB group will probably surprise people this next year. They never got the chance to be the unit we envisioned due to Sintim learning a new spot, Boley not being 100% and AP getting hurt. AP was playing well up until the injury and Goff was playing good ball in his stead, but still needs reps to grow into the position.
We’ve also got a great secondary that could never stay on the field as a unit. Phillips coming back healthy will be a big boost and we could get a good safety in FA or the draft to tandem with him. TT played well when he wasn’t the only talented CB out there, Bruce Johnson was a nice surprise as well.
Sheridan, was more the issue than what is on the surface. The entire defensive unit would have taken a bullett for Spags. I believe this group would move out of the way for the BS’s assassins. Dick Jauron would be a good fit, seing as Crennel will be going to KC. Let’s bring Armstead up from player development to coach the LB’s. I am very happy with the other D coaches, Waufle, Giunta & Merritt.
Sound good?
Bleeding Blue since 1962
I don't think its only Sheridans fault
yes, he is terrible but one coach cannot make the difference from a good defense to a bottom 3. The talent that we thought this unit had was clearly a false dawn.
Lets look at them closer
Tuck is better as a pass rushing DT than a pass rushing DE
Cofield is an average run stopper
Robbins is old, Canty has not showed much, Bernard FA BUST
Umenyiora is overrated, Kiwanuka…..oh dear what a bust
Boley has a bad football IQ to go along with his physical talents
Pierce’s body is worn out, Goff doesn’t even know how to tackle….
Sintim couldn’t beat out Danny Clark for the starting spot…How is Clark even in the league? He is awful
Webster has been getting abused all year
Michael Johnson is about as clueless as a safety can be
Phillips …. if this year’s knee injuries are anything to go by (hint: they should be) then don’t expect much from this guy next year
Thomas has played generally OK this year but against #2 receivers thats not that much of a task
So I think we should just be happy that we had a defensive genius like Spags could help us have a successful few years
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 4, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
that was so depressing to read.
there is no reason to live.
We were fortunate to have Spags
But to think for a moment that the long list of problems would seem remote under Spags. Spags was an emotional DC that got the best out of his players, compared to BS, who looked more like an expressionless mime. Players responded to Spags, so i would find it hard to imagine the list being so dramatic.
one coach cannot make the difference from a good defense to a bottom 3
Not true, all you have to do is go back to our 2006 defense on Tim Lewis’s defense was ranked 25th overall 28th against the pass and 14th against the run. The next year the giants ranked 7th overall 11th against the pass and 8th against the rush.
Lewis and Spags had basically the same players on the field.
Obviously some players must go, but our defense massivly underachieved this year, and let’s face it the defense quit on Sheridan.
So it’s not unrealistic for the Giants to be able to fix their D with a lot of the same players and a new coordinator that has a good scheme but most importantly he gets the players to play hard for him.
by Late for Dinner on Jan 4, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
I thought the Tim Lewis D was
a lot more middle of the road then that. Guess not.
Injuries, a 1st year DC…probably more-so the injuries, made this year happen.
I mean…I actually believe that if they re-tooled the D and let Sheridan have another year, that they’d be better. Good even.
Its just its been so bad this year, they have to cut ties. Maybe they keep Sheridan on as a position coach…probably not.
They probably have to gut the whole staff on the defensive side.
Special Teams ‘staff’ has to go too. The kickoff coverage is atrocious (its not just Tynes you know…)
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Lewis is no Spags
but Lewis’s problems in 06 had a lot to with injuries and players did not like him. Strahan, Osi, Tuck all missed a big part of the season. The D was not great but solid in 05 with Lewis. I only bring this up because I think it shows how bad of a job BS did this year when Tim Lewis was an upgrade and he got nothing out of the DB’s
by Landeta on Jan 4, 2010 12:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Boley
If you want to see an example of how bad Sheridan has it, roll the tape and watch the Vikes first TD to Shiancoe..
Boley is on the outside, and there is NOBODY on his side of the field. Shiancoe comes across the formation towards Boley and then heads out into the open flat. Boley immediately heads INSIDE at the snap, and doesn’t even LOOK at Shiancoe….. As someone who has played alot of ball, I don’t even understand how this type of thing can even happen, really, its not natural from a players perspective…….How can you have the outside responsiblity and not even LOOK at the only player on your side of the field??
Really, I mean come on. It was the same when CC Brown just lets DeShaun Jackson run right past him with no other responsibilities.
Has anyone actually watched Michael Johnson try to tackle, its laughable.
How does Goff miss the tackle on a guy right in his lap over the middle?
I agree Sheridan sucks and has to go, but some of these guys are beyond belief.
I’ve seen more defensive gaffes this year than in my lifetime of watching this team.
How can it happen?
To me, that is on the players not being smart enough to recognize formations and responsibilities. Boley did not meet his responsibility on the play you mentioned.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 4, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
boley is good
yea he could’ve done better on that play, but watch aaron rouse run all the way from the endzone past boley and every other giant who bit on the fake. i agree at least one of them should be playing contain, boley has proven to be good in coverage but maybe it was his assignment, who knows.
the bottom line is on all the vikings big plays, there’s at least one giant who dont know where he’s supposed to be, which is ultimately on bill sheridan.
Thank you dubsrub
I’ve been preaching for a while on here about how terrible Michael Johnson really is. Not only can he not tackle, he’s never in position and tries to blame his f-ups on everyone else. I can’t stand him, the fact that we actually drafted this schmuck (even in the 7th round) makes me question JR’s abilities.
I dunno about that...
MJ was actually a damn solid S in 07 and 08, I dunno where you getting at with that.
This season he’s taken about 20 steps back when he should be improving.
Probably has a lot to do with the fact he has to play with clueless players like CC Brown, Aaron Rouse and Dockery back there.
From what the Giants have gotten out of Johnson before this season, was a testament to Reese as an excellent drafter.
While its possible Johnson’s as good as gone…its also more probable he comes back and is given an opportunity to re-prove himself.
N8 !
Trading Up
50/50 is a good point
Look at the Jets. Trade up for Dwayne Robertson he sucked, Trade up for Revis he’s an allpro
by Landeta on Jan 4, 2010 12:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Giants traded up for Shockey too didn't they?
I think they probably could look at the idea of it…but definity it would be a real stupid idea to trade up to top 5.
They need all their picks…probably more.
N8 !
Yea I think you're right
but it was only one or two spots so they really did not give up much and they were drafting in a similar spot as this year.
not that it matters but how
does favre run 40 yards down the field after an IN completion….snap the ball and get a play off before the giants staff realized the WR didn’t get both feet in bounds. .
like i said, it really doesn’t matter but it’s hard to blame the players for mailing it in when it’s pretty clear that the coaching staff has done the same.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
+1
Was really surprised they didn’t just throw in all the rooks/backups and at least see what they had if they didn’t care about winning the game anyways.
more about individual records.
once Eli hit 4K he was outta that game.
They shoulda done the same w/ Steve Smith but i guess considering he was the only bright spot they let him stay in.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Eli showed
some guts yesterday. The receivers for Vikes come back and fight for the ball. All, and I mean ALL, of the receivers for the Giants WAIT for the ball. This passivity is not confined to the receiving corps but is epidemic through the entire roster. We note it more on the defense because defensive players are, oddly enough, more offensive by nature than players on offense. My point is that attitude is the basis for all good action, whether it be in football, accounting, or a good bead in welding. That attitude starts at the top. And the coaches have allowed this team to become demoralized through the encouragement of a passive attitude. Sheridan on the sidelines was and is the very picture of passivity. Sheridan is a manager not a coach.
First thing the Giants need do is revamp coaching staff. I think Coughlin and Gilbride should stay. Sheridan must go. All other coaches from strength through the SPECIAL teams coach must be evaluated and possibly replaced.
Second is the defense, which I believe has fair to good talent but does need help at critical spots. I would start with safety, then linebacker, then tackle.
Third is the o-line. Some addition here from lower rounds could help.
Fourth is a look at running back more for depth than replacement.
I think the receivers will be good IF SOMEONE coaches a better more OFFENSIVE attitude into them.
Coughlin duty is to change the the attitude of this team FIRST through coaching leadership, then through veteran player leadership.
If nothing else, at least I feel better now.
by Jolly on Jan 4, 2010 10:25 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Nicks
At least has showed at times this year that he has the instincts and aggressiveness to go up and take the ball away from a defender. Steve Smith will also occasionally wrest a ball away from a CB before crumpling to the ground (I’m thinking particularly of a play on the opening drive of the KC game where he took an INT away from the guy covering him).
I completely agree with your coaching and draft need assessments, get this defense some hungry playmakers please!
by SonictheHedgecock on Jan 4, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
Agree
that Nicks shows some natural aggressiveness, that with the right coaching could lead him to be a very good to possibly great receiver. I like Steve Smith but maybe we should name him the Crumpler. Though he had only one catch, I liked how Barden snatched the ball from the air and ran for a little more.
Special teams coach...
DEFINITELY has to go.
I’d even say the ST coach has to go before Sheridan.
They suck on ST. Absolutely suck. Chase Blackburn is basically the only one who plays. These guys don’t tackle or shed blocks on ST…and no one seems to be teaching them how…
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
I also think
Running back is a bigger need. The Giants couldn’t run the ball…AT ALL for too much of the season.
Jacobs and Bradshaw are always injured..they are productive and talented..but always injured.
The best running back tandem in the game (and it probably was last year too, just the Giants got more credit for theirs) is the one in Carolina. They have 2 first round RB’s.
The Giants probably were gonna draft Knowshon Moreno last year if he fell to them…so why not look at someone like Jahvid Best? Hopefully its round 2..but even round one.
Best or CJ Spiller, the Giants are drafting high enough at #15 where they could get one of these guys.
Maybe they are that Tiki Barber type running back (tho Best and Spiller actually have HR hitting speed) they really need?
RB’s a big need. They have 4 on the roster..but all 4 have their questionmarks.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
JR should fire himself
if he drafts a RB after our defense gave up 26.7 points per game
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 4, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Never get to high or to low
We have some fixing to do on D that’s for sure, however I think we should be worried about the RB position going into next year. If Jacobs does not bounce back and we only have Bradshaw, or an injury happens to one of the two or both we could be in deep doo doo at that position. JR should evaluate that position and if neccisary draft another RB
by Late for Dinner on Jan 4, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Truthfully
Whats JR to do if say Spiller fell and was the best available and he had no suitors to trade with? Do you pretend that the whats available, and they’re graded out to a lesser extent are better, because they are needs? It seems illogical to draft a RB first, but you can’t cheat yourself on basis of needs first, then luxury later!
The defense gave up 26.7 points....
maybe cuz the offense couldn’t chew up clock?
The Giants had ZERO running game. Maybe the entire passing game takes another step forward and doesn’t really need a real effective running game.
…but to get a player like Best or Spiller? That’s not a bad move.
The only thing a rookie in round one, on defense, would do, is be a name. They’ll help eventually…but probably not right away.
A rookie RB, if he’s the BPA (like Best or Spiller probably would be) wouldn’t be a bad idea..not at all.
Especially if they manage to trade back and stockpile a pick or 2.
This is a deep draft defense wise…but not RB wise.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Well FB, you know how i feel about our RB's from another post pertaining to injuries
But i think some people fall into the “needs trap” and don’t visualize the situation deeper. We can address the D through FA too, and who’s to say about diamonds in the rough later on in the draft?!
With Spiller, at the very least, he’s not only a RB, but for the short term, a reliable third down back. A RB with good hands as a receiving threat. Also, he one of the better returners in the country, if i’m not mistaken. Hixon does have his issues, but is servicable, but Spiller would instantly upgrade that area too. A team can be getting a nice little package deal with Spiller!
Now with Best, i don’t know much about him except for his concussion, which i would see that as a red flag instantly, but not entirely a DQ.
Best and Spiller are very much similar.
Both are smallish backs, Spiller’s a bit taller. Both around 200 lbs.
But both are very good pass catchers. They both have elite speed. I don’t have much of a doubt that either would instantly be the fastest player on the Giants.
Spiller has DJAX type speed (maybe not as fast..but certainly close). Best isn’t as fast..but more like Marshall Faulk type fast (which was a good ceiling comparison of him…)
Now they both certainly aren’t tough guys…they aren’t AB as far as toughness is concerned.
But both are a whole lot like the Eagles RB’s in Westbrook or McCoy, tho their speed is a whole lot like Felix Jones on the Cowboys.
Both were the workhorse backs of their team too…but they wouldn’t have to carry the load.
I have no confidence at all that Andre Brown will be 100%. Danny Ware is gone.
A 3 headed monster of Jacobs, Bradshaw and Best/Spiller….be very nice.
Also..there’s no one on this board that can tell me that a pass catching RB is not a need. That’s the sort of weapon that the Giants have lacked since #21 left.
Spiller and Best are certainly pass catching threats (Best is an excellent pass-catcher).
I know the D needs help…but Jahvid Best..if his brain checks out…would be an excellent pick.
N8 !
They are 10th in the league in ToP
1 min and 10s on average less than the #1 team in ToP
That is not a problem. Our defense not being able to stop anybody, not being able to get a stop on 3rd down is a problem.
Besides, everybody knows that RB’s are as good as their oline and if we can fix our run blocking problems it wouldn’t matter whos behind the QB
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 4, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
You make
a very good point on the RB situation. IF a CLEARLY high talent running back was available, I wouldn’t think JR wrong for taking him.
The D needs a veteran precense
talent would be a need…but really, the only 3 players in this draft that would instantly help the Giants are Suh, Berry and Rolando McClain.
They’d have to trade up for any of them. McClain may fall to around their pick..to which I wouldn;t be against trading up to say…#12 to get him.
But trading up into the top 5 to get Berry or possibly Suh (or even Gerald McCoy….) would be stupid.
They have too many other needs..and need all their picks.
N8 !
It takes some time to devlop that
Syndy Rice cauught like 10 balls last year. Nicks will be that type of player he just needs to learn a bit.
What is embarassing is that...
…several teams with nothing left to play for stepped up and made big plays throughout December and did not quit on themselves, their coaches, and their organizations…I’m thinking Cleveland, Carolina, Buffalo, Atlanta, San Francisco, even the once 5-7 Texans got the job done…
The way our guys handled these last two weeks is absolutely pathetic. This evisceration should hurt their athletic pride far worse than last year’s home playoff loss to the Eagles. It’s a long 8 months until August…
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 4, 2010 10:27 AM EST reply actions
If you think about it
We had the exact opposity season as the teams you mentioned. We started out great and faded, they started poorly and got better.
by Late for Dinner on Jan 4, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
And one more thing
Why did it take a 44-0 lead in the 4th quarter of the last game of a season to get Ramses Barden his first catch of the season?
Beats me..
He did make a nice catch and then looked like a giant redwood tree falling across the first down marker..who the hell is going to push that monster back?..I think he is one of our bright spots for next season.
definitely...
I expect him to be right in the mix right away, just like Manningham was this year.
I remember saying “wow”…Manningham is pretty damn good.
I think we’ll say the same about Barden next year.
I think Travis Beckum is gonna play a big role too.
And while Steve Smith is my boy…maybe the emergence of Barden allows Eli to spread the ball more (tho I can’t complain at all with their spreading this year).
Smith had 106 catches….there’s no reason that 70-80 should be more like it, and those 25+ other balls go to others.
N8 !
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 4, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
Thank God it is OVER..is right on..
I agree with Ed in regards to trading down,,Usually you can get some really good sleepers..Plus I have always believed you take the best player on the board when your number comes up regardless…Hopefully there will some good defensive prospects there..
Chemistry
What happened for us a few years ago (SB run) was really beyond unusual. To play as many rookies AND have consistently good play from them is atypical at best. The glue that held a lot of those guys together was Strahan, and we just may need a free agent leader like him (I know, where the heck do we find that?!) to come in and spur on the defense. A new DC will probably help (depends on the choice), but it was glaringly obvious by the time we got to the Minnesota game that there just weren’t any player-leaders on the D.
The defense can be fixed, but we’re gonna have to acquire some of the new and let go of some of the old, and then we need a “binder”…
Injuries played such a major role in doing us in this time, too. Let’s hope we’ve gotten them all out of our system for next season. Crap I am tired of seeing such a long list.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
free agent leader?
typically leaders are the guys that have been on the team for a while, the guys that have grown up and matured and that is how you turn into a good leader.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 4, 2010 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, there are different types of leaders
Some players are natural born leaders, some are transitioned to be leaders and some are brought into a new team because they are leaders (Dawkins to Denver for example). As for the Giants lack of leaders, well, AP was an emotional leader. But was it because of Spags, or is he a natural leader? Either or, he still was a leader out there. So thats why i think that our next DC should have emotions and fire. Something to reflect back onto the players!
Though it probably is rare for rookies to take charge, it didn’t take Strahan or Ray Lewis long to grasp this role. We just need someone current to assume it!
I disagree. There are leaders all over the place who don't play for the teams they started with.
AP came from Washington, didn’t he?
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
Yahoo Sports! writes...
…in its “Yesterday’s Five Least Valuable Players” blog…
“Everyone, Every Position, New York Giants. Is an explanation required? They lost their last two games of the year by a combined 69 points. It’s been a prideless, gutless, embarrassing two-week display that ownership shouldn’t tolerate. That’s the task for the Giants this offseason: Find the guys who quit, and don’t let them ever wear a Giants uniform again.”
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 4, 2010 11:04 AM EST reply actions
I would expect that..and probably more of the same before it is all said and done..
They even let the Jets close out our stadium on a good note..Shameful
Abysmal...
…from top to bottom. From the owners on down, everyone needs to look in the mirror. I counldn’t even watch yesterdays game after wittnessing the complete joke that took place at the stadium the prior week. Anyone know the name of the new stadium? I heard some disturbing news. And wtf is that total eyesore next to the stadium?!!?! Ugh…
by Last year in Sec 127 on Jan 4, 2010 11:07 AM EST reply actions
Kudos, Wet Willies, Etc
Yes Eli has talent, can shine at times but can this guy ever hold the ball as he is going down? More effort to protect the ball. Can he take tap dancing lessons to learn to move his feet…and take a leadership course, grim looks do not lead. Bradshaw, A+ for effort but please protect the ball too. He is both exciting and scary when running. S. Smith was the most consistent guy, A+ no matter what. At least he is not a quitter. Finally got Ramses Barden on the field, what took so long? Yeah, keeping Sinorice Moss around was useful…not. Most OLmen need to try harder. Sheridan needs to go for lack of leadership but the entire D team should hang their heads, stop complaining and do some introspection. My 5 year old daughter can tackle better. They get paid millions, Sheridan is not an excuse to stand around, watch loose balls and waffle on runners. And why not use the young guys more in the last game on both O and D? Find out who has what. The veterans have no pride left, that is for sure, they deserve to be benched. And yes TC has to take some of the blame, he is the head coach, motivator and most of the team gave up weeks ago. Put him on probation. I am usually not rabid but the last few games actually made me sick, I even said a few bad words to the TV. You can always come up with a reason to quit but losers quit, winners finish, i.e. play their best to the end.
by UnknownJintsFan on Jan 4, 2010 11:51 AM EST reply actions
C'mon, unknown
After yesterday, and after the way the season has gone, you want to pick on Eli? Give me a break. He was, and is, the best player the Giants have.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 4, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
The best among detritus
Yes Eli is talented, certainly one of the best in the league. Still he worries me every time he gets hit. Now, he should be protected better yes. But his “even keel” is not beneficial on a team that needs a fire cracker inserted in a certain spot. And we’re comparing him to who? Not many heroes on this team, a real dearth of real men. I’m putting a helmet on my 5 year old daughter and seeing if she can be a free agent walk in. I’m not picking on him per se, more expressing some frustration for uneven performance. I would love see him lead to a great season in 2010 but the team needs him to step up more overtly.
by UnknownJintsFan on Jan 4, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Hey Unknown..I can understand frustration, but Eli??..Your kidding right?..
He threw for 4000 yards, on a bum foot..gets hit and pops back up..He’s done it with an untested receiving core..You must be kidding, and if you saw the look on his face yesterday it was obvious he could care less about what he accomplished..He was disgusted…and it is a sorry state of affairs when your Punter is trying to spur some energy into this group that made clowns out of themselves…Gime a break!..The punter?
Not to mention that
probably a big part of the SB push a few seasons ago had everything to do with Eli being even-keeled.
He could do better with ball protection in traffic.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
Chuckie
I am surprised Chuckie has not been getting any play in terms of this team.
Couple things about Gruden:
1) “Pounding the Rock” is his mantra. That fits the mold with Giants football.
2) He has that “Glamor” thing going, what better place to be a star than the big stage.
3) He’s a winner. He has a ring and has proven he can do it.
4) He stood up to Keyshawn and told him to take a hike when it was not the most popular thing, I give him credit for that. Thats the kind of thing we were looking for in Coughlin although during his tenure we ended up with Tiki, Shockey, Plax , Osi and a host of other malcontents yapping.
I am not a Cowher fan. I think he is vastly overrated and got lucky like Coughlin got lucky. But I would be interested in Chucky or John Fox. Ah, who am I kidding. The Mara’s love Coughlin because he goes to church or whatever… we are stuck, geuss its time to fire all the assistants again….
Re: Chuckie
He signed another contract with ESPN to do another year of Monday night Football, It looks like he is gonna sit out a couple of season before he jumps back into to it. I think that is why more teams are not looking at him.
by Late for Dinner on Jan 4, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Gruden's not a coordinator candidate.
He’s said it himself that he’d “love to coach a Manning for once in his career” LOL!.
..so once Coughlin is gone, either on his own terms or if he is let go…then Gruden will be a candidate.
Not sure what I think of him…cuz it was fairly obvious that his Tampa team, for real, QUIT on him in 2008…the Bucs were in perfect position make the playoffs and they lost their last 4 games to get knocked out. I hold a grudge against Gruden cuz this basically let the Eagles in the playoffs….
But really..that’s one year, he’d probably be good choice for HC
N8 !
The way he was gushing over Manning back on MNF
he’d absolutely fit in
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
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