New York Giants position breakdowns: Fullback
by Ed Valentine on Jan 17, 2010 8:23 AM EST
in News
57 comments
As we continue our position-by-position breakdown for the New York Giants, today's post will be a short one. Maybe not sweet, but short.
Today we look at fullback. Which means we look at just one player -- Madison Hedgecock.
I know some of you guys go crazy every time Eli Manning throws the ball in Hedgecock's direction. And I know it's pretty much 50-50 whether or not the big fullback will catch the ball when it comes his way. But, this discussion is not about Hedgecock's hands. Be realistic, the Giants don't design plays to give him the ball. The only time it goes in that direction is when Eli has nowhere else to throw it, or he is absolutely uncovered. So, while his drops are annoying pass-catching is really an inconsequential part of Hedgcock's job.
What he is really on the field for is to clear a path for Brandon Jacobs and Ahmad Bradshaw as a blocker. So, what we really need to discuss is how good Hedgecock is at that very singular, very narrowly-defined job.
Really, it is difficult to judge the five-year veteran off his 2009 season. He was, quite obviously, not the path-clearing force the Giants had come to expect. That, of course, had to be part of the reason for Brandon Jacobs' struggles. We know now, though, that Hedgecock was hiding a torn labrum that limited his strength and effectiveness in being able to move linemen and linebackers.
Purely as a blocker, Pro Football Focus graded Hedgecock a +2.1 this past season, 10th in the league. That isn't terrible, but it is a far cry from 2007 when Hedgecock made his reputation by posting a +10.6 as a blocker, second in the league among fullbacks. In 2008, Hedgecock was a mediocre -0.2 as blocker despite the fact that the Giants had two 1,000-yard rushers.
To get the Giants running game back in gear in 2010, the Giants need Hedgecock to return to at least a semblance of his 2007 form.
To do that he will, of course, need to be healthier than he was in 2009. Perhaps, also, a little competition will be good for him.
The best season of his career was 2007, when he was released by St. Louis after one game and claimed by the Giants. You have to suspect that Hedgecock spent much of 2007 highly motivated to prove the Rams wrong.
The past two seasons, however, Hedgecock has been completely unchallenged for his role with the Giants. The 2010 season might be different. The Giants have already signed 6-foot, 258-pound fullback Jerome Johnson to provide a little competition.
It boils down to this. To run the ball you have to be able to create holes. Helping to do that is Hedgeock's only real job. In 2010 he needs to prove that he can still do it.
Draft/Free Agency Priority: 5
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I'm giving Hedgecock a pass after learning about his injury..
I don’t know much about Johnson, but it is good to have to compete and earn the job..If I was Hedgecock, I be playing catch everyday for 6 hours from now ’til camp opens..He needs to soften those hands up..Eli needs a guy at fullback that he can trust to catch the ball when needed…
Hands
I think a big part of Hedgeock’s problem last year catching the ball was the shoulder. Had to be very uncomfortable to move that arm around, plus he was wearing a harness.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 17, 2010 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
He's never been able to catch
It wasn’t just this past year. And also, the Giants do have a designed FB Flat Pass that they throw to him. It’s not a check down and he is Eli’s primary target on the play. I HATE that play.
A pass?
Please dont give him a pass
I would prefer an excuse for his play because of the injury
I just cant handle pass and Hedgecock in the same sentence
It seems we had far too many guys playing with injuries that started in camp
maybe we wont beat ouselves in camp this year
You can see a lot just by observing-Yogi Berra
Yeah we sure did suffer from the injury Gremlin this season
And many of them were there before the camp opened..We didn’t have one single game where everybody was healthy..from Eli on down..It is a wonder we didn’t just put a damn sign out front: “Closed due to renovation”
Fullbacks in decline
It seems to me that teams are using fullbacks less. They are going with single back formations with two tight ends. The tight ends can block or pass and are often bigger than the traditional fullbacks.
At the goal line , teams have been putting an offensive tackle in the back field instead of a fullback. I recall the Giants using an additional receiver-eligible tackle near the goal line. However, it seems like most tackles are less likely to hold on to a pass than Hedgecock.
The game is evolving into a pass-fest (note success of most of the remaining playoff QBs). The old three yards and a cloud of dust is fading away, just like the Giants’ D.
Don't believe it.
The Jets just ran roughshod over the Chargers.
There was no pass fest for the Bolts.
As for defense, did you see how the 3-4 Jets defense absolutely throttled Rivers? Those outside blitzes caused all kinds of missed blocking assignments.
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 18, 2010 4:47 AM EST up reply actions
LOL!
of course.
…yet, what about the 4-3 that manhandled the Cowpokes? Probably a bit more relevant…
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 18, 2010 7:55 AM EST up reply actions
I dunno on Hedge...
I’d love to say get a more versatile FB as it seems the Giants and the league go to passing love fest.
…but really, that’s 2009. The Giants were the best offense in the NFL in 2008…and we know they passed as basically their THIRD option…
I wouldn’t mind the return to the power run game. I also wouldn’t mind finding a back with the ability to score from anywhere..like Spiller.
I think Hedge has a spot on the roster. It seemed they were phasing him out this year, but his injury says that’s not the case.
I do like the competition for him tho.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
Yes I think we are going to be a more pass team than in the past..
With the receivers we have that isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but I would still like to see the crushing running game make a comeback..and Spillers is certainly my favorite pick because of his ability to do so many positive things across the board, unfortunately I never got a guy I ever wanted on the team..so I’m afraid I’ll still be batting .000 this year..But I still would like to see balance on offense between run and pass…and altough scarlet is right about the Fullback position being back-burnered I think a good solid fullback is a good player to have.
Well I think the consensus with the 15 th pick that BBV selects
Rolando McClain…but he’s likely going to be drafted before we pick. And if 14 teams pass on Spiller we would be crazy to pass on him. He’s top 5 talent and an immediate impact on offense(much like Harvin).
If Spiller falls to us...
there’s a team out there that needs him more and we trade down in the 1st and pick up another pick in the 2nd or 3rd
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 18, 2010 8:10 AM EST up reply actions
we did a Mock draft on MTD yesterday....
I actually had Spiller or Earl Thomas staring at me.
….I took Earl Thomas.
….Tho, I did trade up in the 2nd round to the Lions spot.
Dare I say….is there a player who is much like Spiller….yet, probably better?
Hmmmmm,…….
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 18, 2010 8:26 AM EST up reply actions
Not much to discuss
Hopefully Hedgecock gets healthy and/or the other guy is good.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Next !!
Only thought on the FB position is this – lose that 1-2 YD drag pattern to the FB from the play book. You know, the one where he is going east-west as he catches it, and anyone can bring him down immediately that way before he turns it up field. It’s a bad angle for the QB to throw and the FB to catch.
Since this position's pretty cut and dry..I'll throw this out there again...
what about Beckum?
He’s got the strength and the size to be a good blocker.
Since they really don’t even use Hedge all that much, converting Becks to a full time FB shouldn’t mean too much.
And of course, the main benefit is getting him out there on the field and giving Eli a nice safety valve.
You can teach blocking and he’d be running and laying the boom instead of at the point of attack.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
Well Free I'm actually thinking about that..at first I thought it would not be a good idea..
But now I’m leaning that way..He can block..He’s quick..good hands obviously, so it would be interesting to see them give him a shot at fullback..I quite frankly can’t think of any other way to use him effectively and get him in the offense as a positive force…plus they could put him in motion..but the key would be not to telegraph run vs. pass..If they used him as a fullback they would need to be careful about that..but I don’t think this is a bad idea. They need to exploit his talent somehow.
Beckum doesn't have the body to block
He’s never been a blocker in his entire life….Just because he is strong doesn’t mean that he can block LB’s. His frame is too small
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 17, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
He's 6"3 240bls.
Some FB;s are much smaller then that.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 17, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Mclaren?
You don’t know what your talking about. The best blockers are short, because they have a lower center to the ground. And blocking at fullback isn’t like blocking on the O-Line. In Pass blocking all you have to do is get in the defenders way and in Run blocking he is going to have a running start to devour the defenders.
its not about height
its about his frame – its too small, his shoulders are too tight
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 17, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
he's got small shoulder pads....
There’s plenty of FB’s over the years who’ve been pass catchers and average blockers who are plenty smaller then Beckum.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 17, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
Fullbacks
I would love for the Giants to bring in a Leonard Weaver or La’Ron McLain (Ravens) type. A big bruiser that can do a little of everything. Many of the greatest teams ever had fullbacks that were also weapons (Csonka, Franco Harris, Moose Johnston, even good ole’ Maurice Carthon). I don’t see Beckum having that toughness and/or insanity it takes to blast an opposing lb off his feet at the goal line…
agree 100%
and that’s probably the reason Beckum is a pipe dream at FB. Really my idea was just getting him out on the field and another weapon for Eli to work with.
…so…here’s a better one.
What about Brandon Jacobs?
Bradshaw (and/or if we’re lucky…CJ Spiller) as the RB. Jake as the FB?
Could it be as simple as that? Why the hell has this NEVER been a look they’ve put out there?
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 17, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
That would be an interesting scenario..But we'd have to see if the big guy wants to hit
People anymore..he has wandered away from his pulverizing play..and a good/great fullback..There is something about their eyes..they are crazy looking eyeballs..both eyes are really too close to their nose..So close that can only pick out one guy to hit..They are like MLBs..Nuts..
maybe this is just the sort of thing for Jacobs to regain that?
Just throw him in there at FB for a couple plays…not all the time, just to change up.
Maybe HIM laying the boom without the ball instead of teams hitting him, will help him get a little pissed?
While I’m not too surprised something as “creative” (tho it seems like a simple idea…) as this has slipped Gilbride;s mind…I mean, why not?
Jacobs and Bradshaw are weapons back there…why not get em on the field?
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 17, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Good point..No ball..just lower the boom on people..then give him the ball..
That actually could help him get lower..We were always taught to aim for and hit the belt buckle, that means getting low and it is also going to tell to where guys are going..belt buckles don’t lie. If they tried that with BJ..maybe just maybe it would carry over to his runs..He also wouldn’t get hurt as much as he has been. Watching that belt buckle is a key fundamental ingredient to playing good football.
Don't Agree
Madison Hedgecock (nor was Jim Finn) Isn’t that type of blocker but he still get the job done. It shouldn’t take Beckum too long to learn how to block like a fullback considering it isn’t that hard of a job once you learn your responsibilities on each play. And Beckum would be the fastest Full Back in the League he puts on some more weight he could probably be a threat in the running game as well. And to say the Giants view him more as a receiving tight-end, which means he does have hands.
Beckum ... for the last time
I am going to weigh in on this ‘Beckum to fullback’ foolishness one last time. You don’t take a guy whose weakness is blocking and turn him into a fullback. That’s pure silliness. It isn’t happening, and I’m not spending any more time debating it.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 17, 2010 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Ed, I see your point but....
What’s your uptake on WHY they drafted Beckum in the first place. He’s a talent, but he’s kind of in the same mold as Daniel Murphy with the Mets in baseball. He can do some things, but not others, has some talent, but not across the board, and when it comes down to it, there’s really no natural position for him, nor anyplace that he appears to be a more complete option than someone else readily onhand would be. I have nothing against Beckum, but I understand frustration with having him sit all the time. Was this just a wasted draft pick, or is there, in your opinion, some natural opening for him that I’m missing?
They drafted him as an H-Back
Really to move around, motion him, get some mismatches with LBs. Problem is he was a rookie, he missed a lot of early time with injuries, then made some mistakes when he got on the field. Give it time, he could develop into a nice weapon eventually. Particularly in the red zone. Reese might have gone overboard drafting Beckum and Barden, but only time will tell.
You are right that there isn’t a ‘natural’ position for him. But if he shows playmaking ability he will force KG and Coughlin to find snaps for him.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 17, 2010 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks....
I hope it’ll work out, and thanks for the courtesy of the reply.
it's sort of like
Osi for OLB!
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 18, 2010 8:12 AM EST up reply actions
hedgecock reminds me of a first baseman whos nickname was dr. strange glove. like the giant fullback, he couldn’t catch anythihg either.
I used to call him "John McCain,"
..because he looks like McCain trying to raise his arms when he tries to catch a pass. Both make you wince in pain. At least McCain has an excuse.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
When I play madden
I have the two RB set with Jacobs and Bradshaw all the time. I moved my TE Beckham to FB often and throw to him every other play. It works! Now if only Gilbride would return my phone calls.
true but take it a step further
For full maddenizing of the G-men. 99% of pass plays would be from big formation TE post…it never fails
j/k pataroons
by the caveman on Jan 17, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Jacobs swallows pride
Brandon would be a hell of a fullback on 2nd down. Run AB on first down with hedgecock, then bring in Brandon let him open up holes. Third and short . Brandon will get it after blocking 4 a down. Run 2 set up the pass
All I know is the entire NFC East is a total embarassment..I never witnessed such pathetic
Football from our division..inexcusible.
by Bobbiblue on Jan 18, 2010 6:04 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Hedgecock and the 2yd Out
I hope we keep him so we can keep throwing those 2yd outs to him
NOT
Diehl
For everyone crapping on Diehl, how do you explain that he is now in the ProBowl……
reputation.
He was a reserve last year.
…the Diehl crapping is 100% deserved, so its reasons like this that saying “so and so made the Pro Bowl” is completely irrelevant.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 18, 2010 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
Not Buying It
So Diehl made it based on “reputation”? No way.
Its funny, so many people are just relentlessly bashing our OL. And yes, they did underperform this year based on what they did the previous year. BUT – if you look at the running and passing statistics – if you look at the offenses production – if you look at how pathetic our RB"s were this year, playing hurt and gimpy. I don’t see how you can say they are terrible.
The running backs this year MADE the OL look bad, a real back would have had a lot of yards this year.
Those clamoring to move Diehl inside, Draft OT’s, pull Seubert and such are misguided. Diehl doesn’t “suck” and make the ProBowl – I would not grade him more than average – BUT – he protects Eli’s blind side and does NOT get hurt, he is very durable. This counts for alot in my opinion. This lines success has been based on them being intact, and they should remain intact as long as everyone is completely healthy.
Eli got hit and sacked
and was running for his life more then he’s EVER been in his career.
In a season where he had a WR, #12, who’s ability to get open and quickness are the best by far anyone’s been for Eli in his career.
I agree 100% that the RB’s were injured and stunk…but the OL…to have now THREE PRO BOWLERS…is an absolute joke.
Eli doesn’t get hurt cuz he’s a tough bastard. The hits I’ve seen Manning take…he has to be.
Deihl took more then a few steps back this year, maybe it was cuz of Seubert doing the same, but Diehl definitely wasn’t his best.
I still don’t think he’s bad enough to where he can’t be a very good to possibly even elite LT…..but to say he’s a 2009 Pro Bowler based on performance is a joke.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 18, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Sure Eli got hit more....
Co-incidently, this year, our defense put us in a huge holes more times than I have ever seen before.
The two are related more than you are giving credit for. If any team is FORCED to throw and become one-dimensional, its not going to be a surprise that your QB is going to see more pressure and more hits.
One more OL comment. If anyone recalls, one of Tiki’s signature plays, was the cutback where the OL flow blocks one way, Tiki takes the ball and then immediately cuts in back against the grain. He had so many huge runs on that type of play. Well, let me tell you, this line STILL blocks that play the same – I must have seen it twenty times this year – the difference is, instead of Tiki taking it hard and seamlessly cutting it back for big yards – Bradshaw takes the handoff, comes to a dead stop, bunnyhops left, then trys to run and is swallowed up. Jacobs lateral movement is not good enough make that play in the first place – but now add his Tyrone Wheatley stutters and its over. Give most decent backs in that league that same blocking and watch the yards pile up.
Have faith, from what I see, with Gearhardt projected as the #7th rated RB for reference, there will be somebody good for us available if they think we can overlook the D. If we don’t draft one, we need to some decent FA back that can get it done or we are going to have problems.
I don't like Gerhart....
He’s a power back, but unlike someone like Shonn Greene on the Jets, he doesn’t run with a low pad level…kinda like Jacobs.
I’d much rather find a speed back. Not even Bradshaw speed..faster.
THis is a deep defensive draft. Even if they don’t get Spiller in round 1, which may or may not be a good idea…I’d love to get Jahvid Best in round 2.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 18, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Diehl
It has nothing to do with 2009. It’s a past reputation vote, that’s all.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 18, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Toby Gerhart.
If he falls to us in the third? (Shut up. Don’t tell me it couldn’t happen.) We should think long and hard about it. I know he’s not really a FB, but he could do it while he learns. Play specials. Get a few carries of his own. Catch passes. He’s the kind of kid who can change everything for the better.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
2009 compared to 2008 Position Draft/Free Agency Priority
JMO for 2009
2010vs2009
WR- 5vs1
TE- 4-5vs4-5
OL- 3vs5
RB- 3vs5
FB- 5vs5
QB- 5vs5
DT- 1vs2-3
DE- 3-4vs5
MLB-1vs3
CB- 3vs5
S- 1vs4
ST- 5vs5
WOW, thats an overall difference of 10 points….
Guys and Girls, sorry to say there’s is a sh!@#$ load of work to be done here. JR has got his hands FULL.
Wish we could do the coaching staff next in the same format, just the high impact coaching positions, would be interesting to compare those as well?
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