New York Giants position breakdowns: Outside linebacker
Outside linebacker is next up in our series of New York Giants position-by-position breakdowns. This is another position where improvement is necessary for the Giants to play better defense in 2010.
The question is, do the Giants already have the players they need to facilitate that improvement? Or, is this another of the multitude of defensive positions Jerry Reese needs to find a way to upgrade?
Let's look at the players individually and find out.
Danny Clark: A 10-year veteran, Clark presents a real conundrum in trying to figure out what to do about the Giants outside linebackers going forward.
- He is a journeyman, and your head tells you that at this point in his career Clark should not be a starting linebacker in the NFL.
- Your eyes tell you Clark is abominable in pass coverage, and the stats prove that your eyes don't lie. In 2009quarterbacks had a 127.5 rating throwing at Clark, according to Pro Football Focus. Only two linebackers in the NFL who played at least 25% of their team's snaps were worse in coverage. In 2008, quarterbacks had a 115.2 rating throwing at Clark, making him seventh-worst in the league.
- Watch a Giants game and he is just about the only linebacker who ever makes a play in the backfield. Not that he makes them often, but name another linebacker who is ever in the backfield. Didn't think you could.
- The run stats don't lie, either. As bad as he is against the pass, in 2009 Pro Football Focus rated Clark +7.6 against the run. Well, that's nice but you say you don't care? Well, consider that is the same score posted by NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year Brian Cushing. That is 9th in the league overall for 4-3 outside linebackers against the run. A misprint, or an anomoly, you say? In 2008 Clark was +10.5 against the run, sixth in the league among 4-3 outside linebackers.
- Overall in 2009 PFF rated Clark at +7.4, again 9th among 4-3 outside linebackers. In 2008? Try +7.9, good for 11th in the league.
Michael Boley: Boley's first season as a Giant after being signed from Atlanta as a free agent was a mixed bag. There was some good play, but also some bad play. There was a one-game suspension. There were injuries that caused him to miss all of training camp, four regular-season games and likely affected his play much of the season.
I don't think we have seen the best of Boley yet. At least, I hope we haven't. The guy is more athletic than any outside linebacker the Giants have had in quite a while, and I really want to see what he can do with the benefit of a full, healthy training camp.
In 2007 Boley was clearly one of the best 4-3 outside linebackers in football and appeared headed for stardom with the Falcons. He racked up 125 tackles and three sacks that season. Want a better way to measure how impressive he was in '07? Pro Football Focus ranked him as the best 4-3 outside linebacker in football with a +25.2 score. Seattle's Leroy Hill was second. His grade? A +10.7. so, Boley was nearly 15 points better than any outside linebacker in the league that season.
In 2008 Boley fell out of favor -- and out of the Atlanta starting lineup -- leading to his signing a lucrative free-agent deal with the Giants. In 2009, Boley did not come close to flashing his 2007 form.
He did make 103 tackles in 11 games, but PFF rated him as a less-than-stellar -9.3 for the season. Look further, and it was run defense that was the biggest issue, as Boley was -6.8 in that category.
Think about that a second. Boley, at 223 pounds, did not hold up well against the run. He also spent most of his time with Osi Umenyiora, whose pitiful run defense has been well-documented, lined up right in front of him. Anyone else see a huge problem here?
I do think, though, that Boley is a pretty good player. Maybe not 'best 4-3 outside linebacker in the league' good, but a quality player who can be part of the solution for the Giants troubled defense.
I just hope we see him fully healthy in 2010.
Clint Sintim: Ah, what to make of Sintim? In training camp, we thought he would at least become a pass-rushing force off the edge. Then he got hurt and missed a bunch of time. Then he admitted that he really had no clue where to line up or what to do as a 4-3 outside linebacker. Then, before you know it, the 2009 second-round pick's season was pretty much of a washout. Sintim had just 26 tackles and one sack in very limited duty.
Sintim may yet be a very good NFL player. I sure hope so, because he could be a difference-maker in the front seven. He has lots of raw strength and athleticism. Question is, though, why did the Giants draft him in the first place? The larger question is why do the Giants continue to draft players like him -- 'tweeners who really don't have a true place in their defense.
Mathias Kiwanuka comes to mind. Bryan Kehl, who was a 3-4 college linebacker now trying to fit into a 4-3 defense is another.
Now there is Sintim. He was a 3-4 outside linebacker at Virginia, and before the 2009 NFL Draft the consensus was he would fit best in the NFL on a 3-4 team. So, what did the Giants do? They snatched him up, of course.
So, what is Sintim? I'll be darned if I know. Is he fast enough to play pass coverage as a 4-3 outside linebacker? He might be, but right now he doesn't know how? Is he a defensive end? He can rush the passer from that spot, but at 256 pounds he can't hold up against the run. Besides, if he is an end doesn't that just make him a Kiwanuka clone? And it seems the Giants don't really know what to do with Kiwi, either. So, what good is that? Could Sintim be a middle linebacker? He has the size and strength, but if he can't figure out how to play outside does anyone really think he can learn to play -- and lead -- a defense in the middle?
Bryan Kehl: I like Kehl, but he is another example of why the Giants have struggled so much over the past decade to draft and develop play-making linebackers. Kehl was a 3-4 outside linebacker at BYU, and the Giants have tried to use his athleticism to turn him into a 4-3 weak-side linebacker. Unfortunately, he does not seem to have the aggressiveness or the true feel for the position. When it comes to linebackers, why do the Giants keep doing things like this? If you are going to run an aggressive 4-3 scheme then draft linebackers who have played that scheme collegiately and proven they can do it at a high level. Don't draft guys whose skills you 'think' will translate. Given a full-time chance, Kehl might be adequate. In other words, he might be Danny Clark. I doubt he is going to get that opportunity, though. He seems destined to be a special teams player and a backup with the Giants.
Gerris Wilkinson: I'm tired of watching this guy take up roster space and do nothing to earn it. He MIGHT have talent, but he can never stay healthy long enough to show it. Time for the Giants to cut ties with Wilkinson and give someone else a chance.
Conclusion: In the end, my guess is the Giants let Clark go and give Sintim a full shot at the strong-side linebacker slot. That is probably the right move, because Sintim has to play for the Giants to find out what they have. A have a suggestion for Jerry Reese, though. Please, please, Jerry if you draft any outside linebackers or bring in any as free agents make sure they are guys who have experience doing the kinds of things defensive coordinator Perry Fewell will be asking of them. No more square pegs in round holes. Please!
Keep: Boley, Sintim, Kehl
Dump: Clark, Wilkinson
Draft/Free Agency Priority (1 being the highest, 5 the lowest): 3-4
- Wide receiver
- Tight end
- Offensive line
- Running back
- Fullback
- Quarterback
- Defensive tackle
- Defensive end
- Middle linebacker
(E-mail Ed at bigblueview@gmail.com)
0 recs |
102 comments
|
Comments
Real nice post, Ed
why oh why did you just post those Clark stats?! auughhh…and I wanted so much to not like the guy :-)… I always thought he was in the backfield, b/c the rest of our LBs sucked and he just got lucky he ended up in the backfield b/c the offense basically didn’t think they would need to block him! I know I know that’s mean… but now you got me thinking of Clark… with that being said, though, I agree with everything you mentioned. I had the OLB group on a 5 draft priority assuming FUEL’s D scheme will somehow help the group, but now I think you are right – it’s prob closer to 3-4 draft/fa priority
Clark we can def. let go (I guess, with those run stopping #s getting me all hot and bothered!)…but I think that in doing so will only force Sintim to take that role, but we def. need some competition for him at the SAM.
Opus smart , lascivio magis , intereo gauisus...
Clark
the thing with him is, he makes the plays in the run game that he’s supposed to make but he’s not an impact player. He can’t cover and pick a pass off, he can’t blitz well and pressure and he’s not all over the field like an Armstead was. I actually think he’d be fine if our MLB or SLB were impact guys but since were mediorce across the board it makes Clark seem like another below average LB.
I really believe years of ingnoring and missmanaging this position has led this team to the situation we are in now. A team devoid of any talent at the LB position just a bunch of out of place players, aging veterns, busts, and profesional specail teamers.
maybe it was the LB Coach?
It gets late real early out here....
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 22, 2010 7:40 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
but I think you meant if our MIKE and WIL were impact guys…Clark is the SAM, altho like you mentioned…just a decent one if the other 2 were impact great players…
miss those Armstead days! feels like ages ago…
Opus smart , lascivio magis , intereo gauisus...
Clark
Generally, I agree. The grades tell you he makes more impact plays vs. the run than we think. But, I believe Sintim can do that given the job full-time. So, I think the Giants have to give him the opportunity and see what he does with it.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 22, 2010 8:43 AM EST up reply actions
Very good analysis of what we've got Ed ...
On Clark, I’m going to believe my “lyin’ eyes” and say he’s not a guy you want starting at LB, but if we can keep him cheap as a back up, fine.
Good point on Boley, that the “Osi turnstile” in front of him might have something to do with his poor run defense grade. Hopefully that’s one LB position we can count on in 2010.
On Kehl, I really think in camp they told some players to pick a fight with him just to see if they can get a spark of aggressiveness out of him. I don’t know why we would keep him at this point. Wilkinson should be gone.
Sintim’s the real puzzler. What we’ve seen so far looks more like Osi and Kiwi than a LB. But you hit the nail on the head in that Fewell has to figure out what we are on D, and then we can see what the best role is for Sintim and some other guys, and draft accordingly. I’d love to think we can have a hybrid D, that doesn’t just a standard 4-3 look, and that gets some rotation of fresh legs on all of our “tweeners”, but that may be too complex to pull off, especially in Fewell’s first year.
I knew Sintim was a bit out of place when drafted
but I just figured, well he’s got first round talent and can rush the QB so why not take him and devlop him. I was unaware that Kehl was another “out of position guy”. It seems like with LB the Giants draft guys based on potential rather than if they can make an imediate impact. It almost seems like they’re uncomfrotable with the position like they don’t know what they should be looking for or something. Let’s hope that changes with Fewell.
Sintim
I think that’s what the Giants saw, too. An impact defensive player with first-round talent who was still there halfway thru Round 2. If he can learn the position, he could be a monster at strong-side linebacker. But, he is still a huge question mark right now.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 22, 2010 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
Part of Fewell's
rep is his ability to teach. I look for a lot of improvement in the younger players for just that reason.
I had no idea Kehl was a 3-4 LB...
FIRE REESE!!!!
That has to play a part in it…but also, I’d think injuries do too. Gerris Wilkinson’s always been hurt. Sintim was a bunch last year. Kehl, Goff….all these guys injured so they don’t see the field.
That’s probably what hurts someone like Sintim and Kehl more, coming over from the 3-4 in college and not playing and getting a feel for the 4-3.
Definitely need to get talent here…at least for competition.
It gets late real early out here....
If you ask me anything I don't know, I'm not gonna answer.
It gets late real early out here....
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 22, 2010 8:07 AM EST up reply actions
WHAT?
what do you mean Fire Reese when he is one of the best and drafting talent.
???????????????
Free is kidding
He always wants to fire everybody when he gets defensive. Girardi. Reese. The Pope. Donald Trump. Anybody who comes to mind. It’s Free’s schtick.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 22, 2010 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
I'm shocked, shocked FB
that you, of all people, were unaware of Kehl’s college background as a 3-4 player. My own ignorance in that regard was no more than to be expected.
you know...
“I didn’t really say everything I just said”.
You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there- Yogi
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 22, 2010 8:52 AM EST up reply actions
I do that a lot.
Combined with not remembering what I remember makes life difficult.
Please! It's not like these college kids
are imprinted into the 4-3….if they had great instincts and explosiveness they could play in any system. Sadly most of our guys are simply short on talent. We don’t have a single linebacker that could even start for any other NFL team. That’s how far we have fallen at the linebacker position..
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 22, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
Kehl has demonstarted the ability to...
…step up and make big plays on ST, but less so on D. In fact, the only positive contribution I ever recall him making on D was the pick against Pittsburgh in ’08 (shortly after which he was benched).
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 22, 2010 7:46 AM EST reply actions
I would like to motion
that we officially change the spelling of the word “demonstrated” to “demonstarted” for its overall phonetic kick-assness.
by BigBlue4Life on Jan 22, 2010 7:56 AM EST up reply actions
Boley/Clark
Ready for me to sound stupid? If Boley is at his best as a pass-defending LB, and Clark at his best against the run, why not almost platoon them like the Giants do with Osi (pass) and Kiwanuka (run) at DE?
In any event, if they’re keeping 5 LBs next year, like most here I’d look to sign an MLB FA that you can be relatively assured is going to succeed, and draft a guy to compete / replace Kehl. In this scenario you’d have a FA MLB for almost every play, Boley and Clark, Sintim and Kehl/draft on the outsides, and Chase just to spell the MLB.
You play to win the game!
Good analysis Ed
Two comments stand out
1. we do not know what we have in Sintim because we do not play him
2. too many square pegs for round holes
Good, well run teams do not wait for players like Clark and McKenzie to fall apart – they make a move proactively. Clark is a good backup if you want to cost a roster spot for a young ST player. No more.
We have one known starter at LB. Boley. Goff at MLB and Sintim are question marks.
Does anyone see a possible return to SLB for Kiwi? Sintim at MLB, Boley and Kiwi at OLB? How’s THAT for a reach?
I see a higher priority for OLB – like 2.
Anything is possible, I guess
I don’t see it as likely. But, it has to be a possibility.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 22, 2010 8:47 AM EST up reply actions
Clark's stats
We give Boley some slack for playing behind the open door that was Osi.
So to be fair we have to say that Clark lined up behind Strahan in 2007 and behind Tuck in 2008 and 2009, So he has played behind our best DL for 3 years.
Given the double teams these guys faced I am surprised that Clark’s stats were not better!
by G Fan in England on Jan 22, 2010 8:29 AM EST reply actions
Boley deserves to be benched!
Boley isn’t that great yeah he is an upgrade from who we had before him but thats it. Giants are known for having Great LineBackers none of our linebackers in the past 15 yrs or so have been spectacular. We need to try a draft some young ones and see what they can do!
Bit of an over reaction
Until he muffed up his knee again, Boley was actually good for the LB corps. he was less effective after the injury unfortunately.
Kawika Mitchell
was there in 07 — Clark replaced him after we let him walk. But you are right about playing behind a solid run stopping DE — How would things look if Clark played behind Osi?
You mean
we had safeties playing after week 2?
by G Fan in England on Jan 22, 2010 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
Not playing but...
They were taking up roster spots, I saw their names on the Yahoo depth chart.
All's Well that Fewell
I need an editor!
Or, new glasses! Fixed.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 22, 2010 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
Sean Lee
Im telling you guys this guy is who we need he is a sleeper!
Reminds me of Brian Urlacher
Most
of our defence slept or certainly sleep walked through the season so I guess he would be a good fit!
Only joking – if he is good the scouts will be aware of him
by G Fan in England on Jan 22, 2010 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
Young LB's
I think we should go all out young this season with our LB’s. If we can’t get McClain we should get Spikes, Lee in the 2nd or 3rd round and play Sintim.
I think they should have played sintim even more last season but w.e. we need to go young now.
Sintim
Yes, he needs to play in 2010. But, remember, this is a guy who said in mid-season he still did not even know where to line up. If he doesn’t know where to line up, or what to do once the ball is snapped, how can he be on the field?
by Ed Valentine on Jan 22, 2010 8:52 AM EST up reply actions
and since he just wanted to fit in with everyone else...
He was injured….
You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there- Yogi
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 22, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
Ed I'm hoping Sintim pulls a Manningham in 2010
out of placed, injured, and confused as a rookie but makes huge strides in his second season and becomes a big part of the D. If he could do that it would be a big step in the right direction.
Ed, your LB analysis has me wondering
if we should switch to a 3-4.? This the first time that I’ve given that idea half a chance in my head. The three guys you want to keep all have 3-4 experience, although Boley was a failure in Atlanta. Still need the NT. How about the inside guys? As you say, Sintim is a possibility there.
Oh, boy
I have said before, anything that works. We don’t have the linemen for a 3-4 at present. And Fewell is a 4-3 guy.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 22, 2010 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
Weren't you the guy who posted that a defensive coach
ought to be able to coach either scheme? ….I sense that you are slowly coming around (gasp!) to the notion of the defense I will not name…. ha ha. I knew I got to you when I asked you recently how you did not long for the kind of defense the Jets showed against the Chargers.
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 22, 2010 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
the previous post was meant for Ed, George.
But I have noticed a shift in your feelings about the defensive alignment that will not be named….LOL
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 23, 2010 5:52 AM EST up reply actions
BORING!
Whenever i look at the Giants Defense, I see nothing Spectacular even the Jets have more play makers on defense than us and they did all of that within 2 yrs.
Kenny Philips, Thomas and Justin Tuck are the only ones that makes plays.
Corey Webster drops every single ball lol no wonder he isn’t a WR.
LInebacker has not been a priority in Giant drafts
The Giants have not made Linebacker a drafting priority for the since George Young left and they are paying for it now. They seem to draft a receiver or defensive lineman in the first round every year (with mixed results). The last Linebackers the Giants drafted in the first round was Carl Banks. Before Stintim the last linebacker drafted in the 2nd round was Pepper Johnson. Wilkinson was the last linebacker drafted in the 3rd round. The last young athletic play-making linebacker was Armstead; the Giant lucked out with a late round pick. The Giants really have not had great linebackers since they switched to the 4-3. Since going to the 4-3, the Giant Linebacker have been middle to late draft pick or free agent pick ups.
The Giants need impact players at Linebacker, Safety and DT. However, they really need to start developing young athletic linebackers that fit their system.
Gotta cut Clark
Sintim will put up the same numbers in the same spot against the run… but he’s younger and may be better against the pass, who knows??? can’t be worse. Give Clark the boot and make room for the youngster
I agree it’s not the highest priority. Fewell is supposed to be a great teacher and Sintim and Boley both have talent and athletcism. Hopefully he can help improve their play. I think upgrades at MLB, S, and DT are a must. If we do that I think our defense will be GREATLY improved.
1st post
Clark – He definitely makes plays, but he also whiffs a bunch. My take, he is aggressive to the ball, but too many times the RB gets past him.
Kehl – A late rounder, many take 3 years to develop, we were spoiled by Boss and others. Lets see what he has this year before we dump him.
Boley – He played great in the one game he looked near healthy. But I agree with Osi comment, could it also be the scheme??
Sintim – How many guys taken between him and Beatty would you swap him for?? Its not like Cushing or Matthews were on the board. But he is a big, fast athletic player who is aggressive. He has a shot, most guys from UVA are pretty smart, I give him a good chance to start and play well.
maybe
we could’ve traded our 2 2nds last year for maualuga!
imagine how much better our D would’ve been with him in there
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 22, 2010 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
Some time in October
those bashing Osi may wish they had not
He is an ass but he is an edge rusher with only a few peers in the NFL. He is top 6-8.
Fewell may bring out the best in him. Bad year? yes. Bad person? perhaps Bad player? No
It was evident from the get go,
that him and Sheridan clased.
Osi’s ego never allowed him to come to terms…that him fitting in was better then him bitched and thinking he’s the GOAT.
Osi’s part of the solution…I hope.
You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there- Yogi
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 22, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
I agree on Osi
I don’t think he was fully recovered from his knee injury and I think he was trying to over compensate by selling out so to speak to get to the QB. I think 2010 Osi will be back to double digit sacks and he will be better against the run.,,,although he never was or will be great in that department. But in his defense alot of speed rushers arent very good against the run. Jason Taylor, Dwight Freeney, Trent Cole dont excel at playing the run, they get paid to rush the passer.
disagree on Cole...
he’s actually quite good at everything…even dropping into coverage every now and then…
You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there- Yogi
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 22, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Trent Cole is more like Justin Tuck on steroids
a faster, stronger version of him
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 22, 2010 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Keeping Clark
Great analysis. However, I would not be so quick to dump Clark. He was signed as competition for Wilkinson and as an insurance policy at the position, and he has done what he was signed to do. Imagine what SAM play would have been like without him! Given that , except for Boley, all of our OLBs are question marks, I would resign Clark and challenge the other OLBs to beat him out if they want his job.
I think you are too quick to judge Sintim as a misfit. All of the players talk about how the rookie year is pretty much a blur, but the game slows down for them in the second year. Given that he was hurt part of the time and had to learn a new position, I look forward to seeing what he can do the second time around. Sintim’s rookie year was better than Manningham’s, and look what happened with him.
To me, the real question mark is Kehl. This is his third year, so he should have his position figured out. The criticism of Kehl has not been that he is too slow or can’t cover or doesn’t understand the position; it has been that he is not physical enough. To me, that is a mental issue. If he can’t improve, he should be let go in favor of someone who could develop into a starter.
Wilkinson – I agree keeping him is a waste of a roster spot.
As for the draft, I expect Reese to decide that the issues at MLB and S are too great and too immediate to be solved through the draft. I think he will sign solid, experienced free agents as starters. That will give him the freedom in the draft to bring in players at other positions, such as DT and OLB, and give them time to develop.
Mickey C
CBA and the uncapped year
The uncapped year will mean that mainly older and less desirable players will be available in free agency. The number of cap cuts will be high so you may have a high risk/high reward guys available.
Guys who underperformed, and perhaps are a bit dinged up are the ones that will be floating around. That doesn’t mean a good player won’t be out there, just will be much harder to find.
by giantblue63 on Jan 22, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Suggesting to keep Clark, hmmm
As he is a 10 year vet, i would rather sign a FA. Though there may be slim pickings, it’s the idea of signing someone younger, a younger vet that may bring something better to contribute to Fewells D.
well said Mickey
JR should look hard at FAs for MLB and S.
and Clark is like Damon – a one year contract, cheap base with incentives. That’s it. He SHOULD be no more than a capable backup and the young guys get the nod in a training camp tie.
On LBs and the draft
Giants have had few opportunities to draft impact LBs, and often having just signed a free agent to play the position, it would not have made sense.
Best example of this:
Prior to 2006 draft, the team had signed Pierce (who made pro-bowl after 05 season) and Arrington. So when they grabbed Kiwi instead of DeMeco Ryans it made sense. 4 years later Pierce is old an injured, Arrington is retired and Ryans (and some of the guys drafted in the vicinity) are nice players.
It sort of repeated itself in 2007 when the team took Ross. But you could throw in Wilkinson, who had an impressive rookie year (on specials and then at the end of the season at LB), and then proceeded to become a resident of IR.
MHO – Giants have wisely stopped trying to pursue free agent LBs as more than stop gap solutions. Most teams don’t let a good one go, and few play very well after 30. If Wilkinson had stayed healthy it wouldn’t even be a discussion.
Stop relying on just retread FA linebackers or late draft picks
I would rather have DeMarco Ryans and no Arrington or Kiwi.
More FA linebacker have failed and very few (such has Pierce) have worked out.
By not drafting any Linebacker in the 1st round since the 1980, the Giants have almost guaranteed that they have no game changing linebackers
That just happens to be the Giants way of LB's
I don’t know if it’s moreless relying on retreads, but a stop-gap for a couple few years? Then they move onto the next available LB! This seems to be a habitual practice for at least a decade now. Probably 15 years would be more precise?! They’ve had a couple late rounders that would be considered good/great value, but thats it!
With Sintim and Goff at the very least, there maybe something to work with. New scheme, another year, just trying to find their role type of thing. Only Boley seems likely to be the only starter penciled in for next year.
Perhaps Fewell can bring something out of each?
What about DeOssie??
Has he been relegated to just special teams and long snapping??
I dont remember seeing him in the rotation much this year
I know he can hit and tackle he does well on special teams
You can see a lot just by observing-Yogi Berra
DeOssie
Giants drafted him hoping he would be more than a long-snapper. Nobody drafts a guy in the fourth-round if long-snapping is all they think he is capable of. He has been there three seasons now, and I’m sure if the Giants thought he could be an NFL linebacker he would have gotten a chance by now.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 22, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
I thought the same with a 4th round pick
We had Ryan Kuehl when we drafted him,then he got hurt and I thought Alford took over for a while before DeOssie took over
I just thought he was going to be on the rotation at some point
Well the good news is he is helluva lot better than Trey Junkin
You can see a lot just by observing-Yogi Berra
If McClain isnt available I would take the best available S or DT. I think this is a deep draft for MLB’s, with Mcclain clearly being the best. I really like Micah Johnson, Daryl Washington, Pat Angerer, Sean Lee, and Brandon Spikes. I think they would all provide big upgrades. Assuming of course we dont sign a MLB in FA.
I also like AJ Edds from Iowa. He is a 4-3 SLB. He should be able to step in and contribute right away, at least providing some depth at that position.
Ed, look at LaMarr Woodley
from the Steelers. I think Sintim compares favorably to him when he was at Michigan. They are similarly built, weigh the same and played in 3-4 defenses. By Woodley’s second year in Pittsburgh, he became a force. I would suggest on those passing downs, moving Tuck inside to DT, and have Sintim rush from the strong side, same as Woodley. I believe we would get similar results.
I think
the Giants would have loved to do some of that in 2009. Tuck’s shoulder injury, and Sintim’s hamstring injury, prevented a lot of that from happening, though.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 22, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Remember the Buffalo game in 2007?
Gerris Wilkinson played out of his friggin’ mind that day. And has never done it since. Sigh.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
Not to be a smart ass, and with respect :)
One game does not define a potential career of things to come, let alone greatness with all things considered. Only injuries can define such a thought, and GW has had his share in his career. GW is more consistently injured than he is productive, kind of like Sinorice?! Before it’s all said and done, they’re both probably gone!
Wilkinson replaced MItchell
in theNE game in the last week of the season and played great. He actually started the playoff win vs Tampa and played well. But injuries have been his downfall.
Flush Them All
Keep Sintim, but flush the rest. A crop of rookies and FA’s could do the same thing they do (blow coverages and not tackle). Lets get fresh meat in there and look for a real future. Again the point comes up – if we are keeping Osi, Kiwi and Tuck, where does Sintim end up? We have to clear space and let Sintim sink or swim at LB – OR – trade Osi so that he can be committed as an end.
This whole LB unit is a very big mystery to me
Very hard to determine we have what we hope we have..because we didn’t see enough of them and our DTs are horrible which makes matters worse…
Guys...
Just because Mays is big it doesn’t mean that he can play LB. And on top of that if they were to move him to LB the best place for a S turned LB would be at weakside where we have $25M invested in Boley.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 22, 2010 7:11 PM EST reply actions
Brian Urlacher did the exact same thing.
given that he went to a Dick Jauron led defense…where Fewell grew up in…if they wanna try the same thing…its a perfectly valid idea.
It depends..if they get the same sense that they are dealing with an Urlacher…then why not?
Also..if there’s no CBA…cutting Boley is also a possibility….
You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there- Yogi
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 22, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
Not exactly the same
Urlacher played half LB half S in college. Mays has been a safety for his whole college career. He doesn’t know how to handle a guard thats blocking him on the 2nd level. He doesn
At best we could use him like the Eagles used to with Dawkins. on 3rd down he can play LB and on 1st and 2nd down S. BUT Mays stinks in covering the deep part of the field so he wouldn’t be anywhere near as effective on 1st and 2nd down.
He’s a bit like Spiller – a luxury for a team that doesn’t have any glaring needs
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 22, 2010 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
I only use Urlacher...
cuz he went to similar defense in the NFL. Also similar size.
Thomas Davis, whenever he’s on the field…maybe better comparision for the position switch.
This isn’t the Eagles defense…
The LB’s gotta be fast. If they think he could make the switch he’s an option.
Mays wasn’t just a deep covrage safety..he was a rover. LB in the Tampa 2 is a lot like the rover.
You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 22, 2010 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
Not saying anything about Mays one way or another,
just noting that one of the best LBs in Giants history, Van Pelt, was a CB in college (and winner of the Maxwell trophy.) The Giants didn’t have to get him in the first round either: an all-around athlete, The word had been that he’d opt fot the NBA or MLB.
Also I agree with everyone who says that Sintim was a bad pick
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 22, 2010 9:07 PM EST reply actions
really?
how could anyone in their right mind conclude Sintim is a bad pick already?
You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 22, 2010 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
because he is a 3-4 guy, an undersized DE
and we want him to play a linebacker who is supposed to fly all over the field.
If we draft another MLB this year I’m almost willing to bet that Goff would be a better fit at strong side than him
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 23, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with Free...
Too early to tell. Just because someone played in that defensive scheme I shall not name (ha ha) doesn’t mean anything. Half the players from college end up in entirely different positons than they played in college.
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 23, 2010 5:56 AM EST up reply actions
Brian Orakpo was a DE and did just fine.
Probably cuz he’s a better player…but he also had a competant LB coach in Kirk Ollivadotti (who would’ve be ok as our DC) and also Greg Blache..who’s not horrible…like BS.
That plays a lot.
Also…he was injured for a better part of the beginning of the season. That means he wasn’t getting reps early on. Basically…when you don’t get reps early on…especially those first few live games…it seems to always hurt, espeically someone making a position switch. Canty had trouble it seemed making the switch too…and he’s a vet.
Yes..he’s making a position switch….but its not unheard of for a player to be doing this and become successful.
SLB is not WLB..he’s supposed to be more of a pass rusher..which is what Sintim excells at.
I just don’t understand. The guy was a rookie and was injured. A bad pick……probably a pick like Bomar in round 5 when they really could’ve used someone who can contribute.
You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 23, 2010 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
Orakpo made his mark this year by lining up at DE on 3rd down. That’s where he got his sacks
As an LB he wasn’t anything special
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 23, 2010 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
Also I think that we should keep Wilkinson
Yes, hes battled injuries for his entire career BUT he has talent and athleticism unmatched to what we have at the linebacker position.
Even if he does get hurt again we need to bring him back to training camp at the very least
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 23, 2010 7:36 AM EST reply actions
dump Osi
he only fares against the slower left offensive tackles in the league as a pass rusher, and as a run stopper… let’s not go there… Boley is not that tough and playing behind Osi does not make him any better.

by 






















