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New York Giants position breakdowns: Special teams

What to make of the New York Giants special teams? That is our task in our final position-by-position breakdown.

If you watched all 16 Giants games in 2009 you know there was a special teams breakdown in one area or another nearly every week. Missed extra points and short field goals, poor kickoffs at times, inconsistent punt and kickoff coverage, bad punting, non-existent kickoff returns. You name it, at one time or another we saw heavy doses of all of that in 2009.

Question is, who is at fault? And what should the Giants do about it? I am on record as stating that special teams coach Tom Quinn needs to be replaced. I will stand by that. The guy has been special teams coach for three seasons, and for three seasons the Giants special teams play has been an issue.

This is what I wrote about Quinn a couple of weeks ago.

Using its unique +/- grading system, PFF puts the Giants special teams at -13.7 for the season. Let's compare that to the teams that qualified for the playoffs.

New York Jets (+32.8), Cincinnati Bengals (-0.4), Baltimore Ravens (+20.2), New England Patriots (+12.5), Arizona Cardinals (+21.5), Green Bay Packers (-1.0), Dallas Cowboys (+22.5), Philadelphia Eagles (+24.3).

It is plain to see from those numbers how critical special teams are to making the playoffs. Only the Bengals and Packers are average to below average on special teams.

Go back even further. Even in the Super Bowl year of 2007, Quinn's first as coordinator, the Giants were -10.2 on special teams. Last season they were -9.3, with only outstanding work by Feagles saving them from being even worse.

Please, don't try to tell me poor special teams play is an indication of a dearth of talent. It can be, sure, but not with this team. The Giants won the 2007 Super Bowl, were 11-1 at one point in 2008 and were thought to have championship level talent entering 2009. They have had plenty of talent to get the job done.

How much more evidence is needed to realize that Quinn simply is not up to this job?

That said, we still need to look at the key special teams performers individually and see how they measure up.

Star-divide

Jeff Feagles: Feagles hit more poor punts in 2009 than I can ever recall seeing from the 22-year veteran -- a guy some consider worthy of Hall of Fame consideration. It was easy to watch him and think he was done, that it was time for the Giants to find a new kicker with a bigger leg.

Well, not so fast. In many respects the numbers for the 43-year-old Feagles were almost identical to what they have been the past several seasons.

  • He averaged 40.5 yards per kick, right about where he has been thru seven Giants seasons and just a yard below his career mark.
  • He landed 23 kicks inside the 20 and four inside the 10, identical to 2008.
  • He forced 14 fair catches, one more than in 2008.

The bad news is that Feagles booted 17 punts out of bounds -- many of those woefully short ones. His net punting average was just 36.0 yards per punt, third-worst in the league and four yards worse than in 2008. His Pro Football Focus rating went from a +10.7 in 2008 to a -3.6 in 2009. That, again, was third-worst in the league.

Question is, has Feagles lost it or did Quinn over-coach Feagles, messing with his head and mechanics to the point where Feagles lost effectiveness? In talking with people close to the Giants, you hear the latter opinion voiced frequently.

I would like to see Feagles return a whole lot more than I would like to see Quinn still in charge of special teams. I could understand if the Giants bring in competition for him. In fact, since he will be 44 next season, I could understand letting him go. I still believe, though, that left alone to do what he has obviously known how to be dofor a long time -- kick directionally as well as any kicker ever has -- Feagles can still be a weapon.

Lawrence Tynes: Many of the same questions relating to Quinn that I asked about Feagles also apply to Tynes. I know many of you love to hate this guy, but if you have been watching the late-season and playoff games it has to make you realize the Giants could do worse. Could they do better? Yes. But, they could also do a lot worse.

Tynes missed two kicks between 20-29 yards in 2009 -- the only kicker in the league to do that. He also missed two from 30-39, and only kickers missed more than that. But, he did make 5-of-6 from outside 40 and finished with an 84.4% success rate on field goals, 13th in the league among kickers who participated in all 16 games. So, he was league average.

His kickoffs were not great, of course. PFF graded him -7.0 on kickoffs, with only two kickers faring worse.I still think, though, his kickoffs are acceptable. It's not his fault the Giants can't make a tackle, or that Quinn keeps asking him to hit those stupid-looking 'pooch' kicks that automatically give the return team the ball at the 40-yard line.

The kicker's primary job, though, is to make field goals. Despite his misses I fervently believe that in this capacity Tynes is just fine, provided Quinn quits screwing around with his mechanics and lets him do what he has always known how to do. Tynes, obviously, does not fear the big moment and that is a quality that cannot be under-estimated in a kicker.

It appears that Tynes will have competition for the job next summer from recently-signed youngster Sam Swank, and that can only be a good thing. If he gets beaten out for the job my guess is no one will shed a tear, and I trust that if they replace Tynes the Giants will do so with the belief they have found someone better.

As the saying goes, however, be careful what you wish for.

Zak DeOssie: As a long-snapper DeOssie is just fine. He has handled the punt-snapping duties for three seasons now, and stepped into the field goal and extra-point snapping duties this season when Jay Alford was injured. There is no reason for DeOssie not to continue in both of those capacities for years to come. The problem with DeOssie is the Giants used a fourth-round pick on him in 2007, and you don't use a fourth-round pick on a guy you expect to be a career long-snapper. It appears, though, that DeOssie will never be a regular part of the linebacking group. So, really it is tough to say the Giants are getting what they hoped for in DeOssie.

Domenik Hixon: It is my belief that Hixon is a quality return man. In 2009, he averaged 14.2 yards per punt return with one touchdown. Among players who returned at least 10 punts, only the electric DeSean Jackson was better (15.3 yards per return, two TDs). Hixon averaged just a pedestrian 22.3 yards returning kickoffs. I think, though, that was a function of having no place to run rather than an inability to be an explosive returner. When the returner is getting swarmed at the 20-yard line, it is not his fault.

Keep: Feagles

Let 'em compete: Tynes, Swank

Draft/Free Agency Priority (1 being the highest, 5 the lowest): 5. The Giants have too many other holes to be drafting kickers. Or guys who are solely return specialists.

(E-mail Ed at bigblueview@gmail.com)

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Comments

Display:

field position

this is a KEY component of a successful team. makes the D much better, makes the O more efficient.
GMen need a BIG leg punting. gotta bring in someone who can boom. we need either distance or hang time. (not to mention people who can make a damn tackle)
Tynes is ok. if there is someone who can beat him out, great. if not, its ok.

by NYer in a strange land on Jan 26, 2010 7:20 AM EST reply actions  

tynes can't kickoff and is mediocre at FGs

you are right to mention field position, but then how are tynes’s kickoffs acceptable? when teams always start at the 30 instead of the 20, that makes a big difference.

giants D was 14th in yards allowed but 30th in points given up—part of that was red zone woes but a huge part was also great starting field position for opponents.

i don’t see how special teams gets a 5 here. how hard is it to find kickers and punters in the draft or FA? it has to be easier than other positions.

by Connelly on Jan 26, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Tynes

I’d love to see this average kicker get replaced. I dream of having strong confidence in a FG kicker. Not to mention: Not only is he inconsistent from easy range, there is no way this guy is kicking a 50+ yarder, and sometimes you just need to be able to do that.

You play to win the game!

by Simms-McConkey on Jan 26, 2010 7:37 AM EST reply actions  

Tynes

I maintain that Quinn is a big part of any problems Tynes has. You can’t keep messing with a guys mechanics and expect him to strike the ball consistently.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 26, 2010 7:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree about Quinn and I am very surprised to see him still here..

But like I’ve assumed during the search for a DC..It is just a matter of time before Fewell completes and delivers his assessment and recommendations..So we’ll be waving bye-bye to a few more coaches prior to mini-camp firing up.

by Bobbiblue on Jan 26, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Ed, I seldom disagree with you but....

I think you are greatly underestimating the value of a long high kickoff. With our opponents often starting on the 35 or 40 yard line they are able to open up their offense and even if we do stop them an average punt pins us back inside our ten yard line and make it difficult for us to break out.

I actually think he is an ok field goal kicker but “c’mon man” this is the NFL…..how can you not at least reach the goal line with some decent height on at least half your kickoffs?

Maybe Quinn is messing with Tynes technique because it stinks (at least on kickoffs).

by giant fan since 57 on Jan 26, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Goal line

I don’t think most kickers reach the goal line half the time. Tynes kickoffs are not great, I have admitted that. But, what is more important? The field goals or 5 yards of field position? I wish you could have both, but you can’t always get that.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 26, 2010 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey Ed..your being a bit kind here to Tynes..

His kick-offs are giving up alot more than 5 yards of field position..more like 20-25..But again everything is relative..Give the ball to an opposing team at the 30-40 yardline and not stopping them either leads to points for them or us kicking a punt from way back deep, eventually it leads to getting scored against, hence giving up points.This Tynes has a strong leg, you can see it on his field goal attempts..there is something wrong with his low-liner kick-offs that only reach the 10-15 yardline…He can blast the ball into the netting from 50 yards out but can’t kick a ball off a tee into the end-zone..Now he either has a problem with his mechanics or somebody is (Quinn) helping him screw up his mechanics.

by Bobbiblue on Jan 26, 2010 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Its not Tynes only

that has a strong leg for FG’s but terrible kickoff length.

I’ve seen other kickers who are that same way as well.

But yes, Tynes’ kickoffs are incredibly bad – probably bottom 5 in the league, maybe Quinn had something to do with it but I’ve seen plenty of times when Tynes tried to kick it deep and the other team got the ball at their own 10. Some of that has to be from his leg just not being strong enough

by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 26, 2010 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

The stats tell the story....

The top four teams all had an average of over 30% touchbacks on their kickoffs. The Giants were 28th in the league with only 7% and I bet those were with strong tailwinds. I can’t believe that we can tolerate that kind of performance and call ourselves an elite team.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/kickoff-touchback-pct

by giant fan since 57 on Jan 27, 2010 4:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. All Hail Sam Swank!

If I have to watch Tynes kick one more line-drive kickoff to the 10 yard line I’m going to pull my hair out. The Giants coverage team is terrible, but Tynes doesn’t do them any favors with his horrible kickoffs.

I say the Giants should let Swank compete for Feagles job as well, as he was a punter at Wake Forest too.

by ggggmen08 on Jan 26, 2010 9:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I think they need to bring in competition for Feagles.

Entirely too many drives stalled in the Giants own zone (**lack of running game…) and forced Feags to punt from there, where his lack of leg strength was exposed.

Glad they got someone to compete with Tynes…hopefully he beats him out and has a stronger leg.

..and why does Tom Quinn still have a job?

You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there

by FreeBradshaw on Jan 26, 2010 7:38 AM EST reply actions  

Quinn

His not being fired is the biggest thing I do not understand about the Giants off-season yet. If they were going to release the guy they would have done it by now. And I just don’t get why he appears to be staying.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 26, 2010 7:42 AM EST up reply actions  

My biggest problem with Feagles....

Is that there is no potential for a 55 yard punt to completely change field position. The best you can hope for is a 41 yarder that goes out of bounds. But even that is a crapshoot at this point. Therefore, if the Giants are backed up in their own territory, the opposition is almost assured good field position against the Giants.

The Colts kicker boomed a couple over 50 yards on Sunday that helped change the field position. I would love to have a punter like that.

by ggggmen08 on Jan 26, 2010 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

A younger punter with a bigger leg would be nice

maybe Feags can teach the young guy how to pin teams inside the 20?

by brisulph on Jan 26, 2010 8:21 AM EST reply actions  

2 different things

Does anyone remember Rodney Williams? I think that was his name. The guy could kick the ball 70 yards, but sometimes he would only kick it 15. The loooooong kick is nice once in a while, but I will take the consistency, along with good placement of the ball. I’d like to see Feagles given the opportunity to prove he can still do it.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 26, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, Rodney was a big boomer, but very inconsistent, hence awful..I'd take Feagles over

Him anyday..just need to make sure Feagles is in the position to use his skill..He cannot if your giving up field position on kick-offs, that results in him having to kick 40 yarders from his own endzone, 10, or 20 yardline…Rodney punted like I Golf..never knew where the hell it was going…It could go 250-300 yards down the fairway, it could go the same distance into the woods, or barely reach the ladies tees.

by Bobbiblue on Jan 26, 2010 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Feagles has had many many more great kicks than bad ones.

I think his average is hurt by the fact that he sometimes pins the enemy inside their ten yard line with a thirty yard punt. Actually I do seem to remember some surprisingly long punts from his the last year or so. He is still a keeper as far as I’m concerned.

by giant fan since 57 on Jan 27, 2010 4:47 AM EST up reply actions  

No putting words in my mouth Ed

I never said I wanted an inconsistent boomer for a punter… just someone with some strength in the leg so that the defense is not facing a running downhill opponent (so to speak) due to field position.

by brisulph on Jan 27, 2010 7:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Feagles WAS inconsistent this year

Yeah, nobody wants an inconsistent kicker. But that’s exactly what Feagles was this past year. Way too many that were short and off the side of his foot. I’d rather have a consistent kicker that can boom the ball. Other teams have those punters, so why shouldn’t the Giants strive to get better in this area? Field position is HUGE in football.

by ggggmen08 on Jan 27, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes he did miss a few corner kicks.

But don’t forget that one of the reasons other teams don’t try for the corner like we do is that Feagles is way better at it than anyone else. Most teams won’t even try for fear of a ten yard punt. Give Jeff his due….he may have stumbled a bit last year but he is probably the best angle kicker the league has ever seen and even at at his age I still have faith in his abilities.

Remember, sometimes those booming kicks are followed by long returns.

by giant fan since 57 on Jan 27, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

(See 2nd Dallas Game)

Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.

When there's a WILL there's a WAY

by Willgfass on Jan 27, 2010 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

If we can bring in a punter that also does kickoffs that would be great

Tynes is pretty decent on field goals…. but his kickoffs have been incredibly bad – only remember him kicking it out the back of the endzone once and that was in denver….. other than that KR’s catch the ball from him at around the 5-15 range which is awful

by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 26, 2010 8:26 AM EST reply actions  

colts have that

and their guy is awesome at both

by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jan 26, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Feagles

I’m honestly surprised—in a good way—to see you suggest we keep Feagles. It seemed like it was going to become the common theme amongst the Giants fanbase to say “Well Mr. Feagles, you’ve been great for all these years, but please retire…”

I’m against this. I believe Feagles is still a great punter, but that his coaches are telling him the wrong things. Wasn’t it revealed a while back that someone in the coaching staff was telling Feagles to punt out of bounds to avoid giving the kick returner a chance on the ball? If so, I find it hard to believe our Special Teams are that frowned upon. This is just one of those things I don’t pay attention to. How good are guys like C.C. Brown, Barden, Kehl, Beckum, etc. on Special Teams? I don’t recall us ever having a touchdown scored against us, so we weren’t too terrible. I find it hard to believe that the best directional punter in the game would play so lousy unless something else was causing him to kick balls out of bounds at the 43.

by RolloT on Jan 26, 2010 8:28 AM EST reply actions  

I think the idea was

When teams had the opportunity for returns, our coverage teams gave up big chunks of yardage, though they didn’t give up TD’s, it’s the field position that hurt us alot. I do remember quite a few punts going out of bounds around mid-field, which by itself isn’t good. Given his leg strength, they should’ve just let him boom it, it’s not like he would’ve out-kicked the coverage, but preferrably led to a FC deeper in their territory!

by Hootman on Jan 26, 2010 9:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Might sound crazy...

but if Feagles doesn’t make the team or decides to retire, why not try to bring him in as an assistant special teams coach? The guy is older than a lot of head coaches out there and knows his stuff.

by CCE718 on Jan 26, 2010 8:37 AM EST reply actions  

Feagles

I think Free makes a good point – part of the problem with Feagles is that the Giants had a lot more drives that stalled on the bad side of the 30 yard line than last year, so his lack of a strong leg became more of a liability. When Feagles is punting from the Giants 40 yard line and up, he’s fantastic, but when he’s farther than that, he’s not going to be too effective.

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Jan 26, 2010 9:14 AM EST reply actions  

Yes that was a reasonable point concerning stalled drives and Feagles being forced

To kick from the area of the field that makes his skill a liability, but I would hope the Giants don’t have as many this year or we’re screwed…and Tynes just can’t reach the end-zone enough on kick-offs..either he can’t or again maybe he being told not to. Again maybe Quinn’s fault..but I’ll take a touchback everytime..and when they decide to take it out of the end-zone, that’s when your turnover or pinback potential rises..kicking a ball with no hang-time to a guy at the 10-15 yardline is a recipe for disaster.

by Bobbiblue on Jan 26, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Amen Bob

Kick it through the end zone every time… we had a punter some years back maybe named Rodney something? He could kick it 70 yards but was badly inconsistent we should been paying that guy $50,000 a year to just keep training…

You play to win the game!

by Simms-McConkey on Jan 26, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Tynes

This guy does drive me crazy, I actually liked Carney better although I would like both, one for under 40 yrds and one for over 40 yrds, but 2 kickers does not make sense when you need roster space for guys like Sinorice Moss.
Watching the Playoffs I realized (again) that kickers drive you crazy its their job

Feely was exactly the same guy he was in the playoffs against Seattle
Kaeding went from hero to zero in 60 minutes
Suisham was well…. Suisham
Hartley reminded me of Tynes 2.0

So I guess it could be worse

You can see a lot just by observing-Yogi Berra

by greg a on Jan 26, 2010 9:27 AM EST reply actions  

Why all the hubbub about kickers?

When it seemed pretty obvious that we needed a new punter more. Its time to find a guy that can boom some, with all the punts out of bounds, he leaves one in for Jackson to take back in a critical game vs Eagles.

Sorry, I like Jazzy Jeff, but its time to move on, to a younger stronger leg.

by giantblue63 on Jan 26, 2010 9:33 AM EST reply actions  

Nick Folk

Why don’t the Giants give Nick Folk a shot? He was an All-Pro kicker as a rookie just two years ago. He had hip surgery in the off-season and had a bad season.. Now that he’s had a full year under his belt post-surgery, next season could be a return to form for him.

by GhostDini on Jan 26, 2010 9:52 AM EST reply actions  

+1

anyone know how his kickoffs are?

by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jan 26, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

They did cut him for a reason...

and the fact that they cut him for Shaun Suisham?

I’d rather have Tynes.

You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there

by FreeBradshaw on Jan 26, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Let My Feagles Go

I love Feagles, but CJ hit it right on the head. The guy is amazing kicking from the 40 or closer, terrible from farther back. At this point he is just too much of a specialist. Tynes is one annoying s.o.b., but there are no candidates out there that are obviously better. Bring in some competition and let’s see what happens…

by Aceholioo on Jan 26, 2010 9:55 AM EST reply actions  

Having 2 long snappers

is good – a team lost a game a year or so ago when their only longsnapper got hurt. So having Zak and Alford is a good thing. But it would be nice if Zak could actually play a bit.

Hixon is solid and good WR depth.

Kickers? Let em all compete in camp.

Priority is low.

by MSP Giant on Jan 26, 2010 10:02 AM EST reply actions  

Wasn't that

the great game from 2008 where we beat the Steelers? I think remember their snapper zipping one over the punter’s head for a safety to tie it up at 14.

by SonictheHedgecock on Jan 26, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I believe DPOY

James Harrison was their backup LS, and sailed it way over the head of a punter who was already injured.

Roethlisberger was awful that game

Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.

When there's a WILL there's a WAY

by Willgfass on Jan 26, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Rich Eisen said Feagles punts the way Coughlin asks him to punt

According to him, Feagles could kick it farther but Coughlin doesn’t want booming kicks. He believes in keeping it out of the hands of a dangerous returner. Of course, Feagles’ season was poor even for him. However, the basic premise is that he’s following orders. I feel that these directional kicks are great for inside the 20-yard line but I’d rather have a punter with a big leg who gets touchbacks than a kicker with no leg who gives up great field position. I want a big punter.

We need a replacement at kicker too. When you have a bad defense, a kicker with a weak leg is especially bad. Offenses were starting in great field position against a defense that was already suspect. Every team had a short field. Then you add the fact that the Giants special teams did not cover well and you had a recipe for disaster.

by GhostDini on Jan 26, 2010 10:03 AM EST reply actions  

20010 compared to 2009 Position Draft/Free Agency Priority

JMO for 2009

2010vs2009

WR- 5vs1
TE- 4-5vs4-5
OL- 3vs5
RB- 3vs5
FB- 5vs5
QB- 5vs5
DT- 1vs2-3
DE- 3-4vs5
MLB-1vs3
CB- 3vs5
S- 1vs4
ST- 5vs5

WOW, thats an overall difference of 10 points….
Guys and Girls, sorry to say there’s is a sh!@#$ load of work to be done here. JR has got his hands FULL.
Wish we could do the coaching staff next in the same format, just the high impact coaching positions, would be interesting to compare those as well?

by NYCGMEN on Jan 26, 2010 10:08 AM EST reply actions  

sorry NYC

didn’t see this until after I had posted my request for a similar breakdown for coaches below. I agree. Would like to see what Ed and the BBV community have to say about the various coaches. I guess we could leave BS out of it, but things have gone quite on the KG front recently as the D has taken more of the heat. Does this mean that we are happy with Gilbride for 2010, despite him having apparently no clue how to get the best out of Boss or the RBs? I would also like someone more knowledgeable than me to comment on the specialist position coaches, especially Linebackers and Secondary.

He was like a god walking amongst mere mortals. He had a voice that could make a wolverine purr and suits so fine they made Sinatra look like a hobo.

by Johannus on Jan 26, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sick of

Tynes kicking it to the 10 or 15 yd line every time and the other team having good field position. If he were reliable for FG’s at least it would be a different story. I long for the days of Brad Daluiso, at least for kickoffs.

I like Feagles but I would not be opposed to bringing in someone with a stronger leg.

I agree with Ed, Quinn should be fired. And even though we have a ST’s need we have to many other holes to fill to waste picks on kickers or returners.

by Giants56 on Jan 26, 2010 11:00 AM EST reply actions  

Swank...

…is just not a good name for a kicker. Freakin’ kickers. Hope our scouts have the fire burning!

by Last year in Sec 127 on Jan 26, 2010 12:14 PM EST reply actions  

Speaking of freakin' kickers...

…if you’re the Saints, how nervous are you that that weird kid they have will have to make a big kick in the Super Bowl? I swear, you can just about see a blinking neon sign over his head that says “Flake.”

I left my swagger in my other pants.

by HughG16 on Jan 26, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL..in other words..he is in over his head?

Peyton is going to tear them apart..I’d love to see the Saints win one finally, but their fans irritate the hell out of me..They should be out piling up sandbags on the levees or taking Banjo lessons in hopes of starring in Deliverence II the sequel..

by Bobbiblue on Jan 26, 2010 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

The only problem with our kickers

is Tynes’ weak kick offs. Who ever’s fault that is, that needs to be fixed.

Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.

When there's a WILL there's a WAY

by Willgfass on Jan 26, 2010 1:26 PM EST reply actions  

Feagles ain't our problem.

And I’d love to get rid of Tynes. I hope JR’s on that muh-fuh. But more interestingly, are we getting McCluster or Brandon James to return kicks?

I left my swagger in my other pants.

by HughG16 on Jan 26, 2010 2:01 PM EST reply actions  

Off Topic post

Hey Ed, I’m not in a position to do this because I don’t have the familiarity with the staff, but are you going to finish this series on Position Breakdowns with one on Coaches or do you think it has all be said?

He was like a god walking amongst mere mortals. He had a voice that could make a wolverine purr and suits so fine they made Sinatra look like a hobo.

by Johannus on Jan 26, 2010 2:56 PM EST reply actions  

Coaches

I don’t think I’m going to touch that. I’m not close enough to judge the position coaches. And we have pretty much drawn all the battle lines on Gilbride. It’s sort of like Rush Limbaugh vs. Liberal Democrats. Nobody is changing their minds, so it’s pretty pointless to fight about it.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 26, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough

I just wondered if it may be a way to get into the issue (again) of whether the problems this year have been caused by poor execution on the part of good players (or average players), or poor preparation and play calling by the coaching staff. You certainly seem to think that the latter is true with Quinn and the Special Team. There was certainly a problem with Sheridan. Gilbride took flack in mid-season once the 5-0 honeymoon was over. I think you have to question TC as he appointed the coaching staff. The point is, it may not matter how well the Giants trade and draft if there is not the right environment for players to play and develop. If the ‘07 win was really down to Spags’ schemes, enthusiasm, and ability to get on with the players then the Giants will need to ensure that someone on the staff can step up … senior players, coaching staff, whoever. Is Fewell that man?

They've done studies you know, 60% of the time, it works everytime.

by Johannus on Jan 26, 2010 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Well Johannus..you raise some very good point here..

This game is alot more complicated than it looks…Alot of us are a bit surprised that more coaches have not been replaced, so the next few weeks will be interesting..Gilbride for the most part was putting plans together that posted points on the board, and believe me I’m not a huge fan of his..but the guy produced opportunities to win. Sheridan was way over his head..I think.

by Bobbiblue on Jan 26, 2010 9:54 PM EST reply actions  

Have to disagree on Feagles

has lost it all. last in net and he is not going to get longer with age. Time to get a big foot in here. Maybe spend a late round pick on a college boomer. This was like an oldtimers show last season. He was a big reason for poor field position.

by lueeluee on Jan 28, 2010 7:52 AM EST reply actions  

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